Bike doesn't start, WHY?

[Foobin]

Hey guys

Ran into a weird problem, just out of the blue my bike no longer starts

Now when i turn key on, the usual lights etc still turn on, so i know the battery is still connected, but when i try to start it, it doesnt start. The starter motor kinda makes like a dying sound but doesnt start the bike. I can push start the bike (with help that is) but second i turn bike off, i cant start it again.

What could be the issue? is the battery dead and just needs a good charge or do i have bigger problems at hand?

btw, its a suzuki bandit 1990 GSF250

thanks for any help

[Henk]

I'd try charging the battery as a first shot. It sounds like it's either flat or dead to me and it's a cheap and easy way to confirm it. If the battery won't take a charge try using jumper cables.

[Foobin]

is the battery the same voltage as a car battery (12 volts)?

[vagrant]

Does the starter motor turn the engine over at all, even slowly?
Or does it just make a clunk and stop?

When the bike is running, does it run alright? Does the headlight brightness change with revs?

[JimO]

is the battery the same voltage as a car battery (12 volts)?

mine is........

[vagrant]

Here's a link to a service manual for your bike,

http://pdftown.com/PDF-Suzuki-GSX250F-Service-Manual.html

Use the upper of the two download buttons, the bottom one appears to be broken.
The scan is not the best, but it's free.

[Foobin]

Does the starter motor turn the engine over at all, even slowly?
Or does it just make a clunk and stop?

When the bike is running, does it run alright? Does the headlight brightness change with revs?

Initially the starter motor will start and make the sound it would normally do as if the bike is cold and needs the choke to be turned on. but then after 3 mins or so it just doesnt start and can hear like a tick sound somewhere like a switch is moving.

The bike runs fine when someone gives me a push start, and yes the headlight brightness does change, goes brighter when i rev it.

[MaxB]

Try charging the battery first (12v) and see if that makes a difference. If it is a normal lead-acid type check the fluid levels on each cell and top up with distilled water if required. If it is a maintenance free type forget that last bit.

[skidMark]

have it in neutral with headlight off. if when you push the start button the dash lights, ie for neutral dim down then you don't have nough grunt in ya battery.

If you do have enough grunt they will only dim slightly if you do not they will almost completely go out.

yes your bike is 12 volts. hook some jumper leads from a car battery to it and try that, do not start the car, its to much charge with car off is plenty.

if still not going then your starter motor is seized.

[FilthyLuka]

Here is an easy test.

Put bike in neutral, ignition on. Hold the starter button on and give the starter motor a decent thwack with a hammer, if it turns over once then stops, you have worn brushes. You can be sneaky and replace just the brushes, or be not so sneaky and replace the whole starter motor.

My money is on worn brushes not making contact

[DIN PELENDA]

Is alternator is not charging .You got litle charge when your rewup so your lite is brighter,so your batery is flat or 1/2 full but is not good to start up motor .is all conected, i have same problem.So take tu bike shop and get them to check alternator and charge your batery may be stil ok.

[idb]

Initially the starter motor will start and make the sound it would normally do as if the bike is cold and needs the choke to be turned on. but then after 3 mins or so it just doesnt start and can hear like a tick sound somewhere like a switch is moving.

The bike runs fine when someone gives me a push start, and yes the headlight brightness does change, goes brighter when i rev it.

You're running the battery down then before it starts.
I'd suggest that it isn't taking a charge and is stuffed.
Try jump starting it off a car battery.
If that works take your battery in to get checked.

[sinfull]

Initially the starter motor will start and make the sound it would normally do as if the bike is cold and needs the choke to be turned on. but then after 3 mins or so it just doesnt start and can hear like a tick sound somewhere like a switch is moving.

The bike runs fine when someone gives me a push start, and yes the headlight brightness does change, goes brighter when i rev it.

The tick sound generally means dead battery and wont have enough grunt to turn starter (solenoid click)
If the lights brighten up when ya rev up means charging system is ok !
Turning your starter over for 3 min will flatten any battery !! (means you have electric or fuel prob not a battery one !
Take battery leads off and clean contact surfaces, Also at starter end ! check that all leads are tight !
Charge ya battery up!
Or if ya aint got a charger jump start it and check that it does brighten up, If it does then Ride to nelson and back
Enjoy the ride !!!

[sinfull]

Do those things run a mag or generator ? If mag there could be a link between that and battery broken but still brightens up the lights when running ! simple test to check it if ya know anyone with a elec tester !

[Foobin]

wow. thanks for the number of replies guys. will try to charge the battery a bit with my car, hope that will fix the problem. if not i might just take it into the shop and let them do their work. unfortunately i dont really have much time during the day to do try and error with the problem !

[MaxB]

You can get a cheapo charger for $20 or a jump starter for 60. Or borrow one from a mate. Might save you some $$$ in the long run.

[CookMySock]

if the dash lights are NOT dimming when starting, and the battery checks out ok, and all you get is a tick sound, then it might be the contactor(the thing that is making the tick sound) on the starter. They can either be replaced or repaired - usually the little part that joins the two main contacts gets chewed away from arcing. If it's this chewed, you might want to do bearings and brushes too.

If the dash lights ARE dimming or going out when you hit the starter, then there is not enough juice from the battery for some reason, OR a battery or starter terminal is loose or otherwise faulty.


HTH,
DB

[Foobin]

if the dash lights are NOT dimming when starting, and the battery checks out ok, and all you get is a tick sound, then it might be the contactor(the thing that is making the tick sound) on the starter. They can either be replaced or repaired - usually the little part that joins the two main contacts gets chewed away from arcing. If it's this chewed, you might want to do bearings and brushes too.

If the dash lights ARE dimming or going out when you hit the starter, then there is not enough juice from the battery for some reason, OR a battery or starter terminal is loose or otherwise faulty.


HTH,
DB

Hi

Yes, the dash lights ARE dimming when i hit the starter. Unfortunately im unable to hook it up to my car batter yet cause i need to remove the metal thing on top of the battery to get the crocodile clips to fit in....

Maybe the battery is just flat? that should be an easy fix i hope.

[xwhatsit]

Probably just a shagged battery -- these problems seem to pop up once the weather starts getting colder. Cold weather is hard on the battery and your engine needs more grunt to start when it's pre-chilled. Often the engine will still turn over, but there's not enough juice to get a good fat spark as well as turn the engine over fast enough, especially sparking four plugs in one cycle.

Is there a kick starter? Turn all the lights off and just kick the bastard. If you've got a silly bike without one (bet it hasn't got a centre stand either?), bump start it. Then take it for a long ride, keeping the revs up.

[Foobin]

no unfortunately it doesnt have a kick start, which i might add will be really useful to have right now.

it does however has a center stand.....

bike doesnt start with lights off either.

i cant push start it myself, however with the help with someone else i can roll start it, but not easy to go up to someone and say "hey dude, u wana give me a push" in the middle of nowhere.

so whats the best way to fix the problem? new battery? charge the battery?

[Spuds1234]

What are you trying to do when you push start it?

Shouldnt be to hard to push start that thing.

Biff it into third or forth and push it down the road as fast as you can and dump the clutch.

My katana did this last winter. Wouldnt start when the bike was really cold. Turned out to be a fooked battery.

[Foobin]

im probably just too much of a weakling or im doing something wrong, but cant seem to push start it myself.

the battery is getting charged right now, hopefully it will fix the problem.

[HungusMaximist]

Most of the time is the battery and if you can rule the battery out, you're gonna save yourself a lot of grief. Imagine all this time you've been stuffing around and it turned out it was a bung battery.

Just remember, if the battery doesn't hold charge, you've got a problem.

Buy from a reputable brand (replacement brands recommended by the dealer are OK also) and if you decide to get a new battery, MAKE SURE the ACID isn't alreadly inside the battery when you buy it because you don't know how long it's been sitting there. Fresh batteries are dry to start with and has to be activated with acid everytime a customer buys one.

Have a look if you're battery requires a top up of distilled water, if it's a maintenace free one then don't worry.

[CookMySock]

recharge the battery overnight first, and then try starting with it. If it still dont go then its rooted. Just buy another one. They're cheap.

If it works perfectly after that, then goes flat a few days or a week later, then you have a charging problem - take it to the shop.

DB

[Foobin]

will do, got the battery on charge right now, will see how it does in the morning.

[skidMark]

ya have to get her rolling...in 2nd if you can...stand up on the pegs...at the moment you drop the clutch, jump down on the seat...to compress the suspension. this stops the back wheel skidding so it can actually turn over.... if you can get it rolling fast enough it shouldnt be hard to clunk 2nd gear.

[fireliv]

Hope its just the battery and it will start for ya. I had that problem in welly but it wasnt the battery, it was the carbs. WIth 4 hours to make a ferry I had to beg a bike shop to take a look.
Sounds like a battery so let us know how you go in the morning

[Foobin]

ya have to get her rolling...in 2nd if you can...stand up on the pegs...at the moment you drop the clutch, jump down on the seat...to compress the suspension. this stops the back wheel skidding so it can actually turn over.... if you can get it rolling fast enough it shouldnt be hard to clunk 2nd gear.

that sounds like a great feat of timing and coordination, i can see myself riding into a tree or concrete wall.

[Foobin]

Hope its just the battery and it will start for ya. I had that problem in welly but it wasnt the battery, it was the carbs. WIth 4 hours to make a ferry I had to beg a bike shop to take a look.
Sounds like a battery so let us know how you go in the morning

i hope its just the battery!!! or i might have to take it into the shop and let them deal with it, as im not much of a mechanic. Give me a computer to fix any day, but bikes......yea...you get the general idea.

[Foobin]

So just out of curiosity i tried to start my bike before battery charger says its fully charged, and the bike started instantly. Matter of fact it actually starts faster than it normally did.

Now the question is if the battery will die in 3 days time....or ill need a new alternator..:)

[sinfull]

Now the question is if the battery will die in 3 days time....or ill need a new alternator..:)

Nah if ya lights are coming up when ya rev it there aint nothin wrong with the charging ! Leave the battery on charge over night even if the charger says full and when ya put it back on make sure there aint no corrosion on the connections ! If battery dies in a few days its knackered and wont hold a charge ! Look into prices of batteries ! Some one here will point ya in the right direction for one for your bike, as sometimes originals are way over priced !

[Foobin]

yea i hope the alternator is still working

but i still don't get why the battery will drain itself all of a sudden

[sinfull]

Cold snap ! Battery sales go through the roof ! Would say yours is original mmmm nah prob not (have you had the bike long ?) batteries had a life span of SWA these days

[Foobin]

what does a "cold snap" do to drain the battery?

had the bike for about 6 months, its a 1990 bike so i wouldnt know if the battery has been changed for the last 18 years lol

[TimeOut]

what does a "cold snap" do to drain the battery?

had the bike for about 6 months, its a 1990 bike so i wouldnt know if the battery has been changed for the last 18 years lol

Cold won't drain the battery, they don't work as well in the cold.

My sons ZXR was having starting problems seemed to turn over fast enough just wouldn't fire.
Replaced the 12 year old battery (not bad ah!) Instant cure.

[MaxB]

what does a "cold snap" do to drain the battery?

had the bike for about 6 months, its a 1990 bike so i wouldnt know if the battery has been changed for the last 18 years lol

Batteries poroduce their power via a chemical reaction. Cold weather slows the reaction down and the battery does not work as well.

[CookMySock]

that sounds like a great feat of timing and coordination, i can see myself riding into a tree or concrete wall.heh, try doing it by yourself on a flat driveway on a big 650 vtwin.. :pinch:

They don't call it "crash starting" for no reason.. :pinch:

DB

[CookMySock]

but i still don't get why the battery will drain itself all of a suddenit wont really.. either it has a sort-circuit cell or something was left turned on, or the charging circuit is poked. Soon we will see.

If it starts so well now, ride it for a day but do not trust it at night coz a flat battery will mean no headlights. Nasty.

ASAP, ask the auto electrician to "slap the clamp meter on the battery cable and check the charging current please" with the engine running - rev it a wee bit. This is a simple 30 second check that you are unlikely to be charged for. Clamp meters are teh shiz for this sort of thing. Now you get your yes/no answer and you can take it to the bike shop and tell them what the situation is, and what you want done, ie, "its not charging, check it over", or "the battery is rooted how much to slap in a new one?"


DB

[Foobin]

heh, try doing it by yourself on a flat driveway on a big 650 vtwin.. :pinch:

They don't call it "crash starting" for no reason.. :pinch:

DB

If you can do it on a 650, then i must be doing something wrong !

[Foobin]

it wont really.. either it has a sort-circuit cell or something was left turned on, or the charging circuit is poked. Soon we will see.

If it starts so well now, ride it for a day but do not trust it at night coz a flat battery will mean no headlights. Nasty.

ASAP, ask the auto electrician to "slap the clamp meter on the battery cable and check the charging current please" with the engine running - rev it a wee bit. This is a simple 30 second check that you are unlikely to be charged for. Clamp meters are teh shiz for this sort of thing. Now you get your yes/no answer and you can take it to the bike shop and tell them what the situation is, and what you want done, ie, "its not charging, check it over", or "the battery is rooted how much to slap in a new one?"


DB

thats a rather good idea, so you think any car mechanic place will have the tools for that?

[xwhatsit]

flat battery will mean no headlights.

Not unless you've got an RG150 2-stroke style setup. Most modern bikes with alternators will still run quite happily with all the lights etc. After I discovered that I don't run a battery at all now.

[skidMark]

Cold won't drain the battery, they don't work as well in the cold.

My sons ZXR was having starting problems seemed to turn over fast enough just wouldn't fire.
Replaced the 12 year old battery (not bad ah!) Instant cure.


Yeah ZXR's do that.

They will wind over at a good enough speed all day, but will not start if there isn't enough juice, because all the grunt gets taken to run the starter, leaving nothing to make a spark, pretty much the only design flaw in a ZXR.

[CookMySock]

If you can do it on a 650, then i must be doing something wrong !re: crash starting - haha I didn't say I was successful! If I have a little hill I can crash or bump start it easily, but on the flat not by myself..

Try it for yourself - It's easy with a warm motor. Kill the engine. Start at the top of an incline - you only need enough to get jogging speed - don't do it any faster or you might lock a tyre and arse off. Try it on a dry road. Ignition on, crack throttle, kill off, select second gear, roll away.. stand up.. at jogging speed sit down HARD (bounce!) and at the same time dump the clutch and be ready to pull it back in again quick.. VARROOOM! You're away! Much harder on the flat without a helper, but the principle is the same.


thats a rather good idea, so you think any car mechanic place will have the tools for that?re: clamp meter - its a matter of finding someone who has one. Your mechanic might have one, but theres no telling.. an auto electrician will have one for sure.. if he doesn't, just ask another one. I got one but I'm freakin' miles from you.

DB

[YellowDog]

Hey, if you fist test and measure the battery output, you will know if it is the battery or now. The danger here is that if there is something physically wrong, which might lead to a seizure, you can diagnose it before you blast so much power through it, you cause harm.

The other thing to remember is that the weather has just changed from being dry to being damp. This could be a red herring however if there is now moisture where there was not before, this could also provide an explanation.

You need to make some time to get to the bottom of this one. Good luck.

[Foobin]

so bike worked great this morning, started instantly and was fine all of today, probably started it about a dozen times.

now i got home and went inside to open garage door, came back and bike wouldnt start again !!!

had the battery on charge for about 1 hour and bike fires up again.

so....what you think is the problem? the alternator broken? dead battery? bad karma?

[CookMySock]

so bike worked great this morning, started instantly and was fine all of today, probably started it about a dozen times.

now i got home and went inside to open garage door, came back and bike wouldnt start again !!!

now its making a clicking sound when i press the starter, the dash lights go dim as well.

so....what you think is the problem? the alternator broken? dead battery? bad karma?well you cant really tell accurately, you have to do that charging current check with a proper meter. The checks people have told you about here will work, but really, you need to have it checked properly with a quality test instrument. As I say, it's a 60 second job you are unlikely to be charged for. Then you will know for sure whether you are charging, and the battery is rewted, or you are not charging and the battery is ok. (the battery might be stuffed as well, but the charging circuit might be working ok.)


DB

[Foobin]

alrighty, ill get onto that tomorrow.

[Spuds1234]

If you want I can do the test for you.

I have a meter.

Flick me a txt on 027 2547159 sometime and we can sort something out.

Ive had way to much experience with testing Stator coils and rectifiers seeing as my last two bikes have both poo'ed their stator coils.

[Foobin]

cheers due, that will be great, ill give ya a text in the morning

[skidMark]

yea i hope the alternator is still working

but i still don't get why the battery will drain itself all of a sudden


Thats what batterys do.

Spend $30 and buy a new one. thats the problem.

Instead of fluffing about for the last week.

Yes i'm in a bad mood. yes i'm right.

On another note, i'm wrong and your starter motor is rooted...

in which case i'm right because i suggested it on page one.

[awayatc]

so bike worked great this morning, started instantly and was fine all of today, probably started it about a dozen times.

now i got home and went inside to open garage door, came back and bike wouldnt start again !!!

had the battery on charge for about 1 hour and bike fires up again.

so....what you think is the problem? the alternator broken? dead battery? bad karma?

Sounds to me like all the possible solutions for your problems have already been posted.....:zzzz:

[YellowDog]

Skidmark is right. Your battery needs replacing asap.

[CookMySock]

Skidmark is right. Your battery needs replacing asap.That will almost certainly be the problem.. but the battery DID last a little while, so it is worth checking the charging system. If its charging, then the battery is stuffed.. unless there is something else freaky going on that no one has thought of - rare.

An easy way to "check" the battery is to just look it. If it looks ten years old, then its probably rooted. Automotive batteries don't last that long.

DC clamp meters are great for this sort of thing. You can boof them on any circuit and read its' mind in an instant. I couldn't live without mine.

DB

[YellowDog]

Agreed, but it would appear that the initial power burst to start the bike shows that the Alternator is doing its job. The 'duff' battery is now failing to hold its charge and hence unless the bike goes for a run, it quickly fades away.

[CookMySock]

it would appear that the initial power burst to start the bike shows that the Alternator is doing its job.remember that it was on the battery charger overnight.

Anyway, soon we will see after it is tested. I am keen to hear the result.

DB

[Matt_TG]

My money's on the battery. I learnt years ago that trying to nurse a battery along is a thankless exercise - car or bike. It'll always let you down when it's the most inconvenient and after buying a new one you wonder why the hell you spent so long charging the old one, push starting, parking on hills and so on!

[Foobin]

Im hoping its just the battery. a friend offered to take a look at it, will let you know the results when i find out, thanks everyone.

[FilthyLuka]

Im hoping its just the battery. a friend offered to take a look at it, will let you know the results when i find out, thanks everyone.

Dude, you are starting to be annoying.

Your battery is screwed ("started fine, then just wouldn't start. Charged battery and away she went" paraphrased) Get a new one, they are like $30 new.

Buy one, leave it on a charger overnight, throw it in and robert is your aunties husband.

You don't really need a seventy fifth opinion.

[Foobin]

yea but people keep posting stuff so who cares

[DUCATI*HARD]

fukn suzukis:crybaby:

[Spuds1234]

Put the meter across the battery, full charge.

Started bike, no increase in voltage even at high revs.

Tested stator, continuity across all 3 phases, 0 volts shown when bike is rev'ed.

Im 100% certain that the stator coil is munted.

[idb]

Put the meter across the battery, full charge.

Started bike, no increase in voltage even at high revs.

Tested stator, continuity across all 3 phases, 0 volts shown when bike is rev'ed.

Im 100% certain that the stator coil is munted.

So...how does the bike keep running if there are zero volts at the battery and the alternator is stuffed?

[skidMark]

So...how does the bike keep running if there are zero volts at the battery and the alternator is stuffed?


there is full voltage at the battery, it is basically running total loss...running off the battery to run the coils.

[idb]

there is full voltage at the battery, it is basically running total loss...running off the battery to run the coils.

Pardon me, read it while drinking!
Certainly sounds like it isn't charging alright.

[CookMySock]

check the stator coil continuity to ground ? any shorts to ground ? does it look physically burned ? Check the rectifier pack ?

replace either or both ?

caution: a buggered rectifier pack might damage a new stator (will short it out).

DB

[Foobin]

Got it fixed today, $180 later. Replaced stator coil and bobs ur uncle.

[xwhatsit]

Dude, you are starting to be annoying.

Your battery is screwed ("started fine, then just wouldn't start. Charged battery and away she went" paraphrased) Get a new one, they are like $30 new.

Buy one, leave it on a charger overnight, throw it in and robert is your aunties husband.

You don't really need a seventy fifth opinion.

Hahahaha WRONG, BITCH :2thumbsup

Awesome, only $180 too. I would've thought that'd be the price of the stator alone, without factoring labour into it.

[FilthyLuka]

Hahahaha WRONG, BITCH :2thumbsup

Awesome, only $180 too. I would've thought that'd be the price of the stator alone, without factoring labour into it.

:whistle: teehheehee, my bad

[El Lanzo]

I have the exact same problem i think, hope its just a flat battery, charging it now :weep:

[kevfromcoro]

I have the exact same problem i think, hope its just a flat battery, charging it now :weep:
SHIT we arent going to start again are we
............

[El Lanzo]

muahahahahahahahahahahha