Want to help the Tibetans?

[Mad Max]

Want to make a difference to someone else life

If you believe that China should improve it’s human rights policy or you just want China to recognise Tibet’s right to maintain it’s cultural identity why not put some very effective pressure on the Chinese government.

Believe it or not you have way more power than you own government does when it comes to influencing foreign government policy. If you government tries to influence another government the issue turns in to a political bun fight and they typically achieve nothing.

You, on the other hand have the power to pressure the foreign government from within they own country. Stop buying goods made in that country and tell the retailer, distributor or even the manufacturer themselves that you are not going to purchase any goods made in their country because you disagree with their governments policy on . . . . . (insert appropriate issue here).

When manufacturer’s start to lose business and the know it is due to their own government policies they will very quickly start applying pressure to the government to change their policies.

By simply not buying goods made in China, even for 1 month, Chinese manufacturers lose a significant amount of revenue. Even if you delay purchasing goods made in China for a few weeks or even a couple of months it will have a big impact on their annual sales figures.

The key to making this work is giving some thought to where the goods you buy are made and telling the retailer, distributor or manufacturer that you didn’t buy their goods because of the Chinese government’s policies.

If you can avoid buying Chinese goods you actually achieve 2 significant things, 10 you give a clear message to the Chinese government that their polices are effecting their financial growth and 2) if you buy goods that are manufactured locally you are supporting you own countries economy and manufacturer’s.

A small amount of effort on your part can have a huge impact on other peoples lives, everyone has the right to live their life free from persecution.

So if you want to make a difference; stop, reduce, or delay, purchasing Chinese made goods and encourage you friends and families to do the same. You’ll be amazed how effective this can be.

[xwhatsit]

By simply not buying goods made in China, even for 1 month, Chinese manufacturers lose a significant amount of revenue. Even if you delay purchasing goods made in China for a few weeks or even a couple of months it will have a big impact on their annual sales figures.
:laugh::laugh::lol::lol:

LOL WUT!!!1111oneoneeleven!!~

Do you know how big that country is?

Do you know how piss-arse small we are in comparison?




And no, I don't want to help the Tibetans. The Dalai Lama might be a nice man, but killing Chinese people and running them out of their own shops then whinging about the Olympics just to get some attention doesn't earn my sympathy. Stop watching biased CNN and get some perspective.

[Oakie]

For perspective a few days ago I read a large entry on the whole Tibet v China thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet . People think this is a newish issue but China / Tibet political interaction goes way back about 1400 years.

I won't tell anyone what to think as I haven't processed it all myself but suggest they read the item for themselves so they know the whole history. It's quite interesting (but then again I always found history interesting).

[Steam]

Do you know how big that country is?

Do you know how piss-arse small we are in comparison?


True, it will do nothing. China wouldn't even feel it as a sandfly bite. Not even an itch. Nothing.



And no, I don't want to help the Tibetans. The Dalai Lama might be a nice man, but killing Chinese people and running them out of their own shops then whinging about the Olympics just to get some attention doesn't earn my sympathy. Stop watching biased CNN and get some perspective.

Watch out you don't swallow the Chinese propaganda hook, line, and sinker Xerxes!
Look up the deaths on both sides; according to independent reports about 15 Chinese people have been killed, and about 100 Tibetans.
In the worst example, a group of 20 just-arrested-protesters were found dead, they had been lined up against a wall and shot outside the local prison.
That is not legitimate riot control, that's a massacre.

[idb]

I hate the way that Tibet looks down on the rest of the world!

[Tank]

For perspective a few days ago I read a large entry on the whole Tibet v China thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet . People think this is a newish issue but China / Tibet political interaction goes way back about 1400 years.



Try getting to that link from inside China.

But seriously - the majority of people are simply jumping on the bandwagon. Have they done anything to help Tibet before? Probably not.

Its just another trendy thing for people to cling onto.

After the Olympics there will be another 'protest flavor of the month' to be pissed about and everyone (except our mate Winston) will go back to buying Chinese goods and forget all about Tibet.

and THATS why I have no respect for the majority of people who complain about it. Note I say majority - not all because there are a few people who really do care and have been protesting about this for years - them I have respect for.

[Tank]

pfft to prove a point I just asked someone who keeps complaining about Tibet and the great evil China each and every lunchtime here (well for the last two weeks anyway).

Asked her to point to Tibet on a map.

She told me she could find it with Google earth but wasn't actually sure where it was near.

[xwhatsit]

For perspective a few days ago I read a large entry on the whole Tibet v China thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Tibet . People think this is a newish issue but China / Tibet political interaction goes way back about 1400 years.

I won't tell anyone what to think as I haven't processed it all myself but suggest they read the item for themselves so they know the whole history. It's quite interesting (but then again I always found history interesting).

Exactly. I've got a few friends from Hong Kong -- now you think that they'd be down on this whole Tibet thing like a tonne of bricks (being a semi-independent sort of state until China gobbled them back up again), but even they're kind of pissed off with the news coverage and public carry-on. It's simply not balanced reporting at all, and the general public are behaving in their typical mindless groupthink way.

[ManDownUnder]

It's simply not balanced reporting at all, and the general public are behaving in their typical mindless groupthink way.

That's like KB!

I was going to buy Chinese for lunch but I've gone Turkish instead. That'll fuck 'em! $6.00 they're starved of for their anti-Tibetan tirades.

[Oakie]

That's like KB!

I was going to buy Chinese for lunch but I've gone Turkish instead. That'll fuck 'em! $6.00 they're starved of for their anti-Tibetan tirades.

But the Turks are staging cross border raids into Iraq and killing the Kurds.

[Tank]

That's like KB!

I was going to buy Chinese for lunch but I've gone Turkish instead. That'll fuck 'em! $6.00 they're starved of for their anti-Tibetan tirades.

NOOO!!! you cannot buy Turkish.

There is the whole Greco-Turkish issue to take into account. There have been 4 wars over this and goodness knows how many deaths.

By tucking into your loosely packed kebab you are choosing sides in a conflict that has been going on 100 years.

[Steam]

It's simply not balanced reporting at all, and the general public are behaving in their typical mindless groupthink way.

Sorry to harp on about it Xerxes, but have you seen the Tibetan death tolls? Both historical, since 1950, and the smaller death toll recently?
The Chinese themselves admit they've killed more than 80,000 Tibetans since 1950, and the real number is more likely to be in the hundreds of thousands. The Tibetan government in exile reckons it's more like a million dead, but that's not a reliable figure.

[Skyryder]

To understand what's going on in Tibet today you have to go back to 1950 when Chinese troops invaded Tibet. The only difference is that now the Tibetans are fighting back.


Skyryder

[Steam]

But the Turks are staging cross border raids into Iraq and killing the Kurds.
Curds! Do they make them into cheese?

[ManDownUnder]

But the Turks are staging cross border raids into Iraq and killing the Kurds.

OH NO! So... are there any Kurdish restaurants here in town, and will dining there upset the anti Tibetan Chinese as much?

OK - back on topic, the intentions are good... don't get me wrong I heartely applaud people standing and acting on what they believe in. I ask this though - what would China's response be if there was a totally effective campaign against them?

I personally think those in power would not suffer at all for the rest of their lives, the honest, hard working masses would suffer through a lack of sales, money and therefore food and the ne4cessities of life, and they would also be kept in the dark through a staged censorship program such that the rest of the world would be blamed for their misfortunes.

Just my take on it, and I'm not proposing solutions because I don;t really know any. I'm simply raising the flag and saying that I think this course of action, well intended though it was, would hurt those least deserving.

[ManDownUnder]

There is the whole Greco-Turkish issue to take into account. There have been 4 wars over this and goodness knows how many deaths.

Which explains why the kebabs are often dripping with Grease! Thank you. It's not actually lamb at all!

[Tank]

Which explains why the kebabs are often dripping with Grease! Thank you. It's not actually lamb at all!

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[idb]

But the Turks are staging cross border raids into Iraq and killing the Kurds.

No wonder cheese is so bloody dear!

[idb]

Curds! Do they make them into cheese?

Damn damn damn!!!!

[Oakie]

To understand what's going on in Tibet today you have to go back to 1950 when Chinese troops invaded Tibet. The only difference is that now the Tibetans are fighting back.Skyryder

In 1950 China invaded a small part of Tibet. The Tibetans fought back then but came second.
In 1951, representatives of Tibetan authority participated in negotiations in Beijing with Chinese government. It resulted in a Seventeen Point Agreement which affirmed China's sovereignty over Tibet. The agreement was ratified in Lhasa (the capital of Tibet) a few months later. How much choice they had in signing that agreement I'm not sure. After that the Chinese did improve the Tibetan infrastructure ... roads, schools hospitals etc however religious and political freedom suffered.

I think a lot of the protestors out there today believe than China simply invaded out of the blue and took over the whole country. Wasn't quite that cut and dried.

[Swoop]

By tucking into your loosely packed kebab you are choosing sides in a conflict that has been going on 100 years.
Only 100 years of loosely packed kebab? Damn, I might have to take this thing inter.. Oh no..., to Edgecumbe!:whistle:

Curds! Do they make them into cheese?
So where is the country called "Whey"?:scratch:

[Tank]

I think a lot of the protestors out there today believe than China simply invaded out of the blue and took over the whole country. Wasn't quite that cut and dried.

Ignorance of the facts wont stop 'rent a crowd' from protesting tho'

[Oakie]

Only 100 years of loosely packed kebab? Damn, I might have to take this thing inter.. Oh no..., to Edgecumbe!:whistle:

So where is the country called "Whey"?:scratch:

So Saddam Hussein couldn't invade Turkey because like Little Miss Muffett, he had Kurds in his Whey?

[Hitcher]

We should immediately declare war on China. That should put the shits up them.

[Steam]

So Saddam Hussein couldn't invade Turkey because like Little Miss Muffett, he had Kurds in his Whey?

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a pun winner!

Holy spit that's good. Did you think of that yourself?! Bling for you!

[ManDownUnder]

We should immediately declare war on China. That should put the shits up them.

Take the condoms off our strike force hardware, train up a few pilots and we'll be away laughing!

[Oakie]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a pun winner!

Holy spit that's good. Did you think of that yourself?! Bling for you!

Aww shucks. I'd like to claim it as original but I may have heard it somewhere else a few years ago. Can't be sure now.

[Hitcher]

Take the condoms off our strike force hardware, train up a few pilots and we'll be away laughing!

There and back on a tank of gas? No worries.

[ManDownUnder]

There and back on a tank of gas? No worries.

It's election year - can't we use all that hot air?

[idb]

We should immediately declare war on China. That should put the shits up them.

We've already got them surrounded in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Solomons and they still haven't surrendered.

[Tank]

We've already got them surrounded in Afghanistan, Iraq and the Solomons and they still haven't surrendered.

Funny thing they have us surrounded also:

Howick, Pinehill, Birkenhead .....

[Manxman]

Try getting to that link from inside China.

But seriously - the majority of people are simply jumping on the bandwagon. Have they done anything to help Tibet before? Probably not.

Its just another trendy thing for people to cling onto.

After the Olympics there will be another 'protest flavor of the month' to be pissed about and everyone (except our mate Winston) will go back to buying Chinese goods and forget all about Tibet.

and THATS why I have no respect for the majority of people who complain about it. Note I say majority - not all because there are a few people who really do care and have been protesting about this for years - them I have respect for.

...onya mate - a point well made.

To all those tree hugging, warm fuzzy people out there who fight for whales' right and this right and that right and the other right: go forth and apply as much effort to the issues in yer own backyard (noting that another baby has 'suspicious' injuries today - ie this week's real tragedy http://stuff.co.nz/4473883a11.html :Oi:). Gangs, meth, drunken yoof, etc.

I have this theory that many protestors are actually in it just for themselves, ie egotistical attention seekers, who haven't got the balls to fight for a 'real' cause, ie one that would require real effort, real thought, real dialogue and real solutions. This profile could be easily applied to many greenies and many labour politicians.

I'm with this guy. He talks muchos sense. There is usually another side to every story...

[Manxman]

That's like KB!

I was going to buy Chinese for lunch but I've gone Turkish instead. That'll fuck 'em! $6.00 they're starved of for their anti-Tibetan tirades.

But mate, haven't you heard what the Turks are doing to the Kurds...how could you buy Turkish - the shame. (P/T):shifty:

[Manxman]

We should immediately declare war on China. That should put the shits up them.

Nah, just send Winston. He'll sort the feckers.

[Wiki Drifter]

US American geography....:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kzNWi5h8Hs

[Forest]

In 1950 China invaded a small part of Tibet. The Tibetans fought back then but came second.
In 1951, representatives of Tibetan authority participated in negotiations in Beijing with Chinese government. It resulted in a Seventeen Point Agreement which affirmed China's sovereignty over Tibet. The agreement was ratified in Lhasa (the capital of Tibet) a few months later. How much choice they had in signing that agreement I'm not sure. After that the Chinese did improve the Tibetan infrastructure ... roads, schools hospitals etc however religious and political freedom suffered.

I think a lot of the protestors out there today believe than China simply invaded out of the blue and took over the whole country. Wasn't quite that cut and dried.

No it wasn't cut and dried at all.

For example the CIA put the Dalai Lama onto their payroll between the 1950s through to the 1970s, and he arranged funding and support to train Tibetan guerilla soldiers who fought against the Chinese army. This carried on until Nixon came to power and established closer links between the USA and China (at which point the CIA stopped aiding the Tibetans).

Before the Chinese came along, Tibet was a complete shit-hole with most of the land and wealth concentrated in the hands of an aristocratic and cruel ruling class. In my opinion the Chinese have done a huge amount to modernise the country.

[Mad Max]

So everyone needs to be "modernised" do they?

Ever give some thought to the Abo’s in OZ, They had been getting along just fine for several thousand years, not fucking up the environment, very little in the way of social problems and they would have continued that way for another several thousand years but now they are “modernised” they would have to be one of the most fucked up native people on the planet.

Bring on more “progress” then should we?

What ever happened to leaving people alone to live there own lives without imposing another cultures values on them. Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

[Macstar]

So everyone needs to be "modernised" do they?

Ever give some thought to the Abo’s in OZ, They had been getting along just fine for several thousand years, not fucking up the environment, very little in the way of social problems and they would have continued that way for another several thousand years but now they are “modernised” they would have to be one of the most fucked up native people on the planet.

Bring on more “progress” then should we?

What ever happened to leaving people alone to live there own lives without imposing another cultures values on them. Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

I agree with this statement Mad Max. Development and modernisation boasts a better quality of life and length. However, on the flipside we have more depression in modern society, less community/family bonds and more stress. Add the 'materialism treadmill' of never-achievable-fulfilment through consumtion and the argument to leave the Rainforest people and their habitat alone starts to make a bit of sense.

Consumer boycotts are effective. Look up the Ivg League universities and Pepsi. That movement started with a few students on one campus and quickly spread to several US-based unis. Pepsi eventually responded with a manipulative ownership change structure in Burma that led protesters to believe the company's foreign direct inestment had been withdrawn (when in fact it hadn't). But anyway - power to the people!

Nike corporation also took a beating in its home-town from the local university students a few years back.

I'd be keen to know more about Fonterra's actions abroad where it's been spending up large in South America and China. Unconfirmed reports exist of local farmers being pressured to sell land and of Fonterra-contracted farmers polluting waterways (worse than they do here in NZ) in these countries.

[Forest]

So everyone needs to be "modernised" do they?

Ever give some thought to the Abo’s in OZ, They had been getting along just fine for several thousand years, not fucking up the environment, very little in the way of social problems and they would have continued that way for another several thousand years but now they are “modernised” they would have to be one of the most fucked up native people on the planet.

Your view of the traditional Aboriginal way of life is absurdly romantic.

They didn't live in a harsh and unpredictable wilderness because they wanted to - they lived there because they had no other option.



Bring on more “progress” then should we?


Yes. Providing access to development is a fundamental human right



What ever happened to leaving people alone to live there own lives without imposing another cultures values on them. Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

Have you considered that people often cannot live by their own hands? The world is filled with failed states ruled by capricious and cruel leaders.

Consider - Afghanistan, North Korea, Burma/Myanmar, Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Sudan, Haiti ...

The non-interventionist point of view condemns these people to further suffering.

[Oakie]

Tibet may have been a shit hole by your standards but did they ask for Chinese occupation and modernisation to “improve” their country?

In a word ... yes... in 1951.

[Oakie]

Hmmm. It's just occured to me to wonder if human rights there are any worse there now than they were when it was a country where serfdom was the norm and slavery was not unknown.

[tommorth]

we need support the chinese government in everthing they do so we can continue to buy cheap goods which allow us to feel rich if 3rd world countrys had decent payrates and working conditions the goods they produced wouldnt be cheap and we would be forced to realise that we are all poor

[Macstar]

we need support the chinese government in everthing they do so we can continue to buy cheap goods which allow us to feel rich if 3rd world countrys had decent payrates and working conditions the goods they produced wouldnt be cheap and we would be forced to realise that we are all poor

HMmm. This is a good point too!