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PeteThePom
12th December 2004, 17:17
Well I went out for an early morning hoon today and paid the price big-time.
I got pulled by the cops after being clocked at 163kph, whilst overtaking a truck, on the wrong side of the no passing lines.....result, instant 28 day license suspension, $150 fine for the overtake plus whatever kind of fine I get from the court for the speeding, local knowledge says I can expect over $1000!!!

So the moral of this story is........lets all go buy top of the range radar detectors...sigh

What really upset me is the fact that the suspension was on the spot, I couldn't even ride home, and I was in the arse end of no-where, I can live with getting punished for speeding but this seems bloody draconian by UK standards(thre fact that I didn't get the chance to even try to talk my way out of it didn't help either!)

soundbeltfarm
12th December 2004, 17:44
bummer mate.

its all clive woodwards fault .

Jackrat
12th December 2004, 17:50
Welcome to NZ,I'm sure you were warned :pinch: (sorry)
So how did ya' get ya' bike home?

Coyote
12th December 2004, 17:54
The police is just another buisness out there to make money. It's not about making the roads safer. No warnings, just fines. Don't stop people tail-gating, just stop people speeding and take their money.

Next time I'm out riding, I'll follow a police car, prompt him to go to the side of the road, then say to him 'caught you doing 120 back there' and give him a ticket:lol:

WINJA
12th December 2004, 18:10
YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST DONE A RUNNER

spudchucka
12th December 2004, 18:11
The police is just another buisness out there to make money. It's not about making the roads safer. No warnings, just fines. Don't stop people tail-gating, just stop people speeding and take their money.

Next time I'm out riding, I'll follow a police car, prompt him to go to the side of the road, then say to him 'caught you doing 120 back there' and give him a ticket:lol:
And you'll probably find yourself locked up for obstruction, or stupidity, which ever way you want to look at it.

soundbeltfarm
12th December 2004, 18:14
the moral here is you need to be an asian and kill someone and then you'll just get a slap on the wrist and a bit of pd.

spudchucka
12th December 2004, 18:18
the moral here is you need to be an asian and kill someone and then you'll just get a slap on the wrist and a bit of pd.
And then be allowed to go back to where-ever without actually completing your sentence or paying a cent to your victims family.

DEATH_INC.
12th December 2004, 18:40
YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST DONE A RUNNER
Yep,this is the only way 'round it,though it seems F****n stupid to have to go through that shit just cause you wanted to pass a truck quickly and safely(well....sorta....).What's the story behind the yellow lines bit?

ching_ching
12th December 2004, 18:40
Well I went out for an early morning hoon today and paid the price big-time.
I got pulled by the cops after being clocked at 163kph, whilst overtaking a truck, on the wrong side of the no passing lines.....result, instant 28 day license suspension, $150 fine for the overtake plus whatever kind of fine I get from the court for the speeding, local knowledge says I can expect over $1000!!!

Oooohh, shit me Pom, you cracked a biggie. :confused2 My "sorry vibes" go out to you.

Coincidentally I copped a speedie this morning about 9:30am for going 99kmh in a 80kmh zone just over the bridge of the local Tongariro River on my way to the races in Taupo. Braked as early as I could but he u-eed, I said shit, so decided to cruise till he got right up my arse then casually pulled over. I was pissed off, but at myself. No excuses, I told him it was my fuckup and no attitude or stalling, I'll just take the hit. He seemed pretty decent considering when he got out of his car he had "attitude" written all over his face... and I know attitude when I see it. But I guess stopping quite a few drivers all day and getting shit all the time you can't help but???? Anyway, 20 strikes and $120- to the government. I didn't know your demerits last for 2 years from time of infringement either. Last ticket I got was when I was 21... umm that was ages ago.
Didn't in any way dampen my day though. Race day was awesome!!

ching ching

ching_ching
12th December 2004, 18:46
Yep,this is the only way 'round it,though it seems F****n stupid to have to go through that shit just cause you wanted to pass a truck quickly and safely(well....sorta....).What's the story behind the yellow lines bit?

At the races today was talking to a guy and during the course of the conversation he said that he'd just had his Buell impounded, being slapped with a hefty fine, loss of licence, blah, blah, blah basically everything you could get short of going to jail. He said it took 9 cops to catch up to him. Not too sure if it was a story from RingWonder the StoryTeller or not. Doing a "runner"????? If the rumours are true, didn't work out for this guy.

ching

Bleck K6
12th December 2004, 19:01
At the races today was talking to a guy and during the course of the conversation he said that he'd just had his Buell impounded, being slapped with a hefty fine, loss of licence, blah, blah, blah basically everything you could get short of going to jail. He said it took 9 cops to catch up to him. Not too sure if it was a story from RingWonder the StoryTeller or not. Doing a "runner"????? If the rumours are true, didn't work out for this guy.

ching
Sounds like a familiar story aye DEATH

marty
12th December 2004, 19:04
public pressure bought the 28 day suspension into legislation, so we've only got ourselves to blame for that one. the AA wants it reduced to 40k over.

163 on the wrong side of a no passing line and you're complaining though? come on..

and winja - when you do a runner, and paste yourself over the front of someone else, or worse, kill someone else, i hope you don't expect any sympathy from us.

DEATH_INC.
12th December 2004, 19:16
I thought that when passing it should be done quickly so you're driving into oncoming traffic for the least amount of time........

Stinger
12th December 2004, 20:23
I thought that when passing it should be done quickly so you're driving into oncoming traffic for the least amount of time........


I think that there are only about 3 places in NZ where you can legally overtake a vehicle that's travelling at 90-95 k's. But 160 is pushing it...

crashe
12th December 2004, 20:29
163km in a 100km speed zone is a tad pushing your luck when the cops are around... just pay the fine off at $10 a week like a lot of kiwi's do....
28 days without ya bike.... hope they secure it in a safe place for ya til you go and pick it up.... :ar15:

marty
12th December 2004, 20:45
it's 28 days suspension. the bike shouldn't have been impounded, unless it's gone under the 'unnecessary display of speed or acceleration' BR rules

avgas
12th December 2004, 20:46
OK now im a bit 2 faced about this,

a) i would have to be pretty balsy to stop if i was doin 160+, been there done that and you may as well resist arrest cos you aint got much more left to lose.

b) but i mean come on passing on double yellows - why the hell would you do that? Im all against the severe punish of speed exceeders (if the money went to an organisation i would feel better, but to the govt....get fucked), but bein a (suicidal) person, passing on double yellows????? They saved your ass for next time when you cant even walk away

But then again im another kamakazi sometimes, do as i say, not as i do :wacko:

Drunken Monkey
12th December 2004, 20:57
I think that there are only about 3 places in NZ where you can legally overtake a vehicle that's travelling at 90-95 k's. But 160 is pushing it...

Have you been here for quite a while? In your situation I'd have kept my UK license handy...
"Sorry guv, just a tourist here. Thought it was 100 miles an hour, that's 160 kays, innit?"
I know a few people who've done that.

Gixxer 4 ever
12th December 2004, 21:11
The police is just another buisness out there to make money. It's not about making the roads safer. No warnings, just fines. Don't stop people tail-gating, just stop people speeding and take their money.:lol:
That's right. Blame the cops. They made Pete the Pom pass the truck at such a speed then pushed him over the lines to make even more money. I have come to realise that the frustration I vented here over the period of time was not with the cops that gave me tickets on the road but with the lack of action with the cops in other matters. No time to help out to recover the stolen tools etc but stick your noise out on the road and BAMMMMMMMMMMMMM money please.
So do the speed, pay the fine, and tell us all about it. it does help. Could even slow some of us down. ;) :yeah: :yeah:

Gixxer 4 ever
12th December 2004, 21:15
Have you been here for quite a while? In your situation I'd have kept my UK license handy...
"Sorry guv, just a tourist here. Thought it was 100 miles an hour, that's 160 kays, innit?"
I know a few people who've done that.
Now that's clever. :crybaby: :Police: :shifty: :innocent: :Police: :calm: :not:

scumdog
12th December 2004, 21:27
And you'll probably find yourself locked up for obstruction, or stupidity, which ever way you want to look at it.

I'd go with the 'stupidity' one - even if there's no such offence!! (bloody prisons would be even more chocka if it was!) :wacko:

scumdog
12th December 2004, 21:30
Have you been here for quite a while? In your situation I'd have kept my UK license handy...
"Sorry guv, just a tourist here. Thought it was 100 miles an hour, that's 160 kays, innit?"
I know a few people who've done that.

So do I, they still got the ticket. :shit:

DarkNinja
12th December 2004, 21:55
We should expect a crazy story from 'the one' about now...

PeteThePom
12th December 2004, 22:33
Interesting comments from all of you. As far as the double yellows goes, we all know that there are places where you can safely cross them to pass, such as on the exit to a sweeping right hander wich goes onto a long straight away with excellent visibility in light traffic, such as this morning. Most road markings are calibrated to 4 or more wheeled traffic(they needf a lot more space to overtake for instance, so where it's not safe for a car to overtake, it may be safe for a bike to overtake)

I'm not here to get sympathy, simply sharing my experience and I still stand by what I say, a 28 day license suspension for speeding is ridiculous, look at it this way, if I get it wrong on a bike, I pay the price and thats a risk I am willing to take, speed and thrills are, after all the whole point of motorbikes and ANYONE who disagree's with that is deluded or delusional, take your pick. So I do agree with gixer, do the speed, pay the fine, end of story...but lose my license? How about better driver education instead of draconian laws, anyway I could go on.....personally, given the road conditions, visibility(although as I didn't see the copper(unmarked car but) until he was up my chuff with blues and twos going, visibility is a moot point) and traffic I don't think 160 was pushing it, well within the abilities of bike and rider and yes I know it's not me but the other guy but thats my choice to take that risk, I DO NOT SPEED IN URBAN SITUATIONS, only on the open road.


I got my bike back courtesy of a trailer on the back of my truck(which someone else drove!) the telling point of this whole situation is this, whilst I accept that I should be punished for 'breaking the law' I don't accept that that punishment should jepaordize my very existence by removing my ability to earn a living, how many land agents do you know who don't/can't drive, it's pathetic! However there is a potential solution in the offing, will tell you all about it tomorrow if I manage to pull it off............

Rainbow Wizard
12th December 2004, 22:43
Ching Ching wrote "I didn't know your demerits last for 2 years from time of infringement either."

Well bud, those points last forever if you keep topping them up inside 2 years since you last got caught. And, they don't run from time of infringement either, they tally from date of PAYMENT. Sooooo, record your date of payment somewhere and play it safe for a couple of years, OR, if you're getting real close to losing it just plan a 3 month overseas holiday and blat past a cop. Unless that is unless you've racked 'em up inside a year in which case you'll need a six month holiday!

The other sneak is to delay payment if you can until the two years is up, that way you don't add the insult to the injury and you get an almost clean slate for another two years if you're careful.

Not a lot of people know that. Bugger the IRD and the cops, I say its OUR job to be fair! :finger:

Rainbow Wizard
12th December 2004, 22:48
163km in a 100km speed zone is a tad pushing your luck when the cops are around... just pay the fine off at $10 a week like a lot of kiwi's do....
28 days without ya bike.... hope they secure it in a safe place for ya til you go and pick it up.... :ar15:

But read my prev post. That just means your two years starts from when you finished paying instead of from now! Kind of changes things huh?

scumdog
12th December 2004, 22:54
Interesting comments from all of you.

I DO NOT SPEED IN URBAN SITUATIONS, only on the open road.


I got my bike back courtesy of a trailer on the back of my truck(which someone else drove!) the telling point of this whole situation is this, whilst I accept that I should be punished for 'breaking the law' I don't accept that that punishment should jepaordize my very existence by removing my ability to earn a living, how many land agents do you know who don't/can't drive, it's pathetic! However there is a potential solution in the offing, will tell you all about it tomorrow if I manage to pull it off............

Most fatals occur on the open road...

Hmmm, most of the members on this site complain only about the monetary penalty and not the loss of licence aspect whereas you have taken the opposite approach...
EVERYBODY has a reason why the can't afford to lose their licence (me included I s'pose!) but bet you don't make this mistake twice eh? :msn-wink:

Rainbow Wizard
12th December 2004, 23:09
Here's his other post from the bike importing thread:
" As for monitoring my speed here in NZ(the dark blue kph indicators are hard to read at speed) I just go with the traffic when in town and well....let rip once I'm in the sticks....weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee"

Must have a urinary infection! :laugh: Bet he's even more pissed off now! :yeah:

Gixxer 4 ever
13th December 2004, 06:14
look at it this way, if I get it wrong on a bike, I pay the price and thats a risk I am willing to take,............ No this is not true. What about the people you leave behind? What about the people who are in what you hit? What about their family and friends? I was keen on going hard and fast for a long time but I have got old and though I still give the Gixxer a hard run from time to time I have realised the cost of what could happen. Both money and people. For every action there is a reaction. Maybe I should sell the sports bike if I am not going to hit the 220 km/h mark every week but the reality is great pain for others if not for you when you expire. Not to mention the people that have to clean up the physical mess.


speed and thrills are, after all the whole point of motorbikes and ANYONE who disagree's with that is deluded or delusional, take your pick.,............ So explain Harley Davidson then. Oh you mean sports bikes. Sorry But there are race tracks for them




So I do agree with gixer, do the speed, pay the fine, end of story...but lose my license? How about better driver education instead of draconian laws, ,............ This I agree with. But I would be pissed off if I had to take time off work to go to a training day or two. If I am not working here the work is not getting done. Hence my attitude to the hard out speed now days


know it's not me but the other guy but thats my choice to take that risk, I DO NOT SPEED IN URBAN SITUATIONS, only on the open road..,............

You ever worked on the road side and or be at an accident? This is not your place to go hard and endanger others. I know I sound a bit like a reformed smoker but life is short so do not take risks that could shorten other peoples.

Mind you I like the blast from time to time and understand where you are coming from. Just that I look too far ahead at the moment.

Blackbird
13th December 2004, 06:30
I have no problem with the police doing their job. I'm really happy that that they remove crap drivers and make the roads safer for the rest of us, despite getting the occasional tug for speeding. It's impossible for them to be selective.

I do have a radar detector, mainly for when I miss eyeballing camera vans. I reckon it's actually slowed me up due to being paranoid every time it goes off!

MikeL
13th December 2004, 08:38
I have no problem with the police doing their job. I'm really happy that that they remove crap drivers and make the roads safer for the rest of us, despite getting the occasional tug for speeding. It's impossible for them to be selective.


What is a "crap" driver? And does an increasingly strict, no-tolerance, no-discretion enforcement policy actually make the roads safer?

Overtaking on a double yellow line at 163 strikes me as unwise, to say the least, regardless of the individual circumstances...

On the other hand, it is entirely possible to lose one's licence and be removed from the road for an extended period entirely as a result of an accumulation of demerit points for offences such as 111 kph on the open road. A hypothetical motorist, who has held a licence for 30-odd years, never had a serious crash or been convicted of anything other than minor speeding offences, and is therefore a relatively "safe" driver, if he loses his licence, will statistically reduce the average "safety" of the roads, albeit infinitesimally.
Multiply that infinitesimal statistical effect by whatever number of otherwise "safe" drivers/riders are being put off the roads by stricter and stricter enforcement of speeding laws and ultimately it becomes significant.
Taken to the (absurd) conclusion, we will be left with roads populated by criminals who flout all regulations anyway and people who keep safely to the speed limit but still don't give way at intersections, remember to signal before changing lanes, or think that the sudden U-turn in a busy city street might be hazardous to someone's health...

scumdog
13th December 2004, 08:51
Quite right! Since indicating, giving way at intersections etc is up to the driver/riders discretion I don't see why the speed they want to travel at should not likewise be up to their discretion too. :rolleyes:

Coyote
13th December 2004, 08:56
The comment I made earlier was a bit stupid. You're kinda asking for a ticket going at 160.

But I still reckon cops are still out to get money. About a year back, we were towing one of our bikes on our trailer, and the speed limit for a trailer is 80kph, which is hard to do when you have people wanting to go 100 up your ass. Anyway, since we only recently got the trailer at the time, my Dad had forgotten about the 80 rule and was doing about 90 to keep up with the rest of the traffic, cop pulls us over and says he caught us doing 92kph, and gives us a ticket for roughly $400. Isn't that a bit excessive?

jrandom
13th December 2004, 08:58
trailer... 92kph... ticket for roughly $400

That can't possibly be right. 12kph over the limit doesn't get you a $400 ticket.

scumdog
13th December 2004, 09:01
Damn right it's expensive, come down here and IF I did give you a ticket for that speed I believe it would be for $80.
Off the top of my head I would say you would have to be towing at 116kmh or faster to get a $400 speeding ticket - you sure the price is right and you sure there were no other offences (no w.o.f. etc) involved?

Coyote
13th December 2004, 09:02
That can't possibly be right. 12kph over the limit doesn't get you a $400 ticket.
My Dad might be stretching the truth. I didnt hear the cop cause I was half asleep in the back seat of our cage. Whats the normal fine for 10+kph over?

Timetogo
13th December 2004, 09:22
The whole speeding thing is a load of....
Problem is its an easy one to target, makes the politicians feel good, the mad right feel holy and gives the police something nice and easy to monitor cause they have a digital readout with little extra work apart from sitting in there car waiting for some poor bastard who’s doing more than 8-9 kph over so their stats look better AND they make lots of money from it.
They see people coming who are speeding and give them a ticket with a nice readout on the dash that says "yes you were speeding" Which is a LOT easier than proving you didn't indicate or were following to closely etc. especially if its argued in court without a witness or similar.
They aren't about to sit at an intersection and count the number of people who do indicate correctly when again they have a nice little digital counter to do the job for them. How much is the current road toll up on last year ?? the median speed has certainly been lowered ….

crashe
13th December 2004, 09:31
Quote[ speed and thrills are, after all the whole point of motorbikes and ANYONE who disagree's with that is deluded or delusional, take your pick. ]Quote

Actually I like to ride because I enjoy riding.... I dont go out there to speed on the open roads... I do like to see what is happening out there....
I may zip and zap in the suburbs etc... but open roads no way.
But then I dont have a fast bike either just for that reason. :ride:

But then not everyone wants to speed or be a lunatic on their bikes.

So does that me deluded or delusional.... NO F**King way.
:Oi: :Oi:

scumdog
13th December 2004, 09:33
The whole speeding thing is a load of....
Problem is its an easy one to target, makes the politicians feel good, the mad right feel holy and gives the police something nice and easy to monitor cause they have a digital readout with little extra work apart from sitting in there car waiting for some poor bastard who’s doing more than 8-9 kph over so their stats look better AND they make lots of money from it.
They see people coming who are speeding and give them a ticket with a nice readout on the dash that says "yes you were speeding" Which is a LOT easier than proving you didn't indicate or were following to closely etc. especially if its argued in court without a witness or similar.
They aren't about to sit at an intersection and count the number of people who do indicate correctly when again they have a nice little digital counter to do the job for them. How much is the current road toll up on last year ?? the median speed has certainly been lowered ….

And your quick, simple and easy to implement plan to nab those that don't indicate or follow too close is...? - without using any more staff of course.
BTW:
I have yet to see a way to detect a 'fails to indicate' or 'follows to close' from 250 metres AND have them drive right up to the Police vehicle so in that respect your comments about the 'nice readout on the dash' and the ease of using it is correct.
If your talking about money then those to examples would be more profitable than a measly $80 for doing 'only' 14km over the limit so get off your whinging arse and invent a way that detecting those two offences easier for me. (and people I HAVE stopped for those type of things say 'what about all those mad drivers that speed all the time, why don't you pick on them?')
Have a nice Christmas.

Coyote
13th December 2004, 09:36
If ya wanna speed, start racing. Far safer as the traffic is all one way, and no cops out there to say slow down.

XP@
13th December 2004, 10:31
Have sympathy... I was caught for 111km in a 50 zone just after I came out here.
I suffered the 28day ban (a friend rode my bike home) but as for the fine... well they should have made sure that their speed gun was properly calibrated.

I would suggest you get a good traffic lawer or make sure they have followed the rule book to the letter.

Even if you do manage to get off it use the 28 days to think long and hard about your riding. I did, it has probably saved my life a number of times :ride:
As a result I bought a book (proficiant motorcycling by D L Hough), took a few lessons (in preparation for mitigation in court) and bought a slower bike (f650)
:scooter:
The F650 opened up a Kiwi novelty called gravel roads. With chunky tyres and a few guts you have a lot more fun off road and on gravel than you ever thought possible on the road. You also stand a lot less chance of being caught at silly speeds.

loosebruce
13th December 2004, 12:24
I've got just over 2 weeks to go until i am legally allowed to ride on the road again, this time i lost it on dermerits, but i have lost it in a bigger way a long time ago, who do i blame, myself, i was the one that choose to open the throttle, i'm not a stupid man (some might disagree) but i know the laws quite well and know full well i'm doing wrong and if i get caught, well shit i get caught, i live with it, i've been push biking to work almost every day, not having a licence has been an inconvience but i only have myself to blame.

Why anyone would blame the police i don't know, sometimes i feel they are a bit unreasonable, but what can you do? I always am polite and coopritvie (sp) when pulled i wont give the officer any shit or try and talk my way out of it, for that fact half the time i get off with a waring or a much lighter fine, well worth being a nice guy.

Example being one day i gave the TL a handful in 2nd in a 50 :pinch: of all places, throttled off rolled round the corner and ping, HP sitting on the side of the road with his head out the the window looking straight at me, i waved to em and pulled straight over beside him, he'd clocked me at 83kph, we had a nice wee chat and he asked me why, i couldn't give him an answer why i did it, but he stated how he used to ride and RF900 back in south africa and knows how easy it is to get up to speed on bikes, i was licenced and WOF and Reg'd, tyres had tread (for a change :crazy: ) he said he wouldn't overlook it completely but did me for 61kph - $80 ticket and 20 points, better than the other ticket i could've got, top bloke he was.

Morale- be good to the police if you get pulled, hell i aint no angel i have done a few runners.

And big ups to the officer who got some drunken bum who i watched pull outta the side road across from st lukes drive up the traffic island then slowly drive back across the road and park up, as i rode by he was finishing off a beer (WTF) quick call on the cell and the patrol car was on em in a matter a minutes :)

MikeL
13th December 2004, 14:14
top bloke he was.



On the contrary. I think he let the side down. Not to mention confuse the motoring public with blatant inconsistency. I did 71 in a 50 - absolutely no aggravating circumstances - a wide, almost deserted thoroghfare at 10 pm in perfect visibility and weather conditions - no-one can persuade me that my speed was unsafe in anything other than a statistical sense. She cheerfully did me for 71 ($120 = 35 points).
If there are going to be exceptions made, how about some consistency on the criteria and from officer to officer? Otherwise, as I've pointed out previously, it's just a lottery.

Biff
13th December 2004, 14:26
Hey poms - if you get caught speeding while you still have a UK licence to hand, do what I do (done twice) , tell them you're a tourist, pay your fine and get away without any demerit points. Just keep an eye on your ticket, if the cop enters your DOB on the ticket then your points will add up on a specifically allocated Kiwi cyber licence. So if you do ever apply for a Kiwi licence they'll be on there. Then there's the possibility of a cop running a rego check on your moto, then you're in deep shittee.

I was talking to a French biker the other day (yes he did smell) whose been doing it for years. "Claims" to have racked up over 12 speeding tickets in the last 2 years or so and should have been banned 2 or three times over.

Even better - don't speed, get bored, turn to drink and drugs, beat the wife, get divorced and be forced to live the rest of your life in a cardboard box in the gutter - or even worse join the H.P!! :done:

Storm
13th December 2004, 14:38
Got some real issues with the HP havent you ? :Police:

spudchucka
13th December 2004, 14:40
On the contrary. I think he let the side down. Not to mention confuse the motoring public with blatant inconsistency. I did 71 in a 50 - absolutely no aggravating circumstances - a wide, almost deserted thoroghfare at 10 pm in perfect visibility and weather conditions - no-one can persuade me that my speed was unsafe in anything other than a statistical sense. She cheerfully did me for 71 ($120 = 35 points).
If there are going to be exceptions made, how about some consistency on the criteria and from officer to officer? Otherwise, as I've pointed out previously, it's just a lottery.
People whine that cops don't use their discretion then others whine when they hear of an example where a cop has used his discretion. You just can't please everyone!

We have a very open and transparent speed enforcement policy, everyone knows the rules and the consequences of getting caught. You sign up to these rules when you apply for a drivers licence so don't whinge about the consequences for breaking the rules! If you don't accept the rules then either don't drive or get used to the fact that you are going to find yourself in increasing levels of poo.

A cops discretion is his own to use as he sees fit. Some are more forgiving than others, some hardly use their discretion at all. Discretion is not something that can be controlled by the organisation as it is always a subjective decision of the officer involved whether to use discretion or not.

The organisation however does try to controll it by having a policy of ticketing anyone caught doing 11+ kph over the posted speed limit, (which is the very thing that most of the whingers whinge about). The motoring public knows this and should drive accordingly if they don't want to receive speeding fines.

If you don't want to accept these rules and enforcement policies then you better just hope that you only get caught by cops who are liberal with the discretion.

If thats a lottery then stiff shit!

Yokai
13th December 2004, 15:35
A cops discretion is his own to use as he sees fit.
Hence the term "discretion" ...

Some are more forgiving than others, some hardly use their discretion at all.

from M-W.com:
Discretion
3 a : individual choice or judgment left the decision to his discretion b : power of free decision or latitude of choice within certain legal bounds reached the age of discretion

So basically a cop uses his or her discretion even when adhering strictly to the law. I exercise my discretion in drinking and driving (I don't drink at all if I know I am going to be driving or if there is a good chance that I will be).

I think that all decisions taken by the police in respect of my driving have been sane decisions, whether or not I think that it is a reasonable thing to have to pay 1000 US dollars + traffic school for speeding (70mph in a 35 because I thought I was still in England for some unknown reason) is irrelevant. The cop makes the best decision for their judgment at the time. I don't think that I would ever become a cop because they frankly have a shite job to do, get all of us lot whining and whingeing and still have the chance of some crazed P-head cutting them up with a samurai sword.

The problem is not that the police are using their discretion but more that certain police have personalities that rub us up the wrong way (that might be what they say or it could be how hard they push you down the stairs on the way to the cells, depending on the individual.)

It is very difficult for anyone to legislate for all cases. Frankly the cause of the issue is that there IS discretion being used. If it was a rule that the police fined you 100 dollars for every K over the speed limit, regardless of reason, then there'd be less of a problem with us whining. Except we'd whine about how harsh the law was, not how harsh the police were.

Frankly :whocares: what you got on your licence? How many demerits etc. You choose to break the law, you pays your money and you takes your chances.

So - :calm: is the way to go. We all know the decisions we make when we get on a bike. We all know the decisions we make when we are winding the throttle out.... We know that Spudchucker or Scumdog or someone is gonna get us at some point if we don't stick to the limit... We also know that they run a great risk out there of being seriously hurt or killed by idiots upset with their use of discretion. My hat's off to them.

Less whingeing, more riding!

ching_ching
13th December 2004, 18:44
The comment I made earlier was a bit stupid. You're kinda asking for a ticket going at 160.

But I still reckon cops are still out to get money. About a year back, we were towing one of our bikes on our trailer, and the speed limit for a trailer is 80kph, which is hard to do when you have people wanting to go 100 up your ass. Anyway, since we only recently got the trailer at the time, my Dad had forgotten about the 80 rule and was doing about 90 to keep up with the rest of the traffic, cop pulls us over and says he caught us doing 92kph, and gives us a ticket for roughly $400. Isn't that a bit excessive?

You weren't wearing your hooded sweatshirt with the hood over your head and wearing dark sunnies while your old man was beating out those "boy racer" tunes by any chance?? :spudwhat: :bleh:

2_SL0
13th December 2004, 20:21
I tend to agree with Mike L on this, its sad fact that the person who this will most effect is the poor sod who gets pinged for 111kmh and over two yrs manages to accumalate enough points to loose his licence. Was this person a danger on the road. I doupt it. Where as the real problem, (the guy doing 160-200 and overtaking where ever he feels, you know the guy, he is also indestructible) Doesnt worry whether he has or hasnt got a licence. I dont mind the fine for 111kmh (though at the time I do get annoyed) But c'mon giving demerit points out for it, is a bit harsh, Why dont they lift the point at which the demerit points are given out for speeding, anything over 120 and I would gladly accept the fact "You got me" and take the points like a man. :o In the past 3 yrs I have had 2 tickets one for 111kmh and one for 116kmh. Both in a 100kmh zone. On a clear day. The 111kmh was even funny I was in a stream of traffic, I just happened to be the guy on the end. The officer attempted to give me a leaflet on the dangers of speeding. Im afraid I just laughed and gave it him back. I already had the ticket so no point being polite about it. Jumped into the cage and accelerated back up to 110kmh.

ajturbo
13th December 2004, 21:18
A cops discretion is his own to use as he sees fit. Some are more forgiving than others, some hardly use their discretion at all. Discretion is not something that can be controlled by the organisation as it is always a subjective decision of the officer involved whether to use discretion or not.

The organisation however does try to controll it by having a policy of ticketing anyone caught doing 11+ kph over the posted speed limit, (which is the very thing that most of the whingers whinge about). The motoring public knows this and should drive accordingly if they don't want to receive speeding fines.

If you don't want to accept these rules and enforcement policies then you better just hope that you only get caught by cops who are liberal with the discretion.

If thats a lottery then stiff shit!


yea i agree.. i got zapped, i asked if he could be nice to me he said i was going to fast for that here you are ( a ticket) what could i say ..i was in the wrong and i knew it....
i will pay when the reminder gets sent out

avgas
13th December 2004, 21:58
Interesting comments from all of you. As far as the double yellows goes, we all know that there are places where you can safely cross them to pass, such as on the exit to a sweeping right hander wich goes onto a long straight away with excellent visibility in light traffic, such as this morning. Most road markings are calibrated to 4 or more wheeled traffic(they needf a lot more space to overtake for instance, so where it's not safe for a car to overtake, it may be safe for a bike to overtake)

Funny i had the same thought a while ago, but say there is a stationary object in the right lane going round the corner, by the time you have seen it, reacted and touched the brake lever you have travelled 4 meters. Also most objects in the right lane arent stationary. I agree that sometimes no passing lanes can look passable, but the only people who get it wrong, and pass at an impropriate time - well theyre dead. But this sound like a situation where they fucked up the road markings, should have been dotted, not solid yellows.
:whocares:
Where did the cop pass the truck? :laugh:

PeteThePom
13th December 2004, 22:55
No this is not true. What about the people you leave behind? What about the people who are in what you hit? What about their family and friends? I was keen on going hard and fast for a long time but I have got old and though I still give the Gixxer a hard run from time to time I have realised the cost of what could happen. Both money and people. For every action there is a reaction. Maybe I should sell the sports bike if I am not going to hit the 220 km/h mark every week but the reality is great pain for others if not for you when you expire. Not to mention the people that have to clean up the physical mess.

So do you live your life for other people? Not for me I'm afraid, as for people who are in what I hit, your assuming I hit another vehicle and the incidence of other road users being hurt when involved in an RTA involving a bike is less than 5%(still not acceptable for others to be hurt due to my risk taking I agree on that) You say that you give your bike a hard run from time to time, well so do I, I was just unlucky enough to get caught, so stop being so bloody hypocritical!

So explain Harley Davidson then. Oh you mean sports bikes. Sorry But there are race tracks for them Harleys are all about thrills, you ever taken one around a corner at 100kmh? Thats a thrill for sure!



This I agree with. But I would be pissed off if I had to take time off work to go to a training day or two. If I am not working here the work is not getting done. Hence my attitude to the hard out speed now days

I'd rather have two days off work than 28 days


You ever worked on the road side and or be at an accident? This is not your place to go hard and endanger others. I know I sound a bit like a reformed smoker but life is short so do not take risks that could shorten other peoples.

Mind you I like the blast from time to time and understand where you are coming from. Just that I look too far ahead at the moment.
Always glad to hear your point of view though !

PeteThePom
13th December 2004, 23:01
Quote[ speed and thrills are, after all the whole point of motorbikes and ANYONE who disagree's with that is deluded or delusional, take your pick. ]Quote

Actually I like to ride because I enjoy riding.... I dont go out there to speed on the open roads... I do like to see what is happening out there....
I may zip and zap in the suburbs etc... but open roads no way.
But then I dont have a fast bike either just for that reason. :ride:

But then not everyone wants to speed or be a lunatic on their bikes.

So does that me deluded or delusional.... NO F**King way.
:Oi: :Oi:

So tell me,do you not get a thrill out of your zipping and zapping?...........

Also you seem to imply from your post that you zip/zap on urban roads but not the open road?? Most accidents, not fatalities happen below 50kph, so who's safer? huh?

PeteThePom
13th December 2004, 23:10
I tend to agree with Mike L on this, its sad fact that the person who this will most effect is the poor sod who gets pinged for 111kmh and over two yrs manages to accumalate enough points to loose his licence. Was this person a danger on the road. I doupt it. Where as the real problem, (the guy doing 160-200 and overtaking where ever he feels, you know the guy, he is also indestructible) Doesnt worry whether he has or hasnt got a licence.
Me? Indestructible? Not at all, if I thought that I'd have been flat out at 240kph!

PeteThePom
13th December 2004, 23:15
Funny i had the same thought a while ago, but say there is a stationary object in the right lane going round the corner, by the time you have seen it, reacted and touched the brake lever you have travelled 4 meters. Also most objects in the right lane arent stationary. I agree that sometimes no passing lanes can look passable, but the only people who get it wrong, and pass at an impropriate time - well theyre dead. But this sound like a situation where they fucked up the road markings, should have been dotted, not solid yellows.
:whocares:
Where did the cop pass the truck? :laugh:
Really? What part of "such as on the exit to a sweeping right hander wich goes onto a long straight away with excellent visibility in light traffic" don't you understand?

I could see for well over a 100 metres clear road in front of the truck I was passing, so no objects, stationery or otherwise were 'invisible' to me...................so I was not passing at an inappropriate time and I'm not bloody dead!!!:angry2:

PeteThePom
13th December 2004, 23:17
Where did the cop pass the truck? :laugh:
Not sure as I was concentrating on looking forwards, kinda helps to keep you alive at those speeds :first:

PeteThePom
13th December 2004, 23:19
If ya wanna speed, start racing. Far safer as the traffic is all one way, and no cops out there to say slow down.
I have thought of that but riding the same circuit gets kinda boring, more variety on the open road dontcha know? Plus I can't go for a quick blat on the circuit can I???

But then again....................

Teflon
14th December 2004, 05:36
Thats just bad luck man. I can't judge you for passing on double yellow lines, i've done it before.

Bike you ride that speed would be so easy to do, think people don't realise that.

2_SL0
14th December 2004, 06:38
Me? Indestructible? Not at all, if I thought that I'd have been flat out at 240kph!


Wasnt neccessary meaing you.

Biff
14th December 2004, 07:14
Got some real issues with the HP havent you ? :Police:

No more than the average biker I guess. To be honest, the H.P's I've had the misfortune to meet have been really polite, nice (hmm) guys. In total contrast to UK traffic cops who are really brash, loud and aggressive.

I just hate geeting caught speeding!

rodgerd
14th December 2004, 08:11
Really? What part of "such as on the exit to a sweeping right hander wich goes onto a long straight away with excellent visibility in light traffic" don't you understand?

I could see for well over a 100 metres clear road in front of the truck I was passing, so no objects, stationery or otherwise were 'invisible' to me...................so I was not passing at an inappropriate time and I'm not bloody dead!!!:angry2:

Apart from the fact failed to notice a cop and couldn't slow down in time to avoid losing your license. So obviously you weren't paying that much attention and didn't have that much control.

Yokai
14th December 2004, 08:24
I would gladly accept the fact "You got me" and take the points like a man. :o In the past 3 yrs I have had 2 tickets one for 111kmh and one for 116kmh. Both in a 100kmh zone. On a clear day.

Some Quick Questions:
Is 111kmh > 100Kmh?
Is 116kmh > 100kmh?
Was the speed limit 100kmh?
Are demerit points handed out for getting caught exceeding the speed limit?

Comment:
I speed on occasions. Hey - I went out on a ride on a Learner's permit and had the bike up to 130. I didn't get done. I'm lucky, but I knew the risks when I chose to do 130. *shrug* My choice. Don't wanna get the points? Don't speed ... simple.

Just because we choose to do something that is illegal, doesn't make it any less illegal, even if it is a nice straight road, nothing coming, nice clear visibility, perfectly safe at 320 Kmh, 111 is still 11k over the limit.

spudchucka
14th December 2004, 10:28
I tend to agree with Mike L on this, its sad fact that the person who this will most effect is the poor sod who gets pinged for 111kmh and over two yrs manages to accumalate enough points to loose his licence. Was this person a danger on the road. I doupt it. Where as the real problem, (the guy doing 160-200 and overtaking where ever he feels, you know the guy, he is also indestructible) Doesnt worry whether he has or hasnt got a licence. I dont mind the fine for 111kmh (though at the time I do get annoyed) But c'mon giving demerit points out for it, is a bit harsh, Why dont they lift the point at which the demerit points are given out for speeding, anything over 120 and I would gladly accept the fact "You got me" and take the points like a man. :o In the past 3 yrs I have had 2 tickets one for 111kmh and one for 116kmh. Both in a 100kmh zone. On a clear day. The 111kmh was even funny I was in a stream of traffic, I just happened to be the guy on the end. The officer attempted to give me a leaflet on the dangers of speeding. Im afraid I just laughed and gave it him back. I already had the ticket so no point being polite about it. Jumped into the cage and accelerated back up to 110kmh.
The majority of people who are aginst speed enforcement say that the problem is that it is centred around revenue collecting. Now you are suggesting that fining people is the way to go and that dishing out demerit points is over the top.

What would have the greater impact on getting the general motoring public to slow down, increased fines or increased demerit points and therefore a greater chance of losing your licence?

vifferman
14th December 2004, 10:32
What would have the greater impact on getting the general motoring public to slow down, increased fines or increased demerit points and therefore a greater chance of losing your licence?Probably points. Yeah, definitely points. I'd say the points, yeah.

You can skip out of paying fines, but the points are unavoidable, relentless, implacable, gnarsty.

Devil
14th December 2004, 10:37
Hey - I went out on a ride on a Learner's permit and had the bike up to 130. I didn't get done. I'm lucky, but I knew the risks when I chose to do 130.
I would just like to say, I had nothing to do with this, was not involved in such way or form. Didnt do it, nobody saw me do it, cant prove anything.

riffer
14th December 2004, 10:42
:Offtopic:

just as an aside - Biff Baff, what are you doing using my avatar? :wacko:

Biff
14th December 2004, 11:02
:Offtopic:

just as an aside - Biff Baff, what are you doing using my avatar? :wacko:

Sorry dude - I actually nicked it from a UK biking forum. Mine doesn't look as sexy as yours though as it's not animated.

Wrist duly slapped and currently looking for a replacement. :innocent:

2_SL0
14th December 2004, 11:17
Some Quick Questions:
Is 111kmh > 100Kmh?
Is 116kmh > 100kmh?
Was the speed limit 100kmh?
Are demerit points handed out for getting caught exceeding the speed limit?

Comment:
I speed on occasions. Hey - I went out on a ride on a Learner's permit and had the bike up to 130. I didn't get done. I'm lucky, but I knew the risks when I chose to do 130. *shrug* My choice. Don't wanna get the points? Don't speed ... simple.

Just because we choose to do something that is illegal, doesn't make it any less illegal, even if it is a nice straight road, nothing coming, nice clear visibility, perfectly safe at 320 Kmh, 111 is still 11k over the limit.


I agree, but you have missed my point. By all means hit my wallet if you have to for 111kmh. I just feel it targets the wrong person when you average joe ends up losing his licence for having collected speeding infringements for 111 kmh-120kmh within two years. Was this person a danger on the road, NO. I just feel that the fines should happily start at 111km. (I would rather they didnt, but wouldnt everyone) But the demerit points should kick a little higher.
I have no problem with either, I just dont feel it neccessary targets the right person, it more or less just pisses people off. If you get a ticket for 111kmh on a straight piece of road on a nice day, what are you going to think, "hmmm I was going to fast, I better slow down." If thats how you think, great your better than me. :niceone:

Yokai
14th December 2004, 11:35
I agree, but you have missed my point. By all means hit my wallet if you have to for 111kmh. I just feel it targets the wrong person when you average joe ends up losing his licence for having collected speeding infringements for 111 kmh-120kmh within two years.

sorry, but average Joe is consistently exceeding the speed limit by more than 10% - he deserves it. He knows as well as we do what the penalties are



Was this person a danger on the road, NO. I just feel that the fines should happily start at 111km. (I would rather they didnt, but wouldnt everyone) But the demerit points should kick a little higher.

I'd claim he was a danger on the road, because he wilfully exceeds the speed limit by more than 10% consistently. He just can't get it through his thick skull... Would you trust someone like that to drive you around? I wouldn't...


I have no problem with either, I just dont feel it neccessary targets the right person, it more or less just pisses people off. If you get a ticket for 111kmh on a straight piece of road on a nice day, what are you going to think, "hmmm I was going to fast, I better slow down." If thats how you think, great your better than me. :niceone:

Nah - I'm gonna be pissed off... hey - I got SERIOUSLY upset in the cage when I just got here and thought that the limit was 110 and got pulled for 113.... But really what we get most pissed of at is ourselves for not spotting the cop or taking reasonable precautions to avoid the speeding ticket...

Yup - I think "F*** that - I can drive better than that, and do, and that's unreasonable" but then sanity and rationality kick in and I think "Well - that's the law ... Stuffed up there didn't I"

It's a matter of perspective. There are people out there that shouldn't travel at 4kmh let alone 84 .... The speed limit is there for a reason - you (or I) choose to break it, then we deserve what the law says. *shrug*

2_SL0
14th December 2004, 20:08
I agree but my point is taking away the licence of someone who has realistically only exceeded the speed limit by a small percentage will not stop the person that I perceive as the real danger as (boyracer, hoon, NUT) will continue to drive, all you will do is antagonise (spelling, hehehe) the average joe. Personally a fine is a great deteritant as far as Im concerned but only up to 120kmh at which point the points system can kick in as well. Hey after that point it wouldnt worry me if it was 2 strikes and your gone (loss of licence for 3 months.) Plus a fine. I just feel if the average guy looses his licence for minor speed offences, that wont slow him down, it will just piss him off.
I had a quick scout around and found this:

In recent years the amount and the visibility of speed enforcement has increased. The increase in both types of speed infringement notices reflects a decrease in enforcement tolerances and a policy of issuing tickets rather than warnings. The advent of a dedicated State Highway Patrol has resulted in a sharp increase in non-camera speeding infringement notices, particularly to vehicles travelling at speeds between 111 and 120 km/h.

http://www.rsconference.com/pdf/RS030064.pdf?check=1

THis is from 2002.

I gladly except everytime I dip over the speed limit I may get a ticket. Just I feel at times the wrong particulars of speeding are being pushed on us. Speed kills no denying, but so does poorly built roading, drunk driver, poorly sign posted roads, bad driving habits. The list can go on.
As is stated above it is clear the LOW end of the exceeding the speed limit has been targeted, I imagine it still is.

Gixxer 4 ever
14th December 2004, 20:15
What would have the greater impact on getting the general motoring public to slow down, increased fines or increased demerit points and therefore a greater chance of losing your licence?
The points for me but my son who is studying money for him. So there you go.
Most people are frustrated with the lack of police action on non road crime. Then when they speed they get hit hard. Just the way it is. I came out swinging here from time to time but took me a while to figure out it was the lack of other policing that was the problem not the road tickets.

Yokai
14th December 2004, 20:23
I would say that minor infractions of the speed limit are to a certain extent unavoidable. I think that the big thing here is that 111kmh is 11% over the limit. The speed limit in this country is 100kmh, not 110 - that there is a "leeway" extended beyond that, is not there for us to take advantage of; rather it is to allow those minor infractions to be corrected by the driver/rider.

I'd rather see the 120 speed limit that is on US highways (west of the Mississippi only). But that isn't the point. I know that it is frustrating to get done for 111 or 113, but the point is that this is not only over the speed limit but also beyond the point where the driver/rider should have corrected.

These people that continuously travel at over 100 (+ their little bit on occasion) while picking up tickets deserve to lose their licences. They are irresponsible. It's like saying you shouldn't put someone in Jail for continuously stealing Moro bars over a period of 2 years when they have been cautioned lots of times. Of course you should - they are fscking irresponsible.

Now... am I irresponsible? Probably. Do I try to get away with stuff? Yes. But if I knew that I had a chance of losing my licence because of speeding and knowing that I only had 3 demerit points left on it would I speed? NO! I like to ride my bike, I like driving my car... If I got to that situation, I'd not go over 100 if I could help it. And I sure as heck would get back down to 100 as quickly as possible.

It's a matter of consideration - I'm not saying that someone should lose their licence the first time that they go over 100 or 110, what I'm saying is that if someone is stupid enough to keep doing it for 2 years and getting points, then they are too stupid to be trusted to drive/ride for a while, and deserve to be seriously punished.

This hypothetical Average Joe must be some kind of moron if he can't count the points on his licence and the number of months he has to drive without exceeding the 100 kmh speed limit.

If the speed limit were 110, I'd agree fully with your points, JB

MikeL
14th December 2004, 20:37
It's like saying you shouldn't put someone in Jail for continuously stealing Moro bars over a period of 2 years when they have been cautioned lots of times.

Hmm... incarceration for recidivist chocolate bar thieves...

Some might say there are ways of dealing with such problems more appropriate to the gravity of the offence...

MikeL
14th December 2004, 20:41
The advent of a dedicated State Highway Patrol has resulted in a sharp increase in non-camera speeding infringement notices, particularly to vehicles travelling at speeds between 111 and 120 km/h.


... which must have contributed significantly to the drop in average speeds, since most speeding is likely to be concentrated in this range. What, I wonder, is the change in the number of people travelling in excess of 120?

2_SL0
14th December 2004, 20:44
My god is it not 110kmh. OMG, thats what I had wrong. Im glad I dont live in Yokai world. Because on the open road I will reg sit @ 110-115kmh. (in my cage) From what you have said I deserve to loose my licence. Oh and by the way I know exactly how many demerit points I have. It should be a big fat 0.
Yokai have you driven much on the open road in NZ? The average speed people are driving at on a nice day in light traffic is 110-120kmh. Im sorry If I dont see your point but I hazzard a guess that on a nice day in light traffic people driving at a orderly speed of 110-120kmh does not cause a accident, there has to be something else that triggers the accident, I.E the nutter doing the mad run overtaking, or the loony tune on the wrong side of the road on the corner.
Yes I also understand that @ 110kmh more damage is done to the person than @ 100kmh.

As a guess Mike L I imagine the guy who reg travels above 120kmh doesnt give a rats arse, because he Mr Industructable.
That was in 2002 so I would love to see if it has had a effect on the average speed on the open road. I would hazzard a guess that it wont of. But maybe Spud or Scumdog could enlighten us on that as it is more their area than mine :spudwave:

Yokai
14th December 2004, 20:59
Hmm... incarceration for recidivist chocolate bar thieves...

Some might say there are ways of dealing with such problems more appropriate to the gravity of the offence...
Yeah - you're right. Sorry - what that should read is:

It's like not punishing someone to the proper extent of the law for stealing Moro bars over a 2 year period when they've had continual cautions etc.

But hey - if it was MY moro bar - I'd have them Hung Drawn and Quartered... and boiled... chopped up into little bits and ... and ... jumped on! with boots until until until they couldn't take any more!

(thanks DNA)

2_SL0
14th December 2004, 21:04
Mental note, DONT TAKE YOKAI MORO BAR. (Crumbs what would he do if it was a MARS bar) :spudwave:

MSTRS
14th December 2004, 21:05
It's a matter of perspective. There are people out there that shouldn't travel at 4kmh let alone 84 .... The speed limit is there for a reason - you (or I) choose to break it, then we deserve what the law says. *shrug*[/QUOTE]
Oh yeah.....time to fine those dorks or get them off the road. Is it possible to put a dollar figure on the havoc they cause? I mean, I only speed to get them behind me so I won't be introduced to their rear bumpr when they stop to let a hedgehog cross the road :mad:

Yokai
14th December 2004, 21:17
:calm:


My god is it not 110kmh. OMG, thats what I had wrong. Im glad I dont live in Yokai world. Because on the open road I will reg sit @ 110-115kmh. (in my cage) From what you have said I deserve to loose my licence.

From what I said, it is only if you continually do it and have lots of demerits for the same thing.



Oh and by the way I know exactly how many demerit points I have. It should be a big fat 0.

Well make up your mind - do you know exactly or are you hazarding a guess at 0? I'm betting that you have 0. cool! I too have 0. snap! I like this game!


Yokai have you driven much on the open road in NZ?
Yup - I like driving. I like riding. especially like going to places on the Coromandel Peninsula... been here 2 years - love it.



The average speed people are driving at on a nice day in light traffic is 110-120kmh.

Your point seems to be "everyone else is doing it, why can't I?". My point is that this is breaking the law. I did admit to doing it myself - it's my choice... I know the penalties as well as most people (but probably not well enough :-) )



Im sorry If I dont see your point but I hazzard a guess that on a nice day in light traffic people driving at a orderly speed of 110-120kmh does not cause a accident, there has to be something else that triggers the accident, I.E the nutter doing the mad run overtaking, or the loony tune on the wrong side of the road on the corner.
Yes I also understand that @ 110kmh more damage is done to the person than @ 100kmh.

I wasn't saying anything about whether the driving was dangerous or caused accidents. What I was saying was this:

The law states 100kmh is the speed limit.
The law states that you get demerit points and a fine for exceeding the speed limit
There is a discretionary 10kmh allowed above the speed limit (I don't know if that is a law-based thing or a police/government based decision ... Spud? )
If someon is doing 110.000001kmh they should get points and fine.
If they continually exceed the 110kmh then they should continually get points and fine
If they accrue enough points they should lose their licence.
simple.
Got nothing to do with whether they are the safest driver in the world or a complete fscking hoon. Its a LEGAL thing.


As a guess Mike L I imagine the guy who reg travels above 120kmh doesnt give a rats arse, because he Mr Industructable.

Why should 120 be any worse than 119? or 119 worse than 118 etc...


That was in 2002 so I would love to see if it has had a effect on the average speed on the open road. I would hazzard a guess that it wont of. But maybe Spud or Scumdog could enlighten us on that as it is more their area than mine :spudwave:

Would be interesting. But now we are drawing inferences between speed and accidents, NOT a line drawn by law as to how fast we are legally allowed to ride/drive.

Oh - if you hadn't guessed by now, I do exceed the speed limit... on regular occasions... if I get nicked, then fine.... I pays my money and I takes my choice... I like my world - it's got people like you in it... they ride bikes, and I like that.

2_SL0
14th December 2004, 21:25
OK OK , you can have the damn Moro bar back, but Im keeping the Mars bar. (my precious)

Im glad you are able to see things so black and white. Im afraid in my world their are alot of different shades in between.
I think the 110kmh discretion thing is just a personal choice of the officer as I believe I saw somewhere you may recieve a ticket for being 1kmh over the limit, (in theory) I believe you gain 10 demerit points for 1-10kmh over. However I do feel speed + tickets + accidents is exactly what it is all about. If speed did not equal accidents then why would we have tickets, aaaaaa revenue collecting. Its become so clear, I see it is black and white.

**R1**
14th December 2004, 21:27
YOU SHOULD HAVE JUST DONE A RUNNER
yeah i do em all the time, not that i go out to do it but i love riding fast and hate tickets, so its the only option, the day they get cars that will catch my bike will be the day i stop riding :crybaby:

Yokai
14th December 2004, 21:28
OK OK , you can have the damn Moro bar back, but Im keeping the Mars bar. (my precious) - Hey! this Moro's been shaken - it's more of a juddered bar .....

Sorry. ;-) I need a ride - my bike is STILL IN THE SHOP DAMMIT!

Lou? How long to get a slipping clutch fixed on a Yamaha SRV250?

WINJA
14th December 2004, 21:39
yeah i do em all the time, not that i go out to do it but i love riding fast and hate tickets, so its the only option, the day they get cars that will catch my bike will be the day i stop riding :crybaby:
WELL YOUR ON AN R1 , SO YOULL BE ALRIGHT FOR A WHILE AS LONG AS YOU CHOOSE YOUR BATTLES.GENERALLY I DONT SPEED WHERE COPS ARE , I GO DEAD SLOW ROUND THE CITY AND SCHOOLS, I DONT SPEED DOWN THE MOTORWAY, I ONLY SPEED IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE , AND THEN FARK DO I SPEED

Teflon
15th December 2004, 05:11
yeah i do em all the time, not that i go out to do it but i love riding fast and hate tickets, so its the only option, the day they get cars that will catch my bike will be the day i stop riding :crybaby:

We still have a disavantage, they have radios.

Sniper
15th December 2004, 06:08
We still have a disavantage, they have radios.

But we have an Advantage, we have brains. Except for spud, he has a brain too. :eek:

MATT DAMON

spudchucka
15th December 2004, 08:32
As is stated above it is clear the LOW end of the exceeding the speed limit has been targeted, I imagine it still is.
The goal is to reduce the national mean speed, thats why they actively target speeds between 111 - 120, because these are the amounts that most average drivers exceed the speed limit by. Getting these people, (the bulk of the NZ driving public) to slow down to under 110 is the primary motivation for todays speed enforcement policies.

There will always be the upper percentile that drive without any regard to road rules or other road users, no policies, demerit points or fines will change these peoples attitudes.

So if the 85% of resonable road users are behaving themselves,sticking to the speed limit and driving with courtesy towards other road users then it is reasonable to expect that this will have an impact on the national road toll.


Re Demerit Points:

As I see it, anyone who collects enough demerit points to lose their licence over two years can't be a prudent driver. If they were they would be mindful of the fact that their licence is on the line if the continue to speed and would drive appropriately.

What about warnings? If you take the first ticket as a warning that you will lose your licence if you continue to drive in this manner, then you could say that warnings do work. However it has been proven, not just in this country, that verbal warnings do not work. Drivers tend to slow down for an average of about 8 - 10 k's and then just continue driving as they did before.

spudchucka
15th December 2004, 08:34
The points for me but my son who is studying money for him. So there you go.
Most people are frustrated with the lack of police action on non road crime. Then when they speed they get hit hard. Just the way it is. I came out swinging here from time to time but took me a while to figure out it was the lack of other policing that was the problem not the road tickets.
I agree that there is an obvious imbalance. I have no problem with the current levels of road policing, I'd just like to see lots more resources pumped into general policing.

spudchucka
15th December 2004, 08:40
What, I wonder, is the change in the number of people travelling in excess of 120?
It is much harder to catch people in the +20kph bracket today than it was only a couple of years ago. This is because the national mean speeds have lowered. You still get rouges who travel at whatever speed they like but these people are often well above the +20kph zone and are usually the ones that fail to stop etc.

spudchucka
15th December 2004, 08:48
As a guess Mike L I imagine the guy who reg travels above 120kmh doesnt give a rats arse, because he Mr Industructable.
That was in 2002 so I would love to see if it has had a effect on the average speed on the open road. I would hazzard a guess that it wont of. But maybe Spud or Scumdog could enlighten us on that as it is more their area than mine :spudwave:
Have a look here: http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/research/speed1.html

Remember that these are mean speeds. To get a mean speed of 113, as in the 85th percentile graph, there has to be a hell of a lot of drivers who are travelling well above 100kph.

What is interesting is that there is an overall trend towards lower mean speeds, which has to be a good thing for road safety.

spudchucka
15th December 2004, 08:53
yeah i do em all the time, not that i go out to do it but i love riding fast and hate tickets, so its the only option, the day they get cars that will catch my bike will be the day i stop riding :crybaby:
Everyone.....meet the 85th percentile!

ajturbo
15th December 2004, 08:54
It is much harder to catch people in the +20kph bracket today than it was only a couple of years ago. This is because the national mean speeds have lowered. You still get rouges who travel at whatever speed they like but these people are often well above the +20kph zone and are usually the ones that fail to stop etc.

shit NOW you tell us...so what you are saying here is that the other day when i was sooooo very nice to :Police: for stopping ..i didn't need to?
i was doing 128.......he said..... :killingme






na man i was in no postion to do a runner,
i had luke on the back ..........oh and the fuel light had just turned on.......NOT saying that the thouhgt didn't cross my mind

PeteThePom
15th December 2004, 21:56
Apart from the fact failed to notice a cop and couldn't slow down in time to avoid losing your license. So obviously you weren't paying that much attention and didn't have that much control.
OK Mr Smartarse!
1: He was in an un-marked car, so I'd have had to spot his epatulettes to realise which would of meant I WASN'T paying attention to the road, not wise at those speeds.

2: At that speed i would need to spot him a long way off to adjust my speed appropriatley, bearing point 1 above, tell me do you ride your bike whilst looking through binoculars?

3: If I didn't have that much control how come I'm sitting here typing this and not pushing up daisies?

4:Constructive criticism I can take, pointless comments are just a waste of my time, come talk to me when you know what your talking about!

PeteThePom
15th December 2004, 21:59
Some Quick Questions:
Is 111kmh > 100Kmh?
Is 116kmh > 100kmh?
Was the speed limit 100kmh?
Are demerit points handed out for getting caught exceeding the speed limit?

Comment:
I speed on occasions. Hey - I went out on a ride on a Learner's permit and had the bike up to 130. I didn't get done. I'm lucky, but I knew the risks when I chose to do 130. *shrug* My choice. Don't wanna get the points? Don't speed ... simple.

Just because we choose to do something that is illegal, doesn't make it any less illegal, even if it is a nice straight road, nothing coming, nice clear visibility, perfectly safe at 320 Kmh, 111 is still 11k over the limit.
So using your rules, if I come across a truck broken down blocking the road on a piece of road covered with 'no passing' lines I just sit and wait for the truck to be moved out of the way??? Do you understand the word discretion?

PeteThePom
15th December 2004, 22:28
First, none of the comments I make here are personal, OK? Good!

Now then, this is the problem I have with speed limits...........
SPEED DOES NOT KILL! No really it doesn't, if it did then I should have expired as soon as I breached the 100MPH limit..........yes, it is silly isn't it.

SPEED DOES NOT KILL............

HARSH DECELERATION KILLS........

HARSH DECELERATION is caused by hitting something else, that something else may be a piece of the countryside or another vehicle.

Either of which has been hit/ has hit due to 'human error' caused by a 'miscalculation' be it, "yes I can get round this corner on a wet and windy day at 100mph" or "I can overtake this long line of traffic in my clapped out Familia as we crest the brow of this hill" etc, etc

There is NO research that proves that GOING FASTER means you are MORE LIKELY to CRASH....there IS research that shows that IF you CRASH, the HIGHER the SPEED the MORE LIKELY you are to be CRITICALLY INJURED OR KILLED.....

Do you see what I am getting at?

SPEED DOES NOT KILL...............

BUT IT'S AN EASY TARGET FOR THE POWERS THAT BE seen to be doing something about a percieved problem(and perception is reality, as we all know...for instance, if the market percieves that a property is worth $1M then it is the reality regardless of the real reality or the reality of the owner)

If you need an example?....the autobahns in Germany!
NO SPEED LIMITS, RELATIVELY LOW ACCIDENT RATES


THE REAL ANSWER IS better driver education and understanding of what is a stupid thing to do, like overtaking on a no passing strip at a 160kph in front of an un-marked police car!

PS:As my UK license had expired, I couldn't have it suspended(you cant suspend what you don't have) so instead I was done for driving whilst unlicensed. On Monday I sat my theory test and got my Kiwi drivers license...result, only off the road for a day.

Thanks to the nice policeman who turned up at my house to tell me all of this and give me my license back, he is a star.

AND YES, THE SUN DOES SHINE OUT OF MY ARSE!!

marty
15th December 2004, 22:30
actually, the law says:



(6)No driver at or approaching any portion of a roadway where the controlling authority has marked a no-passing line in accordance with regulation 110 hereof (being a line applying to traffic moving in the direction in which he is moving) shall pass or attempt to pass any vehicle (other than a bicycle) moving in the same direction (emphasis added by me) within the length of roadway upon which that line is marked until he reaches the further end of the no-passing line, unless throughout the passing movement he keeps his vehicle wholly to the left of the no-passing line.


so, if the vehcile is stopped, you are perfectly entitled to cross the no-pass lines. if the vehicle (truck/tactor/pajero etc) is travelling very slowly, then discretion is the issue.

PeteThePom
15th December 2004, 23:11
actually, the law says:
unless throughout the passing movement he keeps his vehicle wholly to the left of the no-passing line. ............................edited................ ..so, if the vehcile is stopped, you are perfectly entitled to cross the no-pass lines. if the vehicle (truck/tactor/pajero etc) is travelling very slowly, then discretion is the issue.
So point 1, if I don't cross the lines I can still pass AND discretion is required!!!
So no discretion in doing it right in front of Mr Plod!!

2_SL0
16th December 2004, 05:17
Yokai, give me back my Moro bar, Ill swap the Mars bar for the Moro. :puke:

marty
16th December 2004, 06:26
So point 1, if I don't cross the lines I can still pass AND discretion is required!!!
So no discretion in doing it right in front of Mr Plod!!
sorry pete, i don't get where you're coming from. if you don't cross the line, there's no issue. if the vehicle is stopped, you can cross the line . if it is moving, and you do cross the no-pass line, technically you are breaking the law, however the cop has discretion as to consequence. in my experience, for overtaking slow moving trucks, as long as there is 100m visibility throghout the move, there is no problem - the 100m test is the significant safety issue.

Bonez
16th December 2004, 06:46
Even better - don't speed, get bored, turn to drink and drugs, beat the wife, get dovorced and be forced to live the rest of your life in a cardboard box in the gutter - or even worse join the H.P!! :done:Hey that's a good idea. Think of allll the nice KBers one will meet. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm what is that ol saying. Oh, yes- If you can't beat them, join them.

scumdog
16th December 2004, 08:23
OK Mr Smartarse!
1: He was in an un-marked car, so I'd have had to spot his epatulettes to realise which would of meant I WASN'T paying attention to the road, not wise at those speeds.

2: At that speed i would need to spot him a long way off to adjust my speed appropriatley, bearing point 1 above, tell me do you ride your bike whilst looking through binoculars?

3: If I didn't have that much control how come I'm sitting here typing this and not pushing up daisies?

4:Constructive criticism I can take, pointless comments are just a waste of my time, come talk to me when you know what your talking about!

Did you REALLY need to risk your licence by cranking up to that speed? If it was to get past the truck then maybe you could have left it until you had more room eh?

YOU were speeding - you pay, what's your problem? Show me in the road code where it says "You may exceed the speed limit while crossing the no-passing line as long as you are overtaking a very slow truck" and I might have some sympathy for you.
Harden up, you screwed up and got caught, pay up and shut up.

BTW, in reference to somebody elses comment, I did a 170km trip with a prisoner the other day and left the radar on for the whole trip, never saw any speed over 110kph and it was at night so don't say 'they must have seen you'. ( I realise the speeders with detectors would have been alerted but they are in the minority).
Kind of makes a myth that 'everybody' is doing 115 - 120kph.

Devil
16th December 2004, 08:26
Kind of makes a myth that 'everybody' is doing 115 - 120kph.
Agreed. When im out on the open road (in the cage) I sit at a constant 108ish km/h (+- 2km/h) and im passing 95% of the traffic

Yokai
16th December 2004, 09:29
So using your rules, if I come across a truck broken down blocking the road on a piece of road covered with 'no passing' lines I just sit and wait for the truck to be moved out of the way???

Ummm - what has that to do with the questions I asked? or speeding?

Do you understand the word discretion?
Ummmm - yes - I'm the one that posted the definition in this thread. (post #48).

I am having a hard time figuring the point of your post. But hey! its a free world. (personally I'd go round the obstruction ... but then again, as I said before - I speed... no accounting for the choices I make...)

Yokai
16th December 2004, 09:30
Yokai, give me back my Moro bar, Ill swap the Mars bar for the Moro. :puke:
Eeeeeeewwwwwwwww....... I'll buy you a Moro on the next ride we are both on! m'kay?

PeteThePom
16th December 2004, 12:36
sorry pete, i don't get where you're coming from. if you don't cross the line, there's no issue. if the vehicle is stopped, you can cross the line . if it is moving, and you do cross the no-pass line, technically you are breaking the law, however the cop has discretion as to consequence. in my experience, for overtaking slow moving trucks, as long as there is 100m visibility throghout the move, there is no problem - the 100m test is the significant safety issue.
Sorry, maybe I should have been more specific. There was plenty more than 100m visibility after my manouver, I accept that TECHNICALLY I was breaking the law but the REALITY was that is was not, in my opinion, a dangerous manouver, as I could see to the bloody horizon! I'm not talking about the speed here, just the overtake, interestingly in the UK, the road code states that you should overtake as quickly and safely as possible...something to do with being on the wrong side of the road is potentially dangerous, so therefore it is acceptable to speed in order to complete the manouver and thus spend as little time on the wrong side of the road as possible!

PeteThePom
16th December 2004, 12:44
Did you REALLY need to risk your licence by cranking up to that speed? If it was to get past the truck then maybe you could have left it until you had more room eh?

YOU were speeding - you pay, what's your problem? Show me in the road code where it says "You may exceed the speed limit while crossing the no-passing line as long as you are overtaking a very slow truck" and I might have some sympathy for you.
Harden up, you screwed up and got caught, pay up and shut up.

BTW, in reference to somebody elses comment, I did a 170km trip with a prisoner the other day and left the radar on for the whole trip, never saw any speed over 110kph and it was at night so don't say 'they must have seen you'. ( I realise the speeders with detectors would have been alerted but they are in the minority).
Kind of makes a myth that 'everybody' is doing 115 - 120kph.
I don't have a problem with the fine or the points, yes I screwed up and I accept the penalties, I just think that placing MY entire livelihood in jeopardy because of a mere(and this is how I view it) speeding offence is heavy handed, do you think that someone should have their entire life go down the toilet because of a speeding offence?

I notice that although you quoted me, you didn't address any of the points I raised.............................oh and I wasn't cranking up to that speed to pass the truck, I was just enjoying myself! Sorry, I forgot we are not allowed to do that in this day and age!! And yes I am being sarcastic, to save you the bother of replying along the lines of risking other road users lives which I accept is a valid point and not one that I disagree with.

PeteThePom
16th December 2004, 12:46
Ummm - what has that to do with the questions I asked? or speeding?

Ummmm - yes - I'm the one that posted the definition in this thread. (post #48).

I am having a hard time figuring the point of your post. But hey! its a free world. (personally I'd go round the obstruction ... but then again, as I said before - I speed... no accounting for the choices I make...)
I was referencing your comment about the law being the law(speed limit is 100kph), the point I was trying to make is this, just cos it's the law, doesn't make it right..............

spudchucka
16th December 2004, 13:05
Now then, this is the problem I have with speed limits...........
SPEED DOES NOT KILL! No really it doesn't, if it did then I should have expired as soon as I breached the 100MPH limit..........yes, it is silly isn't it.

Now see thats the problem you are having, the speed limit in NZ is 100Kph, not 100Mph.


SPEED DOES NOT KILL............

HARSH DECELERATION KILLS........

HARSH DECELERATION is caused by hitting something else, that something else may be a piece of the countryside or another vehicle.
In order to experience harsh deceleration one or more vehicles would first have to be travelling at reasonably high velocity, therefore, in a discussion about road safety, crashes and injuries, you can't look at speed and harsh deceleration as unconnected issues.


Either of which has been hit/ has hit due to 'human error' caused by a 'miscalculation' A miscalculation such as overestimating the safe speed at which a corner could be negotiated. This could be at 30kph or 230kph, if the speed was too great for the conditions then I'm afraid speed was a factor if not an absolute cause.


there IS research that shows that IF you CRASH, the HIGHER the SPEED the MORE LIKELY you are to be CRITICALLY INJURED OR KILLED.....

Do you see what I am getting at?

SPEED DOES NOT KILL...............You just contradicted yourself! Speed is directly linked to trauma and death experienced as a result of traffic crashes. By the way I believe there is research to suggest that higher speeds increase the likelyhood of crashing, if I find it I'll post it.


BUT IT'S AN EASY TARGET FOR THE POWERS THAT BE seen to be doing something about a percieved problem(and perception is reality, as we all know...for instance, if the market percieves that a property is worth $1M then it is the reality regardless of the real reality or the reality of the owner)
And thats a common arguement used by people who are looking for any reason to justify travelling at whatever speed they feel like.


If you need an example?....the autobahns in Germany!
NO SPEED LIMITS, RELATIVELY LOW ACCIDENT RATES
And when they do have a crash it is usually a fucken horror smash. Why? Something to do with speed perhaps? The fact that the autobahns do not have oncoming traffic crossing over the centre line has a lot to do with lower crash rates.


THE REAL ANSWER IS better driver education and understanding of what is a stupid thing to do, like overtaking on a no passing strip at a 160kph in front of an un-marked police car!
Overtaking on double yellows at 160kph in full view of a police officer. Its hard to get much more stupid than that! So what "driver education" programme are you signing up for in order to ensure the rest of the law abiding motoring public of NZ that you will not be so stupid in the future?

spudchucka
16th December 2004, 13:10
I don't have a problem with the fine or the points, yes I screwed up and I accept the penalties, I just think that placing MY entire livelihood in jeopardy because of a mere(and this is how I view it) speeding offence is heavy handed, do you think that someone should have their entire life go down the toilet because of a speeding offence?
As a road user it is up to you to know the consequences of breaking traffic laws. If your livelihood requires that you hold a drivers licence then you are a bloody fool to put yourself in the position where you could lose it, (your licence).

Try taking some ownership for your own actions!

igor
16th December 2004, 13:32
Ido you think that someone should have their entire life go down the toilet because of a speeding offence?
.

its always some elses fault for some F*#kwits mistake.

i c the maoris up north don't think they got a fair go after they do a deal on there land 40 years later and want more. yeah right

the dude that killed his baby it was Chch hospitals fault cause they didn't give him a counsellor. yeah right

Irena is missing. its the Polices fault cause they should of sent a car that was 30 mins away . yeah right

I was riding my bike and got zapped at high speed, my life has gone down the toilet, its the Polices fault , yeah right

vifferman
16th December 2004, 13:37
As a road user it is up to you to know the consequences of breaking traffic laws. If your livelihood requires that you hold a drivers licence then you are a bloody fool to put yourself in the position where you could lose it, (your licence).

Try taking some ownership for your own actions!
Yeah! Suck it up, Whinger!

2_SL0
16th December 2004, 13:42
Ok, calm people caaaallllllllm. Lok Yokai pmed me and said he will shout everyone a Moro bar. So its all going to be A O K. :niceone:

vifferman
16th December 2004, 13:45
Ok, calm people caaaallllllllm. Lok Yokai pmed me and said he will shout everyone a Moro bar. So its all going to be A O K. :niceone:Kewl! Gettim to PM me one.

igor
16th December 2004, 13:50
Yeah! Suck it up, Whinger!

hes aloud to be a whinger, hes a POM for christ sake

its in there jeans

look at all the unions, run by POMs

if they ant whinging they ant happy

he could of got off the ticket if he had told the cop he had heard tere was queue in the next town and he was in a hurry to join it.

thats what poms also do, join queues and whing.

they also train spot thats what they also do, so if ya told him a really rare train was coming and ya was gunna queue and whing in the line he would of probably let u off and given u a get out of free jail card for next time

but ya didn't tll him so its your his fault ya didn't so, to bad

2_SL0
16th December 2004, 14:06
Kewl! Gettim to PM me one.

Well I cant because he told me to keep it a secret. Ive already blabbed so I proberly wont get mine. But the rest of you should be fiine. Just dont let on that I told you when you ask him for your Moro.

Yokai
16th December 2004, 15:43
Ok, calm people caaaallllllllm. Lok Yokai pmed me and said he will shout everyone a Moro bar. So its all going to be A O K. :niceone:
:Oi: I said You next time we are on a ride together! Don't be giving my Moro bars away!


Just because it's the law doesn't make it right...
Ummmmm - yes it does. Legal right is defined by society's law makers ... generally it falls in line with moral right, but not necessarily. We've only been talking about Legal right...

:spudwhat:

Ho hum

MikeL
16th December 2004, 20:09
: Legal right is defined by society's law makers ... generally it falls in line with moral right, but not necessarily. We've only been talking about Legal right...


Exactly. That's the whole point here.

Some people are saying that the law's the law, we know the consequences of breaking it and therefore have no right to complain.

Others are trying to say that the law or its enforcement is unfair: how else do unfair laws get changed unless people complain?

One man's whingeing is another's legitimate grievance...

spudchucka
16th December 2004, 20:21
Exactly. That's the whole point here.

Some people are saying that the law's the law, we know the consequences of breaking it and therefore have no right to complain.

Others are trying to say that the law or its enforcement is unfair: how else do unfair laws get changed unless people complain?

One man's whingeing is another's legitimate grievance...
Burglars that get sent to jail think it is unfair....
Paedofiles don't think there is anything wrong with rooting small boys....
Drug dealers think that hocking pot to school kids is a legitimate way of making a living.....

They all whinge when they get caught and punished although they all knew thats exactly what would happen to them if they got caught.

Certain things are made illegal because society as a whole has said that the individuals right to do as he pleases in these instances is less important than the need to prevent the harm caused by the behaviour that they wish to indulge in.

One mans harmless indulgence is another mans death and destruction.

It works both ways Mike and society has detremined that we should all travel no faster than 100kph on the open road and nor should we overtake on double yellow lines. Those who think it unfair should by all means campaign against it but don't whinge about it because you all know the consequences.

marty
16th December 2004, 21:52
If you need an example?....the autobahns in Germany!
NO SPEED LIMITS, RELATIVELY LOW ACCIDENT RATES

!!

so,,,,,,presuming you have driven on the german autobahn, which road in new zealand emulates just 10 feet of said autobahn? i'm sure it wasn't the road you were overtaking a truck at 160ish k on the wrong side of no passing lines while you were out having a fang, being in no particular rush to get anywhere...

marty
16th December 2004, 21:58
if anyone cares, i got this from here>>>>> http://international.fhwa.dot.gov/Pdfs/converted_to_html/scanreports/comp/chapter2.htm



it actually makes for intersting reading. how about we try emulating some of their habits?



.................................................. .................................................. .





Safety Program Elements and Activities
Examples of safety program elements and activities in Germany are listed below. This list includes only examples of particular interest to scanning team members and should not be considered comprehensive.

Seatbelt use is required in Germany, and almost all drivers and passengers use seatbelts. Usage is about 98 percent along the autobahn, or freeway, and about 94 percent along rural roadways.
German legislation limits the acceptable blood alcohol content of a driver to 0.05. It is also a traffic offense to drive under the influence of drugs or to use a cell phone while driving. Use of radar and laser detectors is also illegal.
A license to drive can be acquired at age 18 in Germany, and the cost of obtaining a license is more than U.S. $1,000. Several changes in the education and instruction of drivers have been suggested, including graduated licensing. A number of young driver education and awareness campaigns have been initiated.
Speed management is an important part of highway safety programs in Germany. Speed limits have been instituted on some parts of the autobahn system. For example, the Rheinland-Pfalz highway authority has attained a 25 percent reduction in crashes on selected autobahn sections totaling about 90 miles by posting 80 miles-per-hour (130 kilometers-per-hour) speed limits and implementing no-passing restrictions on trucks.
Variable message light-emitting-diode (LED) signs have been used along segments of roadway near construction and locations where congestion or crashes often occur. These LED signs indicate the status of the roadway lanes and regulate the speed in each lane. For example, speeds may be reduced gradually in lanes approaching a congested area. Signs in some areas indicate a more appropriate route for the driver.
Traffic calming measures and speed cameras (photo radar) are also used in speed management. An example is use of gateways at interfaces from rural to urban areas. Use of this type of device was addressed by a previous scan study. In some German states, all speed enforcement is now accomplished with speed cameras.
Collisions with trees result in 33 percent of the driving fatalities that occur in Germany. A significant amount of research has been done in this area and several recommendations have been generated to reduce vehicle-tree crashes. The arguments against removing trees along roadways in Germany, however, are the same as those in the United States.· Trees and other visualization tactics are used to guide drivers to the existence and location of critical decision points, such as intersections, curves, and entry points to urban areas.
The Germans have changed some rural two-lane roadways to the 2+1 cross section, which has a passing lane on alternating sides of the roadway. Unlike the Swedish, however, they do not use cable median barriers on these roadways.
An experimental lighted in-pavement lane marking for a ramp diverge has been applied in at least one location in Germany. Authorities believe it has been effective in increasing the capacity and safety of this diverge area, and may have potential at other locations.
Germany has initiated a proactive road safety audit program. Audits will be conducted by independent, well-trained investigators, and will be completed during a project's planning, initial design, detailed design, and pre-opening stages. The auditor will interact with the project's owning jurisdiction, which will make the decision to accept or reject any safety audit recommendations. Forty-eight audits have been completed in a pilot project, 34 of them in the state of Brandenburg. Road safety audits were the focus of a previous scanning study.

inlinefour
16th December 2004, 23:56
I have upset several people who are adament that their views are correct and that I am wrong, including Marty. Yes the law is the law, but in some instances people like to try to manipulate the definitions of the law to justify their own actions, like here. Yes I sympathise with your problems with work, but if the law (which can be pathetic when handing out sentences for more serious crimes) does not provide penalties as a result of breaking the laws, what sort of shite country would we be living in??? :headbang:

inlinefour
17th December 2004, 02:31
I have upset several people who are adament that their views are correct and that I am wrong, including Marty. Yes the law is the law, but in some instances people like to try to manipulate the definitions of the law to justify their own actions, like here. Yes I sympathise with your problems with work, but if the law (which can be pathetic when handing out sentences for more serious crimes) does not provide penalties as a result of breaking the laws, what sort of shite country would we be living in??? :headbang:

It is a pretty shite country when it comes to this issue. I must be getting tired, time to go and wake someone else up :eek:

rodgerd
17th December 2004, 06:53
it actually makes for intersting reading. how about we try emulating some of their habits?


Speed management is an important part of highway safety programs in Germany. Speed limits have been instituted on some parts of the autobahn system. For example, the Rheinland-Pfalz highway authority has attained a 25 percent reduction in crashes on selected autobahn sections totaling about 90 miles by posting 80 miles-per-hour (130 kilometers-per-hour) speed limits and implementing no-passing restrictions on trucks.
Traffic calming measures and speed cameras (photo radar) are also used in speed management. An example is use of gateways at interfaces from rural to urban areas. Use of this type of device was addressed by a previous scan study. In some German states, all speed enforcement is now accomplished with speed cameras.


So you want to lower speed limits and use more speed cameras?

MikeL
17th December 2004, 08:36
One mans harmless indulgence is another mans death and destruction.

It works both ways Mike and society has detremined that we should all travel no faster than 100kph on the open road and nor should we overtake on double yellow lines. Those who think it unfair should by all means campaign against it but don't whinge about it because you all know the consequences.

I doubt that comparing speeding to burglary, paedophilia and drug-dealing is a valid argument. Equating the latter crimes with "harmless indulgence" seems a bit strange: it can I imagine fairly easily be proven that these people's actions have caused serious harm, and if the perpetrators can't or won't see that then that is the result of their twisted thinking. Trying to convince me that doing 111kph on the open road is "wrong" in the same sense as the examples you have quoted is absurd. I can see both qualitative and quantitative differences: qualitative in the absence of criminal intent or at the very least reckless disregard for consequences; quantitative in the degree of actual harm done to any individual or to society as a whole.

I don't dispute the necessity for road rules, including speed limits. I think that the penalties for breaking them, particularly the demerit points, are excessive considering the "harm" done.
To say that a person who accumulates 5 lots of 20 points for doing 11 kph over the limit in each case deserves to lose his licence for sheer stupidity or wilful disobedience undercuts the whole basis of a justice system. In the first place it should be up to a judge to determine penalties, taking into account individual circumstances, and secondly the punishment should be for the actual harm or potential harm done, not for being stupid or forgetful or even rebellious.
An automatic, inflexible "3-strikes you're out" type of system is bound to lead to unfairness...

"Society has determined that stealing a sheep is unacceptable. The law is the law. You knew the law, and therefore the consequences of your action. You will hang. Stop whingeing..."

I should point out that I am happy to be labelled a woolly-minded liberal with totally unrealistic ideals. You need to have a few of us in society.

rodgerd
17th December 2004, 09:06
I doubt that comparing speeding to burglary, paedophilia and drug-dealing is a valid argument. Equating the latter crimes with "harmless indulgence" seems a bit strange:

Why? The leading cause for death for men 18-3-something is car crashes.

vifferman
17th December 2004, 09:20
Why? The leading cause for death for men 18-3-something is car crashes.That doesn't mean that every time someone speeds they will crash and die. It also doesn't mean that the solution to a high road toll is to hand out as many speeding tickets as possible. That is a band-aid solution to an over-simplified perception of what the problem is; i.e., the biggest causes of road deaths/injuries are drink-driving and speed, so let's hammer those. In reality, the reason for the high road toll lies in attitudes.

The real answer lies in improving the attitudes and skills of drivers in general, but this is perceived as too difficult. Furthermore, unlike hammering speeding, it requires a consistent and effective long-term plan, with no return on investment, so it aint gonna happen.

Biff
17th December 2004, 09:22
yeah i do em all the time, not that i go out to do it but i love riding fast and hate tickets, so its the only option, the day they get cars that will catch my bike will be the day i stop riding :crybaby:

Aaron - you're not the guy I saw getting chased down Moorhouse about 2-3 weeks ago are you? I also think I know where you work (not trying to spin you out and I'm not a cop!!). I won't write it here though - cos big brother might be watching. Testing, testing 1-2.

rodgerd
17th December 2004, 13:58
That doesn't mean that every time someone speeds they will crash and die. It also doesn't mean that the solution to a high road toll is to hand out as many speeding tickets as possible. That is a band-aid solution to an over-simplified perception of what the problem is; i.e., the biggest causes of road deaths/injuries are drink-driving and speed, so let's hammer those. In reality, the reason for the high road toll lies in attitudes.

The real answer lies in improving the attitudes and skills of drivers in general, but this is perceived as too difficult. Furthermore, unlike hammering speeding, it requires a consistent and effective long-term plan, with no return on investment, so it aint gonna happen.

Well, let's see. Since the 80s, we've overhauled the licensing system, attacked drunk driving, seatbelt wearing. There have been campaigns on sharing the road with cyclists, motorcycle awareness. Seems like a pretty broad-based approach to me.

vifferman
17th December 2004, 14:08
Well, let's see. Since the 80s, we've overhauled the licensing system, Overhauled?!?
So it's not true that there are people being licensed to drive who are barely capable of keeping the car in a straight line? And who can't parallel park?
C'mon, man! That's like saying you overhauled your bike because you'd washed the road spooj off it!


attacked drunk driving, seatbelt wearing. Agreed, there have been improvements there.

There have been campaigns on sharing the road with cyclists, motorcycle awareness. Seems like a pretty broad-based approach to me.And fairly ineffective, if you ask me.
Broad-based? The funding's obviously inadequate and the approach all wrong, for the negligible impact it's had. I'd imagine most of the funding for these latter campaigns you've mentioned has done little apart from fill the coffers of a few advertising agencies.
Look - the attitude of the average NZ driver (as exhibited by things like speeding up at passing lanes, getting aggro when people try to pass, driving through stop signs and red lights, and generally driving like a prat) is such that a broad-based whitewash arrived at by using bad statistical analysis and poor hypotheses is just not going to work.
Like I said, it's putting a band-aid on a deep and malignant cancer. :spudwhat:

inlinefour
17th December 2004, 15:55
I doubt that comparing speeding to burglary, paedophilia and drug-dealing is a valid argument. Equating the latter crimes with "harmless indulgence" seems a bit strange: it can I imagine fairly easily be proven that these people's actions have caused serious harm, and if the perpetrators can't or won't see that then that is the result of their twisted thinking. Trying to convince me that doing 111kph on the open road is "wrong" in the same sense as the examples you have quoted is absurd. I can see both qualitative and quantitative differences: qualitative in the absence of criminal intent or at the very least reckless disregard for consequences; quantitative in the degree of actual harm done to any individual or to society as a whole.

I don't dispute the necessity for road rules, including speed limits. I think that the penalties for breaking them, particularly the demerit points, are excessive considering the "harm" done.
To say that a person who accumulates 5 lots of 20 points for doing 11 kph over the limit in each case deserves to lose his licence for sheer stupidity or wilful disobedience undercuts the whole basis of a justice system. In the first place it should be up to a judge to determine penalties, taking into account individual circumstances, and secondly the punishment should be for the actual harm or potential harm done, not for being stupid or forgetful or even rebellious.
An automatic, inflexible "3-strikes you're out" type of system is bound to lead to unfairness...

"Society has determined that stealing a sheep is unacceptable. The law is the law. You knew the law, and therefore the consequences of your action. You will hang. Stop whingeing..."

I should point out that I am happy to be labelled a woolly-minded liberal with totally unrealistic ideals. You need to have a few of us in society.


Try working in an emergency dept for a week and look at the mess that comes in on a regular basis these days from bikers that have crapped off for whatever reason and look at the bigger mess when speeding is a factor :weep:

scumdog
17th December 2004, 19:53
Try working in an emergency dept for a week and look at the mess that comes in on a regular basis these days from bikers that have crapped off for whatever reason and look at the bigger mess when speeding is a factor :weep:

Honda, a bit of the time I wonder what planet you are from but on this occasion you are SO right, it is a fine line between "oops" and "fuck, get the undertaker"
After 20+ years in the freezing works I think the results of a bad (is there a 'good'?) crash is just like the gut-floor at the works, only there is no crying/wailing rellies. :eek:, try it sometime.

scumdog
17th December 2004, 20:03
I don't have a problem with the fine or the points, yes I screwed up and I accept the penalties, I just think that placing MY entire livelihood in jeopardy because of a mere(and this is how I view it) speeding offence is heavy handed, do you think that someone should have their entire life go down the toilet because of a speeding offence?

I notice that although you quoted me, you didn't address any of the points I raised.............................oh and I wasn't cranking up to that speed to pass the truck, I was just enjoying myself! Sorry, I forgot we are not allowed to do that in this day and age!! And yes I am being sarcastic, to save you the bother of replying along the lines of risking other road users lives which I accept is a valid point and not one that I disagree with.

Yor whole life went down the toilet? Try dead, then your life REALLY goes down the toilet.
Enjoy yourself, I've no problem with that, just pay for it when it breaks the law ok? - and stop moaning when you have to pay and piss off to a place where you can ride like you want to if you don't want to pay for your law breaking.
The points you raised were???

spudchucka
17th December 2004, 20:11
I doubt that comparing speeding to burglary, paedophilia and drug-dealing is a valid argument. Equating the latter crimes with "harmless indulgence" seems a bit strange: it can I imagine fairly easily be proven that these people's actions have caused serious harm, and if the perpetrators can't or won't see that then that is the result of their twisted thinking. Trying to convince me that doing 111kph on the open road is "wrong" in the same sense as the examples you have quoted is absurd. I can see both qualitative and quantitative differences: qualitative in the absence of criminal intent or at the very least reckless disregard for consequences; quantitative in the degree of actual harm done to any individual or to society as a whole.

Go ask a six year old who's mum has just been killed by someone speeding for their quantitative opinion on how much harm that person caused. Or for that matter the mother of the young dude who wipe himself out on a power pole this morning. Its all relative to your personal experiences. Yours are obviously very different to mine.

spudchucka
17th December 2004, 20:19
To say that a person who accumulates 5 lots of 20 points for doing 11 kph over the limit in each case deserves to lose his licence for sheer stupidity or wilful disobedience undercuts the whole basis of a justice system.
Crap. If they are too arogant or too stupid to drive within the law then they should be removed from the road as they have proven themselves to be a public menace.


"Society has determined that stealing a sheep is unacceptable. The law is the law. You knew the law, and therefore the consequences of your action. You will hang. Stop whingeing..."
Hanging was repealed a very long time ago and nobody ever got hung for stealing a sheep, (except for maybe in the very dark ages or in Australia). And don't knock my analogies if you are planning on using ones like this yourself!


I should point out that I am happy to be labelled a woolly-minded liberal with totally unrealistic ideals. You need to have a few of us in society.
"Few" being the most relevant word in these two sentences!

2_SL0
17th December 2004, 20:28
Go ask a six year old who's mum has just been killed by someone speeding for their quantitative opinion on how much harm that person caused. Or for that matter the mother of the young dude who wipe himself out on a power pole this morning. Its all relative to your personal experiences. Yours are obviously very different to mine.


I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.
I dont see the speed is the issue, its the person behind the wheel. Im sorry but I dont see targeting the person who is doing 100-115kmh is going to fix the problem. You have to target the attitude and develop BETTER driving skills. Instead of trying to lower the the average speed. Why dont we attempt to lift the quality of driving. I imagine that would result in a far better driving record for the country.

spudchucka
17th December 2004, 20:46
I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.
I dont see the speed is the issue, its the person behind the wheel. Im sorry but I dont see targeting the person who is doing 100-115kmh is going to fix the problem. You have to target the attitude and develop BETTER driving skills. Instead of trying to lower the the average speed. Why dont we attempt to lift the quality of driving. I imagine that would result in a far better driving record for the country.
They are targeting an attitude. The attitude that I can drive at whatever speed I like or the attitude that I can drive at 115 because in my mind it is safe and I don't care that the speed limit is there for a reason because I know better and I'm such a good driver and its a good straight road and its not raining at the moment and theres not that much traffic on the road and my car / bike is so cool and my girlfriend gets wet when we go really fast and I'm going to save a whole ten minutes if I just go another 10 kph faster and shit while my girl friend was rubbing my dick I didn't realise I was now going 125kph and oh crap theres cow shit all over the road and fuck theres a cow on the road now and holly shit I didn't know cows made such a mess when you hit them at 120 and oh my fucking god where the fuck is my girlfriends head.............

Yes I've had a bad day!

scumdog
17th December 2004, 20:50
I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.
I dont see the speed is the issue, its the person behind the wheel. Im sorry but I dont see targeting the person who is doing 100-115kmh is going to fix the problem. You have to target the attitude and develop BETTER driving skills. Instead of trying to lower the the average speed. Why dont we attempt to lift the quality of driving. I imagine that would result in a far better driving record for the country.

I hear where you are coming from but you have to realise that some rider/drivers are out of their depth at 75kph and you 'expert riders' that think 120kph is too slow are at the other end of the spectrum and unfortunately 100kph is deemed the best 'safest' average speed for the 'average' rider/driver, sorry but that's how it is. :spudwhat:

MikeL
17th December 2004, 21:36
Go ask a six year old who's mum has just been killed by someone speeding for their quantitative opinion on how much harm that person caused. Or for that matter the mother of the young dude who wipe himself out on a power pole this morning. Its all relative to your personal experiences. Yours are obviously very different to mine.

You seem determined to misunderstand my point, and to cloud the issue with appeals to emotion. (Of course there is unacceptable suffering, but it is not limited to road accidents. How many young people committed suicide this year, leaving devastated parents behind? And how much money and effort is put into suicide prevention compared to bringing down the average road speed?) I have never denied that excessive speed can lead to tragedy. I am raising the question of whether the legal consequences of exceeding the speed limit are appropriate to the crime (and I use the term advisedly, in view of the currrent LTSA slogan). I have no problem with severe penalties for manifestly dangerous driving, even when no actual harm results, and I will even at a pinch accept that an arbitrary speed grossly in excess of the limit in the order of the figure that was mentioned in the first post in this thread can be taken as prima facie evidence of dangerous driving or riding. What I find somewhat disturbing is firstly the imposition of a harsh penalty (and in particular automatic demerit points) on the basis of a theoretical statistical risk rather than actual harm caused, and secondly the suspicion that targetting speed per se has become the main focus of road safety because it is an easy enforcement option.

Let me suggest an alternative approach:
Increase the penalties massively for those convicted of causing injury or death through their behaviour on the roads. Lifetime bans, large fines (some of the money to go to victims or their families) and jail sentences would all be appropriate. Upgrade driver education and licence requirements. Make it mandatory to do advanced training/refresher courses at appropriate intervals. Have suitable advertising campaigns that make people think about the consequences of their actions without insulting their intelligence by claiming that they are potential murderers. And bring back some flexibility in penalties for exceeding the speed limit to take into account factors such as the driver's experience, accident record, etc., so as to penalize the particular (not statistical/average) risk to the driver and other road users.

Totally impractical? Perhaps. It would put a heavy burden on the courts, for instance. But when pragmatism is put ahead of considerations of justice and fairness, you shouldn't be surprised that people whinge...

rodgerd
17th December 2004, 21:43
Overhauled?!?
So it's not true that there are people being licensed to drive who are barely capable of keeping the car in a straight line? And who can't parallel park?
C'mon, man! That's like saying you overhauled your bike because you'd washed the road spooj off it!


Two words: fucking. bullshit.

I can only assume you've never bothered looking at the difference between licensing pre and post graduated licenses. If you can't see the difference, well, you should hand in your license until you can get some glasses.

According to the LTSA stats, 18-25 driver fatalities have trended down per capita. The relative rise has been in wrinklies and middle aged drivers.



And fairly ineffective, if you ask me.


What were the number of deaths on the road in 1980? 1990? 2000? As a proportion of the population and mileage?

I guess facts are less interesting than whinging about how you should be allowed to speed and the road toll is everyone's fault but dickheads like petethepom.

scumdog
17th December 2004, 21:44
MikeL, good points BUT it's too late if you inflict penalties AFTER the fatl/serious injury crash has occurred, best if the threatened penalty can PREVENT such a catastrophe IMHO. :headbang:

rodgerd
17th December 2004, 21:45
I dont deny what your saying, its a sad fact. But both vifferman and Mike L raised some valid points. Its the attitude that is proberly the biggest problem.


Attitudes like, "race tracks are boring, I prefer the road", and "I don't care what the law says, I'll do what I want"? Attitudes like "double yellow lines are bullshit, I'll pass where I like"?

guzzi_nz
17th December 2004, 21:47
Attitudes like, "race tracks are boring, I prefer the road", and "I don't care what the law says, I'll do what I want"? Attitudes like "double yellow lines are bullshit, I'll pass where I like"?

:Punk: dont cross over yellow line when passing :banana:

inlinefour
17th December 2004, 22:24
Honda, a bit of the time I wonder what planet you are from but on this occasion you are SO right, it is a fine line between "oops" and "fuck, get the undertaker"
After 20+ years in the freezing works I think the results of a bad (is there a 'good'?) crash is just like the gut-floor at the works, only there is no crying/wailing rellies. :eek:, try it sometime.

Sometimes I also wonder what planet I'm on, must be the remernants from my teens? But too many times I post things on the www and many people take it another way than what was intended. Thus I have decided to reduce my posting, tonight being my first time of the such. I've obviously made an enemy with Marty, which is pretty sad and tends to put me off the whole KB theme. I allways experienced arses on the road that would not ride with me on my Honda, and this site must have em here apparently. I've now been accused of being another person who is placing crappy messages.
I like your comparison made. I worked in a local butcher shop while I was doing my studies. The difference is that at the block you don't have to explain to the piece of meat (rider) what is happening and it does not become agitated, or its family. :weep:

stevedee
17th December 2004, 22:33
Time to close the thread maybe? ain't worth falling out with mates over surely. You are responsible for your actions good or bad, ....pass the peanutts.

avgas
17th December 2004, 22:54
Why cant the money got to WWF or local schools or something?

scumdog
18th December 2004, 01:22
As a note of interest: I went through the Kawarau Gorge in a VR-X, I set the cruise-control at 100kph, MOST of the time I could get around the various bends o.k., now and then I was forced to 'hit the picks' , had I crashed as a result of NOT hitting the picks would speed be considered a factor? :blink: :spudwave:

marty
18th December 2004, 08:16
Sometimes I also wonder what planet I'm on, must be the remernants from my teens? But too many times I post things on the www and many people take it another way than what was intended. Thus I have decided to reduce my posting, tonight being my first time of the such. I've obviously made an enemy with Marty, which is pretty sad and tends to put me off the whole KB theme. I allways experienced arses on the road that would not ride with me on my Honda, and this site must have em here apparently. I've now been accused of being another person who is placing crappy messages.
I like your comparison made. I worked in a local butcher shop while I was doing my studies. The difference is that at the block you don't have to explain to the piece of meat (rider) what is happening and it does not become agitated, or its family. :weep:

fuckin hell Honda - you started it, now you're going all wimpy. and the other message from 'johnny rotten'? if it's not you, then someone is sure taking the piss good and proper, and if it is someone else, then ask yourself why they felt the need to take on your alter ego persona.

marty
18th December 2004, 08:23
just in case anyone missed it.....

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=1864

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/member.php?u=1865


you'll note the u numbers follow each other, both were created on 12th November 2004, and honda (used to) have johnny rotten quoted at the bottom of his signature - he now just has oi oi oi. come on Honda. nice try, but you'll have to do better than that. and no, i don't hate you, i just think that you're a troll - you can't even put your name to dickhead posts like this one >>>>

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/search.php?searchid=183777

2_SL0
18th December 2004, 08:42
As a note of interest: I went through the Kawarau Gorge in a VR-X, I set the cruise-control at 100kph, MOST of the time I could get around the various bends o.k., now and then I was forced to 'hit the picks' , had I crashed as a result of NOT hitting the picks would speed be considered a factor? :blink: :spudwave:

Yes it would, but would you get a ticket? Whether I have fallen into your trap I dunno. But you have just stated the whole reason as to why the system is not right. Because what you have stated is a attutitude/driving ability problem. Correct those issues and your (not meaning you) belief I can go round this corner would realise I need to brake the vehicle wont go round the corner, Im going to look like a dork. I dont see speed as the issue in your example, its a drivers ability to drive correctly to the conditions.
That reminds of the guy in the USA who has a camper van, puts it on cruise control and goes and makes a coffee, lmao.

Deano
18th December 2004, 19:36
I got pinged recently for overtaking on double yellow's.

I had over 100 metres visibility, nothing coming the other way, and completed the manouvre quickly and safely. WTF was the problem ? Bikes have the ability to overtake much quicker than a car.

Just my luck the guy I overtook was an off duty detective.

This was on Centennial Highway (read "killer" highway) so perhaps the cop freaked out.
Dickhead.

spudchucka
18th December 2004, 19:56
What I find somewhat disturbing is firstly the imposition of a harsh penalty (and in particular automatic demerit points) on the basis of a theoretical statistical risk rather than actual harm caused, and secondly the suspicion that targetting speed per se has become the main focus of road safety because it is an easy enforcement option.
$80 - $120 bucks and 10 - 20 demerit points is hardly a harsh penalty. If people are dumb enough to collect sufficient points to lose their licence then as far as I'm concerned they are to STUPID to be permitted to use a vehicle on a public road. They clearly don't value their licence and their driving no doubt reflects their lax attitude.


Increase the penalties massively for those convicted of causing injury or death through their behaviour on the roads.
Doesn't it make more sense to activley try and prevent someone getting killed in the first place rather than waiting for the worst to happen and then do something? Isn't it better to get the potential killers off the road before they kill?


Lifetime bans, large fines (some of the money to go to victims or their families) and jail sentences would all be appropriate.
We have all that now but the limp wristed sandle wearing liberal judiciary isn't that liberal at dishing out appropriate sentences. Life time bans make no difference to people who don't give a stuff, (the Greytown incident for example) the best place for them is behind bars.


Upgrade driver education and licence requirements. Make it mandatory to do advanced training/refresher courses at appropriate intervals. Have suitable advertising campaigns that make people think about the consequences of their actions without insulting their intelligence by claiming that they are potential murderers. And bring back some flexibility in penalties for exceeding the speed limit to take into account factors such as the driver's experience, accident record, etc., so as to penalize the particular (not statistical/average) risk to the driver and other road users.
Education surely has to be a major consideration that is simply not in the equation at the moment. However it should be at the start of your driving career, not as a form of rehabilitation.

rodgerd
19th December 2004, 10:43
I got pinged recently for overtaking on double yellow's.

I had over 100 metres visibility, nothing coming the other way, and completed the manouvre quickly and safely. WTF was the problem ?


That it's illegal, perhaps?


This was on Centennial Highway (read "killer" highway) so perhaps the cop freaked out.
Dickhead.

Perhaps he's cleaned up some of the messes that result when tards think "WTF was the problem".

enigma51
19th December 2004, 11:04
I think the main problem was not the fact that you were speeding but where you passed the truck. I passed a few cars a week or two ago and exceeded the speed limit by a few digits while a radar gun was pointed at me.
The copped pulled me over and said I should not speeding and if it was not for the fact that I was passing he would have given me a fine. So be gone and be carefull.

But then again it might just be because he was a nice guy.

onearmedbandit
19th December 2004, 12:19
I got pulled on a perfectly straight piece of highway, clear visibilty, almost no traffic (none where I got pulled anyway). My crime? 167km/h in a 100 zone. Result was 6mths loss of license, and $750 worth of fines. Completely my fault, I chose to break the law (which I'm well aware of) and the police officer was doing his job.

Ignorance is not a defence, so if you act in an illegal manner, then face the consequences. I will continue to go over the speed limit, be it 111km/h or whatever. Can't help it on my bike (don't speed in the cage), but if I get caught I aint gonna bitch about it. Sure I'll try to get off the charge if I can, but at the end of the day, if they catch you its a fair cop. (not cop as in L.E.O.)

Deano
19th December 2004, 12:20
That it's illegal, perhaps?

Perhaps he's cleaned up some of the messes that result when tards think "WTF was the problem".

Why thank you rogerd, but I think you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck.

Like I said, the manouvre was safe as - those yellow lines were only put there cause the real tards kept crashing. I suppose you think 101km/h on an open clear road is a problem too ?

A top cop was quoted on tv recently saying that overtaking a vehicle at 105-110km/h is not a big issue. Oooo, but technically it is illegal isn't it.

You're a right goody two shoes aren't you.

Go get 'rogerd' dude.

onearmedbandit
19th December 2004, 12:23
Deano - I understand what you're saying, but the law is the law. If you chose to speed, or cross double yellows when you think its safe, doesn't mean you shouldn't get a ticket. Or am I completely wrong in my logic??

Deano
19th December 2004, 12:27
Well, let's see. Since the 80s, we've overhauled the licensing system, attacked drunk driving, seatbelt wearing. There have been campaigns on sharing the road with cyclists, motorcycle awareness. Seems like a pretty broad-based approach to me.

Do you by any chance work for the LTSA ?

Deano
19th December 2004, 12:34
Deano - I understand what you're saying, but the law is the law. If you chose to speed, or cross double yellows when you think its safe, doesn't mean you shouldn't get a ticket. Or am I completely wrong in my logic??

Im drawing a parallel between what I did to slightly exceeding the speed limit.

Police have openly condoned exceeding the speed limit by a little - follow a cop and see if they aren't doing 105km/h, especially if in a line of traffic flow.

I understand the law applies to bikes as well as cars, but no one can deny a bike can overtake using less room than a car, and more often than not, more quickly too. What I did was not unsafe by any means, just like a slight exceedence of speed limits. Even the cop that pulled me over further up the road (the detective that I overtook phoned ahead) agreed that safety wasn't the issue.

If the detective had been going closer to 80km/h limit, rather than the 70km/h he was doing, I might not have bothered overtaking him. Maybe... :whistle:

jimbo600
19th December 2004, 12:41
Why thank you rogerd, but I think you've mistaken me for someone who gives a fuck.

Like I said, the manouvre was safe as - those yellow lines were only put there cause the real tards kept crashing. I suppose you think 101km/h on an open clear road is a problem too ?

A top cop was quoted on tv recently saying that overtaking a vehicle at 105-110km/h is not a big issue. Oooo, but technically it is illegal isn't it.

You're a right goody two shoes aren't you.

Go get 'rogerd' dude.

101 in a 100 is breaking the law mate. If you're prepared to speed you're pepared to kill. Obviously you are a rampaging murderer just waiting for the next victim.

Actually I thought that all those road markings and limits were for cars only. I assume that we bikies can do what the fuck we want.

Good reply to rogerd's post mate.

onearmedbandit
19th December 2004, 13:27
Im drawing a parallel between what I did to slightly exceeding the speed limit.

Police have openly condoned exceeding the speed limit by a little - follow a cop and see if they aren't doing 105km/h, especially if in a line of traffic flow.

I understand the law applies to bikes as well as cars, but no one can deny a bike can overtake using less room than a car, and more often than not, more quickly too. What I did was not unsafe by any means, just like a slight exceedence of speed limits. Even the cop that pulled me over further up the road (the detective that I overtook phoned ahead) agreed that safety wasn't the issue.

If the detective had been going closer to 80km/h limit, rather than the 70km/h he was doing, I might not have bothered overtaking him. Maybe... :whistle:

I agree completely there Deano, what you did was probably in the instance safer than what a lot of other road users were doing at that same point and time. Followed a cop car the other day at just over 60km/h in a 50 zone (other traffic around), then watched him change lane with no indication. I was like wtf?

spudchucka
19th December 2004, 16:26
(not cop as in L.E.O.)
Law
Enforcement
Officer
??????????

onearmedbandit
19th December 2004, 16:39
Yep, Law Enforcement Officer

rodgerd
19th December 2004, 19:51
Like I said, the manouvre was safe as - those yellow lines were only put there cause the real tards kept crashing.


Yeah. I wonder if the guy who ended up putting his Legacy under a truck thought so, too; perhaps he would have had a grab bag of answers about the "tards" who pay attention to the law.

And your attention was obviously so focused on the road and other vehicles you ended up getting caught by a cop.


I suppose you think 101km/h on an open clear road is a problem too ?

Only in as much as it's illegal. Not that anyone's going to get a ticket for it. I guess there's no difference between crossing a yellow line on a known high-fatality area of the country at a substantial portion over the speed limit and nudging over it.

If you're too stupid too understand the difference, and too stupid to understand the difference between "legal" and "illegal", perhaps you shouldn't have a license.



Go get 'rogerd' dude.

Yeah, whatever. Hope you end up under a truck.

rodgerd
19th December 2004, 19:53
Do you by any chance work for the LTSA ?

Nope. "We" as in New Zealanders. We've voted for these policies.

Pity we collectively got our panties in a bunch at the idea of dropping the drink-drive limit from a six pack, though.

Perhaps if we drive and ride better we can have nice things, like a Euro style 130 km/h speed limit.

marty
19th December 2004, 20:21
i refer back to the german research i posted a couple of days ago. wide (5 lane) roads, bac of 0.5 (ours is 0.8), high (above 90%) seat belt compliance, big 'safe' cars (bmw/benz/vw/audi etc), ACTUAL driving testing for a licence, truck free lanes, no RMA legislation, and an attitude that allows high speeds to be driven - no wankers holding up the 'fast' lane just because they are doing what they think is right. in europe/uk/mid east/sth africa, it is a regular occurance to flash headlights when approaching cars, to signal intention to pass, or get out of the way if on a multi-lane. if you do that here, dickheads put their brakes on, swerve out to push you further into the opposing lane, or are just down right indignant that you are travelling faster than they are.

jimbo600
19th December 2004, 21:24
Yeah. I wonder if the guy who ended up putting his Legacy under a truck thought so, too; perhaps he would have had a grab bag of answers about the "tards" who pay attention to the law.

Yeah, whatever. Hope you end up under a truck.

You can't make a comparison between a car and a bike passing on double yellows. A car fully take up the space of the oncoming lane. A bike will barely cross both lines. The "guy in the legacy" statement is just utter wank.

And as for the end up under a truck statement well fuckheads like you shouldn't be on bikes.

Stop being a cock.

VasalineWarrior
19th December 2004, 22:27
awsome bro! at least you got a decent ticket, not as if you were doing 91ks in a 50 zone in the dead of night-if your gona lose your licence you may as well go out with a bang, and you sure as f@#k did that. as for running? hey if you knew the road, and you know that youve just been clocked doing some stupid numbers id seriouly consider doin a runner. your stuffed anyway

scumdog
20th December 2004, 06:54
awsome bro! at least you got a decent ticket, not as if you were doing 91ks in a 50 zone in the dead of night-if your gona lose your licence you may as well go out with a bang, and you sure as f@#k did that. as for running? hey if you knew the road, and you know that youve just been clocked doing some stupid numbers id seriouly consider doin a runner. your stuffed anyway

THAT type of response is comensurate with the members number of postings! :argh:

Deano
20th December 2004, 07:03
Yeah. I wonder if the guy who ended up putting his Legacy under a truck thought so, too; perhaps he would have had a grab bag of answers about the "tards" who pay attention to the law.


Im sure I can overtake quicker than a legacy, and using less of the road too.
Its a judgement call about when it is safe to overtake.



And your attention was obviously so focused on the road and other vehicles you ended up getting caught by a cop.

It was an off duty detective in his private car - I hope you pay more attention on the road than you did reading my post.



Only in as much as it's illegal.


Wasn't that one of your points Mr goody two shoes?




Yeah, whatever. Hope you end up under a truck.

Disagreement and the odd insult aside, thats a real nice thing to say about a fellow KBer "mate". I wouldn't wish that on anyone, no matter how much of a dick I think you are.

onearmedbandit
20th December 2004, 07:53
Hear hear, to wish that upon someone just because you don't agree with what they're saying is despicable (sp?). Farkin disgusting in fact, you should be seriously ashamed of yourself rogerd.

scumdog
20th December 2004, 07:57
Hear hear, to wish that upon someone just because you don't agree with what they're saying is despicable (sp?). Farkin disgusting in fact, you should be seriously ashamed of yourself rogerd.

Yup, o.k to call someone a wanker etc but "beware of what you wish for - you may just get it". Life is too short to get THAT bitter & twisted dude :calm: , you're entitled to your opinion but lighten up a little eh? :Playnice:

MSTRS
20th December 2004, 08:32
Yup, o.k to call someone a wanker etc but "beware of what you wish for - you may just get it". Life is too short to get THAT bitter & twisted dude :calm: , you're entitled to your opinion but lighten up a little eh? :Playnice:
Yeah - to all rednecks everywhere......may you live in interesting times. :Pokey: :whistle:

Indo
20th December 2004, 12:13
Like I said, the manouvre was safe as - those yellow lines were only put there cause the real tards kept crashing. .

I'd say that the 'tards' who kept crashing had a similar attitude to yours. Ie Im a superior driver/rider the road code and law only applies to everyone else, its safe when i do it but dangerous when everyone else does it.

Do you apply the same attitude to all the other laws? do you go through red lights if you can't see any other cars? Thats the same principal isn't it, after all if you 'think' you can do it safely why not do it?


A top cop was quoted on tv recently saying that overtaking a vehicle at 105-110km/h is not a big issue. Oooo, but technically it is illegal isn't it..

What would happen if Police said they would use the same level 'discretion' towards people who overtake on double yellows, run stop signs, or run red lights etc? encouraging every idiot to push the limit further...

I don't think i'd be the only person selling my bike.

**R1**
20th December 2004, 12:41
Everyone.....meet the 85th percentile!


You write those gad dam ltsa adds about speed dont ya? :argh:

got a faster car yet? :Pokey:

:kick: or still busy beating people with the yellow pages.

At the end of the day no matter who you think you are we have all broken, bent the law in some way or other, including the coppers.

**R1**
20th December 2004, 12:47
Well I went out for an early morning hoon today and paid the price big-time.
I got pulled by the cops after being clocked at 163kph, whilst overtaking a truck, on the wrong side of the no passing lines.....result, instant 28 day license suspension, $150 fine for the overtake plus whatever kind of fine I get from the court for the speeding, local knowledge says I can expect over $1000!!!

So the moral of this story is........lets all go buy top of the range radar detectors...sigh

What really upset me is the fact that the suspension was on the spot, I couldn't even ride home, and I was in the arse end of no-where, I can live with getting punished for speeding but this seems bloody draconian by UK standards(thre fact that I didn't get the chance to even try to talk my way out of it didn't help either!)

hey bro my heart goes out to you and ya family ($1000 FINE) god dam. but you broke the law and stopped no1 here can argue and say you are right, coz u aint, the law is the law. nxt time do what ya said buy a realy good radar detector, and have a place to run to. i have a bell that works a treat picks the coppers up a mile away, if that fails i have a R1 that always works if the Bell fails :niceone:

Deano
20th December 2004, 12:54
I'd say that the 'tards' who kept crashing had a similar attitude to yours. Ie Im a superior driver/rider the road code and law only applies to everyone else, its safe when i do it but dangerous when everyone else does it.


I think its been fairly well established that inattention was the main cause of vehicles crossing the yellow lines in Centennial Highway, not motrocycles overtaking slow cars. How many motocycles accidents do you know of that have occurred there from overtaking ? I don't recall any. AND, the cop who issued the ticket said it was not a safety issue - do you know more about it than him ???

BTW - from what Ive seen in my 18 years of driving/riding, yes I do consider myself a superior driver to many - how many years have you been driving/riding?



Do you apply the same attitude to all the other laws? do you go through red lights if you can't see any other cars?

Some laws I do yes - if I don't consider there is any significant negative impact, or likely negative impact on any other person.

And in some circumstances you are allowed to go through a red light. Or would you wait possibly hours in the middle of the night for a car to come and set them off ?




What would happen if Police said they would use the same level 'discretion' towards people who overtake on double yellows, run stop signs, or run red lights etc? encouraging every idiot to push the limit further...



Actually, the cop was prepared to issue a warning after agreeing it wasn't a safety issue. It was only when the detective pulled up and made it 'formal' that he issued a ticket - with some reluctance I might add.

Ive also watched a cop doing a 'sting' on stop signs, and the number of cars that 'crawled' through without completely stopping was incredible. Yet no tickets were issued for it, which tells me there certainly is some level of 'discretion'.



I don't think i'd be the only person selling my bike.

What kind of bike is that mate ? Never heard of an 'f'.

Merry Christmas Mr Indo from 'f'.

BTW - anyone else want a go - I love a good argument.

:yes:

Deano
20th December 2004, 12:59
Whoops, just checked your profile (and previous posts).

No gender listed.

Are you a wannabe policeman eunech ?

Biff
20th December 2004, 13:08
BTW - anyone else want a go - I love a good argument. :yes:

Yeah I'll have an arguement with you, just as soon as I can think of something that you don't agree with.

Fact is that the law is the law and everyone must obey it or the foundation of civilisation will crumble around us. So shut the fk up and roll me a joint bitch while I mug this ole lady. :doobey:

Just being an arse to lighten things up.

Indo
20th December 2004, 13:59
I don't recall any. AND, the cop who issued the ticket said it was not a safety issue - do you know more about it than him ???

I don't know the stretch of road, but generally double yellow lines are there for a reason, not just to piss people off.

And i also thought you said that the cop who issued the ticket didn't even see you do it, it was the detective who saw it and directed that the ticket be issued.


BTW - from what Ive seen in my 18 years of driving/riding, yes I do consider myself a superior driver to many - how many years have you been driving/riding?

A similar amount and ive seen/done just about everything. But the moment i start thinking im a god on the road will be the moment some joe public idiot takes me out.


Some laws I do yes - if I don't consider there is any significant negative impact, or likely negative impact on any other person.

Maybe you have the experience/skill to make those decisions, but do you really think the majority of the driving public are able to do so. Do you think Mrs Remuera in her BMW 4x4 is able to make a judgement call on whether its safe for her to overtake on double yellows or not?

Thats why the law in relation to double yellows flat out says you cannot overtake, not 'over take if you think its safe and if you think your a really really good driver".

The cop in the few seconds he sees you can't instantly divine your skill and level of experience and say oh that guys been riding/driving for 18 years hes a fantastic rider with a high level of skill i think ill let him off this time. For all he knows your the biggest idiot in the world and a danger on the roads.


Actually, the cop was prepared to issue a warning after agreeing it wasn't a safety issue. It was only when the detective pulled up and made it 'formal' that he issued a ticket - with some reluctance I might add.

Again, i thought that the cop didn't even see you do this and it was the detective who you passed who made the call?


Ive also watched a cop doing a 'sting' on stop signs, and the number of cars that 'crawled' through without completely stopping was incredible. Yet no tickets were issued for it, which tells me there certainly is some level of 'discretion'.

Some cops have discretion some cops don't, its not an inbuilt thing thats applied equally and is always fair. Consider yourself fkin lucky when you run into one with discretion.

At the end of the day you can complain and bitch about the law and how its applied all you want, but until the lawmakers see sense and make the road laws apply to everyone else but you, these travestys of justice are just going to continue.

Oh and merry xmas to you.

Deano
20th December 2004, 14:32
And i also thought you said that the cop who issued the ticket didn't even see you do it, it was the detective who saw it and directed that the ticket be issued.


The cop issuing the ticket had sufficient local knowledge and the CIB detective (dunno if they can actually direct an HP to do anything??) had told him that speed was not an issue, clear road etc. Just the fact that I crossed double yellow lines.



But the moment i start thinking im a god on the road will be the moment some joe public idiot takes me out.


I certainly don't think Im 'Rossi'. :msn-wink:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 14:50
The cop issuing the ticket had sufficient local knowledge and the CIB detective (dunno if they can actually direct an HP to do anything??) had told him that speed was not an issue, clear road etc. Just the fact that I crossed double yellow lines.



I certainly don't think Im 'Rossi'. :msn-wink:


I Do, fuk that dik man, he doesnt even have a bike, i wouldnt be surprised if he's a gay car driver or worse a gay copper, trying to entrap you so he can lock u away and have some fun wif ya

White trash
20th December 2004, 14:51
a gay copper, trying to entrap you so he can lock u away and have some fun wif ya

"Zed's dead baby, Zed's dead."

scumdog
20th December 2004, 14:53
BTW - from what Ive seen in my 18 years of driving/riding, yes I do consider myself a superior driver to many - how many years have you been driving/riding?

BTW - anyone else want a go - I love a good argument.

:yes:

The cemeteries are full of people that had the same over estimation of their abilities that I fear you very likely have.

BTW riding/driving for 35 years and don't consider I am a "superior driver" - except when it comes to life preserving caution, and then hoo boy, I'm paranoid about it.

scumdog
20th December 2004, 14:55
I Do, fuk that dik man, he doesnt even have a bike, i wouldnt be surprised if he's a gay car driver or worse a gay copper, trying to entrap you so he can lock u away and have some fun wif ya

Eh? WDF? c'mon gays, give this guy the reply he deserves!! (or at least some English/grammar lessons).

vifferman
20th December 2004, 14:58
Eh? WDF? c'mon gays, give this guy the reply he deserves!! (or at least some English/grammar lessons).
Can't say it any better than his sig line says: "Brain dead biker cant spell". :2guns:

Biff
20th December 2004, 15:03
I'm not gay but my boyfriend thinks that's an outrageous statement to make. Gay cops. I mean - everyone knows that yellow and white don't go with leather hotpants. :eek5:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 15:05
Eh? WDF? c'mon gays, give this guy the reply he deserves!! (or at least some English/grammar lessons).

I thought i had.

**R1**
20th December 2004, 15:09
Can't say it any better than his sig line says: "Brain dead biker cant spell". :2guns:

if you cant say it any better then y did you go ahead and say it any way ? DICK HEAD :bash:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 15:12
The cemeteries are full of people that had the same over estimation of their abilities that I fear you very likely have.

BTW riding/driving for 35 years and don't consider I am a "superior driver" - except when it comes to life preserving caution, and then hoo boy, I'm paranoid about it.

Dude no offence but i dont think hogs wheely anyway,
and your not exactly going to hone your riding skills on one now are ya :gob:

vifferman
20th December 2004, 15:15
if you cant say it any better then y did you go ahead and say it any way ? DICK HEAD :bash:

To emphasize that you are a KNOB END :kick: :2guns: :Pokey: :bash: :tugger:

vifferman
20th December 2004, 15:16
C'mon now kiddies - play nice, or you'll have to go outside.:calm:

White trash
20th December 2004, 15:18
if you cant say it any better then y did you go ahead and say it any way ? DICK HEAD :bash:



To emphasize that you are a KNOB END :kick: :2guns: :Pokey: :bash: :tugger:

Right-O you two, fuck off before I piss my pants laughing :laugh:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 16:07
To emphasize that you are a KNOB END :kick: :2guns: :Pokey: :bash: :tugger:


know me b4 u judge me :eek:

calm dwn man just havn some fun you fellas are so god dam serious.

i dont think every one is going to agree on eveyone elses opinions.

easy to get stuck in on here aint it, sorry all have to wait till Thursday to get pats for my bike, and the weather here has sucked for 2 weeks hvnt even been out in the dirt. no ride makes Aaron very unhappy

scumdog
20th December 2004, 16:32
Dude no offence but i dont think hogs wheely anyway,
and your not exactly going to hone your riding skills on one now are ya :gob:

To quote: " know me b4 u judge me" hey fella? :Oi:

Where does a 'hogly wheely' come into this story and how NOT am I going to 'hone' my riding skills because I'm riding a hog? - or are you trying to say I am too old to learn? :confused2

**R1**
20th December 2004, 16:59
To quote: " know me b4 u judge me" hey fella? :Oi:

Where does a 'hogly wheely' come into this story and how NOT am I going to 'hone' my riding skills because I'm riding a hog? - or are you trying to say I am too old to learn? :confused2


nothing to do with your age buddy just ya bike i rode one a while ago :puke: .no offence but take some if you want too,

merv
20th December 2004, 17:01
Right-O you two, fuck off before I piss my pants laughing :laugh:

Hey welcome back Trash Man, we've missed your sensitive comments on here for too long now.

WINJA
20th December 2004, 17:13
IF SPEEDING IS REALLY THAT BAD WHY DID POLICE EVEN CONSIDER SPEEDING HELEN TO A RUGBY GAME LET ALONE DO IT, FUCKIN PIGS AND THERE DOUBLE STANDARDS. THOSE COPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP FOR DANGEROUS DRIVING AND ALL VEHICLES INVOLVED CONFISCATED.ITS HARD TO ARGUE WITH PIGS AND THEIR ATTITUDES AS THATS HOW THEY MAKE THEIR LIVING .

Sensei
20th December 2004, 17:36
Why do bike's have REDLINE'S for if you cann't take them to it . Why do people make 180HP bike's when the speed limit is 100k . Because they do ,to help a small group of rider's that want to go as fast as they can possible . I try to pick the right place's to Speed etc so as not to involve other's . Speeding has risk's but so do all thing's that involve Excitment . Those that need to feel this rush will know why they do it & will continue to keep riding this way . As I will myself "The faster I go the slower it feel's "
:sly: SENSEI NP

Coyote
20th December 2004, 17:40
Speeding has risk's but so do all thing's that involve Excitment .
Even stuff without excitment can be more risky. Walking over a wet floor is likely to be more risky than doing anything on a bike

jrandom
20th December 2004, 17:53
Walking over a wet floor is likely to be more risky than doing anything on a bike

Do I *really* need to post one of the ubiquitous photos of some dude strewn in fifteen parts down about 200 metres of some random road behind his smashed-up bike to make a point here?

merv
20th December 2004, 17:55
Do I *really* need to post one of the ubiquitous photos of some dude strewn in fifteen parts down about 200 metres of some random road behind his smashed-up bike to make a point here?

Nah ACC put ads on TV all the time to show us how. My favourite is the woman who trips and smashes herself through the glass table.

jrandom
20th December 2004, 17:59
Nah ACC put ads on TV all the time to show us how. My favourite is the woman who trips and smashes herself through the glass table.

I like the one of the guy tripping as he steps out of the shower. If you listen carefully, I'm sure you can hear the carefully-mixed effect of tearing spinal cord.

Great stuff.

Coyote
20th December 2004, 18:03
Do I *really* need to post one of the ubiquitous photos of some dude strewn in fifteen parts down about 200 metres of some random road behind his smashed-up bike to make a point here?
seen it :no:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 18:04
Do I *really* need to post one of the ubiquitous photos of some dude strewn in fifteen parts down about 200 metres of some random road behind his smashed-up bike to make a point here?

Please, do you have the one of that guy in Oz on the thou? WOW i bet he didnt feel a thing, the bigest peice they found was his chest cavity, and the bike had half a wheel. i had it but it must have got deleted.

Coyote
20th December 2004, 18:05
Nah ACC put ads on TV all the time to show us how. My favourite is the woman who trips and smashes herself through the glass table.
That damn women was about to explain how good those fruity bars were and she trips over. Now I will never know how good they are

And the same with that paint. The ACC are not very good at explaining their products

jrandom
20th December 2004, 18:15
Please, do you have the one of that guy in Oz on the thou? WOW i bet he didnt feel a thing, the bigest peice they found was his chest cavity, and the bike had half a wheel. i had it but it must have got deleted.

Hmmm, no. I don't keep them as a rule after checking them out, I'm usually on my work computer and I reckon stuff like that's a bit iffy to store, given that I'm not supposed to have 'offensive material'.

I wasn't implying that I was about to post pictures. I was just making the point that the actual outcome of bike accidents can be pretty spectacular, and that would certainly have to affect risk analysis.

As opposed to, say, breaking a bone or two in a household accident. Not to say you can't die that way, but it's a bit difficult to spread yourself over several hundred square metres with standard kitchen appliances. Also, 20-tonne trucks don't habitually barrel down suburban hallways.

Hitcher
20th December 2004, 18:22
IF SPEEDING IS REALLY THAT BAD WHY DID POLICE EVEN CONSIDER SPEEDING HELEN TO A RUGBY GAME LET ALONE DO IT, FUCKIN PIGS AND THERE DOUBLE STANDARDS. THOSE COPS SHOULD HAVE BEEN LOCKED UP FOR DANGEROUS DRIVING AND ALL VEHICLES INVOLVED CONFISCATED.ITS HARD TO ARGUE WITH PIGS AND THEIR ATTITUDES AS THATS HOW THEY MAKE THEIR LIVING .
The case is still to go to Court. There will only be a "double standard" if the officers involved receive different treatment under the law than others in similar circumstances.

WINJA
20th December 2004, 18:23
Why do bike's have REDLINE'S for if you cann't take them to it . Why do people make 180HP bike's when the speed limit is 100k . Because they do ,to help a small group of rider's that want to go as fast as they can possible . I try to pick the right place's to Speed etc so as not to involve other's . Speeding has risk's but so do all thing's that involve Excitment . Those that need to feel this rush will know why they do it & will continue to keep riding this way . As I will myself "The faster I go the slower it feel's "
:sly: SENSEI NP
HE NOW PROUDLY HAS AFTER "BIKE" 03 GSXR1000. IS IT A COOL BIKE OR WHAT. 155 IN FIRST

Hitcher
20th December 2004, 18:26
HE NOW PROUDLY HAS AFTER "BIKE" 03 GSXR1000.
Your eyesight must be improving, oh Locked Caps One.

WINJA
20th December 2004, 18:36
The case is still to go to Court. There will only be a "double standard" if the officers involved receive different treatment under the law than others in similar circumstances.
I DONT THINK THEY WERE ARESTTED , I DONT THINK THEY HAD THERE VEHICLES AND DID THEY LOSE THERE LICENCE FOR 28 DAY? IF THEY DID NOT GET ALL OF THE ABOVE THEN IT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. BUT REALLY I THINK THAT PEOPLE IN THEIR POSITION SHOULD BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD, IF A COP GETS CAUGHT BREAKING THE LAW THEIR PENALTY SHOULD BE DOUBLE AS THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

Hitcher
20th December 2004, 18:47
I DONT THINK THEY WERE ARESTTED , I DONT THINK THEY HAD THERE VEHICLES AND DID THEY LOSE THERE LICENCE FOR 28 DAY? IF THEY DID NOT GET ALL OF THE ABOVE THEN IT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. BUT REALLY I THINK THAT PEOPLE IN THEIR POSITION SHOULD BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD, IF A COP GETS CAUGHT BREAKING THE LAW THEIR PENALTY SHOULD BE DOUBLE AS THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
How many people in New Zealand each year get arrested for speeding?
How many people do you know have had the vehicle they've been speeding in confiscated when they didn't own it?
No they didn't lose their licenses (innocent until proven guilty, right?) but they've been stood down awaiting the Court outcome. How many people other than Police officers would get this treatment?

MSTRS
20th December 2004, 19:13
Hey Guys....newsflash. Aaron's been winding us up. He really rides a NiftyFifty & he's a SNAG. Got us good tho eh? :niceone: :laugh:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 19:37
Hey Guys....newsflash. Aaron's been winding us up. He really rides a NiftyFifty & he's a SNAG. Got us good tho eh? :niceone: :laugh:

wots wrong wif niftys? they make a good auxilliary when the R1's clutch gives up the ghost, did i mention i can wheelie a nifty for like a mile, i even recon i could wheelie a hardley ooopppps Harley, not far tho maybe a lil bit further than MSTRS(johnb) could the 1100

MSTRS
20th December 2004, 19:53
Hey Flipper, that picture looks a bit sore. Did you do it wheelying?

**R1**
20th December 2004, 20:00
Hey Flipper, that picture looks a bit sore. Did you do it wheelying?


who me? flipper? only the dirtbike, only once. im bloody good i tell ya

onearmedbandit
20th December 2004, 20:17
I've seen him in action, its more like the nifty rides him!!

MSTRS
20th December 2004, 20:24
I've seen him in action, its more like the nifty rides him!!
:killingme :killingme :killingme :killingme

MSTRS
20th December 2004, 20:25
who me? flipper? only the dirtbike, only once. im bloody good i tell ya
not you, check *FLIPPER* (member) he's got a real 'Nifty" piccy

scumdog
20th December 2004, 20:31
nothing to do with your age buddy just ya bike i rode one a while ago :puke: .no offence but take some if you want too,

So you rode a Sportster 1200 'S' and it was THAT bad? - you must be hard to please.! :bleh:
Dear me, you must be a daring rider old chap, I hope your present bike provides the handling and exitement you crave. :whistle:
I chose my 'S' as my choice of ride (could have any of a dozen other makes and style if I choose) and I'll just plod along with my boring 75hp 'olde worlde' scoot, covering the ground and admiring the scenery like the boring old fart I am. :o :rolleyes:

**R1**
20th December 2004, 20:51
So you rode a Sportster 1200 'S' and it was THAT bad? - you must be hard to please.! :bleh:
Dear me, you must be a daring rider old chap, I hope your present bike provides the handling and exitement you crave. :whistle:
I chose my 'S' as my choice of ride (could have any of a dozen other makes and style if I choose) and I'll just plod along with my boring 75hp 'olde worlde' scoot, covering the ground and admiring the scenery like the boring old fart I am. :o :rolleyes:

Not sure of the "S" bit it was a 1200 sporty, i think i got a bit carried away each to their own, No disrespect intended. but no it wasnt for me,k yeah fully get what i crave from the yammy, only wish i didnt have to work then i could ride everyday.

scumdog
20th December 2004, 21:04
Not sure of the "S" bit it was a 1200 sporty, i think i got a bit carried away each to their own, No disrespect intended. but no it wasnt for me,k yeah fully get what i crave from the yammy, only wish i didnt have to work then i could ride everyday.

An 'S' to a sportster is like a monaro to a commodore - same basic style but no comparison, take it from me. :2thumbsup

Glad to see you like so many facets of Gods world, rare to see somebody who embraces the whole world in all its forms so positively. :bleh: :whistle:

flipper
20th December 2004, 21:05
Hey Flipper, that picture looks a bit sore. Did you do it wheelying?

Yeah, overtaking a nifty fuckin fifty not even doing fifty on the 'magic' I popped her up on the back wheel on the wrong side of the yellow lines whilst giving the finger to two nuns when I plowed into a cop coming the otherway.

Fuckers gave me a ticket.

MSTRS
20th December 2004, 21:26
Wot?? They got you for no rego or something? :doh:

flipper
20th December 2004, 21:28
No, shoulda known better than to be rude to a nun.

spudchucka
20th December 2004, 22:20
You write those gad dam ltsa adds about speed dont ya? :argh: No.

got a faster car yet? :Pokey: WTF are you on about?

:kick: or still busy beating people with the yellow pages.
Nothing wrong with bringing out all the old urban legends I guess.

At the end of the day no matter who you think you are we have all broken, bent the law in some way or other, including the coppers.No body is squeaky clean, we have all done things we aren't proud of I'm sure of that. But theres a big difference between having done a few stupid / bad things and actively encouraging / glorifying law breaking.

spudchucka
20th December 2004, 22:40
I DONT THINK THEY WERE ARESTTED , I DONT THINK THEY HAD THERE VEHICLES AND DID THEY LOSE THERE LICENCE FOR 28 DAY? IF THEY DID NOT GET ALL OF THE ABOVE THEN IT IS A DOUBLE STANDARD. BUT REALLY I THINK THAT PEOPLE IN THEIR POSITION SHOULD BE HELD TO A HIGHER STANDARD, IF A COP GETS CAUGHT BREAKING THE LAW THEIR PENALTY SHOULD BE DOUBLE AS THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER.
They have been charged with Dangerous Driving, Party to Dangerous Driving and I think Careless Driving, none of which has a power to impound vehicles or a 28 licence suspension. So Mr Caps Lock, get your fucken facts straight before you open your filthy, loud mouth shit hole. You know fuck all about what you are talking about and are just making a bigger cock of yourself than you allready have. I'm sure it will satisfy you to know that cops who have been charged and convicted of criminal offences have, on the whole, received much harsher penalties than you averge garden variety of low life scum sucking bottom dwellers, which is information that again highlights what an ignorant piece of shit you are.:tugger:

MERRY CHRISTMAS

ajturbo
20th December 2004, 23:20
They have been charged with Dangerous Driving, Party to Dangerous Driving and I think Careless Driving, none of which has a power to impound vehicles or a 28 licence suspension. So Mr Caps Lock, get your fucken facts straight before you open your filthy, loud mouth shit hole. You know fuck all about what you are talking about and are just making a bigger cock of yourself than you allready have. I'm sure it will satisfy you to know that cops who have been charged and convicted of criminal offences have, on the whole, received much harsher penalties than you averge garden variety of low life scum sucking bottom dwellers, which is information that again highlights what an ignorant piece of shit you are.:tugger:

MERRY CHRISTMAS


wow you are pissed!
go and look at your bike matey!
calm down....
:calm:

Teflon
21st December 2004, 05:23
Why do bike's have REDLINE'S for if you cann't take them to it . Why do people make 180HP bike's when the speed limit is 100k . :sly: SENSEI NP

Think the real question is, why do people who are anti speeding buy bikes like a TL etc?. I'm sure their are more suitable bikes out there i.e SV 650, Ducati600, has to be ego.

White trash
21st December 2004, 06:45
Hey welcome back Trash Man, we've missed your sensitive comments on here for too long now.

Thanks mate. Couldn't resist jumping in on this one.

And I aint even started getting sensitive yet :spudbooge

**R1**
21st December 2004, 07:14
Nothing wrong with bringing out all the old urban legends I guess.


urban legend????? god dam i have been on the recieving end of that urban legend, it felt real enough :finger: it wasnt even me :angry2:

White trash
21st December 2004, 07:23
Nothing wrong with bringing out all the old urban legends I guess.


urban legend????? god dam i have been on the recieving end of that urban legend, it felt real enough :finger: it wasnt even me :angry2:

WTF are you on about? You guys sure do have some good "A" class down there....

vifferman
21st December 2004, 07:28
Nah ACC put ads on TV all the time to show us how. My favourite is the woman who trips and smashes herself through the glass table.Yeah, she's a top stunta that sheila. :Punk:

And that ad is very entertaining. Thanx, ACC! :)

jimbo600
21st December 2004, 07:50
They have been charged with Dangerous Driving, Party to Dangerous Driving and I think Careless Driving, none of which has a power to impound vehicles or a 28 licence suspension. So Mr Caps Lock, get your fucken facts straight before you open your filthy, loud mouth shit hole. You know fuck all about what you are talking about and are just making a bigger cock of yourself than you allready have. I'm sure it will satisfy you to know that cops who have been charged and convicted of criminal offences have, on the whole, received much harsher penalties than you averge garden variety of low life scum sucking bottom dwellers, which is information that again highlights what an ignorant piece of shit you are.:tugger:

MERRY CHRISTMAS

You guys get double stung when it comes to offences. Most folk get banned and a fine for DUI, but you lot get all that, but instant loss of job too. Now I don't condone DUI, but to lose your job too is harsh. And if anyone thinks for one minute that you are immune to traffic fines think again team as once again you qualify for the 'should know better' syndrome. I feel for those CP guys driving Ms Clark around though. Just sacrificial souls I guess. I hope the association is going to help them out.

Deano
21st December 2004, 07:54
The cemeteries are full of people that had the same over estimation of their abilities that I fear you very likely have.


Don't fret Mr Scumdog, I don't overestimate my abilities at all. Or push my limits on the road trying to keep up with my faster mates. I know my abilities and ride within them.

Surely you have seen the state of a lot of drivers on the road - failing to indicate, pulling out on you (no innuendo please), overtaking into oncoming vehicles etc. Hence I do think my driving is superior to many. FYI - my last driving assessment at work stated I was a competent and confident driver. :bleh:

Anyway, heres a little picture for everyone's comic relief.

jimbo600
21st December 2004, 08:07
Don't fret Mr Scumdog, I don't overestimate my abilities at all. Or push my limits on the road trying to keep up with my faster mates. I know my abilities and ride within them.

That's right mate. That's why we are always waiting for ya at the top of the Takas. Get a bloody move on will you.

Sparky Bills
21st December 2004, 08:26
At those speeds you cant stop!
But really depends where you are, and if there is a suitable get-away route.
Sorry for your loss mate!

scumdog
21st December 2004, 09:24
You go boy!!



I'm sure your right(you would know) but when i got charged with Dangerous Speed I got instant 28 days and I'm sure the cop said it was mandatory with the charge?? WTF?

Spuds list did not include speed, your 'event' involved ( I think) a speed of 150kph plus, : speed limit + 50kph = loss of licence for 28 days.
Soon 40 kph over the limit will have the same effect(so I have been told). :shit:

spudchucka
21st December 2004, 11:32
Think the real question is, why do people who are anti speeding buy bikes like a TL etc?. I'm sure their are more suitable bikes out there i.e SV 650, Ducati600, has to be ego.
Personally I bought my TL because I like V-Twins. I guess to keep all the knockers happy I could have bought a V-Twin ride on lawn mower instead, thereby satisfying my needs but also preventing the possiblity of someone highlighting what you believe the "real question" to be.

Biff
21st December 2004, 11:32
Here's a story for you told to me by a police dog handler buddy here in ChCh. He was called to an attempted break in of a motor vehicle motor vehicle taking place on the outskirts of the city centre. He naturally sped to the scene with his lights on and noticed several other police cars in the area also racing to the scene.

Only when he arrived on scene and went to the back of his truck did an H.P cop pull up behind him and have a go at him for driving at excessive speeds. The H.P actually asked the other police officer for his name, the which the dog handler claims to have replied something along the lines of, "get the fk away from me. I'm about to let the dog out of the van and you don't want to be anywhere near me when I do."

He swears this is a true story. :unsure:

My Spudchucker - any general comments?

spudchucka
21st December 2004, 11:33
Nothing wrong with bringing out all the old urban legends I guess.


urban legend????? god dam i have been on the recieving end of that urban legend, it felt real enough :finger: it wasnt even me :angry2:
Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bulls hit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!B ullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullsh it!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bu llshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshi t!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bul lshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit !Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bull shit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit! Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bulls hit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!

Biff
21st December 2004, 11:34
Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bulls hit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!B ullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullsh it!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bu llshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshi t!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bul lshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit !Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bull shit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit! Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bulls hit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!Bullshit!


Call me psychic - but I get the feeling you don't believe him

spudchucka
21st December 2004, 11:38
You go boy!!



I'm sure your right(you would know) but when i got charged with Dangerous Speed I got instant 28 days and I'm sure the cop said it was mandatory with the charge?? WTF?
You were nabbed by a cop that was using a speed detection device. The 28 day suspension comes into effect once you are detected doing 50+ kph above the posted speed limit. The cops in question weren't detected at the alleged speeds and are being charged as a result of investigation, thats the difference.

spudchucka
21st December 2004, 11:40
Call me psychic - but I get the feeling you don't believe him
Ya think??????

Biff
21st December 2004, 11:47
Ya think??????

Actually yeah - am I right?. Shoot - do you have any jobs going? I'd obviously make an excellent detective. :shifty:

Deano
21st December 2004, 11:49
You can't say some cops don't bend the law when they feel its deserved. Whoops, he must have fallen down the stairs. :msn-wink:

I fully agree with a few roughhouse tactics, when it is deserved - but everyone gets it wrong sometimes too. One of the flaws of capital punishment isn't it.

Not passing judgement at all but please but don't try to deny it.

spudchucka
21st December 2004, 11:51
Actually yeah - am I right?. Shoot - do you have any jobs going? I'd obviously make an excellent detective. :shifty:
So the wombat hurling business is a bit slow at the moment.....

spudchucka
21st December 2004, 11:57
You can't say some cops don't bend the law when they feel its deserved. Whoops, he must have fallen down the stairs. :msn-wink:

I fully agree with a few roughhouse tactics, when it is deserved - but everyone gets it wrong sometimes too. One of the flaws of capital punishment isn't it.

Not passing judgement at all but please but don't try to deny it.
I'm not sying it never happens, its a shame in some cases that it doesn't happen a hell of a lot more. However R1AaronKDX has chosen to alledge he has been the victim of one of the biggest hoax police / urban legends of all time. If he wants to have any credibility he would have to come up with a much more convincing story than that one. I couldn't possibly recall how many times I've had that story put to me but its usually a mate of a mate or an uncle or brother etc, nobody is usually stupid enough to alledge it actually happened to them.

Biff
21st December 2004, 12:20
So the wombat hurling business is a bit slow at the moment.....

Out of season. Roll on next spring... wooohooo

jimbo600
21st December 2004, 12:21
I'm not sying it never happens, its a shame in some cases that it doesn't happen a hell of a lot more. However R1AaronKDX has chosen to alledge he has been the victim of one of the biggest hoax police / urban legends of all time. If he wants to have any credibility he would have to come up with a much more convincing story than that one. I couldn't possibly recall how many times I've had that story put to me but its usually a mate of a mate or an uncle or brother etc, nobody is usually stupid enough to alledge it actually happened to them.

Here's one from an inspector. I don't know if it's true or another legend but he reckons in his earlier days they were questioning a real broken arse twat. While the 'd' was asking questions the cop behind got a fish from the supermarket and when Mr Broken arse gave the wrong answer he got slapped with the fish. Now when he eventually appeared in court he claimed to the judge and jury that his confession was under duress as he was slapped around the head with a fish. The judge didn't believe his rendition of events as who would believe anyone who claimed to be slapped around the head by a fish??

vifferman
21st December 2004, 12:23
The judge didn't believe his rendition of events as who would believe anyone who claimed to be slapped around the head by a fish??It must be true!:headbang:
I saw it on TV once.

I think it was that there fish-slapping dance. :crazy: