New Ninja not running too good

[Ripperjon]

Hi all,

Need a bit of help if possible.

My new Ninja 250r seems to be running a bit strange when i start her up.

It doesn't sound like it's idling regularly like it used to and the rpms bounce around a bit while she's warming up.

Yesterday, it spluttered and stalled completely when i tried to move off. I'd warmed the engine for a few minutes and had gradually eased off the choke and all was fine until i applied a bit of throttle. Then it died completely.

Twice i tried getting her idling properly but when i moved off it would either stall straight away or the rpms would drop as i gave throttle and there was a big delay in the power kicking in. ( Which can be a bit hair-raising when you're pulling out onto a main road)

I've noticed it happening when i leave work. But unusually, it would start sweet and run fine for a few minutes until i reached the end of a long driveway, where i pull up before joining the highway. Then the idle would be spluttery and the delayed power thing would happen when i try to accelerate up to cruising. (not thrashing it, just normal cruising)

A friend suggested not using the choke, which i have been doing always when the engine is cold but that hasn't solved the problem.

It was mostly fine today (apart from an irregular idle). But the problem seems to be intermittent.

I don't get why it was sweet last week and now it's gone weird.

I've read other threads about dirty carbs but am hoping that it's not that as the bike is a bit over 2 weeks old and the nearest kawasaki garage is in Invercargill.

Could i have done something while riding that could've got a spark plug dirty?

I've checked my airfilter and there was a dirty section about 1" square but it was pristine otherwise. I'm gonna give it a clean anyway.
I did notice that there is a bit of oil in the clear drain plug thing at the bottom of the airbox that the manual says to drain out if present. Only problem is the fucking thing seems to be virtually inacessible. I reckon i could get it off but don't know if i can get it back on, so i've left it alone.

Anyway, if anyone has any ideas i'm super-grateful...

[Gubb]

Get it checked out under Warranty.

[TimeOut]

Hi

It could be bad fuel, we got some at a Shell on the west side of Lake Taupo last month.
Try a top up at a different station, are you using the right fuel?

[TimeOut]

Hi again

Have you done the first service yet? If not it won't hurt for it to be done early and they can check it out then.

[Dino]

Hi

If you have no luck yourself changing fuel etc, and the dealership is too far away, you could always give the dealership a call as they may be able to give you some guidance over the phone or have a garage they could recommend in Queenstown.

Hope you work it out.

.

[Ripperjon]

Hmmm, come to think of it, i filled up with 98 last time.
I've put a bit of 98 in before but i think it was just topping up. This time it was a whole tank pretty much.
I'm off to work in 10 minutes and i need to fill her up a bit so i'll put in 95 and try that.
I noticed on another thread it recommends 98 for high compression engines and especially v-twins so thought it might be right for my bike.
Anyway, i'll give it a go and let you know the outcome.
If it works, i'll put a post on the fuel thread too to let people know that 98 might be no good for the 250r.

[vifferman]

98 octane petrol can be a bit harder to start the engine on than lower octane petrol, so it may well be problematic for you when the engine's cold. (I usually run the VFR on 98, but switch to 91 in the winter).


I've checked my airfilter and there was a dirty section about 1" square but it was pristine otherwise. I'm gonna give it a clean anyway.
I did notice that there is a bit of oil in the clear drain plug thing at the bottom of the airbox that the manual says to drain out if present.
That dirty section is from the crankcase breather: oily fumes get sucked into the airbox and burnt. This is quite normal, but if there is lots of oil then you should have it checked out, as this would only happen if the gearbox was overfilled or there is a problem with the engine. In your case, I'd say don't worry about it.

[jim.cox]

A motor needs three things to run: Fuel, Air & Spark

Check the basics first

Sounds like you've done a good job on the air filter

Have you pulled a plug yet? what does it look like? Have you tested for a good "fat" spark?

Fuel is very likely to be the problem - most of the stuff they sell here is pretty crappy and worse when its a bit old. Could water contamination be a possibility? Try draining the tank completely and filling with fresh.

Good luck

[crazybigal]

try and start it without the choke, my wifes zzr250 does the same thing, only need the choke on a cold morning.

[Ripperjon]

Filled her up with 91 today. Had the same problem after work, but the tank wasn't completely dry so not a fair test i suppose.
Went for a good (few) ride(s) and the tank is almost drained.
Will run it right down and refill on 91 or 95.
I also turned up the idle a little bit but won't know if that has helped til the morning.
Weather looks awry tomorrow so will have a look at the spark plugs too.

Thanks for the advice. Will keep you posted.

[jim.cox]

If it IS water contamination, you should be aware that fuel floats on the water.

So anything remaining at the bottom of the tank is the worst stuff. You need to empty the tank completely to get rid of it. Just adding fresh fuel will generally not fix the problem

You can run the tank dry with the petcock on reserve, or just pull the tap off and drain it that way.

A cup of meths in the fuel may help absorb any water if only minor contamination is suspected.

You might want to talk to some of those jump-pilots you hang out with about water and fuel. Its one of the things pilots are very careful about.

PS: don't forget to drain the carb also...

[Ripperjon]

It seemed to be running ok today. Haven't put any more fuel in yet.

Will see how she goes tomorrow and drain the tank if she's not running right again.

If she's all good, it may have just been a case of turning up the idle. Hopefully so.

Didn't think of the fuel contamination. No water has gotten in there from my doing but maybe if the fuel was contaminated at the pump.

P.S. Done a bit of flying myself and drained water out o the wings a few times, so i should've thought of that!

Come to think of it, if i just drain a little the water should show up.

Is it possible to part drain the tank?

[homer]

if your worried about water in the tank at all , put about half a litre meths in the tank and slosh it about a bit , will disperse any moisture

[jim.cox]

if your worried about water in the tank at all , put about half a litre meths in the tank and slosh it about a bit , will disperse any moisture

Be careful with that one - the seals on a lot of the fuel system, petcocks, carbs etc dont like meths - it farks them.

Best done in small amounts

[homer]

Be careful with that one - the seals on a lot of the fuel system, petcocks, carbs etc dont like meths - it farks them.

Best done in small amounts

I will note that
how much do you think about 200ml in a 20 lit tank
would be ok ?

[jim.cox]

I will note that
how much do you think about 200ml in a 20 lit tank
would be ok ?

The figure I have heard is about a cup per tank for a bike, so that should be ok.

[homer]

The figure I have heard is about a cup per tank for a bike, so that should be ok.

ok sweet thanks heaps

[Ripperjon]

Well, it seemed to be ok again today. I haven't drained the tank but it did get run right down to the point where i wasn't sure i'd make it to the petrol station before refilling with 95.

I noticed in my owner's manual it says you can use "hotter" spark plugs for better low idle performance and easier winter starting but reduced high speed performance, so maybe what i experienced is just normal and raising the idle (to about 1500) might have sorted it.

[TimeOut]

Glad to here it's going good.
Be careful with hotter plugs unless your a nanna rider.
Hope to catch you around sometime.

[Ripperjon]

I think the problem might've been with my use of the choke. I was warming up the bike with choke and easing it off before moving away. I've cut down the time i allow the bike to warm up and leave the choke half on until i've ridden maybe half a k.

Seems to be fine now.

Cheers for the advice again guys and sorry to leave the thread hanging while i was figuring out what was going on.

TimeOut: did i see you near the airport in Queenstown today. Looked like the bike in your avatar (but i'm colourblind so might've been different colour).

[Dino]

Glad you are getting it sorted, it can take a little while to sort out what choke a new bike likes, once it is run in it shouldn't be as touchy.

RE: Timeout - it wouldn't surprise me if he was in Queenstown today, man he does some miles on that thing of his. :niceone: In the last six months I have seen him as far south as Queenstown and as far north as the Coromandel!!!

.

[TimeOut]

TimeOut: did i see you near the airport in Queenstown today. Looked like the bike in your avatar (but i'm colourblind so might've been different colour).[/QUOTE]

Na wasn't me gave the bike a day off, next time I'm heading your way will PM to see what your up to maybe the 2nd of May.
Good to hear your getting used to your bike they're all different especially at start and warm up.

[Capinure]

i'd say check the plugs. they usually tell you the problem/

[DUCATI*HARD]

its because its green:doctor:

[skidMark]

Meh fukit.

By tinkering and checking plugs etc yourself you may have affected your warrenty.

[TimeOut]

Meh fukit.

By tinkering and checking plugs etc yourself you may have affected your warrenty.

Shouldn't affect warranty, apart from the first service I'm doing my own services and the dealer is happy.

[Grub]

I've cut down the time i allow the bike to warm up and leave the choke half on until i've ridden maybe half a k..

Hmmm, I would have thought that made it worse. Usual procedure is to use choke (only if necessary) and then get the choke off as soon as it will run without it. Then let it idle and warm up that way. The excessive choke may wet or gum up the plugs.

The one thing you haven't answered ... and is the first thing you should have done ... was the question of have you taled to the dealer you bought it from? I'm assuming the bike is new and under warranty, you should not be messing with it. Us KBers can hazard a guess, the dealer on the other hand knows for sure.

[Ripperjon]

Hey all,

well, been having same trouble again so went down to Invercargill the other day but obviously after a big ride i couldn't show them exactly how it runs when cold.

I let it cool down for a few hours and it was a little rough on startup but not like it is on cold mornings.

Anyhow, they reckoned it's (probably) fine and i should just let it warm up for longer before riding.

So, no real answer.:(

[TimeOut]

Hey all,

well, been having same trouble again so went down to Invercargill the other day but obviously after a big ride i couldn't show them exactly how it runs when cold.

I let it cool down for a few hours and it was a little rough on startup but not like it is on cold mornings.

Anyhow, they reckoned it's (probably) fine and i should just let it warm up for longer before riding.

So, no real answer.:(

I know the Kawa dealer in Oamaru quite well I could queary him if you like.

[Ripperjon]

That'd be awesome if you don't mind.:niceone:

[Biggles08]

That'd be awesome if you don't mind.:niceone:

Hi Mate,

Have you considered carb icing? I had a ZX9R that misbehaved terribly in the cold damp air and sounded like a v-twin as opposed to a 4 cyl bike. It may be forming ice on the carb butterflies and causing some issues. Probably not but thought I would throw in my 2c as well.

Realistically though, I would be very very firm with the guys you bought it off cause quite frankly the service you have had regarding the problem thus far sounds average to say the least...its a fucking brand new bike??? Its their problem ...not yours!

[CookMySock]

The proper way to use a choke, is to go full-choke first, crack the throttle, and start it, wait 2-3 seconds to the revs to build and stablise, and then slowly slowly back the choke off until you get maximum rpm, then back it off ever so slightly more until the revs JUST begin to drop, then leave it there to warm up. You CAN leave the choke at this setting and ride off slowly, but within 1km or less it should be fully off. Never leave it running at full choke - you will foul the engine.

An extended warm up isn't really necessary, unless it makes you feel better doing it.

Never power up hard under full choke.

DB

[Disco Dan]

Sounds like a vent is blocked to me, if you open the filler cap then close it again does it run ok again?

(did not read the middle pages, just first and last lol)

[Sollyboy]

Shouldn't affect warranty, apart from the first service I'm doing my own services and the dealer is happy.

Yeah theyll be happy right up to the point where you make a claim, dont fall for that bullshit

[Ripperjon]

The proper way to use a choke, is to go full-choke first, crack the throttle, and start it, wait 2-3 seconds to the revs to build and stablise, and then slowly slowly back the choke off until you get maximum rpm, then back it off ever so slightly more until the revs JUST begin to drop, then leave it there to warm up. You CAN leave the choke at this setting and ride off slowly, but within 1km or less it should be fully off. Never leave it running at full choke - you will foul the engine.

An extended warm up isn't really necessary, unless it makes you feel better doing it.
DB

Yeah, this is what i've been doing, the revs will build as it warms, i back off the choke keeping it under but near 2500rpm (as it recommends in the manual), but it takes nearly 10 minutes before i can take the choke fully off without it spluttering, and occasionally stalling entirely.

I've tried riding with the choke partially on but i still get the delayed or even negated response from the throttle which is a bit gnarly pulling out onto the main road. So, for me, at the moment, the extended warmup is a bit of a necessity.

I don't think carb icing is the problem as it happens after work too when the bike is out in the sun. The engine gets cold but not enough to get icey carbs.

regarding what DiscoDan said about a blocked vent and opening the filler cap. How does that work?


P.S. Sorry, i don't know how to put multiple quotes in the post

[Grub]

The engine gets cold but not enough to get icey carbs.

Interesting phenominon Carb Icing and often mis-understood. It doesn't have to be "freezing" to get it ...

" ... Also carb ice is NOT a problem if the air is cold enough. It is
usually only a problem from a few degrees below freezing up to about
the mid 60's fahrenheit. Say from -5 to 15 Celsius.

There is a strong temperature drop in the carburetor throat. While there may be a drop of a degree or two in temperature due to the acceleration and resulting drop in pressure going through the venturi, what really causes the temperature to fall is the fuel coming in through the carburetor.

It requires a LOT of heat to vaporize all of that fuel. That heat primarily comes from the air passing through the carburetor. The heat of vaporization will typically drop the temperature of the incoming air by ten to fifteen degrees celsius. This temperature drop, caused when the gasoline evaporates, condenses out the water vapor in the incoming air.

If the temperature has been dropped below zero celsius, this condensation will immediately freeze. It will then SNOW inside your carburetor. Just like a snow drift will form behind a snow fence, this snow will build up on the back of the throttle plate. That is why carb ice is most likely when the throttle is NOT fully open. When it is open, the snow just goes on into the cylinder and cools the mixture a little, allowing you to charge the cylinders with a denser mixture ... "

[Ripperjon]

So i should start her up with the throttle open at first?

[RidingHard]

Realistically though, I would be very very firm with the guys you bought it off cause quite frankly the service you have had regarding the problem thus far sounds average to say the least...its a fucking brand new bike??? Its their problem ...not yours!

Hes right mate, you shouldnt have to deal with issues on a fresh bike! :nono: Take it back to the dealer you bought it from and stick your guns. Failing that, contact Kawasaki NZ. Good luck

[TimeOut]

Yeah theyll be happy right up to the point where you make a claim, dont fall for that bullshit

Na the last two TRX Hondas had warranty claims the last one the 500 major claims (two gearbox rebuilds, rings + others) the previous one two sets of rings.

Never once was it mentioned that I was doing my own servicing. Just keep records