OMG, Everything but the gearbox

[niero]

OK, yesterday I bought my brand new sprockets and chain, and guess what... Yes you guessed it, 3 days ago an other problem persisted, when I try to accelerate through the second gear (the second gear only) it makes horrible gear crackling sound, and it also sounds as if my chain is skipping teeth, but when I got the new chain and sprockets the problem did not go away. Now when I accelerate the bike jerks and makes that horrible grinding noise. Now one of my friends thinks is that the 2nd gear cogs are worn out. Any other theories, now (as many of you already know by my previous "help me my bike is dying" threads, I own a (not so fortunate) RF400R) Now, how much would it cost to do something about it. Any theories or comments will be greatly apriciated (once again :'( )

Many Thanks

[Spuds1234]

Start skipping 2nd and just go straight to 3rd.

Every time you do this little peices of metal break off your 2nd gears (driven and driving gears) and then float around in your oil. They will make a mess of your engine.

Hell do an oil change aswell.

My bike does this. Has done so for about 3 months now. IIRC Its caused by giving 1st gear heaps of shit and then dumping a full load of revs onto 2nd to pop wheelies.

Ive never popped a wheelie on my bike. Just tearing away from lights was the straw that broke the camels back I think.

How many k's has your bike done? Mine started doing it at about 94000kms.

[R6_kid]

buy a new bike

Had this problem on my old R6... gearbox was fucked. $1700 later and it was sorted. Unless you know how to strip an engine your self it will be pricey. At least get the engine out of the frame before you take it to the shop and save yourself a fair bit of $$$$. When mine got done over $900 was labour - thats how long it took.

[Spuds1234]

Yea its a good 8 to 12 hour job.

Got a quote of 1000 to do mine.

Figure while there down there they may as well replace the big end bearings and check everything else out.

Im picking 1500 to 2000 all up.

[niero]

Start skipping 2nd and just go straight to 3rd.

Every time you do this little peices of metal break off your 2nd gears (driven and driving gears) and then float around in your oil. They will make a mess of your engine.

Hell do an oil change aswell.

My bike does this. Has done so for about 3 months now. IIRC Its caused by giving 1st gear heaps of shit and then dumping a full load of revs onto 2nd to pop wheelies.

Ive never popped a wheelie on my bike. Just tearing away from lights was the straw that broke the camels back I think.

How many k's has your bike done? Mine started doing it at about 94000kms.

ARGH! Thanks for the tip, yeah once it started making that noise I just started skipping the gear and going straight into 3rd. Alright I am doing an oil change tomorrow, also I got an awesome guy who has a crippled RF400 engine in his shed in auckland, now I dont think that NZ post will be too happy for me to put it into a (rather large) envelope and ship it to me, so here is the question how do i get to chch, (on my budget). also an other question, are the gearboxes from the RF400 and RF400R identical? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks a lot for the tips.


buy a new bike

Had this problem on my old R6... gearbox was fucked. $1700 later and it was sorted. Unless you know how to strip an engine your self it will be pricey. At least get the engine out of the frame before you take it to the shop and save yourself a fair bit of $$$$. When mine got done over $900 was labour - thats how long it took.

The problem here you have an R6, I have an RF400R, my bike is.... was worth 4.5K, the job is worth almost half the bike's worth. Dont get me wrong I love her to bits, but I dont have such money... The guys here in christchurch have given me the same pricing options, so I dont know what to do. On one hand i got myself a broken RF400 engine from Auckland, but I dont know weather the gears will be the same, as I have the "R" model.


Yea its a good 8 to 12 hour job.

Got a quote of 1000 to do mine.

Figure while there down there they may as well replace the big end bearings and check everything else out.

Im picking 1500 to 2000 all up.

1000 thats pretty cheap, I got a quote for 2.5K and 1.5K, the goodie is that $300 is just to open er' up, and $300 to close er'. thats $600 just for... nothing. o well, shit happens I guess, just realy frustrating, when I solve one problem the next is just around the corner. But I guess its like that when your bike has done 50000km

[awayatc]

If you think all is lost/to expensive.....you could try to be brave...
Take out the engine, (get hold of a manual preferably) and start taking it apart.
By the time you got the gearbox apart, you will see which gear needs replacing. You will then be more then likely to get a replacement gear from the dealer ex Japan..( had something like this for a Suzuki dirtbike and gear was $80)
Or maybe find parts you need at wrecker...
or indeed get another engine....
Pulling engines apart is easier then you think, the internet is full of sites with good info.
I am soon 4 weeks in Canterbury again... I may be able to give you a hand if you need help....
Good luck

[skidMark]

OK, yesterday I bought my brand new sprockets and chain, and guess what... Yes you guessed it, 3 days ago an other problem persisted, when I try to accelerate through the second gear (the second gear only) it makes horrible gear crackling sound, and it also sounds as if my chain is skipping teeth, but when I got the new chain and sprockets the problem did not go away. Now when I accelerate the bike jerks and makes that horrible grinding noise. Now one of my friends thinks is that the 2nd gear cogs are worn out. Any other theories, now (as many of you already know by my previous "help me my bike is dying" threads, I own a (not so fortunate) RF400R) Now, how much would it cost to do something about it. Any theories or comments will be greatly apriciated (once again :'( )

Many Thanks

Pull apart the spare engine you have and figure out how it all goes together etc.

Then do the same to your current engine.

Should be the same, look up specs on differences between the RF400 and the RF400R, not too hard ajob, not like you have anything to loose, its poked anyways.

[Spuds1234]

Even if you can take it out of the frame before you take it into the repair shop will save you 1 or 2 hundy.

[niero]

Pull apart the spare engine you have and figure out how it all goes together etc.

Then do the same to your current engine.

Should be the same, look up specs on differences between the RF400 and the RF400R, not too hard ajob, not like you have anything to loose, its poked anyways.


If you think all is lost/to expensive.....you could try to be brave...
Take out the engine, (get hold of a manual preferably) and start taking it apart.
By the time you got the gearbox apart, you will see which gear needs replacing. You will then be more then likely to get a replacement gear from the dealer ex Japan..( had something like this for a Suzuki dirtbike and gear was $80)
Or maybe find parts you need at wrecker...
or indeed get another engine....
Pulling engines apart is easier then you think, the internet is full of sites with good info.
I am soon 4 weeks in Canterbury again... I may be able to give you a hand if you need help....
Good luck
Well, that is not really true, I have quite a bit to loose here, you see I am 17 (therefore I am not allowed to take a loan) I am studying @ Chch HeliPro to become a helicopter pilot (very expensive), My RF is the only, (very only) way of getting me to the airport and back each day, if she dies, I'l die too. Its just that I dont want to do this to my bike, but at the same time i need to get to the airport and back (preferably in one piece). OK, I have pictures for the new engine http://s199.photobucket.com/albums/aa206/paturoa/RF400/

but its the VC Model mine is the 1993 RF400R, what are the differences?!?!? If its nothing big then I would attempt to rebuild the crashed engine with my one as "spare parts", I am not sure how on earth the damage was caused on that one but its in auckland right now and I am trying to figure out weather I should repair the gearbox or bring the crashed engine back to life. Any ideas on how to go around this?

Thanks

Nikolai

[Disco Dan]

Learn by doing. :yes:

I try and do as much repair work as I can - I would attempt pretty much anything.

It's the best way to get to know your bike too - imagine when you pull the gearbox apart and find out how it all actually works, then next time you hear something 'off' you will have a better idea as you can picture all the moving parts in your head.

Get yourself a manual, some overalls and get dirty! :wari:

[Subike]

mate
you work at the chch airport as a trainee pilot? Right!think bro think!!!!
Who services the choppers???? Monkeys!
Go see the mechanics in the workshop.
Have a manuel with you, explain what wrong to them and your training tutor...........
By the time you have had your days first lesson
The job will be done!
Now it may go better than ever, them chopper monkeys love tinkerin with little motors for fun.
They could use it a s a training modual for thier trainees,
prob cost a couple of boxes of speights pluss the parts
Look out side the square circle
:calm:

[Bonez]

mate
you work at the chch airport as a trainee pilot? Right!think bro think!!!!
Who services the choppers???? Monkeys!
Go see the mechanics in the workshop.
Have a manuel with you, explain what wrong to them and your training tutor...........
By the time you have had your days first lesson
The job will be done!
Now it may go better than ever, them chopper monkeys love tinkerin with little motors for fun.
They could use it a s a training modual for thier trainees,
prob cost a couple of boxes of speights pluss the parts
Look out side the square circle
:calm:Just remember not to call them "monkeys" to their faces.

[fergie]

my first vehicle was a piece of crap,spent long periods broken down cause i could not afford to pay to have it fixed. my sister bought me an owners manual that taught me so much!. that was close to 30years ago and to this day i will have a go at pretty much anything. of course the internet is full of how to sites. google is your friend. good luck

[Motig]

Looking at the photos of the wrecked engine you would be better finding out if the gearbox parts are interchangeable with your bike. Too many broken bits on the wrecked engine if you ask me, but I'm not exactly a mechanic. Try looking on the net for info re parts swapping. Good Luck.

[niero]

Hey guys thanks for the replies, the mechenics at helipro will able to do it but I have to pay em' too, thankfully I can do it in chunks. But here is something that really threw me off. When they did the oil change, and looked at the magnet, there were hardly any metal bits. Nothing out of the ordinary, but if my gear tooth fu**s up wouldnt that mean that a metal refinery would take place in my oil system?!?!? So I'm kinda ruling out the possibility of a broken tooth. A helpful guy who I bought my back light from told me that it could be the selector... or something like that. Can anyone expand on that and any other thoughts that they may have. Thanks guys, the help is really appreciated.


Nikolai

[Subike]

I guess you cant get a better warrentee on the repairs than from an aircraft mechanic.Good to see it working for you. Now all you need is some one to loan you a ride till the work is finnished.
sure there is somebody out the with a 2fiddy that can help you with that.
any takers?

[Sketchy_Racer]

It will most likely be the engaging dogs on the gear, not the teeth themselves.

either way it does sound like they will need to be replaced.

Good luck!

[vagrant]

Hey guys thanks for the replies, the mechenics at helipro will able to do it but I have to pay em' too, thankfully I can do it in chunks. But here is something that really threw me off. When they did the oil change, and looked at the magnet, there were hardly any metal bits. Nothing out of the ordinary, but if my gear tooth fu**s up wouldnt that mean that a metal refinery would take place in my oil system?!?!? So I'm kinda ruling out the possibility of a broken tooth. A helpful guy who I bought my back light from told me that it could be the selector... or something like that. Can anyone expand on that and any other thoughts that they may have. Thanks guys, the help is really appreciated.


Nikolai
The most common motorbike gearbox setup uses two splined shafts with the gears positioned along the shafts. Some gears are fixed and others can slide along the shaft. A set of forks move the sliding gears back and forth to mesh and combine the gears to give you different ratios.
Some gears have lugs protruding out sideways, that engage with recesses in the adjacent gear. These are called dogs. If the mating faces of the dogs and recesses are worn or damaged, the gears will try to slip apart. This puts alot of side loading on the shifter forks, and can cause rapid wearing.
Worn forks will not shift the gears sideways enough to engage fully, so the contact area on the dogs is less so they wear faster (you can see this is just going to keep compounding the problem)

Here is an article with neat animations of how it works, http://auto.howstuffworks.com/sequential-gearbox1.htm
This site also has some good photos of the components http://www.crustyquinns.com/tech/gears.html
Most bikes do the second gear dogs in before any other, it generally gets hammered pretty hard.

I had a look at the photos of your spare engine, and I don't reckon you will be fixing that one cheaply or quickly. The cases are stuffed, lots of cracks and the engine mounts look bent as well. Who ever crashed that did a bloody good job on it.

You will need to track down a manual or get the parts guy at a Suzuki dealer to compare the part numbers of the gears to see if you can use the VC motor for spares.

[FROSTY]

Try this exersize. When you change into second. Hold the gearshift up -dont release the pressure. See what that does.--Wont fix the problem but may point to selector forks etc.
Me Id Hail the box out and drop the second box right on in