AX100 CDI/Coil

[Skunk]

I've posted this in Buckets forum too:

I seem to have an issue with my CDI/Coil on my AX100 bucket. Now, I know nothing about CDI's and as this is a combined unit I need some answers to some basic questions (and quick - I only have one weekend to get this going and no money!)

1. Is my only option to replace it with another AX CDI/coil?
2. Can I get a generic coil and some other CDI unit? How do they wire together? (Currently only one LT wire from the stator to the CDI/coil)
3. Any other options?

[Skunk]

I've posted this in Bike Mechcanics forum too:

I seem to have an issue with my CDI/Coil on my AX100 bucket. Now, I know nothing about CDI's and as this is a combined unit I need some answers to some basic questions (and quick - I only have one weekend to get this going and no money!)

1. Is my only option to replace it with another AX CDI/coil?
2. Can I get a generic coil and some other CDI unit? How do they wire together? (Currently only one LT wire from the stator to the CDI/coil)
3. Any other options?

[nudemetalz]

Hey Skunk,

Have gone for the cheapest method first then upwards from there ?
Process of elimination method.
ie Spark Plug - cap - lead - plug coil and then the trickier stuff like replacing a CDI.

I see Jap Motorcycle Dismantlers are wrecking an AX100.
http://www.japmcdismantlers.co.nz/suzuki.htm

[gav]

Buy an FXR150 ......

[koba]

I'm no expert at all but from the little I do know..

So it has a CDI box instead of points and condenser?

Maybe try freezing it, It worked on my gsxr250 enough to diagnose it as a bad box and get another one.

If it had a magnetic trigger (hall effect?) instead of points that may be a bit bung, usually would stop it all together tho I think. To check it you need a wanky multimeter that can pick up the tiny pulses.
I may be able to nick my brothers one to borrow.

Also If it has a seperate condenser I have a brand new one you can use to try substituting it.

Coils should be generic from bike to bike but need to be run the correct way otherwise your spark will be shit and it will show erosion on the earth electrode of the plug, somthing to check actually...

[quallman1234]

You can borrow whatever from me if you get desperate. I won't be needing it (Untill the next bucket race) and it seems to work.

[Skunk]

Cheers guys. Except you Gav.

I've replaced the plug and leads. I've checked the LT wire (there's only one). No condenser. Don't see anything that could be a trigger on the flywheel. Pic shows the lighting and ignition stator. I've removed the (big) lighting one.
Second pic is the other end of the LT wire. One box with an HT lead...

So that leaves me the CDI/Coil combo (the Ignitor on some websites) and the stator. Voltage check on the stator seems OK. I plan to swap out the 'Ignitor' and see what that does.

My problem is what to do if it's either of those...

[Ivan]

That old motor I gave you had ummmm aTF185 stator on it and flywheel.
So try even TS125 etc, and then if you do thatand convert it to CDI that way then put on something like a KX125 or something CDI

[Skunk]

That didn't work too well Ivan. I replaced everything with standard AX bits.

I just don't understand CDI's well enough. Do they have a built-in advance curve or not?

Can I just use another CDI/coil? All the CDI's I've seen have four or more wires. How does that fit into my current setup?

[speedpro]

I think you will find that the CDI electronics is built into the coil. The ignition generator coil on the engine where the LT lead comes from generates an AC current which the CDI/coil uses as a trigger AND to make the spark. TS100/125s and KH100s use a similar system.

Some CDIs have a built in "retard" feature and others do not. I would be very surprised if that one retards at all. You definitely want an ignition that retards the timing as the revs rise and the motor comes on to the power. This allows you to advance the timing which boosts low and mid range power. I have used YZ80K, CR80?, and CR125(currently) ignitions and they all worked well.

Be careful touching the LT lead when spinning the motor. You might be surprised just how much voltage it makes.

[Skunk]

It makes around 100-150 volts AC. (Don't ask how I know...)

Thanks Speedpro. If it is the Ignitor at fault I'll look for one of those you mention. I have a KH100 parts bin so I'll look in that.

I'm going to test it by replacing with a RG50 one Sully60 lent me.

[Slingshot]

If you need to rape Frankie for bits just sing out. Don't know if it would be compatible though, she's got a little black box with some wires and stuff that go to a ceramic looking thing that the spark plug lead comes from.

[Skunk]

Little black box is the CDI (that we left off :lol:) Don't think it'll be an easy swap.

Thanks for the offer.

[Kendog]

Is this the place for me to make a smart arsed comment about a CDI round here you could use?

[Skunk]

If you're talking about Pamela I've already tried. She's not ready to let those bits go without surgery.

[Skunk]

Well, the CDI wasn't at fault it seems so I whipped the head and barrel off and found that the motor is in good nick. Reeds are OK, barrel good, piston good and all the bearings feel OK too.

So what does that leave me. I have a miss from mid to top end of the rev range under load.

I haven't changed to carb at all. Can the mixture change over time? Could the colder air really make that much difference?

HELP!

[k14]

Well from my 125GP experience, and I think that they would probably be more susceptible to atmospheric conditions than an ax?? A 10-15 or even 25 degree temperature change shouldn't have much of a difference on a setup. A high rpm miss does sound electrical. I don't know the history of the problem but are you sure the coils are sweet? Some can be fine till they are put under load and then break down.

[Skunk]

I've swapped the original coil/CDI out with one from a running RG50. No difference in performance at all. The carb is spitting back a little (I get fuel on the frame spine). I've replaced the plug twice (no difference). The stator reads OK on a multimeter but I'll try that as well when I can get one.

[nudemetalz]

Have you got an identical carb you can try to at least rule it out as a cause ?

[Skunk]

No. This one is off a KR250A. Jetted and float level set for this engine.

[koba]

I've swapped the original coil/CDI out with one from a running RG50. No difference in performance at all.

Did you swap the rotor bit too?
Im just guessing here but maybe the magnetic bits in it could be poked or somthing?
Dunno if thats possible, just thinking out loud.

[Skunk]

Did you swap the rotor bit too?
Im just guessing here but maybe the magnetic bits in it could be poked or somthing?
Dunno if thats possible, just thinking out loud.
The flywheel... no. Good thought. Time to pillage Pamela.


Again.

[Trudes]

:shit: OK I'll go down and explain to her that Uncle Skunk is going to come round and nicely remove some of her bits, but that he's just borrowing them and she won't miss them while he has them (I will not say the R word to her, poor Pamela!):msn-wink:

[nudemetalz]

Had any luck yet, Skunk?

[Skunk]

It's the stator. Hoping Quallman's works now.
I've sent mine to be rewound but that's not looking good - no wire in stock or manufactured anymore.

Yes F5 Dave, you were right but I started at the easiest and cheapest... Doh!