250s' value decrease

[DMCD]

With these new purposed law changes for learner and restricted licensing i have a feeling standard price for 250's will normalize somewhat.

I current ride a Bandit which i purchased for $5,500 with 9k on the clock and was expecting to on sell that in 2 years for about 4.5 - 5k i wonder if i will get anything close to that now?

On the bright side i can sell it soon and upgrade to a VT600 Shadow, won't that look styley with a big yellow L plate slapped on the back. :2thumbsup

[JimO]

With these new purposed law changes for learner and restricted licensing i have a feeling standard price for 250's will normalize somewhat.

I current ride a Bandit which i purchased for $5,500 with 9k on the clock and was expecting to on sell that in 2 years for about 4.5 - 5k i wonder if i will get anything close to that now?

On the bright side i can sell it soon and upgrade to a VT600 Shadow, won't that look styley with a big yellow L plate slapped on the back. :2thumbsup

i will take it off ya for $1500

[James Deuce]

On the bright side i can sell it soon and upgrade to a VT600 Shadow, won't that look styley with a big yellow L plate slapped on the back. :2thumbsup

The Bandit 250 has more get up and go than a 600 Shadow.

[DMCD]

i will take it off ya for $1500

Deal!
:p JKS

[EJK]

FXR will then have no value :(

[DMCD]

The Bandit 250 has more get up and go than a 600 Shadow.

Yea I've done the P2W compression and i agree, but I'm not really after a quick speed machine, I'm more of a comfortable customizable cruiser kinda guy.

Tho it would be a more comfortable ride at 100 right?

[James Deuce]

No. I find the VT600 and 750 give me the worst backache ever, but that is my horrible body not being comfortable on most cruisers. You'd have to try and see for yourself.

[DMCD]

No. I find the VT600 and 750 give me the worst backache ever, but that is my horrible body not being comfortable on most cruisers. You'd have to try and see for yourself.

I'm 6'5" tall and find my bandit quite a small fit for me, are cruisers any better for tall people?

[James Deuce]

No, if anything they are worse. All the weight of your torso is on your spine, however you NEED to try before you buy. What is a torture rack for me may well suit you.

A BMW GS1200, Buell Ulysses, or a Suzuki V-Strom would work better in the comfort stakes for you IMO.

[sugilite]

I rode a 750 shadow for a few hours last Friday, and.....it gave me my 1st sore back riding a bike ever. I'm 6.6.

[Morcs]

With these new purposed law changes for learner and restricted licensing i have a feeling standard price for 250's will normalize somewhat.

I current ride a Bandit which i purchased for $5,500 with 9k on the clock and was expecting to on sell that in 2 years for about 4.5 - 5k i wonder if i will get anything close to that now?

On the bright side i can sell it soon and upgrade to a VT600 Shadow, won't that look styley with a big yellow L plate slapped on the back. :2thumbsup

Even with learner laws how they used to be, my mint bandit with 30k on the clock, and bought for $5k went for $3.5k.

[Choco]

FXR will then have no value :(

I better hurry and get my full and pass the ol' GN on! :shit:

[PirateJafa]

I'll swap my Bandit for yours. :crybaby:

[NOMIS]

Its a fuking stupid law yeh cool we can own up 2 60cc now, but my 250 has more balls than the bike we can purchase and btw its any 600cc that has no more than 150kw/tonne my hornets over that! so are alot of sports 250's so its a friging dumb law. so i have to sell my 250 get something even more pathetic. And loose money on it at the same time.

[kave]

Its a fuking stupid law yeh cool we can own up 2 60cc now, but my 250 has more balls than the bike we can purchase and btw its any 600cc that has no more than 150kw/tonne my hornets over that! so are alot of sports 250's so its a friging dumb law. so i have to sell my 250 get something even more pathetic. And loose money on it at the same time.
Calm down. The 150kw/tonne equation adds 90kg onto your bikes weight to allow for riders weight. That leaves you with a huge 120kw/tonne for your bike - well under the limit. It also means my 350cc suzuki goose is learner legal with only 102kw/tonne. In fact, the only 250cc bikes that will be ruled out for learners are the 2-strokes.

[NOMIS]

Calm down. The 150kw/tonne equation adds 90kg onto your bikes weight to allow for riders weight. That leaves you with a huge 120kw/tonne for your bike - well under the limit. It also means my 350cc suzuki goose is learner legal with only 102kw/tonne. In fact, the only 250cc bikes that will be ruled out for learners are the 2-strokes.

well ok that sounds a lil better, so i can have a 600cc hornet now yeeeyah haha!. hopefully. not sure what they are to a tonne. man just spent alot of money on my hornet so hopefully i can get a 600cc and swap the parts.

[James Deuce]

well ok that sounds a lil better, so i can have a 600cc hornet now yeeeyah haha!. hopefully. not sure what they are to a tonne. man just spent alot of money on my hornet so hopefully i can get a 600cc and swap the parts.

Not a hope.

[kave]

A 600 honda hornet has 260kw/tonne so a bit too much, but you could get most 4-stroke twins up to 500cc (ie GS500 121kw/tonne) or 4-stroke singles up to around 650cc (most big motards).

[Gubb]

well ok that sounds a lil better, so i can have a 600cc hornet now yeeeyah haha!. hopefully. not sure what they are to a tonne. man just spent alot of money on my hornet so hopefully i can get a 600cc and swap the parts.
Maybe you could get a brain transplant at the same time.

[Jeaves]

i'll just keep my Zeal until I have have my full and if its not worth fuck all at the time......meh i'll commute on it during the week and save the "big" bike for the weekends. Problem solved.

[LilSel]

FXR will then have no value :(

They have value :dodge:...


(PT)

[Ixion]

FXR will then have no value :(

I doubt that FXR or GN will be affected much at all.

Those who but them at present don't buy them because they want "the absolute fastest bike I can legally ride" anyway.

Look at it this way. The same people that now buy a FXR or GN instead of an RGV250 or ZXR250 will still buy one for the same reasons instead of a GS500 or whatever.

It will be the 250s that have sold at a high premium becuase of the "must have 200kph and will pay any amount of money for it in a 250" that will take a hit.

[Oakie]

Hmm. Yippee! It has just struck me that my 400 will be easier to sell as I'll be able to sell it to newbies. I happy now.

[James Deuce]

I'd be hard pressed to think of a more n00b friendly 400.

[DMCD]

What kind of larger capacity cruisers would be eligible do you think? something with a nice sound, since my GF told me my bike sounds like a scooter I've fallen out of love with it.

[xwhatsit]

I'd be hard pressed to think of a more n00b friendly 400.

NT400 Bros.

[NOMIS]

I doubt that FXR or GN will be affected much at all.

Those who but them at present don't buy them because they want "the absolute fastest bike I can legally ride" anyway.

Look at it this way. The same people that now buy a FXR or GN instead of an RGV250 or ZXR250 will still buy one for the same reasons instead of a GS500 or whatever.

It will be the 250s that have sold at a high premium becuase of the "must have 200kph and will pay any amount of money for it in a 250" that will take a hit.

well my bike not a sprts 250 but does that 200 mark to, nor am i a speedracer onmy bike I just like the streetfighter stlying and the riding position, my bikes still going to be in the categorie that gets hit hard big loss on money for me im expecting. Also there nothing on that list that is in the same class as my bike.
mine pretty close to the 150/kw tonne mark havnt qorked it out just off the top of my head i think it in the margin of 135kw/tonne

[Squiggles]

well my bike not a sprts 250 but does that 200 mark to

Tui that. I got my RGV up to 190 and that was it.

[NOMIS]

and what year was it?
im not saying my bike a speed machine at all but it was well past 180 and took a friging long time to get there and a hell of a lot of umm motorway ( i mean race track ) ive had this convo before with other people so just going to leave it there, and yes it was next to my mate in a sti recorded on a rsm.
his was speed cut at 200 on the dot and I moved on. And yes everything is faster than my bike on the m.way I no this.
Any way pointless argument. yet to loose against another 4stroke 250 and come on like everyone says its just a hornet.

[PJ_tpl]

Yo guys. I know this hornet very well, and have seen it smoke '08 ninjas, zxr's, cbrr's (not mc22's yet :P ), another hornet, and hold its ground with an aprillia, pretty sure it was a 150 though. From the lights its been well quicker than sti's, evos, skyline, integras and more. Soon as simon bought the bike, all the boys wanted to give it a go in their cars lol.. But he out accelerated every one.. And i know si's never been stupid enough to race on the motorway though, because he will DIE as hes a very impatient rider. VERY impatient.

Id vouch for this car with my pants down, and im pretty sure you can sell it for what its worth man. IF YOU GET SILENCERS because its TOO LOUD!! Anyway thats my 2cents.

[James Deuce]

NT400 Bros.
Riding position is more neutral on the CB.

[peterpan]

when is this law change meant to come into play?

[FilthyLuka]

well my bike not a sprts 250 but does that 200 mark to,

:laugh::lol::rofl:

No...

[Jeaves]

Yo guys. I know this hornet very well, and have seen it smoke '08 ninjas, zxr's, cbrr's (not mc22's yet :P ), another hornet, and hold its ground with an aprillia, pretty sure it was a 150 though. From the lights its been well quicker than sti's, evos, skyline, integras and more. Soon as simon bought the bike, all the boys wanted to give it a go in their cars lol.. But he out accelerated every one.. And i know si's never been stupid enough to race on the motorway though, because he will DIE as hes a very impatient rider. VERY impatient.

Id vouch for this car with my pants down, and im pretty sure you can sell it for what its worth man. IF YOU GET SILENCERS because its TOO LOUD!! Anyway thats my 2cents.

.............:killingme:doobey::tugger:

[Badjelly]

when is this law change meant to come into play?

Not definite yet. By the end of the year maybe???

[PJ_tpl]

.............:killingme:doobey::tugger:

Well put ya money where your smilies are. Im happy to put $5 on simons hornet. Youre in Auckland and theres plenty safe open roads for a quick 400m blat. This weekend?

[NOMIS]

meh.. :whocares: i don't no matter what you tell people they wont believe it, im not saying it goes off the clock easy and to be honest if there was a slight headwind it probally wouldn't.
And nah im not going to race my bike lol well if i pull up next 2 u sure im keen for a blat but i aint taking time out of my w.e for that.

[Dodger]

So my 2006 Hyosung comet with 21,000k's on the clock is worth what now? :gob:

[disenfranchised]

So my 2006 Hyosung comet with 21,000k's on the clock is worth what now? :gob:

That's gonna be a tricky one...low K's and some warranty time left would probably still sell alright...you'd get the people who want a new bike for those reasons but can't quite afford completely brand new.

Anyone think a bunch of second hand Hyo 250's will suddenly hit the market as their riders upgrade to the 650 (if we get the Aussie resticted mode one) and then secretly remove the restrictions

[tommorth]

wonder if ill be able to ride a 650 guzzi :banana: bananas in pajamas are coming down the stairs

[tommorth]

if we get the same rules as aussie then yes this is choice

[MidnightMike]

What kind of larger capacity cruisers would be eligible do you think? something with a nice sound, since my GF told me my bike sounds like a scooter I've fallen out of love with it.

Has she heard it at 12,000+ Rpm yet? :cool:


Hmm. Yippee! It has just struck me that my 400 will be easier to sell as I'll be able to sell it to newbies. I happy now.

Youre gonna make a killing off that, make some room in your bank account.


and what year was it?
im not saying my bike a speed machine at all but it was well past 180 and took a friging long time to get there and a hell of a lot of umm motorway ( i mean race track ) ive had this convo before with other people so just going to leave it there, and yes it was next to my mate in a sti recorded on a rsm.
his was speed cut at 200 on the dot and I moved on. And yes everything is faster than my bike on the m.way I no this.
Any way pointless argument. yet to loose against another 4stroke 250 and come on like everyone says its just a hornet.

:lol::lol::lol: *takes a breath* :lol::lol::lol:

Ive ridden a hornet before, they accelerate reasonably quickly, but well past 180? Pull off an sti at 200k? Was that with a tow rope attached to a lamborghini?

My stomach hurts from laughing so much.

[jeremysprite]

gay so my vfr that i want to buy is going to be more expensive as it'll be a 'learner' bike?
whats the kw/tonne on a vfr?

[Skunk]

Who said that if you already have a learners licence and a 250 that you have to sell it to fit the new law?

[shingo]

gay so my vfr that i want to buy is going to be more expensive as it'll be a 'learner' bike?
whats the kw/tonne on a vfr?

It's unlikely the vfr will make it onto the list, at 60 something hp it will be over the threshold. If it did, i myself would look into getting one.

[Dodger]

That's gonna be a tricky one...low K's and some warranty time left would probably still sell alright...you'd get the people who want a new bike for those reasons but can't quite afford completely brand new.

Doesn't really matter, as I have no plans to sell it.
Even once I get around to buying a larger bike (and no rush there) I'm going to keep the Hyosung.

[Squiggles]

meh.. :whocares: i don't no matter what you tell people they wont believe it, im not saying it goes off the clock easy and to be honest if there was a slight headwind it probally wouldn't.

I would pay your $90 entry to an open day at puke if it did an accurate 200 down the back straight.


Nah, a vfr would be over the threshold, as would zxr400's etc

Old man's CX would be under though id say (thing has less guts than the mrs' zzr at the moment, could be mistaken for a 2 smoker its burning oil so bad!

What will happen to the learners who own 2 smokers at the moment? Will they say "From this date XXXX will apply", allowing those who just bought them to hold on to them till they have their full?

[NOMIS]

Has she heard it at 12,000+ Rpm yet? :cool:



Youre gonna make a killing off that, make some room in your bank account.



:lol::lol::lol: *takes a breath* :lol::lol::lol:

Ive ridden a hornet before, they accelerate reasonably quickly, but well past 180? Pull off an sti at 200k? Was that with a tow rope attached to a lamborghini?

My stomach hurts from laughing so much.

If you read properly it was my friend in a sti. He wasnt racing me he would of been about 3km ahead if he did his car cut at 200 all i said was after about 3km of pinning it i finally got there! learn to read.

[NOMIS]

I would pay your $90 entry to an open day at puke if it did an accurate 200 down the back straight.


Nah, a vfr would be over the threshold, as would zxr400's etc

Old man's CX would be under though id say (thing has less guts than the mrs' zzr at the moment, could be mistaken for a 2 smoker its burning oil so bad!

What will happen to the learners who own 2 smokers at the moment? Will they say "From this date XXXX will apply", allowing those who just bought them to hold on to them till they have their full?


Do you guys not read ive already said it took alot of m.way not the back straight. id be lucky to hit 150 down there. if you read all posts by me in this thread you wil see ive said
1, My bike isnt fast
2, i have had it off the clock once! and I thought every 250 could when i done it.
3, It took a heeeeeelllllll of a long time to get there ( i cant stress this point enought )
I didnt buy my bike because i thought it was fast nor did i get it to race people I got it on a whim of likeing how it looked and riding my friends.
Nor am i trying to make it out to be fast.
I like it and I like most bike, vtr's cbr's ninja's even hyosungs because they look cool.

Any way im out.

[Ixion]

I would pay your $90 entry to an open day at puke if it did an accurate 200 down the back straight.


Nah, a vfr would be over the threshold, as would zxr400's etc

Old man's CX would be under though id say (thing has less guts than the mrs' zzr at the moment, could be mistaken for a 2 smoker its burning oil so bad!

What will happen to the learners who own 2 smokers at the moment? Will they say "From this date XXXX will apply", allowing those who just bought them to hold on to them till they have their full?

If they follow the Tasmanian example , which is probable, people who already hold a L or R licence when the new rules are signed off will be allowed to use their existing (legal) bike for the minimum time that they would need to get their full.

[stanko]

FXR will then have no value :(

FXR will always be valuable as they are awesome bucket racers

[PJ_tpl]

Guys, guys guys... sigh

Simon did a run from Westgate to Lincoln against my 328i that does well over 200. I hit 180 well before the top off the hill then eased off to let simon catch me and was beside him at the 180 mark before slowing down to get off at lincoln road.

Im pretty sure if he carried on he could of squeezed out a little more. He knows he cant possiby beat my car on the open road nor does he try.. Its a noise machine!! not a speed machine, gives me a huge fright when he pulls beside me and gives it a kick down.

Anyway we did this run just to see if his bike could get off the clock. And it did. I was in my car right next to him and i was reading just below 190 before he started to slow down. It took that entire stretch of motorway to get there but it did.

Bottom line is, no matter what you all say, its not your bike, nor do you know what it is capable of. Its no standard hornet, its got better plugs, leads, exhaust, filter and a retune. It revs faster and higher so im pretty sure its much quicker than a stock 250 hornet, and yes ive ridden a stock hornet and then his hornet so i can compare.

Pfft.. lame :grouphug:

[Radar]

when is this law change meant to come into play?

The end of this year would be the earliest but remember public submissions have to be considered and then the fine details of the law have to be written and approved - and there are many things, not just the engine power/weight. Remember that the bike changes are part of a plan with "2010" in the title.

So lets say the law is actually written and approved to be passed by the end of this year - do you think those with 250's that are not on the approved list will be forced to dump them? Doubt it. The law may be passed but will not take effect until later, probably next year or yes, 2010. Or some of the law may be put into place very soon, such as requiring headlights to be on at all times but again there must be adequate time for the public to be aware of the law change and this means months, not days or weeks.

Changing the restricted from 6 to 12 months (for over 25's) may be put into place immediately since its easy to do.

Getting a motorcycle skills course (or whatever is supposed to replace the current Defensive Driving Course) into place will probably take a year or so.

The only thing that the government is quick about changing the law is when MP's vote to increase their salaries - and this is done on the last day they are in session in December, just before Xmas holidays when the public is distracted. Other law changes take ages.

[James Deuce]

remember public submissions have to be considered

Bahahahahahahahahaha

Can I move to your planet?

[Radar]

Bahahahahahahahahaha

Can I move to your planet?

OK, let me rephrase it: Public submissions have to be heard. :rolleyes:

[disenfranchised]

So lets say the law is actually written and approved to be passed by the end of this year - do you think those with 250's that are not on the approved list will be forced to dump them? Doubt it.

Of course they can't force them to dump their bikes...just make them not legal to ride.

I reckon they'd be aiming to make the list as firm as possible..no arguments etc....How else could they police it effectively.

If they hear the submissions, make a plan, and announce it, with a 6-12 month period before it becomes law, then they can just say that it's adequate time for most learners with 250 strokes to achieve their full anyway.

I've also seen on the Korider forum, the Aussies talking about how strict the dealers are with de-restricting those 650 learner legal Hyosungs.
Apparently doing so removes the LAMS status from it's registration, and once removed, can't be reset back for sale to a learner.

[Radar]

If they hear the submissions, make a plan, and announce it, with a 6-12 month period before it becomes law, then they can just say that it's adequate time for most learners with 250 strokes to achieve their full anyway.


Thats how I see it: submissions, plan, announce (probably in December or early 2009), then 6-12 months to set in place.

I'm on Korider but have not been there for awhile - thanks for the update.

I wondered how the 650 Hyo - a powerful bike - managed to get on the approved list and now I understand it is derestricted. Is this a carb adjustment and can most all bikes get this restriction? It seems to me that many without a full would derestrict their bikes and for this reason I don't know why NSW would have allowed it unless the Hyo dealers applied political-legal pressure.

[James Deuce]

Thats how I see it: submissions, plan, announce (probably in December or early 2009), then 6-12 months to set in place.

I'm on Korider but have not been there for awhile - thanks for the update.

I wondered how the 650 Hyo - a powerful bike - managed to get on the approved list and now I understand it is derestricted. Is this a carb adjustment and can most all bikes get this restriction? It seems to me that many without a full would derestrict their bikes and for this reason I don't know why NSW would have allowed it unless the Hyo dealers applied political-legal pressure.

The throttle slides aren't allowed to open fully. In NSW only a dealer is allowed to remove the restrictor and only with proof that the owner has a full license. Anyone on a learners caught riding a derestricted one gets a hefty fine. The Hyo's restricted or unrestricted status is tied to the bike's registration. It is more complex to type it out than for a Policeperson to check it.

[James Deuce]

Bottom line is, no matter what you all say, its not your bike, nor do you know what it is capable of. Its no standard hornet, its got better plugs, leads, exhaust, filter and a retune. It revs faster and higher so im pretty sure its much quicker than a stock 250 hornet, and yes ive ridden a stock hornet and then his hornet so i can compare.

Pfft.. lame :grouphug:
Ooo better plug leads! Maybe I can do 350 km/hr on my 750 is I get some.

I've seen 800 km/hr on the speedo of a GSXR1000. It's true!

[Radar]

The throttle slides aren't allowed to open fully. In NSW only a dealer is allowed to remove the restrictor and only with proof that the owner has a full license. Anyone on a learners caught riding a derestricted one gets a hefty fine. The Hyo's restricted or unrestricted status is tied to the bike's registration. It is more complex to type it out than for a Policeperson to check it.

I am not sure what you mean by "more complex" but if it is possible for a DIY opening of the throttle slide, I am sure it will be done. How could the police know that the throttle has been derestricted (DIY, not by a dealer)?

[breakaway]

How exactly do the boys in blue check if a bike is 'restricted' on a roadside?

[Radar]

How exactly do the boys in blue check if a bike is 'restricted' on a roadside?

They would have to call in the reg plate (or some police cars now have the technology to do this directly without calling their station). But if the registration shows it has been restricted (by a dealer) and it has been DIY derestricted, I cannot see how the cops would know.

Must check into a NSW bike forum...

[Ixion]

Don't hold your breath on bikes over the 150bhp/t limit being allowed to be restricted to pass.

The experience in the UK has throughly discredited the idea, it's now a bit of a joke.

Hyosung pulled a fast one, they actually brought it out as a different model, and the authorities didn't realise it was really just a standard model with jacksied carbs.

Sort of trick that only works once.

[Fub@r]

So my 2006 Hyosung comet with 21,000k's on the clock is worth what now? :gob:

I can't see there will be a massive price change. The proposed rules are the same as Aussie and Hyosung 250's are one of the biggest sellers there.

Only big change in price I could see would be for say a 1992 CBR which are way overpriced for their age and condition that most of them are in.

Just have to wait and see. I wont be rushing out to get rid of my Hyo even though I have had my Full since last year. It suits my purpose and I don't need a 600+ cc bike at this time

[Dodger]

I wont be rushing out to get rid of my Hyo even though I have had my Full since last year. It suits my purpose and I don't need a 600+ cc bike at this time

I've had my full since early last year, also.
Problem I have now is that the Wife is commuting on the back 4 days a week, and the 250 is a little underpowered for the job.

Thus I now need to find a bike that's nice 2-up and more importantly one that my wife thinks is "Pretty". For some reason "Pretty" seems to rate higher up the list for her than "Sensible" "Cheap" "Safe" and "Comfortable" on the plus side she thinks the attached is "Pretty" :whistle:

[PJ_tpl]

Ooo better plug leads! Maybe I can do 350 km/hr on my 750 is I get some.

I've seen 800 km/hr on the speedo of a GSXR1000. It's true!


Try not to run them over as you weave through the wreckage on your way past.

You don't want to run over anything sharp and get a puncture.

Nuff said...

[DMCD]

New plan, i like the look of the Yamaha XVS650's, can anyone comment on these? they seem to be Learner Approved in NSW

[muzzle]

Its a fuking stupid law yeh cool we can own up 2 60cc now, but my 250 has more balls than the bike we can purchase and btw its any 600cc that has no more than 150kw/tonne my hornets over that! so are alot of sports 250's so its a friging dumb law. so i have to sell my 250 get something even more pathetic. And loose money on it at the same time.
The new WR250R (the one made to last more than 10'000km) is 22.5kw and only 124kg. Thats
about 180 kw per tonne dry weight. Add 90 kgs to that and that drops it to 105 kw per tonne. My stock standard 2004 Honda XR250 is over 130 kw per tonne dry.

[delusionz]

I haven't logged in for a while as I'm having a break from motorcycling but I couldn't help but notice poofterjocks and numbnuts rambling on about some stupid gay honda with a microscopic motor being the fastest thing in the world.

I just had to add lol - beause that was me 1 day when I upgraded from 50cc to 250cc. You get used to 250cc and it doesn't feel all that fast anymore, and, if you were riding with other bikes instead of cars you'd realise alot sooner that 250cc's are piss slow...

[vtec]

Come over here and say that delusionz. You on an SV650 on the track... me on a stock CBR250RR.

[racefactory]

sorry to bring up old topic but this is alarming.

nowhere on the land transport webstie does it say anything about power to weight ratios. simply says under 250cc is ok.

whats all this?

[breakaway]

^ Its gonna take a while to get into effect.

[firefighter]

So when is this coming into effect? I haven't seen/read anything about this in the paper or on the news, I haven't even heard of politicians talking about it, I was aware of the proposed changes through hear-say but nothing real.....I hope it's not before September i'll be fucken pissed I can get my full then due to the whole age thing so that'll piss me off something wicked!

[NOMIS]

So when is this coming into effect? I haven't seen/read anything about this in the paper or on the news, I haven't even heard of politicians talking about it, I was aware of the proposed changes through hear-say but nothing real.....I hope it's not before September i'll be fucken pissed I can get my full then due to the whole age thing so that'll piss me off something wicked!

ACtualy when this thread started, it was mentioned as a Idead from the land transport safety on the news 2-3 times that I saw, No idea when this is happening however.

Just New Zealand following other countried ideas asusual. People that make these laws dont speak to people it affecting . pretty anoying if you ask me.

[vifferman]

With these new purposed law changes for learner and restricted licensing i have a feeling standard price for 250's will normalize somewhat.
Normalise is right - the 250s were overpriced - often selling for more than larger bikes. Supply and demand, I guess...

[h20boy]

MAybe I'm just foolish but I'm on my learners now and really...whats wrong with the way things are working now?

OK some of the older 2-strokes with a few kays on them and that have been thrashed for the last two decades are overpriced...if you don't want to pay go and buy a gn250 for 3K or buy new.

All 250's can do 100km/h or more so what difference does it make to further complicate and restrict vehicle choice for new riders with a daft power-to-weight ratio requirement?

Its a typically kiwi approach to change something that has been working perfectly well for something intended to further increase bureaucracy and confuse motorists...Go the Labour government!

[Monsterbishi]

MAybe I'm just foolish but I'm on my learners now and really...whats wrong with the way things are working now?

OK some of the older 2-strokes with a few kays on them and that have been thrashed for the last two decades are overpriced...if you don't want to pay go and buy a gn250 for 3K or buy new.

All 250's can do 100km/h or more so what difference does it make to further complicate and restrict vehicle choice for new riders with a daft power-to-weight ratio requirement?

Its a typically kiwi approach to change something that has been working perfectly well for something intended to further increase bureaucracy and confuse motorists...Go the Labour government!

Well, for starters, most 250's are small, so for taller and larger riders - they're gaylord.

Next, the current laws have overinflated 250cc prices, new law will sort that too.

Also, when you have the likes of the MC19, MC21 - etc, 4 stroke screamers that will tap their 180kph limiters with ease bone stock - the current law is a joke.

It's a cakewalk to enforce, you have a list of bikes that are acceptable, not that hard huh.

[CookMySock]

All 250's can do 100km/h or more so what difference does it make to further complicate and restrict vehicle choice for new riders with a daft power-to-weight ratio requirement?because, for learners even the most basic 600's blast off at a seemingly outrageous rate if you give them more than half throttle. Being on a 250 just keeps your reality in order whether you like it or not - a wise state of affairs for a learner.


Next, the current laws have overinflated 250cc prices, new law will sort that too.I wonder if that will be so. 250's are *good* learner bikes. Looking at the list, much of the larger cc bikes are dirt bikes or vintage bikes - not really what modern learners really want to ride.

So maybe we worry too much about the demise of the 250.

DB

[h20boy]

Are there any sites with the facts on these changes yet?

[CookMySock]

Are there any sites with the facts on these changes yet?there are - search here and on google and you will find them. But it does not matter what the facts are, as LTSA will grant you an exemption from the GDLS to do almost anything anyway, particularly if you are inside the hp/tonne limitation. So just do what you like and apply for the exemption - as long as its not completely silly they will allow it.

DB

[Coyote]

The Hyosung and Ninja 250R were supposed to make the 250 market more competitive. Instead the price has remained high.

I'm cynical. I can't see the proposed law change doing much more than raising the cost of a few more bikes and people buying learner illegal bikes under the impression that they were legal.


I love how people say "markets" instead of "the people in charge saw they could make more money off people so raised the price"? It's a great euphemism.

[racefactory]

so any idea when it might come into effect?

[CookMySock]

The Hyosung and Ninja 250R were supposed to make the 250 market more competitive. Instead the price has remained high.I think the "learner bike" market has gone ahead in leaps and bounds the last few years, and this has made them stick to their price. With any luck, this will persuade more manufacturers to enter the learner market anyway, maybe with a larger cc bike. Does anyone see any changes in the ozzy market with the new rules ?


so any idea when it might come into effect?I dont think anyone really knows. With all these government mini-dramas in the media lately, I think it might get shelved temporarily.


DB

[firefighter]

Well, for starters, most 250's are small, so for taller and larger riders - they're gaylord.
Also, when you have the likes of the MC19, MC21 - etc, 4 stroke screamers that will tap their 180kph limiters with ease bone stock - the current law is a joke.


totally agree with the taller and larger 250 riders comment.
But have you seen the cars kids learn to drive in these days?!!! (or more importantly been in one) a lot of those will also do the same speed, overall speed is a non-issue really, people will speed no-matter what you put them on, it's the power that's the problem!

[Coyote]

I think the "learner bike" market has gone ahead in leaps and bounds the last few years, and this has made them stick to their price.
I think they've made leaps and bounds in the wrong direction as usual:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-145014816.htm

[R6_kid]

The Hyosung and Ninja 250R were supposed to make the 250 market more competitive. Instead the price has remained high.


The ninja 250R is still more expensive in England than it is here. And they dont really have a market for the 250's.

[Coyote]

The ninja 250R is still more expensive in England than it is here. And they dont really have a market for the 250's.
Well that's good. But I still don't see the old 250's coming down to prices that were seen 3 years ago at least. The market is stubborn and still keeping the price up.

I want a CBR250 streetstock bike!

[The Stranger]

MAybe I'm just foolish but I'm on my learners now and really...whats wrong with the way things are working now?

Lack of choice for one.
The age of the fleet giving rise to inexperienced riders winding up on some pretty decrepit shit for another.

OK some of the older 2-strokes with a few kays on them and that have been thrashed for the last two decades are overpriced...if you don't want to pay go and buy a gn250 for 3K or buy new.

A GN, what more could anyone want?

All 250's can do 100km/h or more so what difference does it make to further complicate and restrict vehicle choice for new riders with a daft power-to-weight ratio requirement?

How will things be more restrictive or complicated? All 250cc 4 strokes are proposed to be included in the approved list already, but you can also choose other machines should you desire. This increases choice, doesn't restrict it.

Its a typically kiwi approach to Sound off half cocked?



Yeah yeah 10 char.

[brendonjw]

The ninja 250R is still more expensive in England than it is here. And they dont really have a market for the 250's.

The bkie they get over there is a FI version instead of the carb one here which adds to the price

[Dave-]

anyone done a google search for rs250 recently?

there's hundreds of them! and they're cheap! (well cheap for the 2 stroke 250 market)

[vtec]

I haven't logged in for a while as I'm having a break from motorcycling but I couldn't help but notice poofterjocks and numbnuts rambling on about some stupid gay honda with a microscopic motor being the fastest thing in the world.

I just had to add lol - beause that was me 1 day when I upgraded from 50cc to 250cc. You get used to 250cc and it doesn't feel all that fast anymore, and, if you were riding with other bikes instead of cars you'd realise alot sooner that 250cc's are piss slow...

Check out these race results:
http://www.silver-bullet.co.nz/eventresults.php?eventid=5510&cid=117
Look down the line of bike types. There's a CBR250 slotted in that F3 field. Now tell me how crap they are.

Bike was stock standard, was my commuter, still had the indicators on cause I couldn't get the screws undone. Running Dunlop GPR's. Only 1 400 beat me.

First race only came 10th, because Dave Rogers the muppet ran me off the track by accident (outbroke himself)because he was determined not to get beaten by a 250 on his 650.

[Monsterbishi]

Look down the line of bike types. There's a CBR250 slotted in that F3 field. Now tell me how crap they are.

Bike was stock standard, was my commuter, still had the indicators on cause I couldn't get the screws undone.

So you're saying it's so good that you could swap bikes with the first person you passed and the cbr would still post the same lap times?

cibbys are great bikes, I had one for 7 years, but calling it fast in this age of wrx's & evos is just wrong.

[vtec]

Yes 5 seconds 0-100 is fast. It's all those evo's and STI's will do without major modifications. And 0-60 the bike is a lot quicker than most evo's and STI's.

[Monsterbishi]

Yes 5 seconds 0-100 is fast. It's all those evo's and STI's will do without major modifications. And 0-60 the bike is a lot quicker than most evo's and STI's.

The word bollocks spring to mind.

Give me half a day, and about $200 and I'll have a Evo 1 running high 12's down the 1/4 mile, doing o-100kph in under 4 seconds, trapping 105+mph.

Have you ever been to a dragstrip before?

Stop talking crap and post up some of your timeslip info, me first:

'89 Galant VR4, rear muffler unbolted, K&N filter, 17psi:
1.894 60'
8.835 660'
13.935@94.35mph

'94 4 door Mirage(Lancer bodyshell with mirage panels), evo engine/turbo/etc, 4wd conversion, 19psi, 240kw atw:
1.721 60'
7.939 660'
12.376@112.21mph
fyi - my Mirage in full trim weighed exactly the same as a stripped out evo(1125kg)

[vtec]

CBR250RR - On a wet day, with mud and crap on the track 14.1 @ 90mph. We are well aware that over 100kph, they are slow. But up to 100 they are fast. 5.0 seconds with a good rider is totally attainable. When launching in the F3 fields, I usually jump up the grid by several positions to the first corner. I haven't spoken any crap. Good for you. We are all well aware that cranking up the boost will make these cars a lot faster, but your average STI and Evo out there will be lucky to be a mid 13, and seriously up to 100kph, a cbr250rr will be quicker to 100 than 60-75% of Evo's and STI's, up to 60kph, it will waste most of them. When getting the launch right, the CBR will lift the front wheel to the top of first.

I'm back in NZ in December, send me a PM and we'll do a few light sprints to the speed limit, then you can tell me I'm talking bull.

edit: Dammit, just noticed your in chch.

Evo 1 with $200 under 4 seconds to 100??? I can't discount that, I don't know what the stock turbos can tolerate, and good luck with your gearbox and clutch, and turbos and driveshaft and conrods and valves and headgasket.

Your galant with 17psi will be quicker than most evo's and sti's out there. I had a modified evo4 about 3 years ago, and I raced a modified early 90's Galant VR4 and we were neck a neck. But my evo was only running 12psi, which i'd say is all 90% of them are running. I was actually quite disappointed by the performance of my evo 4. My prelude was nearly as much fun and in some circumstances handled better.

Here's another thing. My second time on pukekohe on a CBR250RR I did 1.15.1. It was my second time on a race track ever. My brother in his 450hp Mitsi GTO with shitloads of mods, 19" volkl racing mags and large intercooler 3" exhaust. Racing engine internals, 6 speed gearbox managed 1.16. And his best friend in a well modified RX7 only managed 1.17's. Those cars were capable of well over 200kph on that circuit. The CBR was maxing out about 190kph.

Also, if you are hanging out with drag racers, you are only going to see the evo's and sti's that have boost cranked up. The other thing is you'd be lucky to get 100,000k's out of these cars after you've increased the boost. And your fuel consumption will be about 5k/l as opposed to the 20k/l you get on a CBR. Not to mention all the other running costs and initial purchase price.

On my CBR600 race bike I only got down to 1.03 on pukekohe. But hey, that only cost me 9grand and would've been capable of 10seconds down the quarter.

[Ixion]

Dude, it's just a cage. Who cares how fast a cage goes. Boeings go 1000kph or something like, still just a cage (aerial variety).

[coop]

The word bollocks spring to mind.

Give me half a day, and about $200 and I'll have a Evo 1 running high 12's down the 1/4 mile, doing o-100kph in under 4 seconds, trapping 105+mph.



Haha, dream on mate.

You forget to mention just how these jappa shitboxes will struggle to consistently pull these times, especially when the clutch gives in after the fifth go.

[Jeaves]

*WARNING* wankfactor overload:girlfight:

[Monsterbishi]

Haha, dream on mate.

You forget to mention just how these jappa shitboxes will struggle to consistently pull these times, especially when the clutch gives in after the fifth go.

Actually, never found the clutch to be the problem with evo's, the vr4's were chronic for burning up the clutch because of the extra pork they carried.

$200 gofast recipe:
$80 - 3" mandrel bent exhaust tubing from autobend
$30 - Parts to make a simple boost controller from FESTO pneumatics
Leaves $90 to cover a few little things like rewiring the fuel pump for full power and whipping up a decent intake pipe.

The early evo's 510cc injectors are good for 20psi without going to maximum duty cycle, and the small 16g is well within it's happy zone as far as flow goes.

vtec - what was your 60' and half track numbers when you did 14.1@90mph?

[vtec]

I wish I knew. Was just at a Honda vs Toyota drag day, they only gave you full quarter time and trapspeed.

I raced against the car that was fastest there. I was ahead of him to the 60 foot marker, and not too far behind by half track, but by the end of the strip he was miles ahead. He was doing low 12's in a Lotus Elise with a 2.0litre Honda engine in it.

I used to slip that clutch at 15,000rpm, I used to do it every day, and it took it like a champ. Amazing stuff. That's not to say you can't wreck their clutches. Kicking Zebra (Johnno) wrecked someone elses trying to pull wheely's on it.

And Jeaves, I'll wank as much as I want. It's a basic human right.

[Irontusk]

I've thought about the 250cc values, and I thought the value of the bike I'm buying is going to drop.. but then I woke up the next day and realised that it's more likely that the 400cc+ bikes will go up to where they should be, they're the same price as 250s now cause hardly anyone will ride them.
As for learning to ride.. I don't think I want to go bigger than 250, maybe I'll change my mind but at this point 250 should be enough, I'm light anyway so it doesn't have alot to carry around.

[The Pastor]

Check out these race results:
http://www.silver-bullet.co.nz/eventresults.php?eventid=5510&cid=117
Look down the line of bike types. There's a CBR250 slotted in that F3 field. Now tell me how crap they are.

Bike was stock standard, was my commuter, still had the indicators on cause I couldn't get the screws undone. Running Dunlop GPR's. Only 1 400 beat me.

First race only came 10th, because Dave Rogers the muppet ran me off the track by accident (outbroke himself)because he was determined not to get beaten by a 250 on his 650.
hey vtec, the f3 race class, are there any rules on modifications you can do to your bike?