Top trail rider enduros....Feedback wanted

[MikeJ]

I`am looking for some feedback from riders who have:

A....Ridden any of the Top Trail Rider Enduros lately or,
B....Are thinking about trying one or,
C....Don't want to try one.

Any comments about how hard or easy they have been, the terrain, organisation, classes, efforts of the motorcycle clubs to make new riders welcome etc or if you haven't ridden one, then what impressions you have of what you think or have heard about them and why you wouldn't try one. ANY feedback would be appreciated to help tweak the series for next year or even for remaining rounds this year.
Thankyou,
MikeJ

[Danger]

I went out to watch the Riverhead round last year. It was my intention to do that round and this year I intended to do the whole series. But then the costs started adding up and it just got to expensive for me. Entry is $50-$60? and a day licence is $25.00, its almost $20.00 for 10 litres of fuel now, plus the fuel to travel to the events, then tires etc, at one race in Riverhead last year I ruined two brand new tires. So for me its just the cost otherwise I would love to have done the series or at least the local event. I think its a good concept. Its a shame a MNZ licence is required but I understand that it covers insurance for the club etc. If I was earning good money I guess this would not all be an issue, but I'm not. For me its a case of getting in a good all day ride on bald tires without too much traveling and not too much cost . :crybaby:

[Crisis management]

I'm a complete novice at this (off road) but have looked the the top trail rider series as a way of learning more skills and having a bit of fun.
At this stage I haven't attended any of the events and really don't have any idea about how hard it is, but my plan was to enter next year once I have figured out how to stay on the bike for more than 2 minutes.
So, from my perspective, I would want a class that caters to slow noobs that are over 50 or the reassurance that other riders wouldn't kill me in their enthusiasm and that there were some outs if it was over my head.
Costs of entering aren't much of an issue but time is, so I would only enter events near me. I wouldn't drive to Taupo to compete.

Hope that helps!

[chop]

i did riverhead in the first series brilliant excellent starting point and well run

[dammad1]

I'm with Danager, I think its a bit expensive if you have to pay for a day license as well.

If you want to encourage average trail riders to get out and have a go, it needs to be affordable.

I really like the way the GNCC's are run just turn up pay your $50 bucks and then ride, but even at $50 bucks it may put some people off.

I really think that if you want the series to be positioned for the average rider and to be a more social series, the whole MNZ thing is the wrong way to go.

[B0000M]

ill pretty much repeat whats above

mnz makes things expensive, but if you're riding mnz meetings regularly then the license fee once a year isnt too bad, however it is still fucken expensive, and personally im not sure what it is that my $125 a year actually does as a lot of clubs / venues seem to not be affiliated with mnz

i rode the riverhead round last year and thought it was awesome, well run, with good instruction from the regulars to people like myself who've never ridden an enduro style event. i think a lot of people will see it as just another trail ride and then wonder to themselves why pay $100~ when they could just go to the sandpit for the day for $25~

i do realise there are costs to pay, tho im not sure what they are and dont have a solution.

the track i found was mostly pretty easy for anyone to ride with the added bonus of the more challenging expert loops.

[camchain]

I got back into dirt bikes last year after over 20 years off, at 44yrs old. I can't believe it took me so long to see the light again! I did all the GNCC rounds, Rookie class (and a couple of other CC races, Bel Ray etc) and had a total blast. I'd done the odd club MX back in the day but I have to say Cross Country racing is different but just as much fun.

Racing gives the riding experience a stronger flavour. I would encourage anyone thinking about having a go to get into it. You don't have to be competetive to enjoy competing. It's incredibly satisfying just to see your name on the result list of battle participants. (Especially if you did better than you thought you would!)

My two cents worth on TTR Enduro as someone who hasn't sampled it yet:

1. Having started with some Cross Country, I was intending to have a go at TTR as an entry point into the Enduro caper this year but missed (injury prob) the Riverhead round I was aiming at. I later saw the high DNF rate and thought maybe just as well I wasn't there. (Fitness still needs work) Riverhead can be very unforgiving in the wet if you're not a Birchmeister type rider! Maybe alternative easier detours if things get tough? (like dead toad)

2. I was still keen on having a go but some rounds seem to be a bit far away from Auckland. (This is not a criticism. I just happen to live there at the moment and my thirsty Subaru is a problem)

3. The most significant off-putting aspect for me is that the Enduro format seems a bit hard to figure out and slightly daunting. I possibly haven't tried hard enough get info on it, but the info does seem a bit scarce.
I have trouble with the concept of how/why you get penalised for arriving at a checkpoint 'early' - isn't it a race? Also, how are you supposed to work out your average speed on a bike that doesn't have a computer or even a speedo on it while at the same time my pocket calculator brain is figuring out the best line across a set of tree roots or mud hole? By the same token, the results are a little hard to understand. I see riders who have obviously battled away for more than a couple of laps yet they get hammered with a big fat DNF after all their effort!

4. One of the aspects I've liked most of all about the Cross Country is the simplicity of it. No MNZ licence required (I've bought a couple of day licences = expensive). Just sign in, line up, dump the clutch, ride as fast and smooth as you can until the 'Race Over' screen flashes up (GNCC series) in the timing chute. Very shortly after finishing the results are posted and very detailed, courtesy of bar code lap timing. I've really enjoyed analysing/comparing the lap times at home. It gives you an amazing perspective of the event overall. How far behind top ten, how many seconds per km behind age class leader etc. Also I'd dearly love one of those shiny pretty GNCC medals one day. I'm probably not the only one. Even a lower level tangible momento of the TTR event eg. cheap little badge/certificate might appeal to other magpies like me. Just a thought.

I like to be prepared and have some idea of what I'm up against before I attempt it. I made some basic and frustrating beginner mistakes at my first CC events that put a bit of a damper on the enjoyment factor. I guess I'm not looking forward to 'Houring Out' (whatever that means!?) and I'd definitely like to avoid A DNF on my timecard (Do I carry a timecard with my during the race? Do I need to take a pen? Dumb questions are better than dumb mistakes!)

Sorry for the lengthy post but, having said all that, I enjoy the more technical terrain and I definitely want to have a crack at Enduro. I'm probably one of many dozens on the fringe of the scene who should be getting in amongst it but just need a bit of a prod (eg. maybe a Big TTR sandwich board at trail rides sign on tents?) and a bit more info on how to compete.

Cheers.

BTW Mike, I think the concept of Top Trail Rider Enduro is an excellent one, thanks to all who organise and put effort into making this sort of thing happen.

Mark.

[Ktmboy]

Camchain has a couple of good points.

The riding and tracks are top notch but...and a big butt is the organisation for the novice rider.
I had numerous people ask me how it works. I would have thought an information sheet written in laymans terms would be a good idea for the beginner as well as a thorough explanation from the crew.

Also the movement of the checkpoints, or rather lack of identification, well at Riverhead anyway, was annoying.
The last check of the day was in the pits area and was crowded with people hanging around. I didn't see it and sat there for a few minutes. Cost 150 points at the end of the day.

Over all the concept is great and good for the kids as well (although their races along with the novice is way too short)

[marks]

Like Camchain I am a recent return to trailbikes except I've never done anything competitive before.

My son (20) and I have been discussing having a go at one of these and intend to go to and watch one of the upcoming rounds.

Is there anywhere we can find out all the noob info like....

Do our bikes need working lights? how quiet do they have to be? How does the race format work (as Camchain elaborated) etc etc.

It would be really helpfull if the was a noobs guide to competing in the TTR on a website somewhere.

some videos of actual TTR rounds would also give an indication of what the riding is like.

cheers


Mark

[cheese]

I'll be keen to doa couple of teh GNCC series to see how I go, but yeah the MCNZ license is a killer.

[CRM]

Similar position - I'm 47, got back into riding a couple of years ago for the fitness and fun aspect but find trail rides a bit tedious now - the young fast guys on their MX bikes tend to take the fun out of it sometimes for us noobs.
Something a bit more structured would be fun. After chatting with Mike B @ The Farm and going for a ride with him I'd love to give an enduro a go but it would have to be local and relatively short for the old guys who aren't quite there yet.- but hey there's lots of us out there!

[Ktmboy]

Hope you are going to this weekends Enduro at Huka, mad if you don't as this would suit.

[camchain]

Agree with KTM Boy. If same course, I did the trailride at Hukerenui the day after the enduro there last year. It's top hill country and bush riding but serious clay, so slippery when wet. Well worth the drive up there. One of best rides I did, I rate it a lot better than Tango (which was infested with fist size gravel). It was solid riding the whole loop, no gravel roads - which to me are like annoying ad breaks in the action movie of my days riding.

Haven't been doing the gym work so may have to opt out ungracefully...

[Buddy L]

i like coming out of the trying bush section and pulling onto the gravel, chance to sit down, have a sip on the cammel back, and rest my grip on the grips a little R&R. any more then 100-200m is no good as i would have drunk all of my cammel back. But thats in a GNCC or a race against the clock, if trail riding then gravel is no good.

[ali-s]

I got back into dirt bikes last year after over 20 years off, at 44yrs old. .......
I'm probably one of many dozens on the fringe of the scene who should be getting in amongst it but just need a bit of a prod (eg. maybe a Big TTR sandwich board at trail rides sign on tents?) and a bit more info on how to compete.

Cheers.

BTW Mike, I think the concept of Top Trail Rider Enduro is an excellent one, thanks to all who organise and put effort into making this sort of thing happen.

Mark.

I havn't had a chance to actually get to a TTR but will be looking to soon as and probably don't need to add anything to camchains post as he seems to have voiced what a lot of senior (for want of a better word) riders want to say......so on that note keep the events coming mikeJ, and top post camchain
:ride:

[A&R]

Would like to do a couple of enduros but again like camchain above don't know much about it. A laymans sheet on how it works is a great idea. Advertising the event at other rides with an explanation on how it works would also take the mystery away and probably result in more older people coming like me. I assume you have to be a certain skill level before you can go. I have 4 kids and would definetly go if they can all ride.

[camchain]

Bumped into this on an MX website of all places.

http://www.motoxmag.co.uk/toptips-enduro.htm

Second link down page is PDF on enduro competition basics. The timing caper still mystifies me a bit. Seems weird to be penalised for entering a timing chute early in a 'race'

Some other good basic riding tips on this site for different terrain/obstacles. I liked the info on starts.

[MikeJ]

Thanks for the feedback guys. Next years enduro series is in the process of being tweaked with help from these postings..particularly in regards to how we encourage first timers to one of these events and also in regard to how we can standardize marking out, signs, graded deviations etc.
The timing system used for NZ enduros is unique to here. The NZ system is a whole lot simpler but has one major flaw, its almost impossible to run 2 or 3 different time schedules in the same race. The system described from the link in the above posting is what Europe, Australia, etc use...ie "real time".
The NZ system works like this......at sign on you decide what class you will be in. If you are an expert you will be near the front, as an intermediate in the middle, and novice or junior at the rear of the field. Sign on at every event is handled by John Rushworth (the guy who owns and runs www.silver-bullet.co.nz) who also does the timing and scoring. John will give you a sticker with a number on it that you fix to the front number board of your bike and a scoring card that you carry with you at all times. That number is both your bike number and start time. At the start check there are large display flip cards that are turned over every minute and at every minute 3 riders will leave. If the enduro start is at 10 am then at 1 minute past 10 the cards will be flipped over to show 01....the guys who have 1, 1a,1b displayed on their front number board must start their bike within 1 minute (if they dont, they get a penalty....enduros also test the bikes reliability) and move at least 20 metres. Lets say you signed on as an intermediate and John gave you the number "19b". That number is also your start time....so that means on the 19th minute, riders with the number 19, 19a, and 19b will leave the start check. Lets say you have been given 30 minutes to ride to the first check. The check 1 crew will start turning their cards over every minute after 10:30 .....so if you are 19b....you want to be at that check before or just as they turn those cards over to 19. If you are early you wait till 19 comes up....if it shows say 22...then you check in immediately. When you check in you do it with a dead engine...push the bike into the check...hand over card..the crew write down your arrival time..ie 19 or if you are late whatever shows on the flip card....push out then start and ride onto the next check. If you are late then that lost time can never be gained back. If you did get in at 22 then that is now the time you must check in at the next check. If you dont loose any time then your card that you hand in at the last check will have "19" written beside each check.
John also does the terrain tests. He uses palm pilots which make for fast accurate results. At some part of the course you will come to a terrain test start....you stop so the crew guys can get your bike number...then they will tell you to start when you want to...the moment you leave they record your start time...you ride like a loon till you come to the terrain test end crew. The end is set up so that the crew will record your time as you pass a point some 10 to 20 metres before you get to them. You stop so they can get your number...they will already have got your time.
At the end of the day John adds up all the terrain test times (there could be up to 8 of them) plus any trail time lost (50 points per minute) and any other penalties to give a final score.

Other points to note....experts ride roughly for 160 ks..taking about 5 hours of more to complete...intermediates 120 ks for about 4 or so hours.
Dont start your bike at all in the morning untill you actually start on your minute. Once you start you will have plenty of time to warm the bike and yourself up in the first section..the times are always really slack to allow for this.

"Real time" enduros allow for different section times to be used for different classes but working out your new arrival times at checks once you lose time can be a nightmare if you are not so good at mental arithmetic. At a "real time" check there is only a big clock....no flip cards.
My explanation is probably over explained because in reality its a whole lot simpler. It all makes sense once you have ridden just one section.

[BMW Grandad]

Congratulations on such a detailed reply! But you new guys don't be put off by the fact that MikeJ's explanation seems to take up half a page; he is quite right when he says that it soon all makes sense. I have helped at time checks at many enduros and seen hundreds of riders who have never done enduros before pick it up straight away. Be in and have a go.

[Buddy L]

So between the test sections you have "X" amount of time, to cover "X" amount of ground, so try and arive early and check over bike and refuel, eat a power bar. and get ready to start on you minute.
Sounds like it would be a real test of man and machine verses the clock.

so your total time is taken from the test sections (total time combined) and anytime added (added to total time) from not checking in on your minute.
And also be faster then everyone else in your class in the test sections

Sounds like ill be doing the next one in auckland.
Has got me interested.

[CRM]

So I assume you have a trip computer/clock on your bike and they tell you the distance and the time you have to achieve that distance - or do you just follow the crowd at a reasonable pace and hope for the best?

[takitimu]

So I assume you have a trip computer/clock on your bike and they tell you the distance and the time you have to achieve that distance - or do you just follow the crowd at a reasonable pace and hope for the best?

They give you

Total distance, total time, average speed

for every section, it's on a board generally where you sign in, writing the numbers somewhere is a good idea ( unless you have a KTM & have worked out how to programme the computer ), I use write them on gaffer tape attached to my bar pad ( I put the card inside the bar pad ). You can also just follow the other two on your minute & as long as you don't get passed by heaps you'll be ok.

Back to BuddyL, the special stages ( time trials ) are part of a section, in other words the time you have for a section will include time spent doing any included special stages ( pretty sure there can be more than one ).

The timing for TTR's is pretty loose, but be wary of TTR's that double as Nationals ( Intermediate/Expert class ), making time is a heap harder with those ( from what I've been told ).

[MikeJ]

A few more things that l forgot to mention....you usually get to ride a lot more different ground than you would at a trail ride. There is usually enough time at the checks for a bit of a rest and a chinwag and at the conclusion of every enduro there is a BBQ (included in the entry fee). Enduros are the most sociable of all the off road races, and probably over a third the riders are there for that reason alone.
Two more rounds for this season are...Taupo 18th May and Woodhill (Auckland) 14th Sept.

[tommorth]

that was a good explanation sometimes it takes a lot to explain somthing quite simple rekon ill enter the one in sept gotta get some more practice in had 7 years off the dirt

[dammad1]

How long do the novice's ride for?

[Azzman]

Fromm what I remember of the Hukerenui TTR last year the novices did in the region of 60-80 km.
It was my first ever enduro and to reiterate what has been said before it all came pretty clear on the day after a little while through.
Will def do the Int next time as it was a bit short but since it was the first one I had done I didnt want to push it.
Didnt lose any time during the day so was well pleased with that.
Will do Woodhill...