New licence system

[firefighter]

Hello all, have been reading another thread to do about the new system of licencing - can drive at 100km on your learners/wait 12 months instead of 6 if your over 25 to get your full from restricted etc (which buggers me!) :shit:

Aaaaanyways was wondering when this actually comes into effect.....was said in the other thread that it has happened, and is now the new law, BUT on the LTSA website it doesn't say anything like that, just the same old system, and on the link it talks about 2010 for implementation, not now, can anyone verify this for me? (please someone who knows, not just people taking stabs in the dark....)

Would make my day if it is in 2010 so I can get my full in september! :Punk:

[Ixion]

You may just make it.

The 2010 is a complete red herring. The government have had for a number of years a long term plan called Road Safety Straegy 2010. This sets out a number of targets around the road toll which are required to be met by 2010.

The changes in driver licensing are part of the strategy to achieve that 2010 result.

But the changes themselves will be introduced well before 2010. Later this year, in fact.

How much later depends somewhat upon what sort of reception the new provisions attract. The planned changes (they are not yet law) will be released for public consultation in the next few months. If there is no argument or push back from the community (probably the case) the politicians will probably pass them before the election. Maybe August, September. If there is great dissension and howls of outrage, then there must be more talking, things will take longer, and the timetable will be swallowed up by the election. Implementation may be delayed until 2009.

[firefighter]

awesome response man thanks! (i bloody hope its after september!)

[Subike]

thanks for that info Ixion
was wondering the same point myself
+1

[Bert]

You may just make it.

The 2010 is a complete red herring. The government have had for a number of years a long term plan called Road Safety Straegy 2010. This sets out a number of targets around the road toll which are required to be met by 2010.

The changes in driver licensing are part of the strategy to achieve that 2010 result.

But the changes themselves will be introduced well before 2010. Later this year, in fact.

How much later depends somewhat upon what sort of reception the new provisions attract. The planned changes (they are not yet law) will be released for public consultation in the next few months. If there is no argument or push back from the community (probably the case) the politicians will probably pass them before the election. Maybe August, September. If there is great dissension and howls of outrage, then there must be more talking, things will take longer, and the timetable will be swallowed up by the election. Implementation may be delayed until 2009.

This is going to be interesting discussion over the next few months.
the key change to the law is that of power to weight 150Kw per Ton.

Looking at the numbers from small 250 / 2&4's nearly all fall outside this ratio
this includes:
CBR 250s
NSR 250
ZXR 250a & c
KR 250s
FZR 250
TZR & RZ 250s
RVG 250 etc

Maybe the motorcycle community needs to put forward some pressure otherwise these bikes will be no longer available to new or returning riders :(

my two cents
(or ten now i spose)
Bert

[oscarnz]

I worked for LTNZ driver licensing, and this is going to take a while to implement, nothing is going to happen over night.
It has lots of processes to go thru which will take time, including how it is going to be policed etc.
We have not even been officially informed about the changes hence it not happening soon.

There is no need to stress about it, personally I feel that they should be taking it to the public and listening to what we have to say.

[Gubb]

This is going to be interesting discussion over the next few months.
the key change to the law is that of power to weight 150Kw per Ton.

Looking at the numbers from small 250 / 2&4's nearly all fall outside this ratio
this includes:
CBR 250s
NSR 250
ZXR 250a & c
KR 250s
FZR 250
TZR & RZ 250s
RVG 250 etc
*sigh* Did you remember to add the 90Kg allowance for Rider and Fuel?

[dummer]

*sigh* Did you remember to add the 90Kg allowance for Rider and Fuel?

Still...all the 2stroke are ruled out:brick:

[scumdog]

Why do people stress out so much on the size of the bike they're allowed to ride when it's for such a short time?????:scratch::weird::spudwhat:

[firefighter]

Because i'm a big boy. Yes I could just go to the gym! But after having a test ride on my brothers yamaha R6 (gingerly of course!) I'm fairly confident that my little 250 is just too small for my big frame on top of it, I don't give two shits what ANYONE says on this it's a fact, it's too small under me ( i'm not that big either), and I like to ride a lot, after being on my bro's 600 I felt a lot safer and like I was on a good sized bike, so that's why I care about being a on a small bike, and yes iv'e tried other 250's too and ya same thing. Just too small, don't get me wrong the best thing to start on but i'm ready for something a bit more practical for me.........I'm sure i'm not the only one.......I would agree on the short period of time bit if I didn't ride as much as I do.

[NOMIS]

well im not big at all and id like to have a r-6 lol.
who woulnt. After going on mate bro inlaws R1 i feel that (besides the excessive power) I could handel its size no problems.

[fizbin]

*sigh* Did you remember to add the 90Kg allowance for Rider and Fuel?

:) some of us left testicals that are 90kg:shit:.... sadly not me sigh:lol:

[Ixion]

Because i'm a big boy. Yes I could just go to the gym! But after having a test ride on my brothers yamaha R6 (gingerly of course!) I'm fairly confident that my little 250 is just too small for my big frame on top of it, I don't give two shits what ANYONE says on this it's a fact, it's too small under me ( i'm not that big either), and I like to ride a lot, after being on my bro's 600 I felt a lot safer and like I was on a good sized bike, so that's why I care about being a on a small bike, and yes iv'e tried other 250's too and ya same thing. Just too small, don't get me wrong the best thing to start on but i'm ready for something a bit more practical for me.........I'm sure i'm not the only one.......I would agree on the short period of time bit if I didn't ride as much as I do.

Interesting how many "big people" find that extra 350cc seems somehow to spread out from the engine to the frame.

Some comparative specs :

<TABLE>

. Hyosung GT250 Yamaha R6

Length 2080 2039
Width 750 701
Height 1170 1099
Wheelbase 1455 1379
Weight 155 166
Seat height 795 850

</TABLE>

So, the R6 has a two inch higher seat than the 250, and weighs 10 kg more. All other dimensions, the 250 is *bigger* than the R6.

Guess that seat height must be the thing that matters.

So, it's all good, the new laws mean all the big folk will be able to ride bikes that really suit them Like the DR650

Length 2255
Width 865
Height 1195
Wheelbase 1490
Weight 147
Seat height 885

Now, that's a big bike, exactly what the big people want. Bit light of course, but a bit of lead can easily be added. Obviously a much better choice than an R6.

[Rosie]

Guess that seat height must be the thing that matters.

In that case, a DR250 would be even better than the 650, because the 250's seat is 25mm higher than the 650. :confused:

[Ixion]

Well, there we go!. All those big people won't even need 650s. There's already a 250 that is exactly what they say they want. A big bike for big people. (Does it come with a stepladder as standard ? )

[xwhatsit]

Now, that's a big bike, exactly what the big people want. Bit light of course, but a bit of lead can easily be added. Obviously a much better choice than an R6.

Bahahaha, you've said it much better than I ever could. That's all it is, really, just a big laugh trying to trick the authorities into letting them ride their dream wank-bike so they don't feel like a loser on a 250. Nothing to do with being tall or fat or whatever. Crock of shit.

Anyway, I'll go and do some work and in the meantime await the red rep.

[The Pastor]

Why do people stress out so much on the size of the bike they're allowed to ride when it's for such a short time?????:scratch::weird::spudwhat:
SOME PEOPLE KEEP THE 250'S A LONG TIME AFTER THEY GET THERE FULL

[Horse]

Wow - overly broad generalisations on KB. Who'da thunk it?

Now, I don't want to ride no fecking sprotbike. So I'm riding the biggest 250 cruiser available - the Hyosung GV250. It is a good size, but still a little on the small side for me, and I'm 5'11" and 105kg. I'd be much happier and comfortable on a slightly larger bike.

BTW, I agree with you on the Hyosung GT250, having seen one in the flesh - they're a good sized bike. But if you paid close attention here (ie on KB generally), you may have noticed that Hyosungs apparently aren't real motorbikes, and real motorcyclists wouldn't be caught dead on one.

[scumdog]

Wow - overly broad generalisations on KB. Who'da thunk it?

BTW, I agree with you on the Hyosung GT250, having seen one in the flesh - they're a good sized bike. But if you paid close attention here (ie on KB generally), you may have noticed that Hyosungs apparently aren't real motorbikes, and real motorcyclists wouldn't be caught dead on one.


THAT is on KB - in the real world it's a bit different, nobody cares what you ride (except monobrow slack jawed mouth-reathing drongos - some of them are on KB too)

[scumdog]

SOME PEOPLE KEEP THE 250'S A LONG TIME AFTER THEY GET THERE FULL

True - and then there are those who don't want to be on a 250 ever.:rolleyes:

[Ixion]

SOME PEOPLE KEEP THE 250'S A LONG TIME AFTER THEY GET THERE FULL

True. But for them, since it is volitional, they presumably are not stressed out about it. They ride a 250 because they *want* a 250 . After all, there were lots of 250s (and smaller) sold before the GDLS was invented.

[firefighter]

Interesting how many "big people" find that extra 350cc seems somehow to spread out from the engine to the frame.

Some comparative specs :

<TABLE>

. Hyosung GT250 Yamaha R6

Length 2080 2039
Width 750 701
Height 1170 1099
Wheelbase 1455 1379
Weight 155 166
Seat height 795 850

</TABLE>

So, the R6 has a two inch higher seat than the 250, and weighs 10 kg more. All other dimensions, the 250 is *bigger* than the R6.

Guess that seat height must be the thing that matters.

So, it's all good, the new laws mean all the big folk will be able to ride bikes that really suit them Like the DR650

Length 2255
Width 865
Height 1195
Wheelbase 1490
Weight 147
Seat height 885

Now, that's a big bike, exactly what the big people want. Bit light of course, but a bit of lead can easily be added. Obviously a much better choice than an R6.

Interesting figures, but what i'm meaning about too small (apart from it's physical size) is that it's like putting 5 big samoans into a nippy little european car- no longer will it zoom around or handle well, but it rides well with just one, well when I get on those little bikes It feels like just that (me being 5 big islanders! lol) although I will have to try out the hyosung! surprised at that..... and the DR650, i take it that it's the dirt bike looking thing......hmmmm doesn't really look like the kinda bike i'd like to cruise on around the north island through twisties etc! and as i'm not really into those bikes I wouldn't really enjoy it unless I was in the dirt...........

[Rogue]

Interesting figures, but what i'm meaning about too small (apart from it's physical size) is that it's like putting 5 big samoans into a nippy little european car- no longer will it zoom around or handle well, but it rides well with just one, well when I get on those little bikes It feels like just that (me being 5 big islanders! lol) although I will have to try out the hyosung! surprised at that..... and the DR650, i take it that it's the dirt bike looking thing......hmmmm doesn't really look like the kinda bike i'd like to cruise on around the north island through twisties etc! and as i'm not really into those bikes I wouldn't really enjoy it unless I was in the dirt...........

The DR650 would go all day at 120km 2 up:niceone: had a very good write up in the Kiwi Rider a while back
Bit heavy for the dirt, great on adventure rides :clap:
I thought they looked a bit old school, but there is a black one at Boyd Motorcyles in Hamilton that looks very smart
:beer:

[The Pastor]

True - and then there are those who don't want to be on a 250 ever.:rolleyes:


True. But for them, since it is volitional, they presumably are not stressed out about it. They ride a 250 because they *want* a 250 . After all, there were lots of 250s (and smaller) sold before the GDLS was invented.



you both forgot the poor people. some people want a new bike but can't afford it.

i sorta have a dilema, I don't need a faster bike (i keep up ok) I want one, but i know if i have one i'll be way to fast for the public roads. I keep telling myself, "slow down" when im not on the bike, but when i jump on all logic and reason goes out the window.

then again, i can't afford a new bike. and as long as i belive that my 250 will keep me happy for a long time yet. I will crack 100k's on it :D (100k's that ive done, the bike will have done 140 000 :D)

then again, i get the same fuel and tyre range of a modern 1000 (14-15km/l 5000km out of tyres).

im so confuesd.

btw if somone is in the same situation as me, gets the full but cant afford to upgrade DO NOT GO TEST RIDING NEW BIKES. They are far better than the POS you will be riding and when you jump back on it, you will not enjoy it and you will sign up for the loan. just don't do it man. When i did it I didnt ride my bike for 3 weeks!!!!

[Ixion]

.. and the DR650, i take it that it's the dirt bike looking thing......hmmmm doesn't really look like the kinda bike i'd like to cruise on around the north island through twisties etc! and as i'm not really into those bikes I wouldn't really enjoy it unless I was in the dirt...........

Oscar? Nordie? Merv? Motu? Should we tell him? Or keep our secret. We don;t want the masses finding out about it after all

[Ixion]

you both forgot the poor people. some people want a new bike but can't afford it.

i sorta have a dilema, I don't need a faster bike (i keep up ok) I want one, but i know if i have one i'll be way to fast for the public roads. I keep telling myself, "slow down" when im not on the bike, but when i jump on all logic and reason goes out the window.

then again, i can't afford a new bike. and as long as i belive that my 250 will keep me happy for a long time yet. I will crack 100k's on it :D (100k's that ive done, the bike will have done 140 000 :D)

then again, i get the same fuel and tyre range of a modern 1000 (14-15km/l 5000km out of tyres).

im so confuesd.

btw if somone is in the same situation as me, gets the full but cant afford to upgrade DO NOT GO TEST RIDING NEW BIKES. They are far better than the POS you will be riding and when you jump back on it, you will not enjoy it and you will sign up for the loan. just don't do it man. When i did it I didnt ride my bike for 3 weeks!!!!

This is very true. We must all (well, most of us) cut our coat according to our cloth.

And most of us when young rode bikes that we could afford, rather than those we really wanted.

I'm just a poor old man, I still ride what I can afford. Maybe the 'afford' is a bit more than you, but , like you , I look at new bikes and sigh. Mr Motu and I are the bottom feeders, we wait for the rich folk to throw away their nice bikes because the ash trays are full and take on their cast offs.

Not many people can afford to go out and buy whatever they want. (Shut up Mr Finn, you're already on the list for 'special treatment' come the revolution)

But I see your sensible resolve to live within the boundaries of what is practical as an excellent sign of maturity and adulthood, There are people out there who go through a whole lifetime of misery and stress and never learn that lesson. It's called growing up, and you've obviously made the grade.

It gets easier as you go on, whereas the alternative gets harder.

[Finn]

Not many people can afford to go out and buy whatever they want. (Shut up Mr Finn, you're already on the list for 'special treatment' come the revolution)

Revolution? In New Zealand? I don't think so. The sheep will always queue for the sharing*.

* purposely mis-spelt.

[Bikernereid]

As someone who will be getting a license when arriving in NZ I am more concerned about getting the wierd traffic light rules and making sure that I don't get wiped out than the 'size' of my bike.

I would rather spend a year on a restricted license and make sure I have plenty of experience and feel ready to move up to a bigger bike then rush and regret it. Maybe it is just my age and appreciation of my life that makes me more conservative in this respect.

[Ixion]

Eh? Weird traffic light rules? Go on green, stop on red, stop if you safely can on amber? What's so weird?

[quickbuck]

Eh? Weird traffic light rules? Go on green, stop on red, stop if you safely can on amber? What's so weird?
Yep, all normal for this part of the world...

The uncontrolled intersection, and the "Give Way to vehicles turning Right" (Yes at some traffic lights too, where arrows haven't been installed yet) may be what is being referred to...

[Bikernereid]

The turning priority rule.


Eh? Weird traffic light rules? Go on green, stop on red, stop if you safely can on amber? What's so weird?

[Ixion]

Doesn't apply at traffic lights. And when it does it's easy peasy

Turning left? Give way to anyone going straight
Give way to anyone turning right

Turning right? Give way to anyone going straight ahead or anyone you can see if you turn y' head right.


And always give way at give way signs stop signs or traffic lights.

Couldn't really be easier

[Bikernereid]

Insane my boy insane. why should the flow of traffic be hindered by those turning it is daft??!!

Filter systems were created so that those going straight ahead can do so and then those turning right or whatever have their turn. Saves hassle and makes sense!



Doesn't apply at traffic lights. And when it does it's easy peasy

Turning left? Give way to anyone going straight
Give way to anyone turning right

Turning right? Give way to anyone going straight ahead or anyone you can see if you turn y' head right.


And always give way at give way signs stop signs or traffic lights.

Couldn't really be easier

[Ixion]

Because a vehicle stuck out in the middle of the road waiting to try to turn right across the traffic stream is in far greater danger than one comfortably by the kerb , out of harm's way , waiting to turn left.


The idea is to minimise the time that the endangered vehicle must spend in a hazardous situation.

Safety is given a higher priority than hindering traffic flow. Personally., I don';t see that as a bad idea.

Try sitting on a bike in the middle of a busy road with cages and trucks blasting past on your left and right, and see if you disagree.

Filter systems are irrelevant since the rule does NOT apply at traffic lights.

[Bikernereid]

You see I don't get your system at all hence wanting to spend more time getting used to it rather than pondering it whilst in hospital!!

Still sounds a bit odd.


Because a vehicle stuck out in the middle of the road waiting to try to turn right across the traffic stream is in far greater danger than one comfortably by the kerb , out of harm's way , waiting to turn left.


The idea is to minimise the time that the endangered vehicle must spend in a hazardous situation.

Safety is given a higher priority than hindering traffic flow. Personally., I don';t see that as a bad idea.

Try sitting on a bike in the middle of a busy road with cages and trucks blasting past on your left and right, and see if you disagree.

Filter systems are irrelevant since the rule does NOT apply at traffic lights.

[kermit63]

It seems to be a rule that people like to abuse in New Zealand, so people don't indicate they are turning left so they don't have to give way to someone who is turning across their path even though the person turning right has the right of way.

It also inflicts a stiff penalty for people who:

forget to turn their left indicator off, when someone else is waiting to turn right
Indicate that they are turning left into a petrol station that is 50m past a corner that another driver is waiting to turn right into
Indicate left to move from the right hand lane to the left lane, when someone is again waiting to turn right

Turning across a line of traffic just because their is a small orange flashing light on the side of a vehicle goes against my survival instincts, so until I've made eye contact with the owner of said flashing light and ensured they are slowing down, I sit and wait just to be sure.

Given all the legislation that we seem to have to protect us from ourselves, I'm surprised the politicians haven't thought to meddle with this one.

[Bikernereid]

Oh dear God I am going to get penaltied left right and centre!!


It seems to be a rule that people like to abuse in New Zealand, so people don't indicate they are turning left so they don't have to give way to someone who is turning across their path even though the person turning right has the right of way.

It also inflicts a stiff penalty for people who:

forget to turn their left indicator off, when someone else is waiting to turn right
Indicate that they are turning left into a petrol station that is 50m past a corner that another driver is waiting to turn right into
Indicate left to move from the right hand lane to the left lane, when someone is again waiting to turn right

Turning across a line of traffic just because their is a small orange flashing light on the side of a vehicle goes against my survival instincts, so until I've made eye contact with the owner of said flashing light and ensured they are slowing down, I sit and wait just to be sure.

Given all the legislation that we seem to have to protect us from ourselves, I'm surprised the politicians haven't thought to meddle with this one.

[kermit63]

Oh dear God I am going to get penaltied left right and centre!!

Don't worry, the cops don't ping you for it - much easier just to park up a speed camera and listen to the till ring. "Speed Kills" is the big thing here, so you can expect to be stopped for doing 111ks on a straight road in the middle of a clear fine day.

There are periodic campaigns to ensure a "full and complete stop at stop signs". Given the number of stop signs there are, that can be an expensive rolling stop - $about 170 I think, but don't quote me.

Red lights seem to be getting targetted at the moment as well, but that is well over due.

Also they periodically ping motorbikes for parking on the footpath.

Other than that, if you stick to the rules or there abouts, you won't get too many hassles.

[Bikernereid]

Is there anything to don't do you for? Breathing perhaps.

I guess that the longer I am there the more I will get used to it and if the other half doesn't mind riding backwards for a while I am sure I can watch and learn.


Don't worry, the cops don't ping you for it - much easier just to park up a speed camera and listen to the till ring. "Speed Kills" is the big thing here, so you can expect to be stopped for doing 111ks on a straight road in the middle of a clear fine day.

There are periodic campaigns to ensure a "full and complete stop at stop signs". Given the number of stop signs there are, that can be an expensive rolling stop - $about 170 I think, but don't quote me.

Red lights seem to be getting targetted at the moment as well, but that is well over due.

Also they periodically ping motorbikes for parking on the footpath.

Other than that, if you stick to the rules or there abouts, you won't get too many hassles.

[kermit63]

don't sweat it. The things I've mentioned are just periodic campaigns, the same as they run anywhere in the world. Speeding is the constant one, but it's still possible to have fun without getting caught. Also, there are track days run pretty frequently.

[crazybigal]

mate you think an R6 has a big frame??? haha
you just like the power:devil2:


Because i'm a big boy. Yes I could just go to the gym! But after having a test ride on my brothers yamaha R6 (gingerly of course!) I'm fairly confident that my little 250 is just too small for my big frame on top of it, I don't give two shits what ANYONE says on this it's a fact, it's too small under me ( i'm not that big either), and I like to ride a lot, after being on my bro's 600 I felt a lot safer and like I was on a good sized bike, so that's why I care about being a on a small bike, and yes iv'e tried other 250's too and ya same thing. Just too small, don't get me wrong the best thing to start on but i'm ready for something a bit more practical for me.........I'm sure i'm not the only one.......I would agree on the short period of time bit if I didn't ride as much as I do.

[Bikernereid]

been to the a track day at Puke in Jan and was lucky enough to do a session on the back of my blokes Honda CBR600 RR. Was awesome but I will be waiting a considerable amount of time before I start racing round on a track day. Like myself in one piece!!


don't sweat it. The things I've mentioned are just periodic campaigns, the same as they run anywhere in the world. Speeding is the constant one, but it's still possible to have fun without getting caught. Also, there are track days run pretty frequently.

[YellowDog]

SOME PEOPLE KEEP THE 250'S A LONG TIME AFTER THEY GET THERE FULL
Exactly right. If you are not enjoying your 250, it's not the right 250 for you.

I do however find it strange that all these new regulations are being introduced to improve safety.

In general, it is not the riders who follow the old or new rules that will have the accidents. Surely introducing higher standards of training to pass the test would be a better way to improve safety and reduce accidents?

[firefighter]

mate you think an R6 has a big frame??? haha
you just like the power:devil2:

Yes! :drool: :headbang: well that and after riding the R6 my 91' ZZR felt like I was getting off a mustang and getting onto a Donkey!

[disenfranchised]

Looking at the numbers from small 250 / 2&4's nearly all fall outside this ratio
this includes:
CBR 250s
NSR 250
ZXR 250a & c
KR 250s
FZR 250
TZR & RZ 250s
RVG 250 etc


Weren't the rules set to allow
ALL bikes with 250cc or less, with the exception of 5 specifically named 2stroke models
Plus bikes with engines up to 650cc as long as the power/weight ratio was less than 150kw/ton...including the 90kg for rider + fuel

So you don't need to worry about the CBR, ZXR, FZR etc

[The Pastor]

Exactly right. If you are not enjoying your 250, it's not the right 250 for you.

I do however find it strange that all these new regulations are being introduced to improve safety.

In general, it is not the riders who follow the old or new rules that will have the accidents. Surely introducing higher standards of training to pass the test would be a better way to improve safety and reduce accidents?

This point was rasied at a road safty meeting i attended a 1 or 2 years ago.

The cop at my table said this "if you train people to drive they will drive faster and have more accidents"

Its a load of ball sucking dick shit.

Why do Pilots, taxi drivers, buss drivers, train drivers, skippers, etc, have extensive training? Because driving is a technical matter, it is not easy or safely learned by experiance AND IT PUTS PUBLIC SAFTEY AT RISK.

yet car/bike divers/riders make up the majority of road users, the literlary come in contract with 1000's of other motorists every single day. Yet they have NO technical training on how to operate the vehical at which they drive.

Now apparently the new optional defensive driving cource has a practical component to it.

I can't speak from experiance but I'd bet that it only focus on how to look for problems. Not how to drive/operate a motorvechical.

the Basic handling tests for bike riders isnt very good, but its a start on what should be done for all motorists.

It wont be done, because its expensive.

[clint640]

Oscar? Nordie? Merv? Motu? Should we tell him? Or keep our secret. We don;t want the masses finding out about it after all

Shhh... Repeat after me: Dirt bikes are shit on the road.

That time I saw a bloke on a DR650 pass about 20 sprotbikes in 10km of twisty road was a total halucination :D

Clint