Cheap rear shocks not worth it

[worzal07]

As the old saying goes,"you buy cheap,you get cheap". I recently bought some aftermarket rear shocks ($400 Hagan),for my 2006 Suzuki Boulevard S50 (VS800) & not that happy.I am noticing most bumps I go over are not fully absorbed by shocks.Quite a bit is transfered into my lower back,which doesn't make an enjoyable,comfortable ride at all.This is a CRUISER & I want reasonble comfort,not GSXR handling.Surely there must be better Quality aftermarket rear shocks available from somewhere.What are OHLINS & WP like on cruisers ?

[Pussy]

I have no experience riding on Ohlins cruiser shocks, but if they are anything like the sport bike shocks, they will perform to the highest standard

[crazybigal]

are they worse than the stock ones?


As the old saying goes,"you buy cheap,you get cheap". I recently bought some aftermarket rear shocks ($400 Hagan),for my 2006 Suzuki Boulevard S50 (VS800) & not that happy.I am noticing most bumps I go over are not fully absorbed by shocks.Quite a bit is transfered into my lower back,which doesn't make an enjoyable,comfortable ride at all.This is a CRUISER & I want reasonble comfort,not GSXR handling.Surely there must be better Quality aftermarket rear shocks available from somewhere.What are OHLINS & WP like on cruisers ?

[Robert Taylor]

As the old saying goes,"you buy cheap,you get cheap". I recently bought some aftermarket rear shocks ($400 Hagan),for my 2006 Suzuki Boulevard S50 (VS800) & not that happy.I am noticing most bumps I go over are not fully absorbed by shocks.Quite a bit is transfered into my lower back,which doesn't make an enjoyable,comfortable ride at all.This is a CRUISER & I want reasonble comfort,not GSXR handling.Surely there must be better Quality aftermarket rear shocks available from somewhere.What are OHLINS & WP like on cruisers ?

The reason that is happening is because the shocks are choking off hydraulically when you ride over abrupt obstacles that require sudden shock shaft deflection. At $400 you are paying for ( and this is cold hard reality ) a set of shocks that are little better than made to fit the bike with at least some attention paid to springing. The internal components are mass produced, very generic and are not specifically set for each bike by exhaustive testing.
We sell quite a few Ohlins shock sets for especially Harleys that are afflicted with harshness. Metric cruisers are a growth market for high quality high performance shocks that will ACTUALLY ABSORB NASTY BUMPS and at the same time will give superb ride height control and improved handling precision. It is possible tio have all of these qualities rolled into one!
PM me for info specific to your bike. The Ohlins product is not cheap, because it actually works like suspension should!

[CookMySock]

The reason that is happening is because the shocks are choking off hydraulically when you ride over abrupt obstacles that require sudden shock shaft deflection.What Robert is saying here, is that a plain metering orifice (a simple hole, or series of them) acts in a non-linear fashion when presented with varying flows. This is a problem on a suspension unit, as you (roughly) want a constant force from the shock, not an increasing force as you hit larger bumps, and the shock moves more rapidly.

The trick is to use a shock that can actively vary the size of its' valving depending on the oil flow-rate. A simple oil-metering hole can't do this, so a stack of shims that can flex with the oil flow does it instead.

You can modify a simple shock to have a proper metering shim-stack by adding a device inside the shock. I forget what it was called..

DB

[Mental Trousers]

You can modify a simple shock to have a proper metering shim-stack by adding a device inside the shock. I forget what it was called..

You forget where they're used too. Emulators can only be used in forks.

Don't know if Robert can do anything with them (sounds like he can't) so replacing them with something decent maybe your only choice.

[CookMySock]

You forget where they're used too. Emulators can only be used in forks.ah yeah.. I was meaning "in suspension in general" but yeah emulators are put in front suspension, not rear. It doesn't seem logical to me though - why not replace the simple orifice in the rear as well.. maybe its easier to just toss the whole rear shock and replace it.

DB

[Pussy]

At the end of the day, you can't make strawberry jam out of pig shit. You get what you pay for. Ohlins, Penske, WP etc etc are made to exacting standards, with model specific characteristics (or able easily, by a knowledgeable technician, to be made to a RIDER specific set up). Tolerances and engineering excellence are built in to high quality gear.

[Mental Trousers]

ah yeah.. I was meaning "in suspension in general" but yeah emulators are put in front suspension, not rear. It doesn't seem logical to me though - why not replace the simple orifice in the rear as well.. maybe its easier to just toss the whole rear shock and replace it.

DB
Because there's no room and every shock is different. With forks there's room because you can shorten the spacers for the springs and also because all forks that use the orifice method are basically the same. The main difference is the diameter of the forks. With shocks the principle is the same but the exact implementations are different (space requirements, cost blah blah).

[CookMySock]

Because there's no room and every shock is different.Thanks MT. Always a concise answer !

DB

[xwhatsit]

Of course cheap shocks are worth it. Just depends on what you're upgrading from.

[Kickaha]

Of course cheap shocks are worth it. Just depends on what you're upgrading from.

If you ever ride a bike with top of the line suspension you'd soon change your mind

[xwhatsit]

If you ever ride a bike with top of the line suspension you'd soon change your mind
Hence my comment, `depends on what you're upgrading from'. F'rinstance, 1983 Honda FVQs to OEM Suzuki GSXR600 is quite an eye-opener.

And paying $300 for some old-model Konis is a worthy upgrade -- spending twice the value of the bike in Öhlins is nonsense.

[GSVR]

As the old saying goes,"you buy cheap,you get cheap". I recently bought some aftermarket rear shocks ($400 Hagan),for my 2006 Suzuki Boulevard S50 (VS800) & not that happy.I am noticing most bumps I go over are not fully absorbed by shocks.Quite a bit is transfered into my lower back,which doesn't make an enjoyable,comfortable ride at all.This is a CRUISER & I want reasonble comfort,not GSXR handling.Surely there must be better Quality aftermarket rear shocks available from somewhere.What are OHLINS & WP like on cruisers ?

I actually thought Hagon made reasonable shocks. Sounds more to me that the shocks you brought are not providing the kind of ride you like.

Its very easy to get a very soft suspension setup but this is not what someone would want on a sporty bike.

If these are not really cheap Hagons you should be able to adjust compression dampening but are you sure you just havent got too heavier springs to begin with?

http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/main1st.htm

[Kickaha]

Hagon are like Koni, one size fits all with a different spring depending on the bike

A few years ago I got Hagon for an old bike of mine, I may as well have fitted a solid steel bar as the springs they came with didn't sag at all with me sitting on it

[Kickaha]

And paying $300 for some old-model Konis is a worthy upgrade -- spending twice the value of the bike in Öhlins is nonsense.

Depends entirely on the bike, how long you're keeping it etc, later this year I will be spending 3 times the purchase price of one of my bikes on Ohlins, but I doubt that bike will ever get sold

[pete376403]

Can you still get konis? I thought they got out of the bike market and sold the tooling to someone else who now makets them as Ikon.

The Konis I put on the GS1100 (a long time ago) replacing the standard air-assisted screen door closers made a definite improvement

[98tls]

Can you still get konis? I thought they got out of the bike market and sold the tooling to someone else who now makets them as Ikon.

The Konis I put on the GS1100 (a long time ago) replacing the standard air-assisted screen door closers made a definite improvement Hagon took it on if memory serves me right.

[Kickaha]

Can you still get konis? I thought they got out of the bike market and sold the tooling to someone else who now makets them as Ikon.


Koni no longer do Motorbike shocks, they do car/ truck and maybe some others

[KiwiRat]

Can you still get konis? I thought they got out of the bike market and sold the tooling to someone else who now makets them as Ikon.

That's right. Ikon is owned by Proven Products, and is based in Sydney. I'd rate them above Hagon shocks, but well below Ohlins, WP, Penske.

I would rate Ohlins above WP. They may well be similar performance wise, (Robert, I can be corrected if wrong) but Ohlins has a better pricing strategy.

[Robert Taylor]

That's right. Ikon is owned by Proven Products, and is based in Sydney. I'd rate them above Hagon shocks, but well below Ohlins, WP, Penske.

I would rate Ohlins above WP. They may well be similar performance wise, (Robert, I can be corrected if wrong) but Ohlins has a better pricing strategy.

And the biggie. LOCAL BACKUP and knowledge of your product.

[tri boy]

And the biggie. LOCAL BACKUP and knowledge of your product.


Amen to that.
Robert, have you had any feedback about the "YSS" brand of shocks out of Asia yet? They seem to be building a bit of a following overseas, but i don't think NZ has a dealer yet.

[Robert Taylor]

Amen to that.
Robert, have you had any feedback about the "YSS" brand of shocks out of Asia yet? They seem to be building a bit of a following overseas, but i don't think NZ has a dealer yet.

Yes indeed I have, there are reports of issues with shaft chrome quality. This is from a source overseas that has an excellent engineering background.

[jrandom]

the springs they came with didn't sag at all with me sitting on it...

... and you decided that from that moment forward, you would embark upon a pie-based campaign to remedy the situation?

[tri boy]

Referring to the YSS brand of suspension, I was flamed severely on a UK based site because I dared to question the quality of what I saw as an inferior product, (made in a small assembly factory in Asia by unknown skilled workers).
The main reason riders were fitting these shocks was that they were 1/2 the cost of reputable brands like Ohlins, WP etc

Wonder how their shocks are lasting.:shifty:
Both of my Ohlins kitted bikes have had zero problems.:woohoo:

[Robert Taylor]

Referring to the YSS brand of suspension, I was flamed severely on a UK based site because I dared to question the quality of what I saw as an inferior product, (made in a small assembly factory in Asia by unknown skilled workers).
The main reason riders were fitting these shocks was that they were 1/2 the cost of reputable brands like Ohlins, WP etc

Wonder how their shocks are lasting.:shifty:
Both of my Ohlins kitted bikes have had zero problems.:woohoo:

Yes, cheapness comes at a price!!!!!!

[Maido]

Had a rep in this morning with a YSS catalogue.....

[Robert Taylor]

Had a rep in this morning with a YSS catalogue.....

And do they have a service department fully trained with all the equipment the full spares back up, comprehensive warranty etc etc?

[FROSTY]

I think the point made about $300 shocks is a valid one.
Strokes for folks I feel.
A bloke with a $1500 commuter is likely to be really happy with a $300 replacement set for his leaky 15year old OEM unit (s)
Yea no question the mechanically "best" solution will be a penske/ohlins/white power.
Would that be value for money in that application--Id suggest no

[xwhatsit]

And do they have a service department fully trained with all the equipment the full spares back up, comprehensive warranty etc etc?
It's a different market sector. People buy these for the same reason they buy Fasta Pasta instead of going to a $40-main Italian restaurant complete with snooty maître d'.

I'd buy some twin-shocks for a couple of hundred, leave the springs and everything stock, chuck them on a commuter, ignore them for a few years and then if they felt shit, chuck a new set on. I don't think anybody's looking to put them on a GSXR1000 and expect to piss on everybody else doing the Coro GP.

I know you've got a lot of pride in your Öhlins and the work you do (justifiably so), but it's not the solution to everything. There's more than just one market segment in motorcycling.

[Robert Taylor]

It's a different market sector. People buy these for the same reason they buy Fasta Pasta instead of going to a $40-main Italian restaurant complete with snooty maître d'.

I'd buy some twin-shocks for a couple of hundred, leave the springs and everything stock, chuck them on a commuter, ignore them for a few years and then if they felt shit, chuck a new set on. I don't think anybody's looking to put them on a GSXR1000 and expect to piss on everybody else doing the Coro GP.

I know you've got a lot of pride in your Öhlins and the work you do (justifiably so), but it's not the solution to everything. There's more than just one market segment in motorcycling.

I absolutely agree that there are other sectors of the market and to an extent we ourselves have got much of the middle sector catered for with Race Tech up-specs. Im just reinforcing that you wont expect much with the budget shocks, in terms of performance, backup and in fact the ability to absorb bumps as well as higher price suspension will. There is a reason for the pricing at that end, as much as there is a reason at the high end.

[Maido]

And do they have a service department fully trained with all the equipment the full spares back up, comprehensive warranty etc etc?

don't think so, just interesting that they showed up an hour before reading this thread cos I hadn't really heard too much about them before.
The build quality suggests that you get what you pay for.

[JimBob]

I absolutely agree that there are other sectors of the market and to an extent we ourselves have got much of the middle sector catered for with Race Tech up-specs. Im just reinforcing that you wont expect much with the budget shocks, in terms of performance, backup and in fact the ability to absorb bumps as well as higher price suspension will. There is a reason for the pricing at that end, as much as there is a reason at the high end.
I dont think anyone is expecting Ohlins performance for $300
The point is, if you dont need Ohlins performance, and if the budget shocks fufill your requirements, then doesnt it make sense to use them rather than high dollar Ohlins?

[Bonez]

I dont think anyone is expecting Ohlins performance for $300
The point is, if you dont need Ohlins performance, and if the budget shocks fufill your requirements, then doesnt it make sense to use them rather than high dollar Ohlins?

BINGO!!

20,000kms and rising on $150 MDIs on ALL sorts of road conditions. It appears I've got my moneys worth. Haven't needed a ciropractor yet.

If your shocks are totally knackered budget shocks can be used as a temporary measure to keep your bike rolling untill you have the money set aside for premium brand items, if thats what you want. Also handy also if you need to send the premium brand items for repair etc.

Ikon website- http://www.ikonsuspension.com/

You can PM RT if you need Ohlins.

Other options here- http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=67230

[Kickaha]

20,000kms and rising on $150 MDIs on ALL sorts of road conditions. It appears I've got my moneys worth. Haven't needed a ciropractor yet.


I bought a bike fitted with MDIs and I think having a solid metal rod fited instead would give me a softer spring rate

[Bonez]

I bought a bike fitted with MDIs and I think having a solid metal rod fited instead would give me a softer spring rateYou do know you can swap out the springs don't you?

[Robert Taylor]

You do know you can swap out the springs don't you?

The poor ride compliance has as much to do with the internal check plate hydraulics. You only get what you pay for.

[Kickaha]

You do know you can swap out the springs don't you?

I do

I also know that if the owner who replaced the shocks had bought a decent brand I wouldn't have to

[JimBob]

I do

I also know that if the owner who replaced the shocks had bought a decent brand I wouldn't have to

Its not really a brand problem. Any shock, including Ohlins, with the incorrect spring and setup can be as bad.
The previous owner probably had different requirements to you. Or maybe he wasnt a suspension connoisseur so didnt actually care and didnt see it as a problem.

[Kickaha]

Its not really a brand problem. Any shock, including Ohlins, with the incorrect spring and setup can be as bad.

Quite right,but the other cheaper brand I have had experience with was Hagon and they were the same


The previous owner probably had different requirements to you. Or maybe he wasnt a suspension connoisseur so didnt actually care and didnt see it as a problem.

Maybe he was fat cunt and they were sprung right for him :lol:

[BM-GS]

Lots of good wrds in this thread, the most appropriate will be different for differnt people.

There's lots of trashing of Hagon shocks going on, but I got a new one to replace the 40,000km one on a ZZR-600 and it made a huge difference for the better. I'm never going to set lap records, but it had far better damping (not sure if it had more damping cos there was actually oil in it, or less damping because the oil wasn't lumpy, but it was better damping) and stopped the sidestand dragging in corners, with the wife on board.

Later, I swapped both ends of a BMW for Ohlins and was again astounded by the change, once set up properly (and each tweak made a difference). Also pleased by the fact I could ride for 20,000km and just spend a fraction of the replacement price on a rebuild to get that same feeling all over again!

IIRC, the Ohlins shocks were cheaper than the BMW ones...

So, going from shagged, not-great-when-new OE to a new aftermarket cheapie will probably be an improvement, but for how long? How long will you keep the bike?

Pay yer money, take yer choice.

[worzal07]

After starting this thread in the first place, I thought it was time to reply.The comments made by Robert about my $400 Hagons choking off hydraulically & causing the harshness in ride,I decided that buying some new Ohlins for the cruiser was the way to go.After a quick call to Robert & a quoted price of $1,000 (which I thought was very reasonable when compared to some Hagon Nitros),I received & fitted them a couple of weeks later.The difference was noticed immmediately.No more harshness,a huge improvement in ride comfort & very sharp handling also.What surprised me was the way the quickened up the steering,making the bike handle more like a sport bike.I like it.Sporty handling & cruiser comfort can be obtained with QUALITY shocks.I'm very glad I chose Ohlins.THANX Robert.

[Pussy]

After starting this thread in the first place, I thought it was time to reply.The comments made by Robert about my $400 Hagons choking off hydraulically & causing the harshness in ride,I decided that buying some new Ohlins for the cruiser was the way to go.After a quick call to Robert & a quoted price of $1,000 (which I thought was very reasonable when compared to some Hagon Nitros),I received & fitted them a couple of weeks later.The difference was noticed immmediately.No more harshness,a huge improvement in ride comfort & very sharp handling also.What surprised me was the way the quickened up the steering,making the bike handle more like a sport bike.I like it.Sporty handling & cruiser comfort can be obtained with QUALITY shocks.I'm very glad I chose Ohlins.THANX Robert.

It's an easy decision once you've experienced them, isn't it? It's generally the first mod I do to any new bike I get nowadays