Handling issues

[CookMySock]

Gurus,

My GT650R has always been rather jittery during fast cornering, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

I had a more experienced rider test it, and he confirms it is definitely getting very weird past a certain cornering angle. When pushed, the nose seems dart wide out of the corner - increasing the angle of lean very suddenly and dramatically, usually resulting in what seems like an involuntary dart-right-back-in again. It takes a very firm grip on the bars to try and slow or arrest this, and even that is not very successful.

I checked the tyre specifications and they are *exactly* what the manufacturer recommends, in every respect - every single number matches. They are Bridgestone Battleaxe BT56R 160/60/ZR17 69W, and 120/60/ZR16 55W.

I tried the recommended pressures, and dropping the tyre pressures a few PSI front and rear, but that didn't seem to do much.

I set my suspension on a range of settings, and the change wasn't particularly noticeable.

So these tyres are teaching me to have balls of steel as they are scary as fuck to push hard, but I am thinking it is unwise to push them any further. 1cm of strip on the rear, and 1.5cm of strip on the front.

So is it me ? or the BT56's ? or my suspension ? Any suggestions ?

I will probably be at Taupo tomorrow (friday april 4) also.

many thanks,
Steve

[Hitcher]

Any suggestions?

Buy Ohlins.

[Blackbird]

- is your pressure gauge accurate?
- do you know beyond any uncertainty that your wheels are properly aligned?
- are your steering head bearings in good order?
- wot Hitcher said:niceone:

[jim.cox]

- is your pressure gauge accurate?
- do you know beyond any uncertainty that your wheels are properly aligned?
- are your steering head bearings in good order?
- wot Hitcher said:niceone:

And maybe check swingarm bushes and wheel bearings?

[BadCompany]

Don't buy a Hyosung?



Sorry had to be said.

[Hitcher]

Don't buy a Hyosung?

I suspect like any bike, a Hyosung's performance can be exponentially enhanced by the addition of decent after-market suspenders.

Most people who knock them have never ridden them.

[BadCompany]

I suspect like any bike, a Hyosung's performance can be exponentially enhanced by the addition of decent after-market suspenders.

Most people who knock them have never ridden them.

Or have never been allowed to ride them.

[Hitcher]

Or have never been allowed to ride them.

Would you like me to have a word with your mother?

[BadCompany]

Would you like me to have a word with your mother?

Its not my mother thats the issue :P

[Hitcher]

Its not my mother thats the issue

Ooh! You've got be all curious now, you enigmatic thing you.

[BadCompany]

Ooh! You've got be all curious now, you enigmatic thing you.

Woah, easy tiger!

[MSTRS]

Stolen from another forum...
Good Points: Generally good grip in wet or dry. Copes well with stonking power of my Hayabusa. Turn in feels great. Tread pattern looks good.

Bad Points: Wear fairly fast (but every tyre does on a Hayabusa!). Expensive. Relatively old technology.

General comments: These are the tyres that came fitted to my Suzuki Hayabusa. I've been using them for 4 months now on a daily commute of 40 miles each way, and of course at weekends for longer trips. They are fairly good in all conditions and don't let the rear spin out unless you're doing so intentionally. Turn in is good, the bike seems to want to lean, particularly at low speeds, and braking is spot on. However, the do cool down quickly and so at sustained low speeds in traffic or in bad weather the bike feels jittery - it's only at high speeds that the grip levels start to feel planted again. After only 2000 or so miles, the front is stepped and the rear is square so they'll have to go in spite of still having decent tread depth. These are the recommended fit for the Hayabusa and other hypersport bikes, but this recommendation is nearly 10 years old and tyres technology has moved on. I will be choosing something that warms up quicker and wears better, probably from the same manufacturer, so watch this space for a review of more tyres!

[CookMySock]

ok thanks guys. I haven't even thought to check the bike mechanically, as it only has 6,000kms on the clock. It had better NOT have worn and loose shit on it.

I have tried a number of pressure gauges and they all agree.

Wheel alignment - is there a quick 'n easy check for this ? Mark-one eyeball ? Eyeometer check - how ?

Ohlins et al - where do I start looking for upgrades to this factory suspension ? I would be interested in costing this out, but I don't want to gold-plate a bike that I will soon replace with an R1 or similar. Second hard parts would be considered also. How do I tell what shocks will fit it or not ?


many thanks,
Steve

[CookMySock]

[...] at sustained low speeds in traffic or in bad weather the bike feels jittery - it's only at high speeds that the grip levels start to feel planted again. After only 2000 or so miles, the front is stepped and the rear is square so they'll have to go in spite of still having decent tread depth.

Score! Thank you mate, that pretty much sums it up. In tighter (especially rough) corners it gets weird, yet open-road sweepers are perfectly predictable. It seems that with my limited ability, I am not able to keep these tyres hot enough to perform.

Are these tyres considered pushable in this state, or should back off them for fear of provoking a disaster ? They don't seem to bite and leap - just weird and jittery.


DB

[Robert Taylor]

Gurus,

My GT650R has always been rather jittery during fast cornering, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

I had a more experienced rider test it, and he confirms it is definitely getting very weird past a certain cornering angle. When pushed, the nose seems dart wide out of the corner - increasing the angle of lean very suddenly and dramatically, usually resulting in what seems like an involuntary dart-right-back-in again. It takes a very firm grip on the bars to try and slow or arrest this, and even that is not very successful.

I checked the tyre specifications and they are *exactly* what the manufacturer recommends, in every respect - every single number matches. They are Bridgestone Battleaxe BT56R 160/60/ZR17 69W, and 120/60/ZR16 55W.

I tried the recommended pressures, and dropping the tyre pressures a few PSI front and rear, but that didn't seem to do much.

I set my suspension on a range of settings, and the change wasn't particularly noticeable.

So these tyres are teaching me to have balls of steel as they are scary as fuck to push hard, but I am thinking it is unwise to push them any further. 1cm of strip on the rear, and 1.5cm of strip on the front.

So is it me ? or the BT56's ? or my suspension ? Any suggestions ?

I will probably be at Taupo tomorrow (friday april 4) also.

many thanks,
Steve

Weak low speed compression damping in the front forks, poor rebound control and a rear shock with a huge rear spring rate allied to almost no bump damping. Sorry, the reality is they are built very cheap.

[spudchucka]

Buy Ohlins.

They'd cost more than the bike.

[Robert Taylor]

They'd cost more than the bike.

Thats an interesting perception, all too common and I suspect there are those who deliberately propagate the mindset that Ohlins is expensive. I get it all the time ''hey thats quite a good price, Id been told that they were that much'' ( higher price ) People have a habit of believing what they want to believe.............

[Hitcher]

They'd cost more than the bike.

Depends on the bike. And they're worth every cent. The difference between an FJR1300 on stock suspenders versus one on Ohlins is simply huge. And you'll probably recover the cost in increased tyre wear/life. I have no doubt the same transformation can be achieved on any bike with under-specced Japanese or Korean suspension.

[CookMySock]

Weak low speed compression damping in the front forks, poor rebound control and a rear shock with a huge rear spring rate allied to almost no bump damping. Sorry, the reality is they are built very cheap.hrm I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, I know. I admit to having known this to start with.. shrug. oh well.

Ok so what are my options spending money on this, starting at the lower-price end ?

Or just adjusting it ? I tried the front suspension on the softest possible settings, and its still very very firm.


TIA,
Steve

[Robert Taylor]

hrm I am trying to make a silk purse out of a sows ear, I know. I admit to having known this to start with.. shrug. oh well.

Ok so what are my options spending money on this, starting at the lower-price end ?

Or just adjusting it ? I tried the front suspension on the softest possible settings, and its still very very firm.


TIA,
Steve

Frankly the adjusters on those legs may as well be there for decoration as they will not alter the fundamental character internally. There is no cheap solution that will fix it properly. We have successfully custom built a number of Ohlins shocks for these ( Ohlins Sweden have not made any ) Around $1600, front end upgrade around $950. The price is always because of the time it takes to build the stuff and what the components are worth, and not proportional to the value of the bike!

[CookMySock]

[...] We have successfully custom built a number of Ohlins shocks for theseyeah too steep.

What if I just boof an after-market shock in this ? (not a high-end Ohlins etc) I don't want or need top-quality race gear - just something that is actually in the ball park.

thanks,
DB

[spudchucka]

People have a habit of believing what they want to believe.............

Sure and salesmen have a way of making people believe they need stuff that they don't.

[spudchucka]

Depends on the bike. And they're worth every cent. The difference between an FJR1300 on stock suspenders versus one on Ohlins is simply huge. And you'll probably recover the cost in increased tyre wear/life. I have no doubt the same transformation can be achieved on any bike with under-specced Japanese or Korean suspension.

I've no doubt that they would make a huge difference, in fact I had Ohlins on my old TL. My current bike has Showa suspenders, which are pretty nice too.

It just seems to me that the investment would be somewhat on the side of over capitalising in relation to the value of the bike he would be fitting them to. To my mind he would be better served by putting the money he would spend on expensive after market suspension towards purchasing a bike that fulfils his needs and already has quality suspension.

For instance a 2004 Ducati Monster Sie 1000cc with fully adjustable Showa suspension for say about $11,000, bargain!!!

[cowboyz]

Thats an interesting perception, all too common and I suspect there are those who deliberately propagate the mindset that Ohlins is expensive. I get it all the time ''hey thats quite a good price, Id been told that they were that much'' ( higher price ) People have a habit of believing what they want to believe.............


There is no cheap solution that will fix it properly. We have successfully custom built a number of Ohlins shocks for these ( Ohlins Sweden have not made any ) Around $1600, front end upgrade around $950.
Interesting. On one hand you are saying Ohlins are not expensive and on the other you are saying there is no cheap solution?

So are Ohlins cheap or not? Are you promoting them as a quality specialised product or a cheap solution for every bike?

Now I realise that you are the god of all things suspension and appreciate the you have the skills to back up what your reputation perceives you as but this thread is bordering on predatory. Not a good look.

[Pwalo]

Have a look on the web. There is a US site called 'Koriders' I think which seems to have a lot of information.

There was a thread about a chap who raced one in the twins series in the States. Gave a description of the changes he made to his GT650R.

Might be worth having a look.

[emaN]

Gurus,

My GT650R has always been rather jittery during fast cornering, so I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

I set my suspension on a range of settings, and the change wasn't particularly noticeable.
Steve
I'm picking rebound.
If it's on the way out of a corner, as you wind on the gas, it sounds like the front's lifting too much, taking grip off the tyre, making the bike feel 'taller' at the front & giving you that vague feeling.

Try playing with the rebound; wind it in all the way, go for a ride, notice the difference.
Wind it all the way out & repeat.
Try to find a compromise.

[CookMySock]

Try playing with the rebound; wind it in all the way, go for a ride, notice the difference.thx dood. Yeah I will screw with that today and see whats up.

It seems there is a whole middle-of-the-range set of after-market shocks available that might do better than what I have got.

How can I lower the pre-load on the front shocks ?


DB

[Robert Taylor]

Interesting. On one hand you are saying Ohlins are not expensive and on the other you are saying there is no cheap solution?

So are Ohlins cheap or not? Are you promoting them as a quality specialised product or a cheap solution for every bike?

Now I realise that you are the god of all things suspension and appreciate the you have the skills to back up what your reputation perceives you as but this thread is bordering on predatory. Not a good look.

I think you are splitting hairs here... There are people out there saying that Ohlins shocks are a lot more expensive than what they actually are for many models, to serve their own ends. Now THAT ( in effect ) is PREDATORY.
The fact is I have custom built Ohlins shocks for these for on track and on road and had an original shock to model it off. When I had it I measured the spring rate and also dyno'd its damping character. I was shocked ( forgive the pun ) that a shock so abysmally bad could be built for a 650cc road bike. What may be uncomfortable to a number of readers is that I have cut right to the chase, the cheap and mid price offerings are not going to provide a significant improvement because they are built with the same mentality.
In the end event its the customers choice and ''improvement is a term of relativity.
We have for example also improved the suspension on a number of Ducati Monsters and in fact on many R1s, etc etc. In the end event its a choice between ( sorry ) ''wallowing in mediocity'' or making it as best as can be. I understand fully that it comes down to money and that it is not so readily available in this banana republic. You get as much as what you pay for.

[Robert Taylor]

I'm picking rebound.
If it's on the way out of a corner, as you wind on the gas, it sounds like the front's lifting too much, taking grip off the tyre, making the bike feel 'taller' at the front & giving you that vague feeling.

Try playing with the rebound; wind it in all the way, go for a ride, notice the difference.
Wind it all the way out & repeat.
Try to find a compromise.

Winding the rebound all the way in has on many bikes caused the rider to crash.

[jim.cox]

as it only has 6,000kms on the clock. It had better NOT have worn and loose shit on it.

Steve

What state is the front tyre?

Is it still the original?

Could it be worn out?

Some bikes will eat a set of tyres in 6000km

I've had bikes where the front gets very vague when the tyre was worn. It Looked ok to the eye, but definately felt wrong. Easy fix was to replace the tyre.

[emaN]

Winding the rebound all the way in has on many bikes caused the rider to crash.
yep,but it's hard to describe what it'd 'feel like', so that's why I suggested it.
I'm guessing he'll be riding more cautious than normal during this 'trial & error' period, so...he'll be alright:niceone:

BTW, have you much experience with RF shocks?

[MSTRS]

Interesting. On one hand you are saying Ohlins are not expensive and on the other you are saying there is no cheap solution?

So are Ohlins cheap or not? Are you promoting them as a quality specialised product or a cheap solution for every bike?

Now I realise that you are the god of all things suspension and appreciate the you have the skills to back up what your reputation perceives you as but this thread is bordering on predatory. Not a good look.

I think he's saying that Ohlins are not as expensive as some would make them out to be. They are definitely not 'cheap', but to get handling that does exactly what you want does cost.
I also think that you are being a little unfair abot RT being predatory. A question was posed and RT answered it in the best way he could, along with an indication of what his fix might cost. We all know that is his business, and nobody seems to have a problem with him plying his trade on KB. Whether to use his service or not is always a personal choice. Some deem it vital, some make do.
Now...RT...can I have a cheap set of Ohlins for my endorsements?:sweatdrop

[owner]

New Tyres Tyres Tyres echo echo echo

[cowboyz]

I think you are splitting hairs here... There are people out there saying that Ohlins shocks are a lot more expensive than what they actually are for many models, to serve their own ends. Now THAT ( in effect ) is PREDATORY.
The fact is I have custom built Ohlins shocks for these for on track and on road and had an original shock to model it off. When I had it I measured the spring rate and also dyno'd its damping character. I was shocked ( forgive the pun ) that a shock so abysmally bad could be built for a 650cc road bike. What may be uncomfortable to a number of readers is that I have cut right to the chase, the cheap and mid price offerings are not going to provide a significant improvement because they are built with the same mentality.
In the end event its the customers choice and ''improvement is a term of relativity.
We have for example also improved the suspension on a number of Ducati Monsters and in fact on many R1s, etc etc. In the end event its a choice between ( sorry ) ''wallowing in mediocity'' or making it as best as can be. I understand fully that it comes down to money and that it is not so readily available in this banana republic. You get as much as what you pay for.
ok. please excuse the lack of puns in my posts. I can hardly be expected to compete with that post......

I will start by saying that I have a few mates on the track and you have done a fair bit of work for them and they have nothing but fantastic things to say about your work, how you approached the problem, your fix, the price of the job and the after sales service. I am not sure that you are aware of exactly how far your reputation has travelled... or maybe you are.

However, what I was pointing out was you started by saying that the bike had cheap components (read: crap) and you can fix it for ~$2500. I am not going to get into if spending ~$2500 on suspension is worth it or not because that is a question for the owner, or at least the person paying the bill, to decide. My thoughts do wander into thinking that someone who wants a bike that will take advantage of a high quality shock like the ohlins would be better off with a 'higher quality' bike. The question of pigs ear was mentioned and I think the answer would be swaying towards yes.


I think he's saying that Ohlins are not as expensive as some would make them out to be. They are definitely not 'cheap', but to get handling that does exactly what you want does cost.
I also think that you are being a little unfair abot RT being predatory. A question was posed and RT answered it in the best way he could, along with an indication of what his fix might cost. We all know that is his business, and nobody seems to have a problem with him plying his trade on KB. Whether to use his service or not is always a personal choice. Some deem it vital, some make do.
Now...RT...can I have a cheap set of Ohlins for my endorsements?:sweatdrop

Maybe it was just the way I was reading through the thread but it certainly looked like RT started by commenting on the current shock being cheap and then going striaght for an expensive fix, and then claiming that it is not that expensive.
At the end of the day, if the guy wants to spend $2500 on shocks for his bike then thats all good. I have no beef with a guy trying to make a buck, but it did seem a little off.

[CookMySock]

What state is the front tyre? Is it still the original?
These tyres are certainly not right. They are not the original. They look fine, with no obvious step. I heard a tale of woe today from the taupo track where someones' bridgestone battleaxxe just "let go". All he could do is shrug - no explanation.


New Tyres Tyres Tyres echo echo echoYes, I would dearly love to throw a set of Michelin Pilots at it.

Ok theres lots of good information there.

Right, how do I "measure up" this rear shock to find out what it is exactly ? If the stock item is complete junk, then it stands to reason ANYTHING I replace it with must be better. So what can I replace it with? I imagine there is a whole raft of aftermarket and second-hand stuff to put in there in its' place.

edit: will something like this fit in its' place ?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Suspension/auction-148817006.htm?p=6

edit2: 315mm between holes, measured on-the-bike, no rider.

Is there a part inside the front shocks I can swap out ? Or do I have to replace the whole unit ?

many thanks,
Steve

[Robert Taylor]

yep,but it's hard to describe what it'd 'feel like', so that's why I suggested it.
I'm guessing he'll be riding more cautious than normal during this 'trial & error' period, so...he'll be alright:niceone:

BTW, have you much experience with RF shocks?

Yes, but being single tube the improvement that can be effected is limited. Oil and nitrogen capacity is very minimalist.

[Robert Taylor]

ok. please excuse the lack of puns in my posts. I can hardly be expected to compete with that post......

I will start by saying that I have a few mates on the track and you have done a fair bit of work for them and they have nothing but fantastic things to say about your work, how you approached the problem, your fix, the price of the job and the after sales service. I am not sure that you are aware of exactly how far your reputation has travelled... or maybe you are.

However, what I was pointing out was you started by saying that the bike had cheap components (read: crap) and you can fix it for ~$2500. I am not going to get into if spending ~$2500 on suspension is worth it or not because that is a question for the owner, or at least the person paying the bill, to decide. My thoughts do wander into thinking that someone who wants a bike that will take advantage of a high quality shock like the ohlins would be better off with a 'higher quality' bike. The question of pigs ear was mentioned and I think the answer would be swaying towards yes.



Maybe it was just the way I was reading through the thread but it certainly looked like RT started by commenting on the current shock being cheap and then going striaght for an expensive fix, and then claiming that it is not that expensive.
At the end of the day, if the guy wants to spend $2500 on shocks for his bike then thats all good. I have no beef with a guy trying to make a buck, but it did seem a little off.

In reality to custom build a shock and respec cartridges be it for a cheap bike or a more expensive bike is the same cost I.e same components, same amount of labour. Sometimes its more because the internal spec and components start from a lower base line meaning more components required. No free lunches here...

[Robert Taylor]

These tyres are certainly not right. They are not the original. They look fine, with no obvious step. I heard a tale of woe today from the taupo track where someones' bridgestone battleaxxe just "let go". All he could do is shrug - no explanation.

Yes, I would dearly love to throw a set of Michelin Pilots at it.

Ok theres lots of good information there.

Right, how do I "measure up" this rear shock to find out what it is exactly ? If the stock item is complete junk, then it stands to reason ANYTHING I replace it with must be better. So what can I replace it with? I imagine there is a whole raft of aftermarket and second-hand stuff to put in there in its' place.

edit: will something like this fit in its' place ?
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Suspension/auction-148817006.htm?p=6

edit2: 315mm between holes, measured on-the-bike, no rider.

Is there a part inside the front shocks I can swap out ? Or do I have to replace the whole unit ?

many thanks,
Steve

Actually no there isnt a whole raft of options, aside from the ''one size fits all and works worse than average in all '' mentality. Its not just a matter of finding something that fits. The spring rate in that shock is very firm because there is no compression damping to speak of. And because the spring is so firm it also has a very aggressive and progressive rebound damping curve to control it. The very shape of the rebound curve suggests that it has a fixed orifice rebound piston with maybe a couple of check plates at best. This is a very cheap way to build a shock, you can tell by the dyno curve. The same ''accountancy mentality'' is used in dampers for low price cars.
When we built Ohlins dampers for these we had a proper compression damping curve that then allowed a significant reduction in spring rate, because it was no longer relying almost completely on spring rate to give decent dynamic ride height control. The reduction in spring rate then allowed a much less aggressive rebound damping curve. The difference in ride compliance, mechanical grip, ride height control, steering precision and tyre life is night and day.
As I stated previously you only get what you pay for. The unfortunate and cruel realities of life is that whilst we are ''basking'' in the ( as it turns out) short lived ''pleasures'' of ( especially ) cheap Chinese goods we turn a blind eye to the social cost in those countries. 6 day weeks with lots of compulsory overtime, bullying bosses, very meagre wages and dormitory like accomodation. ''Battery hens'' seems an appropriate comparison. AND, all of this nonsense is also effectively lowering our own living standards.
Maybe I get it in the neck about pricing, but that is because the perception has been distorted by this new and somewhat immoral industrial revolution that is going on. Swedish workers are appropriately paid ( as you expect to be! ) with a nice living environment.
When I hear the word quality with respect to many of these dodgy products coming out of the East I think why is that word not abolished, its now meaningless.

[nallac]

As I stated previously you only get what you pay for. The unfortunate and cruel realities of life is that whilst we are ''basking'' in the ( as it turns out) short lived ''pleasures'' of ( especially ) cheap Chinese goods we turn a blind eye to the social cost in those countries. 6 day weeks with lots of compulsory overtime, bullying bosses, very meagre wages and dormitory like accomodation. ''Battery hens'' seems an appropriate comparison. AND, all of this nonsense is also effectively lowering our own living standards.
Maybe I get it in the neck about pricing, but that is because the perception has been distorted by this new and somewhat immoral industrial revolution that is going on. Swedish workers are appropriately paid ( as you expect to be! ) with a nice living environment.
When I hear the word quality with respect to many of these dodgy products coming out of the East I think why is that word not abolished, its now meaningless.

Ain't that the truth, it costs for quality..........

[emaN]

Yes, but being single tube the improvement that can be effected is limited. Oil and nitrogen capacity is very minimalist.
thanks man...although not what i was hoping to hear.
I'll be in touch at some stage, 'cos it looks like i'm stuck with the RF for a while yet, so I might as well get her sorted.

[CookMySock]

good, so can I throw the rear shock away and slap some low-end aftermarket unit in its place ? How do I tell what will fit and what will not ? Surely this has got to be better than the OEM Hyosung one.

Can I change the innards in the front shocks for something a little more capable ? Can I change the spring in them or something ?

or not ?

DB

[CookMySock]

okey, I had the shop remove my rear shock and measure it up. The spring tension adjuster had sooo much weight on it, they had to remove the damn thing to make any adjustments.. It was set on 3 so we set it to 1. The bike seems to have the rear lower down now, and the steering is not so weavy and sensitive. It might be a bit softer, but I had a passenger so it was hard to tell, and I don't know what should have happened with the lower setting.

The mechanic reports that he has never seen such an almighty spring in all his life, :shit: and that there will be a lighter spring "around here somewhere" to try. I am not persuaded yet - I would rather see a Showa or something else aftermarket with some pedigree, but below about 500bucks worth.

It seems anything that will fit in there is on the cards to be MUCH MUCH better than the original hyosung one. So I'm on the lookout for something newish.

They also noted that there was lots of little hairline cracks in the front tyre - most likely from it sitting around unused - which makes sense.. I was warned any dew on the road will make this tyre quite slippery.

DB

[Robert Taylor]

okey, I had the shop remove my rear shock and measure it up. The spring tension adjuster had sooo much weight on it, they had to remove the damn thing to make any adjustments.. It was set on 3 so we set it to 1. The bike seems to have the rear lower down now, and the steering is not so weavy and sensitive. It might be a bit softer, but I had a passenger so it was hard to tell, and I don't know what should have happened with the lower setting.

The mechanic reports that he has never seen such an almighty spring in all his life, :shit: and that there will be a lighter spring "around here somewhere" to try. I am not persuaded yet - I would rather see a Showa or something else aftermarket with some pedigree, but below about 500bucks worth.

It seems anything that will fit in there is on the cards to be MUCH MUCH better than the original hyosung one. So I'm on the lookout for something newish.

They also noted that there was lots of little hairline cracks in the front tyre - most likely from it sitting around unused - which makes sense.. I was warned any dew on the road will make this tyre quite slippery.

DB

About 15 or 16 newtons from memory. You will not be able to puchase anything new ''with pedigree'' for less than $500.

[CookMySock]

You will not be able to puchase anything new ''with pedigree'' for less than $500.agreed. There's a lot of non-rebuildable gear around in near-new condition, and a bit less older quality rebuildable gear as well, so I will have a rummage.

If I fit something and it was way too soft, well I will just hiff it on my mrs' GT250R.

DB

[BM-GS]

Lots of good stuff in here, but maybe I missed the point about the tyres. If they're worn, biin them & try some new ones. Fronts wear to a triangle and the rears wear square if you use them for commuting (and this isn't a race bike, going by the other comments). Different profiles, like worn tyres have, make the 2 ends f the bike fight each other, which can be entertaining when it isn't scary...

Then you have a serviceable bike, so service it. Check all the mechanical bits & bobs for tightness, looseness, general rightness and then try again. If things still aren't working satisfactorily, maybe you've outgrown the bike? The Hyosung is a budget bike and from what I it hear does damned good job, but it'll never be an R6, so maybe a better idea would be to buy a bike that starts off at a higher level. One of my old teachers called the process of persisting with trying to improve something which is obviously inadequate "polishing turds". No point in spending more on the polish than you have to!

There's no argument what high-spec suspenders can do for a bike, especially when the direct comparison is with the knackered old shite that needed replacing in the first place, but does a $6,000 bike need $1,000 forks? Or would a $10,000 bike be better, as it was all made to work together (a few years ago)? And would the parts on it be rebuildable?

Best of luck,

BM-GS (now a Z750)