North Head tunnels?

[SixPackBack]

Conspiracy theory or otherwise?...The Devonport North Head tunnels have been the subject of conjecture and discussion for many years, many of the older generation [many now deceased] have talked openly about huge caverns containing aircraft and an armoury.
Have any of the older boys/girls on KB seen these tunnels?

[Sam I Am]

i heard the first or Boeing ( 001 ) is in there somewere ? God alone knows how i think the US was hiding it from the japs... but I think they lost it in there ?

[Maha]

Didnt the first Concorde to come here land in those tunnels?
Ironically, the Pilot of the first Concorde to come here was named... Captain James Cook....absolutley true.

[SixPackBack]

The whisper was that after the second world war so many armaments remained that removing them become a logistical nightmare

[R6_kid]

I have heard this too... though nothing overly amazing would be in there, as in i doubt anything hugely top secret, though if my memory serves me correct they go back to WW1 when it was the Russians they were worried about - and there was at one stage a VERY large contingency of American Navy stuff hanging around in Auckland.

Any aircraft stored in there would more than likely be wood/fabric/wire construction and very hard to restore assuming that its been damp and muggy down there for the last 60+ years... as such the ammunition was probably well past usable too.

[JimO]

. as such the ammunition was probably well past usable too.


it would be nice and unstable by now

[firefighter]

yeah have you guys been in north head tunnels......yes most are now sealed but aircraft? the mountain isn't that big...........and what really would be the point in putting an aircraft in it would be in pieces so would need to be put together once pulled out, iv'e heard the rumours before but personally I only really think there's old armaments....

[Ixion]

Conspiracy theory or otherwise?...The Devonport North Head tunnels have been the subject of conjecture and discussion for many years, many of the older generation [many now deceased] have talked openly about huge caverns containing aircraft and an armoury.
Have any of the older boys/girls on KB seen these tunnels?

I have been in there many many years ago. Even then the 'front' entrance was sealed up, but if you scrambled along the cliff there was another entrance. All overgrown then, doubtless long since fallen in.

They were BIG. And went a LONG way into the mountain. Further in than small boys could dare each other to go. There were steel doors ,most open or part open, but some closed. We couldn't open the closed ones.

There was 'stuff' in them, but all we saw was rubbish. But there appeared to be cases further in (it was very dark! )

The accepted wisdom was that ammo was dumped at sea after the war, but weapons stores (and maybe vehicles!) were abandoned in there.

I doubt anything of any value was there , but to a departing army 'value' would be a variable thing.

[Laava]

I have been in there and the things I've seen, alien aircraft and NZ's top secret Trekka project, Muldoons bunker.....oh it's scary I tell ya!

[Hitcher]

That could be where my virginity is.

[Mom]

Have never been too far into the North Head tunnels, they are all sealed up now anyway, but have delved deep into the tunnels at Stoney Bater on Waiheke Island. Scarey things tunnels, they soak up all light.

Rumours have been around for many years about what is hidden in them. What ever secrets they hide are well sealed up behind concrete barriers. I doubt anything of any worth is still there though, think about it for a minute. We were a very poor country back in the day, do you really think the government of the day would have allowed anything of anyworth to be buried?

I dont think so, sold or scrapped is my bet. Urban legends are so cool!

[Motu]

North Head is open to the public now,and you can explore all the tunnels,a great day out with the kids.....I'm going to take my granddaughter on saturday if it's fine.

But they weren't always open.In the '70's I worked with a woman whose brother worked in the Lighthouse Keeper Department,what ever that was call at the time.In later years he got all the good posts...and one was at North Head.It was back in the PEP Scheme days,and he had the boys clean out the tunnels.So during breaks we would hear of the things that got hauled out of the tunnels - like complete Jeeps! Because I was into bikes,she used to tell me about the bikes that he ended up with,most were runners.There were Velocete's and others - they were not Army bikes,but bikes requisitioned from private citizens for military use....they were never given back after the war.They may have been paid a token,or nothing at all - my grandfather lost his fleet of trucks this way.When WWII started he had a trucking company,when it ended he had nothing....he was an Irishman,so you can imagine the chip on his shoulder.

Anyway - yes,the tunnels were full of amaizing stuff,and it disapeared.I don't know if this person kept them,or if the Army disposed of them,but they were there.

Same as Silvia Park camp - that was my home ground,and the family of my foreman as an apprentice owned the farm it was built on.The sheds were full of stuff...and motorcycles and cars for sure.One was full of 1940 Chevs,and there were no 1940 Chevs sold in NZ.They had been for US Army use.I knew they were there,and I remember when they were auctioned off.

[Ixion]

Vast amounts of stores were dumped or sold off cheap after the war. The big storage sheds at Camp Bunn and Sylvia Park were chock full of stuff. It was pretty much useless once the fighting stopped , and the Yanks couldn't be bothered freighting it home

And, of course, what was worthless then might not be now. "'ear, Sarge, wot should I do wiv this Indian motorbike, 'S a bit battered n all." " Oh, that old thing is worthless, just shove it down that tunnel n' pile some of this junk in front of it, so those blurdy orficers don't see it or they'll make us carry it out"

Now, WWII Indian, complete and original? What price ?

They were BIG, them tunnels. Long tunnels, with honking big 'rooms' every so often. Piles of stuff, but all we saw was rubbish (then - but who knows nowdays) .

They long predated WWII BTW. Mostly 19th century. The Victorians had an obsession with digging tunnels. Then extended DEEP as air raid protection.

'Tis said that there were tunnels ran to the naval base. Probably true, there were certainly tunnels under the roads around Devonport,

EDIT: the bits of tunnels open now are just a trifle. The extreme outside. The entrance we used was on the seaward side down a cliff. Looked as if there'd been a lookout post or something there once. Only small boys would have found it or got to it.

I've tried to spot it a few times over the years, but I think it probably fell in and is blocked with overgrowth. And I'm not so into scrambling around on cliff faces these days. I very much doubt that entrance would have been sealed up, I think even then (early 50's) officialdom had forgotten it existed. It may never have been "official', looked like a bolt hole where the troops would nip out to have a bit of a spell and a smoke, out of the way of the NCOs.

[Swoop]

Conspiracy? I don’t think NZ had the intelligence for that back then. It would be more of an “incompetence” approach if any.
Any explosives would have been ditched at sea in the same way as other materials and munitions have been. The Hauraki Gulf has quite a bit on the seabed.
There were reputedly seven layers of tunnels from the top all the way down to sea level. The biggest being able to accept covered trucks with deliveries. A story was told of someone tying the end of a ball of string to the top entranceway, and then descending stairs until coming to the other end of the ball of string…
The ministry of works bulldozed over a lot of entrances to make the place safer for the public. Photos still exist of where those openings were. If “they” were serious about getting back in there and investigating properly, it could be done. There is at least one set of plans still in existence…
Singapore has done a brilliant job of making an interesting museum from their harbour defence fortifications. Restoring their tunnels to original wartime condition. The same could be done here.

[Ixion]

Oh. Yeah. I forgot that. We found stairs, concrete ones. Quite a few of them, going up and down. It was a pretty scary place.

[Hitcher]

I've heard that stairs can do that.

[BIHB@0610]

That could be where my virginity is.

Along with my sanity perhaps :buggerd:

[Hitcher]

Along with my sanity perhaps

In both cases, probably a good reason for the tunnels being sealed.

[BIHB@0610]

I remember exploring these tunnels as a young girl (ok, I was 20). They were freaky. We also "explored" an old 'haunted' house on the edge of the quarry at the end of Lake Road in Takapuna. Broke in through a bathroom window, crept through the most amazing old building, found a ballroom in the middle of it, with statues and sculptures all around the edges of the room - had a bit of a boogie to no music (we weren't stable) then the alarm went off. We had to race back to the toilet, squeeze our beer and burger loving arses through the window, down over a woodpile, and hide in the bushes. The security guard wasn't long - he had a really good look around the grounds - so good that we didn't have the courage to walk back out the gates, we slipped and slid down one side of the quarry and scrambled up the other. Man, it was fun being 20 .....:Offtopic:

[Motu]

When the Yanks left they dumped a lot of stuff at sea - stories from ''those that were there'' talk about driving bulldozers of the decks of ships...same with Jeeps and bikes.They went out the back of Mangere when it was in the middle of nowhere and dug mile long trenches and tossed everything in...again,complete motorcycles.My friend remembers lathes still in the protective wrapping.These trenches were uncovered a few years ago when some construction was being done.The was just so much stuff in those stores - right into the '70's you could go into the Army surplus in Hamilton...Valentines,and they would ''sell'' you a parts list.The parts list was all the parts you could buy new to build an Indian - they couldn't sell you a bike,but they could sell you enough parts to build one.I had a parts list,the real deal.Twenty years ago a mate of mine was driving a 6x6 GMC on a construction site - 1974...built brand new from parts out of Silvia Park stores.

As a kid in Mt Wellington our Holy Grail was the mythical ''Ammo Dump''.Lot's of Army stuff in the area at the time,they owned land and there were ''Army houses'' in the neighbourhood.Shells,grenades and helmets were Coin of the Realm at the time....worth a Dinky Toy at least.So we spent a lot of our time on bikes exploring all the old quarries...scaling cliffs and paddling corrugated iron canoes on the stagnant ponds,but never found the Ammo Dump.

[Sam I Am]

So who has a torch and wants to go to the tunnels and find out what's there then ......

ps i am not offering :eek5:

[xwhatsit]

I was up there around December -- took the girlfriend on the back, rode around the barriers so got right up onto the helicopter pad. Stuff walking that far.

Anyway, we couldn't find anywhere to get in. Just a few gun emplacements, a couple of `rooms', but nowhere to get in. Maybe just looking in the wrong place?

On top, there was a building wot had a video playing on loop. Described the history of the place. Showed a cross-section of all the tunnels, mentioned the rumour about there being shitloads of goodies buried in the middle, but said `there are no records' blah blah. Didn't see any huge caverns with Tiger Moths in the 3D cross-section :D Found it very funny about the whole Russian thing.

Really quite fascinating. I was also amazed to learn about all the tunnels beneath Albert Park near varsity; apparently they used to drive trucks in there too. However it's all been filled halfway up the tunnels with old bricks. There's a site kicking around somewhere with photos from some uni students who went exploring last decade.

[El Dopa]

I reckon this is where Blofeld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blofeld) is hiding his spaceships an' stuff (http://www.shanklinsailingclub.btinternet.co.uk/ali/wpagepics/volcano.jpg).

Can't wait to see Sean Connery dogfighting in his autogyro (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:007YOLTposter.jpg) over the Hauraki gulf. I'll climb up Mt Vic for a grandstand view.

[Motu]

Did the original poster put this in the funny pages,or was it sent here by a mod? A lack of respect whoever did it.

[Swoop]

Did the original poster put this in the funny pages,or was it sent here by a mod? A lack of respect whoever did it.
I believe it started right here. The mod's are lazy these days.

[Holy Roller]

The tunnels went from HMNZS Tamaki to North Head to Mt Vic and across to Rangitoto. The rumors of aircraft still in boxes and such were rife when I was in the Navy. The tunnels started beneath the artificers castle at Tamaki where we had a king size pool table. Most of the tunnels that lead off the main one were locked or just bricked off. Never got to get to the end as I was too much of a wuss in the dark, but they went for what seemed like ages. The North Head tunnels just went from gun emplacement to gun emplacement with the interconnecting tunnels back to Tamaki and Mt Vic blocked and bricked off.

So the rumors still are alive, now for someone to do a Discovery Channel doco to try to find out how many of the rumors actually are based in fact. Average Jo Blow will have no show in breaking through the walls on a journey of exploration. if someone is keen to do so give me a call I'll be there.:2thumbsup

[Ixion]

Rangitoto ! ? Not heard that bit before. That's a honking long (and deep!) tunnel.

Why did they go to Rangi? No military stuff there that I ever heard of (though I imagine there would have been observers there when things were tense).

[Cajun]

i wouldn't suggust running around NH at night with fully electric bb guns shooting each other in around tunnels, get end up stalked down the hill by people with real guns.

[Badcat]

i grew up in milford (41 now) so north head has always been huge in my life as a boy.
if anyone was going to explore - i'd be keen.

ken

[onearmedbandit]

I'd love to do a mission through there one day. There are bunkers and gun emplacements by Lyttletyon Harbour iirc.

[Forest]

Didn't some folks survey the place with a ground-penetrating radar a few years ago?

IIRC they didn't find anything.

[Delerium]

There are tunnels and emplacements on motu tapu... thats just across the causeway from rangitoto.

[Swoop]

Didn't some folks survey the place with a ground-penetrating radar a few years ago?
IIRC they didn't find anything.

Quite correct, their equipment "didn't find anything".

First time I've heard about a tunnel to Rangitoto. Sounds like BUMF to me.

[Ixion]

Mr Roller mentions HMNZS Tamaki. This is now at Narrow Neck on the mainland, but until recent years (1960s ??) was out on Motahi Island (or Motatap, not sure which - I think it was the one you can walk to from Rangitoto) . Possibly, either confusion between the two Tamakis has introduced Rangitoto, or there really WAS a tunnel to the original Tamaki, in which case an extenssion to Rangitoto would have been trivial

Given the importance of the original Tamaki, tunnel access from Devonport would have made obvious logistics sense. Hell of a tunnel, but. Still, never pays to underestimate what the Navy can do when it makes up its mind.

(I thought there might have been a shore station named "HM(NZ)S Rangitoto" but I can find no record of one)

[Forest]

There's no chance of a tunnel to Rangitoto.

Remember that power tunnel under Grafton than Mercury built in the late 90's? It was 9.2km long and cost over $120 million.

[Ixion]

They didn't have the Navy on the job ! Or an unlimited supply of noddies.

Got to admit it sounds a bit ambitious though. None the less, I wouldn't put anything past the Senior Service, silly buggers just don't know when something's impossible, and just go and do it.

[PrincessBandit]

That could be where my virginity is.

That lost??!!!:rofl:

[SixPackBack]

There's no chance of a tunnel to Rangitoto.

Remember that power tunnel under Grafton than Mercury built in the late 90's? It was 9.2km long and cost over $120 million.

Would tend to agree however truth is often stranger than fiction..........

Dusted the missus off and scooted up north head on Saturday and one natural feature that had me thinking was the volcanic strata, in several places large natural holes appear in the side of what looks like man made tunnels. kinda got me thinking that the original European inhabitants may have stumbled upon natural tunnels that they then took advantage of.

Also obvious when you start digging around that a lack of information about the existing tunnels begs more questions than answers. For instance many tunnels end blocked off and virtually all have at best a rudimentary explanation of there use. DOC Internet site also glazes over the 'tunnel legend'???

I am planning to spend a bit more time at north head photographing and mapping. While it is just as likely that 'what you see is what you get' my earliest recollection of life in NZ [early 70's] included some very convincing conversations with old boys that I personally find hard to ignore.

[PrincessBandit]

Problem with a lot of those places is they reek of wee and highly suspect bits of discarded rubbish.....eewwwww

[Eddieb]

This has always fascinated me as well.
http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/documents/conservation/historic/by-region/north-head-self-guided-walk-june-2002.pdf is DOC's self guided walk map of North Head with overlays of the tunnels and a concise history of each area use.

If I was local I'd have be keen for some exploring.

[Disco Dan]

What no talk of the HUGE bunkers underneath the Auckland University Epsom campus?? Hmm...

[Toaster]

Yep, went through the tunnels back in 1990 when I was in the Navy (soap collector).

I know nothing, admit nothing and you will have to get me drunk to find out the truth.

[Ixion]

This has always fascinated me as well.
http://www.doc.govt.nz/upload/documents/conservation/historic/by-region/north-head-self-guided-walk-june-2002.pdf is DOC's self guided walk map of North Head with overlays of the tunnels and a concise history of each area use.

If I was local I'd have be keen for some exploring.

I am entirely certain that the tunnels shown there (I've actually been through those a few years ago - that disappearing gun is an interesting item, though the buggers have buggered it up. And Mrs Ixion forbade me to dismantle the mechanism. Bugger) are just a VERY small part of the whole complex.

For one thing, they are pretty much on one level. The big tunnel complex I remember had at least 4 levels. We went up one level and down two. But there may well have been more. Also, there are none of the steel doors I remember. And they are simply not extensive enough.

We walked for at least half an hour in one direction. Admitted in the dark except for a couple of candles (and a small torch which went flat). And the same back. And we certainly didn't reach the end - just the end of our faith in our leader to be able to navigate back again!

Also, logistically, no-one would be silly enough to put in batteries like that and not make provision for communication between them, and with commanding officers. They would hardly have sent runners around the outside during a bombardment!

Not enough space for stores, or ammo, or workshops , or sleeping quarters, in what is open nowdays, either. And no provision for medical or wounded evacuation.

[curious george]

FFS sake you lot! i have to spoil a good story, but I don't think there is anything there that's undiscovered.
Go and have a look for yourselves!
There ain't nothing there except a few measly tunnels to frighten 5 year olds.
Go on, grab a torch and have a look.:lol:
I'm looking at north head and Mt Vic right now, and I ain't seen anything like it.
But now, as for fuel tanks, don't buy a property anywhere the Navy base.
Big ones underground thar...

[Mikkel]

Awesome thread... Nothing like dark cavernous tunnels to send the imagination of a young boy (or older man) tripping! :niceone:

I loved this (http://triggur.org/silo/silo.html) little "VR" tour of a Abandoned Missile Silo. Enjoy!

The university in Denmark where I took my M.Sc. has en extensive network of underground tunnels. These are of course off limits for students and other unauthorised personnel. Many were the rumours and stories about what was down there. Never got to explore the entire lot - should have had a serious go at it after I graduated :yes:

Went on a caving trip with some mates about a year ago - that was awesome! If you don't suffer from either claustrophobia or fear of getting yourself wet, cold and mucky I can warmly recommend going caving. It is wicked fun and squeezing yourself through dark and moist nooks and crannies far below the earth has a weird primal appeal :D


Conspiracy theory or otherwise?...The Devonport North Head tunnels have been the subject of conjecture and discussion for many years, many of the older generation [many now deceased] have talked openly about huge caverns containing aircraft and an armoury.
Have any of the older boys/girls on KB seen these tunnels?

Where are these tunnels exactly - near Auckland or?


That could be where my virginity is.

Unlikely, I heard that it had been lost at sea... :whistle::Pokey:


I'd love to do a mission through there one day. There are bunkers and gun emplacements by Lyttletyon Harbour iirc.

Seconded!

I dunno about bunkers on Banks Peninsula - but there are certainly old gun emplacements. They are neither hidden nor very exciting though. Not unlikely that they would make a good camping shelter if one should be so inclined.

[SixPackBack]

Awesome thread... Nothing like dark cavernous tunnels to send the imagination of a young boy (or older man) tripping! :niceone:

Where are these tunnels exactly - near Auckland or?.

Correct. Situated on the North Shore in Devonport. Devonport is one of Aucklands oldest suburbs that contains a long running naval base, and two large, strategically important hills [Mt Victoria and North head].

[Mikkel]

Correct. Situated on the North Shore in Devonport. Devonport is one of Aucklands oldest suburbs that contains a long running naval base, and two large, strategically important hills [Mt Victoria and North head].

Ah...

I've had a look on the map of that area before and thought that those two hills looked interesting! They don't appear that big though - I'd wouldn't have thought that a large network of tunnels would fit in there...

[SixPackBack]

Ah...

I've had a look on the map of that area before and thought that those two hills looked interesting! They don't appear that big though - I'd wouldn't have thought that a large network of tunnels would fit in there...


Check out google earth. Pay attention to the naval base close by, at least one large tunnel does exist extending back from the base and as Mr Ixion asserts the tunnel legend includes the naval base tunnel connecting to North head.

[Ixion]

FFS sake you lot! i have to spoil a good story, but I don't think there is anything there that's undiscovered.
Go and have a look for yourselves!
There ain't nothing there except a few measly tunnels to frighten 5 year olds.
Go on, grab a torch and have a look.:lol:
I'm looking at north head and Mt Vic right now, and I ain't seen anything like it.
But now, as for fuel tanks, don't buy a property anywhere the Navy base.
Big ones underground thar...

With respect mate, but how old are you?

I'm sure there's nothing accessible (readily, anyway) now. But 50 years ago , things were different.

I doubt any recollections later than the early 60s are worth anything, after that everything was sealed off.

NZ in the early stages of WW2 was very scared, North Head would quite certainly have been fortified against an invasion. And with more thna antique guns.

[Ixion]

Check out google earth. Pay attention to the naval base close by, at least one large tunnel does exist extending back from the base and as Mr Ixion asserts the tunnel legend includes the naval base tunnel connecting to North head.


You can clearly see the evidence of underground works on Google earth. Those would be near the surface, but no fortification architect would have put into batteries that were not connected.

[SixPackBack]

With respect mate, but how old are you?

I'm sure there's nothing accessible (readily, anyway) now. But 50 years ago , things were different.

I doubt any recollections later than the early 60s are worth anything, after that everything was sealed off.

NZ in the early stages of WW2 was very scared, North Head would quite certainly have been fortified against an invasion. And with more thna antique guns.

What else can you tell us Ixion??

[The Stranger]

yeah have you guys been in north head tunnels......yes most are now sealed but aircraft? the mountain isn't that big...........and what really would be the point in putting an aircraft in it would be in pieces so would need to be put together once pulled out, iv'e heard the rumours before but personally I only really think there's old armaments....

Nah the tunnels lead to another dimension, so there is plenty of room.

[Ixion]

What else can you tell us Ixion??

Not much really. A bunch of kids in the fifties (I was born and brought up on the shore, and had rellies at Narrow Neck).

Like all kids, getting into places we should not have.

Climbed down the cliff face (it was over the sea , wouldn't have been much of a dare if it wasn't). Came down to this small shelf bit , and found it had a tunnel mouth into the hillside. "Go on, dare y'. I'm not scared. Just uh, Mum will be cross if I get dirty. Yah yah yah". So of course we had to go on in.

The entrance was semi fallen in (I think earth had fallen from above), but we climbed over it. Narrow, only ever had been narrow, about wide enough for a grown man to go through .

Inside, was a tunnel.

We came back later with candles and a torch, and went further in. Tunnels, rooms (not huge, about the size of a large room in a house, or smaller)

Found some stairs, up and down, but not beside each other (ie if you went down one flight the flight down to the next lower level was in a different place).

Probably concrete floors and walls, but very dirty. Piles of rubbish (old crates and stuff, but all empty as far as we could see), broken timber here and there, mostly in corners, as if they'd been dumped there when the room was cleared out.

We thought we heard voices and noises once or twice but that might be boyish imaginations working overtime.

None of the places we found seemed to have an exit to the outside.

There were steel doors in there, some closed (we couldn't open them , but we were small kids in the dark); some ajar (we could push a few of those more open); and some open.

We went back a few more times, furthest we went was about a half hours walk, in a vaguely straight line .

Some of the rooms had had shelves along the walls.

It was pretty smelly.

Looked for the entrance some years later as a teenager. Though I saw where it was, but I was not so keen then on scrambling around on cliff faces, and there was no way to get a girl down there, so there didn't seem much point.

Couldn't tell you what direction it all ran in, it's pretty hard to keep oriented underground.

I do know that the Navy (or Army?) were still 'in residence' on the Head, you couldn't go there then. We climbed along the cliffs from Cheltenham.

Once the Navy left (maybe 1960 something), I remmeber going up there to look around, but there was no sign of any tunnels or anything, even less than nowdays.

There was a big flat area with steel mushrooms across it (ventilators for an underground room), can't remmeber if that was Mt Victoria or North head. Quite a large area.

EDIT You quite definately cannot access what we found as kids from any of the publically accesible areas nowdays.

[SixPackBack]

Cheers Ixion. Trying to find information on North Head is not easy, and unfortunately those in the know are getting long in the tooth or dead.

[R6_kid]

There was a big flat area with steel mushrooms across it (ventilators for an underground room), can't remmeber if that was Mt Victoria or North head. Quite a large area.

EDIT You quite definately cannot access what we found as kids from any of the publically accesible areas nowdays.

Mushrooms are on Mt Vic...

I remember seeing a lookout point on the seaward cliff of North Head.

North head has the better public tunnels, but I am certainly interested to venture deeper if it is possible. Would be good to try and map the tunnels, and use some decent powered torches/search lights to illuminate things.

[The Stranger]

Would be good to try and map the tunnels, and use some decent powered torches/search lights to illuminate things.

DOC did this in the ninties, including drilling and excavating. Turned up sweet FA, unless of course that was a cover up to try and conceal the real truth, that the moon landing was actually filmed there.

[Magua]

I've had a lot of fun exploring at North Head.

These tunnels Ixion talks of are intriguing. Can KB uncover the mysteries of the past?

[Ixion]

Actually, it appears that the DoC investigation picked up from an abandoned joint project between the government and the army in 1990 that had to be abandoned when the army pulled out after 4 weeks. The government (and DoC) refused to proceed with deep tunnelling without the Army, claiming fears of ancient ordnance. The DoC investigation was confined to archeological studies (ie, surface stuff).

That there are, or once were, tunnel complexes there is , IMHO, quite certain. I have the knowledge of what I saw, and reports of numerous other people. Moreover, it is simple common sense that there would have been a support complex for the batteries. You don't just put in gun batteries and then leave them to it.

In the event of an invasion the gun crews would have been sealed up, under bombardment, perhaps for days.(there would have been more gun emplacements than you see nowdays - with modern guns).

They would need to be supplied with orders, stores, ammo, food. Wounded would need to be evacuated, and reliefs supplied. Only an utter idiot would not make covered provison for that.

And there would have been radio rooms, map rooms, store rooms.

There's nothing unusual about this, it's just standard fortification stuff. Sydney's own North Head had a similar complex (though theirs is admitted).

In the event, we never had to fight. After the battles of the Coral Sea and Midway , it was obvious that the Japs were unlikely to make it this far, and interest in fortification waned. But , until then, the NZ military assumed that they would have to fight for King and Country. And, hopefully do a less yellow bellied effort of it than that consummate coward General Percival in Singapore, and his equally gutless mate Admiral Sommerville (one of the very few RN commanders to run away from the enemy !). They would have been guilty of gross negligence if they had NOT prepared extensive fortifications to support the Dominion's largest city and chief naval base.

How much of it remains now is another matter. And I doubt that there would be anything in there of interest, other than to archeologists , who can become orgasmic over an old button. And any records are probably still classified.

[SixPackBack]

DOC did this in the ninties, including drilling and excavating. Turned up sweet FA, unless of course that was a cover up to try and conceal the real truth, that the moon landing was actually filmed there.

Funny you should mention that.........I have just had a long chat with my father who is one of New Zealand's leading Philatelic historians. He has letters and communications from troops stationed at north head during the second world war. His recollection includes a book that was scripted about ten years ago with information pertinent to the tunnels. In a nut shell the theory [supported by various sources] has ascertained that indeed tunnels did exist-big tunnels-lots of tunnels......and the main reason the government are keen to keep the whole thing on the QT is undoubtedly unstable armaments and/or the tunnels.

I shall be seeing Dad next Saturday and will question him further, checking out his philatelic evidence will also be illuminating.

The hunt is now on for this 'book' if anyone can help finding/sourcing historical documents I would be most appreciative

[Ixion]

I think (IMHO) that the chance of there being any ammunition down there is so close to zero that we would be better off worrying about that meteor.

The Army and navy are most anal about ammunition. It's very important to them, and they keep very close tabs on it. Things like motorbikes, general stores, aeroplanes, pouufff, who cares: but ammo, that they always deal with.

Any ordnance that was under there will have been taken out and moved, destroyed, or dumped at sea (the latter far the most likely).

There might be a few buttons down there thoug, if that's what turns you on

The government reluctance to admit anything is just the usual "don't let's rock the boat" syndrome.

Suppose someone DID prove there were tunnels and such like down there. Can you imagine the fuss? OMG - What if the mountain falls down. OMG what about property values. OMG how can you be SURE there aren't atom bombs down there WE'RE ALL GOING TO BE BLOWN UP. OMG think of the children.

Just think of the H&S implications? And the Resource managemnt Act problems.

Much better to deny everything.

[westie]

This is definately a great thread.
When do we start digging? I got a 12 ton digger!!!!

[R6_kid]

We gonna sneak that in under cover darkness or just go up there about midday?

[Motu]

I believe it started right here. The mod's are lazy these days.

Now the thread is out of the funny pages and into R&R - who is shifting it around?

I guess there are a couple of generations or more who have no idea of the defense efforts during both World Wars....and other wars.The gun emplacements around the Tamaki Drive water front were a fixture right into the '70's,but I must of blinked and they disappeared - but there are Aucklander's in their late 20's who have no idea they were there.A friend of mine blew the door off one with a pipe bomb.

The Yanks did a lot of things in Auckland in WWII,camps Bun and Sylvia Parks are obvious,there are also big drainage ditches from Aranui Rd into Sylvia Park,and out into the Tamaki River.There is another mystery I never found out much about - the Van Dam's.We spent a lot of time there as kids,a real hidden space to have adventures.We got to it though a pipe in Ireland Rd,that drains into the Panmure Basin,or though the Back of Alex Harvies where you crossed the rail lines to get to Panmure Station.

The Van Dams was a small lake with a big pipe going over top...lots of frogs and eals and french letters.And there were tunnels!.Several tunnels cut into the bank by a path that went around the lake....they were dark,and we didn't have torches,scary shit.The tunnels went in maybe 30 ft,say 20metres or more and had short side tunnels off them.I have no idea who made them or why,but we were told the Yanks did it.Access could be hard these days,the culvert is grated and access blocked from Mt Wellington Highway.

Ixion,does your Mrs remember them?

[R6_kid]

Thankfully I studied hard in Social Studies through 3rd and 4th form. I'm 21yo now, went to a school on the Shore and had teachers that were really into local history. We covered the Maori Land Wars, but i was far more interested in the WW1 and WW2 stuff. We visited many sites, including gun batteries up towards torbay (from memory) that were dressed up as houses... These were all along the north shore, and im sure more still exist. Funnily enough some of the sites used to be Maori Pa fortifications carved into the cliff edges and were simply 'modernised' for use at the time.

We visited both North Head and Mt Vic, as well as Fort Takapuna at Cheltenham etc. Went relatively in depth (for 14/15yo's) into the fortification of Auckland/Wellington/Dunedin, but mainly focussed on Auckland and in particular Devonport.

Auckland was a staging and refuelling base for the USN iirc. Northcote/Birkenhead was had a number of large fuel tanks up on the hills with a pipeline running out into the middle of the harbour for the ships to hook up to for refuelling. All gone now of course. Kauri Point is still in use for storing munitions among other things - might be worth checking out on google earth. All i know is that the hill down to the wharf is a steep mother fucker, wouldn't be surprised if there is some underground stuff there too.

I am genuinely interested in checking out the tunnels at Nth Head/Mt Vic good and proper. Also interested to hear more about this stuff out Mangere ways?

[SixPackBack]

Now the thread is out of the funny pages and into R&R - who is shifting it around?

I guess there are a couple of generations or more who have no idea of the defense efforts during both World Wars....and other wars.The gun emplacements around the Tamaki Drive water front were a fixture right into the '70's,but I must of blinked and they disappeared - but there are Aucklander's in their late 20's who have no idea they were there.A friend of mine blew the door off one with a pipe bomb.

The Yanks did a lot of things in Auckland in WWII,camps Bun and Sylvia Parks are obvious,there are also big drainage ditches from Aranui Rd into Sylvia Park,and out into the Tamaki River.There is another mystery I never found out much about - the Van Dam's.We spent a lot of time there as kids,a real hidden space to have adventures.We got to it though a pipe in Ireland Rd,that drains into the Panmure Basin,or though the Back of Alex Harvies where you crossed the rail lines to get to Panmure Station.

The Van Dams was a small lake with a big pipe going over top...lots of frogs and eals and french letters.And there were tunnels!.Several tunnels cut into the bank by a path that went around the lake....they were dark,and we didn't have torches,scary shit.The tunnels went in maybe 30 ft,say 20metres or more and had short side tunnels off them.I have no idea who made them or why,but we were told the Yanks did it.Access could be hard these days,the culvert is grated and access blocked from Mt Wellington Highway.

Ixion,does your Mrs remember them?


Interesting.
Weiti station [nestled between Okura and Stillwater] was another spot that allegedly has an area of interest. The story goes that after WW2 the troops stationed there dumped/buried vehicles.
I lived in Stillwater for many years and spent some time on Weiti station. The only interesting feature I could find is on a headland at the Stillwater end, what appears to be ditches and crude attempts at fortification still exists, however its just as likely this feature is Maori. I tried contacting local Iwi in search of history but did not get very far.

[Swoop]

Kauri Point is still in use for storing munitions among other things - might be worth checking out on google earth. All i know is that the hill down to the wharf is a steep mother fucker, wouldn't be surprised if there is some underground stuff there too.
Boundary Rd is possibly the steepest Rd in Auckland.
There are no (repeat NO) tunnels on KP.
The only thing resembling a tunnel there is the area between A & C laboratory. That area was "semi-underground" at best.

A far better tunnel system is at Whangaparaoa...

[El Dopa]

They didn't have the Navy on the job ! Or an unlimited supply of noddies.

Got to admit it sounds a bit ambitious though. None the less, I wouldn't put anything past the Senior Service, silly buggers just don't know when something's impossible, and just go and do it.

Yes, but Occams razor is frightful sharp.

The more people involved in a big engineering project, the likelier it is that one will be a talkative soul, another might be an amateur photographer, etc etc.

I suspect if there was a tunnel from North Head to Rangitoto, it would be something that somebody somewhere knew about and was happy to talk about.

Having said that, there's a lot of interesting stuff around North head and its well worth spending a couple of hours exploring it. I've also seen WW2-era photos showing anti-sub netting streching from the shore, over to Mechanics bay (or somewhere around there), so there was a lot of hadcore fortification stuff going on around there.

[El Dopa]

That there are, or once were, tunnel complexes there is , IMHO, quite certain. I have the knowledge of what I saw, and reports of numerous other.....

[snip]

.....would have been guilty of gross negligence if they had NOT prepared extensive fortifications to support the Dominion's largest city and chief naval base.
.

Well, yes, that's the sensible way to go about things. But even a fairly lightweight scholar of military history is frequently left gobsmacked at how often the sensible approach is apparently wilfully ignored.

If you told me the tunnels provided stabling for hundreds of horses, because charging the enemy was still considered to be the pinnacle of military strategy, I would only be mildly surprised.

[barty5]

got a mate who lives out Clarks beach way the US had an airfeild out that way and as others have said at the end large hole dug push it all in planes and all from memory a lot of that stuff has been dug up. As for north head im only 36 but i remember the tunnels being a lot longer and more connected than they are today. Makes no sence to not have them joined up. What you going to do once the shelling starts oh Jimmy would you just run round the shore line then up the hill and bring us back some more amo, Yeh right there a tui's add if ever you saw one.

[westie]

We gonna sneak that in under cover darkness or just go up there about midday?

Bah just go up at midday and tell em we're gonna dig up mount vic. They'll never beleive us... well till......

[The Stranger]

got a mate who lives out Clarks beach way the US had an airfeild out that way and as others have said at the end large hole dug push it all in planes and all from memory a lot of that stuff has been dug up. As for north head im only 36 but i remember the tunnels being a lot longer and more connected than they are today. Makes no sence to not have them joined up. What you going to do once the shelling starts oh Jimmy would you just run round the shore line then up the hill and bring us back some more amo, Yeh right there a tui's add if ever you saw one.

As a matter of interest, why would you burry all your shit. Ok, taking it away may be too much of a logistical nightmare when all you want to do is get your tired troupes home, but why not just give or sell it to the locals cheap and save yourself time and money?

[westie]

As a matter of interest, why would you burry all your shit. Ok, taking it away may be too much of a logistical nightmare when all you want to do is get your tired troupes home, but why not just give or sell it to the locals cheap and save yourself time and money?

Spose it could've been used against them or for no good (eg chris gets hold of an indian and wheelies it around pissing off the "sensible" ones, not very clever)

[The Stranger]

Spose it could've been used against them or for no good (eg chris gets hold of an indian and wheelies it around pissing off the "sensible" ones, not very clever)

Yeah, you got a point, would have been a good time for NZ to invade America.




Lets face it, we would have been better armed than we are now.

[arj127]

i went through some of the tunnels in karori in wellington about 20 years ago, and that place is huge. Its friggin cold down there, you need heaps of clothing, and you need good quality torches with spare batteries because its incredibly dark. We went a long ways in, down huge flights of stairs and i remember entering large rooms that were bricked off, obvious there was something behind them. Maybe they were bricked off because that part of the room had collapsed i'm not sure. But i know i would sure like to go back in there for a better look. Opening North head up would make an awesome tourist attraction for sure.

[RT527]

Yes, but Occams razor is frightful sharp.



I suspect if there was a tunnel from North Head to Rangitoto, it would be something that somebody somewhere knew about and was happy to talk about.



The only thing resembling a tunnel was the base for the mines across the harbour to Bastion point...it was more of a pipe that housed the power cable that was used to detonate the mines....

[Pumba]

But now, as for fuel tanks, don't buy a property anywhere the Navy base.
Big ones underground thar...

Personally would not worry about that, a few people seemed to get pretty pissed off a few years ago when they found out there very expensive house were floating on a thin crust of eath above thin air. The fuel tanks were filled with soil up to the curent boundary of the base, it was an interesting process and the size of the tanks quite suprising. I still have an IPENZ article floating around somewhere about the way the went about it with some interesting photos.

[jagman]

great place the hill of holes shes riddled with them sum only meters above the rocks by the ocean spent heaps a time exploring as a teen ager beck in 85 86 lots a locked passages great place ta scare the pants off ya misses to,there be stuff in there i dont think a plane unless in pieces,still must go back for alook

[Ixion]

I guess there are a couple of generations or more who have no idea of the defense efforts during both World Wars....and other wars.
..
There is another mystery I never found out much about - the Van Dam's.We spent a lot of time there as kids,a real hidden space to have adventures.We got to it though a pipe in Ireland Rd,that drains into the Panmure Basin,or though the Back of Alex Harvies where you crossed the rail lines to get to Panmure Station.

The Van Dams was a small lake with a big pipe going over top...lots of frogs and eals and french letters.And there were tunnels!.Several tunnels cut into the bank by a path that went around the lake....they were dark,and we didn't have torches,scary shit.The tunnels went in maybe 30 ft,say 20metres or more and had short side tunnels off them.I have no idea who made them or why,but we were told the Yanks did it.Access could be hard these days,the culvert is grated and access blocked from Mt Wellington Highway.

Ixion,does your Mrs remember them?

Yes, not only does she remember them (it) she was , and is it's self appointed guardian. Her parents house was right up above Van Damme's.Her grandparents beside it. When you sneaked through from Alex Harvey's it was their fence line you sneaked along. And now the shade of her father has found out who one of the young buggers was, he's coming back to haunt you.

Van Damme's is still there. With another hat on I am President of the local ratepayers association, and we spend a lot of time haranguing the city council about it. Making sure they fully appreciate it. Yes, the old pipe is fenced off. But, if you go a little along Mt Wellington Highway, you will find a car park. With a sign. And a nice set of wooden steps, leading down to the lagoon area. Which has a nice gravelled path round it, and a wee bridge so the elderly do not have to walk over the pipe.

A few things are gone. No longer does the local florist row out in a boat each morning to harvest waterlilies. And once, there used to be ducks and geese there. Until shortly before each Christmas anyway, when Mrs Ixion's father and uncle would go down early with shotguns.

The tunnels are still there, though we are fighting with the council at present , who want to fill them in, because, gasp, horror, they discovered that small children were using them to hide in. They long predate the Yanks, they were dug by none other than Mr Van Damme! The original owner of the site. An eccentric gentleman who was obssesed with the notion that there was gold to be found everywhere, and who dug the tunnels, in pursuit of his auriferous dreams, in the 1930s. Mrs Ixion's grandfather knew him well.

As to defence efforts- when I was a young lad, just after the war, the primary school I attended had a large concrete air raid shelter. Built into the lee of a hillside, with , guess what, yes, tunnels leading back from it into the hillside, and rooms at the end of the tunnels. In the event of an air raid, the children were to rush to the air raid shelter and , if bombing started they were to be shepherded through the tunnels into the subterranean rooms.

When I was there the signs detailing what to do in the event of an air raid were still on the walls. And we still had air raid drills! The minor event of VJ day seemed to have escaped the principal. We didn't get to go through the tunnels though, they had been fitted with doors and were used by the caretaker. I did get to go into them a few times.

I imagine they have long since been sealed off, and people will nowdays say they are a myth.

Almost all schools had some such arrangement. It was a government requirement. New Zealand fully expected air raids as well as 'hit and run' bombardment by the Jap navy, even after the likelihood of actual invasion had been discounted.

A more complacent generation that has never known war too lightly discounts the efforts the country was prepared to go to when , or if, it came to fighting for our survival. I am glad we never had to fight and I hope today's young people never have to either.

(By the by - Mrs Ixion says you owe her for any frogs you took. Her father kept ducks , as many folk did then. And one of Mrs Ixion's childhood duties was to raise tadpoles in old washing machine bowls with wire netting over the top, until they turned into frogs , to be fed to the ducks. But the frogs would regularly escape (sneaky little buggers that they are, as any boy who has tried to take one to school will agree), and hopped off down to the lake. So those were HER frogs . She is willing to settle for sixpence a frog)

[Swoop]

Personally would not worry about that, a few people seemed to get pretty pissed off a few years ago when they found out there very expensive house were floating on a thin crust of eath above thin air. The fuel tanks were filled with soil up to the curent boundary of the base, it was an interesting process and the size of the tanks quite suprising.
Yes, quite large indeed!
When they cleaned them out (1980's) I believe there was about four foot of scum on the bottom of each tank.
With the advent of Endeavour, the tanks were useless.

The tunnel from the base to Ngataranga. The small tunnel that heads away to the east... That was used for the "great rum theft" or at least the storage of the barrels of rum, or so the story has it.

[Motu]

Wow,thanks for that Les.....so whose were the condoms? We used to climb up from the pipe and look into that back yard.The pipe had a rolling gantry,and you could climb down to a platform underneath.It was just a fantastic mystical garden,something from another world dropped down into a suburban/industrial landscape.Outside were cars going past,factories working,a railway line,and houses...but at the Van Dammes we were transported into another world.I bet your wife has some fond memories of the place over many years.We used to go to the movies in Panmure,and would cross over the railway at Alex Harvies,pocketing some spoils from the scrap bins on the way.On the way home we would stop at the Van Dammes if there was time.

I'm really,really pleased to know it's still there,so keep up the good work,and will see if I can get to it next time I'm in Auckland.On friday I walked around the Basin,we used to hang out there too,but you couldn't walk all the way around.I used to pushbike to Panmure going down to the basin at the Yacht Club and riding a dirt walking track to Lagoon Drive,then up to the Library.

So not built by the Yanks....seemed an odd thing for them to do anyway - it's just that anything out of the ordinary in that area must of been done by them...they had the run of the place for years.

[Forest]

What no talk of the HUGE bunkers underneath the Auckland University Epsom campus?? Hmm...

Are you talking about the bunkers under the old Auckland Teachers Training College?

They're old Civil Defence shelters. You can see the ventilation stacks rise up in a couple of places. I had a look inside one of them a few years ago - it was basically an empt concrete room.

[terbang]

i heard the first or Boeing ( 001 ) is in there somewere ? God alone knows how i think the US was hiding it from the japs... but I think they lost it in there ?
Dunno if it was S/N 001 but it was definitely the first Boeing to be exported from the USA. My Grandfather flew it.

[Ixion]

Nothing to do with the Japs. Long before that. The first two planes made by W E Boeing were brought to NZ in 1918 and used by the NZ Flying School in Kohi, until the school folded up in 1923. That much is certain fact.

Anecdotal reports say that after the school folded, the planes were taken across the harbour and stored in the Navy yard at Torpedo bay, which used to be under North Head. (EDIT 'under' in the sense of 'at the foot of') Further reports say that they were eventually put into a tunnel at athe rear of the yard which was subsequently blocked off. One suspects that if they were indeed thus entombed, it was because they were by then junk and the old tunnel was a convenient dumping place.


I have found rather an interesting thing though, this very early (1930s) aerial photo of North head. Which clearly shows a now non existent road going up the mountain and a vehicle size tunnel entrance going into the mountain. (same photo, different magnifications)

So there was SOMETHING under that hill which was large enough for trucks to drive into

[Swoop]

So there was SOMETHING under that hill which was large enough for trucks to drive into
There is a photo still around, taken from outside the Masonic pub, looking towards NH. Clearly evident are three entrances large enough to take an entire truck in height and width. How far they extended into the hill, goodness only knows.

[rwh]

The more people involved in a big engineering project, the likelier it is that one will be a talkative soul, another might be an amateur photographer, etc etc.


Good point, that - perhaps the less trustworthy majority are still in there? :dodge:

Richard

[Eddieb]

http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/page.aspx?id=34069 Shows an aerial photo taken in 1942, however it's a very small picture so no real detail.

[Forest]

http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/page.aspx?id=34069 Shows an aerial photo taken in 1942, however it's a very small picture so no real detail.

Interesting article. Can't have been much fun sleeping in the tunnels:


At the start of WW II there was not enough accommodation to house everyone on North Head and the gunners and searchlight crews had to bunk down in tunnels

[barty5]

Nothing to do with the Japs. Long before that. The first two planes made by W E Boeing were brought to NZ in 1918 and used by the NZ Flying School in Kohi, until the school folded up in 1923. That much is certain fact.

Anecdotal reports say that after the school folded, the planes were taken across the harbour and stored in the Navy yard at Torpedo bay, which used to be under North Head. (EDIT 'under' in the sense of 'at the foot of') Further reports say that they were eventually put into a tunnel at athe rear of the yard which was subsequently blocked off. One suspects that if they were indeed thus entombed, it was because they were by then junk and the old tunnel was a convenient dumping place.


I have found rather an interesting thing though, this very early (1930s) aerial photo of North head. Which clearly shows a now non existent road going up the mountain and a vehicle size tunnel entrance going into the mountain. (same photo, different magnifications)

So there was SOMETHING under that hill which was large enough for trucks to drive into

that tunnel shown in your pics looks like its not far round to the north side from the large gun that is still there be rather hard to cover up the road as well kindashown on this photo

[marty]

From today's Herald:

The air force's bombs, torpedoes and depth charges were stored by the navy in tunnels at Whangaparaoa north of Auckland.

[geoffm]

There are always the tunnels under Albert Park
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/other/albert/
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/other/albert/journey.html

Be nice if they could open them up one day

[Magua]

There are always the tunnels under Albert Park
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/other/albert/
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/other/albert/journey.html

Be nice if they could open them up one day

"if what the students come up with can be done by the year 2000, then I'm interested" Haha.

Does anyone know what's happening with the tunnels these days?

[JATZ]

that tunnel shown in your pics looks like its not far round to the north side from the large gun that is still there be rather hard to cover up the road as well kindashown on this photo

I think I know the tunnel, about 50mt's' long, 2 rooms of to the left hand side and a small window at the far end,wasn't anything in there as far as I remember.
The rumors about stashed planes an stuff have been around for years, nobody ever found anything though 'course I'm not saying there's nothing there.
Spent hours/days/weeks running around the whole hill as a kid so I knew it pretty well. Used to be a great place to get together with some mates and have wars with fireworks, back in the good old days before they banned all the good stuff.
AHH, firring skyrockets down the tunnels at my brother, such happy memories

[curious george]

With respect mate, but how old are you?

I'm sure there's nothing accessible (readily, anyway) now. But 50 years ago , things were different.

I'm 83 young fella me lad, so in human years, 30 ish.
There are two old fogies as neighbours, I'll ask them, they might remember something.
What about the tunnels on Waiheke isl? Anybody bee nover there?
I had a brief visit ages ago, but they were locked up.

and from the herald... http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10506919&ref=rss
NZ Navy might be firing duds?

[lb99]

I spent a day with my wife on the hills in devonport, north head and mt vic, she made me spend a day in the malls, so this was my choice, it was awesome, you could definatly tell there was a lot more to it than they let you at, I took a heap of pics too, she got bored and tired.......

I grew up in dunedin, and theres quite a bit of old crap around the harbour, we used to break into the tunnels at the (now) dissappearing gun complex and albatross colony, those big seagulls are freaky huge!!!... never got anywere near the gun though.
theres quite a bit of underground shit there, from the boer war to ww2, been to godley head in chch too

[martybabe]

What an interesting thread,I love this kind of stuff.I've seen the other side as it were.The German fortifications on Jersey part of Hitlers Atlantic wall to keep the poms and their allies out.

Some of the bunkers have been restored to how they were and are periodically open to the public but the vast majority are there to be explored with a map and torch. Interlinked bunkers on several levels with escape hatches, gun mounts,amunition hoists and ghosts,real or imagined,of the slave labourers that built them.

I spent three years exploring that tiny island but I doubt I found 30% of whats there.

60 years since the Germans left,celerbrated on liberation day every year but stuff is still found almost weekly,Nazi helmets, guns, tunnels.History you can touch,it's fascinating and thought provoking.

The secrets, the tragedy, the betrayal, to stand in the same place as an occupying German soldier,to briefly imagine what the master race must have felt like on British soil and subsequently awaiting there fate at the hands of the liberators.

Yes marvelous stuff tunnels.

[geoffm]

I'm 83 young fella me lad, so in human years, 30 ish.
There are two old fogies as neighbours, I'll ask them, they might remember something.
What about the tunnels on Waiheke isl? Anybody bee nover there?
I had a brief visit ages ago, but they were locked up.

and from the herald... http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10506919&ref=rss
NZ Navy might be firing duds?

The battery and tunnels at Stony Batter at Waiheke is worth a look if you are over there. There is about a 2km walk from the parking place to the entry.
http://www.doc.govt.nz/templates/page.aspx?id=34076
http://www.sorenlarsen.co.nz/2008/V263_Ian/pages/Gun%20emplacements%20at%20Stoney%20Batter_jpg.htm

Geoff

[brendonjw]

Was talking to the old man the other day, one of the guys at his work is really into his amature archeological stuff (even teachs some paper at auckland uni i think so hes not that amature) Anyway, he was telling the old man about some of the cave and tunnels around auckland. Theres a house in Mt Eden (i think) that has a cave about the size of 3 houses attached to it, ie in the basment theres a cubboard on the wall, open it up and one whooping great natural cave is in front of you, apparently the owners are pretty cool and he takes people through it sometimes as a tour.

But he is also very interested in the NH tunnels, and has done a fair bit of research on them, he did find out that there is a tunnel between auckland and the north shore, (im not sure where the ends are as i havent spoken to him yet)

Ill try and find out some more info from him.

[SixPackBack]

What an interesting thread,I love this kind of stuff.I've seen the other side as it were.The German fortifications on Jersey part of Hitlers Atlantic wall to keep the poms and their allies out.

Some of the bunkers have been restored to how they were and are periodically open to the public but the vast majority are there to be explored with a map and torch. Interlinked bunkers on several levels with escape hatches, gun mounts,amunition hoists and ghosts,real or imagined,of the slave labourers that built them.

I spent three years exploring that tiny island but I doubt I found 30% of whats there.

60 years since the Germans left,celerbrated on liberation day every year but stuff is still found almost weekly,Nazi helmets, guns, tunnels.History you can touch,it's fascinating and thought provoking.

The secrets, the tragedy, the betrayal, to stand in the same place as an occupying German soldier,to briefly imagine what the master race must have felt like on British soil and subsequently awaiting there fate at the hands of the liberators.

Yes marvelous stuff tunnels.

Bet you experienced some truly poignant moments while exploring Jersey. History needs to be kept alive for future generations to enjoy, not buried and denied.

[martybabe]

Bet you experienced some truly poignant moments while exploring Jersey. History needs to be kept alive for future generations to enjoy, not buried and denied.

It was infact buried and denied,at first,understandable I guess after spending five years under the Nazis.One of the pictures above is of a place called the grave yard of the guns,wher the liberators took all the German artillery and shoved it down the cliff to the ravages of the sea as a gesture of defiance to the defeated Germans.

In modern times the fortifications and tunnels are seen by many as a valuable reminder of dark days and is being looked after by some dedicated people for the future.Well done them. And well done you,I was totally unaware of such things in NZ.

[Motu]

Was talking to the old man the other day, one of the guys at his work is really into his amature archeological stuff (even teachs some paper at auckland uni i think so hes not that amature) Anyway, he was telling the old man about some of the cave and tunnels around auckland. Theres a house in Mt Eden (i think) that has a cave about the size of 3 houses attached to it, ie in the basment theres a cubboard on the wall, open it up and one whooping great natural cave is in front of you, apparently the owners are pretty cool and he takes people through it sometimes as a tour.

But he is also very interested in the NH tunnels, and has done a fair bit of research on them, he did find out that there is a tunnel between auckland and the north shore, (im not sure where the ends are as i havent spoken to him yet)

Ill try and find out some more info from him.

There are natural lava tunnels in Auckland,some of them very long.Another of our Holy Grail's as kids,we spent a lot of time on the cones and in quarries looking for lava tunnels.The longest apparently is on One Tree Hill.

[Skunk]

New Zealand Cities are covered in gun emplacements. Many of them from the time of the Russian scare. Wrights Hill here in Wellington was built at that time. It's 90% open to tours for a donation. I've walked over 2 kms through it. The remains of the diesels for power generation are still in there.

I also know of emplacements in Ngaio, Miramar, Somes Island, and Seatoun.

There were several Army/Navy bases around the area during WW2 that the Americans used.

[c4.]

I had a day veiwing lava caves in Auckland 3 years ago.
There's a house on the side of Mt Albert with a 100 metre lava tunnel at the back of their garage, a big one in the gardens at Mt Eden, several near Landscapes road, and some beauties at Mangere Mt and surrounds.
*rushes off to rat thru old charts*
I'll post the map if I can find it

[martybabe]

New Zealand Cities are covered in gun emplacements. Many of them from the time of the Russian scare. Wrights Hill here in Wellington was built at that time. It's 90% open to tours for a donation. I've walked over 2 kms through it. The remains of the diesels for power generation are still in there.

I also know of emplacements in Ngaio, Miramar, Somes Island, and Seatoun.

There were several Army/Navy bases around the area during WW2 that the Americans used.

Brilliant ,thanx. By russian scare do you mean sixties cuban missile crisis/ cold war threat?

[Skunk]

Brilliant ,thanx. By russian scare do you mean sixties cuban missile crisis/ cold war threat?
Turn of the century (1899-1902 I think)

[martybabe]

Turn of the century (1899-1902 I think)

ok,thanks,I shall look it up. intreagued now. cheers. :niceone:

[Skunk]

ok,thanks,I shall look it up. intreagued now. cheers. :niceone:
I think it all started around 1854 with the Crimean War (Russia against England and France) and Russia's expansion. Just when NZ got scared I'm not so sure.

Anyone?

[Magua]

I thought it was around the turn of the century. A warm water port for one of their fleets.

edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Head%2C_New_Zealand#Military_usage

1885 it seems, if you can trust the word of the wiki.

[The Pastor]

ixion, if you point me to where you think the tunnel is over a cliff, I will climb on down _b old and wise you may be, but im young and dumb _b

[barty5]

Well now this has opened in to lava tunnels my grandfather was a govt architect and drew up the plans for national womens hospital greenlane. When time came to build it a large cavern was found under were it now sit took rather a lot of extra work building walls and cement filling in before it was built as it is today. Rummor has it the lava tunnel from there run out to point chev ??

[Forest]

I had a day veiwing lava caves in Auckland 3 years ago.
There's a house on the side of Mt Albert with a 100 metre lava tunnel at the back of their garage, a big one in the gardens at Mt Eden, several near Landscapes road, and some beauties at Mangere Mt and surrounds.
*rushes off to rat thru old charts*
I'll post the map if I can find it

Many years when I was a Cub Scout, our troop got to take a look in the Landscape Rd tunnels.

They basically led off from the property owner's back garden. Wonderful stuff for a group of small boys.

Here's a picture I found on the web.

[Swoop]

From today's Herald:

The air force's bombs, torpedoes and depth charges were stored by the navy in tunnels at Whangaparaoa north of Auckland.
There's bugger all up there. The store rooms are pathetically small compared to other locations.

Also, the article comments on the Kauri Point storehouses. These have old asbestos roofing materials and are common among defence establishments. Repairing these is now a major task, with all the OSH bullshit involved.

[sAsLEX]

There's bugger all up there. The store rooms are pathetically small compared to other locations.



And for some reason lots of the tunnels you can get into up there smell of CS gas.......

[Brett]

Well, I for one put my name forward for a complete and utter exploration of these and any other tunnels that might be an adventure. I may even do some this weekend. Yes I am 24, and still a kid.

[Ixion]

And for some reason lots of the tunnels you can get into up there smell of CS gas.......

Hm. I'm less concerned about the fact that the tunnels smell of it, than about the fact that you know what it smells like! Especially given that CS is forbidden to military forces under the terms of the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention)

[jrandom]

Hm. I'm less concerned about the fact that the tunnels smell of it, than about the fact that you know what it smells like! Especially given that CS is forbidden to military forces under the terms of the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention)

The Army advertises the fact that it puts its soldiers through CS gas exposure training in its television recruitment commercials.

One presumes that Navy personnel get a similar deal.

[Swoop]

The current shape of the hill.

[Krayy]

Many years ago (late 70s), we went for a wander and I got into a tunnel that went into a couple of large rooms where there was what seemed to be a generator. The entrance I think was on one of the "goat tracks" going down to the sea below the now gated entrance on the southern side of the heads.

There were a few tunnels and doors heading off that room, but we didn't venture into them (scary stuff).

Also an old school mate died there one night when they had a drinking session in the cave below that main gun and he went out and fell off the edge.

[Hitcher]

If World War II had lasted another year, the whole country would have been riddled with tunnels, coastal batteries, air raid shelters and the like. "At it like rabbits" our ancestors were.

[sAsLEX]

Hm. I'm less concerned about the fact that the tunnels smell of it, than about the fact that you know what it smells like! Especially given that CS is forbidden to military forces under the terms of the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas


Members of the US armed forces are exposed to CS during initial training, and during training refresher courses or equipment maintenance exercises, using CS tablets that are melted on a hotplate

[Ixion]

Ah. So can you confirm that it is non-lethal, then ?

[Holy Roller]

The Army advertises the fact that it puts its soldiers through CS gas exposure training in its television recruitment commercials.

One presumes that Navy personnel get a similar deal.

Tear gas exposure was done at the Nataranga Bay NBCD complex in the flooding chamber. Bad stuff excessive amounts will make one loose control of bodily functions. One had the choice of how long they wanted to stay in the room. I have had multiple exposures to this stuff from my school days in the ATC and in the Navy.

[Ixion]

Ah. So it is lethal , then ?

[Timmay]

Due to the fact that North head is popular with tourists all the good tunnels are now blocked off. If anyone is keen for some old military tunneling, the castor bay gun tunnels are cool. The two main entrances at the gun emplacemnts are now blocked off but last time I was there the entrance on the low side of the hill was still open. Definately need a torch for these ones. This all coincides well with the new indiana jones movie coming out soon.

[Magua]

Due to the fact that North head is popular with tourists all the good tunnels are now blocked off. If anyone is keen for some old military tunneling, the castor bay gun tunnels are cool. The two main entrances at the gun emplacemnts are now blocked off but last time I was there the entrance on the low side of the hill was still open. Definately need a torch for these ones. This all coincides well with the new indiana jones movie coming out soon.

I'm there. _b

[Brett]

I'm there. _b

Count me in too. Got some kick arse torches we can use.

[sAsLEX]

Ah. So it is lethal , then ?

About the same as Dihydrogen Oxide.....http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

[Forest]

Ah. So it is lethal , then ?

Everything becomes lethal ... above the right dosage.

[Hitcher]

Even Kiwi Biker.

[SixPackBack]

Nothing to do with the Japs. Long before that. The first two planes made by W E Boeing were brought to NZ in 1918 and used by the NZ Flying School in Kohi, until the school folded up in 1923. That much is certain fact.

Anecdotal reports say that after the school folded, the planes were taken across the harbour and stored in the Navy yard at Torpedo bay, which used to be under North Head. (EDIT 'under' in the sense of 'at the foot of') Further reports say that they were eventually put into a tunnel at athe rear of the yard which was subsequently blocked off. One suspects that if they were indeed thus entombed, it was because they were by then junk and the old tunnel was a convenient dumping place.


I have found rather an interesting thing though, this very early (1930s) aerial photo of North head. Which clearly shows a now non existent road going up the mountain and a vehicle size tunnel entrance going into the mountain. (same photo, different magnifications)

So there was SOMETHING under that hill which was large enough for trucks to drive into

Google earth has helped pin point this spot. I am off to have a look tomorrow with dog and missus.........photo's to follow:cool::cool:

[SixPackBack]

Google earth has helped pin point this spot. I am off to have a look tomorrow with dog and missus.........photo's to follow:cool::cool:

* Cancelled due to weather*

[Grahameeboy]

* Cancelled due to weather*

What...it doesn't rain in the tunnels...

I think your conspiracy theory is wrong..but what do I know...I am only a local...

The areas locked are for safety reasons. Even the open areas require a torch...our local homeless guy Bob sleeps in the tunnels so I will have a word next time I see him..

[SixPackBack]

What...it doesn't rain in the tunnels...

I think your conspiracy theory is wrong..but what do I know...I am only a local...

The areas locked are for safety reasons. Even the open areas require a torch...our local homeless guy Bob sleeps in the tunnels so I will have a word next time I see him..

So its fine to believe in a dusty book over 2000 yrs old [without a shred of evidence], but question the possibility that the government is being less than honest about the north head tunnels and my? 'conspiracy theory' is wrong. <_<

I posed the question to stimulate discussion, the subject is interesting and refuses to die. Physical proof in the form of photographs, philatelic history and anecdotal reports have never been denied by the military nor investigated fully. DOC may not be lying but they sure as hell are being reckless with the truth.:oi-grr:

[Maha]

our local homeless guy Bob sleeps in the tunnels ..

Next you going to tell us Bob Built them??

[Swoop]

So its fine to believe in a dusty book over 2000 yrs old [without a shred of evidence],
The most popular novel ever published. Better than Mills & Boon actually (similar content?)...

DOC may not be lying but they sure as hell are being reckless with the truth.
It doesn't have to be DoC... there have been other groups of public servants involved in NH since its military closure and opening to the public.

[avgas]

You bastards need to keep away from my underground lair:2guns:!

[SixPackBack]

You bastards need to keep away from my underground lair:2guns:!

Batman?.......is that really you?

[Grahameeboy]

So its fine to believe in a dusty book over 2000 yrs old [without a shred of evidence], but question the possibility that the government is being less than honest about the north head tunnels and my? 'conspiracy theory' is wrong. <_<

I posed the question to stimulate discussion, the subject is interesting and refuses to die. Physical proof in the form of photographs, philatelic history and anecdotal reports have never been denied by the military nor investigated fully. DOC may not be lying but they sure as hell are being reckless with the truth.:oi-grr:

Dusty? It's called the NEW testament...