Duc 999 -- Booo

[justsomeguy]

Saw a guy riding a red Ducy 999 today............. thought it looked like :sick: compared to the 996.....................


Seems like Ducy have toned down - grown up. What is happening?


Thats the way I feel

Those who disagree bring on the :ar15:

[John]

If its red an steamy... I ride it... (the bike)

Personaly I preferr the 996 myself, But i'm a pessamist (hmm, nice word use?), I saw a 999 today, and I after inspection would offically hit that... throttle..

[Two Smoker]

the new 999 doesnt have the vertical slits next to the headlight and looks far more toned down and better....

[WINJA]

I THINK THE 999 IS A WORK OF ART. THE DESIGNER OF THE 916 IS A DIFFERENT GUY, A LOT OF DUCATI LOVERS AGREE WITH YOU . BUT HEY THE SHAPE MIGHT GROW ON YOU LIKE A TLR1000 .THE ONLY THING I DONT LIKE ABOUT THEM IS THE LACK OF POWER AND PRICE

[James Deuce]

The 999 is an excreble mound of post industrial rubbish that had been bastardised by attempting to include current "Edge" styling cues.

Rather than growing on me, seeing a 999R in the flesh made me realise I was right the first time. It does look like an accident involving a garage door.

Have a look at an MV4 or Brutale. Then have a look at a 999. That's right. You can't. You're instantly struck blind by the visually poisoned pile of wildebeast poo created by that Sth African with the francaise name.

Whom do you prefer? Tamburini or Terblanche (I can't even say his name without feeling sick)? The man who gave us the 916 and MV F4, or the obviously vision impaired crayon scrawling leper who penned such delights as the Multistrada and the 999/749?

I'll bet you a 916 is worth more than a 999 in 50 years time.

[sAsLEX]

yeah the new slit free has imprved the looks and the 05 is getting decent power thesedays

[Riff Raff]

:love2: Looks pretty damned sexy to me

[Velox]

I saw a nice one at the Warehouse today - it was $9.99 and it comes in bits with a screwdriver to put it together. Very exciting. There was also the Monster and the 998 (which - I agree, does look way better).

[matthewt]

Jim2 wrapped up how I feel about the 999.

I'd rather have a 916 or pre-99 900SS any day.

[justsomeguy]

Good to see most of you agree with me.

Completely naked bikes are not really my thing, I atleast need the headlight surround. But the Brutale looks great

Take the tear drop light -why not just a simple round thingy like everyone else???

It's these little details that I appreciate the most - and those wheels seem lifted straight off a Ferrari F50 - :cool2:

How do you feel about the Buells Jim2 ?

I reckon the lighting looks pretty cool though I'd personally pick a firebolt as my ride. The black XB12R with amber wheels looks like something the devil would ride.

Matter of fact I have already added one to my "bikes I want to own before I die" list.

[James Deuce]

The Buell XBs are on my "own before death" list too!

You have exquisite taste :)

[Joni]

I like it!!! :D

:whistle:

[MOTOXXX]

i wouldnt kick a 999 outa bed
thats for sure

[vifferman]

The 999 is an excreble mound of post industrial rubbish ... bastardised .... an accident involving a garage door.... instantly struck blind by the visually poisoned pile of wildebeast poo .... obviously vision impaired crayon scrawling leper .So... what you're saying, Jim2, is that you really quite like the 999 then? :spudwhat:

[vifferman]

They may not be as pretty as the 916/996/998, but they're supposed to be a lot better to ride. Besides - you can't see the ugly bits when your sitting on it. :laugh:

[James Deuce]

So... what you're saying, Jim2, is that you really quite like the 999 then? :spudwhat:

Well - If I'm going to spend the best part of $30k (or more) on a bike then I want it to look as good as a V-Rod or, well, your bike for instance. I don't want to have to excuse it's Igor looks by saying it's better to ride than it's older sister. In fact I reckon the 999 qualifies for "butterface" status: everything looks good, "but her face".

[Two Smoker]

Well - If I'm going to speed the best part of $30k (or more) on a bike then I want it to look as good as a V-Rod or, well, your bike for instance. I don't want to have to excuse it's Igor looks by saying it's better to ride than it's older sister. In fact I reckon the 999 qualifies for "butterface" status: everything looks good, "but her face".
and ofcourse there is the 999R which sell for $70k :crazy:

[ajturbo]

i would rather have the naked MV... :love: :love:

[vifferman]

i would rather have the naked MV... :love: :love:I tried that (but not very hard - it foundered when vifferbabe said, "Where do I sit?!?") :buggerd:

[duckman]

I tried that (but not very hard - it foundered when vifferbabe said, "Where do I sit?!?") :buggerd:
"on the couch until I get back" .... :scooter:

[guzzi_nz]

:Oi: MOTO- GUZZI :2thumbsup is my only pick :ride:

[vifferman]

:Oi: MOTO- GUZZI :2thumbsup is my only pick :ride:No! Surely you jest?!?

Well, well - who would've thought...? :eek5: :laugh:

on the couch until I get back" .... :scooter:That sounds good, but what sounded even better was after we test-rode the VifFerraRi, and the vifferbabe said, "I think you should buy it!" :yes:

Which means, effectively that she will be paying for most of it. :2thumbsup
Y'gotta remember too, duckman, that this purchase was the result of a non-committal window-shopping expedition to look at helmets....

[guzzi_nz]

No! Surely you jest?!?

Well, well - who would've thought...? :eek5: :laugh:
That sounds good, but what sounded even better was after we test-rode the VifFerraRi, and the vifferbabe said, "I think you should buy it!" :yes:

Which means, effectively that she will be paying for most of it. :2thumbsup
Y'gotta remember too, duckman, that this purchase was the result of a non-committal window-shopping expedition to look at helmets....

:( Havent work out how to get mrs guzzi_nz to pay for a new guzzi :weep:

[vifferman]

:( Havent work out how to get mrs guzzi_nz to pay for a new guzzi :weep:It's quite a complex task/game, involving some, all, or any of the following:

Money
End of year craziness
Misunderstandings
The bus timetable
An obesssion with motorcycles and all things related
A reasonably good marriage
Mental problems
Copious quantities of alcohol
The annual Christmas work do
Stupidity
Prescription poisons
One of the world's most boring jobs
Sleeping in the car
Violence
More alcohol
Recreational drugs
Nightmares
Drug withdrawl
Madness
Family stuff (or is that "stuffed up"?)
An irresponsible friend (now 'ex-friend')
A short 'holiday'
Reconciliation
Madness
Stupidity
Alien abduction and body-snatching
Sex. Lotsa sex.
Pretty paintwork
Chance encounters
A responsible childhood and irresponsible adulthood
An irresponsible childhood and irresponsible adulthood.

It'd probably make a good story, or screenplay, if it wasn't so weird and totally unbelievable.

Perhaps it's all a dream.

Or nightmare.



Or summat....

[Paul in NZ]

Yarghh!

The 999 is a truely ugly mother.... Just another homo cycle....

Mind you... I could be wrong, as owning a Moto Guzzi (and an old Triumph) does subtly shift your perceptions and ruin you for the common breeds.

My Mk2 LeMans is a gentlemans express (has an analogue clock in the instrument panel so it is obviously a true gents bike) and a real mans bike. (says so on the side dunnit)

No queer eye for the straight guy types would dare come near it. It is a wonder to all that behold it... Not like those gay 999 things, ... Hey, 999 is 666 upside down, do you think a 999 would look better upside down?

Paul N

[Daisy Duke]

Ducati's aren't real bikes, they're for guys going through a mid life crisis!

[750Y]

i like them in yellow better... still like the 996 for looks but wouldn't buy a ducati because i don't believe they're good value for money performance-wise, i'm comparing them to a jappa though & i'm sure by the time You threw a set of ohlins forks,shock/steering damper & added some marchesini wheels & brembo brakes you'd be up there in price. I guess You're paying for quality & exclusivity...
i'd buy one if they were under 20k but look at the gsxr1000 which can be had for as little as $17500...bargain any way you wanna look at it & there's only a handful of machines that can compete or better it for outright performance.

[Motoracer]

The new ducati 999s or 749s look great as race bikes I reckon.

As road bikes, I am not too fond of the butt ugly 2 in 1 mirror/indicators. The front looks OK IMO. The rest is still beautiful, specially the arse (although still not as sexy as the MV agusta arse end!!).

The 916/998s and 748s shape I reckon look great from any angle as road or race bikes. :love: They are bloody cheap these days too!!

[**R1**]

I think when it comes to pure sex on wheels the new R1 takes the cake, but then i own an old 1 so i would have to say that. as for the Duc's cant realy say i like any of em. when i was a kid i thought the 916 looked hot! but then i was educated about bikes and realised that unless you spent $100,000 on em they were a slow heap of shit, that cost you an arm and a leg, then once you had one the poor handling would probly cost you an arm and a leg literally:thud:. as for looks i would have to say the 999 looks ok, but then im new school and enjoy modern advancements.

[Cajun]

i like them in yellow better... still like the 996 for looks but wouldn't buy a ducati because i don't believe they're good value for money performance-wise, i'm comparing them to a jappa though & i'm sure by the time You threw a set of ohlins forks,shock/steering damper & added some marchesini wheels & brembo brakes you'd be up there in price. I guess You're paying for quality & exclusivity...
i'd buy one if they were under 20k but look at the gsxr1000 which can be had for as little as $17500...bargain any way you wanna look at it & there's only a handful of machines that can compete or better it for outright performance.
Dave mate any bike in yellow looks better (c:<
I have always wanted a yellow 748, pity i don;t like v twins, ohh hum dc:<
but i agree with ya the gsxr1000 at $17500 is the best bike for ya buck currently, i had not brought the sixxer thats what i would be buying

[**R1**]

i like them in yellow better... still like the 996 for looks but wouldn't buy a ducati because i don't believe they're good value for money performance-wise, i'm comparing them to a jappa though & i'm sure by the time You threw a set of ohlins forks,shock/steering damper & added some marchesini wheels & brembo brakes you'd be up there in price. I guess You're paying for quality & exclusivity...
i'd buy one if they were under 20k but look at the gsxr1000 which can be had for as little as $17500...bargain any way you wanna look at it & there's only a handful of machines that can compete or better it for outright performance.

sometimes ya get what ya pay for. i think in the case of the Duc you get a heap of good donor parts, but still to expensive, in the case of the thou well you are getting a whole lota bike for ya money but i would spend the extra and buy an 04 R1, Dam they look hot and i dont care how much of a suzuki freak some of ya are you cant say a gsxrthou looks hotter than the 04 R1

[Biff]

Are dukes really worth all that money? I also hear they're really unreliable. There's a bike mag in the UK (imaginatively named Bike) that claims to always take two dukes to the tracks when they need to test it (the model) in case one breaks down!

Looks ok - but give me a TNT (to play with) or the MV F4 1000 (to look at) any day.

[James Deuce]

Are dukes really worth all that money? I also hear they're really unreliable. There's a bike mag in the UK (imaginatively named Bike) that claims to always take two dukes to the tracks when they need to test it (the model) in case one breaks down!

Looks ok - but give me a TNT (to play with) or the MV F4 1000 (to look at) any day.
Not unreliable as such, they just need looking after. If you ignore a service interval it will be expensive.

[Hitcher]

Are dukes really worth all that money? I also hear they're really unreliable.
They're not unreliable. Like any Italian bike they just need to be perfectly maintained...

[Motoracer]

sometimes ya get what ya pay for. i think in the case of the Duc you get a heap of good donor parts, but still to expensive, in the case of the thou well you are getting a whole lota bike for ya money but i would spend the extra and buy an 04 R1, Dam they look hot and i dont care how much of a suzuki freak some of ya are you cant say a gsxrthou looks hotter than the 04 R1
Oh yes it does :yes:

http://predator.bikepics.com/pics/suzuki-gsxr1000-05-bikepics-228570.jpg

[slob]

...or the obviously vision impaired crayon scrawling leper who penned such delights as the Multistrada and the 999/749?
True, true, but have you seen the Terblanche-designed Supermono? I reckon that's in the same league as the 916s and MV Augustas.

http://www.motomotivo.it/MONOCIL/Ducati-Supermono.jpg

[**R1**]

Oh yes it does :yes:

http://predator.bikepics.com/pics/suzuki-gsxr1000-05-bikepics-228570.jpg


YUK, and oh my god its blue and white how original.

[Biff]

Dave mate any bike in yellow looks better (c:<
the gsxr1000 at $17500 is the best bike for ya buck currentlybuying

hmmm - that's an immotive one. I could argue all day that a Super Blackbird at $17,995 is the ultimate deal at the moment. Although the Gixxer 1000 is a stonkin machine.

[Cajun]

hmmm - that's an immotive one. I could argue all day that a Super Blackbird at $17,995 is the ultimate deal at the moment. Although the Gixxer 1000 is a stonkin machine.
well how blackbird is good money, but its getting long in in teeth i think, really, i needs a good update.

[Biff]

well how blackbird is good money, but its getting long in in teeth i think, really, i needs a good update.

I doubt you'll see an update now. It had dual braking, oxygen sensors and EFI upgrades about 12 months ago and word on the street is they'll discontiune it in 2006 when Honda brings out a new VFR1200. The 2005 model has been upgraded slightly though.

I'm guessing the only reason you say it's long in the tooth is because it's been around for so long. That's because it's a darned fine bike and as such has been a huge success.

[matthewt]

Are dukes really worth all that money? I also hear they're really unreliable. There's a bike mag in the UK (imaginatively named Bike) that claims to always take two dukes to the tracks when they need to test it (the model) in case one breaks down!

Looks ok - but give me a TNT (to play with) or the MV F4 1000 (to look at) any day.

Bike mag are a bunch of twats.

Modern Italian bikes are reliable. I've done 50,000k's between the 2 MV's I've owned and had no major problems with either of them.

Prior to the TPG investment in Ducati the early 916's probably were a bit on the touchy side. With the TPG money CNC machines were brought to machine the heads rather than relying on Luigi and his mate doing them by hand. This and a number of other improvements helped make the brand far more reliable.

[**R1**]

Bike mag are a bunch of twats.

Modern Italian bikes are reliable. I've done 50,000k's between the 2 MV's I've owned and had no major problems with either of them.

Prior to the TPG investment in Ducati the early 916's probably were a bit on the touchy side. With the TPG money CNC machines were brought to machine the heads rather than relying on Luigi and his mate doing them by hand. This and a number of other improvements helped make the brand far more reliable.

Not so sure about that, you could be right but in the past 2 months i have stopped for 3 Du's i admit 1 was a poor dude had just hoped off going in2 a 65kph down hill right hander doing about 75kph. (could have been the poor handling)(and i took it at 125kph) but the other 2 were reliabilty issues the funny thing is both guys didnt seem to mind or they are just used to it, the first was a 998 that just stopped didnt seize,(electrical???) the other dropped a cam belt or sumthing. the guy said it has done it b4 that was a 996.

[**R1**]

and i forgot to say MV's look all good :first: they way out do duc's for style

[Biff]

I've done 50,000k's between the 2 MV's I've owned and had no major problems with either of them.


When you say "no major problems", I take it that you have had some problems then. Is so what were they?

[James Deuce]

True, true, but have you seen the Terblanche-designed Supermono? I reckon that's in the same league as the 916s and MV Augustas.

http://www.motomotivo.it/MONOCIL/Ducati-Supermono.jpg

Yes I know (I've saved the image btw). That's my favourite "modern" era Ducati. I think there was a bit of influence from the boss in there though, don't you think?

[NC]

Meh,
They look like R2D2 to me.... :blink:

[matthewt]

When you say "no major problems", I take it that you have had some problems then. Is so what were they?

A major problem to me is when I can't ride the bike for ANY reason. So neither of the MV's has been in the shop to be fixed for a fault with the bike and I've never been stranded on the side of the road (except perhaps when I ran out of gas but that's my own dumb fault).

The headlight on my Brutale is being replaced because the reflective material is peeling away on the inside of the headlight. It's being done by the factory next week when it gets serviced. I've had a couple of wear and tear things on the F4 but nothing you wouldn't expect after 35,000k's.

[750Y]

in the case of the thou well you are getting a whole lota bike for ya money but i would spend the extra and buy an 04 R1, Dam they look hot and i dont care how much of a suzuki freak some of ya are you cant say a gsxrthou looks hotter than the 04 R1

mate, i don't worry about the looks, I know it's ugly, but so what! it goes good...

[James Deuce]

Meh,
They look like R2D2 to me.... :blink:Meh, you're a chick and you ride a Honda. :p

[guzzi_nz]

Yarghh!

The 999 is a truely ugly mother.... Just another homo cycle....

Mind you... I could be wrong, as owning a Moto Guzzi (and an old Triumph) does subtly shift your perceptions and ruin you for the common breeds.

My Mk2 LeMans is a gentlemans express (has an analogue clock in the instrument panel so it is obviously a true gents bike) and a real mans bike. (says so on the side dunnit)

No queer eye for the straight guy types would dare come near it. It is a wonder to all that behold it... Not like those gay 999 things, ... Hey, 999 is 666 upside down, do you think a 999 would look better upside down?

Paul N


:Punk: HERE HERE PAUL ....GUZZI FOR LIFE :first:

[idb]

Ducati's aren't real bikes, they're for guys going through a mid life crisis!

Oh....Omigod....it's like you know me!!!!!! :cry: :cry:

[gav]

Oh yes it does :yes:

http://predator.bikepics.com/pics/suzuki-gsxr1000-05-bikepics-228570.jpg

Jeez, that looks hideous!! Is that his blue lunch box on the back? Whats with all the angles and stuff, I'd only seen a side on photo and it looked OK, but that shot is something else (and it aint good :crazy: )

[Bonez]

:Punk: HERE HERE PAUL ....GUZZI FOR LIFE :first: They're ok if you like sitting in a park-ON A PARK BENCH :Pokey:

[Paul in NZ]

They're ok if you like sitting in a park-ON A PARK BENCH :Pokey:

Well the seat is a bit on the (erm) 'firm side' but you need to harden up son....

It's a bloody MANS bike... (says so on the side)

Paul N

LeMANS Mk2

[jrandom]

It's a bloody MANS bike... (says so on the side)

Bah. *I'll* have one the day they figure out how to get the engine in the right way round.

[Bonez]

Well the seat is a bit on the (erm) 'firm side' but you need to harden up son....

It's a bloody MANS bike... (says so on the side)

Paul N

LeMANS Mk2

Lol. Thought I might get a response from you Paul. Good mourning. Bit wet here in Palmy. Got news yesterday that my contract has been extended another 6 months so may have enough "holiday pay" at the end of it to get something a bit "different" to the ol jappers ;). But then again I do know where there's a CX500 bitsa stashed away................................do do do do- you have now entered the twilight zone...........................
:gob:

[Blakamin]

(could have been the poor handling)
Someone else that knows nothing....
worlds fastest bikes video... tested a 'busa, super blackbird, Zsumfin, R1 and a Duc. Duc had lowest HP and top speed... still beat most bikes around the IOM TT track.... the reason Ducs sell is coz they handle, you moron! they dont need the ponies or the top speed coz they consistently go around corners quicker!


as for unreliable, anything is if you dont change oil etc.

Why dont all you people that come up with "I heard" go and ride one!!!!
I've had mine for over 2 months, I ride it everyday.... EVERYDAY! even if, for the last 2 weeks its been at night after work! and it has cost me an oil change and a speedo cable... total... $75!!!!!!!!
It dont stop in the rain... in fact it can sit in the rain for 9 hours and still start first turn... no electrical problems at all... no problems full stop!
again, go ride one before you bag them

[Coyote]

again, go ride one before you bag them
I remember when my dad was about to buy the '95 KX80, I though it looked like a old peice of junk that wouldn't go anywhere and I wanted the '02 KX85 next to it at motomart cause that looked like the better bike.

After racing the KX, I've found out it’s faster than the KX85s. Couldn't be any happier with the bike I though was shit :niceone:

[750Y]

...go ride one before you bag them

you can't escape the brand nazis. their brand is the best don't you know!

[Sensei]

Hey Blakamin . I to have owned a couple of Ducati's & went great . But you try trashing the hell at of one & then see how long they last before bit's start to go wrong .That's what people hear about I believe , Top bike when treated they way it is ment to be . But when pushed hard is when their fault's start to show up . I know broke one of mine . SENSEI :crazy:

[Sensei]

Hey Blakamin . I to have owned a couple of Ducati's & went great . But you try trashing the hell out of one & then see how long they last before bit's start to go wrong .That's what people hear about I believe , Top bike when treated they way it is ment to be . But when pushed hard is when their fault's start to show up . I know broke one of mine . SENSEI :shifty:

[Biff]

I've ridden a 749 and it was a hoot. Great handling, good performance and very "flippable" into tight S bends. But I just couldn't justify spending money on a Duke when you can get what I believe are better bikes for the same if not less money.

It's gotta be a brand thing. People bump their gums all the time about Duke's but you have to admit as far as marketing goes no other bike brand offers the same level of kudos as a Duke.

[**R1**]

Someone else that knows nothing....
worlds fastest bikes video... tested a 'busa, super blackbird, Zsumfin, R1 and a Duc. Duc had lowest HP and top speed... still beat most bikes around the IOM TT track.... the reason Ducs sell is coz they handle, you moron! they dont need the ponies or the top speed coz they consistently go around corners quicker!


as for unreliable, anything is if you dont change oil etc.

Why dont all you people that come up with "I heard" go and ride one!!!!
I've had mine for over 2 months, I ride it everyday.... EVERYDAY! even if, for the last 2 weeks its been at night after work! and it has cost me an oil change and a speedo cable... total... $75!!!!!!!!
It dont stop in the rain... in fact it can sit in the rain for 9 hours and still start first turn... no electrical problems at all... no problems full stop!
again, go ride one before you bag them

I have ridn 1, along with a milli b4 i bought the r1. i Can honestly say i would buy the milli way b4 i would but the duc, i understand you own 1 and u like them or u wouldnt have bought one, and thus have to say they are great and you love them, but ITS ONLY A PERSONAL OPINION :finger: so i have to say YOU are the moron

[**R1**]

mate, i don't worry about the looks, I know it's ugly, but so what! it goes good...
My God someone on here with a good attitude. Nice1 Bro.

[750Y]

lol, & then there's the bike...

[Sensei]

It's a shame that Duke's get a hard time but then again so do alot of other bike's . Abit like those slow fall to bit's R1's tryed one but wouldn't "Peel the skin off a rice pudding"" LOL :Pokey: :bleh: Thought I'd see if I'd get a bite form ya R1Aaron . Have you got any vid's of ya doing some wheelie's would be great to see. Use to do 20k+ one's on my PE400 & YZ490 but not into them on the roady's little powerstands' but nothing longer then a couple of post
SENSEI

[Sensei]

Maybe we should see if some of the wheelie Dude's on here can put up some Pic's or Vid's so we can all check out thier skill's ??

SENSEI

[Blakamin]

I have ridn 1, along with a milli b4 i bought the r1. i Can honestly say i would buy the milli way b4 i would but the duc, i understand you own 1 and u like them or u wouldnt have bought one, and thus have to say they are great and you love them, but ITS ONLY A PERSONAL OPINION :finger: so i have to say YOU are the moron
You're the one that said they dont handle!!!! which is known to be bullshit!


I'm not a brand nazi at all, 750y... I've had a yammy, honda and Duc in the last 6 months alone! not to mention the Z900 of mine that still resides in Oz... but isn't this thread about Ducatis????????

[Ghost Lemur]

Saw a (looked) brand spankers new 999 in town today (while waiting for the bus :crybaby:). Him in his Duc leathers, etc, getting hammered in the tropical downpour, I swear though I could still see a cheesey school boy grin under his helmet.

I'd take one, if given it... Then sell it and buy something I could actually ride, plus some sexy leathers, plus all the other necessary gear, plus have enough left over to take the family on holiday to somewhere that actually has a summer.

:thud: Ok I'm jealous. Looked nice from the side, and had the sexy Duc sound to it. Still prefer the 998 personally.

[750Y]

You're the one that said they dont handle!!!! which is known to be bullshit!


I'm not a brand nazi at all, 750y... I've had a yammy, honda and Duc in the last 6 months alone! not to mention the Z900 of mine that still resides in Oz... but isn't this thread about Ducatis????????

lol,
just take a deep breath...
i wasn't calling You a brand nazis i was sympathising with You.
We all know that Ducati's are top bikes...
take a break

[vifferman]

Ok I'm jealous. Looked nice from the side, and had the sexy Duc sound to it. Still prefer the 998 personally.Yeah, me too, but the 999 is supposed to be a much better bike, even if it doesn't look as purty.

[**R1**]

You're the one that said they dont handle!!!! which is known to be bullshit!


I'm not a brand nazi at all, 750y... I've had a yammy, honda and Duc in the last 6 months alone! not to mention the Z900 of mine that still resides in Oz... but isn't this thread about Ducatis????????
dude :no: i said in my opinion they dont. nuf said.....