Guardian angel working overtime....

[El Dopa]

Just had a bit of a narrow escape. Need to vent.

Turns out that a Speed Triple isn't supposed to be used as a motard, especially when you weren't expecting to stick your foot on the deck mid-corner....

Long story short - 3 corners into my very first ride on my 2nd-hand-but-new-to-me bike, the LH footpeg assembly saw fit to part company with the rest of the bike. The toes on my left foot tucked under and ripped the top of the boot open.

Bike stayed upright and I stayed on it, so I'm fine apart from some bruising on the top of my foot. But I'm feeling a bit sick now thinking about what could have happened.

Any mechanical engineers out there with any knowledge of stress fracture analysis?

[El Dopa]

Pics attached.

[Devil]

Farkin hell!
Thats not right!

[Usarka]

Lucky you werent wearing jandals.....

ouch.

[Katman]

Is that the shitiest casting you've ever seen in your life or has that been welded before?

[Blackbird]

Any mechanical engineers out there with any knowledge of stress fracture analysis?

There's some slight polishing round the outside edge of the fracture which suggests that cracking has been present for some time - a classic stress fracture although you'd need a magnifying glass or microscope to confirm it. Whether this has been caused by a previous impact (crash, dropped whilst stationary etc) or not I can't tell. If it's second hand, I wonder what its history is? Any slight tell-tale marks anywhere else on that side of the bike? (bar end, mirror or elsewhere?

Normally, I'd expect parts like this to have been pressure die cast but if they have been, the quality isn't flash as the pitting which you can see in the close-up look like gas release whilst in the molten state. That's unusual for pressure die casting. Maybe it's a weld repair. They can also act as stress raisers.

I'd certainly be wanting to look closely at your other peg too, just as a precautionary measure.

[McJim]

That's an amateur repair gone wrong. That is not triumph standard casting. If you have the spare dosh try and invest in some after market cnc machined rearsets.

[Macstar]

If I were you I'd also be thorougly checking the rest of the bike...

[blacksheep]

that been weld repaired very poorly imho

[YellowDog]

Why don't you talk to the guy who sold to you?

[tri boy]

Yep. Shitty weld/patch up job.
Glad your okay. Could of been nasty. (WOF/LTSA may be interested in this. Poor repair, non certified welding etc) up to you to push it further or not.:yes:

[Blackbird]

Yep. Shitty weld/patch up job.
Glad your okay. Could of been nasty. (WOF/LTSA may be interested in this. Poor repair, non certified welding etc) up to you to push it further or not.:yes:

If you want to take it further but discreetly, PM Freebird. He's the senior mechanical engineer at Land Transport.

[PrincessBandit]

There's some slight polishing round the outside edge of the fracture which suggests that cracking has been present for some time - a classic stress fracture although you'd need a magnifying glass or microscope to confirm it. Whether this has been caused by a previous impact (crash, dropped whilst stationary etc) or not I can't tell. If it's second hand, I wonder what its history is? Any slight tell-tale marks anywhere else on that side of the bike? (bar end, mirror or elsewhere?

...
I'd certainly be wanting to look closely at your other peg too, just as a precautionary measure.

Without reading all the posts I showed my husband the pix (he's a mechanical engineer) and he said exactly the same as you - basically the result of a previous fracture. So glad to hear that your g-a did their job!

[martybabe]

That really is a crap cast, Original or not. Glad your ok mate.

[Tony.OK]

Lucky you had decent boots on,bad luck mate.

[TLDV8]

Any mechanical engineers out there with any knowledge of stress fracture analysis?

Glad your injury was not worse. (You were very lucky by the sounds of it)

If i am not mistaken,the weld (repair) porosity is clear to see.

[El Dopa]

If it's second hand, I wonder what its history is? Any slight tell-tale marks anywhere else on that side of the bike? (bar end, mirror or elsewhere?

I looked the bike over pretty carefully before buying. Given that it's a naked, I would have expected to see scratches on the frame and engine if it had been down the road - I couldn't spot any of the normal tell-tales.

I'm the fourth owner. The previous owner had only had it for three weeks before me. He bought it from a dealer, the dealer had it as part of a trade-in from the original owner, who had owned it for a couple of years, and who had been scrupulous about servicing etc (all servicing done by the dealer).

I phoned the dealer pre-purchase and they didn't say anything that gave me cause for alarm - they knew the bike well and reckoned it was mint.


Normally, I'd expect parts like this to have been pressure die cast but if they have been, the quality isn't flash as the pitting which you can see in the close-up look like gas release whilst in the molten state. That's unusual for pressure die casting. Maybe it's a weld repair. They can also act as stress raisers.

I noticed the pitting after picking it up off the side of the road. My first thought was 'bad casting'. Bit weird cos it looks like an OEM part.

There are a few other marks on the peg - scratches and stuff, but it's almost impossible for me to tell if they were there before it went down the road. The peg-end isn't scratched - the peg hasn't been on the deck.

Question: Is it possible to weld something like that and not leave a big welding seam, or any other trace (welding rod material)? I'm pretty sure I would have spotted a seam when I looked the bike over. I'm also pretty sure when I get the bike back and fit the peg up that the pieces will fit together more or less seamlessly, and the outer surface will look shiny and untouched (apart from the crack). My money at the moment is on bad casting.

Is there any way of finding out if it is OEM? If it is OEM, I'll want to have a word with Triumph about this.


I'd certainly be wanting to look closely at your other peg too, just as a precautionary measure.

I'll be taking the whole bike to a dealer this week and asking them to look it over with a fine-tooth comb.

Thank you to everyone for your good wishes.

[El Dopa]

Does anyone know a place I can take this to in Auckland to get a definitive answer on whether this was a weld repair or a bad casting?

[Blackbird]

Question: Is it possible to weld something like that and not leave a big welding seam, or any other trace (welding rod material)? I'm pretty sure I would have spotted a seam when I looked the bike over. I'm also pretty sure when I get the bike back and fit the peg up that the pieces will fit together more or less seamlessly, and the outer surface will look shiny and untouched (apart from the crack). My money at the moment is on bad casting.

Is there any way of finding out if it is OEM? If it is OEM, I'll want to have a word with Triumph about this.

I'll be taking the whole bike to a dealer this week and asking them to look it over with a fine-tooth comb.


It is possible to do a good weld repair which is visually close to perfect from the outside (ignoring those pits for the moment), but you'll always see a difference in the internal structure. Although I'm semi-retired, I was maintenance engineering manager many moons ago at a pulp and paper mill which included non-destructive testing. If you feel you need to get a proper analysis done, I'm sure that I can still pull some strings. Chew your options over and PM me if you'd like to follow up the offer.

Cheers,

Geoff

[McDuck]

Dat aint right. wot evr it is/

[sweetp]

Its been welded all right...then most of the weld ground off and polished. There are file marks in the fillet area (where the porosity is) The weld area wasnt prepared by "V"-ing it out, to get the penetration right thru to the middle, but has had little or no preperation ..... the shiny 1mm-or-so would be the sum total of the weld penetration. Cant give you any clues to the original cause of failure though I'm afraid.

[jrandom]

That's shocking!

Very glad to hear that the break didn't cause a bin.

In your position, I'd certainly want to follow this up as a matter of principle.

[Mikkel]

Crikey mate, good thing you still have your foot! :eek:

However, reading this I get a feeling that the term OEM is being used outside its definition (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/oem).


Another thing - what is the probability that one die cast rearset out of perhaps 200,000 is born with a structural defect? I mean, quality control is a statistical process and now and again a sub-standard part will pass through control and go onto the market.

My point of course being that the part might not have been patched up - but had the flaw from the get-go, and eventually the flaw will result in failure.

[El Dopa]

It is possible to do a good weld repair which is visually close to perfect from the outside (ignoring those pits for the moment), but you'll always see a difference in the internal structure. Although I'm semi-retired, I was maintenance engineering manager many moons ago at a pulp and paper mill which included non-destructive testing. If you feel you need to get a proper analysis done, I'm sure that I can still pull some strings. Chew your options over and PM me if you'd like to follow up the offer.

Cheers,

Geoff

Geoff, thanks for your offers of help. I appreciate it a lot. I am going to chew things over for a day or two before making a decision.


Its been welded all right...then most of the weld ground off and polished.

However, a fistful of painkillers, a couple of beers and a nights sleep has rebooted the brain a little.

Yes, it's pretty clear now that it was snapped off, then very, very badly welded, then polished. The polish marks on the backside of the peg stand out like the balls on a bulldog ('course, I couldn't see them from the front when I was checking out the bike.....).

The bike was sold new from a dealer, then traded back to the dealer (who traded it on). The dealer has now seen fit to tell me that they think the bike was in a low speed drop. This is despite me specifically phoning them before I put my money down to get an idea of the bikes condition, etc.

I didn't specifically ask: 'has it been dropped?'. So you live and learn.

Sounds like the original owner dropped it, broke at least the peg, did a crappy repair, then traded it in. Being charitable, the dealer and the subsequent owner probably didn't notice the repair. I'm assuming it's the sort of thing you'd notice if you were really sharp-eyed or if you were looking for it.

I'll be getting the bike checked out by a Triumph dealer. When I know what that assessment is, I'll make a decision.

One more thing to add to the the pre-ride/pre-purchase checklist.

[McDuck]

One more thing to add to the the pre-ride/pre-purchase checklist.

Bit of a pisser that you have to.

[sinfull]

MMmmm being the owner of two triples now, both of which were insurance jobs after being dropped to the left, i think a close look is in order !!!
Sorry to hear ya foot copped a blow, pleased to hear ya stayed upright and lived to post it !

[El Dopa]

Bit of a pisser that you have to.

If a person buys a new car, they have a reasonable chance of survival even if it's a lemon - it's a 'cage'. A bike on the other hand.....?

The 'beware' part of 'buyer beware' has never seemed more apt.

[Chrislost]

Pics attached.

those boots saved your foots ass:eek5:

[bert_is_evil]

jebus! glad you're ok!

[El Dopa]

those boots saved your foots ass:eek5:

Real men get the top of their boot down......or maybe not.

[Nade]

Im sorry to say but I have seen this exact same thing in poor repair jobs done on aluminium. As mentioned earlier there is definite porosity in the weld as can be seen...the little round holes. There is no penetration and any weld deposited has been ground off and polished to make it look 'original'. I have about 12 years experience in engineering with my welding cert (4711) in 3 positions....and many many hours of tig and mig welding aluminum in the transport industry. That repair to me looks like someone either didn't know what they were doing, or didn't care. For a clean full penetration weld in cast aluminium it is nearly imposible to match the welding rod to the parent material as castings arn't all the same...in the sence that all manurfacturers use different compositions. Although it would be possible to sucessfully weld that and make it strong.....as in most repairs it would never be 'as good as original'. I have welded manifolds, decks, storage boxes etc all subjected to the rigours of hours on the road on Trucks, that have been damaged and its taken hours to patch and file and reweld and file and reweld just to ensure there is no porosity, there is full penetration and it looks cosmetically good. Once aluminum has cracked it is better to replace the part if it is a 'life specific part'....in other words...if it fails....will you live to tell about it?
I can't remember the amount of times I have had vehicals come back after a few months only to have the same components or area's rewelded or replaced do to stress and many many hours of vibration on the road. Its just the nature of aluminium...take the aircraft industry for instance....the non destructive testing done on aircraft parts etc. is huge. The smallest cracks are documented and parts replaced if 'life specific'...just the way it is.

[Okey Dokey]

Wow, that could have been so bad for you. Glad you managed to only bruise your foot. Good luck sorting out a new peg.