The kiwi can-do attitude. Is it dead? [Archive]

Nade

18th May 2008, 21:52

Im by no means an 'old' bugger:baby:...im only 33...still quite young.....but I have of late been asking myself whats happened to the 'can do' attitude of kiwi's? :shutup:Is it just that the technology of todays 'boys toys' (no offence to the chickys) has out growen the ability of the average kiwi male/ female? or have people just gotten lazy...or growen too complacent and the 'she'll be right theres a mechanic down the road who can fix it' etc etc??:Pokey:
When I was growing up in country NZ if you broke it you tried to fix it or if it was really buggered then you took it to someone to fix......alot of guys I grew up with learned skills from their fathers...grandfathers..uncles etc and were able to fix most things.:doctor: Making gaskets....rebuilding engines...welding...even simple things like fixing a punture or changing the oil and doing a service. Im personally amazed at the people who pay someone else to change a filter..the oil...the plugs (although sometimes not having the tools can be a bastard):yeah: and paying a premium for labour. Admitidly cars today require computers to diagnose problems etc but still an oil change and a new set of plugs should NOT be a problem for a budding bike enthusiast.
Im no mechanic...and I am reasonably mechanically minded so I have the ability to pull something apart and rebuild it (with the help of a manual in most cases)....but what I see of late is the 'younger' generation paying to have their toys rebuilt...modified..serviced etc and paying huge prices.:doh: I started out with cars before moving to bikes and if I wanted to increase the horsepower I went out and bought a set of new pistions/ cam/ carbs/ injection/ blower etc and spent time doing the work myself with a bit of help and few questions to those in the know. Same with bikes....the more I rode the more I learned as to how to service and repair. Is the kiwi 'can do' culture coming to an end? Is it moving to something new? im presuming its just the evolution works but im saddened at the loss of skills that the average kiwi male seems to be exibiting of late...or is it just me?????:brick:

rudolph

18th May 2008, 21:56

It seems cheeper and easyer to just throw it away now:no:

PirateJafa

18th May 2008, 22:04

Wall of Text

Evidently you're never been to a SMC Friday Fix-it Night. :headbang:

sefer

18th May 2008, 22:04

When I was growing up in country NZ if you broke it you tried to fix it broke something else on it that was fine, tried to fix that too, got pissed off with it, or if it was really buggered then you took it to someone to fix......

I added in a couple of steps you forgot :)

Personally I do most things myself, but there are some things that once I've finished them I realise that in the end I would have rather paid the $100 or so dollars for the labour and not worried with the hassle and time it took. So I can't really find fault with someone just dropping their car/bike off and getting it all done for them.

Swoop

18th May 2008, 22:08

It seems cheeper and easyer to just throw it away now:no:
That is very close to the DMNTD school of motorcycle maintenance.
"Tyres look a bit flat. Shall I check the pressure or just sell the bike? Where did I leave the keys and the ownership parers?"

jrandom

18th May 2008, 22:08

I bill more per hour for contract work than I pay professional mechanics per hour to work on my bike.

Taking it to the shop when something needs doing is therefore a no-brainer.

If economics dictated it, I'd learn what I needed to know and do the work myself.

Of course, motorcycles are interesting, so I'd learn more about fixing them if I had the time, but I don't have the time.

Maybe one day.

Nade

18th May 2008, 22:11

I added in a couple of steps you forgot :)

Personally I do most things myself, but there are some things that once I've finished them I realise that in the end I would have rather paid the $100 or so dollars for the labour and not worried with the hassle and time it took. So I can't really find fault with someone just dropping their car/bike off and getting it all done for them.

so your saying your time is too valuable??? or its easier to pay them to do it and save the hassel and be $100 out of pocket???? no offence just interested in peoples views. Im just trying to gauge peoples mentallity....i am aware of the fact that people would rather pay to have something done than 'waste' their own time doing it them selves.....I mean agreed doing it yourself can take longer than paying for it to be done..........:niceone:

MaxB

18th May 2008, 22:14

Talked about this very same thing yesterday to a mate who is into HSV's.(sad but true). He reckons the employment contracts acts has stuffed NZ. Longer hours for the same pay means no time to fix anything or learn how. If you need family time you have got to pay someone to do the vehicle stuff for you. Plus the dads don't spend as much time with their kids, so no role models. Throw in a record divorce rate and a handout society and you have heaps of leaderless kids.

My mate pays for his HSVs by doing the work himself but sadly he sold his last bike this month. No time for both.

I reckon the DIY culture is slowly dying piece by piece.

homer

18th May 2008, 22:17

James Deuce

18th May 2008, 22:26

I've replaced my "can do" attitude with a "get fucked" attitude.

It keeps the noise down.

nallac

18th May 2008, 22:30

shit i try to do what i can,
wether its building around the house, plumbing, wireing or services on the missus car my bike.
But ya gotta draw the line on some things,like the ones that you no nothing about or if you fuckup and its going to cost twice as much to fix.

Blackshear

18th May 2008, 22:30

Well. I used to potter around on the NZ mountain bike forums of Vorb.co.nz, and anyone there who remembered 'Blackshear', would slap their forehead in frustration.
I buy this pushbike for 1300$. A few parts later, not installing a pedal properly cost me 200$. Fucking Aluminium. A few bottom bearings later, another 200$. Got one done by the bike store. 150$. Tried changing my front pads, rooted the piston. not skimping on crappy cheap brakes, another 200$. About 5 rims, a couple didn't fit properly, blah blah. About 3 rear hubs, and about 4 rear tyres. Close to 500$.
When I took it in for a service, they quoted me 1000$ for swingarm bearings, fork seals, chain, cassette, back brakes, bottom bearing creaking and god damn, so much more.
Money wasn't so much an issue. I liked getting my hands dirty, and to actually learn something. I know people who have actually asked 'But how do you get the tyre off the rim? It's smaller than the rim!'.
I feel good knowing it's almost the only thing I can fix without breaking something, again :2thumbsup
But I gave up on the pushbike, hindered my REAL savings!

So I bought a motorbike. I guess it can't do 2 metre dropoffs or blat around woodhill, but from the year I had the pushbike from my 17th birthday, may 22nd, till now. It cost a damn fortune.

Before I actually completely rant off, time and money is relative =)
A little bit of time here and there, a bit of needless money spending here and there for the mistakes whilst learning, you do slowly build up the know-how.

I enjoyed working on mah pushy =) enjoyed riding it. Just bought the wrong one.

Cable ties, how long do you think they'll last for, in this world?
What will replace them :blink:
Blah tired, rant structure awful, can't think straight. NIGHT!

Ixion

18th May 2008, 22:33

My father's philosophy was simple. "If you can't fix it, you can't ride/drive/use it".

My first bike came in a number of wooden boxes. "Bike. Your's if you get it going. Don't expect any help". I did get it going. I was 10 years old at the time. (He did help a bit though)

First car "Traded in an Austin 10 for a fiver. Not going. Yours if you get it going". I did (though I would not have believed there could be so many things wrong with one car)

Was in my early twenties before I actually realised that some people DIDN'T fix their own cars/bikes/washing machines/TVs etc.

Nowdays I'll farm some stuff out, because some things (like changing tyres) are just so much easier with the special gear, and it's not cost effective to buy it. Other things like a oil change on the car because I am grown old and fat and lazy and I don't have an apprentice to abuse and set to do such basic stuff.

When I retire I will go back to doing all my own.

But you are right, it's a dying attitude.How many young men (say up to 40 years old) nowdays could erect a shed, add a room to the house, wire it up, strip and replace an engine etc. Even so basic a task as painting, or wallpapering. Even Mrs Ixion can paint and wall paper. So few people are willing to give things a go.

terbang

18th May 2008, 22:35

A century ago if one of your farm implements broke you had to send a letter to the motherland in Europe to order a new part. The letter took six months to get there after a weeks drive into town to post it and the part took even longer. The difficulties of living dunnunder I guess. As a result the Kiwi can do, Kiwi ingenuity and # 8 wire mentality came about. Now its an E-mail and a fast courier from China.
Yup, in some ways I suppose it is on the way out..

Headbanger

18th May 2008, 22:46

Lets not forget compliance, OSH, ACC.

Besides, my time is worth far more then what I'd pay a mechanic to do the job properly, I just can't take time off work, and I have a family I would rather spend time with.

You may not agree, I fail to care, I'm not spending my weekend making a poor job of something I could have had done for me, resulting in my free time actually being ride time.

I suppose my "Bugger" thread in the cruiser forum covers it for me, The baffle is entirely fixable, Tools aren't an issue, and if I got stuck I could get someone to do it for me in a few minutes, But I'm just going to buy a new one.

Maybe I'm just lazy (stares down at giant belly)

Gubb

18th May 2008, 22:49

A recent experience in which it took three of us a total of three days to replace one Fork Seal kinda put me off attempting that particular task in the future, particularly when it would have only cost $200 to do.

I bought a hunk of junk bike. Thought I would get it running smoothly in no time. Big mistake. But at least when I started pulling things apart I learned a few things at the same time. Is fun too, but only because I don't have a timeframe to have it ready by. I can do it in my own time, with no-one rushing me. If I need something done to my bike, I usually need it done quickly, which I am not capable of, then i'm more than happy to fork out the cash.

awayatc

18th May 2008, 23:01

Of course, motorcycles are interesting, so I'd learn more about fixing them if I had the time, but I don't have the time.

Maybe one day.

An American businessman on holiday in a remote part of the world saw a small fishingboat come back in port early everymorning full of fish.

So he asked the fisherman why he came back so early every day....
F " because I filled her up"
A " why don't you go out again ?"
F " Why would I do that"
A " to make more money off course..."
F " why do I need to make more money ?"
A " So You can buy a bigger boat?"
F " why would I want a bigger boat?"
A " so you make more money"
F " What for ?"
A " To buy more boats, and hire more crew"
F " why would I want to do that ?"
A " so you don't have to work all your life , and can stop working, and you can do whatever you want" says the American exasperated
" Well " says the fisherman, "that's what I am doing right now.....":weird:

But yes unfortunately, the do it yourself culture is disappearing......
we sold our lives to the allmighty dollar, and are a lot poorer for it.... :yeah:

gijoe1313

18th May 2008, 23:19

Hear hear! In some pockets secluded around the place, there is some tinkering, spannering, cursing and yells of victory or the cursing of failure ... having oil grime in your fingernails or skin tells the story of those who do ...

I know some have the will, but not the skills, others pressed for time ... I would rather do everything myself, but there are times when I have left it to the professionals to get it sorted!

Good thread this! :corn:

Thunder 8

18th May 2008, 23:22

Forest

19th May 2008, 07:55

A lot of the parts in modern bike engines simply aren't repairable.

This is the price that we pay for advancements in technology and materials science.

Grahameeboy

19th May 2008, 08:02

I replaced the rear pads yesterday...

HornetBoy

19th May 2008, 08:06

A lot of the parts in modern bike engines simply aren't repairable.

This is the price that we pay for advancements in technology and materials science.

Yep thats probly one of the reasons why the "can do" attitude " in NZ is diminishing quite rapidly,as some of the recent technology on the later bikes is either get it right or your fucked ,why i prefer to stick to carbed bikes actually.

I actually enjoy tinkering and learning through trial and error in terms of fixing the bike and car,if im not riding the bike youll find me in the shed mucking around with chains sprockets bolts etc.
With the bike ,i do all the services myself -valves,carbs all the rest of it ,makes for some long days and sometimes very expensive ones but generally once you get it wrong your clued up for next time (thats if you havent completly buggered the bike ;))

awayatc

19th May 2008, 08:07

I replaced the rear pads yesterday...

So what have you got in the rear now?:whistle:

Swoop

19th May 2008, 08:16

We do, actually, have to blame the schooling system for part of the problem.

The intermediate and high school mentality has been to drive the student into an academic pathway. "Go to university" etc.
If a student was not keen on this, they get ignored.
Until recently there was a common theme of removing the technology block from the high schools. Gone, were metalwork, woodwork, etc.

Some students were actually keen on "trades" and hands-on practical careers. Look at the benefits... A plumber is now one of the highest earning jobs out there!

Grahameeboy

19th May 2008, 08:24

So what have you got in the rear now?:whistle:

Well it slipped in well and had to push a bit and then tighten up....

awayatc

19th May 2008, 08:33

We do, actually, have to blame the schooling system for part of the problem.

Not just a small part either, .....
But most importantly I believe "my" generation has borowed from the future without any regard for anybody or anything other then "making profit" .
Apprenticeships got abolished......and now we are paying for this shortsighted selfishness.
Not many young people are coming through in ANY of the more hands on trades. The ones that didn't want or could go through higher education were left with very few options, and the ones who did joined the plundering racket with great vigor....
So the ones who are good at plundering can't be bothered to do it themselves, and the ones that haven't got the means never got the know how......

Swoop

19th May 2008, 08:36

Apprenticeships got abolished...
All apart from the joinery trade. They never went away from the system and are now watching as the others have had to return to it.

Mikkel

19th May 2008, 08:38

Technology is certainly becomming more and more complex - I'd like to see the 'can-doer' who can fix his/her own cellphone/computer/'pretty anything electronic' if it starts to go tits up.

Modern cars are pretty hard to work on without the correct diagnostics tools - and there isn't any space to do it in either. The 'replacable parts' concept isn't exactly new though, something I reckon we should be grateful for.
Admittedly, bikes are still better than cars in that respect.

Personally I try and do some bits - but there are parts I'm not willing to touch since a fuck-up would be too costly. Besides, good tools are also expensive!

mashman

19th May 2008, 09:28

It's not just the Kiwis. I grew up with a BSA in bits in the kitchen as Dad meticulously cleaned it. It was, as so many of you have alluded to, old technology. Todays tool of choice seems to be the soldering iron and whilst we can all, to a certain extent, do things on the bike, car etc... I can't ever remember my dad farkin about with anything electronic... He encouraged me to take part in what he was doing, be it plumbing, electrics etc... and to that end i'll have a pop at anything...

Personally, I can blame the government, but won't, I can blame technology, but won't, I'd prefer to blame the parents. If we don't have time to "have a go" how the hell can we expect the younger generation i.e. our kids and their mates, to do the same, as this really wasn't something that was taught at school. I know there's more and more variables to that, but we say we spend time with our kids, but all we really do is go to the park or the zoo or do some other form of recreational activity. When all is said and done, it's your choice what you choose to do with your kids... it's your choice as to how you spend your time, whether it be working or playing... it's all about choice... and the majority of us seek pleasure and who can blame us... Having said that though, as the kids get older I may well hunt out some of that older technology and start to spend time with them re-building a car, or bike or something to encourage them to use and develop those skills...

I'm obviously full of shit... but i ain't gonna blame anyone or anything else for my kids lack of confidence/knowledge when it comes to tinkering...

bull

19th May 2008, 09:38

Another possible reason could be the amount of items these days that come with warranty's. They normally have some fine print or a sticker that says if you are not a professional and you open this or that then you void warranty.

Personally i love to have a go and fix things, not always successful but you at least had a go at it. With the help of Riffer here on the forum ive been doing real simple maintenance to my bike that i didnt do to my other brand new bike(Hyosung 250 due to warranty terms) and its been great to see how easy some of the things are to do.

Reality for me is if its under warranty you bloody well get it replaced or repaired by the place you purchased from. If its not then go for gold and see what bodge you can do to get it working. and yes tools are expensive but what a smile it puts on your face when you get one, and then the next and the next - PRICELESS!

Whynot

19th May 2008, 10:07

As a do it yourselfer totally agree. Practical Skills are going out the window and theres a serious shortage of people learning new ones. Having a go and the "fix it with no. 8 wire" was a real kiwi attitude but it seems to be becoming a thing of the past. Obviously not everyone can do but there seems to be way less people willing to try.

I have yet to see anyone "fix" something with no. 8 wire that wasn't just a shitty bodged job. Most of the people who claim they can fix everything just end up making it worse before having to call someone in who actually has a clue ....

Ixion

19th May 2008, 12:47

Lets not forget compliance, OSH, ACC.

Besides, my time is worth far more then what I'd pay a mechanic to do the job properly, I just can't take time off work, and I have a family I would rather spend time with.

...

This is actually somewhat of a red herring. Firstly, those on salary don't get paid more (or less) for more (or less) hours spent. I could argue that instead of doing my own maintainence, I could take on more private work (I charge out at $150 per hour for private stuff), and use the proceeds to pay someone else to do the maintainence.

But that's not a simple trade off. Taking on more work means more stress, more dealines. I'm answerable to someone else, a customer. I usually have to do most or all of it away from home. Doing it involves me in commitments into the future (upgrades etc). And it's more of the same stuff I do all week. So I never get a break, a change of pace.

The $150 an hour is more than I'd have to pay an outsider to do the maintainence. But, consider:

Working on the bike , I'm my own master. i do what I want, when I want. I have no deadlines or commitments other than those I set myself. I do it at home. I can enjoy a beer while I work. or stop and put my feet up. I can knock off any time and join Mrs Ixion for a coffee or glass of wine. She can wander down occasionally, "how is it going dear, oh my you are very dirty, please don't get grease on the carpet AGAIN".

And if it be some task relating to house, building this, painting that, fixing t'other, then she is pleased .And grateful. If I spent the hours that I spend on handyman stuff working for money, she'd never see me. I'm sure she prefers it this way. And, as she says "It keeps me off the streets and out of the pubs". (Oh. Bugger. I never noticed that draw back before!)

Those with children may of course include the bonding experience of father and son mutually bashing each others fingers with hammers. When I was a very small lad, I always "helped" my father - by nailing some pieces of scrap timber together, with a very small hammer and very small blunted nails. I still remember how much pleasure "helping dad" gave me. I hope he also enjoyed it, I like to think he did. A far richer experience than watching dad go off to work to make some more money to pay someone else to do those things.

Ixion

19th May 2008, 12:50

Technology is certainly becomming more and more complex - I'd like to see the 'can-doer' who can fix his/her own cellphone/computer/'pretty anything electronic' if it starts to go tits up.

..

Why? I fixed a busted cell phone over the weekend. The other week, Mrs Ixion's stereo. And one evening this week I will have to fix my lap top which has died to the accompaniment of a ghastly eldritch shriek.

Some electronics is unserviceable. By anyone. That doesn't affect the basic premise. If it CAN be done, I'll do it. or, at any rate , assess the practicality.

Badjelly

19th May 2008, 12:53

Im by no means an 'old' bugger

"Old bugger" is a state of mind really. You sound just like one of the geezers on "Grumpy Old Men". Welcome to the club!

Horse

19th May 2008, 13:47

I fixed my laptop a couple of weeks ago... after I broke it. Had to take it apart to reset the CMOS (only way to do it is it remove the battery), and when I tried to remove the battery the whole battery holder lifted off the motherboard - complete with one of the PCB pads! One new soldering iron with extra-extra-fine tip later, the laptop lived once more, without losing its mind every time I turned it off.

I don't really know my way around engines - but I wouldn't buy a fully made up name-brand PC for the home or office (being self-employed I get to make these decisions) on principle.

Thunder 8

19th May 2008, 15:25

I have yet to see anyone "fix" something with no. 8 wire that wasn't just a shitty bodged job. Most of the people who claim they can fix everything just end up making it worse before having to call someone in who actually has a clue .... :laugh:I Know what you're saying but i did'nt actually mean use no.8 to fix something just the idea of having a go.Can be quite surprising what can be achieved with a little effort.

avgas

19th May 2008, 15:38

Its pretty much a combination of all of the above.
To be honest there is also a negative aspect of the 'can-do' kiwi attitude as well.
I have time and time again seen people NOT bite the bullet to get a professional to do the job because of their own arrogance. I have even become victim to my own self confidence.
The only people that have more can do attitude than NZ is China. And look at the quality that rolls out of there. Makes you think about how the world see's NZ sometimes.
Are we a nation of Innovative Geniuses or one of half arsed "She'll-be-right" yokels?
Its the age old argument - built not bought?
Seen to many cars with chopped springs, poor paint jobs, stick-on tinted windows and rangi welded big bores to say that NZ'rs always get it right.

avgas

19th May 2008, 15:41

I once fixed an fence with No. 8 wire. Next time i will hire a professional fence person. Or shoot the animals.

Ixion

19th May 2008, 16:23

:laugh:I Know what you're saying but i did'nt actually mean use no.8 to fix something just the idea of having a go.Can be quite surprising what can be achieved with a little effort.

Actually , #8 is overrated. #12 is much more useful. #8 just got the rep cos it was universally available, along every road.

Thunder 8

19th May 2008, 16:27

Actually , #8 is overrated. #12 is much more useful. #8 just got the rep cos it was universally available, along every road.

:niceone:Hahaha yea i reckon.

martybabe

19th May 2008, 16:39

Those with children may of course include the bonding experience of father and son mutually bashing each others fingers with hammers. When I was a very small lad, I always "helped" my father - by nailing some pieces of scrap timber together, with a very small hammer and very small blunted nails. I still remember how much pleasure "helping dad" gave me. I hope he also enjoyed it, I like to think he did. A far richer experience than watching dad go off to work to make some more money to pay someone else to do those things.

What a lovely memory, I'm sure the old fella enjoyed it as much as you, everyone of my kids has helped me build stuff, with varying degrees of success/disaster but I wouldn't have missed a minute of it even though quite often, I had to fix there help after they'd gone to bed. :love:

Squiggles

19th May 2008, 17:01

Those with children may of course include the bonding experience of father and son mutually bashing each others fingers with hammers.

Hell yeah, he got me good one day , got em back though :bash::lol:

Ill do most myself, till i cant or its impractical to do so (like changing tyres, tis easier to have cycletreads do it with the tools i dont have)

avgas

19th May 2008, 17:06

What a lovely memory, I'm sure the old fella enjoyed it as much as you, everyone of my kids has helped me build stuff, with varying degrees of success/disaster but I wouldn't have missed a minute of it even though quite often, I had to fix there help after they'd gone to bed. :love:
I helped dad put the carbs on the XS850 when i was about 3. He found out the hard way doing 130 on the motorway back home one night. Seems a mystery nut fell in the carb when dad fired up......carb didnt close.
With a pull off the clutch, flick into neutral and kill of the motor dad got her off to the side of the road to inspect the carb. He said that was the FIRST time i had tried to kill him.

martybabe

19th May 2008, 17:19

I helped dad put the carbs on the XS850 when i was about 3. He found out the hard way doing 130 on the motorway back home one night. Seems a mystery nut fell in the carb when dad fired up......carb didnt close.
With a pull off the clutch, flick into neutral and kill of the motor dad got her off to the side of the road to inspect the carb. He said that was the FIRST time i had tried to kill him.

I'd think at three years of age you'd know how to put a carb back together fer cripes sake. :yes: Good one mate.:niceone:

fridayflash

19th May 2008, 17:25

nadroj

19th May 2008, 17:53

I prefer the "help someone to help themselves" attitude.
How many times do you get a mate to do something for you? Wouldn't it have been better getting him / her to show you how to do it yourself so next time you have some skills and the confidence to give it a go yourself.
It's also a good bonding thing as well as giving each other respect for their trade / skillset.

beyond

19th May 2008, 20:12

Well, I used to do everything myself when I first got married. My dad had five kids when he was young and two jobs. He had to repair everything he could and regularly had to work on his car to keep it going being an old Studebaker. I helped him a lot. When I got my first bike I did everything.

I stripped engines both cars and bikes and rebuilt them to keep my machines on the road. I wouldn't baulk at any task.

Technology has buggered this way of life. I can't forget the first time I decided to do some tuning and an oil change on the my Batmobile RX7 twin turbo I had a few years back. Popped the bonnet and stood their looking amazed at what appeared to be the main reactor out of the Starship Enterprise. Cables plugs, wires, goodies hanging off everwhere and no room to spin a spanner.

Connections for computers and warnings about touching this and that and make sure you're grounded and you aren't live. If you glow in the dark don't go near this or that. if you do this you will blow the chip on the computer which will cost more than the car to replace. Don't stick your pinkies in there or they will get eaten.

Sadly I closed the bonnet after spending some time looking for the dipstick and checking the water. Now I don't bother anymore. I do remove my wheels to have the tyres changed on my motorbike as that is something that happens on a far too regular basis.

I will change my own brake pads as that seems simple enough, but hell, times have changed. You can't just pop the heads, pull a barrel and sand the sucker if she's smokin a bit. Not with the latest Nickasol this and that and don't dare go near it cos the nice shiny coating will get stuffed. Besides, now you have to work your way past the new fangle dangled fuel injection system and the latest four valve thingy ma jigs and if you get past those watch out you don't drop those latest super forged gold lines whatsits down the hole where the oil gets sucked back through the new super duper oil sucker thingy.

Where's the cable, oh there isn't one there?? It's controlled by this latest fighter jet technology fly by wire system using resisters and capacitors and transistors and mother boards with the latest 4.5ghz running 3000mhz you know what's.

I think that about covers it. Shall we try an oil change. Maybe not cos it's the latest alloy casting where the sump bolt goes and if you don't use precisely 20lbs per inch or kilos per centimetre on that nice new digital torque wrench then you are going to strip the plug hole and the you will be up for more mulla cos it will need drilling out and inserting and oh shit :(

HungusMaximist

19th May 2008, 20:34

^ +1 on that post

I am definitely not mechnically minded but I do enjoy fiddling around and bonding with mates over some mechanical work.

I'll do what I can armed with a Haynes manual and good mates like oil, battery, fairings, throttle cable, air filter and brake pads. But I do have to say it is down to alot on the bike, some people won't touch old bikes and vice versa.

Somethings I have done probably will never do again unless it's absolutely nescessary as end of the day, time is money, so if you can afford it/don't know what you're doing then get it sorted at the shops, but I have to say, I like learning and some of the skills you go away with stays you life long and it just might become useful in a accident related situation.

On another note, there isn't enough good qualified motorcycle mechanics in NZ!

martybabe

19th May 2008, 21:10

I used to work with the AA breakdown service patrol boys and if they got a call out to an old motor they'd jump up and down like it was double xmas or somat. 3 or 4 patrols would turn up to a Ford anglia, cause they could get down and dirty.

A modern Renault ? a 30 second look followed by, " yeah no it's fooked mate, Ill get ya a tow truck"

Ya just can't fiddle like ya used to. :confused:

geoffm

19th May 2008, 21:22

All true, and a whole pile of things causing it.
One thing I think is the changing lifestyles. How many people have a decent garage and somewhere to work that you can pull a motor down and leave the bits around while you work on it? Most modern houses seem to have a 2 car garage - if they are small cars and there is nothing else in the garage as well. As for apartments.... Not to mention neighbours complaining about the noise

I will have a go at fixing most things, but I work long hours and by the time th eweekend comes, I really can't be bothered crawling under cars, etc. I do oil changes and services, but don't have the enthusiasm and time any more for pulling motors down.
I find it really relaxing pottering in the shed - as long as I don't have to meet a deadline, have something runnign to get to work the next day or whatever. I finally started fixing a couple of weatherboards in the weekend - only taken 2 years...

mashman

19th May 2008, 21:23

Popped the bonnet and stood their looking amazed at what appeared to be the main reactor out of the Starship Enterprise. Cables plugs, wires, goodies hanging off everwhere and no room to spin a spanner.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: damn that made me laugh, brought back a Shatner line from Airplane 2 when he starts to lose it with all the "Flashing and Bleeping aaannnndd Bleeeeping and FLAAAAAAASHING..."

Headbanger

19th May 2008, 21:25

This is actually somewhat of a red herring. Firstly, those on salary don't get paid more (or less) for more (or less) hours spent. I could argue that instead of doing my own maintainence, I could take on more private work (I charge out at $150 per hour for private stuff), and use the proceeds to pay someone else to do the maintainence.

etc etc

Yeah, You kind of missed my point, I get paid quite a lot less per hour then what I would pay a mechanic, But my time with my family is worth more to me then either sum of cash. I won't see them again until Friday night.

There other factors of course, One being that I'm not great at it, the other being I don't find it very enjoyable, and don't see it as a "fun time" for me and my kids.And I can afford to have it done.

But that's just what works for me, I'm not suggesting anyone else has to follow my lead, If someone gets satisfaction from pulling apart an engine then more power to them.........

Hell, I only discovered my bike had a dipstick when the oil light came on, Then I rode her straight from the cafe to the mechanic and forked over $120 to get her topped up.

Ok, thats not true.

bmz2

19th May 2008, 22:02

Well it's good to see the cannot do kiwi's is alive and well.I go into peoples garages everyday and i find the under 40's, 90% of the time, they don't even have a hammer.
Forgot that is in the hot water cupboard. While this is happening you guy's are making me rich. PLEASE PLEASE KEEP IT UP:beer:

While people say i rather have a life style[bullshit]. They are paying money out to people who are getting a far better life style and getting rich off you. You who would rather go out and spend their money in restraints that serve a meal that i would not put in front of my cat. Spend money over a bar , and they call that a life style..The can do attitude is what the kiwi life style is a bout , people have forgotten about this, and have stopped doing it .It's all about the dollar not the pride and challenge of attempting the not impossible. Shit i built a 40foot launch , my own homes and brought up a family that has traveled the world. The only way to get these thing was to do it myself. money saved on the projects have allowed me to have a better than average life. I was not born with a silver spoon , but i have made a silver spoon

Motu

19th May 2008, 22:06

Motor vehicles are no problem to me,even modern ones....or else I'm out of a job! For me Consumer Rights has severely cut into my skills - we just aren't allowed to repair things anymore.....now matter how good the ''repair'',the customer will still complain,so no more repairs,you have to have a $new part sir.

Around home I'm capable of anything,I just don't like to.Being a sort of engineer,I find working in wood lacking some what in precision,and that annoys me so much I don't like to do it.A couple of months ago my wife was fitting some new door latches (because I moan too much) but being 20 years newer they sat about 1/2mm proud of the door - so with a sharp chisel I took the 1/2mm off so they sat flush.I can handle a precision wood working repair,but anything with more than a 1mm gap will see me smashing it up.I can't paint a kitchen wall as well as I can paint a petrol tank.

But even though I am more of an all rounder than the later generations,I pale in comparison to my grandfather.He worked in the kauri forests,working bullock teams....ran his own trucking business....became a mechanic...butchered his own beasts....and still in the family is the kitchen suite he made,an expanding table and 6 chairs,all made from rewarewa and as good as anything you could buy in a shop.My other grandfather was a horse breeder/trainer,still operator,and made his own haybailer in the '30's just by looking at his neighbours - and with no electricity and my mother working the bellows for his forge....he made his own.

I hate to think what my kids will be capable of......

Headbanger

19th May 2008, 22:08

While people say i rather have a life style[bullshit]. They are paying money out to people who are getting a far better life style and getting rich off you. Y

I know where my mechanic lives.........and it ain't that flash........Lmao.

bmz2

19th May 2008, 22:38

I know where my mechanic lives.........and it ain't that flash........Lmao.

So he doesn't live in aucklnd then , dude,

Dave-

19th May 2008, 22:44

one thing i cant stand is when someone comes into my store looks at me and says "I've got photos on my memory card and i don't know how to print them can you do it?"

DID YOU EVEN FUCKING TRY?!?!

and it's not as if it's a game, the instructions are right there...on the screen in plain English..."put your memory card in the corresponding slot to the right"

then they sit there and point at the screen to the photos they want...another inch and you're doing it yourself...

first time working at my new job and the manager is all "this is the printer you..." "yeah i touch the screen, memory cards there, select that one then this, here's the edits, hit print, what's the code? is the code always the same?"

he says "oh so you've done this before?"

"nope."

kiwi can do attitude gone? yes, in 99% of the population.

Headbanger

19th May 2008, 22:56

So he doesn't live in aucklnd then , dude,

Why?, Do Auckland mechanics live in palaces?

westie

19th May 2008, 23:04

I do concur that there are alot of squids out there too lazy to give things a try. Oh! The energy spent on using the grey matter. As dave here says, Too lazy to even give it a poke.

Well I dont think its dead, yet. Definately hard to find.

Things(like motorcycle parts) are easy to get hold of these days so people opt for the time saving of buying a part intsead of putting it back together with varying glues and no 8 fence wire(had to do this on the weekend to hold my muffler on). I've been told its "the throw" away generation, as in if its broke then throw it away and get a new one.

I was always taught to fix it before you throw it away.

bmz2

19th May 2008, 23:30

Headbanger, the world is changing dude , trades people are now being paid more than ever. And yes we are living in very nice area's and homes. but if you are just looking at where people live, area wise, then you need to look deeper, A lot of people live in places that they can not afford , but they do it to keep up with the type of job they perform.Or they rent not own. lifestyle. . But if people want to pay for services then thats OK, but the kiwi can do is dying and it's a shame. Do not look at one trades person . Maybe we remove tech subjects from schools , and we pay to sit the trades through uni and come out with a degree and then watch us charge , won't be 80 dollars for 1/2 on site I'll charge 160 for half on site:2thumbsup any way got to go and pack off to OZ for a couple of weeks:banana:

TygerTung

20th May 2008, 01:08

I enjoy working on things. I think to a degree it's the sort of person you are. My dad is a teacher, he does stuff around the house, has done up a few car engines etc. As a child I was always hitting nails into bits of wood making wooden go karts and stuff like that. Some people are just not into it though, they just cant figure out how mechanical things work! These people may be good at other things instead like English, maths, banking etc.

Everyone is built different, but I think to a certain degree the kiwi ingenuity is going.

I would prefer to go home and work on my shitty old motorbike than doing a couple of hours overtime and getting someone else to do it, they say a change is as good as a holiday, and I find it quite relaxing, most of the time!

Ixion

20th May 2008, 13:49

TygerTung

20th May 2008, 14:33

When I was at primary school we went to a school in town and did metalwork, woodwork, sewing, and cooking. That was in the early 90's though, I dunno if they still do it.

imdying

20th May 2008, 14:36

People are becoming victims of your their own fears!

Injection systems are dead easy to work on, easier than carbs in some respects. The computers on bikes tell you what's wrong, and when they can't give you the right answer, that's still no harder to track down than an 'off idle cough' in a carb'd bike. Not that it matters much, their failure rate is pretty darned good... hell if a bit breaks, it'll still attempt to get you home on whatever sensors are left. Nicasil plated bores are a pain, but never need to be touched for the life of a vehicle in normal use (2 strokes excepted). Cables are cables, chain n sprockets are still chain n sprockets... fly by wire, no biggy there, bikes have had similar servo controlled things for 20 years (got EXUP or SAPC?), the CPUs are just faster now.

People are simply to pussy to give it a go... bikes are getting easier to work on, not harder.

It ain't dead where I am, that's for sure.

/edit: Just thinking about it... my 85 RZ500 had a zillion more wires and hoses than an 02 GSXR1000

madandy

20th May 2008, 14:48

One of the (many) failings of the present day education system is the degree to which it has indoctrinated people with the idea that using any tool other than a pen is a sign of failure in life and a lower class status.

When I was at school, both woodwork and metalwork were compulsory classes for every boy , as were needlecraft and cooking for every girl.

So even the academic lads left able to hammer a nail and tighten a nut. And every lass left able to roast a joint of meat and take up a hem

(It would have been better still of course if both boys and girls had been required to do all four. A failing that I had to remedy for myself later in life).

And there were quite a few lads who started off in the academic streams , and then decided they preferred the technical ones and switched.

To balance matters, every student also had to take English, maths, and either latin, French or Greek.

Less time spent on Treaty Studies and more on such Life Studies would be of benefit both to the pupils and to society.

I would have quoted all yuor posts in this thread Sir but this one'll do.
I can relate to your posts so well, and agree with you in principal.
In the '80's every boy and every girl did do woodwork and metal work, sewing and cooking. It was also compulsory to study either French or German one term and then Japanese or Maori the next term...I don't know what choices the kids have today but they seem to choose what ever is easiest!
I just lost my apprentice last week. 3 years down the tubes as he couldn't handle his 3rd to last on job unit standard which was to be the boss for a month - he had to design a work plan, plan B for wet weather and plan C for any other unforseeable situation we commonly see in my worlk place. The boy (25yrs old) simply lacked the fortitude to handle crticism and think on his feet.
He was a selfish, spoilt 'generation-Y' thorn in my side.
He came to us with a School Certificate and could not calculate 12.5% of 50 in his head let alone brace a pipe in the ground with a wooden stake and some wire!
I have a 20yr old labourer on the other hand who is very practically minded, resourcefull, considerate and unfortunately unwilling to undertake an apprenticeship due to lack of confidence in his own ability. And perhaps he also lacks the motivation. Typical in those I meet under 40.
I am 32 next month, for the record and choose to DIY where possible and enjoy a life of improving properties together with my talented partner to supplement our modest incomes as a Greenkeeper and 'Clerk' and afford our family some luxuries as well as the essential toys in life :cool:

nodrog

20th May 2008, 14:48

So even the academic lads left able to hammer a nail and tighten a nut. And every lass left able to roast a joint of meat and take up a hem

now the lads just leave, able to get hammered and bust a nut, and all the girls are able to roll a joint of weed and take it in the bum.

madandy

20th May 2008, 16:00

now the lads just leave, able to get hammered and bust a nut, and all the girls are able to roll a joint of weed and take it in the bum.

'YOu have given out too much..."

Nice manipulation of words there! Sadly so true for many high school 'graduates' these days...

mashman

20th May 2008, 17:48

'YOu have given out too much..."

Nice manipulation of words there! Sadly so true for many high school 'graduates' these days...

REALLY!!!!! Reckon they'll take me back at High School???

Nade

20th May 2008, 18:17

mmmmmm....its sad in my thinking....this 'lack' of skills. When I left school at 16 and went and got a job, my teachers and class mates told me I was mad...I should go to uni and study hard and get a REAL job. Funny thing is...I got a job....earned my own money...worked my way up the 'food chain'. Many of my ex classmates came home from uni and I had flash cars, lived in a flat by myself and had MONEY to get pissed at weekends and go away on trips etc.....wot did they have??? a hang over and a peice of paper that said they were academically(sp?) skilled but on the job experience/ hand skills and LIFE skills were lacking.
When I was chief engineer at a company in CHCH 12 years after leaving school I had university graduates come and work for us as labourers because they couldn't get a job with their qualiforcations....the jobs just weren't their for them.....one of them eventually retrained and took on an apprenticeship as a deisel mechanic and hasn't looked back since. Others I have seen working as couriers and even stacking shelves in super markets.....still with whacking great student loans....no wonder they graduate and piss off over seas.