Robert T what ever happened to?

[Sollyboy]

What ever happened to anti dive brakes ? is there a reason they arent used any more honda ,kawasaki and suzuki all had them then they disapeared.
Also whats wrong with having the compression damping on one fork and the rebound damping on the other ? surely it would simplify fork manufacture.
Also is that KTM rear shock haveing no linkage ok , it seemed alright at moderate pace ? is that white power shock so good that it doesnt need a linkage?

[Robert Taylor]

What ever happened to anti dive brakes ? is there a reason they arent used any more honda ,kawasaki and suzuki all had them then they disapeared.
Also whats wrong with having the compression damping on one fork and the rebound damping on the other ? surely it would simplify fork manufacture.
Also is that KTM rear shock haveing no linkage ok , it seemed alright at moderate pace ? is that white power shock so good that it doesnt need a linkage?

1) I preferred to call it ''slow dive'' Damper rod forks have very poor brake dive control and this ''band aided'' that problem. The advent of cartridge forks solved a lot of that problem , but they can of course be improved further. Over 60% of our time at the Road Race Nationals was spent developing shim stacks that improved brake dive control without introducing harshness.

When we fit emulators to old damper rod forks with that ''slow dive'' fishing tackle we actually disarm it.

2) I have a set of test cartridges exactly like as you say. Yes there is merit but only if the structure between the two forks is rigid so that they are compressing and rebounding excatly the same with no flex

3) Ask Shayne King what he said when midway through development KTM bought out WP and made him use that instead of the Ohlins dampers he was very very happy with. He did indeed win the 96 World 500 MX champs but his opinion about the suspenders used is not so complimentary. I have sold a number of Ohlins PDS shocks for those Austrian curiosities and the customers are very happy. This after several revalves in the oem dutch legs....

BTW the world KTM 125 and 250cc road race teams use rising rate linkages and Ohlins suspension at both ends.

[Sollyboy]

Good answers , thanks .

[Bonez]

Don't Honda still do an anti-dive setup on their heavier bikes? Different to the old TRAC set up.

[Sollyboy]

Don't Honda still do an anti-dive setup on their heavier bikes? Different to the old TRAC set up.

TRAC the old torque reactive dive control , that would be the last one they want to reuse , suzuki had the one attach to the brake hose and kawasaki was the one that was attached to the brake light electrics hopefully thats the one that honda copied

[Robert Taylor]

TRAC the old torque reactive dive control , that would be the last one they want to reuse , suzuki had the one attach to the brake hose and kawasaki was the one that was attached to the brake light electrics hopefully thats the one that honda copied

Yes, as you say the torque reactive principle, it doesnt work too bad.

[Sollyboy]

Yes, as you say the torque reactive principle, it doesnt work too bad.

Yes a good principle up untill you use them in the real world and road gunk and corrosion stop them working, like all good ideas they are only as good as the execution , i know what your saying the honda system and to lesser degree the suzuki system were analogue(ie proportional) and the kawasaki system was digital (ie either on or off).
I saw a close up pic of a moto gp bike and it looked like a few wires went into the fork bottoms , could it have been an experimental dive control or just part of the logging system , im not talking about the speed sensor for skid control

[Robert Taylor]

Yes a good principle up untill you use them in the real world and road gunk and corrosion stop them working, like all good ideas they are only as good as the execution , i know what your saying the honda system and to lesser degree the suzuki system were analogue(ie proportional) and the kawasaki system was digital (ie either on or off).
I saw a close up pic of a moto gp bike and it looked like a few wires went into the fork bottoms , could it have been an experimental dive control or just part of the logging system , im not talking about the speed sensor for skid control

I can answer for the Ohlins forks, data logging, pressure sensors etc.

[Bonez]

Yes a good principle up untill you use them in the real world and road gunk and corrosion stop them working, Yeah if they're not properly looked after. Still seems to be working ok on my CB750 after 20+ years usage. Keep an eye on the seals, clean the pins/bushes and a bit of grease on them every now and again. The old girls due for front end over haul though.

What's available Robert? It's a CB750 Intregra? Has the same front end setup as the CB900FD/F2Ds. Guess I could pop into AFC and have a natter to the boys.

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah if they're not properly looked after. Still seems to be working ok on my CB750 after 20+ years usage. Keep an eye on the seals, clean the pins/bushes and a bit of grease on them every now and again. The old girls due for front end over haul though.

What's available Robert? It's a CB750 Intregra? Has the same front end setup as the CB900FD/F2Ds. Guess I could pop into AFC and have a natter to the boys.

Emulators and springs, but the poppett springs on the emulators have to be changed for such an application. The rate we keep to ourselves because we have done a lot of testing to nail the basic spec.

[Bonez]

Emulators and springs, but the poppett springs on the emulators have to be changed for such an application. The rate we keep to ourselves because we have done a lot of testing to nail the basic spec. Thank you.

[xwhatsit]

Thank you.

Wot! $100 Chinese MDI twinshocks too good for the CB750?!

[Bonez]

Wot! $100 Chinese MDI twinshocks too good for the CB750?!Tried and true Konis on the back. Still good, no leaks, after 17 years on the bike. MDIs will go on when the Konis need reburbishment.

[Kickaha]

Wot! $100 Chinese MDI twinshocks too good for the CB750?!

they're not good enough for a wheelbarrow

[pete376403]

There was a mechanical system that Kawasaki used for a while on race bikes (don't think it ever made it to roadies) - the calipers were on a mount that pivoted around the axle, and were connected by links to the bottom of the triple clamp. When the brakes were applied the calipers tried to rotate with the disks and so pushed up front end of the bike up (similar in effect to leading link forks)

Simple and reliable. What would be wrong with such a system?

[Robert Taylor]

There was a mechanical system that Kawasaki used for a while on race bikes (don't think it ever made it to roadies) - the calipers were on a mount that pivoted around the axle, and were connected by links to the bottom of the triple clamp. When the brakes were applied the calipers tried to rotate with the disks and so pushed up front end of the bike up (similar in effect to leading link forks)

Simple and reliable. What would be wrong with such a system?

I think in all reality a lot of these systems were to a large degree compensating for the very poor compression control in the forks of that period. ( Although a hell of a lot of low to mid price bikes to this day still employ terrible damper rod forks ) There must inherently be a certain amount of controlled weight transfer and therefore also a change in geometry to effect turn in. On acceleration there must also be just enough rearward weight transfer. Well designed and tuned cartridge forks ( especially those with bending shim stack midvalves) and rear shock absorbers carry out these duties very well. That is largely why such devices as you mention have pretty much disappeared. You dont tend to see them on world level racebikes.