Carbon fibre question

[huck farley]

I have two very ordinary black plastic side covers on my bike. They look very boring. Could someone be kind enough to tell me . Is it possible to lay carbon fibre over the existing panel and pour the resin onto it and mould it to the shape of the side cover. It's the CF look I'm after not strength. I would appreciate any feedback on this query.
Cheers
Huck

[McJim]

dunno about the technical aspect of your question but would stickers do the job at a fraction of the cost? I think you can get quite hard wearing printed decals you could cut to shape.

[Coyote]

It'll be bulky and heavier. If you want real carbon fibre, best do it the proper way. Put fibreglass around your plastics to make a mould, then carbon fibre inside the mould to make carbon fibre replicas. Otherwise, get the fake carbon fibre sticker sheet.

Otherwise what you said could be done, but I wouldn't think the result would look as good as you're probably thinking.

[nodrog]

you can get carbon fibre "look" sheets, its just a big sticker that you put over the top of the part and trim to suit. any boy racer shop should have it.

like this http://stickers.signprint.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=8739

[Tank]

From what I have been reading (I have been looking into this for rocket kits) - I believe that you should be able to do so.

Will of course require wetsanding and clearcoat to get it looking nice.

[imdying]

Yes you can, it's called an overlay, and can be done to an extremely high standard, making it essentially indistinguishable from the 'real thing'. I can pm you some links if you would like.

[huck farley]

Imdying the links would be great, yes PM me please.

I have used the carbon Fibre stick on vinyl on one other bike I sold. It looked ok but you could still see that it was a cheap fix.

[imdying]

You can overlay pretty much anything... get some 196gm dual twill, and a litre of vinylester resin, and try something like a lunch box first.

[CookMySock]

pfft, just take them to your local vinyl cutter / sign writer, and ask him to slap some CF vinyl on it please. Cost - ten bucks, time taken - ten minutes. I did this on the bumpers on my hiluxes and they look shithot.

DB

[imdying]

pfft, just take them to your local vinyl cutter / sign writer, and ask him to slap some CF vinyl on it please. Cost - ten bucks, time taken - ten minutes. I did this on the bumpers on my hiluxes and they look shithot.I'm not sure how to phrase this in a way that won't hurt your feelings, so I guess I won't even try.

Basically, that you're trying to get him to entertain covering his bike in that crap instead of lifting his game a little, is laughable... Your ten minute ten dollar job will always be, and always look like, just that.

If you want to rice up your Hilux like that, then that's fine, but to suggest that your ghey arse carbon look vinyl is as good as a properly done overlay... seriously, WTF?

An overlay is a nice easy way into making carbon fibre parts, after giving it a go, he'll then be in a better position to decide whether making future parts from actual molds is something he'd like to give a go.

[avgas]

Where do i buy the goodies to do a carbon overlay?

[imdying]

In Auckland, you'll probably find that Nuplex is the easiest. Out of interest, which parts are you after?

[CookMySock]

Basically, that you're trying to get him to entertain covering his bike in that crap instead of lifting his game a little, is laughable... Your ten minute ten dollar job will always be, and always look like, just that. no it looks really good actually, and no I am not trying to GET him to do anything, not that you are interested in hearing what I actually wrote - more like what you believe.


If you want to rice up your Hilux like that, then that's fine, but to suggest that your ghey arse carbon look vinyl is as good as a properly done overlay... seriously, WTF? I didnt suggest that at all. Go re-read, you twit. More about what you THOUGHT you read.


An overlay is a nice easy way into making carbon fibre parts, after giving it a go, he'll then be in a better position to decide whether making future parts from actual molds is something he'd like to give a go.I agree. Perhaps you think I haven't done this before ?

I don't think you tried very hard at all. In fact, I think you were deliberately rude and provocative. Take another look at what you said, and try it word-for-word in a pub sometime, and watch some rather large cunt smack you in the fucken head. The overt bravery of many kiwis behind the wheel and the keyboard is disgusting. I expect you are a perfectly well-behaved and polite individual in real life, not so online.

DB

[imdying]

I expect you are a perfectly well-behaved and polite individual in real life, not so online.Doubtful, I call a spade a spade in real life too... vinyl will not give him a finish to be proud of, saying 'pfft, take it to an ethnic brother who'll make it look like riced' is just wasting his time.

[skidMark]

:jerry::jerry::jerry::jerry::jerry:

[Mikkel]

you twit.

Uh oh, methinks something is about to go - that's right, you know it - INTERNATIONAL!


I don't think you tried very hard at all. In fact, I think you were deliberately rude and provocative. Take another look at what you said, and try it word-for-word in a pub sometime, and watch some rather large cunt smack you in the fucken head. The overt bravery of many kiwis behind the wheel and the keyboard is disgusting. I expect you are a perfectly well-behaved and polite individual in real life, not so online.

You're both right and wrong.

Yes, he's a perfectly well-behaved and polite individual in real life.
Still, he would say he'd say something along those lines if he was engaged in a discussion of the merits of adding carbon fibre to a vehicle.
The blatant honesty is very refreshing - if you can handle it, I guess.

In the end - and all due respect to the vehicle - a Hilux is a pick-up truck. It's no different from adding carbon fiber to a quad bike IMHO. Get over it!
What's next? A titanium muffler for the Massey Ferguson? :rolleyes:

[Tank]

Take another look at what you said, and try it word-for-word in a pub sometime, and watch some rather large cunt smack you in the fucken head. The overt bravery of many kiwis behind the wheel and the keyboard is disgusting. I expect you are a perfectly well-behaved and polite individual in real life, not so online.

DB

The hyprocicy of your post Mr DangerousBastard is hilarious.

You talk about being brave behind a keyboard ... Here are some fantastic DB quotes from a single thread:



....... The hard way is to involve the media. I WILL report this, and I will do it the easy or the hard way, or the really hard way. His call.

Badge number please ?

DB

So what was your really hard way??


haha, yeah right "$150 fine lol - bring it, bitch.." see you in court. GFY!:baby: /me rides off.

pigs have no right to stop you simply for an angry dressing down on the roadside.

Sorry(sarcasm) that flashing ruins their day, but that is stiff bikkie. Get a life and go get some fucking drunk loser off the road so we can all relax, and quit picking fights they can't win.

Sharpen up, pigs. Your ability to actually assist normal law-abiding citizens is fucking piss-poor.

DB

You would say "Sharpen Up Pigs" to a police officers face - me thinks not. But you are happy to say it in a thread about Scummy..


Really ? "losers and liars ay ?" Can you pm me your officer number please.

I will take this further.


DB

We waited and waited


yup. Final request - badge number please, and the "name calling by police officer" leaves the Internet right now, or else it goes international. Your call.
.......

You are beaten this time, how does it feel ?

DB

Beaten this time???? really what happened ????

Calling someone out for bullshit is fine - but it carries more weight if you arent full of it to your eyeballs yourself.

[imdying]

I do like real carbon fibre, but overlays are a satisfactory substitute for cosmetic parts like that. I concede that on some level overlays are no less 'rice' than carbon stickers, but the (not inconsiderable) difference is, an overlay is indistinguishable from the real thing (unless you remove it from the bike).

[Tank]

I looked all last night for this bloody video - but at last I found it:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8801536764731290932&sourceid=docidfeed&hl=en

Its a google video (not youtube - thus the problem in finding it) - I think that it will answer all your Carbon Fibre questions.

So get a mug of coffee - sit back, watch, enjoy and learn.

[imdying]

Yeah, big long bastard that one!! There's a few errors in it though, I'll have to revisit it to expand on that comment though sorry :/

/edit: Pretty sure it was just in the layup schedule, so not a worry if you're doing overlays

[98tls]

I do like real carbon fibre, but overlays are a satisfactory substitute for cosmetic parts like that. I concede that on some level overlays are no less 'rice' than carbon stickers, but the (not inconsiderable) difference is, an overlay is indistinguishable from the real thing (unless you remove it from the bike). Got me thinking about overlaying my front guard,would the curves make it a pain in the arse?

[avgas]

In Auckland, you'll probably find that Nuplex is the easiest. Out of interest, which parts are you after?
I don't know yet - i have to admit i have no experience what so ever. Don't suppose you can buy like a for dummy demo kit with small amount of weave and some resin?

[avgas]

In the end - and all due respect to the vehicle - a Hilux is a pick-up truck. It's no different from adding carbon fiber to a quad bike IMHO. Get over it!
What's next? A titanium muffler for the Massey Ferguson? :rolleyes:
Yes - i fail to see your point.
A zxr250 has less HP than well a David Brown - but i would still mod one.
And for the research a Massey can cost more than a lambo

[Tank]

And for the research a Massey can cost more than a lambo

But even a ugly bastard like me can get laid by hot (but shallow) chicks in a Lambo.

Come for a ride on my tractor just dosnt pull them in as well.

[Tank]

I don't know yet - i have to admit i have no experience what so ever. Don't suppose you can buy like a for dummy demo kit with small amount of weave and some resin?

I was going to look into that myself - I will pop down to the local suppliers next week when I get back from Oz.

[imdying]

Got me thinking about overlaying my front guard,would the curves make it a pain in the arse?Not too bad, but it would be just as cheap to buy a carbon guard.


I don't know yet - i have to admit i have no experience what so ever. Don't suppose you can buy like a for dummy demo kit with small amount of weave and some resin?Have a look here (http://nzsbf.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=1907).

[huck farley]

Skidmarx I thought you had left the forum ? I don't understand a word you wrote on this topic of carbon fibre.

[Mikkel]

Yes - i fail to see your point.

I can see that...


A zxr250 has less HP than well a David Brown - but i would still mod one.
And for the research a Massey can cost more than a lambo

Well it's not about price - I thought the whole thing was quite selfexplanatory...

Carbon fibre is an expensive way to make components that are both light and strong. It's not very durable or tough compared to materials such as stainless steel - although you can get the same structural strength at a much smaller weight for a given component. However, it is more time consuming and expensive to produce than a similar stainless steel or aluminium component.

The point is of course that such technology is only really worthwhile in high level racing (motorised or otherwise) where every gram counts and your equipment only need to last one race.
This is at the very other end of the scale compared to agricultural engineering (tractors, quadbikes and hiluxes(I'm afraid)). While the equipment may be expensive enough it's designed around an entirely different concept - reliability, toughness and economy. Weight is often only a benefit for a vehicle used for towing equipment - as such forking out big dollars for a part, the purpose of which is weight saving, would be downright stupid. (Unless you really care about the bling factor of your tractor).

You with me now? :mellow:

[avgas]

Come for a ride on my tractor just dosnt pull them in as well.
Your doing it wrong then, my old tractor could pull chicks.......































Hell it could pull goats, dogs, sheep, cows, tree stumps, sprayers, trailers what ever i hooked up to it it could pull lol

[avgas]

You with me now? :mellow:
Yeh but its gay - usually im form above fuction but i think carbon is pretty so i use it where i can. Even got halve way through a carbon coffee table.
As for carbon on a truck - I've met a certain someone with 9 second Navara.
I guess if carbon wasn't so pretty we wouldn't have it anywhere when you think about it. Imagine it looked like bog or fibreglass - paint would be required for it.

[JMemonic]

Yes, he's a perfectly well-behaved and polite individual in real life.
Still, he would say he'd say something along those lines if he was engaged in a discussion of the merits of adding carbon fibre to a vehicle.
The blatant honesty is very refreshing - if you can handle it, I guess.

Hmm well behaved, polite ok we can stretch to that ;), blatantly honest hell yes that's him :yes:


What's next? A titanium muffler for the Massey Ferguson? :rolleyes:

Hmm tempting, but only as long as its the size of a 210 litre drum and makes it sound like a can of bumble bees is jammed inside. :whistle:

Anyhow I need to organise to get together with you guys sometime, fibreglass and such I don't know much about and think I might need a hand to realise an idea.

[Mikkel]

Yeh but its gay - usually im form above fuction but i think carbon is pretty so i use it where i can. Even got halve way through a carbon coffee table.
As for carbon on a truck - I've met a certain someone with 9 second Navara.
I guess if carbon wasn't so pretty we wouldn't have it anywhere when you think about it. Imagine it looked like bog or fibreglass - paint would be required for it.

9 second Navara... That's pretty quick - I'd expect them to be about 15 seconds to reach the 100 km/h mark.
(and yes, I realise that you are most likely talking about a 9 second quater mile - which is even more ridiculous :yes: )

Still, what's the point?

Taste is subjective and as such an argument about it is a waste of time and energy. But I don't agree that carbon fibre is pretty - it can look alright, but IMHO the bling value comes more from the fact that it is an exotic and expensive material.


Anyhow I need to organise to get together with you guys sometime, fibreglass and such I don't know much about and think I might need a hand to realise an idea.

PM incoming

[imdying]

but IMHO the bling value comes more from the fact that it is an exotic and expensive material.For me it's a lot like billet machined pieces; I have an understanding of how much effort goes into a part constructed with one of those methods. With carbon, I can see the complexities that the mould would have presented etc. That is why overlays are tolerable to me (and vinyl is not), intricate overlays are actually quite time consuming and complicated.

[98tls]

For me it's a lot like billet machined pieces; I have an understanding of how much effort goes into a part constructed with one of those methods. With carbon, I can see the complexities that the mould would have presented etc. That is why overlays are tolerable to me (and vinyl is not), intricate overlays are actually quite time consuming and complicated. Uh huh...........

[fLaThEaD FreD]

Yes this can be done. Fibreglass is my business and we have done it. PM me and I will give you the mobile number of one of my sales reps who actually did his own bike......I can also supply you with a selection of carbon or kevlar at trade prices.

[imdying]

Yes this can be done. Fibreglass is my business and we have done it. PM me and I will give you the mobile number of one of my sales reps who actually did his own bike......I can also supply you with a selection of carbon or kevlar at trade prices.

Very generous of you mate :yes:

[CookMySock]

Ok Tank I am sick of your shit. Here's your explanation. No more explanations for you after this though.


You would say "Sharpen Up Pigs" to a police officers face - me thinks not. But you are happy to say it in a thread about Scummy..Assumptions, Tank. Again. As you freely admit, this only what you think, yet you state it as fact, where the real truth is I will say anything to anyones face. You wil be far better served to listen and consider what people say, rather than jump to your own preconceived ideas.


We waited and waited .... Beaten this time???? really what happened ????

Calling someone out for bullshit is fine - but it carries more weight if you arent full of it to your eyeballs yourself.Ok, since you ask, the real reason I stopped talking in that thread was because my wife asked me nicely to do so, because I interfered with her feelings. I immeditely PM'ed scumdog and explained and withdrew - ask scumdog. I didn't do it publicly because of her - I lost a lof face and gave cunts like you a lot of fucking mileage, but I don't care about that either - but you do - you milk it for all its fucking worth for your own entertainment. But you don't understand shit like this do you ? Have a go at keeping your own fucking antagonistic mouth shut for a fucken day and see how hard it is, and consider that other people have a life as well. Grrrr.


DB

[avgas]

Taste is subjective and as such an argument about it is a waste of time and energy. But I don't agree that carbon fibre is pretty - it can look alright, but IMHO the bling value comes more from the fact that it is an exotic and expensive material.

Meh i'm not going to argue that.
I pretty much have only 3 settings for things that look good.
Carbon, Shiny.........and MATT Black!!!
If every part on my bike falls into those categories i find myself content.
If i was to go for practicallity for everything on my bike everything would be made out of CROMOLLY haha

[imdying]

Shit bro, have a cry, we're discussing carbon fibre overlays... Your post in that other thread is incorrect too, motorcycle panels don't need to be cured in an autoclave, and you make vac bagging the layups sound like some difficult mystical process... you should give it a go some time.

[imdying]

Carbon, Shiny.........and MATT Black!!!
If every part on my bike falls into those categories i find myself content.I'll see if I can find some good pictures of dual twill eninge parts coated in a matt clear, you'd love those!

[imdying]

Mmmmm, matt finish :)

[Mikkel]

Ok Tank I am sick of your shit. Here's your explanation. No more explanations for you after this though.

Yeah, good on ya. Single Tank out becuase he's the "only" one giving yoiu shit.


Assumptions, Tank. Again. As you freely admit, this only what you think, yet you state it as fact, where the real truth is I will say anything to anyones face. You wil be far better served to listen and consider what people say, rather than jump to your own preconceived ideas.

Ok, since you ask, the real reason I stopped talking in that thread was because my wife asked me nicely to do so, because I interfered with her feelings. I immeditely PM'ed scumdog and explained and withdrew - ask scumdog. I didn't do it publicly because of her - I lost a lof face and gave cunts like you a lot of fucking mileage, but I don't care about that either - but you do - you milk it for all its fucking worth for your own entertainment. But you don't understand shit like this do you ? Have a go at keeping your own fucking antagonistic mouth shut for a fucken day and see how hard it is, and consider that other people have a life as well. Grrrr.

Oh have a fucking sook about it. All due respect to your wife since she seems to have reined you in quite nicely...
A) Tank is not a cunt B) You made a fool of yourself(you're neither the first nor the last to do so btw) C) Get fucking over yourself and accept the piss-take that is due!

Oh, and I believe you threw a few swear words in there so I guess this will have to go international... :msn-wink:

[Tank]

Ok Tank I am sick of your shit. Here's your explanation. No more explanations for you after this though.


Im posting shit generally reply to a whole lot of crap you write. Start making reasonable, considered, helpful post and then my replies will probably be more to your taste. (with the exception of still making International jokes - because face it - thats just fun.



Assumptions, Tank. Again. As you freely admit, this only what you think, yet you state it as fact, where the real truth is I will say anything to anyones face.


That may work in your knitting circle - but seriously - so you really think anyone is going to believe that?




Ok, since you ask, the real reason I stopped talking in that thread was because my wife asked me nicely to do so, because I interfered with her feelings.



Posting shit on a internet forum interfered with your wife's feelings? Fuck living with a dangerousbastard must be a emotional roller-coaster ride.

[CookMySock]

Your post in that other thread is incorrect too, motorcycle panels don't need to be cured in an autoclave, and you make vac bagging the layups sound like some difficult mystical process... you should give it a go some time.Nope, you're wrong. If he actually wants it lighter than a conventional glass layup then it does require the complex approach, or doing it in CF is just a bling exercise. It's very difficult to get a layup lighter - you HAVE to vac it down. and you HAVE make it skinny, and you HAVE to use structural epoxy, and you HAVE to post-cure it for strength, or you go heavier, not lighter.

If he wants bling, chances are he is going to get heavier than plastic. If he wants lightweight - then talk to someone who knows how to actually do that, instead of a boat builder.

DB

[Tank]

If he wants bling, chances are he is going to get heavier than plastic. If he wants lightweight - then talk to someone who knows how to actually do that, instead of a boat builder.

DB

You know that there are a lot of NZ boat builders who make a ton of carbon components right?

Heck - we even lead the world in carbon hulls etc.

[CookMySock]

You know that there are a lot of NZ boat builders who make a ton of carbon components right?Sure. Yeah what I mean is, most boat builders make things that literally weigh a tonne. Thats just the way they think. If you want something that this big by this big that weighs 4 grams, you are going to get a blank stare.. sure, unless you take the job to one of the people you mention.. big bucks there be my guess.

Point taken and conceded.

DB

[Padmei]

what does going international means?

[imdying]

Nope, you're wrong. If he actually wants it lighter than a conventional glass layup then it does require the complex approach, or doing it in CF is just a bling exercise. You're missing the point... vacing a layup isn't complicated...


It's very difficult to get a layup lighter - you HAVE to vac it down.Not difficult...


and you HAVE make it skinny, and you HAVE to use structural epoxy,Wrong... the Britten was made from VER, for example...


and you HAVE to post-cure it for strength,Post cure heating does not have to be accomplished by an autoclave...


If he wants bling, chances are he is going to get heavier than plastic. If he wants lightweight - then talk to someone who knows how to actually do that, instead of a boat builder.Just admit it, you've never tried it, you've no experience, and no clue...

Even if a fairing was made from carbon, and not vacuum bagged, it would still be lighter than the equivalent eglass layup... the gsm of both (for the same strength) is the same. It's a stupid argument though... who would make a replacement panel without vac bagging it? Regardless, it's also a pointless argument, he merely wants to overlay a small existing side cover.

So, do you have an other uninformed, stupid, pointless, arguments that you'd like to share, or are we done?

[onearmedbandit]

what does going international means?

Something to do with this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1455986&postcount=80), one of the all time funniest posts on KB.

[huck farley]

Ok Tank I am sick of your shit. Here's your explanation. No more explanations for you after this though.

DB

Come on guys settle down if you are going to rip one another's throats out. Start a new thread and do it there.

This is my thread and I don't want it hijacked by the likes of you pair making fools of yourselves on it. I am not taking sides and neither is anyone else by the looks. So shake hands and try to be buddies. Please!!!

We all share the same common interests that being the fun and the passion for riding our bikes. and this sort of behavior is not going down to well.

[imdying]

Yes indeedly... so anyway, what have you decided to do?

[CookMySock]

This is my thread and I don't want it hijacked by the likes of you pair making fools of yourselves on it.ah yeah, sorry man. :pinch:

DB

[avgas]

i gets the bike back tomorrow, hopefully i get a WOF next day and i can start dressing her up in the weekend. I forsee alot of spraying, sanding, polishing, drilling and modding in the weekend.
I have my eyes on some pretty little carbon look alike indicators too.

[huck farley]

Yes indeedly... so anyway, what have you decided to do?

I would hate to stuff the job up. I'm an engineer. So I will stick to what I do best, and let the experts weave their magic!!

Thanks to everyone who contributed. The long video was actually brilliant. I sure learned it's not a simple job like being a bog merchant for a day. Just the opposite in fact.

[imdying]

I don't know buddy... some Super 77 (3m spray contact adhesive), a roller, some brushes, some fibre and some resin... and you can pretty much cover anything :yes:

Get something else, like the kids lunchboxes... cover those first (ok, so not a childs lunchbox, do your own!). Once you're confident you can 'hit that shit', then do your bike :yes:

[huck farley]

I don't know buddy... some Super 77 (3m spray contact adhesive), a roller, some brushes, some fibre and some resin... and you can pretty much cover anything :yes:

Get something else, like the kids lunchboxes... cover those first (ok, so not a childs lunchbox, do your own!). Once you're confident you can 'hit that shit', then do your bike :yes:

Yeah ok I will start with my lunchbox, will let you know how it goes.
Cheers
Huck

[imdying]

Please do! The worst thing you can do is make a total mess! But you'll have a ball doing it :D

Shame you're not in Christchurch, resin is reasonably expensive per litre, not bad in a 4L, and dirt cheap in a 10L. I'd have been willing to sort some out for you :(

Try it with some polyester resin, it's the cheapest.

[huck farley]

Please do! The worst thing you can do is make a total mess! But you'll have a ball doing it :D

Shame you're not in Christchurch, resin is reasonably expensive per litre, not bad in a 4L, and dirt cheap in a 10L. I'd have been willing to sort some out for you :(

Try it with some polyester resin, it's the cheapest.

Thanks Imdying. It's blokes like yourself that makes this forum so much better than any of the others I belong to. When I get finished I will send you some pics.
Flatheadfred has me under his wing also, he's going to get me everything I need at Wholesale prices.
Gees if the side covers come out brilliant. Which I'm sure they will!!!! The skies the limit ha-ha (dream on) Thanks everybody that replied to my topic.

[Buddy L]

harder then you think and takes alot of time..
my K6 600 turned out rather good. but was realy time consuming.
Lucky i have a mate thats a boat builder and has the skills.:rolleyes: