Tapered steering head bearings -- worth it?

[xwhatsit]

'Lo,

My front end feels a bit loose. Hit some bumps at around 110kph on the Northern and went into a weave. Steering head bearings no doubt; they get a thrashing (gravel roads, shit suspension -- and today, running too hot into a left hand side road (sleepy), front wheel pushed on some leaves, ran wide and mounted the 45-degree kerb traffic island :innocent:). I know if I tighten them up, I'll notice that they're notchy.

Anyhow, classic 70s tech, ball bearings. I'm told taper bearings do wonders for handling -- are they really all that? I can get new ball bearings for bugger all; taper bearings are going to run me £23 from David Silver (bonus prize if you can find me a cheaper kit). Worth the money? Or stick a new set of balls in?

Do I need special tools to do the bearings at any rate? Haynes starts talking about applying heat, which worries me somewhat. Probably induce some frustration. I don't have `heat', whatever that means. Any kind souls with a garage and some `heat source' want to drink some beer they didn't pay for and help me do it?

Cheers guys.

[Ixion]

Hm

This is a VERY long standing discusion. Some bike are MUCH improvd by taper rollers in the head stock. Some bikes it makes bugger all difference.

Generally, changing is not not trivial. Expect to need access to arc welders and such like .


My own opinion FWIW, is that that a rider is better to focus on improving rider skills, rather than expecting a change from one type of bearing to another to produce wonderful improvement without rider effort.

After all, if using a different type of head stock bearing would produce such an enormous improvement in handling, would not the manufacturer have done that in the first place?

EDIT: However, given the identity of the OP, it may be assumed that all reasonable rider based initatives have already been actioned.In that case, a more rigid headstock may be of advantage. For lesser riders than the Persian gentleman , forget it,

[xwhatsit]

Because it's ancient and they weren't using them back then?

I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not looking for a peg-scraping sort of handling improvement, just a bit more, er, steering stability perhaps. I'm well resigned to the flaws of my motorcycle, forks and swingarm flexing, suspension bottoming out mid-corner and causing pegs to make contact with the ground. Not worried about, just ride around it and enjoy the experience :D

Arc welders? Shite. Thought one would just pull out the balls and shell then drop in the taper bit. I'll show you what I'm talking about -- http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/parts/pattern-parts/part_28287/
<img src=http://www.davidsilverspares.co.uk/graphics/parts/PSSH750.jpg></img>

[xwhatsit]

EDIT: However, given the identity of the OP, it may be assumed that all reasonable rider based initatives have already been actioned.In that case, a more rigid headstock may be of advantage. For lesser riders than the Persian gentleman , forget it,
Ahaha you flatter too much -- we haven't gone for a pootle yet, I want to learn from the master of thrashing old shit :sunny:

EDIT: Looky, here's some on Yahoo Japan. UEDA RACING has got the good shit for 250RSs. Square section swingarms and Keihin CR33s. $60 is a bit much, though. I'm just really convincing myself, aren't I? http://page17.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/v54307170
<img src=http://f19batchimg.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/users/3/3/1/2/uas_jp-imgbatch_1210255066/600x337-2007072200117.jpg></img>

[Ixion]

Yeah, it's the "pulling out the outer race" that's not so easy.

If you can replace ball races with taper rollers , go for it, nobody ever regretted it.

But it won't make bugger all difference to handling except as part of a bigger picture. I think you understand that, most won;t

[xwhatsit]

Ah, cheers. The race being the little `ball cup'? I'll do a bit more research then.

Thanks for the advice. Can't make it handle too good, otherwise I might as well buy an RZ250.

P.S. 6-speed XR250R gearbox and crank/counterbalancer is on its way :D

[xwhatsit]

Oh! I must ask while I'm at it, swingarm bushes! What's the done thing there? Bung in the four-poond-fifty standard ones? Phospher bronze or whatever it is -- merely an improvement in longevity? I can't find any movement in the swingarm on the centre-stand, but if I do them now and grease them nicely then I won't have to worry about them for a long time.

At least the swingarm spindle hasn't seized.

[Kickaha]

Thanks for the advice. Can't make it handle too good, otherwise I might as well buy an RZ250.


I haven't ever found a noticable difference in handling converting bikes to tapered rollers and I have done a few, most sets from a bike shop were about $80

The old bearing races are easy to get out with a long drift, the bearing races from tapered rollers on the other hand are quite often a prize prick to remove

[Taz]

What year is that XR250R gearbox? Thought only the XR250A was compatible with the CB250RS?

[xwhatsit]

What year is that XR250R gearbox? Thought only the XR250A was compatible with the CB250RS?
This would be the pre-RFVC XR250R, 1981/82. Same motor as the earlier XR250s/XL250s, but very slightly modified (until now I didn't know they were any different, look identical from the outside). 6 gears and only one counter-balancer, which is gear driven instead of chain driven (yay! No more of adjusting those pricks!).

Hence needing the crank, too.

NordieBoy (who has done the conversion) thinks maybe I'll need to machine a bit off the inside of the cases too.

@Kickaha -- thanks for the info! So just a long drift and tap out the ball cups. As for putting the tapers in, I'm thinking about using a socket or PVC tube or summat and tap them in gently. May not be a handling difference, but in terms of longevity it should be worth it.

You guys rock. Cheers.

[FROSTY]

$25 for a set of head bearings thatll probably last the lifetime of the bike. (whats left of it) sounds value for money to me.
Now to get the old race out--Yep I agree with kickaha 100%
ya heard the song --"some days are diamonds some days are stone" ? getting head bearings out is a bit like that--some are straightforward some a pain in the arse.
Couple of tips for fitting the tapered bearings.
1)as soon as you get em home bung em in the freezer--next to the frozen peas.leave em there as long as you possibly can--ie Hours/days.
2) clean up your headstock checking for burrs from when you removed the ball race.
3) when fitting the top bearing shell make sure you put it in dead flat.Best way to do it is to use a bearing press.
4)once its all together dont be at all suprised if it all loosens up again after a short while.You usually need to retension em twice.

One advantage of taper roller bearings is you can crank em down a few extra pounds. Making your steering a tadd heavier but acting to a degree as a steering damper.
Whilst yer doing em why not change ya fork oil and check yer front wheel bearings?

[geoffm]

The advantage of rollers is they don't go notchy as quickly as ball bearings. There is no difference if they are both as new.
The bearing sizes are usually oddballs, so no going to SKF and buying drop in replacements - you are stuck with the aftermarket replacements, which are average quality bearings.
As Frosty said, since the front end has to comeo off anyway, strip and clean out the forks. Check the slider bushes for wear and slop.
I used a piece of threaded rod to pull the new bearings into place without mangling them. I also usually field a couple of grooves in the headstock socket so a drift could knock them out later.
A mig welder is the best way of getting old taper roller races out if they don't want to play - a squirt on th inside of the race makes them shrink and they drop out. A sharp chisel or air grinder (Dremel) takes care of the other half.
Should be an easy job.
Geoff

[xwhatsit]

$25 for a set of head bearings thatll probably last the lifetime of the bike. (whats left of it)
What does that mean? Cheeky man! This bike is Grandfather's axe :yes:

I've actually done the forks completely (seals, oil, the works) in November or December or something and the front wheel bearings (and new wheel) a month or two ago. Might pop spacers in the top of the forks though, set the preload. If I can find some springs cheap I'll be happy.

Cheers for the advice everyone. Not $25 though, 23 British pounds plus shipping from David Silver Spares. Anything that reduces maintenance is a plus though, I do cover some reasonable mileage and expect to keep the bike as long as I'm still alive.

Alright, sounds like I can do it then :) Nothing wrong with a bit of education.

Anybody have any thoughts on the swingarm bushings?

[FROSTY]

HMM--Been thinking about this whilst tinkering in the gargre.
If you have a spare frame why not measure up the dimensions of the factory bearings.
The idea being to get a tapered roller bearing with same height and same ID possibly slightly bigger OD. Then get the outer race machined to the correct OD.In the perfect world youll find a bearing at saeco or auckland bearings which is exactly what you want/need -and I bet heaps cheaper than 50 odd bucs

[xwhatsit]

Hey, that's not a silly idea. I keep meaning to do something with the spare frame -- mostly I end up just measuring it for silly things like you say :D

[TygerTung]

I wouldn't bother, just got for new stock ones. My CB has done about 54k and it seems fine, and before it became a race bike it was a farm bike.

Does yours shudder at the front end when cornering HARD? I dunno if it's the tire or forks on mine. You probably only get cornering this HARD on the track though.

[xwhatsit]

I wouldn't bother, just got for new stock ones. My CB has done about 54k and it seems fine, and before it became a race bike it was a farm bike.

Does yours shudder at the front end when cornering HARD? I dunno if it's the tire or forks on mine. You probably only get cornering this HARD on the track though.
Mine tends to wallow and scrape the pegs before it gets pushed hard enough to do that, I think.

Anyway I'm not worried about steering head bearings for a little while now, as it looks like my poor wee RS might be a write-off :crybaby:

[TygerTung]

What did you do to it?

I'm quite impressed with mine at the moment. While not having the performance to play with the faster riders on RD350LC's, it is quick enough to play with the big ducati's and big british bikes in the Pre'82 class. Maybe I need to make it a 350 or a 500 to get it going a bit harder!

[robinm]

Harking back to the original question, you can buy the kits in NZ, any 1/2 pye decent bike shop should be able to source them for you. You will find that it would work out cheaper and defiantly better than replacing with std ones. You shouldn't replace just the balls in the std setup, you MUST also replace the two races in the steering head and the two races on the steering stem, and there lies the expense. Go tapered rollers, you will not regret it.
If your local bike shop says they can not get them, tell them that R2 enterprises should have them.

[Shaun]

ALL BALLS TAPERED BEARINGS

They are supplied through W H WHITE whole salers

[Katman]

ALL BALLS TAPERED BEARINGS

They are supplied through W H WHITE whole salers

Except Whites don't have a listing for the CB250RS.

[FilthyLuka]

Except Whites don't have a listing for the CB250RS.

Surely you could fit tapered steering head bearings with the same dimensions as what would be necessary for the CB250RS? Perhaps honda used the same steering head dimensions on other bikes, who knows.

[FilthyLuka]

ALL BALLS TAPERED BEARINGS


These are sexy awesome :2thumbsup

[Katman]

Surely you could fit tapered steering head bearings with the same dimensions as what would be necessary for the CB250RS? Perhaps honda used the same steering head dimensions on other bikes, who knows.

I think the problem you'd find is that ball bearings plus top and bottom races would be a lot less deep than tapered roller bearings. The dimensions of the steering head housing and the steering shaft would not be the issue.

However, I do know that Honda do a conversion kit for the CX500 so maybe there is one for the CB250RS.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thanks for the advice. Can't make it handle too good, otherwise I might as well buy an RZ250.



Actually mate, an RZ250 has balls and races too, as do most if not ALL 'proper' road race bikes. For road racing application they are better.

[Shaun]

Except Whites don't have a listing for the CB250RS.



If they were givin all the dinensions of the current standard Bearings and Raises, I BET THEY HAVE ONE TO FIT, PARTS man, just needs to think outside the BOX

[Shaun]

Surely you could fit tapered steering head bearings with the same dimensions as what would be necessary for the CB250RS? Perhaps honda used the same steering head dimensions on other bikes, who knows.



To much logic mate

[bungbung]

For road racing application they are better.

Why would balls be better than tapered rollers?

less friction?

[Katman]

If they were givin all the dinensions of the current standard Bearings and Raises, I BET THEY HAVE ONE TO FIT, PARTS man, just needs to think outside the BOX

From my experience the ball bearing races that locate in the steering head housing are usually only about 5mm deep whereas tapered bearing races are usually about 10mm. If the steering head housing only allows a depth of 5mm before the race bottoms out how are you going to fit a 10mm deep race in there?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Why would balls be better than tapered rollers?

less friction?

You've got it. My RS250 Honda was balls/races, as are TZ Yamahas and I'm sure you'll find every Moto GP bike!

[xwhatsit]

I'm not going to be that fussed about looking for a cheap way to get the taper rollers -- David Silver does a kit as I mentioned earlier, it doesn't some inordinately expensive. I need some other bits too, so combined shipping, it'll work out cheap as chips.

Anyway, the bike needs more pressing work after putting my hand through the tank.

BTW: The RZ250 comment was about handling, not taper vs. balls -- I'm not worried about improving handling that much -- if I really wanted to do the whole knee-down thing I'd buy an RZ250 :D

[TygerTung]

What did you do to the bike?!?!!

[tychver]

This is a bit of a thread hijack, but what are the forks like on your CB250RS'?

Mine feel really soft (not that I really have much experience to compare them to), and I had a chat with a guy who collects and races 70s suzuki twins and he also thought they felt a bit soft.

Are they always this soft? Did you modify yours for racing TygerTung? Stiffer springs?

The forks on mine were rebuilt 5 years ago, so I think they may be in decent condition, but I have no idea about the oil level. Sailed through it's WOF though :banana:

Oh, and while I'm at it, has anyone sized up any brake or fork upgrade options for these little babies?

[Robert Taylor]

I haven't ever found a noticable difference in handling converting bikes to tapered rollers and I have done a few, most sets from a bike shop were about $80

The old bearing races are easy to get out with a long drift, the bearing races from tapered rollers on the other hand are quite often a prize prick to remove

I tend to agree and certainly taper roller bearings are a lot less tolerant / a lot more finicky re setup.
The trend in recent years re purchase of headrace bearing sets ( and wheel bearing / swingarm / suspension bushings ) has been who is cheapest? Id be interested to hear in real terms what the longevity of these kits is like as I personally am a little suspect of their quality. Cheapness most often comes at a price.

[Ocean1]

HMM--Been thinking about this whilst tinkering in the gargre.
If you have a spare frame why not measure up the dimensions of the factory bearings.
The idea being to get a tapered roller bearing with same height and same ID possibly slightly bigger OD. Then get the outer race machined to the correct OD.In the perfect world youll find a bearing at saeco or auckland bearings which is exactly what you want/need -and I bet heaps cheaper than 50 odd bucs

Those bearing outers will be fookin' hard, and you're more likely to find nominal OD taper rollers to match the existing bore.


I tend to agree and certainly taper roller bearings are a lot less tolerant / a lot more finicky re setup.
The trend in recent years re purchase of headrace bearing sets ( and wheel bearing / swingarm / suspension bushings ) has been who is cheapest? Id be interested to hear in real terms what the longevity of these kits is like as I personally am a little suspect of their quality. Cheapness most often comes at a price.

I've very rarely come across rolling element bearings of noticeably low quaility, and in the case of taper rollers for that application they're way over-spec'd. By far the most common cause of failure is contamination. Almost every headstock bearing failure I've encountered has been caused by corrosion, but then I used to get wet lots...

[Wired1]

I bought a couple of sets of "All balls" taper steering stem bearings for my SR400 and TT500. The original races on the SR were a bit like the surface of the moon so I figured I may as well go for the taper rollers. Anyway, they arrived the other day and when I opened up the packet I found two bearings and two seals but no indication of what goes where. Why don't they include instructions or even a bloody picture? Their website is even less help.

Now I can see which bearing is the top one and which seal goes with which bearing, but I just want to be sure I put them in the right order and the right way up. I figure the seal goes on first to keep the dust out of the bottom bearing, then the bottom bearing pointing up (the load will be downward right?). The top bearing - should this be pointing down for frame loading? ie both bearings pointing toward each other? and then the top seal is my guess.
I know it's a dumb question but they cost a fair amount and I'll be pissed off if I bugger them up.

[Ocean1]

Correct, btm seal, btm bearing with small-end-of-taper upwards, top bearing with small-end-of-taper down, top seal.

Sometimes for taper rollers there's a different washer under the nut... Did they give you a torque for the nut?

[Wired1]

No torque setting info included - any ideas? otherwise I'll just nip it up until it strips then back half a turn.
The website www.goallballs.com gives the figure of 28-30 foot-pounds for the Honda one so I'll go with that I guess.

[Ocean1]

Sounds a tad high but probably safe.

Get the front wheel off the ground and feel the steering resistance, should be noticable but not more than a one-finger push/pull at the grip.
Important to check it again after a good ride.

Oh, grease, fill the whole head cavity with a good quality water-resistant grease befor you fit the top bearing.

[xwhatsit]

So anyway I'm finally getting around to buying this stuff. I've been getting by with tightening up the old worn ones but they're pretty shagged and I need to get on with it.

The kit is called SSH750. Cheapest I've found is David Silver Spares, even though they just put the price up to 27 pounds -- bastards! So I'll probably order from them.

But I wondered, upon doing a quick Google for `SSH750', that given that the specs of the bearings are all over the place, do I have enough information to go down to Saeco et al and give them these numbers and they can give me what I need?

SSH750* 26 x 48.5 x 15.2mm 30 x 50 x 14.4mm

Actually on another site I got this:

SSH750 Upper 48.5x26x15mm Lower 50x30x14.5mm

Slightly different but is it close enough (15.2mm vs 15mm, 14.5mm vs 14.4mm)?

The other thing is, either way, these don't come with the bottom dust seal usually do they. I've heard people referring to reusing the existing seal but I dunno if it'll be OK after a quarter of a century. Will this be a standard sort of seal I can pick up from other places? Will the official Honda seal (providing I can get it) work with tapered bearings considering the original bearings are ball bearings?

Sorry for all the silly questions, I find it a bit confusing, haven't really delved inside that area of my bike before.

Oh yeah, I'm going to do the swingarm bushings while I'm at it. They're going to be a bitch to get out, aren't they :D

[Wired1]

Yes the swing arm bearings or bushes are a bitch to get out. I've done both the roller ones and the straight plastic or nylon type and they all suck majorly if there has been any water in there. I've also done a few sets of steering head tapered rollers on my SR400 and an XV750 and there isn't any where else to get them. I've got a mate who works at SKF and they can't get an equivalent so you're probably buggered. As a rule I buy from the UK before the US because the shipping is way cheaper. Not sure why, but it's a fraction of the cost to send something to the US than to receive something from there - bastards.

[Ocean1]

do I have enough information to go down to Saeco et al and give them these numbers and they can give me what I need?

SSH750* 26 x 48.5 x 15.2mm 30 x 50 x 14.4mm

Actually on another site I got this:

SSH750 Upper 48.5x26x15mm Lower 50x30x14.5mm

Slightly different but is it close enough (15.2mm vs 15mm, 14.5mm vs 14.4mm)?

Worth a try. I can check tomorrow for you to see if they're a common spec' or not but either Saeco or SKF could tell you over the phone from those dimensions.

And the discrepancies are in thickness, a few degrees more or less turn on the nut'll deal with it.


Will this be a standard sort of seal I can pick up from other places? Will the official Honda seal (providing I can get it) work with tapered bearings considering the original bearings are ball bearings?

Probably, get the OD/ID/thickness and ask the bearing dudes, unlikely to be so weird as to be impossible to get.

[xwhatsit]

Yes the swing arm bearings or bushes are a bitch to get out. I've done both the roller ones and the straight plastic or nylon type and they all suck majorly if there has been any water in there. I've also done a few sets of steering head tapered rollers on my SR400 and an XV750 and there isn't any where else to get them. I've got a mate who works at SKF and they can't get an equivalent so you're probably buggered. As a rule I buy from the UK before the US because the shipping is way cheaper. Not sure why, but it's a fraction of the cost to send something to the US than to receive something from there - bastards.
Oh right -- that's what I suspected but not what I wanted to hear haha. I don't have any play in them yet (that I can see with my eye at least), but I figured it'd probably be better to do them before there is any trouble with them which would be a result of water or crap being in there.

Yes, shipping from David Silver seems to be very cheap, at least according to Magua who's bought a lot of bits for his CB400N.

Worth a try. I can check tomorrow for you to see if they're a common spec' or not but either Saeco or SKF could tell you over the phone from those dimensions.

And the discrepancies are in thickness, a few degrees more or less turn on the nut'll deal with it.



Probably, get the OD/ID/thickness and ask the bearing dudes, unlikely to be so weird as to be impossible to get.
I'll give them a call then if that's all the numbers I need. However on looking at pictures like this: http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1503 it seems there's some sort of washer as well. Hah. Some sort of spacer perhaps? As I have no numbers maybe I'm just better off buying the kit :sweatdrop

Thanks for all the advice and help.

[Ocean1]

I'll give them a call then if that's all the numbers I need. However on looking at pictures like this: http://www.z1enterprises.com/detail.aspx?ID=1503 it seems there's some sort of washer as well. Hah. Some sort of spacer perhaps? As I have no numbers maybe I'm just better off buying the kit :sweatdrop

Thanks for all the advice and help.

Bearing dudes will tell you what the bearing designation is for those dimensions, if they've got 'em. The washer's just that, needed to spread the load over the top bearing inner top face. Possibly also to account for differences in overall dimensions between the taper rollers and the OE units.

The kit price ain't bad but I'd expect local bearing dude to do better if he's got them on the shelf. Easy enough to make the washer if the bearings turn out to be available locally.

[xwhatsit]

Won't the thickness be important of the washer though? Or will I just take up the slack when I torque the nut?

[Ocean1]

Won't the thickness be important of the washer though? Or will I just take up the slack when I torque the nut?

You need a heavy-ish washer under the nut. Whether you buy the kit or not I'd assemble the bearings onto the stem and fit it into the head.

Look at the stem thread, does it extend down to the top bearing? Put the nut on and do it up finger tight, is it touching the bearing or bottoming out on the top of the stem? That will tell you what you need by way of washer thickness.

[xwhatsit]

Ah thank-you, I think I'm beginning to understand the picture now. Cheers for taking the time to explain things slowly :)

I'll make a couple of phone calls tomorrow then.

[Max Preload]

You need a heavy-ish washer under the nut. Whether you buy the kit or not I'd assemble the bearings onto the stem and fit it into the head.

Look at the stem thread, does it extend down to the top bearing? Put the nut on and do it up finger tight, is it touching the bearing or bottoming out on the top of the stem? That will tell you what you need by way of washer thickness.

If you're doing it like this you also need to factor in the thickness of the top triple clamp where the nut flange meets it.

You'll usually be ok with slightly deeper bearing assemblies, but those diameters don't match anything in my SKF general catalogue for taper roller bearings. You can probably sleeve the cup seats down to the right size and the stem up to the right size but thats more hassle than it's worth.

[Pixie]

So anyway I'm finally getting around to buying this stuff. I've been getting by with tightening up the old worn ones but they're pretty shagged and I need to get on with it.

The kit is called SSH750. Cheapest I've found is David Silver Spares, even though they just put the price up to 27 pounds -- bastards! So I'll probably order from them.

But I wondered, upon doing a quick Google for `SSH750', that given that the specs of the bearings are all over the place, do I have enough information to go down to Saeco et al and give them these numbers and they can give me what I need?

SSH750* 26 x 48.5 x 15.2mm 30 x 50 x 14.4mm

Actually on another site I got this:

SSH750 Upper 48.5x26x15mm Lower 50x30x14.5mm

Slightly different but is it close enough (15.2mm vs 15mm, 14.5mm vs 14.4mm)?

The other thing is, either way, these don't come with the bottom dust seal usually do they. I've heard people referring to reusing the existing seal but I dunno if it'll be OK after a quarter of a century. Will this be a standard sort of seal I can pick up from other places? Will the official Honda seal (providing I can get it) work with tapered bearings considering the original bearings are ball bearings?

Sorry for all the silly questions, I find it a bit confusing, haven't really delved inside that area of my bike before.

Oh yeah, I'm going to do the swingarm bushings while I'm at it. They're going to be a bitch to get out, aren't they :D

Try Bearing Supplies Ltd 09 837 5779

They bought out A&E bearings who were very bike friendly.

I bought steering head bearings for the bandit and they were able to supply the seal as well.

As for correct tension,I've seen 2 techniques descibed in bike manufacturers manuals:

1.Torque the nut up to a set value and back off a fixed amount.

2.Torque the nut up till the initial movement with the wheel raised off requires a certain force to initiate - measured with a spring balance.In the case of the bandit around 1 kg on the end of the handlebars

[xwhatsit]

I ended up ordering the SSH750 set from David Silver, they had the seal as well. Saeco didn't have an appropriate size when I rang up.

In my Haynes it's particularly vague with the ball bearings (which are even more important about torque, no?), saying that while the steering shouldn't flop from side to side, it should have some resistance with the wheel off the ground. Nice :D In any case it's got one of those funny nuts you do with a C-spanner, so I'm not sure how I could get my torque wrench in there anyway.

[FROSTY]

Dude if ya want help setting the head bearings come see me Ill sort it for ya.
Im pretty sure you have already been told the big thing with head bearings is that they get a notch or probably best said as a dent when in the straight ahead position.
You feel it as a definite clunk as you turn the steering away from the fore/aft position in either sirection.

When fitting tapered roller front bearings Id fit them. Crank them down so there is slight resistance to turning. Ride the bike for 200km then reset the bearings--they tend to settle a little.

If planning to replace the swing arm bearings I would start NOW using penatrating oil to start loosening up the bearing shells.

One last thing. To make the job easier fitting SH bearings I throw the bearing in the freezer as soon as it arrives.leave it in there a day or two.

[xwhatsit]

All right! My old man was in the country so I flogged him to help me with it.

Did the fork seals while we were at it.

That freezer trick made my life very easy, although had to wait for the bottom bearing (not the cup) that fits on the stem to warm up as it's an outside fit, not an inside fit.

Now the first problem was there was no seal with the kit, and the seal I'd bought, while it fit under the old ball-bearing cone on the stem, it didn't fit under the spacer and taper bearing that we fit in its place. Because the spacer (and bearing) is so wide, it would mean the rubber seal would be inbetween it and the bottom of the stem where the bearing/spacer is supposed to seat. However by twisting the seal so it was sitting upright instead of flat it sort of fit around. I'm going to get hold of David Silver and ask them if there's a seal designed for the kit they know of.

The other problem manifested itself only after a slightly longer ride into Onehunga and back. Whilst it feels very nice chucking through corners and on the motorway, it has a `rolling' motion at slow speeds and especially when using the front brakes around 20kph. The Haynes manual says this is due to overtight steering head bearings. There is a little drag on the steering movement right now -- should I wait and cover some kms first to see if it settles, or should I back the tension off ASAP? Is there anything else I should look at? It's a slow side-to-side rolling motion, not a wobble or anything else.

Thanks everybody.

[Ocean1]

Good work. And yes a touch too much drag in the head can cause the weave thing. I'd ease the pressure off the nut a metric smidgeon, it might settle but it sounds a tad too tight.

[xwhatsit]

I did 70 kilometres communting to work and back tonight and it seems better but it's still there. Also wants to pull to the right when I take my hands off the bars, which it didn't do before (at least with this set of forks, they're straight as far as I know) so I'll back off all the nuts and bolts and retighten in order. I'll leave the mudguard off as it's slightly warped and having it on while I do things up could be pulling them out of line.

We'll get there!

It's nice to be able to cruise at 115kph (so far as you can call that cruising on a 250 single) without it wanting to wobble like an H2.

[xwhatsit]

I backed off the bearing load a little and it's improved things. Could probably do with just a touch more un-doing though.

The veering to one side I corrected almost entirely by putting the front wheel between my knees and twisting the bars. The wheel still wants to flop to one side or another at low speeds when I let go of the bars but I'm putting that down to having the forks all the way up, instead of dropped down slightly (so quite a bit more trail/rake than I used to have).

Will see how things go over the next few hundred kilometres.

Certainly when I corner hard everything seems much more planted.