Lane-splitting at 90kph!

[fizbin]

O.K. WTF
Some is alive by the grace of my quick reactions
This moring on my way to work (in my cage :( ) traveling around 90 on the motorway it is fairly dark as i start work at 630am some idot comes screaming up the inside of me doing well over 120 judgeing by how fast he came up and whent passed me, and then had to slow down to the speed that traffic was travelling at as the car infront of me didn't see him coming and drifted toward the middle. I had to jam on my brakes to miss running up the back of him, the car behind me damed near hits me. What a DICK!
his rear end missed my front end by a matter of an inch or so!.
He didn't even look back wave to say sorry mate, nothing as soon as he got the gap off he whent again splitting at well over 100.
If it was someone from this site then you know who you are and you are a very luck person! had i not had the reactions i did then you would have become the meat between me and another car!

[ManDownUnder]

Which motorway, what kind of bike, which direction?

[EJK]

I'm guessing NW Motorway?? Cause thats where all the dickheads play high speed lane splitting :nono:

[xwhatsit]

Splitting at 90kph isn't too frightful. It sounds scary and dangerous but, as you know, it's all in relative speeds. I've no issue doing 100kph down one of the motorcycle middle-lanes if the traffic is doing 80kph. Not that I do, often. Jim2 often spouts the argument that you're much safer in a motorcycle lane than part of regular traffic, as nose-to-tails are regular threats, and in either situation you still have to worry about people changing lanes into you. I think I'm starting to agree; although I mostly stick in a car lane above 50-60kph, unless I start feeling threatened.

I'm only talking about really heavy traffic here.

Of course the guy was a twat for jumping into your space. I'm not disputing that. Just pointing out that high-speed splitting on its own is not necessarily an evil thing.

[Finn]

O.K. WTF
Some is alive by the grace of my quick reactions
This moring on my way to work (in my cage :( ) traveling around 90 on the motorway it is fairly dark as i start work at 630am some idot comes screaming up the inside of me doing well over 120 judgeing by how fast he came up and whent passed me, and then had to slow down to the speed that traffic was travelling at as the car infront of me didn't see him coming and drifted toward the middle. I had to jam on my brakes to miss running up the back of him, the car behind me damed near hits me.

Well what the fuck were you doing in the right lane? People like you should have their licenses suspended and fined $1000. The more lanes you give kiwi's, the more they just spread out and fuck around.

Keep left, pay attention or take the fucken bus.

[Edbear]

...Of course the guy was a twat for jumping into your space. I'm not disputing that. Just pointing out that high-speed splitting on its own is not necessarily an evil thing.


Yeah he was an idiot, but I take issue, (nicely of course...!:rolleyes:), with your comment about high-speed splitting. It is dangerous for the fact that car drivers are always changing lanes in heavy traffic to try to get an advantage and they don't always indicate, or if they do, it is often a single flick and a sudden move!

I won't split if the traffic is moving at 60km/h+ and when I do split it is fairly cautiously. When I'm in a car, I am constantly checking my mirrors for bikes, but even so I have often been startled at the speed they come up behind me!:spanking:

[ManDownUnder]

Keep left, pay attention or take the fucken bus.

There's a fucken bus?

OOoooo - quite right there is (http://www.bangbus.com/)!

[Ixion]

Well what the fuck were you doing in the right lane? ....

More to the point, what the fuck were you doing in a cage?

[xwhatsit]

Yeah he was an idiot, but I take issue, (nicely of course...!:rolleyes:), with your comment about high-speed splitting. It is dangerous for the fact that car drivers are always changing lanes in heavy traffic to try to get an advantage and they don't always indicate, or if they do, it is often a single flick and a sudden move!

I won't split if the traffic is moving at 60km/h+ and when I do split it is fairly cautiously. When I'm in a car, I am constantly checking my mirrors for bikes, but even so I have often been startled at the speed they come up behind me!:spanking:

Well let's deconstruct that. If I'm doing 80kph, and the cars around me are doing 60kph, what's the difference between when I'm doing 60kph and the cars are doing 40kph? The only difference, really, is that the ground is travelling underneath us a bit quicker (so if it turns to custard, I'll be eating tarmac at 80kph instead of 60kph). Cars, in my experience, tend to change lanes with more warning at higher speeds. They indicate for longer and seem to check their mirrors more thoroughly. That's just my experience, though.

Of course, at higher speeds, the RS isn't quite so sharp to accelerate or change direction. However when we're talking of the difference between 60kph and 80kph then it's still within acceptable levels. And around us, the cars aren't able to stop so quickly or change direction so quickly. Which heightens the danger for us when we're in a car lane (nose-to-tails etc.), but helps us when we're splitting.

When I first heard Jim2 talking about this kind of stuff, I was sceptical. It seemingly goes against common-sense. But when you look at it closer, you realise the truth.

[megageoff76]

But when you look at it closer, you realise the truth.

Sounds like youve been watching the Matrix a little too much..

[Morcs]

Oi! im one of the cnuts who canes it down the NW (sometimes)

I give myself just 25 minutes to get from west harbour to onehunga every morning...

[Forest]

The danger isn't so much the speed of the lane splitter, but rather the difference in speed between the splitter and the slower traffic.

[Edbear]

The danger isn't so much the speed of the lane splitter, but rather the difference in speed between the splitter and the slower traffic.


...when they collide...

However, it is also true that "The Faster You Go, The Bigger The Mess".

The difference between hitting a car/truck at 60km/h and 80km/h is significant and although I have weaved across lanes when average traffic speeds are 90km/h, (duly indicating and checking before changing lanes, of course...), it's not really "splitting" as such.

[fizbin]

Which motorway, what kind of bike, which direction?
North western around St Lukes


I'm guessing NW Motorway?? Cause thats where all the dickheads play high speed lane splitting :nono:
yeah i am a nana when i lane split i guess i dont want to orphan my kids


Splitting at 90kph isn't too frightful. It sounds scary and dangerous but, as you know, it's all in relative speeds. I've no issue doing 100kph down one of the motorcycle middle-lanes if the traffic is doing 80kph. Not that I do, often. Jim2 often spouts the argument that you're much safer in a motorcycle lane than part of regular traffic, as nose-to-tails are regular threats, and in either situation you still have to worry about people changing lanes into you. I think I'm starting to agree; although I mostly stick in a car lane above 50-60kph, unless I start feeling threatened.

I'm only talking about really heavy traffic here.

Of course the guy was a twat for jumping into your space. I'm not disputing that. Just pointing out that high-speed splitting on its own is not necessarily an evil thing.
yeah i only do like 30-35 through traffic but i guess that is because i am new to biking. but my point is at that speed all it would take is for a car to drift in a lane a small amount and that would end the end of you


Well what the fuck were you doing in the right lane? People like you should have their licenses suspended and fined $1000. The more lanes you give kiwi's, the more they just spread out and fuck around.

Keep left, pay attention or take the fucken bus.
ummmm.... yeah..... don't quite know what to say there... anyone else?



I won't split if the traffic is moving at 60km/h+ and when I do split it is fairly cautiously. When I'm in a car, I am constantly checking my mirrors for bikes, but even so I have often been startled at the speed they come up behind me!:spanking:
yeah since i have started to bike my whole perception for bike have changed i am more aware of them, give way more that sort of thing




More to the point, what the fuck were you doing in a cage?
see my previous post bike is dead hit by cage



Oi! im one of the cnuts who canes it down the NW (sometimes)

I give myself just 25 minutes to get from west harbour to onehunga every morning...
made you peace with god???:buggerd:


...when they collide...

However, it is also true that "The Faster You Go, The Bigger The Mess".

The difference between hitting a car/truck at 60km/h and 80km/h is significant and although I have weaved across lanes when average traffic speeds are 90km/h, (duly indicating and checking before changing lanes, of course...), it's not really "splitting" as such.

i have just recently been knocked off my bike in the exact same spot as a friend of mine. difference is he was doing 80kph and i was doing 30
he got a broken arm and 6 months of physio to fix his back and he still walks with a limp. i came off with almost no bruising and a sore back! there is a big difference in speed when you are travelling in traffic:doctor:

[sAsLEX]

If he was splitting he would of been in lane 2A....... and you should of been in 2 or 3 etc you probably over reacted braked too suddenly and target fixated on him rather than looking at the space next to him ........:yes:

[sAsLEX]

However, it is also true that "The Faster You Go, The Bigger The Mess".

The difference between hitting a car/truck at 60km/h and 80km/h is significant

Yeah if you smash into the guy doing 60 at 90 you are in trouble, where as if you hit the guy at 80 whilst going 90...........

You listen to the radio/tv too much.

[Brett]

Oi! im one of the cnuts who canes it down the NW (sometimes)

I give myself just 25 minutes to get from west harbour to onehunga every morning...

Nothing wrong with that. I do Pakuranga to Kumeu each day in about 35 mins at the legal speed limit.

[Morcs]

Nothing wrong with that. I do Pakuranga to Kumeu each day in about 35 mins at the legal speed limit.

Would that be the legal speed limit of no more than 20kph faster than the cars, upto 50kph whilst lane splitting? :D

[Swoop]

North western around St Lukes
Phew, wasn't me then...:rolleyes:

I was terrorising the northern m-way last evening. What a fu*ked up piece of road that is!!!

[Forest]

...when they collide...


I was thinking more about the rider's visibility.

When you're lane splitting at say 40km/h faster then the surrounding traffic, then a cage driver probably won't see you when he checks his mirrors before changing lanes.

[Kittyhawk]

If you are lane splitting fast enough by the time a cage reacts the biker has already passed:whistle:

[Usarka]

the rider wasnt wearing gloves either......

[jrandom]

If you are lane splitting fast enough by the time a cage reacts the biker has already passed:whistle:

Kittyhawk speaks truth.

One of the keys to safe filtering, I've found, is to figure out the limitations of what the cars can do in a certain space and time, and to get through the available gaps with enough briskness to minimise the possibility of being taken out by any of the maneuvers that could be pulled if they haven't realised I'm there.

That doesn't necessarily imply tearing through traffic Ghost Rider style, but rather putting oneself in a safe position as much as possible and spending the shortest amount of time possible in less-safe positions. Actually, if you watch the Ghost Rider videos carefully, even he takes that approach.

Of course, when the cars are stopped or barely moving and have nowhere to go, riding up the 'bike lane' between them becomes a straightforward exercise.

[Edbear]

I was thinking more about the rider's visibility.

When you're lane splitting at say 40km/h faster then the surrounding traffic, then a cage driver probably won't see you when he checks his mirrors before changing lanes.


Agreed, mind you, I don't trust them to see me no matter what speed I'm doing....

[Kittyhawk]

the rider wasnt wearing gloves either......

what about underpants?:oi-grr:

[Ragingrob]

Well what the fuck were you doing in the right lane? People like you should have their licenses suspended and fined $1000. The more lanes you give kiwi's, the more they just spread out and fuck around.

Keep left, pay attention or take the fucken bus.

Can I say, what the fuck? Why can't he be in the right lane? He was keeping left... He was paying attention...

So, what the fuck?

[Weaver]

Kittyhawk speaks truth.

One of the keys to safe filtering, I've found, is to figure out the limitations of what the cars can do in a certain space and time, and to get through the available gaps with enough briskness to minimise the possibility of being taken out by any of the maneuvers that could be pulled if they haven't realised I'm there.

That doesn't necessarily imply tearing through traffic Ghost Rider style, but rather putting oneself in a safe position as much as possible and spending the shortest amount of time possible in less-safe positions. Actually, if you watch the Ghost Rider videos carefully, even he takes that approach.

Of course, when the cars are stopped or barely moving and have nowhere to go, riding up the 'bike lane' between them becomes a straightforward exercise.


In addition, the faster a car is traveling the longer it takes to change direction. A car doing 100kph can't just quickly flick the wheel and change lane like a bike can. If they tried, they would soon find them selves in the barrier.
I feel alot more comfortable splitting traffic thats moving around 80kph than traffic thats crawling around 20kph

[Ixion]

An important lane splitting wisdom is that the REAR of a car can't move sideways much at all. But the front can. Watch the front wheels.

(Lane splitting is dangerous and of doubtful legality. nana does not endorse it and you should not do it, except for urgent medical reasons (eg, being terminally sick of being held up, that's medical, right) )

[sAsLEX]

nana does not endorse it

But nana says always trust your spidey sense

[Finn]

Can I say, what the fuck? Why can't he be in the right lane? He was keeping left... He was paying attention...

So, what the fuck?

How do you keep left in the right lane dumbo?

[Weaver]

I think what Finn is trying to say is that people who sit in the right lane obviously can't read english. The signs say "Keep left unless passing".
Of course you won't be able to read this post, but you enjoy looking at the pretty colours.

[NOMIS]

I terrorise the n.w motorway every morning, 20min to town from lincoln. some prick wont give me room i wait for a gap and kick it down to 16,000rpm next to his/her window.

[Ixion]

But nana says always trust your spidey sense

Yes. That above all. And watch out for cops.

[Swoop]

(eg, being terminally sick of being held up, that's medical, right) )
Mental health reasons also apply here. Sitting in traffic (especially for cagers) is not good for your mental health.
Just think of the money we are helping the gubbinment save, by NOT having to pay out on restorative care for these sufferers.

[Finn]

I think what Finn is trying to say is that people who sit in the right lane obviously can't read english. The signs say "Keep left unless passing".
Of course you won't be able to read this post, but you enjoy looking at the pretty colours.

Thank you. A rather simple concept, but not as simple as a kiwi behind a steering wheel.

[sAsLEX]

Yes. That above all. And watch out for cops.

And men in hats!

[Ragingrob]

How do you keep left in the right lane dumbo?

Fair enough well why did you say keep left then lol?

PS I can keep left in the right lane if I wanted to... Can't you?

[Ragingrob]

I think what Finn is trying to say is that people who sit in the right lane obviously can't read english. The signs say "Keep left unless passing".
Of course you won't be able to read this post, but you enjoy looking at the pretty colours.

On the Motorway there are signs saying keep left unless passing? Really?

PS : Maybe you should be the one trying to read the original post?

[xwhatsit]

On the Motorway there are signs saying keep left unless passing? Really?

No, I haven't seen those in NZ yet. Qld put a whole lot up years ago, such a thing might be useful here if the average cager would read it.

[YellowDog]

Kittyhawk speaks truth.

One of the keys to safe filtering, I've found, is to figure out the limitations of what the cars can do in a certain space and time, and to get through the available gaps with enough briskness to minimise the possibility of being taken out by any of the maneuvers that could be pulled if they haven't realised I'm there.

That doesn't necessarily imply tearing through traffic Ghost Rider style, but rather putting oneself in a safe position as much as possible and spending the shortest amount of time possible in less-safe positions. Actually, if you watch the Ghost Rider videos carefully, even he takes that approach.

Of course, when the cars are stopped or barely moving and have nowhere to go, riding up the 'bike lane' between them becomes a straightforward exercise.
Well Yes, I do tend to agree with this however your speed does need to be relative to the traffic and conditions.

I would label myself as a lane splitter and consider myself to be highly conscious of what cars might do (like change lane into a gap) so I do feel quite confident. I must say, I have planted the odd glove firmly on the front wing of a missbehaving car changing lane without indicating, however I do feel confident that unlewss they hit by back wheel, they won't if my speed is right; you can out manouver and follow whatever line you need to to avoid problems.

I do cringe when I see bikers splitting lanes at the same speed as the traffic and sitting in blind spots of other road users. They may as well sit in the lane. It would be far safer!

[YellowDog]

Thank you. A rather simple concept, but not as simple as a kiwi behind a steering wheel.
Surely in traffic, all three lanes are the same. The left lane is for getting off the motorway and the other two are the same. At least I think that is what he meant?

I don't think the initial post suggests that the right lane was being hogged whilst the other two were free.

[sinfull]

Kittyhawk speaks truth.

One of the keys to safe filtering, I've found, is to figure out the limitations of what the cars can do in a certain space and time, and to get through the available gaps with enough briskness to minimise the possibility of being taken out by any of the maneuvers that could be pulled if they haven't realised I'm there.

That doesn't necessarily imply tearing through traffic Ghost Rider style, but rather putting oneself in a safe position as much as possible and spending the shortest amount of time possible in less-safe positions. Actually, if you watch the Ghost Rider videos carefully, even he takes that approach.

Of course, when the cars are stopped or barely moving and have nowhere to go, riding up the 'bike lane' between them becomes a straightforward exercise.

What he said !!! You snooze you lose !!!

[sinfull]

Fair enough well why did you say keep left then lol?

PS I can keep left in the right lane if I wanted to... Can't you?

Remind me to watch this fella if i ever ride with him !!

[Weaver]

Remind me to watch this fella if i ever ride with him !!

I'll remind you myself

[Swoop]

The left lane is for getting off the motorway and the other two are the same.
Makes me wonder, when I see a cage taking the left hand lane exit from the motorway, starting from the right hand lane. Can't these fuckwits think ahead? Keep left and you do not have this problem.

Fucking kiwi drivers!

[90s]

Well let's deconstruct that. If I'm doing 80kph, and the cars around me are doing 60kph, what's the difference between when I'm doing 60kph and the cars are doing 40kph? The only difference, really, is that the ground is travelling underneath us a bit quicker

Braking distances, intertia (mental and physical) etc etc
There's a lot of difference - and most of it comes down to risk tolerance. I split usually up to about 60kph on the NW. At certain points (like the GN Rd turn off) traffic starts to do erratic things - sudden lane changes etc etc - and I play it cautiously. I know that my own splitting tolerance, but I also know at higher speeds it is harder should the unexpected happen.

[xwhatsit]

Braking distances, intertia (mental and physical) etc etc

Which is all shared by the cars next to us. It's all in our minds.

It all made a lot more sense to me after I watched 2001: A Space Odyssey again. Watching the spaceships dock, how they enter the rotation where they're spinning but it seems to be dead still because the station they're docking with is moving at the same speed.

The ground beneath us is all that has changed -- and hopefully we never need to worry about the ground.

[skidMark]

Oi! im one of the cnuts who canes it down the NW (sometimes)

I give myself just 25 minutes to get from west harbour to onehunga every morning...

I did my old house In panmure to westage in 20 mins flat at rush hour a few times.

Till i stacked into a van doing 20kph at 80kph.

That hurt...

Alot.

It does depend on the situation though on straight bits of motorway at calmer times traffic doing 110 ish nicely spread out ive comfortably sat on 170-185. Back in the day.

[Morcs]

I did my old house In panmure to westage in 20 mins flat at rush hour a few times.

Till i stacked into a van doing 20kph at 80kph.

That hurt...

Alot.

It does depend on the situation though on straight bits of motorway at calmer times traffic doing 110 ish nicely spread out ive comfortably sat on 170-185. Back in the day.

Key word: Once

I have to do it twice. Every day.

And to do it the next day, I have to stay alive.

[The Stranger]

PS : Maybe you should be the one trying to read the original post?

Maybe you should get a NZ driver license.
You could start studying here (http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/keeping-left.html).

Still, doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, just as long as you are arguing is the important thing.

[Ragingrob]

Maybe you should get a NZ driver license.
You could start studying here (http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/keeping-left.html).

Still, doesn't matter if you are right or wrong, just as long as you are arguing is the important thing.

Um I don't quite understand why you're saying this? I'm saying that there are no signs on the motorway saying keep left unless passing... What's this got to do with the road code? I have a full car and restricted motorbike licence... sooo... pardon?

If I don't keep left on the motorway I will cause a head on crash? Hmmm... moron...

[Usarka]

Um I don't quite understand why you're saying this? I'm saying that there are no signs on the motorway saying keep left unless passing... What's this got to do with the road code? I have a full car and restricted motorbike licence... sooo... pardon?

Do all road rules need to be signposted on the motorway? :gob:


piss off officer, there were no signs saying i had to indicate!

[Ragingrob]

Do all road rules need to be signposted on the motorway? :gob:


piss off officer, there were no signs saying i had to indicate!

Ok, so this thread is about a motorcyclist lane splitting in traffic at 90kph... On a busy motorway do you expect people to keep left unless "passing"?? Haha. I don't quite think that's a road rule... It's not actually a road rule anyway to keep left unless passing on the motorway.

[Ragingrob]

Anyway I've gotta head into town now, hope I don't get pulled over for riding in the right lane on the motorway when I'm not passing! :chase:

[The Stranger]

Ok, so this thread is about a motorcyclist lane splitting in traffic at 90kph... On a busy motorway do you expect people to keep left unless "passing"?? Haha. I don't quite think that's a road rule... It's not actually a road rule anyway to keep left unless passing on the motorway.

Hanlon was very sharp.

Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

So what is it ragingknob, malice or stupidity?
Please say you are just winding us up.

[Tank]

Regardless of what 'we' think of lane splitting at 90kms.

The vast majority of cage drivers will think you are a wanker for doing it.

Then once enough people start thinking that then it becomes 'common knowledge' that all bikers ride like wankers.

When it becomes 'common knowledge' our friendly g'ment steps in and legislates against bikers to help save 'all' of us from ourselves.

Then it becomes illegal to do any lane splitting.

Sometimes to does pay to think about how others view our actions.

[90s]

Which is all shared by the cars next to us. It's all in our minds.

Not really relevant.
A car can suddenly flick from one lane to another at 60k and 80k without much difference. The difference is braking distance to you and the thinking time needed to you is appreciable.

The fast cars go the harder it is for them to lane flick. But it is quite easy for them in the typical "splitters window" of 60-90kph. At the start of the window it is much easier for us to anticipate and avoid problems than at the top end. Some of this is a function of relative speed - cars standing still and you splitting at 90kph there is simply to much information you miss to ride within reasonable control of the situation. Split at 80 when the cars are at 60 its easier.
Further to this, split at 100 when the cars are at 80 is not the same.

[Weaver]

I'm saying that there are no signs on the motorway saying keep left unless passing... What's this got to do with the road code?

This tells me that you have NEVER been on a state highway in the lower North Island. Can't remember if there are any of the keep left signs further up north. I'm so used to seeing them every day I tend not say to myself "Wow, yet another keep left sign"

Heres a picture of one of these signs. I took it especially for you :hug:

[Ixion]

Not really relevant.
A car can suddenly flick from one lane to another at 60k and 80k without much difference. The difference is braking distance to you and the thinking time needed to you is appreciable.

The fast cars go the harder it is for them to lane flick. But it is quite easy for them in the typical "splitters window" of 60-90kph. At the start of the window it is much easier for us to anticipate and avoid problems than at the top end. Some of this is a function of relative speed - cars standing still and you splitting at 90kph there is simply to much information you miss to ride within reasonable control of the situation. Split at 80 when the cars are at 60 its easier.
Further to this, split at 100 when the cars are at 80 is not the same.

Well, not even a cage is going to 'flick' from one lane to another at 60kph , if doing so will take him into the side of another cage.

By definition, lane splitting is when the traffic is so heavy that there are few or any gaps. No gaps, cages won't lane change.

When gaps start top open up a wise biker assumes the cages will always lane change into them. No point splitting the lanes when there's free olane space.

And if there's enough gaps for the cages to be lane changing, and one changes in front of you, don't brake. Braking is not a preferred motorcycle mechanism. If there's gaps enough for the cage to lane change there's gaps enough for you to dodge. Just go round him.

[90s]

Well, not even a cage is going to 'flick' from one lane to another at 60kph , if doing so will take him into the side of another cage.

By definition, lane splitting is when the traffic is so heavy that there are few or any gaps. No gaps, cages won't lane change.

When gaps start top open up a wise biker assumes the cages will always lane change into them. No point splitting the lanes when there's free olane space.

Well, in 20 yrs of splitting I have not always found this to be the case. And there are places such as the GT North Rd exit & the Lincoln Rd exits from SH16 I travel most days where cages will flick onto lanes without there nesc. being a space for them. Large vehicles & 4x4 often think they can create their own gap - without checking behind - as anything in the way would be forced to slam on their brakes rather than be crushed by them.
Another reason for swerving cages in traffic is the above - heck that 4x4 is simply moving into my lane AGHH - must swerve. You get a 'wave' effect accross the traffic.
I see the above example again and again and also on arterial dual lane rds such as the Gt North & Rata st.
And guess what - plenty of accidents are caused in these situations. In the easter break I saw 3 accidents of these types within an hour on SH1 out of Auckland. It took me 1 3/4 hours to get out of the city that day.

You attribute rationality where empirically I have found little. And I ride with that knowledge in mind.

[xwhatsit]

You attribute rationality where empirically I have found little. And I ride with that knowledge in mind.

That is a truth I think I'll try and hold onto when riding.

Another weird spot of localised cager madness is the (northbound) short bit between the Newmarket Gillies Ave onramp, and the Khyber Pass offramp. There's a sort of merging/mixing section there where people duck and dive all over the place in a rush to get from the fourth lane to the exit lane in 200 metres.

[fizbin]

Anyway I've gotta head into town now, hope I don't get pulled over for riding in the right lane on the motorway when I'm not passing! :chase:

Sorry i have to agree with Ragingrob here. I was going to keep out of this but i have to say somthing!:argue:
There is no fast lane in new zealand. one driver wether it be bike or cage has just as much right as the next to drive in what ever lane they wish be it lane 1,2,3 on a motorway.
my point was splitting when traffic is already moving at pace is irrasponsible as well a danger for you and the cars you are passing.:angry2:
one minor adjustment from a car in that sort of traffic and there would be no about that you would end up under some persons car. i then would ot be blaming the car for that.
bikes that think they own the raod i would bet cause a lot more accidents than they would like to think.

[Usarka]

Sorry i have to agree with Ragingrob here. I was going to keep out of this but i have to say somthing!:argue:
There is no fast lane in new zealand. one driver wether it be bike or cage has just as much right as the next to drive in what ever lane they wish be it lane 1,2,3 on a motorway..

re-read El Strango's post / link



Where there are two or more lanes on your side of the centre line:

keep in the left-hand lane as much as you can
don't use the lane closest to the centre line if you will hold up other vehicles.


The lane closest to the centre line should only be used when:

you want to pass another vehicle
you want to turn right
the left-hand lane is full with other traffic or is blocked.

[avgas]

motorbikes a bad - HTFU or drive

[90s]

Sorry i have to agree with Ragingrob here. I was going to keep out of this but i have to say somthing!:argue:
There is no fast lane in new zealand. one driver wether it be bike or cage has just as much right as the next to drive in what ever lane they wish be it lane 1,2,3 on a motorway.

Re-inforcing Usurka the above quote is TOTALLY INCORRECT. If you think this you really need to learn how to ride.

From LTNZ:
"When driving on a motorway:keep left, unless you are passing"
http://www.landtransport.govt.nz/roadcode/about-driving/motorway-driving.html

It is a bane of driving in NZ that people and even some police I have spoken to do not understand this.
There is no "overtaking lane" on a motorway in ANY country. In countries with lane discipline there are lanes, and you are required to drive in the left lane unless overtaking.
NZ is one.
In countries without lane discipline you can drive in any lane on a motorway.
NZ is NOT one.

People that sit in the middle or right lane ("fast") for no other reason than laziness or because they don't want to move in and out of lanes as required cause disruption, create congestion, add to uncertainty (I have been invovled in traffic flow modelling that proves this) and probably have caused global warming and sub-prime crisis (evidence less clear).

As the saying goes - "burn them"

[ElCoyote]

Ok, so this thread is about a motorcyclist lane splitting in traffic at 90kph... On a busy motorway do you expect people to keep left unless "passing"?? Haha. I don't quite think that's a road rule... It's not actually a road rule anyway to keep left unless passing on the motorway.


It "IS" an offence to fail to keep as near left as practicable. Oh......and always has been.!!

[ElCoyote]

This tells me that you have NEVER been on a state highway in the lower North Island. Can't remember if there are any of the keep left signs further up north. I'm so used to seeing them every day I tend not say to myself "Wow, yet another keep left sign"

You are quite correct about the open road and passing lanes but they are not posted on "motorways". Why I don't know. They are in Australia where staying in the outside lane merits a serious fine or a Kenworh for a trailer.

[skidMark]

If you are lane splitting fast enough by the time a cage reacts the biker has already passed:whistle:


Exactly, which is why i do it fast, safer than doing it slow...

Mean idiots don't open thier doors on you etc, ive gone past people by the time they react and open thier door to be an asshole i have already gone past.

At which point you can give them ze bird.

[Ragingrob]

This tells me that you have NEVER been on a state highway in the lower North Island. Can't remember if there are any of the keep left signs further up north. I'm so used to seeing them every day I tend not say to myself "Wow, yet another keep left sign"

Heres a picture of one of these signs. I took it especially for you :hug:

Bro.... First of all this is not a motorway, it's a highway, going into a passing lane. Completely irrelevant to this thread...OK?

[Ragingrob]

It "IS" an offence to fail to keep as near left as practicable. Oh......and always has been.!!

Really? Why is not everyone in the left lane on the empty motorway then? Cops always cruise in the right lane... Tut tut! It's not an offence to drive in the right lane on the motorway!

[Weaver]

Bro.... First of all this is not a motorway, it's a highway, going into a passing lane. Completely irrelevant to this thread...OK?

Reading back through all the posts, I've noticed that you have been saying motorway the whole time. I do apologise. Never the less, keep left.

[sAsLEX]

It's not an offence to drive in the right lane on the motorway!

Its fuckin stupid though..... but you are allowed to do it.


So carry on being a fucktard and I will use the often unused far left lane and pass everyone on the inside.

[ElCoyote]

Really? Why is not everyone in the left lane on the empty motorway then? Cops always cruise in the right lane... Tut tut! It's not an offence to drive in the right lane on the motorway!

Yes it is as you are not as far left as practicable. Empty or not it is an offence.

[90s]

Really? Why is not everyone in the left lane on the empty motorway then?

Because many of them are frickin' morons.


Cops always cruise in the right lane... Tut tut! It's not an offence to drive in the right lane on the motorway!

Yes, it is an offence not to keep left on the motorway unless overtaking.

Just because other people are driving like idiots does not make it OK for you to do it. Just because some people ride like squids does it make you want to as well (answer - probably yes ... )

[xwhatsit]

Its fuckin stupid though..... but you are allowed to do it.


So carry on being a fucktard and I will use the often unused far left lane and pass everyone on the inside.

Hahah yes, it's funny how often I cruise past at 110kph in a left lane all the cars sitting in the fast lane at 90kph. Auckland's `motorway' system is a bit of a behavioural anomaly at times.

[scracha]

If it was someone from this site then you know who you are and you are a

SO the dick driver changes lane without checking nor indicating but you've made it somehow the bikers fault?

[Ragingrob]

Its fuckin stupid though..... but you are allowed to do it.


So carry on being a fucktard and I will use the often unused far left lane and pass everyone on the inside.

Hold on, I've never said I ride in the right lane anyway? I often am in the left unless someone's slower in front on me... So don't call me a fucktard. I'm just saying it's not an OFFENCE to ride in the right hand lane on the motorway. Which you agree to? But yeah, I haven't said that I cruise in the right lane 24/7 at all, you have assumed it.

[Ragingrob]

Yes it is as you are not as far left as practicable. Empty or not it is an offence.


Because many of them are frickin' morons.



Yes, it is an offence not to keep left on the motorway unless overtaking.

Just because other people are driving like idiots does not make it OK for you to do it. Just because some people ride like squids does it make you want to as well (answer - probably yes ... )

It is an offence? Cops will pull you over? Really? Well if it is a fineable offence then I am sorry and will admit I'm wrong, but do you know anyone who's been fined for driving in the right hand lane of a motorway?

[NOMIS]

It is an offence? Cops will pull you over? Really? Well if it is a fineable offence then I am sorry and will admit I'm wrong, but do you know anyone who's been fined for driving in the right hand lane of a motorway?

NO!!! haha if I did i would be sure to laugh

[Jiminy]

Well let's deconstruct that. If I'm doing 80kph, and the cars around me are doing 60kph, what's the difference between when I'm doing 60kph and the cars are doing 40kph?

Your peripheral vision blurs with speed, so the faster you go, the less you will notice the signs of a car about to change lane in front of you as you are likely to look further ahead.

[Ixion]

Your peripheral vision blurs with speed, so the faster you go, the less you will notice the signs of a car about to change lane in front of you as you are likely to look further ahead.

Eh? Says who? I don't think mine does.

[Swoop]

Another weird spot of localised cager madness is the (northbound) short bit between the Newmarket Gillies Ave onramp, and the Khyber Pass offramp. There's a sort of merging/mixing section there where people duck and dive all over the place in a rush to get from the fourth lane to the exit lane in 200 metres.
This is because of the right-lane-hogging-fucktards. They have to enter the m'way at Gillies and IMMEDIATELY get into the right hand (FAST) lane... and then get back across to the Khyber Pass exit.

It is the nature of the cager. Just accept it because the plod will not do anything about it; the gubbinment will not do anything about it either.

Common courtesy to other road users was eliminated years ago, hence the retards hogging the right hand lane.

[90s]

It is an offence? Cops will pull you over? Really? Well if it is a fineable offence then I am sorry and will admit I'm wrong, but do you know anyone who's been fined for driving in the right hand lane of a motorway?

No, but I know the cop opposite my house has ticketed people both for failure to keep left on the motorway and also for driving at 40kph on the motorway. There are loads of laws that are rarely enforce, but how is that relevant?

Its the law. That it is hard to enforce and because there is about 4ks of dual carraigeway and motorway in the entire country so not an enforcement priority is not relevant at all.

It is an offence.

Are you likely to be given a ticket? No.

Does it cause traffic choas and stupidity when you ignore the rule? Yes.

So the question is, when you can get away with not doing the right thing, do you ignore the rules for your own selfish motivations?
You have been wrong from the start, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is the way you ride. Maybe you ride with perfect lane discipline and maybe not. Just maybe knowing that it exists and you will think a little bit more about the way you drive a cage.

The most annoyed people here are those like me with years of experience on European motorways doing 140kph+ as a normal cruising speed, where lack of lane discipline would mean you are toast. Here in NZ its just irritating and causes jams. :angry2:

[Ragingrob]

No, but I know the cop opposite my house has ticketed people both for failure to keep left on the motorway and also for driving at 40kph on the motorway. There are loads of laws that are rarely enforce, but how is that relevant?

Its the law. That it is hard to enforce and because there is about 4ks of dual carraigeway and motorway in the entire country so not an enforcement priority is not relevant at all.

It is an offence.

Are you likely to be given a ticket? No.

Does it cause traffic choas and stupidity when you ignore the rule? Yes.

So the question is, when you can get away with not doing the right thing, do you ignore the rules for your own selfish motivations?
You have been wrong from the start, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is the way you ride. Maybe you ride with perfect lane discipline and maybe not. Just maybe knowing that it exists and you will think a little bit more about the way you drive a cage.

The most annoyed people here are those like me with years of experience on European motorways doing 140kph+ as a normal cruising speed, where lack of lane discipline would mean you are toast. Here in NZ its just irritating and causes jams. :angry2:


Alright, thank you for a genuine reply, I don't see why people just resort to swearing and calling people fucktards. So cheers for a straight forward reply! Interesting to hear there has been ticketing cases for failing to keep left, maybe it wasn't the only factor though i.e. they were just sitting in the right lane at 90kph or so but who knows? Ticketing for 40kph is good as that's ridiculous! (Assuming the motorway is free flowing haha).

Traffic chaos and stupidity is surely only going to ensue if people are driving in the right lane at slower than passing speeds? If the right hand lane is moving at 100-110kph then it wouldn't matter would it?

When I'm riding/driving on the motorway, it is true that I am often in the right lane, but that is because I'm usually on the Auckland motorway and it usually means the right lane is going faster than the other traffic and that I am passing others. If the traffic is free-flowing I will cruise in the middle or left lane and then change to get around any upcoming slower traffic. Although, if the traffic is free-flowing then what difference does it make if I'm in the right or the left lane? I'm not entirely sure what all this chaos it results in that everyone is talking about?

Yeah I hear that over in Europe with the roads as they are, that if you are able to get your licence etc in Germany or whatever then you are/have to be a very competant driver. It would be a good thing if licence testing over here had a bit more to it so that we know other road users and ourselves have efficient knowledge and skill.

[skidMark]

NO!!! haha if I did i would be sure to laugh


I would L.O.L pretty hard G :pinch:

[90s]

Interesting to hear there has been ticketing cases for failing to keep left, maybe it wasn't the only factor though i.e. they were just sitting in the right lane at 90kph or so but who knows?

I'm pretty sure you are right in this, and if you are driving like a fule (too slow or not paying attention etc) or they want to have a look at you (suspect no warrant etc etc) they pull people over and ticket them for failure to keep left if that's all they can get them for - if they can be bothered.

Auckland central parts of SH1 & SH16 are hard for lane discipline because of the turn off where the right lane is an entry-exit lane, with a few weird ones like the end of SH16-SH1 intersection with miles of stopped middle-lane traffic and free flowing right & left lanes to the shore & city.

You can see authentic lane discipline problems really well of the SH1 between the Coromandel turn on and Rainbows end where on the hills people sitting at 90ks in the middle or fast lane force other people into undertaking, then traffic starts changing lanes to compensate, backing up etc.

In the UK they introduced the city-entry motorway 40mph laws purely to try to make people stay in one lane rather than cut back and forth - its this that creates ramdon jams and stop-start traffic. When lane discipline breaks down jams & traffic choas result.

[Ragingrob]

I'm pretty sure you are right in this, and if you are driving like a fule (too slow or not paying attention etc) or they want to have a look at you (suspect no warrant etc etc) they pull people over and ticket them for failure to keep left if that's all they can get them for - if they can be bothered.

Auckland central parts of SH1 & SH16 are hard for lane discipline because of the turn off where the right lane is an entry-exit lane, with a few weird ones like the end of SH16-SH1 intersection with miles of stopped middle-lane traffic and free flowing right & left lanes to the shore & city.

You can see authentic lane discipline problems really well of the SH1 between the Coromandel turn on and Rainbows end where on the hills people sitting at 90ks in the middle or fast lane force other people into undertaking, then traffic starts changing lanes to compensate, backing up etc.

In the UK they introduced the city-entry motorway 40mph laws purely to try to make people stay in one lane rather than cut back and forth - its this that creates ramdon jams and stop-start traffic. When lane discipline breaks down jams & traffic choas result.

Yep Auckland motorway is just asking for trouble in places. So pretty much we wanna say that if you are not gonna travel at 100 or more, then stay the hell outta the right lane in free-flowing traffic! At least on a bike it is MUCH easier to filter through the slower traffic but changing lanes easily and passing quickly, on the inside or the outside depending on the situation.

[Badjelly]

In the UK they introduced the city-entry motorway 40mph laws purely to try to make people stay in one lane rather than cut back and forth

And what are "the city-entry motorway 40mph laws"?

[ElCoyote]

Traffic chaos and stupidity is surely only going to ensue if people are driving in the right lane at slower than passing speeds? If the right hand lane is moving at 100-110kph then it wouldn't matter would it?

Although, if the traffic is free-flowing then what difference does it make if I'm in the right or the left lane? I'm not entirely sure what all this chaos it results in that everyone is talking about?
.

It matters at any speed. Even though you may be doing 110kph, there may be somebody behind you wanting to do 250kph. LET THEM. Whether in a cage or especially on a bike, having somebody tailgating you waiting for you to blink is never a good look. Move over. Move back if you wish, but not "JUST" to be in the right lane.

If the traffic is free flowing, probably no worries. but why be in the right lane anyway (unless genuinely passing) all exits are on the left.

[90s]

And what are "the city-entry motorway 40mph laws"?

Throughout the UK some of the big motorways that enter key cities have a blanket 40mph speed limit for the last 10 miles or so 'in'. Examples are the M4 & M11. Its been around a few years and is spreading.

The idea comes from traffic modelling, which sadly I was very very slightly involved with as a tester once. At an enforced 40mph heavy traffic is more likely to crawl along at a uniform speed and reduced lane-jumping to get ahead. Meant to speed up the peak-rush hour.

I remember in my '70s mini cooper in the early 1990s (semi-wreck) doing late night trips back from Bristol to London, doing 85mph before the speed cameras came in perfect empty-roaded safety.
Now doing the trip from Reading back into London at night last summer ... no busy traffic, 1 lane just for taxis & buses and a 40mph limit with GATSOs all OVER the place. Sit there at 40mph .... sit there ... sit there ...

A triumph of taking a hammer to smash an egg.

I have seen this idea discussed over here pretty seriously. Another part of the strategy was those lights on the motorway slip rds (although I have no problem with them ... )

[ElCoyote]

Hold on, I've never said I ride in the right lane anyway? I often am in the left unless someone's slower in front on me... So don't call me a fucktard. I'm just saying it's not an OFFENCE to ride in the right hand lane on the motorway. Which you agree to? But yeah, I haven't said that I cruise in the right lane 24/7 at all, you have assumed it.

I know this started out as "Lane splitting at 90kph" but I feel the discussion on monopolising the right hand lane is pertinent also. See previous shit fight.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=65833&page=4

[snuffles]

got to be careful what you say around here, some people dont like the truth:argue:

[Swoop]

It matters at any speed. Even though you may be doing 110kph, there may be somebody behind you wanting to do 250kph. LET THEM. Whether in a cage or especially on a bike, having somebody tailgating you waiting for you to blink is never a good look. Move over.
I think we should instigate a German Autobahn rule here. If you are following a car in the fast lane and you put your indicator on to overtake, the vehicle in front has to move out of the way.
I would also suggets a proviso on top of that... if they do not move out of the way, opening fire is permitted:ar15:

At an enforced 40mph heavy traffic is more likely to crawl along at a uniform speed and reduced lane-jumping to get ahead.
Similar to what happens on SH2 on the long weekends when areas of single lane road open out to a passing lane. The best thing is when the extra lane is blocked off (the orange cone monster comes out to play) which keeps the flow of traffic constant.
Much better. This keeps the cagers in line and we still get past them all on two wheels anyway.