2500 bucks to rebuild the engine

[partireper.it]

Went yesterday to visit KG Motorcycles in 139 Wordsworth St, Christchurch.

He saw the bike. Asked me about the km ridden.

"110000 km so far" i said.

He's gonna be able to give me a quotation in a week, but he said it's not gonna be less than 2500 NZD!!!

:crybaby::crybaby:

Any advice?

[FilthyLuka]

fork out the cash if you can't do the work yourself. I assume it would be pistons/rings, valve seals, crank bearings, clutch plates/steels, cams if they are worn, valves if they are worn, valve springs if they are worn (need a set of verniers and the engine apart to check)

Would probably also include a carb rebuild, tune and balance.

[partireper.it]

i definetly don't know how to do all that!

but cluth is new!

carb new as well!

maybe i can save something!

[fireball]

non PC advice.....
if it is still running sell it to a sucker and buy a new bike



PC advice

errr fork up the 2500 you could have used to buy a new bike....

[partireper.it]

non PC advice.....
if it is still running sell it to a sucker and buy a new bike



PC advice

errr fork up the 2500 you could have used to buy a new bike....

ahahahha :rolleyes:

would you really sell the bike is taking you around the world for 3 years?

[fireball]

ahahahha :rolleyes:

would you really sell the bike is taking you around the world for 3 years?

if it is a sure thing that it will shit itself completely, yeah i would take the gamble on a new bike that had low Ks and good history all the paperwork etc etc

but if its worth fixing, fix it

[partireper.it]

if it is a sure thing that it will shit itself completely, yeah i would take the gamble on a new bike that had low Ks and good history all the paperwork etc etc

but if its worth fixing, fix it

unfortunately it is very worth fixing it!

I mat send some letters to honda and see if i can get some help from them!

are they stingy here in NZ or they are pretty open to customer's tours?

[FilthyLuka]

ahahahha :rolleyes:

would you really sell the bike is taking you around the world for 3 years?

Nope, i would drain the tank, drain the sump, drain the coolant, spray protective shit everywhere and hang it in the living room.

Then use the $2500 as a deposit on something new

[partireper.it]

Nope, i would drain the tank, drain the sump, drain the coolant, spray protective shit everywhere and hang it in the living room.

Then use the $2500 as a deposit on something new

ahahahahaha:girlfight:

how about using it as a key holder for the new bike i would buy!?

[surfer]

Find out exactly what is wrong with it from the mechanic. Then get a manual and some help and do it yourself.

It might take for ages to sort out but at the end of it you would have saved some money and learnt a lot of new things. All of which will save you bucks in the future.

Before you get going price up the parts you need plus tools and work out the total bill. Also find the support you need in terms of others that live nearby that can help out when required.

Good luck with it all.

[trumpy]

$2500 is probably quite reasonable given that it cost me about $3000 to rebuild my Husaberg chook chaser four years ago.

[partireper.it]

Find out exactly what is wrong with it from the mechanic. Then get a manual and some help and do it yourself.

It might take for ages to sort out but at the end of it you would have saved some money and learnt a lot of new things. All of which will save you bucks in the future.

Before you get going price up the parts you need plus tools and work out the total bill. Also find the support you need in terms of others that live nearby that can help out when required.

Good luck with it all.

that'd be actually the idea, but i don't know how much i wanna disturb other people to help me.

but im trying to involve honda to see if i can assist the operation and learn something done for free!

otherwise, before i pay, i'll try to work out few things with the mechanic!

thanks by the way. this forum is a bikewise source of data!

ill credit the link on my webpage!

[partireper.it]

$2500 is probably quite reasonable given that it cost me about $3000 to rebuild my Husaberg chook chaser four years ago.

my bike is a 600cc

how big was the engine of yours?

[FilthyLuka]

my bike is a 600cc

how big was the engine of yours?

If it was a husaberg, probably about 600cc with one cylinder.

If you are keen to give it a shot, find out from the mech what is wrong with it like thingiemastuff said. As for pestering people, most people on here will willingly offer help :)

[Bonez]

What exactly is wrong with the engine?

[partireper.it]

If it was a husaberg, probably about 600cc with one cylinder.

If you are keen to give it a shot, find out from the mech what is wrong with it like thingiemastuff said. As for pestering people, most people on here will willingly offer help :)

many riders from europe had a remote check during one of the mehanical movie i've posted on youtube.

we checked exhaust emission

noise

consumption of fuel

most of them, which know honda transalp 1987, told me to do a compression test in order to see if all depends on the valves (apparently gone old).

the problem is that, since september 2007, with a full tank of fuel, i can ride exactly half of the km i used to do years ago.

spark plugs and exhaust are dirty

too rich in fuel, but carbi and cluth are new....

so is the engine!!!

it's got 110000 Km on it and it's 21 years old!

[partireper.it]

As for pestering people, most people on here will willingly offer help :)

it's when i read this that i remember I am in new zealand and not in italy anymore.

riders and mechanics are the grumpiest of all, down there!

[Bonez]

When was the last time the spark plugs were replaced? Or had a decent tune up? Has the air filter been replaced?

[partireper.it]

When was the last time the spark plugs were replaced? Or had a decent tune up?


dicember 2007, in australia by Honda MPE

it was 9000 km ago!

[Bonez]

dicember 2007, in australia by Honda MPE

it was 9000 km ago!Whats the service interval?

[FilthyLuka]

Righteho then.

This new carb, was it tuned or just thrown onto the bike? If its jetted badly, it would explain why the bike is running rich and sooting everything up.

Do a compression test, see if everything is Otay, if it aint, pull the head off. Check valves, if it aint the valves, off goes the top end, check the rings. Yank of the piston, check for lateral movement in the conrod to see if the crank bearings are good.

Or, the easier option, let the mechanic do all that and just grab the list of him :2thumbsup

Then go and get parts and stuffs.

[partireper.it]

Whats the service interval?


what do you mean?

[partireper.it]

Righteho then.

This new carb, was it tuned or just thrown onto the bike? If its jetted badly, it would explain why the bike is running rich and sooting everything up.

Do a compression test, see if everything is Otay, if it aint, pull the head off. Check valves, if it aint the valves, off goes the top end, check the rings. Yank of the piston, check for lateral movement in the conrod to see if the crank bearings are good.

Or, the easier option, let the mechanic do all that and just grab the list of him :2thumbsup

Then go and get parts and stuffs.

carb was tuned.

same with jets on carb

valves were tuned in december by honda, but not changed. maybe they are old.

how much would cost me to do a compression test?

[Bonez]

what do you mean?
www.xrv.org.uk/media/ta_maintenance_schedule.pdf

[FilthyLuka]

what do you mean?

In the manual, how many Km's between services? I would suspect it would be something like 5000km's

[FilthyLuka]

carb was tuned.

same with jets on carb

valves were tuned in december by honda, but not changed. maybe they are old.

how much would cost me to do a compression test?

A pack of beer to one of the boys in christchurch to borrow thier tester. Wind it into the spark plug socket and turn the engine over.

[partireper.it]

In the manual, how many Km's between services? I would suspect it would be something like 5000km's

it's 15000 before 40000 km

it's 10 before 70000km

it's 5000 before 100000km

but my bike has got 110000km, so i had services in turkey

japan

thailand

malesia

australia

and new zealand....

but now i guess it's time to do some more work on it!

[partireper.it]

www.xrv.org.uk/media/ta_maintenance_schedule.pdf

thanks for that. i have the original honda mechanic manual with me where i an find them too!

[partireper.it]

A pack of beer to one of the boys in christchurch to borrow thier tester. Wind it into the spark plug socket and turn the engine over.

and im sure ill find the range of compression data in the manual, won't I?

[FilthyLuka]

and im sure ill find the range of compression data in the manual, won't I?

Yup :) Should do

[partireper.it]

Yup :) Should do

it says:

COMPRESSION= 1177 +- 98 Kpa (12.0 +- 1.0 kg/cm2, 171 +- 14 psi)

is this it?

[pete376403]

Unless there is a compelling reason (eg nasty loud noises) you shouldn't need to get into the crankshaft/gearbox/clutch area of the motor.
The problems you are describing indicate lack of compression - new piston rings, and a good valve grind at best, rebored cylinders, new pistons AND rings and new valves at worst.
can you post the itemized estimate / quote for the engine repairs?

[partireper.it]

Unless there is a compelling reason (eg nasty loud noises) you shouldn't need to get into the crankshaft/gearbox/clutch area of the motor.
The problems you are describing indicate lack of compression - new piston rings, and a good valve grind at best, rebored cylinders, new pistons AND rings and new valves at worst.
can you post the itemized estimate / quote for the engine repairs?


sure can! as soon as mr Kevin of KG motorcycle issue his, ill do it.

i visited him yeasteday. he got frame and engine number so he can tell me that in a week!

[FilthyLuka]

it says:

COMPRESSION= 1177 +- 98 Kpa (12.0 +- 1.0 kg/cm2, 171 +- 14 psi)

is this it?

Yep, thats exactly what you want. Most compression guages will have one of those three units of measurement on em

[partireper.it]

Yep, thats exactly what you want. Most compression guages will have one of those three units of measurement on em

so let's say these units are not matched on the bike compression test....

will that tell me straight away that it's just a metter of certain parts instead of the whole engine to be rebuilt?

here some youtube test....

i apologize for the quality and for my italian!

from my forum (http://partireper.forumitalian.com/guasti-f30/australia-e-nuova-zelanda-aiuto-t178.htm)

[FilthyLuka]

so let's say these units are not matched on the bike compression test....

will that tell me straight away that it's just a metter of certain parts instead of the whole engine to be rebuilt?

here some youtube test....

i apologize for the quality and for my italian!

from my forum (http://partireper.forumitalian.com/guasti-f30/australia-e-nuova-zelanda-aiuto-t178.htm)

If the units are not matched by the compression tester, it will tell you that you have low compression, the cause of this could be a number of things. The only way to tell is to pull of the cylinder head (heads in your case if both have dodge compression) and have a squiz.

Italians eh? Fucking Italians (I'm Croatian :p and it is a pisstake)

[pete376403]

it says:

COMPRESSION= 1177 +- 98 Kpa (12.0 +- 1.0 kg/cm2, 171 +- 14 psi)

is this it?
Yes it is. the + - is the allowed tolerance. Both cylinders should be pretty much the same. The test should be done with the engine hot and the throttle held fully open
Once you test the compression and get readings, if they are down below the allowed lower limit, squirt a small (small as in about a teaspoonful) amount of oil into the spark plug holes and run the tests again. This will assist sealing the rings to the cylinder wall. If the compression pressure rises a lot, that would indicate the rings are failing. If the figure remains much the same, that would indicate it is the valves not sealing.

[Ixion]

That figure (171 psi) would be the "as new" figure. How much lower it can be before needing attention is up to each person. for m'self, I'd say 120psi was OK, 100psi getting toward time for attention and under 100psi time to put on the moth protection. But more meticulous riders might want bigger numbers.

A low compression figure shows that the top part of the engine is worn (or damaged but usually just worn). The cylinders, pistons, valves.

The bottom part, crankshaft, rods etc may be fine. But , if the engine has done enough miles to wear out the top part, it's reasonable to expect some degree of wear on the bottom part (two strokes are a special case).

If the Transalp ahs plain big ends (I don't know if it does) and there is somewhere you can screw in an oil pressure gauge , that would give a good idea of the condition of the bottom end. testing for movement in the big ends doesn't always tell the whole story (as many a BSA A65 owner has found to his sorrow).

About fuel consumption, do bear in mind that carburettors can wear out, just like anything else. And cleaning them or tuning them won't fix that. They'll just be nice clean tuned up worn out carbs.

[partireper.it]

If the units are not matched by the compression tester, it will tell you that you have low compression, the cause of this could be a number of things. The only way to tell is to pull of the cylinder head (heads in your case if both have dodge compression) and have a squiz.

Italians eh? Fucking Italians (I'm Croatian :p and it is a pisstake)

most of the time i was riding in croatia (http://www.partireper.it/eng_2005chapt3.htm) i was naked. There are so many nude beaches. But i loved it.

Italians should always be naked anyway!

:sick::sick::sick:

[partireper.it]

Yes it is. the + - is the allowed tolerance. Both cylinders should be pretty much the same. The test should be done with the engine hot and the throttle held fully open
Once you test the compression and get readings, if they are down below the allowed lower limit, squirt a small (small as in about a teaspoonful) amount of oil into the spark plug holes and run the tests again. This will assist sealing the rings to the cylinder wall. If the compression pressure rises a lot, that would indicate the rings are failing. If the figure remains much the same, that would indicate it is the valves not sealing.

now, that's a very handy and important trick to know. i guess ill be back here once i know the units and the compression datas. so you may tell me what you reckon it's wrong with the dinosaur (what honda australia used to call my bike)

thanks for that....

[partireper.it]

That figure (171 psi) would be the "as new" figure. How much lower it can be before needing attention is up to each person. for m'self, I'd say 120psi was OK, 100psi getting toward time for attention and under 100psi time to put on the moth protection. But more meticulous riders might want bigger numbers.

A low compression figure shows that the top part of the engine is worn (or damaged but usually just worn). The cylinders, pistons, valves.

The bottom part, crankshaft, rods etc may be fine. But , if the engine has done enough miles to wear out the top part, it's reasonable to expect some degree of wear on the bottom part (two strokes are a special case).

If the Transalp ahs plain big ends (I don't know if it does) and there is somewhere you can screw in an oil pressure gauge , that would give a good idea of the condition of the bottom end. testing for movement in the big ends doesn't always tell the whole story (as many a BSA A65 owner has found to his sorrow).

About fuel consumption, do bear in mind that carburettors can wear out, just like anything else. And cleaning them or tuning them won't fix that. They'll just be nice clean tuned up worn out carbs.

the more complicated it gets, the poorer i feel. which means i will probably pay someone else to do this for me. professionaly!

honda where are you?!?!

[surfer]

the more complicated it gets, the poorer i feel. which means i will probably pay someone else to do this for me. professionaly!

honda where are you?!?!

Seriously dude most of it is not complicated.

Make a list of things to do in the order that they should be done, you can check your list with comments from people on this site (of course be mindful that not all advice may be puka).

Then put some costs to the list.

Start with the easy to do stuff first.

Ask for help from people living nearby you if you get stuck or need some clarification on something and need to be shown.

Have an adventure and learn. You don't have to do everything but see how it goes before you decide it is too complicated.

Good luck

[partireper.it]

Seriously dude most of it is not complicated.

Make a list of things to do in the order that they should be done, you can check your list with comments from people on this site (of course be mindful that not all advice may be puka).

Then put some costs to the list.

Start with the easy to do stuff first.

Ask for help from people living nearby you if you get stuck or need some clarification on something and need to be shown.

Have an adventure and learn. You don't have to do everything but see how it goes before you decide it is too complicated.

Good luck

thank you so much. ill try. i promise!

[xwhatsit]

the more complicated it gets, the poorer i feel. which means i will probably pay someone else to do this for me. professionaly!

honda where are you?!?!

He's simply saying to do a compression test -- if it's at least 120psi, then it's probably OK. If it's below that, then you need to do some engine work, but probably just the top end (valves, piston, rings, cylinder etc). Which won't cost you anywhere near $2500.

[JimBob]

Who told you the engine needs a rebuild?
Why did they tell you this?
110,000km is nothing.
Is high fuel consumption the only problem you are aware of ?
Get a second opinion
You dont want to be rebuiding the engine to fix a carb problem.
Unless it uses oil as fast as you can put it in or makes great clanking and clunking sounds, assume the engine isnt knackered.
good luck

[partireper.it]

Who told you the engine needs a rebuild?
Why did they tell you this?
110,000km is nothing.
Is high fuel consumption the only problem you are aware of ?
Get a second opinion
You dont want to be rebuiding the engine to fix a carb problem.
Unless it uses oil as fast as you can put it in or makes great clanking and clunking sounds, assume the engine isnt knackered.
good luck

so, in a list of checking to do in order to sort all that out, what would you suggest me to do?

[xwhatsit]

so, in a list of checking to do in order to sort all that out, what would you suggest me to do?

First things first -- go and get a compression check.

Post up a thread asking if somebody in Christchurch will lend you a compression gauge. It's a 5 minute job.

Then post here what result you got.

[partireper.it]

First things first -- go and get a compression check.

Post up a thread asking if somebody in Christchurch will lend you a compression gauge. It's a 5 minute job.

Then post here what result you got.

what category would you post that in?

[Ixion]

Agreed. Costs nothing , takes only a few minutes and gives a lot of info.

[FilthyLuka]

what category would you post that in?

In this thread, or start a new thread in the Engine - Clutch - Transmission forum

[JimBob]

so, in a list of checking to do in order to sort all that out, what would you suggest me to do?

Before running off half cocked
First things first,
What problem are you trying to solve?

or in other words
Why do you need your engine rebuilt?

I recall mention of high fuel consumption, is that the only problem?
Aside from that does the bike still run OK?

[TimeOut]

Before running off half cocked
First things first,
What problem are you trying to solve?

or in other words
Why do you need your engine rebuilt?

I recall mention of high fuel consumption, is that the only problem?
Aside from that does the bike still run OK?

+ 1 for that, could just be a chocked air filter

[Squiggles]

If all else fails, im a fan of buying a low mile motor to replace an in need of rebuild one, usually costs less

[The Pastor]

If all else fails, im a fan of buying a low mile motor to replace an in need of rebuild one, usually costs less
true, but you never know excatly what you're buying

[partireper.it]

Before running off half cocked
First things first,
What problem are you trying to solve?

or in other words
Why do you need your engine rebuilt?

I recall mention of high fuel consumption, is that the only problem?
Aside from that does the bike still run OK?



ok, let's say that in september, in december and in february, i've tried to fix this fuel consuption problem by changing all you can think about

air filter

oil filter

engine oil

spark plug

carburator

new clutch

valve tuning

carbi tuning



still the problem is there

high fuel consumption. strange noises in the engine

black spark plugs

dirty exhaust tube

bike still runs ok. it gets flooded pretty easily though and smokes more, but you can't tell anything more by that.

i thought about the rebuilding because is the step to do, but i haven't done a compression test yet....

[JimBob]

Maybe you should get it to a competent mechanic (where do you find one of those? I dont know)
He will be able to tell you if the black plug and black exhaust are fuel or oil related.
If fuel related than more than likely there is something in the carburetion side of things that is the problem.
Dont assume that by buying a new carb you have eliminated carburetion problems.
If its oil related than yes you may be heading for some mechanical repairs.
Are the noises new? If they have been there since you have had the bike I wouldnt worry about it.
They didnt turn up after you fitted the new clutch or carby did they?
The mechanic should be able to give an indication of what the noises may be
Good luck

[partireper.it]

Maybe you should get it to a competent mechanic (where do you find one of those? I dont know)
He will be able to tell you if the black plug and black exhaust are fuel or oil related.
If fuel related than more than likely there is something in the carburetion side of things that is the problem.
Dont assume that by buying a new carb you have eliminated carburetion problems.
If its oil related than yes you may be heading for some mechanical repairs.
Are the noises new? If they have been there since you have had the bike I wouldnt worry about it.
They didnt turn up after you fitted the new clutch or carby did they?
The mechanic should be able to give an indication of what the noises may be
Good luck

in december, my bike (dinosaur as they called) has been fixed by Honda Australia MPE. They offered that service and genuine parts. But had no time to open the engine.

they did the rest, but the bike does what i wrote even now.

im looking now for a compression tester to post here the result!

[Peril]

For a (better) second opinion,take the bike to Dirt Action Services in Saxon St,see Phil there & he will tell you what you need to know,with no punches pulled.These guys deal with dirt & adventure bikes,like yours daily,so if I was to trust anyone with my $$,it'd be them.

[partireper.it]

For a (better) second opinion,take the bike to Dirt Action Services in Saxon St,see Phil there & he will tell you what you need to know,with no punches pulled.These guys deal with dirt & adventure bikes,like yours daily,so if I was to trust anyone with my $$,it'd be them.


ill do that for sure!
thanks so much!

[homer]

its possible it may need some valve work

[partireper.it]

its possible it may need some valve work


valves have been tuned 3 times since the problem happened...

may be they just got old!

[pete376403]

"Valves tuned" - if this work was done inside of an hour then I would guess you are referring to having the clearance between the valve stem and the cam / follower or rockers adjusted.
However the valve work I and others are referring to means that the interface between the valve head and valve seat is getting worn and no longer sealing correctly. This is repaired by removing the cylinder heads and depending on what is found, can be as little as lapping the valve into the seats, or as much as replacing the valves and recutting the seats. Usually at this time the seals that are on the valve guides to prevent oil being drawn down into the cylinder are replaced, valve springs are tested for correct free length and tension, then the heads are reassembled, refitted to the motor with new gaskets, and the valve clearances set. Probably a days work from start to finish depending n how much bodywork has to be removed and so on.
It's not deep motor surgery but not exactly trivial, either

[JimBob]

in december, my bike (dinosaur as they called) has been fixed by Honda Australia MPE. They offered that service and genuine parts. But had no time to open the engine.

they did the rest, but the bike does what i wrote even now.

im looking now for a compression tester to post here the result!

Did they give you any information regarding the condition of the engine?
Did they tell you what the noise was likely to be?

[partireper.it]

Did they give you any information regarding the condition of the engine?
Did they tell you what the noise was likely to be?

nah!

but i asked the same question in brisbane and the michanic said

oh mate, the engine sounds just beautifuuuuuuuuuuuul mate!

[partireper.it]

Before running off half cocked
First things first,
What problem are you trying to solve?

or in other words
Why do you need your engine rebuilt?

I recall mention of high fuel consumption, is that the only problem?
Aside from that does the bike still run OK?

the service national manager of blue wing honda called me this morning. im moving to auckland to get the bike fixed. they are happy to offer that.
i'll keep you updated, ok?!

thanks for the time you take in reading this and supporting me!

jono
www.partireper.it