Pain clinic & killing nerves ...

[chanceyy]

Hi guys

this is a query to anyone who has attended a pain clinic & has had nerves killed


one of our kbers had an accident in sept 2005, shoulder was pretty much shattered after a bike accident, the shoulder was plated to assist the healing & later this plate was removed.

since then pain is a daily constant grind, Pain relief does not do much to ease the situation & leaves this person feeling groggy & wiped out. Tramol is the pain relief

they have attended a pain clinic today & been offered to kill a nerve in neck. It seems c6 cartilage is slightly damaged and knocking out the nerve will kill the pain but will need to redo it again in 2 yrs when nerve grows back

it seems the damaged arm is stronger than other one but there is no sensation

so what they are planning is to inject dye to see nerves damaged then inject something else to kill it

has anyone else had this kind of stuff done .. & can you please advise if killing the nerve will stop the pain or not. Worth getting it done etc ??

any other info will be most helpful the person this affects will be reading the posts

would appreciate it if you can offer constructive advice & not take off topic

cheers

[SixPackBack]

Hi guys

this is a query to anyone who has attended a pain clinic & has had nerves killed


one of our kbers had an accident in sept 2005, shoulder was pretty much shattered after a bike accident, the shoulder was plated to assist the healing & later this plate was removed.

since then pain is a daily constant grind, Pain relief does not do much to ease the situation & leaves this person feeling groggy & wiped out. Tramol is the pain relief

they have attended a pain clinic today & been offered to kill a nerve in neck. It seems c6 cartilage is slightly damaged and knocking out the nerve will kill the pain but will need to redo it again in 2 yrs when nerve grows back

it seems the damaged arm is stronger than other one but there is no sensation

so what they are planning is to inject dye to see nerves damaged then inject something else to kill it

has anyone else had this kind of stuff done .. & can you please advise if killing the nerve will stop the pain or not. Worth getting it done etc ??

any other info will be most helpful the person this affects will be reading the posts

would appreciate it if you can offer constructive advice & not take off topic

cheers

I have had two vertebrae in my neck fused together using a PEEK cage, at some stage another two vertebrae closer to my skull will need the same treatment.
Pain pre-op was hard to describe. Tramol,Paradex,Paratriptelene,Morphin all usually washed down with red wine was a daily cocktail, and for many months this hardly took the edge off the pain. Post-op the effect was immediate, pain is now manageable [still bad at times!], but I now have a life.
I spent a lot of time when off work investigating pain management, nerve damage and the various solutions to my serious pain issues, and to be honest chanceyy I have never heard of the procedure your freind may undergo? Usually what you describe is managed by either fusion or cutting away some of the bone/cartilage to allow the nerve some room to move.
'Killing' a nerve sounds wrong!.....nerves are essential. Can you provide more detailed info?

[chanceyy]

I have had two vertebrae in my neck fused together using a PEEK cage, at some stage another two vertebrae closer to my skull will need the same treatment.
Pain pre-op was hard to describe. Tramol,Paradex,Paratriptelene,Morphin all usually washed down with red wine was a daily cocktail, and for many months this hardly took the edge off the pain. Post-op the effect was immediate, pain is now manageable [still bad at times!], but I now have a life.
I spent a lot of time when off work investigating pain management, nerve damage and the various solutions to my serious pain issues, and to be honest chanceyy I have never heard of the procedure your freind may undergo? Usually what you describe is managed by either fusion or cutting away some of the bone/cartilage to allow the nerve some room to move.
'Killing' a nerve sounds wrong!.....nerves are essential. Can you provide more detailed info?

Hi ya SPB
the person this affects only found out this info today & is still trying to come to terms with the info they have been given (& obviously a bit nervous of the ramifications)

if you post your questions they will let me know the answers to post

essentially from my limited understanding this nerve is runs from the neck down through the shoulder blade, they have limited mobility in turning their head one way, they are still mobile but living with the pain is wearing them down

[SixPackBack]

Hi ya SPB
the person this affects only found out this info today & is still trying to come to terms with the info they have been given (& obviously a bit nervous of the ramifications)

if you post your questions they will let me know the answers to post

essentially from my limited understanding this nerve is runs from the neck down through the shoulder blade, they have limited mobility in turning their head one way, they are still mobile but living with the pain is wearing them down

As suspected this is the same issue I had. They will also have pain in the shoulder blade extending to the outside/top of their arm, pins and needles extending from the outside of their hand. In time they may suffer spatial displacement between both arms [this sounds kinda strange!], basically while still fully functional both arms 'feel' like they are in a different position to each other.

The two only two options I am aware of [and were presented to me] was anterior cervical discectomy (http://www.spine-health.com/Conditions/Herniated-Disc/Cervical-Herniated-Disc-Treatments-Doctor-Answers-Patient-Questions.html) [the operation performed on me]. The other operation as previously described 'trims' away excess bone/cartilage to allow the nerve to move. I believe your freind is being offered the second option.

A cervical discetomy is by far the best option, in and out of the hospital in two days and fully functional within 6 weeks-pain reduction is immediate.

As for 'killing' the nerve...never heard of it. Doctor's do everything they can to preserve nerves, and killing the nerve they are talking about would leave the arm hanging useless, no strength in the shoulder blade. I think there may have been a miscommunication/misunderstanding.

[Macstar]

I'm sure there'd be other internet forums (health based) that could turn up some good results for your mate. For the record, I attended the Pain Clinic in Greenlane some 10 years ago. Western medicine & NZ Health system at the time would rather pay for me to take antidepressants (to retard the nerve sensories) and pain killers for the rest of my life, than fund massages, physio etc.

[chanceyy]

As suspected this is the same issue I had. They will also have pain in the shoulder blade extending to the outside/top of their arm, pins and needles extending from the outside of their hand. In time they may suffer spatial displacement between both arms [this sounds kinda strange!], basically while still fully functional both arms 'feel' like they are in a different position to each other.

yes the pins & needles has been mentioned ..

The two only two options I am aware of [and were presented to me] was anterior cervical discectomy (http://www.spine-health.com/Conditions/Herniated-Disc/Cervical-Herniated-Disc-Treatments-Doctor-Answers-Patient-Questions.html) [the operation performed on me]. The other operation as previously described 'trims' away excess bone/cartilage to allow the nerve to move. I believe your freind is being offered the second option.

A cervical discetomy is by far the best option, in and out of the hospital in two days and fully functional within 6 weeks-pain reduction is immediate.

As for 'killing' the nerve...never heard of it. Doctor's do everything they can to preserve nerves, and killing the nerve they are talking about would leave the arm hanging useless, no strength in the shoulder blade. I think there may have been a miscommunication/misunderstanding.


k thanks for the link will check it out .. as far as I am aware wot they are suggesting is under xray to run a dye through to pin point the nerve & then inject something into it .. no op has been mentioned as such but they may correct me on this post yet

[chanceyy]

I'm sure there'd be other internet forums (health based) that could turn up some good results for your mate. For the record, I attended the Pain Clinic in Greenlane some 10 years ago. Western medicine & NZ Health system at the time would rather pay for me to take antidepressants (to retard the nerve sensories) and pain killers for the rest of my life, than fund massages, physio etc.

yes Physio was mentioned to improve posture as well

[T.W.R]

One of our very regular customers at work has had this exact operation done very recently.
He was involved in a pretty serious off-road accident and was temporarily paralysed from the neck down and air lifted to hospital, after 2-3days regained feeling & movement (farking lucky for him) but was left with nerve damage and severe pain. After a short period of time was advised of this operation to relieve the pain and regain lost movement in his neck, shoulders, & arm.

The operation involved going in through his throat ( so now has a healthly looking scar just to the right of his Adam's apple. He says that the pain has diminished but hasn't gone completely, his overall movement in those areas has increased but definitely not back to 100%. Prior to the operation he was informed that it is a very risky operation and the percentages of success aren't high.
His specialist has told him that his rate of recovery is well above normal but he still isn't allowed to approach returning to work for quite a few months , apparently the usual is somewhere near 18mths (that's according to what his specialist told him).

Personal experience of dead/killed nerves; one lot in my right knee from a very old MX accident and the second lot in my left elbow from when it was completely destroyed (had radial nerve palsy which last for weeks with zero movement from the elbow down), I can say the right knee is just dull with no other effects and the left elbow & forearm are disgusting (being blunt) the skin feels foreign, the elbow itself is a constant pain, the forearm feels like the surface of a cauliflower and could be used as a pin cushion.

[SixPackBack]

k thanks for the link will check it out .. as far as I am aware wot they are suggesting is under xray to run a dye through to pin point the nerve & then inject something into it .. no op has been mentioned as such but they may correct me on this post yet

Received the same procedure. In my case this was used [with a magnetic resonance imaging machine] to ascertain the amount the nerve had been compromised. The result will be checked by a specialist and used to develop a plan of action.
The machine is a little claustrophobic and makes loud clicking noises, but the procedure is not that painful.

[Edbear]

... It seems c6 cartilage is slightly damaged and knocking out the nerve will kill the pain but will need to redo it again in 2 yrs when nerve grows back..

Yeah, as SPB says, I think this needs a bit more clarification.


As suspected ...(snip)...I think there may have been a miscommunication/misunderstanding.

Appreciate the posts, SPB, being further to the other thread where you explained your injury.

I too, suffered extreme pain for years, addicted to DHC - taking the max dose and supplementing that with a host of other painkillers. Totalled 16 pills a day plus injecting myself in the leg with Imigran every few days for blinding, (literally), migraines.

It does wear you down, especially as in my case where test after test for four years failed to find a cause.

I am grateful that I do not have a permanent serious injury as you and chancyy's friend have, and am now pain-free, (and drug free! apart from current medication to treat my Cushing's Syndrome) and look forward to a near full recovery.

While I've learned a lot about the nervous system as no doubt you have, the biggest thing I've learned is how complex and difficult to diagnose it is, yet how simple it can be at times to effect pain-relief.

I empathise with anyone suffering long-term severe pain!

[SixPackBack]

One of our very regular customers at work has had this exact operation done very recently.
He was involved in a pretty serious off-road accident and was temporarily paralysed from the neck down and air lifted to hospital, after 2-3days regained feeling & movement (farking lucky for him) but was left with nerve damage and severe pain. After a short period of time was advised of this operation to relieve the pain and regain lost movement in his neck, shoulders, & arm.

The operation involved going in through his throat ( so now has a healthly looking scar just to the right of his Adam's apple. He says that the pain has diminished but hasn't gone completely, his overall movement in those areas has increased but definitely not back to 100%. Prior to the operation he was informed that it is a very risky operation and the percentages of success aren't high.

I also have this scar. My experience was a reduction in pain by at least 90%, out of the hospital in two days and walked over 6km a week later [was a bit buggered after], back to work in 4 weeks. The Surgeon informed me the success rate was high, but I had to work on staying pain free, for me staying fit reduces the pain to almost nothing.

His specialist has told him that his rate of recovery is well above normal but he still isn't allowed to approach returning to work for quite a few months , apparently the usual is somewhere near 18mths (that's according to what his specialist told him).

He must be severely affected, this is an unusually long time.

Personal experience of dead/killed nerves; one lot in my right knee from a very old MX accident and the second lot in my left elbow from when it was completely destroyed (had radial nerve palsy which last for weeks with zero movement from the elbow down), I can say the right knee is just dull with no other effects and the left elbow & forearm are disgusting (being blunt) the skin feels foreign, the elbow itself is a constant pain, the forearm feels like the surface of a cauliflower and could be used as a pin cushion.


The surgery is a breeze, my only comment was I should have had it done much sooner.

[rachprice]

Hey ya they definitely do kill nerves it is called neurolysis, by the sounds of it it is chemical neurolysis. It is usually a last resort type thing. I don't know much about it but it appears to not be permanent but can have serious complications. Here is a couple of websites though I wouldn't just rely on these
http://www.dcmsonline.org/jax-medicine/1998journals/october98/neurolytic.htm
http://www.painclinic.org/treatment-peripheralnerveblocks.htm
Try and get an appointment with the doc soley to discuss this course of action, ask for information from them. It can all be a bit daunting at first because you cant take everything in and usually they are on a time schedule!!
Hope your friend can come to a good decision!

[chanceyy]

Received the same procedure. In my case this was used [with a magnetic resonance imaging machine] to ascertain the amount the nerve had been compromised. The result will be checked by a specialist and used to develop a plan of action.
The machine is a little claustrophobic and makes loud clicking noises, but the procedure is not that painful.

cheers Six


One of our very regular customers at work has had this exact operation done very recently.
He was involved in a pretty serious off-road accident and was temporarily paralysed from the neck down and air lifted to hospital, after 2-3days regained feeling & movement (farking lucky for him) but was left with nerve damage and severe pain. After a short period of time was advised of this operation to relieve the pain and regain lost movement in his neck, shoulders, & arm.

so for someone who has been injured for nearly 3 yrs wonder if it would be successful? be a question to ask the doc, in terms of percentages's I guess .. be a question to ponder for sure, however if the pain is more manageable or even gone but to offset that would you lose more use of the arm ?

The operation involved going in through his throat ( so now has a healthly looking scar just to the right of his Adam's apple. He says that the pain has diminished but hasn't gone completely, his overall movement in those areas has increased but definitely not back to 100%. Prior to the operation he was informed that it is a very risky operation and the percentages of success aren't high.

How many yrs ago are we talking now since he has had it done ?

His specialist has told him that his rate of recovery is well above normal but he still isn't allowed to approach returning to work for quite a few months , apparently the usual is somewhere near 18mths (that's according to what his specialist told him).

Personal experience of dead/killed nerves; one lot in my right knee from a very old MX accident and the second lot in my left elbow from when it was completely destroyed (had radial nerve palsy which last for weeks with zero movement from the elbow down), I can say the right knee is just dull with no other effects and the left elbow & forearm are disgusting (being blunt) the skin feels foreign, the elbow itself is a constant pain, the forearm feels like the surface of a cauliflower and could be used as a pin cushion.

yes hon well your arm sure took a hell of a beating, so not suprising its in constant pain.


Yeah, as SPB says, I think this needs a bit more clarification.

Once this person has read the posts (still stunned with the info overload today) they may be able to clarify any specific questions & if they want to reveal who they are that is their choice

Appreciate the posts, SPB, being further to the other thread where you explained your injury.

I too, suffered extreme pain for years, addicted to DHC - taking the max dose and supplementing that with a host of other painkillers. Totalled 16 pills a day plus injecting myself in the leg with Imigran every few days for blinding, (literally), migraines.

It does wear you down, especially as in my case where test after test for four years failed to find a cause.

I am grateful that I do not have a permanent serious injury as you and chancyy's friend have, and am now pain-free, (and drug free! apart from current medication to treat my Cushing's Syndrome) and look forward to a near full recovery.

While I've learned a lot about the nervous system as no doubt you have, the biggest thing I've learned is how complex and difficult to diagnose it is, yet how simple it can be at times to effect pain-relief.

I empathise with anyone suffering long-term severe pain!

I appreciate you guys sharing your stories, its only ppl who have been or suffered through the constant pain who can relate to this situation

thank you :D

[chanceyy]

The surgery is a breeze, my only comment was I should have had it done much sooner.

that is helpful to know Six & with info from this thread hopefully it will give them more info to clarify what it is exactly that will be done .. but knowing others have gone through it & for them its been sucessful also helps


Hey ya they definitely do kill nerves it is called neurolysis, by the sounds of it it is chemical neurolysis. It is usually a last resort type thing. I don't know much about it but it appears to not be permanent but can have serious complications. Here is a couple of websites though I wouldn't just rely on these
http://www.dcmsonline.org/jax-medicine/1998journals/october98/neurolytic.htm
http://www.painclinic.org/treatment-peripheralnerveblocks.htm
Try and get an appointment with the doc soley to discuss this course of action, ask for information from them. It can all be a bit daunting at first because you cant take everything in and usually they are on a time schedule!!
Hope your friend can come to a good decision!


thanks rach, will check out the links as well much appreciated :D

[T.W.R]

yes hon well your arm sure took a hell of a beating, so not suprising its in constant pain.



I appreciate you guys sharing your stories, its only ppl who have been or suffered through the constant pain who can relate to this situation

thank you :D

Dean had his accident in late November last year, had to wait till mid January before he was able to receive the operation & as SPB said the op itself is straight forward; Dean was only in Hospital for a day (only kept in overnight for observation etc) but had to wear a neck brace for quite a few days afterwards.

:lol: My elbow is in a league of it's own, even a group of 12 surgeons admitted that prior to my last operation :cool:
Not looking forward to the next time it decides to shit itself though :crybaby:
Found all my metalware the other day too, thought I'd lost it :pinch:
Anyone interested in 21 pieces of surgical steel only used once & well looked after :lol:

[helenoftroy]

Anyone interested in 21 pieces of surgical steel only used once & well looked after :lol:

I'll just pop down to the Surgical orthodaedic unit and ask if anyones interested.....:doctor:

Chronic pain is very difficult to aleviate completely

Often its about making choices regarding treatment that improve quality of life...

Pain Managment Clinic at my Hospital uses Botox under MRI immaging.I wonder if this is what is being offered here?

[onearmedbandit]

Off topic slightly but I had the option of an operation to kill the raw nerve bases on my spine (c4, c5, c6, c7 and t1) some years back. Involved using a lazer to burn the areas of my spinal cord that were affected, I was told the operation would last up to 12hrs, that my neck would take up to 3 mths to come right again, and that there was a 30% chance it wouldn't work and a 25% that I would lose the use of my left leg. I'm sitting here in excruciating pain right now but at least I'm not in a wheelchair (wouldn't be able to use crutches if I lost the use of my leg).