China free trade deal. Your thoughts?

[Chrislost]

:doobey:
cant be arsed looking after your armed forces?


suck up to the big guys?
http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10502506&ref=rss

Im no expert but I fail to see how this would be a good thing?

Would it not mean that NZ is flooded with "cheep shit that breaks after 2 weeks but fuckit its so cheep so who cares"???

[Madness]

I'm more worried that we'll sell all of our locally produced product to China for a high price. Imported Australian milk, anyone?

[HTFU]

:doobey:
cant be arsed looking after your armed forces?


suck up to the big guys?
http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10502506&ref=rss

Im no expert but I fail to see how this would be a good thing?

Would it not mean that NZ is flooded with "cheep shit that breaks after 2 weeks but fuckit its so cheep so who cares"???

apparently Aunty reckons that is happening regardless of this deal.

[sAsLEX]

cant be arsed looking after your armed forces?



No idea what you are talking about :weep:

[98tls]

A transvestite and a chinaman shaking hands,methinks it can only lead to trouble.There both prostitutes and seems they have finally agreed on a price.

[Steam]

apparently Aunty reckons that is happening regardless of this deal.

Conveniently overlooking the fact that National supported the deal too, and sent their trade spokesman Tim Groser along to the signing to demonstrate their strong support.

[98tls]

Conveniently overlooking the fact that National supported the deal too, and sent their trade spokesman Tim Groser along to the signing to demonstrate their strong support. National wtf,there hasnt been a National party since this guy,say what you will $ wise he was the best thing since sliced bread for me,in no way the best thing for the country but in that respect we havent really moved on much.Bet he has a right laugh at this place now.

[Livvy]

This is just the opinion of one young gal, but I think this smells like a load of fuckin' bullshite. She did this so damn sneakily, the public knows sweet f.a., and despite all the protests about what she's doing and China in general right now, she's going on and doing it anyway. I think we should really see what the civilians think - pro or against this trade deal?

But then I'll add, I have two Chinese students living with me, and if they're any representation of what China is like as a super power, the country will kill themselves out in twenty years anyway. Throw bugs at them, open windows, or take away their icecream and you're dealing with five year olds.

And that is my lack of respect of at least Helen, the agreement, and the guys I live with, as well as China's general policies.

[puddytat]

They'll be wanting our offshore oil & minerals next....

[SixPackBack]

National wtf,there hasnt been a National party since this guy,say what you will $ wise he was the best thing since sliced bread for me,in no way the best thing for the country but in that respect we havent really moved on much.Bet he has a right laugh at this place now.


Sorry how was he good??....Muldoon was singularly responsible for N.Z become near bankrupt. Remember car less days?...18% mortgages?.... a megalomaniac who appeared drunk on T.V and who after losing the election refused to step down?
I remember those days well, Muldoon was delusional, a fuckwit of the highest order, and as close to Mugabe as we have ever seen in N.Z politics.
He was in short the worst P.M we have had in the last hundred years.

[JimO]

Sorry how was he good??....Muldoon was singularly responsible for N.Z become near bankrupt. Remember car less days?...18% mortgages?.... a megalomaniac who appeared drunk on T.V and who after losing the election refused to step down?
I remember those days well, Muldoon was delusional, a fuckwit of the highest order, and as close to Mugabe as we have ever seen in N.Z politics.
He was in short the worst P.M we have had in the last hundred years.

naaaaaa hes ok

[SixPackBack]

naaaaaa hes ok

Agreed he's okay now, in a far more suitable place.

[BiK3RChiK]

What I can see is a depletion of our already depleted fish stocks, and an influx of non-english speaking, low-cost workers, among other things...

Also, the wine industry stands to gain a lot...

Who is really being looked after here?

Is this what we want for New Zealand?

[Deano]

What would Sir Ed have said about it ? (Or did say about it ?)

[Livvy]

What would Sir Ed have said about it ? (Or did say about it ?)
Maybe that's it. Helen just waited for Ed to die, for NZ in general to finish mourning his loss, and set the ball rolling because if he had said no to it, all of NZ probably would have...

[SixPackBack]

What I can see is a depletion of our already depleted fish stocks, and an influx of non-english speaking, low-cost workers, among other things...

Also, the wine industry stands to gain a lot...

Who is really being looked after here?

Is this what we want for New Zealand?

Unfettered access to one of the worlds largest markets is what business envisages As for the low cost workers-the slated numbers are of no concern. And yes this is what we want for N.Z.


What would Sir Ed have said about it ? (Or did say about it ?)

Who gives a fuck what Ed would have said!...he was not a politician or businessman.


Both major parties and the general business community are behind this deal, that speaks volumes in terms of the long term positive benefits.

I suspect within a page of this thread several members will be slagging Asians, such is the low general mentality on this site.

[gijoe1313]

Bradder asians! Ruck off home! Burn them! But first sauteed in soya sauce and wrap in wonton pastry! :girlfight::lol:

[Hoon]

And yes this is what we want for N.Z.

I have to agree. This is a golden opportunity for NZ. We need China's trade more than they need ours.

Greed is the main reason low quality Chinese products flood NZ.

Floods of unskilled Chinese labour in NZ will not happen as part of the FTA deal is that they must be paid in NZ wages, not bowls of rice.

[jrandom]

I've worked on electronics production and watched OEM-style sales activities in China, and I can confidently assert that the FTA will be a great boon for NZ companies generating high-value intellectual property and looking for markets to licence it into.

In my humble opinion, history will judge this as a positive achievement for the Clark administration.

[tri boy]

Personally I think this may turn out to be a great move for NZ in the future.
It will depend on how both sides approach it, but if handled sensibly, China and New Zealand could gain much.
(waits for "Human Rights", "pollution", commentators).

[Steam]

The mods should merge this thread here with yours. Yours should be on top, becuase it has a much better title.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=71151

[tri boy]

My apologies for a similar thread.
(but yeah, that other title slipped past me. Bit vague).

[YellowDog]

A Very Good deal for the NZ Economy.

However NZ's right to make comments over wrong doing by China over Tibet or anywhere else has just been officially removed.

An outstandingly bad deal for New Zealand.

[The Pastor]

This is a good deal for nz, it is much better for nz than it is for china.

Sure there will be job losses in the manufacting industrys (what ever ones we have left) but they shouldnt be there.

Nz is a primary producer, its what we can do cheaply compared to the rest of the world.

The trade deal will not start the end of manufactuers only speed things up a bit. Most NZ manufactuers will move there factorys over to china.

IMHO it is a good thing.

[Quasievil]

Its a very good thing for NZ, we have access to the fastest growing economy in the world, we have a competitive advantage over our other international competitors in that we have a progressively reducing tarrif enviroment to bennefit our NZ manufacturers.

Further to that, China producers top quality products in most cases the days of everything coming out of china being crap are truly gone, my only concern would be food products coming into NZ, that needs attention.

Go Go china and NZ, lets get some bling and catch up to the rest of the world.
To the nay sayers, I say wake up, we are in a global economy and we need to partner up as much as possible with the economic super powers if we are to prosper in the future, thats the fact of it.

[Grahameeboy]

A Very Good deal for the NZ Economy.

However NZ's right to make comments over wrong doing by China over Tibet or anywhere else has just been officially removed.

An outstandingly bad deal for New Zealand.

So lets not trade with America for all their wrong doings, invading Countries at will, threatening to invade other countries who don't toe the line or even Australia for the way they have treated the Aborigines...

I mean America refused Trade Agreements just because we refused to let 1 nucleur warship spend a few days here...

Looks like China is trying to improve things and I don't consider trading with them means NZ is supporting what China does and if they didn't trade with China for reasons of wrong do you think it will affect China...nop...I say better to trade with them to support New Zealand...at the end of the day the trade is with Chinese business who will employe more people etc and also help make their lives a wee bit better...

New Zealand is considered a neutral nation and respected by most of the world so New Zealand, by trading with China may be a positive...

[tri boy]

A Very Good deal for the NZ Economy.

However NZ's right to make comments over wrong doing by China over Tibet or anywhere else has just been officially removed.

An outstandingly bad deal for New Zealand.

Maybe, just maybe, we will be in a better position to influence a better out come for Tibet by being in the free trade agreement, than shouting from the sidelines.
Just a thought. Most of us listen to our close colleagues more than random folk on the street. NZ could be the country that goes down in history as the freedom makers.

[avgas]

Be warned everyone this may be a shock to you all, but china doesn't give a fuck about us.
I laugh about the whole FLOOD concept, make it sound like that crap movie where the water washed up over NYC.
Where are the couple of billion Chinese people gonna stay here.
Not even 1% of china know about this deal, or will use it.

[Steam]

This really amazed me, it's in the fine print of the agreement:


A Chinese company invests in NZ.
Then NZ passes some new laws limiting monopolys, or environmental laws, or any law that may have an effect on profitability.
Then we have to pay the Chinese investor 100% of their lost potential profits!

[Oakie]

This really amazed me, it's in the fine print of the agreement:


A Chinese company invests in NZ.
Then NZ passes some new laws limiting monopolys, or environmental laws, or any law that may have an effect on profitability.
Then we have to pay the Chinese investor 100% of their lost potential profits!


Think about that in terms of buying a bike from a dealer:
The dealer says "here, come invest your money in this bike. This is how it will perform for you. If it doesn't, I give you this warrantee which means that I will make things right for you at my cost if it does not perform in the manner I have described". It's not much different to that.
I have actually seen one business agreement myself in NZ that operates that way in which one party agreed to operate hydro canal within certain boundaries so a second party could run a business using the canal. If those boundaries were breached the first party would pay the second party for any lost business.

[YellowDog]

So lets not trade with America for all their wrong doings, invading Countries at will, threatening to invade other countries who don't toe the line or even Australia for the way they have treated the Aborigines...

I mean America refused Trade Agreements just because we refused to let 1 nucleur warship spend a few days here...

Looks like China is trying to improve things and I don't consider trading with them means NZ is supporting what China does and if they didn't trade with China for reasons of wrong do you think it will affect China...nop...I say better to trade with them to support New Zealand...at the end of the day the trade is with Chinese business who will employe more people etc and also help make their lives a wee bit better...

New Zealand is considered a neutral nation and respected by most of the world so New Zealand, by trading with China may be a positive...
Grahame - Your point is highly valid and I accept what you say, particularly about the Yanks.

Theoretically, the Western NZ culture will have more potential 'deal busting' fundamental cultural issues with China than it would with America.

I noticed how Helen Clark embarrassingly avoided the Dalai Llama's visit a few months back. IMO - NZ would be forever walking on glass.

[YellowDog]

Maybe, just maybe, we will be in a better position to influence a better out come for Tibet by being in the free trade agreement, than shouting from the sidelines.
Just a thought. Most of us listen to our close colleagues more than random folk on the street. NZ could be the country that goes down in history as the freedom makers.
NZ's influence over China would be ZIP. It is more likely to be the other way around.

I read an aricle about the huge increase in Chinese organs being sold on the international market. Apparently since they realised that human organs are big business, the numbers sentenced to the death penalty has multiplied many times over.

Mr Dipshit would be really happy if NZ introduced the death penalty for bike thiefs and then paid 50% of the sale of donated organs to help buy a new bike!

[xwhatsit]

It's really very exciting. Dropping the tariffs is just one small thing -- the bigger boost will be how NZ is promoted inside China now. Go to NZ for a good British-style education; go to NZ for niche technical stuff; go to NZ for scientific research; go to NZ for aviation/nautical expertise etc.

Can only mean good things. It's funny how warped our perspective is in western countries. Did you know that Han Chinese is the single biggest ethnicity in the whole world? And that Mandarin is the world's most spoken language (it has almost triple the amount of speakers that English has). When viewed as a single culture, it's easily the largest popular culture in the world. You might think America has a powerful global popular culture, but it pales into insignificance compared to China.

China simply hasn't cared about the rest of the world for thousands of years. Now as it's realising it isn't the centre of the world (Zhongguo (中國) -> Middle Kingdom), and that there are other countries lurking around the fringes, little places like NZ are eventually going to start looking towards China as the parent country/culture/civilisation instead of Britain/USA. We can already see such a shift starting to form in younger generations, especially those who are more educated.

So the FTA is inevitable, and it's nice to get it as early as possible (and before any other country!) so we can reap the benefits for a longer period of time.

[Brett]

I am undecided at this stage. Will wait and see. many negatives and positives to be had.

[steved]

It will turn us more into an exporter of dairy and less into a exporter of fridges.

Inevitable anyway.

[Finn]

We need all the help we can get. The FTA with the chinkers is good. How can it not be? There is so much of their shit in NZ, it's time we sold some of our shit to them. Fuck, we even have a chain of shops dedicated to selling their shit (The Warehouse).

Don't be stupid, it's a good thing.

[Jantar]

Think about that in terms of buying a bike from a dealer:
The dealer says "here, come invest your money in this bike. This is how it will perform for you. If it doesn't, I give you this warrantee which means that I will make things right for you at my cost if it does not perform in the manner I have described". It's not much different to that.
I have actually seen one business agreement myself in NZ that operates that way in which one party agreed to operate hydro canal within certain boundaries so a second party could run a business using the canal. If those boundaries were breached the first party would pay the second party for any lost business.


Not a valid comparison at all. Its like buying a bike from a dealer on the basis that fuel costs a certain amount. If the price of fuel goes up the dealer will pay the difference.

[BAD DAD]

I hope that the economic benefits that many are expecting are not off-set by costs relating to personal freedoms that we generally take for granted (freedom of speech being only one). Chinese leadership seems to be overly sensitive to critical comment on issues and I worry that such a major trading partner could have too much influence, more than we will feel comfortable with.

Party pooper eh?

[Skyryder]

Labour has lost my vote.

Skyryder

[Chrislost]

please tell me that this is just the news being wrong
http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10502653

[Citroenjunkie]

What I want to know is will the price of GN250's come down now? Or even better will the quality go up? If that was possible!

Just a rather simple question. Isn't it rather presumptious of New Zealanders to try to dictate to the most populous nation in the world how to run their country? I don't remember a Chinese delagation picketing in Auckland about the 'Foreshore and sea bed issue' or the 'Bradford ban the bash' law.

Why don't we accept that we are very small fish in an immense pond and be greatful for the whole handful of food flung in our direction, or do we really want to be American and dictate how the whole of mankind will live?

[Conquiztador]

National wtf,there hasnt been a National party since this guy,say what you will $ wise he was the best thing since sliced bread for me,in no way the best thing for the country but in that respect we havent really moved on much.Bet he has a right laugh at this place now.

Marlon Brando been in NZ politics????

[homer]

This is just the opinion of one young gal, but I think this smells like a load of fuckin' bullshite. She did this so damn sneakily, the public knows sweet f.a., and despite all the protests about what she's doing and China in general right now, she's going on and doing it anyway. I think we should really see what the civilians think - pro or against this trade deal?

But then I'll add, I have two Chinese students living with me, and if they're any representation of what China is like as a super power, the country will kill themselves out in twenty years anyway. Throw bugs at them, open windows, or take away their icecream and you're dealing with five year olds.

And that is my lack of respect of at least Helen, the agreement, and the guys I live with, as well as China's general policies.

Yeah i have to agree
just means , while we get told to buy nz products , now will move more freely out of nz . Then we will get more shit coming in to nz , as well as workers
so its all fucken lose lose
on top of that ,now we wil have more competion for jobs , so yet again the gov are going to keep pushing wages down .

[Swoop]

National wtf,there hasnt been a National party since this guy...
You must be joking! That moron shackled this country. Where is he buried, I need a piss.

They'll be wanting our offshore oil & minerals next....
Silly boy. Haven't you learnt anything from the treaty of waitangi?:whistle:

and an influx of non-english speaking, low-cost workers, among other things...
This is an interesting area. One of the skills on the list is "electricians".
To become registered to perform electrical work, you need to sit and pass exams... in english.
I wonder how this one will pan out.

[homer]

What I want to know is will the price of GN250's come down now? Or even better will the quality go up? If that was possible!

Just a rather simple question. Isn't it rather presumptious of New Zealanders to try to dictate to the most populous nation in the world how to run their country? I don't remember a Chinese delagation picketing in Auckland about the 'Foreshore and sea bed issue' or the 'Bradford ban the bash' law.

Why don't we accept that we are very small fish in an immense pond and be greatful for the whole handful of food flung in our direction, or do we really want to be American and dictate how the whole of mankind will live?

It wont come down in price ,it will go up if anything , what about the fuckers that take there companys over to china for the cheep labour , we still have to pay the same dollar for there stuff

[Blimp1]

As a sparkie im not over the moon as it means i may get a lower income. Also i believe i heard that they didn't have to be fluent in english is this true?

[homer]

As a sparkie im not over the moon as it means i may get a lower income. Also i believe i heard that they didn't have to be fluent in english is this true?

fluent in english ?
do you think they will be able to speak at all , maybe there just coming to fill the employment shortage , you know , all the jobs that pay fuck all that we wouldnt do .
As i said itll keep wages down wont it , its all the gov want to do here

[Conquiztador]

Snapper is out of my price range. Tarakihi is at $22/Kg. (I know, we had it today). The reason for this is that we get more for the fish when selling offshore. In the past China has not been an option. Now after this it is, and with 1,2 billion ppl there will be some that like fish... So in a few weeks I be eating Khawai as I will not be able to afford the Tarakihi. (Trust me, the ones with the fishing quota are already rubbing their hands.)

So perhaps I will in the future have to settle for canned fish from China...

Personally I have always had a problem with the abolishing of the tariffs. It was established to protect the countries own production. And with it gone all our production is going overseas. Now we are supposed to be the ones providing the brain power, the ideas, the innovation. As we can not compete with the China's of this world.

OK, so USA is not an ideal example. But Harley was in trouble. USA's last motorbike manufacturer was to close down. They could not compete with the Japanese bikes. So the USA government put a high tariff on imported bikes to allow HD to sort their sheit. And sort it they did. Like HD or not, you have to admit that they sell. If that had been in NZ there would not have been any new HD's anymore.

NZ has 0.4% of Chinas population. Chine gives a big fat fuck re the importance of NZ when it comes to the crunch. Time to think ahead and protect what we have here, not sell out.

[Trouser]

Not to mention that we are in a very important strategic position in regards to antarctica and the southern basin. China would love to get easy access to those places.

The Chinese would have a very long gameplan and a FTA with us is probably the second step in acheiving their goals. They really want to improve their political clout in this region.

Think about it. Why would the Chinese be soo keen to come to a FTA with us. To fast track a FTA with a 'western' nation. Doubt it, they have time. To offer us a golden oportunity that benefits us more than them and then slowly over the years apply leverage in the right direction. My guess.

[Manxman]

Would it not mean that NZ is flooded with "cheep shit that breaks after 2 weeks but fuckit its so cheep so who cares"???

...no change there then.

In answer to your thread question....fish.

[homer]

also nz can fish some of the southern waters , as i guess china cant , go figure

[Dafe]

Allignment with Communist China = VERY BAD!

[Conquiztador]

Mr Peters said NZ First wasn't necessarily against trade deals, but the China FTA did not go far enough to address a $3.6 billion trade deficit.

"Just over two decades ago the trade doors to New Zealand were thrown wide open in the vain hope that the rest of the world would reciprocate but that has still not happened.

"Under this FTA we will have to wait up to another 17 years to get the full benefits that have been promised," he said

"Given that China has effectively had half a free trade agreement with New Zealand for the past 20 years we could have expected more from them."

Other reasons he outlined for opposing the deal were:

* FTAs with both Thailand and Singapore had resulted in a worse imbalance of trade.

* China's low wages and labour standards made it difficult for local firms to compete;

* The provisions allowing 1800 Chinese workers into New Zealand outside normal immigration channels;

* providing up to 1000 young Chinese with working holiday visas without any reciprocal arrangement for young New Zealanders;

* increasing levels of food imported from China which was threatening domestic sale of New Zealand primary goods.

Go Winston!!!

[MisterD]

Go Winston!!!

Yes, please Winston, go. Voting against this deal and continuing as Foreign Minister are incompatible positions, if you really disagree chuck in your cards and hand back those baubles you didn't want in the first place...f-ing ligger.

[Flatcap]

* increasing levels of food imported from China which was threatening domestic sale of New Zealand primary goods.


Goose tongues, pizzles, fishsauce and a variety of obscure foodstuffs - I can't see anyone buying Chinese beef, lamb or chicken....

[Conquiztador]

Goose tongues, pizzles, fishsauce and a variety of obscure foodstuffs - I can't see anyone buying Chinese beef, lamb or chicken....

And when you go to a restaurant, how do you know if what they are serving you are those freerange chickens from Whangarei or the cheep battery ones from China??? Ppl run restaurants to make profit. Wonder which one they settle for...

[Conquiztador]

NZ will become part of China soon enough. If they can do it to Tibet then why not NZ...


Here, the latest:

"Chinese firms set to bid for Wellington's power network

Two Chinese companies are bidding separately for Wellington's power grid, Forbes magazine says.

The two are State Grid Corp -- China's largest electricity distributor -- and Hong Kong-based Cheung Kong Infrastructure Holdings Ltd (CKI), a listed infrastructure company indirectly controlled by tycoon Li Ka-shing.

They are vying to buy the network from Vector Ltd, the largest electricity and gas distributor in New Zealand, which is seeking funds to pay off $US600 million ($NZ763 million) of debt due between this month and October, the magazine said.

The Wellington grid accounts for about 23 percent of Vector's power delivery capability.

State Grid and CKI will file their bids this week, according to the report, and another bidder is expected to be Australia's Westpac and its infrastructure fund Hastings Funds Management.

The winning bid may be over $US1 billion, according to the South China Morning Post.

Vector's biggest assets are its power and gas networks in Auckland, and pipelines delivering natural gas around the North Island.

It hired Goldman Sachs JBWere Ltd last August to manage the Wellington sale after receiving approaches from potential buyers.

"The process regarding the potential sale of the Wellington network is continuing," Vector told the Bloomberg newsagency.

Vector shares were up nearly 6 percent at $1.93.

Its share price fell 42 percent in the year ended March 31, almost three times the decline in the benchmark NZX 50 index, on concern increasing regulation will reduce future earnings.

State Grid will file its bid later this week, the South China Morning Post said.

Initial offers already exceed the company's assessment of an "appropriate value" and a sale was possible in the second quarter, chairman Michael Stiassny said on February 14."

[Conquiztador]

Yes, please Winston, go. Voting against this deal and continuing as Foreign Minister are incompatible positions, if you really disagree chuck in your cards and hand back those baubles you didn't want in the first place...f-ing ligger.

Sadly you have not understood MMP. But I leave that up to you to sort out.

Helen Clark is OK with it, and she is the one in charge...

[MisterD]

Sadly you have not understood MMP. But I leave that up to you to sort out.

Helen Clark is OK with it, and she is the one in charge...

You're happy that the face of our government to the rest of the world can't agree to government policy on something as important as a trade deal with our 4th biggest trading partner? Just one more example of why MMP is a bunch of arse.

Clark just doesn't want to make a bad look worse.

[Conquiztador]

You're happy that the face of our government to the rest of the world can't agree to government policy on something as important as a trade deal with our 4th biggest trading partner? Just one more example of why MMP is a bunch of arse.

Clark just doesn't want to make a bad look worse.

Well, I disagree with the deal. And so does Winston. 10 years down the track when all we have is Chinese plastic crap, Chinese dolphins in tuna cans, Chinese ownership of all our assets, then you might see why...

[tri boy]

1800 Chinese workers aye.
Could 1000 of those be nurses please, to ease the strain on our local crew.

[Grahameeboy]

Food for perspective

In 1903 British troops mowed down 1000's of Tibetan soldiers and citizens and imprisoned Tibetan Ministers who were anti-British.

Tibet was part of China until the Tibetan's decided to impose independance in 1911...they had historically banned all foreigners from entering Tibet...in 1949 China decided to reclaim it's land...

China has it's eye on the World...so does America.

China does excecute 1000's of Chinese who speak out against the Govt...Helen wants to Ban NZer's from having opinions during an election period...

How many people have been 'quietly' executed by America over the years who were "trouble".

Have you ever met a an unfriendly and ungenerous Chinese person?

[Marmoot]

what the fuck is with free trade with China?
Get the fucking lost, china. We don't need their money here.
We'd rather grow stuff and eat them ourselves. Why sell it when we can eat it ourselves.
We don't need fucking exports. They only take stuff away from our table.
And we don't need fucking imports because we can grow/make those ourselves. Buy Kiwi you fucken faggots (yea, kiwi instant noodles rock!)
And because we don't need fucking imports then we don't need fucking exports to make us money.
We don't need fucking chinese immigrants too. We have our own kiwi talents. Ban the fucking travel to australia to stop them braindraining! Come Iron Curtain policy! It's called fucken hellengrad for nothing otherwise.
We don't need the fucking world because we can grow our own shits here. No religion to debate, no immigrants problems, no free trade problem, no problem!
Let's call it The People's Democratic Republic of Amish New Zealand of the Year 1219 and bury our heads in the sand because we are the lonely star in the South Pacific.

Bravo with our fucking effort to put our fucking country into a fucking cryogenic sleep.

[MisterD]

Well, I disagree with the deal. And so does Winston. 10 years down the track when all we have is Chinese plastic crap, Chinese dolphins in tuna cans, Chinese ownership of all our assets, then you might see why...

China has the cost base to out compete our industry regardless of the small tariffs we still have - we're up to our eyeballs in Chinese manufactured goods now, and we're 51st in their list of trading partners. Abolishing those tariffs is farting in addition to thunder.

What this agreement gives us is preferential access to the fastest growing middle class in the world...at least for a short time.

***Edit***
You and Winston have a perfect right to disagree, the point I was making is that a deal brokered by The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade should be supported by the Foreign Minister, or that minister should resign.

[Grahameeboy]

what the fuck is with free trade with China?
Get the fucking lost, china. We don't need their money here.
We'd rather grow stuff and eat them ourselves. Why sell it when we can eat it ourselves.
We don't need fucking exports. They only take stuff away from our table.
And we don't need fucking imports because we can grow/make those ourselves. Buy Kiwi you fucken faggots (yea, kiwi instant noodles rock!)
And because we don't need fucking imports then we don't need fucking exports to make us money.
We don't need fucking chinese immigrants too. We have our own kiwi talents. Ban the fucking travel to australia to stop them braindraining! Come Iron Curtain policy! It's called fucken hellengrad for nothing otherwise.
We don't need the fucking world because we can grow our own shits here. No religion to debate, no immigrants problems, no free trade problem, no problem!
Let's call it The People's Democratic Republic of Amish New Zealand of the Year 1219 and bury our heads in the sand because we are the lonely star in the South Pacific.

Bravo with our fucking effort to put our fucking country into a fucking cryogenic sleep.

Good troll

Yep we can make:

Our own cars / trucks
Our own motorbikes
Our own aeroplanes
All our fruit and veges so we don't export
All our food and have a limited choice
Our own clothes and look life farmers
Our own beer which will turn us all into teetoterlers

plus who is going to run our Dairies...

Yep "Made in NZ"..."Good on ya mate"...

[Coldrider]

One of Muldoons election campaign's was of Labours 'Reds under the Beds",
Later, rather than sooner it has happened.

[MisterD]

One of Muldoons election campaign's was of Labours 'Reds under the Beds",
Later, rather than sooner it has happened.

Given the shortage of nurses, hopefully it will be more like "Reds beside the beds".

[Marmoot]

Good troll

It's not a troll . It's a sad truth of what some of us want us to become :(

sadly, keeping young is NOT the same as keeping backwards

[avgas]

Allignment with Communist China = VERY BAD!
Agreed - now go find me communist china

[Marmoot]

Agreed - now go find me communist china

Anyone in the Labour government: Take from the rich and give to the poor in a welfare state.

Actually, Robin Hood is the earliest example of communism

[Grahameeboy]

It's not a troll . It's a sad truth of what some of us want us to become :(

sadly, keeping young is NOT the same as keeping backwards

Yep that is a sad expectation I am sorry to say and a rather narrowminded one (nothing personal)

[Grahameeboy]

It's not a troll . It's a sad truth of what some of us want us to become :(

sadly, keeping young is NOT the same as keeping backwards

Your bling

So lets not trade with America for all their wrong doings, invading Countries at will, threatening to invade other countries who don't toe the line or even Australia for the way they have treated the Aborigines...

Great so we get invaded by poverty and self destruction...and Winston Peters

[Wingnut]

With these topics there always appears to be more to it than we realise. Instead of giving some half assed response I will just read your opinions on this matter. I just don't know enough about it to have an opinion.

[98tls]

Sorry how was he good??....Muldoon was singularly responsible for N.Z become near bankrupt. Remember car less days?...18% mortgages?.... a megalomaniac who appeared drunk on T.V and who after losing the election refused to step down?
I remember those days well, Muldoon was delusional, a fuckwit of the highest order, and as close to Mugabe as we have ever seen in N.Z politics.
He was in short the worst P.M we have had in the last hundred years. As i said great for me but not necessarily the country in general,mind you depends how you look at it,for my money both morally and financially the biggest fuck-up this country has ever had in charge is the one that allowed people to garnish there income by having children they wouldnt otherwise have had if they had to pay for there upbringing themselves.Wahoo i look forward to retiring comfortable in the knowledge that my hard work has helped many to further instil bludging as a skill worth teaching.Muldoon wrongs are easy to overcome but the precedents of todays government we will be paying for infinitely.