Electronic rear shock?

[johnsv650]

whats a electronic active rear shock ?

[Robert Taylor]

whats a electronic active rear shock ?

Where have you seen reference to that?

[Ixion]

And Mr Grahameeboy (and a good number of Honda owners) desparately want to know where to buy one.

[pete376403]

If you are referring to the magneto rheological type it uses iron powder as a damping medium and a magnetic coil around the damper tube. By varying the current applied to the coil, the magnetic field strength changes and thus the "viscosity" of the iron powder. Ferrari use the on the 599.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_rheological_damper

this also proves that there is really nothing new under the sun. British auto electrics manufacturer Smiths used magnetically controlled iron powder in an automatic gearbox (Smiths easidrive). it was offered in Hillman Minx vehicles in 1959.
so technically there is not that much between Ferraris and Hillman Minxes :-)

[johnsv650]

cogdyracer........yes that tricky sv guy......said he was after one......

[Robert Taylor]

cogdyracer........yes that tricky sv guy......said he was after one......

Ohlins already have but argue that the market is not quite ready for it yet.

[Coldrider]

The market must be ready for it cause some common ol' Holden HSV use them too in the VE series.

[Robert Taylor]

The market must be ready for it cause some common ol' Holden HSV use them too in the VE series.

Well, if the market was ready for it why is there not an avalanche of manufacturers offering same? I think they may collectively have a better feel for the worldwide market than speculation in forums.

Its not just a matter of making them as of tommorrow, the development, investment and tooling required to do so is considerable, there is also not inconsiderable commercial risk. Many otherwise ''solid'' companies have failed because when it came down to tin tacks the market didnt actually accept the new product.

Ohlins for example produced only 5000 TTX36 in the first model year because there was a commercial risk. Happily it has been very successful and production has now been increased substanially. Also they have been making electronic suspension control units for Ford and Volvo for many years, and have produced in excess of a million. If they thought the motorcycle market was ready for such technology they would have done it by now. And I can tell you for one that Stoners and Rossis bikes have no electronic assist in their suspension units.

Id hate to be making the call on a lot of new products, the reality is a hell of a lot more complex than the man on the street often thinks it is.

[geoffm]

bow wow. I too would like to see computer controlled suspension on bikes. Firmware upgrades over the internet ? Custom programming from your home PC ? Yum. Time for a few circles in my basket and then a lie down. *sigh*. /me thumps tail.

DB

It could bring new meaning to the terms "crash" and "blue screen of death"...
The motorcycle industry is incredibly conservative - there have been lots of good ideas (e.g. Hossack frames and others) that are a step forward, but don't work, because the market won't accept anything new. Notice how similar modern bikes are? Irrespective of the maker, you can almost date them to the model year and month. When the makers do try something new, the liability lawyers and accountants ruin it anyway - Yammie GTS1000 for example.

[homer]

nothing gets released in a hurry
its better to milk things more for longer first .
After all if you had the say " gps connected to a small pc on your bike which is connected to the shocks "
then you should get a mapping of the road or track and the pc would adjust it for every bump on the road or track.

[JimBob]

Suffice to say that such capabilities would ( neccessarily ) be kept firmly out of the hands of those with only enough knowledge to be dangerous!

Thats right. We cant have the great unwashed adjusting their own shocks.
Next thing you know they will be programming their own ECU's.
Whats that you say? they are already doing that?
Why hasnt the gummit made a law against this sort of thing?
Its the internet
No wonder the country is going to hell in a handbasket

[Coldrider]

Cost, cost, Cost, did any honda CR1000RR owners have any choice when Honda fitted an electronic steering dampner, will new ZX 10R purchases have a choice with the new traction control system fitted.
Are all the trades that have to support new electronic items up to speed, is it transposing mechanical aptitude to sparkies.

[Robert Taylor]

Cost, cost, Cost, did any honda CR1000RR owners have any choice when Honda fitted an electronic steering dampner, will new ZX 10R purchases have a choice with the new traction control system fitted.
Are all the trades that have to support new electronic items up to speed, is it transposing mechanical aptitude to sparkies.

Thats exactly right. The CBR1000RR and GSXR1000 ( and more new models besides ) have electronic steering dampers. And guess what is the first thing that gets removed and gets replaced with a well developed ''standard technology'' hydraulic one before they go racing? ( at least at the very sharp end ) Function is way more important than hype.

[Coldrider]

Sooner the better we get self tuning electronic suspension referencing from a giro the better, but levitation motorcycles will be just around the corner then.
Oil, springs and valves for suspension were invented how long ago, never worked properly, always a compromise. Remember one turn of a spring is a solid spacer.

[JimBob]

It could bring new meaning to the terms "crash" and "blue screen of death"...
The motorcycle industry is incredibly conservative - there have been lots of good ideas (e.g. Hossack frames and others) that are a step forward, but don't work, because the market won't accept anything new. Notice how similar modern bikes are? Irrespective of the maker, you can almost date them to the model year and month. When the makers do try something new, the liability lawyers and accountants ruin it anyway - Yammie GTS1000 for example.
What did liability lawyers and accountants have to do with the demise of the GTS1000?
I thought it was canned because of low sales. I suppose an accountant would have pointed out that the bike was an economic albatross but liability lawyers?

[FzerozeroT]

http://www.motorcycles.bmw.com.au/scripts/main.asp?PageID=10751&ModelID=3000029&ModelCategoryID=66

The suspension of the BMW K 1200 S is also extremely adaptable to ensure safe road contact. An innovation which is unique in the motorcycling world is responsible for this: ESA (Electronic Suspension Adjustment - optional). The rider can adjust both the damping of the front and rear suspension while riding as well as the spring pre-load when stationary with the engine on.

[Mental Trousers]

not for long. traditionally, that sort of thinking lasts precisely a week, before some smartass on the internet reverse engineers it, writes some software for Linux, and starts an online tuning community website with a download section.

Long may it continue in my opinion. It's about freedom - not who is right and who is wrong. Who cares if the software is bullshit, and the bike handles like crap - not everyone is going to do it, and factory firmware can be replaced in the blink of an eye, and you truly own the thing that you thought you owned.

DB

The family of the guy that went under the truck just after he used a firmware downloaded off the internet would care.

This isn't an operating system, or a web browser, or an email client, or office productivity software, or CAD software etc. It's about making informed decisions when it comes to adjusting potentially lethal weapons. There's a reason not everyone is a suspension engineer. They're analogous to Telco Network Engineers. Those guys are able to flash firmware as and where needed etc and there's widespread open source communities for that occupation, but you wouldn't let Joe Clown loose on Telecom's Junipers. Same difference with suspension.

Besides, as others have pointed out the motorcycle industry is conservative in the extreme. Electronic active suspension has been tried already and was rejected. Even the absolute top of the line bikes in MotoGP still use the good old, simple hydraulic dampers with 3 adjusters (occasionally more but just variations).

[Disco Dan]

Absolutely right, another thread by Disco Dan ( effectively ) reinforces what you have said. I for one am also in favour of personal freedom but not to the point that it affects the liberty of other people. So ''Joe misinformed'' adjusts his suspension into an ill handling and dangerous beast. He takes it out onto the road and it is wobbling so badly at speed that he wanders into the opposite side of the road and kills / maims an innocent family in a car.
If you could ever analyse it I bet the number of deaths and injuries caused by ill handling or unsafe motorcycles ( and cars ) would be enormous. Those that choose to remain naive absolutely do need to be protected from themselves.
Freedom comes at a price.

To delve into the unknown where adjustment can only really be tested by mounting the powerful motorbike and 'giving it a go' is asking for trouble.

Those that seek information and research what they are doing, increase their chances of success, but alas it is not 'fool' proof.

[Pixie]

whats a electronic active rear shock ?

In all the automotive engineering documents I have read,active refers to a system that physically drives the suspended wheel up and down to follow the road surface.
this is done with electro-hydraulic systems or in the case of the Bose system.

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/learning/project_sound/suspension_components.jsp

a purely electromagnetic regenerative suspension strut.

Electronic Damping control is not active suspension - that's the equivalent of having a little robot (not Robert ) twiddling your damper knobs as you ride along.

[Shaun]

One thing I have wanted to see on a shock for a few years now is ELECTRONIC RIDE HEIGHT ADJUSTER

The idea behind this for me was to be able to set your geometry to work best in the fast corners ( You make more time in the fast ones, as opposed to the slow ones) So when your bike is handling really well in the fast stuff, IT WILL BE DIFFICULT to change direction in Hairpins, Chicanes etc ( Unless in the money world, where tripple clamps and head angle can be changed to work best)

SO PUSH THE BOTTON, have a switch on the handle bars like an ECU control switch for fuel maps and timing etc, that has a pre set messurement of movement programmed into it to extend the shock where it mounts into the frame, and PRESTO, a bike that goes through fast and slow corners FAST

It would also be a very real advantage in conditions where it is trying to rain, you could load and unload the front and rear end as much as you the rider wanted to with weight ballance through the geometry

Well I have been called a dreamer before

[CookMySock]

One thing I have wanted to see on a shock for a few years now is ELECTRONIC RIDE HEIGHT ADJUSTER [...] Well I have been called a dreamer beforeNot at all. This was a standard feature on the Citroen cars in the 1960s. It wasn't a short-lived fad either - it is still in use today on their modern cars, and the system is widely envied by many manufacturers. They weren't called a flying carpet for nothing.

Considering the base unit for bikes and the citroens' hydropneumatic suspension is a plain hydraulic ram, there is little or no reason why such a system could not be adapted to a bike. You will get laughed at for sure, but there will be no more comfortable or capable suspension system than that.

Since the system is fully hydraulic, it is perfectly trivial to move oil around and alter ride height. Yes, it needs a pump.

Build one. ;)

DB

[Robert Taylor]

Not at all. This was a standard feature on the Citroen cars in the 1960s. It wasn't a short-lived fad either - it is still in use today on their modern cars, and the system is widely envied by many manufacturers. They weren't called a flying carpet for nothing.

Considering the base unit for bikes and the citroens' hydropneumatic suspension is a plain hydraulic ram, there is little or no reason why such a system could not be adapted to a bike. You will get laughed at for sure, but there will be no more comfortable or capable suspension system than that.

Since the system is fully hydraulic, it is perfectly trivial to move oil around and alter ride height. Yes, it needs a pump.

Build one. ;)

DB
Yes but the very speed of ride height control change is nowhere near fast enough for what Shaun states he would like. In order that the hardware would not be bulky and pwer consuming in a motorcycle application the engineers would be faced with an enormous challenge. So very often its the application of that technology and the cost that are the determining factors, otherwise we would see more evidence of it already.

[jonbuoy]

Not at all. This was a standard feature on the Citroen cars in the 1960s. It wasn't a short-lived fad either - it is still in use today on their modern cars, and the system is widely envied by many manufacturers. They weren't called a flying carpet for nothing.

Considering the base unit for bikes and the citroens' hydropneumatic suspension is a plain hydraulic ram, there is little or no reason why such a system could not be adapted to a bike. You will get laughed at for sure, but there will be no more comfortable or capable suspension system than that.

Since the system is fully hydraulic, it is perfectly trivial to move oil around and alter ride height. Yes, it needs a pump.

Build one. ;)

DB

Flying carpet- more like driving a hot air balloon - body goes one way chassis another. It was to handle the shitty French roads - from deep rutted cart tracks to smooth motorways. High tech isn't always better - Austin Minis used plain old rubber cones instead of springs - look how well they handled back in the day.

[Robert Taylor]

Im scared to now, YOU might reply

I wasnt referring to your posts as you very well know.

[CookMySock]

I fully accept that not everyone can afford top shelf suspension, that is exactly why we are initiating re-specing of standard oem suspension units to a high standard. [..more ohlins talk deleted..]
If anyone asks a straightforward question or two I am more than happy to answer them, if that can be avoided without stupid meaningless posts all the better!We DONT HAVE a straight-forward question - we are newbs - we have no idea what we need - that is supposed to be the professionals job to establish that.

So why didn't you say about respeccing MY suspension instead of all this ohlins ohlins ohlins talk in my thread a few weeks ago ? I discovered elsewhere that I can probably change the spring in it and get the pre-load in-range !! shock horror! All I was left with was trolling trademe for ohlins stuff that was never going to fit.

DB

[Shaun]

In deffense of Robert here, ( If it is required) Some times Robert comes accross as Ohlin's is the only unit worth using ( But does agknoledge other quality product) WELL HE IS THE OIHLINS NZ MAN, and has spent a lot of time and money, growing with his product.

He can ( For some) come across very strong RE CRAP PRODUCT

I am sure these comments of his, come from pulling apart Standard units all the time, and looking at the engineering quality of the Standard units, compared to an Ohlins, which will aid his oppinion of there lack of quality.

Me and Robert have had our differences, BUT CONTINUE TO WORK TOGETHER IN OUR WAY

Robert is extremmely fussy with his product, be it Ohlins or standard or what ever, Don't knock him for saying what he thinks and believes, and some times, YES, he will miss a question from someone, or may forgett to allude to the fact there is another product availlable, REMEMBER, him being on here, is good for the riders, and what he does on here, is done in his own time, LOOK AT THE TIMES OF SOME OF HIS POSTS, After hours, he is passionate about this game, and is a very good buisness man

[Pussy]

In deffense of Robert here, ( If it is required) Some times Robert comes accross as Ohlin's is the only unit worth using ( But does agknoledge other quality product) WELL HE IS THE OIHLINS NZ MAN, and has spent a lot of time and money, growing with his product.

He can ( For some) come across very strong RE CRAP PRODUCT

I am sure these comments of his, come from pulling apart Standard units all the time, and looking at the engineering quality of the Standard units, compared to an Ohlins, which will aid his oppinion of there lack of quality.

Me and Robert have had our differences, BUT CONTINUE TO WORK TOGETHER IN OUR WAY

Robert is extremmely fussy with his product, be it Ohlins or standard or what ever, Don't knock him for saying what he thinks and believes, and some times, YES, he will miss a question from someone, or may forgett to allude to the fact there is another product availlable, REMEMBER, him being on here, is good for the riders, and what he does on here, is done in his own time, LOOK AT THE TIMES OF SOME OF HIS POSTS, After hours, he is passionate about this game, and is a very good buisness man
Well said, Shaun! I wonder if people do realise how much RT does for EVERYONE who is a motorcyclist, not just you race guns

[JimBob]

Homing in about your questioning re the need ( ? )for top quality suspension.....and this is not a tit for tat response, just a ''clinical'' analysis. You know those nasty abrupt bumps that on many bikes with oem suspension you actually avoid as much as possible, and you cannot adjust everything externally to allow for it? We actually rework a lot of suspension units and sell shocks so that you can delight in riding over such bumps.And lets face it we do have a high percentage of bumpy roads that ideally require suspension with great bump absorption qualities while maintaining excellent ride height control. Most of our customers are ordinary everyday road riders and not racers. They seek better chassis control and ride compliance.
Over the decades I have seen inside thousands upon thousands of shock absorbers and in reality its scary just how crude the suspension internals are in many machines. Some can be reworked to a very decent level of performance, within the constraints of what you can do with such stuff. If you start with a higher baseline ( high quality aftermarket ) you can improve to a yet higher level, which also does help everyday road riders in terms of chassis ride precision, ride complinace AND tyre life.
There is a disturbing new trend in sportbike cartridges of making sealed non servicable units and its going to take a little imagination to get round that whilst trying to maintain a cost ceiling.
Suspension internals are largely out of sight and out of mind to everyone but a suspension specialist that actually is involved with working right to the bare bones. In all fairness I can lay claim in that respect to being much more intimate than any specialist involved in just external setup. But also my point is its actually very difficult to relay to an end user just how plausible improvements can be until they are actually ridden on, hope that makes some sense.

Agree 100%
Where we disagree is the requirement or need for an upgrade.
Your point of view is from a suspension expert who knows that the majority of suspensions arent right and should be fixed.
I am coming from a motorcyclists view of basically if I dont have a problem why should I fix it? especially if it costs a lot of $$
My point is that for many if not most riders the problems they experience are not enough to make them WANT to upgrade. Granted a fair number of these people probably havent experienced good suspension so their terms of reference are a bit skewed, and I am sure if they rode a bike with decent suspension very few would want to go back.
You alluded to the real "problem" when you said suspension is largely out of sight out of mind.
Motorcyling over the last 20-25 years has changed from a transport option to a leisure/lifestyle/image/social thing. Someone mentioned before that you would get more bang for your buck by spending 2k on suspension rather than an exhaust. Couldnt agree more, but quite often you will be the only one who knows you have quality suspension (unless the spring is a bright colour like say yellow and you have some stickers) but everyone will see and hear your exhaust and realise that this guy knows his stuff. The true afficianadoes look at the name on the exhaust before deciding if this guy is a poser or the real deal.
The same image thing applies to suspension. I am sure a lot of people purchase Ohlins not because they actually NEED it but because it is the cool thing to have. Would you sell so many if the unit was basic silver or black and didnt come with stickers?
Having said all that I still think that the stock suspension on most bikes isnt too bad. The last thing any of the manufacturers wants is their bikes gettting the wobbles at 250k and crashing. So while they are built to a budget oem still has to work to an acceptable degree.
Not saying it cant be improved but for most people the need for improvement (from their point of view)may not be there.
So we can agree to disagree on this point.

BTW I dont think I was splitting hairs or being overly emotive. I made some points which people are free to rebut.
Different point of view, thats all it is.
cheers

[CookMySock]

and then there is the point of view of another (potential) customer, that he would like his bike a bit better while spending under a grand.

I like dealing with boffins who are only interested in perfection and stand their ground, but at some stage they have to speak to real people. I really enjoy trying to warp my mind around their ways and elevated thought processes where humanly possible, but veiled insults really put me off. I don't even like to ask their advice any more, in case they are inadvertantly rude to me again, which as their frustration rises, they are certainly going to be.

DB

[Robert Taylor]

and then there is the point of view of another (potential) customer, that he would like his bike a bit better while spending under a grand.

I like dealing with boffins who are only interested in perfection and stand their ground, but at some stage they have to speak to real people. I really enjoy trying to warp my mind around their ways and elevated thought processes where humanly possible, but veiled insults really put me off. I don't even like to ask their advice any more, in case they are inadvertantly rude to me again, which as their frustration rises, they are certainly going to be.

DB

And no-one else was rude? You may be able to find something for under 1k but is it going to work?

[Robert Taylor]

The March issue of BIKE reports on a BMW GS, it may be the Adventure, which has button adjustable preload and damping I think. It read as if there were two buttons?

I can't check on the details because I loaned the mag to the guys @ Energy Honda because there was also a report on the new CBR1000RR...

That mag may still be available in the shops?

On a different topic, I bought my original Ohlins off TradeMe. Having some difficulty understanding the suspension threads on here I bought a book to explain some of the dark art. The book was a modest help.

I recently took the bike to Robert and explained what was bothering me and what I wanted. He explained what needed to be done. Suffice to say it has made a big difference. But there is already another thread reporting on that.

Ohlins have made shock absorbers for some BMW models with handlebar mounted electronically activated damping adjusters. But sales worldwide have not been exactly stellar which raises the question, is the market in reality actually ready for it?

[FilthyLuka]

Ohlins have made shock absorbers for some BMW models with handlebar mounted electronically activated damping adjusters. But sales worldwide have not been exactly stellar which raises the question, is the market in reality actually ready for it?

Further more, has anyone actually ridden one of these BMW's? Is it even necessary or purely there for wank factor?

[Robert Taylor]

Further more, has anyone actually ridden one of these BMW's? Is it even necessary or purely there for wank factor?

At least on the Ohlins version ( all that I am familiar with ) it is actually a device to close off or open further the low speed compression bypass needle. That actually works out to be useful on undulating roads that cause 'g out' because the adjustment gives more overall damping to ''catch'' sudden movements more effectively. To an extent this will also compensate some for the g out caused by a passenger and extra baggage. Especially useful on BMWs that can tend to get loaded in this way.
Thankyou to those who posted their support for me in a no win situation of an argumenatative disposition.

[Hinny]

If you are referring to the magneto rheological type it uses iron powder as a damping medium and a magnetic coil around the damper tube. By varying the current applied to the coil, the magnetic field strength changes and thus the "viscosity" of the iron powder. Ferrari use the on the 599.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magneto_rheological_damper

this also proves that there is really nothing new under the sun. British auto electrics manufacturer Smiths used magnetically controlled iron powder in an automatic gearbox (Smiths easidrive). it was offered in Hillman Minx vehicles in 1959.
so technically there is not that much between Ferraris and Hillman Minxes :-)

Hillman Minxs would be able to navigate the ridiculous roads we have around Remuera/One Tree Hill better than almost any newish Ferrari. The Ferraris don't have the ground clearance to navigate the ski jumps slapped all over our roads.
It's no wonder there are so many Remuera tractors around.
The morons who destroy our roads with bumps and chicanes like maladjusted meglomaniacal bmx/autocross track designers need to be taken outside and shot.

[Hinny]

At least on the Ohlins version ( all that I am familiar with ) it is actually a device to close off or open further the low speed compression bypass needle. That actually works out to be useful on undulating roads that cause 'g out' because the adjustment gives more overall damping to ''catch'' sudden movements more effectively. To an .

'g out' ?

I have Rancho adjustable dampers on my Safari. They recommend hard settings for off-road and soft for highway cruising. I always thought this was arse about face.
Are you saying the adjustment to have 'more overall damping to "catch" sudden movements' is the same as their 'hard' setting?

[Robert Taylor]

'g out' ?

I have Rancho adjustable dampers on my Safari. They recommend hard settings for off-road and soft for highway cruising. I always thought this was arse about face.
Are you saying the adjustment to have 'more overall damping to "catch" sudden movements' is the same as their 'hard' setting?

No, those are US ( Mexican ? ) made shocks. Soft / highway cruise mode is for smooth roads because there are no sudden large stroke movements that need ''catching''. I had a set of Rancho adjustables on a vehicle and was so dissappointed with them that I removed them and built something that both gave me ride height control and absorbed the nasty abrupt bumps.

I think in the mass market auto industry its very often a case of will the shock fit and over simplistic terms like hard and soft are used. That can often mean rock hard or slightly less rock hard. So little attention is paid to the motion ratio, how fast and how far the shock shafts move relative to wheel movement. In most shocks damping is proportional to velocity.

I wonder how many millions are wasted every year because the damping and spring calibration of what has been fitted does not match the motion ratio imparted to it. Very often its because many ''fitters'' in the auto industries and private individuals choose to learn nothing about it. And there are many ''experts'' who are not that at all. I was assured by an auto shock shop that those Rancho shocks would be ''just the ticket''. Food for thought.

[Hinny]

No, those are US ( Mexican ? ) made shocks. Soft / highway cruise mode is for smooth roads because there are no sudden large stroke movements that need ''catching''.

I use the hard setting on the highway to limit body roll - firm up the suspension.


So little attention is paid to the motion ratio, how fast and how far the shock shafts move relative to wheel movement. In most shocks damping is proportional to velocity.

I thought the soft setting was best for off road to allow for maximum wheel travel/bump absorption. Like a motocross bike. Faster speeds giving more damping.


Very often its because many ''fitters'' in the auto industries and private individuals choose to learn nothing about it. And there are many ''experts'' who are not that at all. I was assured by an auto shock shop that those Rancho shocks would be ''just the ticket''. .

I was told that too.

Like the Koni shock on my bike. Do I have it soft for highway cruising one up and harder for racing around with full luggage? Wind the pre-load up for luggage/ pillion? Does this include high speed riding?

Do I just come and see you?

[JimBob]

Thankyou to those who posted their support for me in a no win situation of an argumenatative disposition.
Dont mention it! Happy to help. Obviously the easiest way to win an argument is to remove dissent. Problem solved.

[Robert Taylor]

I use the hard setting on the highway to limit body roll - firm up the suspension.



I thought the soft setting was best for off road to allow for maximum wheel travel/bump absorption. Like a motocross bike. Faster speeds giving more damping.



I was told that too.

Like the Koni shock on my bike. Do I have it soft for highway cruising one up and harder for racing around with full luggage? Wind the pre-load up for luggage/ pillion? Does this include high speed riding?

Do I just come and see you?

The answer is in part that those Rancho shocks ( like many afermarket auto shocks ) do not have a sophisticated valving stack that modulates according to shaft velocity. The external adjustment for damping is probably little more than a bypass bleed. In truth they lack low speed damping control which in part is why you get so much body roll, but also this is best complimented by an anti-rollbar ( we have adjustable anti rollbars on the race cars I work with ) But also ( correct me if I am wrong ) when you wind those shocks up to hard the ride becomes very harsh over abrupt bumps.
Most passenger cars ( and many many bikes ) lack low speed damping control, often the dampers are only single acting and have lots of preload on the springs to effect a crude measure of ride height control. Those that do have a compression damping curve will also usually ''hydraulically choke off'' when encountering abrupt obstacles, those ones you grit your teeth about.

[Hinny]

Yes the ride is harsh over bumps at low speed. At low speed I put them on the soft setting and disconnect the anti-roll bar. This works very well enabling you to travel over rough tracks like riding down a highway. On the hard setting on the road the suspension firms up and it handles remarkably well. Don't feel highway bumps. It tends to wallow a bit like a standard vehicle if the shocks are on soft.
Do I use the adjuster on my bikes Koni shock in a similar manner? Softer for low speed / rough roads etc. and harder for high speed touring.