Wgtn bucket racers that use Avgas

[Str8 Jacket]

Is there anyone who could help me out with either getting some or is there anyone who would be able to spare me some at the next round. I shall pay for whatever I use....
I will get myself sorted out for the next round but im too busy with work and painting my bucket at the moment.

[Gubb]

I have a few contacts in Wellington, but you need to buy it in 200L drums.....

[Deano]

Why bother ? Just use 98 octane - bugger all difference as far as I can tell, unles you're on a highly tuned fire breathing monster that NEEDS avgas.

[Number One]

bwahahahaaaaa


oh Hels it'll take more than Avgas to go round me :shutup:



Still :love: ya though

[koba]

Why bother ? Just use 98 octane - bugger all difference as far as I can tell, unles you're on a highly tuned fire breathing monster that NEEDS avgas.

I think it needs a blend at least... Pretty high compression on this wee beast.


I Can probably sort somthing...

[Freakshow]

There is a pump near manfield but not sure it will be worth the drive!!

[koba]

Can get it from the airport or can get high octane race gas from speedshops, some ask for a race licence which aint a prob..

[bungbung]

Wellington Aero Club, Sat morning is a good time. No asking for race licence either.

[Str8 Jacket]

Why bother ? Just use 98 octane - bugger all difference as far as I can tell, unles you're on a highly tuned fire breathing monster that NEEDS avgas.

Yeah, it has pretty high compression, that and its always been run on half 98 half octane so I would rather run it exactly how it has been. Being a temperamental 2 smoker I really dont wanna change too much and give it a reason to have a hissy fit. We all know my history with bikes, especially 2 smokers!


I think it needs a blend at least... Pretty high compression on this wee beast.

I Can probably sort somthing...

I know you could but you dont have the time or the transport. Still luffs ya anyway though ;)


Wellington Aero Club, Sat morning is a good time. No asking for race licence either.

Cheers, plan on sorting that for the next round. I dont even have a container for it yet! :slap:

Oh yeah, ive just finished sanding and giving him a wee clean up. This bloody stupid door to door salesman came to try and sign me up to something while I was doing it, he told me that my bike was "strange" looking. I told him to get fucked and that I was busy so go away, he almost fainted. Poor old guy! :devil2:

[Number One]

HA! Serves him right! Bloody deserved it - next time I want to hear about you making mormons or JWs faint when they come to visit ya :shutup:

:sunny:

Looking forward to next weekend....when do we get a piccie? You gonna do before and after? Are colour co-ordinating your race attire?! :sunny:

[Str8 Jacket]

Looking forward to next weekend....when do we get a piccie? You gonna do before and after? Are colour co-ordinating your race attire?! :sunny:

hmm, next weekend?!!!!....
So many questions! :thud:

I might do before and after, except now its already sanded down..... Ah well you shall see it soo enough. As for the race attire it will be very second hand. Like my bike, except the bike is going to look much better. I hope!!

[Skunk]

I get mine at the Wgtn Aero Club as Bungbung said. Mine has to run Avgas. I'm getting some on Saturday next (I hope).

[speedpro]

the mobil on petone esplanade had some last year, shell brand for some reason and in 20L tins

[pete376403]

I think it needs a blend at least... Pretty high compression on this wee beast..

What is the actual C/R? does it really need 100 octane?
(calculating static CR = swept volume (ie volume of the cylinder) plus combustion chamber volume divided by combustion chamber volume) Dont forget with a two stroke effective compression only starts after all the ports are covered by the piston so it will be a lot less than the calculated static CR

[quallman1234]

Neveramind.

[koba]

What is the actual C/R? does it really need 100 octane?
(calculating static CR = swept volume (ie volume of the cylinder) plus combustion chamber volume divided by combustion chamber volume) Dont forget with a two stroke effective compression only starts after all the ports are covered by the piston so it will be a lot less than the calculated static CR

Not sure, but F5 dave built it and will probably know.
Probably around (maybe not quite) 15 to one.


Come to the buckets and have a looksie if ya wan't it is a great day out and full of innovation and homebuilt stuff, sounds like you might like it.

It aint a normal H100, It lifts the front in the first two gears even leaning foward a bit...

[Str8 Jacket]

It aint a normal H100, It lifts the front in the first two gears even leaning foward a bit...

Uh huh, and you know this *how*?! :bleh:

[Number One]

Uh huh, and you know this *how*?! :bleh:

Cos he was watching *you* cane it chick :clap:

[Str8 Jacket]

Cos he was watching *you* cane it chick :clap:

lol, nah, the only time he saw me on the track was when I was passing him after he'd crashed! Though I think I better start hiding the key to the shed! Mwahahahahaha!

[Number One]

Probably advisable :clap:

[CookMySock]

I got a stock-car racer mate down the road, and he is adamant NOT to use avgas. "Get some proper race fuel", he says. "Avgas is really really hard on engines."

DB

[Str8 Jacket]

I got a stock-car racer mate down the road, and he is adamant NOT to use avgas. "Get some proper race fuel", he says. "Avgas is really really hard on engines."

DB

aha. My bucket has always been run on avgas since it was built so I shall continue to run it on avgas..... As I have said earlier, I have had some bad luck with bikes and this one is running sweet so I dont wanna change anything or fuck with anything.

[Buddha#81]

I got a stock-car racer mate down the road, and he is adamant NOT to use avgas. "Get some proper race fuel", he says. "Avgas is really really hard on engines."

DB

WTF.......and ask him what "proper" race gas is? If its so hard on engines I'm not gunna fly on wee planes again because they must be due to start dropping out of the sky soon.

"race gas" is often expired aviation fuel. For that reason I always buy my gas from Garden city Helicopters. If its good enough for a wee chopper its good enuff for a FXR.

[koba]

naa, you can get propper branded stuff like c16, not the kinda shit that they may sell out of a dodgy old dirtbike shop (that would be expired avgas!) but it comes in 20ish liter tins and different octane ratings from 100 (I think) up to at least 116. I think it is lead free too but its fairly expensive. Hardout rally cars use it. "Elf" may be one of the brands? Im not sure tho..

As with the avgas in stock car thing I think they have to run either straight avgas or straigh pump petrol by their rules, not a blend of both as is common practice with buckets.

[koba]

http://www.vpracingfuels.com/vp_01_fuels.html

There we go, just an example.

[CookMySock]

WTF.......and ask him what "proper" race gas is? If its so hard on engines I'm not gunna fly on wee planes again because they must be due to start dropping out of the sky soon.

"race gas" is often expired aviation fuel. For that reason I always buy my gas from Garden city Helicopters. If its good enough for a wee chopper its good enuff for a FXR.He had a 200L drum of it in the corner - completely different shit to avgas he sez, and he will know.

Wee planes and helicopters DO drop out of the sky all the time. Dropped cylinders and valves mainly. Their engines are flamin huge - 150hp Cessna engine is 5 litres !! and they rotate at 2700rpm max, so it's not like they are heavily stressed. They run them rich as fuck also - 75% power on a 150HP engine is approx 30 litres / hour fuel flow. If they don't drop outa the sky, they write-off majorly mega-expensive parts left-right-and-center. Aviation fuel is shit - trust me.

If I was racing a two stroke, I'd use the highest octane pump gas, or FRESH race fuel, and Amsoil 100:1 two stroke oil, but I ain't, and I haven't, so YMMV. Celebrate that you can choose!

DB

[F5 Dave]

Aviation fuel is shit - trust me.

If I was racing a two stroke, I'd use the highest octane pump gas, or FRESH race fuel, and Amsoil 100:1 two stroke oil, but I ain't, and I haven't, so YMMV. Celebrate that you can choose!
DB

I wouldn't trust anyone who says run it on 100:1 as far as I could spit them. Sorry if that comes across rude but that is foul advice.

Here's the skinny: Av Gas is not the best fuel to run in a race tuned 2 stroke. A proper blended race gas like VP is the best, but there are various types to suit applications.

lets knock this route on the head. Not legal for buckets. (& expensive).

So the choices are pump gas or Av. Our pump gas is pretty average. The old Leaded pumpgas was pretty good, better than Av. Octane isn't the only measure of performance, people struggle with that concept.

When we first went to unleaded many years ago it was dangerous in highly tuned bikes & it varied, meaning if you tuned it to the limit then the next batch was a liability. So we went to Av, whilst not perfect was a damn sight better than the options. 98 has probably got a lot better than used to be but haven't bothered comparing it too closely. Av is safe & certainly isn't 'hard on engines'.

I think I had the H at ~ 14 or 15:1 (full stroke, I don't buy the ports argument as the pipe effectively supercharges the cylinder)
For the slipway with short straights 98 will be just fine. For longer tracks I'd run av as that is what the timing is set up for.

Run 40:1 with a decent oil. Spectro Gold is what it used to run with very low wear rates.

[cue the people who think I don't know what I'm talking about having their rant]. . . now.:whocares:

[Buddha#81]

I wouldn't trust anyone who says run it on 100:1 as far as I could spit them. Sorry if that comes across rude but that is foul advice.

Here's the skinny: Av Gas is not the best fuel to run in a race tuned 2 stroke. A proper blended race gas like VP is the best, but there are various types to suit applications.

lets knock this route on the head. Not legal for buckets. (& expensive).

So the choices are pump gas or Av. Our pump gas is pretty average. The old Leaded pumpgas was pretty good, better than Av. Octane isn't the only measure of performance, people struggle with that concept.

When we first went to unleaded many years ago it was dangerous in highly tuned bikes & it varied, meaning if you tuned it to the limit then the next batch was a liability. So we went to Av, whilst not perfect was a damn sight better than the options. 98 has probably got a lot better than used to be but haven't bothered comparing it too closely. Av is safe & certainly isn't 'hard on engines'.

I think I had the H at ~ 14 or 15:1 (full stroke, I don't buy the ports argument as the pipe effectively supercharges the cylinder)
For the slipway with short straights 98 will be just fine. For longer tracks I'd run av as that is what the timing is set up for.

Run 40:1 with a decent oil. Spectro Gold is what it used to run with very low wear rates.

[cue the people who think I don't know what I'm talking about having their rant]. . . now.:whocares:


I fully agree, the only thing I'd run at 100:1 is my yamaha 8hp outboard trolling, but on a dingy at full noise entertaining the kids it always gets a slightly higher mix. For $2 a litre for Av gas is the best value for money I've found and as Dave said at least its fresh and the octane is constant.

[Str8 Jacket]

[cue the people who think I don't know what I'm talking about having their rant]. . . now.:whocares:

Seeing as you built the bike I believe you know what you're talking about!! :yes:

[koba]

It is interesting to see the wide variety of opinions on the subject of race fuels and avgas... fascinating subject :)

[CookMySock]

The Amsoil 100:1 doesn't burn, so it accumulates in the engine. It is now basically mandatory for the two-stroke microlight boys - or die! Every other oil will kill a two-stroke microlight engine.

It's a pity those who are so unable to believe anything different to what they already believe, are so ready to bash the messenger. Perhaps you think I sell the shit or something ?

Rude.

DB

[F5 Dave]

At top level racing, GP MX or whatever you will find the teams using the best oil they can & at large ratios. The harder the engine revs the more oil. There is so much evidence from engine manufacturers & oil manufacturers that wear rates increase exponentially the less oil you run (from about 40:1 depending on application) that is not folklore "our oil is magic" BS. I hear Amsoil is a good oil, but at top level the GP teams used to (in the 90s at least) largely use Castrol A747 (no matter what stickers they ran on the fairings & paid for by team budgets).

On top of that, the dyno tests (again by the players above) have proved that more oil = more power. Seals the rings better.

Believe what you want but a little research will have you clinging hard to believe 100:1 is a good thing for a racing engine.

[bungbung]

Perhaps you think I sell the shit or something ?

Funnily enough, some of the pro Amsoil campaigners can sound a bit like Amway.
Want to be a dealer? you too can make unimagineable riches...

[speedpro]

What F5 says.

I've pretty well always used Avgas or 100 octane racing fuel from Mobil or Shell. It's always the same no matter when or where you buy it. My engine is currently running a measured 15.2:1 compression ratio. It's been good for lots of years, still got the original ring in it and possibly the same plug. I only run Motul 800 at 40:1 and the few times I have had a quick look inside it's been oily and clean.

Bob Haldane did testing years ago with a TZ 250 I think, on the dyno. The more oil they mixed in the more power it made till it got to the point where it just loaded plugs. I think they got down to 16 or 18:1. Jim Steadman runs his bucket on A747 at 18:1 and he's won more GPs than everyone else put together. That is castor based though so you do run it at lower ratios.

[Buddha#81]

Put me right if I'm wrong, but I've heard that if you go too high with the oil ratio the bike can run lean due to the oil thickening the fuel and allowing less flow through the jets? I think that that would have to be at the extream end of the range.

[F5 Dave]

That is right but for slightly wrong reason. The engine will suck a certain amount of fluid through the particular jet size. If you want more then you change the jet.

More oil you add the less petrol is contained within that amount of fluid hence if you increase the amount of oil radically then you are leaning off the jetting. A lot of these tests on dynos people mention checking the jetting through the tests.

The higher viscosity of the oil compared to the petrol probably affects flow, but bugger all & you can just alter the jets size. It is always possible to make the mixture too rich so any argument about less petrol is pretty weak.

[Buddha#81]

That is right but for slightly wrong reason. The engine will suck a certain amount of fluid through the particular jet size. If you want more then you change the jet.

More oil you add the less petrol is contained within that amount of fluid hence if you increase the amount of oil radically then you are leaning off the jetting. A lot of these tests on dynos people mention checking the jetting through the tests.

The higher viscosity of the oil compared to the petrol probably affects flow, but bugger all & you can just alter the jets size. It is always possible to make the mixture too rich so any argument about less petrol is pretty weak.


Ducks sake now my head hurts!

[pete376403]

[QUOTE=koba;1513840]Not sure, but F5 dave built it and will probably know.
Probably around (maybe not quite) 15 to one.
Come to the buckets and have a looksie if ya wan't it is a great day out and full of innovation and homebuilt stuff, sounds like you might like it.QUOTE]

Yes I'd like that - where and when do you race?

[Skunk]

Come to the buckets and have a looksie if ya wan't it is a great day out and full of innovation and homebuilt stuff, sounds like you might like it.

Yes I'd like that - where and when do you race?
All the info is here (http://www.scs.net.nz/calendar.php#L-1208606400)

It's The Slipway drift track.

[koba]

[QUOTE=koba;1513840]Not sure, but F5 dave built it and will probably know.
Probably around (maybe not quite) 15 to one.
Come to the buckets and have a looksie if ya wan't it is a great day out and full of innovation and homebuilt stuff, sounds like you might like it.QUOTE]

Yes I'd like that - where and when do you race?


All the info is here (http://www.scs.net.nz/calendar.php#L-1208606400)

It's The Slipway drift track.


Yeah, bowl on up and say hello, I will be the guy in green leathers falling off the little pitbike.