Please don't kill off the two strokes!

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you do (fucking Greenies!)...we'll never see works of art like this!

["D" FZ1]

It will definitely be a sad day when the two smokers are gone :(

[skidMark]

Mint.

Now i can call KTM's gay too.

[Skunk]

It's fucking cool...

[skidMark]

It's fucking cool...

If you're a fag :shutup:

[Trudes]

It's fucking cool...

I could see you riding that at the slipway!!:devil2:

[Crasherfromwayback]

If you're a fag :shutup:

A 250GP race bike is far from GAY. I take it you've ridden one then?

I have...and they're the sexiest thing on earth to ride. Funny how todays best Moto GP racers ALL have 250 two stroke experience eh? GAY they are not.

[glice]

2 strokes are sick. I miss having one. dam greenies indeed. if they are going to ban awsome bikes that blow a bit of smoke, why dont they ban big ghey suvs and the like.

[spudchucka]

The greenies love direct injected two stroke outboard motors. The Evinrude E-Tec two stroke outboard is cleaner burning than any of its four stroke competitors. I don't see why the same technology can't be applied to motor cycles??

http://www.warnersdock.com/E-TEC%20CleanTechnologyBackgrounder.pdf

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/IAME44-1_e-tec.pdf

[Coldrider]

Once upon a time two strokes ruled the earth, and four strokes were overweight gutless things.

[Skunk]

If you're a fag :shutup:
Sssseeeh! Don't post if you don't want to look like a twit.

[Crasherfromwayback]

The greenies love direct injected two stroke outboard motors. The Evinrude E-Tec two stroke outboard is cleaner burning than any of its four stroke competitors. I don't see why the same technology can't be applied to motor cycles??

http://www.warnersdock.com/E-TEC%20CleanTechnologyBackgrounder.pdf

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/IAME44-1_e-tec.pdf

I sure hope they'll get it sorted soon so they save them!

Maybe it's simply downsizing it enough for use on bikes?

[spudchucka]

I sure hope they'll get it sorted soon so they save them!

Maybe it's simply downsizing it enough for use on bikes?

Evinrude is owned by Bombardier, the company that makes SeaDoo jetskis and SkiDoo snow mobiles. I don't know whether or not the E-Tec technology is filtering down to these products but it seems like it would be a logical progression to do so.

[Badjelly]

I sure hope they'll get it sorted soon so they save them! Maybe it's simply downsizing it enough for use on bikes?

Driveability is a problem, apparently:

http://www.motorcycledaily.com/02may01twostrokemystery.html

[Toast]

The greenies love direct injected two stroke outboard motors. The Evinrude E-Tec two stroke outboard is cleaner burning than any of its four stroke competitors. I don't see why the same technology can't be applied to motor cycles??

http://www.warnersdock.com/E-TEC%20CleanTechnologyBackgrounder.pdf

http://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/IAME44-1_e-tec.pdf

Didn't Bimota or someone bring out a direct injection 500 2-stroke in the late 90's? I tend to recall journo's saying that the fuelling was so on/off as to make it unrideable. I'm sure with more R&D than a small Italian company could muster it'd be all good.

[Morcs]

Evinrude is owned by Bombardier, the company that makes SeaDoo jetskis and SkiDoo snow mobiles. I don't know whether or not the E-Tec technology is filtering down to these products but it seems like it would be a logical progression to do so.\

E-tecs are a pile of wank and will probably explode once their warranty expires.

Though the performance is good.

[Pumba]

E-tecs are a pile of wank and will probably explode once their warranty expires.

Though the performance is good.

The guys that have had or have bomabdier Etec's for ski racing have never had any more problems than any one else so I do find it hard to believe that they will self distruct upon warenty completeion, about the only issue with them is that they seem to go through double the oil compared to most other models of engine.

It will be sad indeed the day the 2 smoker is finaly killed off, I cant ride one for shit, but I engine just starting them to suck back the fumes.

[avgas]

If you're a fag :shutup:
Your boyfriend ride one?

[avgas]

Didn't Bimota or someone bring out a direct injection 500 2-stroke in the late 90's? I tend to recall journo's saying that the fuelling was so on/off as to make it unrideable. I'm sure with more R&D than a small Italian company could muster it'd be all good.
Bimota VDue
Still a sexy bike - they ended up doing either a carby kit or rejet on the injection.
Drove the poor co. under and now they all are in a shed, with some parts in strange places like Samoa.

[Skunk]

Bimota VDue
Still a sexy bike - they ended up doing either a carby kit or rejet on the injection.
Drove the poor co. under and now they all are in a shed, with some parts in strange places like Samoa.
You can buy them NEW in America. Can't find the site at work... got it at home.

Most are retro-fitted with carbs.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Here's the beautiful and flawed Bimota V-Due. What a pity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-GpDA__KYw&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-b_jCZsVXw

[skidMark]

A 250GP race bike is far from GAY. I take it you've ridden one then?

I have...and they're the sexiest thing on earth to ride. Funny how todays best Moto GP racers ALL have 250 two stroke experience eh? GAY they are not.


Not the bike just the honda paintjob, tghe bike WAS nice until they painted it lol. :spanking::buggerd:

[henry]

Back the fucking truck up a minute...

What has the engine got to do with the way a bike looks? Apart from the expansion chamber that KTM could be anything.

And the reason all the MotoGP guys used to be 250 two stoke riders is because that's the GP training class. If the 250 class was four stroke then they'd all be four stroke guys.

I love two stokes as much as the next guy, but this is plain stupid. And it's been on the cards for almost 20 years. Too late bloody crying about it now.

[Coldrider]

Not the bike just the honda paintjob, tghe bike WAS nice until they painted it lol. :spanking::buggerd:
It is not a Honda paint job, it is a sponsors paint job.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Back the fucking truck up a minute...

What has the engine got to do with the way a bike looks? Apart from the expansion chamber that KTM could be anything.

And the reason all the MotoGP guys used to be 250 two stoke riders is because that's the GP training class. If the 250 class was four stroke then they'd all be four stroke guys.

I love two stokes as much as the next guy, but this is plain stupid. And it's been on the cards for almost 20 years. Too late bloody crying about it now.

Really? You think you can get a 4 stroke to produce over 100 HP in a package that small and light? There in lies it's beauty.

And if I'm not wrong...there are PLENTY of four stroke road racing classes about mate...it's just that nearly ALL of the guys doing the business at the mo happen to have come from 250 2 strokes.

Next question.

[scott411]

there were 2 Bimota V Dues imported into NZ in about 1998 by Shaft Motorcycles, i worked next door at the time, and i can remember how fucken cool they looked,

i remember they sat their for a while, and everyone loved they way they looked, but no one was that keen to own one, i think they were not particular cheap either,

[skidMark]

It is not a Honda paint job, it is a sponsors paint job.


Thats hondas only have been using in moto gp for a few years now.

[skidMark]

there were 2 Bimota V Dues imported into NZ in about 1998 by Shaft Motorcycles, i worked next door at the time, and i can remember how fucken cool they looked,

i remember they sat their for a while, and everyone loved they way they looked, but no one was that keen to own one, i think they were not particular cheap either,


I wouldn't buy a bike if there were only 2 in the country, especially a 2 stroke.... can you imagine trying to get parts

:gob:

[Coldrider]

Thats hondas only have been using in moto gp for a few years now.

Maybe it should be called a REPSOL then, those who pay, display.

Repsol brand colours since 1995 Mick Doohan 500cc championship, took over from rothmans.

[k14]

Yep that is a damn sexy bike. If I had a spare 30k I'd be first in line for one of the production 125GP bikes that KTM are now producing.

FYI, the KTM's do run a dual carb and injection setup. Supposedly the best of both worlds. Seem to do not too bad vs aprillia. They managed to be pretty much on the podium right from the start with their 125 and 250. Harold Bartol is a smart cookie, thats for sure. Supposedly designed the engines on both machines.

[henry]

Really? You think you can get a 4 stroke to produce over 100 HP in a package that small and light?

If you read what I wrote, I didn't say anything of the sort so where did you get that from? It's pretty hard to tell the HP, weight and size from a photo.


And if I'm not wrong...there are PLENTY of four stroke road racing classes about mate...it's just that nearly ALL of the guys doing the business at the mo happen to have come from 250 2 strokes.

Yeah, because it's run by the same company so it's a natural progression. And GP bikes are completely different from Superbikes or production stuff.


Next question.

I didn't ask any questions. Maybe you have me mistaken for some one else.

Hey, I've been a two stroke fan as long as I've been riding and I'd love to see them still on the road, but it isn't going to happen unless the yanks change their tune. Seems OK to have SUVs gussling all the gas but two strokes are bad?

The biggest worry is what it's going to do to bike racing. Four strokes are just to damn expensive to keep running so where is all the new talent going to come from.

[slowpoke]

Here's the beautiful and flawed Bimota V-Due. What a pity.



As much as I'd love one in my garage, it's not gonna win any beauty contests....those pipes are a travesty.

[steved]

Funny how todays best Moto GP racers ALL have 250 two stroke experience eh?

Nicky Hayden?

[Capinure]

big ball riders ride two stroke , holy crap 500cc 2 strokes ... sexiest things ever

[Sully60]

Nicky Hayden?


Nicky raced 250GP in the States as well flat track and production four strokes so I think that's rather a moot point.

CFWB has a point though if you've ever ridden a 250GP bike you'd know what he's on about. Nothing has the experience of a crisp powerfull two stroke at full throttle hooking gears.

As a well know Wellington two stroke nutter would say,
Waaaaaaaah!

[Badjelly]

Seems OK to have SUVs gussling all the gas but two strokes are bad?

The thing is that, although SUVs may guzzle gas, they don't actually pump 30% of their fuel-air mixture straight out the exhaust, unburned, like a carburetted two-stroke.

But this thread is about nostalgia and what-ifs, isn't it, not a balanced assessment of the environmental pros and cons of 2 strokes. If you wanted to debate that you'd use this thread:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=69190

[Crasherfromwayback]

Back the fucking truck up a minute...

What has the engine got to do with the way a bike looks? Apart from the expansion chamber that KTM could be anything.

And the reason all the MotoGP guys used to be 250 two stoke riders is because that's the GP training class. If the 250 class was four stroke then they'd all be four stroke guys.


Well like you said..."Expansion chamber"...


If you read what I wrote, I didn't say anything of the sort so where did you get that from? It's pretty hard to tell the HP, weight and size from a photo.



Yeah, because it's run by the same company so it's a natural progression. And GP bikes are completely different from Superbikes or production stuff.


So because like you, I can see the "Expansion chamber", I therefore KNOW it's a 2 stroke hence light, powerfull and incredibly sexy to ride.

Now the racing bit. The fact that they are run by the same company has got NOTHING to do with it mate. James Toseland and Colin Edwards came via Superbikes. So did a certain Mick Doohan, Wayne Rainey and Revin Kevin.

The simple fact now seems to be that a modern Moto GP bike is far closer to ride to a 'proper' (as 250GP bike) to ride than a wobbly old (comparatively speaking) Superbike. The old days of the ex flatrack and superbike boys sliding them wildly have gone for now...so the ex 250 guys that carry silly corner speed with precise lines are currently doing the business.

Any further questions?

[montsta56]

I For One am not going to stand by an watch 2 stroke's dissapear, So I've slowly bein buying up every NSR part I can Find. An have started A Race Bike project Which has already cost me way to much money. But I dont think there is anything as purposeful an beautiful as a race bike An a 2 stroke one is the Pinnacle. IMHO.

[limbimtimwim]

Thats hondas only have been using in moto gp for a few years now.Have you clicked it is not a Honda yet?

[Coyote]

The biggest worry is what it's going to do to bike racing. Four strokes are just to damn expensive to keep running so where is all the new talent going to come from.
Rich cunts. Not that it'll be a change, all the talent has been spoilt kids racing since they could walk.

If you're not born on a bike, abandon all hope of racing at the top international levels.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Rich cunts. Not that it'll be a change, all the talent has been spoilt kids racing since they could walk.

If you're not born on a bike, abandon all hope of racing at the top international levels.

Not true. I know quite a few personally that blow that theory into the weeds.

[Coyote]

Not true. I know quite a few personally that blow that theory into the weeds.
Sebastian Loeb of WRC fame was a late starter, so I know it's not the rule.

However it's still very true. I even consider myself a lucky spoilt brat since I got to start when I was 13 on the dirt. Difficult time to learn to ride when you have 5 year olds jumping over you.

[spudchucka]

\

E-tecs are a pile of wank and will probably explode once their warranty expires.

Though the performance is good.

Hmmm, interesting thoughts there. My E-tec hasn't turned into anything remotely resembling a pile of wank yet, in fact it lives up to the hype 100%.

[spudchucka]

about the only issue with them is that they seem to go through double the oil compared to most other models of engine.

Negative if you have it set up to run the XD100 synthetic oil, in fact they use f*&k all oil. If you know anyone with an E-Tec that's consuming bulk oil tell them to get it into their dealer and have it re-programmed.

[Pumba]

Negative if you have it set up to run the XD100 synthetic oil, in fact they use f*&k all oil. If you know anyone with an E-Tec that's consuming bulk oil tell them to get it into their dealer and have it re-programmed.

This was a the owner of Hamiltons Rollos Marine (Hamilton OMC and Yamaha dealer for donkeys years up untill last year or the year before when they got told to make a choice one way or the other and went with Yamaha) own boat, hey maybee it was a sign he was cheating better than the rest of us:shit:

[merv]

Now the racing bit. The fact that they are run by the same company has got NOTHING to do with it mate. James Toseland and Colin Edwards came via Superbikes. So did a certain Mick Doohan, Wayne Rainey and Revin Kevin.


'cept Col was also a 250 racer - started out as a dirt boy when he was young, then did amateur road racing but then his first National Championship win was AMA 250GP champ in 1992 then he moved on to Superbikes at National and later World level.

[slowpoke]

Rich cunts. Not that it'll be a change, all the talent has been spoilt kids racing since they could walk.

If you're not born on a bike, abandon all hope of racing at the top international levels.


Not true. I know quite a few personally that blow that theory into the weeds.

Troy Bayliss didn't start road racing until he was 23 years old. Played with bikes as a youngster but from 10 years old was was distracted away from bikes by other sports.

[Coyote]

Troy Bayliss didn't start road racing until he was 23 years old. Played with bikes as a youngster but from 10 years old was was distracted away from bikes by other sports.
Corr, that's awesome to hear. There's hope for me yet :D

Already got planned to go race the minimoto with the buckets this weekend. Can't go backwards from there really :p

[svr]

All those guys grew up riding bikes (Bayliss incl.) - 2 stroke and 4 stroke - just like any other hand/eye coordination sport learning young is the big thing.
Smokers are cool but u soon get sick of doing handstands and waking up in hospital. Traction control is 20 years late.
Interesting that 600's are going faster than Gardner used to at Philip Island with a lot less power and a lot more weight...

[Coyote]

Interesting that 600's are going faster than Gardner used to at Philip Island with a lot less power and a lot more weight...
Goes to show how far suspension and chassis geometry have improved.

Plus 4 strokes are easier to ride. More power down low and more traction. 2 strokes may have had more power but it was delivered in a hit that didn't last long. Part of their charm innit :D

[Skunk]

Already got planned to go race the minimoto with the buckets this weekend. Can't go backwards from there really :p
Buckets is the TOP of the heap mate!

[Coyote]

Buckets is the TOP of the heap mate!
The junk heap? :bleh:

Kidding, buckets are awesome. Once I get a MIG welder I want to make my own bucket. Got a few ideas for trellis frames in my head.

[Crasherfromwayback]

'cept Col was also a 250 racer - started out as a dirt boy when he was young, then did amateur road racing but then his first National Championship win was AMA 250GP champ in 1992 then he moved on to Superbikes at National and later World level.

True. But I'm sure you'll agree that after several years on superbikes it's where he 'arrived' from come GP time.

[avgas]

Goes to show how far suspension and chassis geometry have improved.

Just to put things in perspective, 2 stroke diesels have had developments in the industrial sector. The equivalent motors from the 40's wacking out less that 200hp now wack out well over 1000 for the same capacitor.
The same comparison can be set to rotary engines (google NSU cars).
What really made me laugh was the fact that all the bad stuff in 2 stroke fumes has same levels as petrol and diesel.

[Deano]

Goes to show how far suspension and chassis geometry have improved.


And tyre technology.


What really made me laugh was the fact that all the bad stuff in 2 stroke fumes has same levels as petrol and diesel.

2 strokes and diesels would have a higher particulate matter content.

[moT]

I have a great idea i cant believe no ones thought of it
give a 2 stroke another piston so it does double the ammount of strokes so it becomes a 4 stroke!!!! 2 times 2 = 4

[Sully60]

2 strokes and diesels would have a higher particulate matter content.

Damn straight! Pollution you can see.:yes: