Appealing demerits

[Morcs]

A few months back I got pulled over on the ATNR for overtaking on double yellows or summat. I was already over my demerits at that point, and was waiting for the knock at the door to take the license.

So of course Mr Plod discovers this and takes my license. He also wrote out $1000 and 85 demerits worth of tickets.

Now apparently, when I get my license back, I will have 85 demerits back on my license, and will have to go a whole 2 years without getting a single ticket - which is impossible, especially if you get a cunt who pings ya for 112 on the motorway or something.

So wondering If I can appeal the points - they shouldve been added to my license before It was taken:

The offense took place before the notice was issued.
The tickets were written before the notice was issued.

How Is one meant to reform there ways when the system keeps fucking them in the arse?

Do I have grounds for an appeal?

cheers,

Pete

[90s]

I got pulled over on the ATNR for overtaking on double yellows or summat ...

will have to go a whole 2 years without getting a single ticket - which is impossible ... How Is one meant to reform there ways when the system keeps fucking them in the arse?

If you reformed, surely you wouldn't think not getting a ticket to be impossible?

In biker politics and the law you might find someone who can help you with the legal appeal stuff, but the solution seems pretty obvious from over here ...

[jrandom]

How Is one meant to reform there ways when the system keeps fucking them in the arse?

I'm on 90 points, so I'm just keepin' my head down at the moment. 35 of them roll off in August. I'll celebrate the end of a tense year when they do.

I still seem to manage to have a bit of fun on the bike, though. Time and place, etc.

The ATNR's a bad place to play, really.

In fact, that chap in the car who got quite upset with my overtaking on last Thursday's ride may also have been exercised over the brief flick of my high beam in his mirrors as I checked his rear parcel shelf for disco lights before pulling out.

Whatcha gonna do, eh?


Do I have grounds for an appeal?

I'd telephone LTNZ if I were you, and ask for a precise description of the rules relating to exceeding 100 points on your licence, the three-month suspension, and the handling of further demerit points incurred between the point at which you receive an infringement notice that causes you to exceed 100 points and the point at which you surrender your licence.

I have no doubt that there will be fairly well-defined rules. Obviously, from what you've been told, those rules mean that once you've gone over 100 points, the points for subsequent infringements between then and when you lose your licence are not removed when you get your licence back.

Sadly, I doubt that you'll be able to convince anyone that those rules should be suspended in your case just because riding on 85 points for two years will be a pain in the arse.

:no:

Your only recourse will be to look at the infringements you were hit with that time, and figure out whether any of them can reasonably be appealed in and of themselves. Write a persuasive enough letter and you might be able to sweet-talk The Man into easing your two-year burden down to something lower than 85 points.

[sinned]

I thought that once your licence was taken the demerits went back to zero?

[Morcs]

I thought that once your licence was taken the demerits went back to zero?

yes they do, but if the cop is a cunt and decides to give you a ticket after he takes your license, then said newly accrued points dont get reset.

[Mikkel]

I thought that once your licence was taken the demerits went back to zero?

I would expect them to subtract 100 demerits.

It you were already on 90 points and were caught doing a 50 point offense I'd expect you to start out with 40 points on your license 3 months later...

At least you wouldn't have to worry about those 40 points for the first 3 months :devil2:

[jrandom]

I would expect them to subtract 100 demerits.

It you were already on 90 points and were caught doing a 50 point offense I'd expect you to start out with 40 points on your license 3 months later...

Actually, no. All the points on your licence at the time it's suspended are wiped.

Morcs got his tickets after having his licence suspended.

You'd think that that wouldn't be possible without being charged with 'driving while disqualified' as well, wouldn't you?

Morcs, call LTNZ and find out what the story is, eh?

[Finn]

I was on 0 demerits for 10 years, then got caught doing 107 on the motorway in a Transit letsfuckaroundwiththetraffic 80k area last month. I was going to fight it but thought fuck it, I've now got the Harley so from now on I'm bound to slow down. But to my surprise, I got pinged again on Sat. The infringement said "Looking too fucken cool" 50 demerits. Bastards.

[Mikkel]

Actually, no. All the points on your licence at the time it's suspended are wiped.

Morcs got his tickets after having his licence suspended.

You'd think that that wouldn't be possible without being charged with 'driving while disqualified' as well, wouldn't you?

Morcs, call LTNZ and find out what the story is, eh?

I be damned. If I get enough demerits to risk exceeding the 100 point limit I'll be sure to sit in the 135-140 km/h bracket. Better make the most of those demerit points eh? :crazy:

Well, just another bureaucratic system that doesn't make sense...

[Tank]

So of course Mr Plod discovers this and takes my license. He also wrote out $1000 and 85 demerits worth of tickets.

Now apparently, when I get my license back, I will have 85 demerits back on my license, and will have to go a whole 2 years without getting a single ticket - which is impossible, especially if you get a cunt who pings ya for 112 on the motorway or something.


From memory - yup - you are stuck with the 85 points.

Funnily enough it is quite possible to go 2 years without getting a ticket. Actually its really easy.

Looking at your sig, and the fact that you got $1k in fines and another 85 points - Im thinking that you are not getting pinged for doing 112 on the motorway or the like

So - you know the rules, you choose to break them, take it on the chin - tough shit.

As an aside - wasn't it you doing the extremely wobbly wheelie last Wednesday in Albany right by the Wednesday night learners night? Again - doing shit like that - you get caught you got to be willing to take public transport.

As for been 'fucked in the ass' by the system (your words) - what do you expect - you get over 100 points - do you really think you should be able to ride with reckless abandon free of any possibility of demerits just because you are waiting for someone to collect your licence from you?

[jrandom]

The infringement said "Looking too fucken cool" 50 demerits. Bastards.

'kin oath, man, if you're not careful, Big Dave is gonna start chasing royalty payments for your blatantly unlicenced use of total awesomeness.

[Coldrider]

You can't get a ticket for a whole two years, your riding style does not permit that?

[scumdog]

Funnily enough it is quite possible to go 2 years without getting a ticket. Actually its really easy.

As for been 'fucked in the ass' by the system (your words) - what do you expect - you get over 100 points - do you really think you should be able to ride with reckless abandon free of any possibility of demerits just because you are waiting for someone to collect your licence from you?


And even longer than two years - I've got minus 1,000 points, I could sell some to you.:pinch:

But yeah, it's not like the writing wasn't starting to appear on the wall was it??

[TLMAN]

I got pinged again on Sat. The infringement said "Looking too fucken cool" 50 demerits. Bastards.


Who stopped you?

Trinny and Suzannah!!!

[madandy]

Your sig suggests this is a normal state fo being for you, Pete.
Either hop off the TL thou for two years, seriously adjust your riding or learn to enjoy the long arm of the law rogering you in the ass.

[oscarnz]

A few months back I got pulled over on the ATNR for overtaking on double yellows or summat. I was already over my demerits at that point, and was waiting for the knock at the door to take the license.

So of course Mr Plod discovers this and takes my license. He also wrote out $1000 and 85 demerits worth of tickets.

Now apparently, when I get my license back, I will have 85 demerits back on my license, and will have to go a whole 2 years without getting a single ticket - which is impossible, especially if you get a cunt who pings ya for 112 on the motorway or something.

So wondering If I can appeal the points - they shouldve been added to my license before It was taken:

The offense took place before the notice was issued.
The tickets were written before the notice was issued.

How Is one meant to reform there ways when the system keeps fucking them in the arse?

Do I have grounds for an appeal?

cheers,

Pete

PM sent, let me know if I can help

[McDuck]

I can do almost 2 years without a ticket. As in 1 year 11 months and 2 weeks. Gutted.

[Mully]

A few months back I got pulled over on the ATNR for overtaking on double yellows or summat.
He also wrote out $1000 and 85 demerits worth of tickets.


So, probably a bit more than overtaking on double yellows......

T'any rate, I'd argue the point. You had (physically had) a licence at the time the offences were, umm, offended.

But how can he give you demerits if you (technically) don't have a licence at the time for demerits to be tagged onto???

I guess the cop was just having a bad day. Sounds plausible enough to be possible I guess.

[McDuck]

Did you get done for no licence at the time? While you may end up with more worth the risk arguing that because you didnt get pinged for no licence (or drivin while disqualified) then the tickets were issues on the licence you had then.

[scumdog]

But how can he give you demerits if you (technically) don't have a licence at the time for demerits to be tagged onto???

I guess the cop was just having a bad day. Sounds plausible enough to be possible I guess.

You can keep getting demrits as long as you keep offending - even if over 100 demerits, that's why you hear of people with 245 demerits.

Until their licence gets plucked they can still ride/drive - and get demerits.

Once it's been plucked from their sweaty little hand it's a different story...

[Ixion]

It is not an offence to keep driving, until a law officer or officer of the court takes your licence card.

The 3 month suspension (I think it'[s a suspension not a disqualification) purges all points. The question is , when is the cutoff for that purge? The date the licence is collected? Or the date that the total originally went past 100 points ?

It's an interesting question.

[vifferman]

I kinda know how you feel, pete, as I'm currently sitting on 70 points, and feel rather paranoid whenever I go out on the road. However, it IS possible to not get tickets. I rode/drove for tthirty years without even so much as a parking ticket. Some of that was more good luck than good managment, but it is possible.

I still think that there is far too much of a focus on enforcing speed limits than on safety. If the Gummint put more effort into the enforcing other road rules and on the other two prongs of the "Enforcement, Education, Engineering" mantra, maybe travelling on the roads would be less irritating.

[jim.cox]

You can keep getting demrits as long as you keep offending - even if over 100 demerits, that's why you hear of people with 245 demerits.



I may very well be mistaken but...

From a bried perusal of the legislation

It would appear that demerit points dont actually disappear after time

They are only ACTIVE and count towards suspension for a couple of years

But they hang around ad infinitum

Perhaps the gentlemen of ecilops might care to confirm?

[Ixion]

I went for over forty years without a speeding ticket (couple of no WoF ones way back, like 40 years ago. Actually before they had TONs , everything was done by summons).

Then got pinged two years running. Infuriatingly , both times in a cage, both times for trivial overages (115 in a 100 and 69 in a 50). And both times I'd left hector behind , cos I was "only going down the road". Infuriating, because I am actually more of a nan in a car than on a bike - it just doesn't offer the opportunity so to speak. Dunno if I'm less vigilant in a cage than on a bike , or what.

[Disco Dan]

my last lot of tickets from about 3 track days ago is still being paid off slowly.. . waiting for my first lot of points to expire before paying off the tickets.. that way i keep my license :devil2:

[scumdog]

my last lot of tickets from about 3 track days ago is still being paid off slowly.. . waiting for my first lot of points to expire before paying off the tickets.. that way i keep my license :devil2:

Uh, you may need to check up on your theory..

(After all how can a spotty oik with 175 demerits get them without having paid off a single ticket??)

[Gremlin]

What "should" happen is that all fines are paid for prior to license removal, and they should all be included in the disqualification, ergo, clean license when you get it back.

However, there is a delay between them being properly recorded on your history, and when LTNZ serves letter. If they pull the details before the points/fines are loaded onto your profile, its foreseeable that they won't be included. Technically they should I think.

Best you speak to someone in LTNZ, as thats the only way to resolve it. As you probably know, the courts do not suspend your license, the LTNZ do.

[KiwiRat]

This is a common lunchtime discussion at work. All correct answers are available from the person who answers when you dial this number0800 822 422

[Tank]

This is a common lunchtime discussion at work. All correct answers are available from the person who answers when you dial this number0800 822 422

you are new here so I will let you off.

But please remember in future - KB is all about wild ass uninformed answers by bush lawyers. Please don't go posting helpful or accurate advise again.

[Tank]

This is a common lunchtime discussion at work. All correct answers are available from the person who answers when you dial this number0800 822 422

Just to check KiwiRats mad Idea - I called them for you.

Long answer short - yup - you got another 85 demerit points for the next 2 years.

[Forest]

The thread title is misleading.

There is nothing appealing about demerit points!

[90s]

The thread title is misleading.

There is nothing appealing about demerit points!

Oh, boom boom.:blank:

[Morcs]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

70% of my fines have come from wrong license - ie. riding bigger than 250, after 10pm, and with pillions.

I have only had 2 big speeding tickets in my life (105 in a 50, 172 in a 100)

The other helping hands were a couple of 62's in 50s at 6am (pedantic bastards) and the overtaking in double yellows. Oh and the time when a cop did me for riding a 400 whilst a the ambo guys were still scraping me off the harbour bridge.

By reforming, I mean, will be sitting my full as soon as my suspension finishes - so if i do get any more of these measly tickets, I dont get stung $400 after $400.

But thats where the system shafts me, all it takes is 120 on the motorway (anything under 120 and my wrists feel like snapping).

I have recently aquired a radar for extra protection, and am purchasing a 400 this month to keep the thou in the garage a bit more (sit in traffic all week, natural reaction on a bit of clear road is neeeeeeeeeeowwwww...

As long as I stay at this level of cop paranoia for 2 years ill be sweet. Its not very enjoyable though.

Why cant they just let us ride our bikes. How do they expect us to stay below the speed limit when bikes capable of 0-100 in 3 seconds, and top speeds in excess of 250 are available so cheaply?

[onearmedbandit]

Could I trade in some of my rep points against my demerits? I'll do a 2 for 1 deal.

[jrandom]

How do they expect us to stay below the speed limit...

They don't, really. Time and place, time and place.

When was the last time anyone got pinged for speeding between, say, Kihikihi and Whakamaru?

[Tank]

But thats where the system shafts me, all it takes is 120 on the motorway (anything under 120 and my wrists feel like snapping).



I know that its obviously lost on you - but the system is not shafting you.

Not in the slightest, not even a little teenie, weenie bit.

You decide to ride outside the terms of your licence - that's your call. You choose to break the speed limit or wheelie - again that's your call.

Lots of people do it, (me included - well, speeding in the car anyway), and that's our call.

But when we get caught - its not the system that's shafting us.

A little personal accountability goes a long way.

A and for the comment "How do they expect us to stay below the speed limit when bikes capable of 0-100 in 3 seconds, and top speeds in excess of 250 are available so cheaply? "

Well - they expect you to ride like a grown up - It beats the alternative which is legislating against ya.

[Hailwood]

This thread must be a pisstake....surely!!!!! Otherwise what a dropkick!!!!!! its not fair the cops are hassling me oh wahwahwahwah!! Looking at the speeds of the "big" tickets and the comments about the top speed of the bike is a giveaway as is the bragging about the fines and days suspended etc..

Only my opinion but it seems this is all about choice..you choose to ride like you do, you choose the consequences..no system against you, no police out to get you...your choice.

And before all the flak starts about being a harley rider (slow bike etc) I certainly have had my share of tickets earlier...my stupidity for doing it then....

If people dont realise that the current emphasis on speeding is not going away and they continue to ride like the road is their own race track, well then stop whinging and bleating when you get caught....of course a bike doing 70 in a 50 area is going to attract attention, overtaking on yellow lines and wheelies will do the same.....

Anyway my 2c worth and my rant over...at least katman hasnt seen this thread yet..pfft

[Swoop]

It would appear that demerit points dont actually disappear after time

They are only ACTIVE and count towards suspension for a couple of years

But they hang around ad infinitum
That theory sounds quite plausible to me. More "data" for the plod computer.

The thread title is misleading.

There is nothing appealing about demerit points!
Quite true.
A licence with "Demerit's = 0" is a nice feeling.

[The Pastor]

A few months back I got pulled over on the ATNR for overtaking on double yellows or summat. I was already over my demerits at that point, and was waiting for the knock at the door to take the license.

So of course Mr Plod discovers this and takes my license. He also wrote out $1000 and 85 demerits worth of tickets.

Now apparently, when I get my license back, I will have 85 demerits back on my license, and will have to go a whole 2 years without getting a single ticket - which is impossible, especially if you get a cunt who pings ya for 112 on the motorway or something.

So wondering If I can appeal the points - they shouldve been added to my license before It was taken:

The offense took place before the notice was issued.
The tickets were written before the notice was issued.

How Is one meant to reform there ways when the system keeps fucking them in the arse?

Do I have grounds for an appeal?

cheers,

Pete
shaaaaaaaame

[BIGBOSSMAN]

When was the last time anyone got pinged for speeding between, say, Kihikihi and Whakamaru?

"Calling all cops, calling all cops - I have a new revenue collecting area ripe for the plucking..."

[Trouser]

Did you know that you can overtake on double yellow lines if you stay completely within your lane? Quite easy for motorbikes to do.

Did you stay completely within your lane?

[Clivoris]

But thats where the system shafts me,

Reminds me of a joke where the punchline is a Grizzly bear saying to the hunter "You don't really come here for the hunting do you?"

[Jantar]

They don't, really. Time and place, time and place.

When was the last time anyone got pinged for speeding between, say, Kihikihi and Whakamaru?
1986 for me just before Wharepapa South. Then no more speeding fines until 2005 near Murchison.

[Ixion]

They don't, really. Time and place, time and place.

When was the last time anyone got pinged for speeding between, say, Kihikihi and Whakamaru?

Is that sealed down there now?

[90s]

Why cant they just let us ride our bikes. How do they expect us to stay below the speed limit when bikes capable of 0-100 in 3 seconds, and top speeds in excess of 250 are available so cheaply?

The government will miss you as a revenue stream when you are gone Morcs.

Why don't you shaft them and plan on staying alive eh?

[Madness]

This 85 points the friendly nice police officer gave you on the day.

I understood that when you are gifted multiple juicy ticket suprises at a single time, only the offence with the highest points has those points recorded.

You might only have 50!! :sunny:

[KiwiRat]

you are new here so I will let you off.

But please remember in future - KB is all about wild ass uninformed answers by bush lawyers. Please don't go posting helpful or accurate advise again.

Point taken. Slinks away with tail between legs.

[Morcs]

"Calling all cops, calling all cops - I have a new revenue collecting area ripe for the plucking..."

damn I was just about to head out for a hoon...


This 85 points the friendly nice police officer gave you on the day.



I understood that when you are gifted multiple juicy ticket suprises at a single time, only the offence with the highest points has those points recorded.



You might only have 50!!
Ah, but he wrote all 3 offenses on separate tickets.

[Swoop]

Ah, but he wrote all 3 offenses on separate tickets.
Report him to the green party. They will have him up for wasting resources and creating unnecessary waste.

I wonder if that helps his quota? (Oops, "there is no quota"...)

[marty]

damn I was just about to head out for a hoon...


Ah, but he wrote all 3 offenses on separate tickets.

that is the funniest thing i have read for ages! you must have been REALLY co-operative.

[jrandom]

Is that sealed down there now?

It sure is.

:love:

[Ixion]

Bugger ! They've struck again. The bastards!

When did that happen.

It's a sad state of affairs, you ride a nice bit of road, think, 'Must come back here some time soon' and as soon as y' back's turned the bastards rush in and seal it.

[jrandom]

"Calling all cops, calling all cops - I have a new revenue collecting area ripe for the plucking..."

Nonsense.

The Highway Patrol have the same maps as we do; I'm quite sure that they allocate their limited resources in full knowledge of what roads are out there.

Every hour of vehicle patrol time, I suspect, must be accounted for to someone, and I imagine that there'd be hell to pay if those expensive breathed-upon pursuit wagons were seen to be burning gas for no reason cruising around the deserted back-of-beyond twisties.

I'm also quite sure that the vast majority of police officers on traffic duty would privately admit that they don't give a flying fuck about motorcyclists riding safely at speeds of their own choosing on well-surfaced, deserted back roads that are not part of the main highway network.

Time and place, gentlemen, time and place.

[jrandom]

... as soon as y' back's turned the bastards rush in and seal it.

... and a whole new generation of motorcyclists start getting their jollies with their knee down leaving black stripes out of the same corners you used to rooster-tail your way through with boots dragging furrows in the loose metal.

Time and Progress march on, old bean. Nowt to do but go with the flow.

[marty]

it's not a highway down there, so highway patrol won't go there.


STU on the pther hand.....

[jrandom]

STU on the pther hand.....

Sneaky motherfuckers.

[Ixion]

I think one would have to be very unfortunate to meet a plod on such roads. Assuming that local reidents do not become annoyed at MotoGP events on their local roads , and complain to TPTB.

The danger of Officer Bumblebee also choosing that little used road to get from wherever to wherever else can never be totally discounted.

But then, neither can the risk of being hit by a stray meteorite. Some risks must be accepted as part of life.

[Jacko2]

Pete,
Just a thought but do ya need a license for track days? Lot cheaper.

[Swoop]

Pete,
Just a thought but do ya need a license for track days? Lot cheaper.
You might need a licence to get to a trackday though...

[90s]

But then, neither can the risk of being hit by a stray meteorite. Some risks must be accepted as part of life.

That's why I wear a helmet on my bike, duh.

[Morcs]

Pete,
Just a thought but do ya need a license for track days? Lot cheaper.

Only cheaper if you do them once in a blue moon.
Do them regularly and tyre costs mainly, and all other consumables and service work goes through the roof...

I used my uk learners license to race at the drags...