Gramatically impared...HELP

[Drew]

Ok then, the title pretty much says it all, but I'll elaborate a touch more on what I need...

I would like please, for anyone who can remember when they were taught this stuff, to post some of the rules of grammer, and punctuation.

I ask because I am slowly getting better at this typing caper, and would rather not have to re-learn anything at a later stage.

Cheers in advance

Ps, be gentle Hitcher, you'll have to slow things down for my feeble mind.

[Mr Merde]

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/cnt_gram.asp

[Str8 Jacket]

'I' before 'E', except after 'C'..... :crazy:

I got an A in School Cert and I still dont have the foggiest!!

[onearmedbandit]

'I' before 'E', except after 'C'..... :crazy:



With the odd exception. Always loved that rule.

[Drew]

http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/cnt_gram.asp

Chur, I'll visit there again when I have more time.

[Str8 Jacket]

With the odd exception. Always loved that rule.

ARRGH! :doobey:

[Mr Merde]

Some rules, for your assistance, in the correct use of grammer


1. Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects.
2. Never use a preposition to end a sentence with. Winston Churchill, corrected on this error once, responded to the young man who corrected him by saying "Young man, that is the kind of impudence up with which I will not put!
3. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
4. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
5. Avoid cliches like the plague. (They're old hat.)
6. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration.
7. Be more or less specific.
8. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary.
9. Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies endlessly over and over again
10. No sentence fragments.
11. Contractions aren't always necessary and shouldn't be used to excess so don’t.
12. Foreign words and phrases are not always apropos.
13. Do not be redundant; do not use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous and can be excessive
14. All generalizations are bad.
15. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
16. Don't use no double negatives.
17. Avoid excessive use of ampersands &abbrevs., etc.
18. One-word sentences? Eliminate.
19. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake (Unless they are as good as gold).
20. The passive voice is to be ignored.
21. Eliminate commas, that are, not necessary. Parenthetical words, however, should be enclosed in commas.
22. Never use a big word when substituting a diminutive one would suffice.
23. Don’t overuse exclamation points!!!
24. Use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
25. Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earth-shaking ideas
26. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed and use it correctly with words’ that show possession.
27. Don’t use too many quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate quotations.. Tell me what you know."
28. If you've heard it once, you've heard it a billion times: Resist hyperbole; not one writer in a million can use it correctly. Besides, hyperbole is always overdone, anyway.
29. Puns are for children, not groan readers.
30. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
31. Even IF a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
32. Who needs rhetorical questions? However, what if there were no rhetorical questions?
33. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
34. Avoid "buzz-words"; such integrated transitional scenarios complicate simplistic matters
35. People don’t spell "a lot" correctly alot of the time.
36. Each person should use their possessive pronouns correctly
37. All grammar and spelling rules have exceptions (with a few exceptions)....Morgan’s Law.
38. Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
39. The dash – a sometimes useful punctuation mark – can often be overused – even though it’s a helpful tool some of the time.
40. Proofread carefully to make sure you don’t repeat repeat any words.
41. In writing, it’s important to remember that dangling sentences.
42. It is important to use italics for emphasis sparingly.
43. In good writing, for good reasons, under normal circumstances, whenever you can, use prepositional phrases in limited numbers and with great caution.
44. Avoid going out on tangents unrelated to your subject -- not the subject of a sentence -- that's another story (like the stories written by Ernest Hemingway, who by the way wrote the great fisherman story The Old Man and the Sea).
45. Complete sentences. Like rule 10.
46. Unless you're a righteous expert don't try to be too cool with slang to which you're not hip.
47. If you must use slang, avoid out-of-date slang. Right on!
48. You'll look poorly if you misuse adverbs.
49. Use the ellipsis ( . . . ) to indicate missing . . .
50. Use brackets to indicate that you [ not Shakespeare, for example ] are giving people [ in your class ] information so that they [ the people in your class ] know about whom you are speaking. But do not use brackets when making these references [ to other authors ] excessively.
51. Note: People just can't stomach too much use of the colon.
52. Between good grammar and bad grammar, good grammar is the best.
53. There are so many great grammar rules that I can't decide between them.
54. In English, unlike German, the verb early in the sentence, not later, should be placed.
55. When you write sentences, shifting verb tense is bad.

[Drew]

'I' before 'E', except after 'C'..... :crazy:

I got an A in School Cert and I still dont have the foggiest!!

That's a spelling rule, I'm not bad with that.

But tah anyway.

[Drew]

Some rules, for your assistance, in the correct use of grammer


1. Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects.
2. Never use a preposition to end a sentence with. Winston Churchill, corrected on this error once, responded to the young man who corrected him by saying "Young man, that is the kind of impudence up with which I will not put!
3. And don't start a sentence with a conjunction.
4. It is wrong to ever split an infinitive.
5. Avoid cliches like the plague. (They're old hat.)
6. Also, always avoid annoying alliteration.
7. Be more or less specific.
8. Parenthetical remarks (however relevant) are (usually) unnecessary.
9. Also too, never, ever use repetitive redundancies endlessly over and over again
10. No sentence fragments.
11. Contractions aren't always necessary and shouldn't be used to excess so don’t.
12. Foreign words and phrases are not always apropos.
13. Do not be redundant; do not use more words than necessary; it's highly superfluous and can be excessive
14. All generalizations are bad.
15. Comparisons are as bad as cliches.
16. Don't use no double negatives.
17. Avoid excessive use of ampersands &abbrevs., etc.
18. One-word sentences? Eliminate.
19. Analogies in writing are like feathers on a snake (Unless they are as good as gold).
20. The passive voice is to be ignored.
21. Eliminate commas, that are, not necessary. Parenthetical words, however, should be enclosed in commas.
22. Never use a big word when substituting a diminutive one would suffice.
23. Don’t overuse exclamation points!!!
24. Use words correctly, irregardless of how others use them.
25. Understatement is always the absolute best way to put forth earth-shaking ideas
26. Use the apostrophe in it's proper place and omit it when its not needed and use it correctly with words’ that show possession.
27. Don’t use too many quotations. As Ralph Waldo Emerson said, "I hate quotations.. Tell me what you know."
28. If you've heard it once, you've heard it a billion times: Resist hyperbole; not one writer in a million can use it correctly. Besides, hyperbole is always overdone, anyway.
29. Puns are for children, not groan readers.
30. Go around the barn at high noon to avoid colloquialisms.
31. Even IF a mixed metaphor sings, it should be derailed.
32. Who needs rhetorical questions? However, what if there were no rhetorical questions?
33. Exaggeration is a billion times worse than understatement.
34. Avoid "buzz-words"; such integrated transitional scenarios complicate simplistic matters
35. People don’t spell "a lot" correctly alot of the time.
36. Each person should use their possessive pronouns correctly
37. All grammar and spelling rules have exceptions (with a few exceptions)....Morgan’s Law.
38. Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
39. The dash – a sometimes useful punctuation mark – can often be overused – even though it’s a helpful tool some of the time.
40. Proofread carefully to make sure you don’t repeat repeat any words.
41. In writing, it’s important to remember that dangling sentences.
42. It is important to use italics for emphasis sparingly.
43. In good writing, for good reasons, under normal circumstances, whenever you can, use prepositional phrases in limited numbers and with great caution.
44. Avoid going out on tangents unrelated to your subject -- not the subject of a sentence -- that's another story (like the stories written by Ernest Hemingway, who by the way wrote the great fisherman story The Old Man and the Sea).
45. Complete sentences. Like rule 10.
46. Unless you're a righteous expert don't try to be too cool with slang to which you're not hip.
47. If you must use slang, avoid out-of-date slang. Right on!
48. You'll look poorly if you misuse adverbs.
49. Use the ellipsis ( . . . ) to indicate missing . . .
50. Use brackets to indicate that you [ not Shakespeare, for example ] are giving people [ in your class ] information so that they [ the people in your class ] know about whom you are speaking. But do not use brackets when making these references [ to other authors ] excessively.
51. Note: People just can't stomach too much use of the colon.
52. Between good grammar and bad grammar, good grammar is the best.
53. There are so many great grammar rules that I can't decide between them.
54. In English, unlike German, the verb early in the sentence, not later, should be placed.
55. When you write sentences, shifting verb tense is bad.

I've explained I aint bright, to clarify your post though, the rules are correct and written wrong to re-inforce the fact, or is it just a piss take?

[Mr Merde]

Pretty much both.

They are written incorrectly for emphasis.

I found them some months ago when I received a pm about my use of grammer, from a person who shall remain nameless but is known for begging transportation from others.

:innocent:

Mr :shit:

[et al]

Remember: Dyslexia rules KO
How many times have we seen "pron", "gargre", "sprots", etc used on here?
I fcuking hate it when I see that stuff!

[Swoop]

Post 7, #3 needs attention around here.

[vifferman]

Remember: Dyslexia rules KO
How many times have we seen "pron", "gargre", "sprots", etc used on here?
I fcuking hate it when I see that stuff!
And you call yourself a KiwiBiker! :rolleyes:
Oh - you forgot "crusier", "prak" and a couple of others.
So - have you got a crusier or sprotsbike parked in your gargre, or is it just full of pr0n? I hope it's not the latter, as that's jist worngA.

[Coldrider]

I though English and grammar was falling into the TXT speak pit.

[Drew]

I though English and grammar was falling into the TXT speak pit.

Funny you should say that, I friggin hate how the written word is being obliterated by texting. Dont get me wrong I text LOTS, but I try to do it with correct spelling and punctuation. (Only trouble is my puncuation is my very weak point when it comes to writing.)

Not sure why it is, but proper english and table manners are two things I beat into my kids. Of course I dont use violence with them, I'd end up in the clink for such a terrible thing...hug the kids at home...BELT them in the car:innocent:

[Coldrider]

One day we will be speaking/writing binary so we are machine compatible.

[Ixion]

0 .

[Coldrider]

0 .
00/20 ASCII

[Drew]

001101110001110

[Joni]

At my office there is a constant debate on the use of the apostrophe....

So we got in touch with one of the men who does copy writing.... not 100% grammar I know, but still useful! :yes:


Apostrophes denote ownership. e.g. Bob’s book means the book of Bob.

So strictly speaking it should be … 1960s’ icon Twiggy (apostrophe after the s) because she was an icon of the 1960s.

There is no apostrophe in 1960s because it is a plural.

Likewise 50s and 60s is correct without an apostrophe because they are the plural of 50 and 60.

Double quote marks are normally used for a direct quotation. E.g. “Go jump in the lake,” said John.

Single quote marks are used in two ways: firstly, for a quote-within-a –quote. e.g. “Guess what, he just told me ‘go jump in the lake’ and I told him ‘get lost’.”

Second, single quotes are often used where it’s not a direct quotation but referring to a common expression. For example. The property was described as ‘a handyman’s dream’.

:scratch:

[Drew]

At my office there is a contact debate on the use of the apostrophe....

So we got in touch with one of the men who does copy writing.... not 100% grammar I know, but still useful! :yes:


Apostrophes denote ownership. e.g. Bob’s book means the book of Bob.

So strictly speaking it should be … 1960s’ icon Twiggy (apostrophe after the s) because she was an icon of the 1960s.

There is no apostrophe in 1960s because it is a plural.

Likewise 50s and 60s is correct without an apostrophe because they are the plural of 50 and 60.

Double quote marks are normally used for a direct quotation. E.g. “Go jump in the lake,” said John.

Single quote marks are used in two ways: firstly, for a quote-within-a –quote. e.g. “Guess what, he just told me ‘go jump in the lake’ and I told him ‘get lost’.”

Second, single quotes are often used where it’s not a direct quotation but referring to a common expression. For example. The property was described as ‘a handyman’s dream’.

:scratch:

That's what I thought to be the case, but given my lack of writing since leaving school, I had figured I had it wrong.

Moocho help there luff, cheers heaps.

[yungatart]

At my office there is a constant debate on the use of the apostrophe....

Apostrophes denote ownership. e.g. Bob’s book means the book of Bob.



Apostrophes are also used in contractions, to replace the letter or letters that have been removed e.g. I'm, can't, aren't etc

[Joni]

Apostrophes are also used in contractions, to replace the letter or letters that have been removed e.g. I'm, can't, aren't etcYup, we were aware of that... but were struggling with the ownership aspect of apostrophe use mostly.

:sunny:

[flame]

Funny you should say that, I friggin hate how the written word is being obliterated by texting. Dont get me wrong I text LOTS, but I try to do it with correct spelling and punctuation. (Only trouble is my puncuation is my very weak point when it comes to writing.)

Not sure why it is, but proper english and table manners are two things I beat into my kids.

.......he tried with his girlfriend too....but her whip was bigger;)

anyhoo, now I know where the nickname DrewGEEKleberry erupted from:bleh::msn-wink:

[ManDownUnder]

Yup, we were aware of that... but were struggling with the ownership aspect of apostrophe use mostly.

:sunny:

Yup

The boy's school refers to the school of a boy (just the one being talked about)
The boys' school refers to the school of the boys (plural)

What about the book belonging to Peter Williams though - is it:
1) Peter Williams' book (I think it is)
or
2) Peter Williams's book

[007XX]

Yup

The boy's school refers to the school of a boy (just the one being talked about)
The boys' school refers to the school of the boys (plural)

What about the book belonging to Peter Williams though - is it:
1) Peter Williams' book (I think it is)
or
2) Peter Williams's book

I'm pretty sure it should be option 2...but eh, what do I know after all? :laugh:

[Badjelly]

Funny you should say that, I friggin hate how the written word is being obliterated by texting. Dont get me wrong I text LOTS, but I try to do it with correct spelling and punctuation. (Only trouble is my puncuation is my very weak point when it comes to writing.)

A few apostrophes in the right place, mate, and you'll be right as rain!

Seriously, your punctuation is not that bad, and much better than the KB lowest common denominator. I mean, you actually use some!

[Mr Merde]

Yup

The boy's school refers to the school of a boy (just the one being talked about)
The boys' school refers to the school of the boys (plural)

What about the book belonging to Peter Williams though - is it:
1) Peter Williams' book (I think it is)
or
2) Peter Williams's book


Grammer dictates that the correct method is that which you have numbered 1)

In the case where a noun ends in an S and you mean to imply the possesive then the apostrophe goes after the S.

As clear as mud.

[ajturbo]

'I' before 'E', except after 'C'..... :crazy:

I got an A in School Cert and I still dont have the foggiest!!
i too got A school cert result....

[Hitcher]

'I' before 'E', except after 'C'

And before G.

[Ixion]

'I' before 'E', except after 'C'

And before G.


Weird rule.

[Hitcher]

Weird rule.

It's always worked for me.

[Ixion]

It's always worked for me.

Look again.

[martybabe]

Look again.


Eight times weird. :clap:

[merv]

What's up with getting educated now Drew, is it to be better than your brothers, or to stand for Parliament or are you just doing it to piss Idle off and you're (not your as some say on here) going to stand for MNZ?

I won't say too much about the English, though I am married to a languages teacher, because I trained as a professional engineer and mathematics and sciences were more important to guys like me.

Anyway, do you want me to put Mrs merv on to you?

p.s. you said you are OK with spelling, but you could always spell impaired right instead of impared.

[Drew]

What's up with getting educated now Drew, is it to be better than your brothers, or to stand for Parliament or are you just doing it to piss Idle off and you're (not your as some say on here) going to stand for MNZ?

I won't say too much about the English, though I am married to a languages teacher, because I trained as a professional engineer and mathematics and sciences were more important to guys like me.

Anyway, do you want me to put Mrs merv on to you?

p.s. you said you are OK with spelling, but you could always spell impaired right instead of impared.

Have you read one of Lukes posts? The boy must have iron lungs with the length of his sentances.

Na, I have no intention of ataining powerfull position.

I said I was OK with spelling, not perfect.

[ynot slow]

E b4 I cept afta Y.

[cowpoos]

Ok then, the title pretty much says it all, but I'll elaborate a touch more on what I need...

I would like please, for anyone who can remember when they were taught this stuff, to post some of the rules of grammer, and punctuation.

I ask because I am slowly getting better at this typing caper, and would rather not have to re-learn anything at a later stage.

Cheers in advance

Ps, be gentle Hitcher, you'll have to slow things down for my feeble mind.

your moms a teacher you dumb shit!!! and your older brother knows everything...accourding to himn anyway...athough riff raff has another take on this?? and you still a dumb shit...and luke is short and going bald!!

Hi Vicki bum!!!! :banana:

I'm running out of beer!!

[scracha]

I would like please, for anyone who can remember when they were taught this stuff, to post some of the rules of grammer, and punctuation.


You'd best post on a forum based in a land that speaks English wot wot

[Drew]

You'd best post on a forum based in a land that speaks English wot wot

Some kiwis know the rules bro, but as a rule we're a lazy bunch and dont apply them.

[Okey Dokey]

Grammar and punctuation are an aid to clarity, not an end in themselves. Good on you for trying to get it right, but I don't think you should get too hung up on the rules. Things like sentence fragments may be incorrect, but they are generally clear. It could even be argued that it is a "conversational" style of writing. Kb is a forum site, and you don't need to use report-style writing on it.

that being said there are obvious problems when users fail to observe some of the more basic structures of the english language and just bang away typing whatever they are thinking n smtmes dscnendin int txt gibbrsh w no capitals orspces or periodsetc who canb botherd to try n red ths stuff

Good luck in achieving your goal.

[Sanx]

Drew. There's very little wrong with your grammar. As someone pointed out, it's a very long way above the KB baseline standard, which is positively subterranean.

Just to complicate things a little further, as a language evolves, grammatical rules evolve too. The pedant's favourite grammatical commandment, "Thou shalt not split an infinitive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_infinitive)", is a perfect example. My mother, formerly Professor of English at one of the London universities, hates people doing it which is probably as a result of her schooling where splitting an infinitive resulted in a rap over the knuckles. Historically, there seems to be little reason behind this particular rule other than the desire of early grammarians to make the rules of English match those of Latin, supposedly a 'pure' language. In Latin, the inifinitive form of a verb is a single word so early grammarians, who went to the ridiculous extreme of writing their books on English grammar in Latin, decided that because one cannot split an infinitive in Latin, one should not be able to split an infinitive in English. But I digress...

And ten pedant-points to those that can spot the grammatical mistake in that last sentence.

And that one.

OK, I'll stop.

There are some good books on English grammar, though most of them are rather old. Otto Jespersen's A Modern English Grammar, despite no longer being that modern given that is was published in 1909, is well-written and relatively undaunting to read. Bill Bryson's Mother Tongue is a very entertaining read and has a large section devoted to English grammar, albeit from a perspective of studying how the English language has evolved. If you can find a modern copy of Robert Lowth's A Short Introduction to English Grammar, it's also well worth a read. Despite being published in 1762, it was in constant use in schools until the early twentieth centrury, and therefore has a direct influence on how modern English in constructed.

The purpose of the rules is to make the language being used universally understood. Because of this (or should that be "Due to this"...) the most important rule to follow is to make the meaning of whatever it is you're trying to say clear. Re-read sentences and word them in such a way that you avoid ambiguity and constructions that, when read out loud, sound ugly. Arguing over whether it's right or wrong to split an infinitive or if one can end a sentence in a preposition is all very well, but the primary purpose of whatever it is that you're writing is to convey a meaning. Grammatical mores should be a means to that end, not an impediment.

[Drew]

And ten pedant-points to those that can spot the grammatical mistake in that last sentence.

And that one.




Ironically (sp), the last bit shares an error with the second sentence you wanted to know the problem with... I think... I hope... Or I am learning nothing.

[Okey Dokey]

BTW, I learned the rule as:

"I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in neighbour or weigh"

[Sanx]

BTW, I learned the rule as:

"I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in neighbour or weigh"

Always thought that rule was weird.

[Hitcher]

BTW, I learned the rule as:

"I before E except after C, or when sounding like A as in neighbour or weigh"

The last two are covered by the "...and before G" addition to the traditional rhyme. There are still exceptions, as noted by Ixion. Weird, eh.

[Okey Dokey]

The last two are covered by the "...and before G" addition to the traditional rhyme. There are still exceptions, as noted by Ixion. Weird, eh.

Yes, it is the same thing; I've just always liked the "rhymey-ness" of the version I learned. Weirdness must help the (English) world go round...