Cheep Shoei and Arai sales on trade me

[rc_36_rider]

This guy is selling new Shoei and Arai helmets on Trade me (User name Naionaio) It looks like he is Importing them from Honkong. He has had some rather bad feed back and also he has been arguing with people via the questions and answers on his auctuions. Some people have been saying there are different shell styles for the differen markets and head types (Asian head vs euro head) has anyboady delt with this guy/ had one of the helmets to see if they are different in fitting?

[CHOPPA]

I bought a helmet off him an arai rx7 corsair, it was cheaper then cost price from dolds. I would like to support the NZ supplier but my immediate family has bought over 15 brand new arai helmets over the years (caust they are the best!!!) and i couldnt even get a bit of a discount so i tried that guy. Helmet fits fine cant notice the diff shape 1 week delivery. The person askin the questions bout head shape is from arai nz tryin to protect there industry and sorta fair enough i guess. One point of argument to favour buying it locally is that you have no doubts and the ones from wherever they come from dont have a nz standards sticker technically making them illegal to wear on the road. They still have snell etc etc to be honest for my next helmet i will be buying it locally

[imdying]

An Arai dealer will service an Arai helmet (replace broken bits, clean and adjust) a NZ new Arai helmet every single day for free if you want to take it in every day. What's that worth to you?

[NOMIS]

I bought a helmet off him an arai rx7 corsair, it was cheaper then cost price from dolds. I would like to support the NZ supplier but my immediate family has bought over 15 brand new arai helmets over the years (caust they are the best!!!) and i couldnt even get a bit of a discount so i tried that guy. Helmet fits fine cant notice the diff shape 1 week delivery. The person askin the questions bout head shape is from arai nz tryin to protect there industry and sorta fair enough i guess. One point of argument to favour buying it locally is that you have no doubts and the ones from wherever they come from dont have a nz standards sticker technically making them illegal to wear on the road. They still have snell etc etc

How much did you pay? I want one

[Big Dave]

Support your local bike shop.

[NOMIS]

Support your local bike shop.

maybe some should support the people who buy from them a bit better.

[Big Dave]

maybe some should support the people who buy from them a bit better.

Yeah right. They are all making millions.

[zeocen]

maybe some should support the people who buy from them a bit better.

Got my Arai from Kerry at Motohaus, he mentioned to me about the servicing and said track days with Arai stands will sell new visors at wholesale price for current Arai owners. Can't get much better than that for support.

[Marmoot]

An Arai dealer will service an Arai helmet (replace broken bits, clean and adjust) a NZ new Arai helmet every single day for free if you want to take it in every day. What's that worth to you?

Bullshit.
$90 for my broken side cover from WHERE I BOUGHT THEM.

[disenfranchised]

(User name Naionaio)

Actually it's niaoniao

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Members/Listings.aspx?member=995942

[Klown73]

Yep, I've been having a right nudge at him on Trade Me. He is quite simply misleading people, and he knows it, given his no return policy. He doesn't allow pickups either, which proves he doesn't people knowing where or who he is. In any case, he doesn't have the helmets he sells in stock, which contravenes Trade Me's Ts and Cs.

I asked him some fairly pertinent questions regarding the specifications of these helmets, and also enquired as to how he could offer any sort of warranty given that they are grey imported. He was more than abusive in his replies, and proceeded to pull the auctions, relist them without the questions, and blacklist me.

The issue here is the shape of the helmets he is getting from HK. While Asian-spec helmets are legal in New Zealand, the inner shell is shaped differently to suit the narrower, longer head of your average Asian biker. This means they won't have the full fit and comfort that the higher price of an Arai or Shoei justifies. The NZ Arais and Shoeis are of the European mold, which is the shape of your average Kiwi. There is also an American derivative.

In any case, as stated above, your local shop can make adjustments and service your locally-sourced helmet to a certain point, and can most certainly stand behind the 5 year warranty applied to these helmets. Niaoniao sells dodgy helmets, and cannot possibly offer any type of warranty, yet he's selling X-11s (Asian version of the X-Spirit) at $899. The RRP of an X-Spirit in NZ is $999 currently.

I know where I'm putting my money, and it's certainly not with some bloke in Hong Kong.

[zeocen]

Hmmm, take this with a huge grain of salt, but I thought niaoniao was crazefox? I can't remember why I thought that, hmm...

[Owl]

I've bought an Arai Corsair off this guy and had another locally as well. Hong Kong one is the same fit although it's not called a Corsair. It's called the RR4 and is almost identical to one you'd buy here. The difference is the NZ one has the pinlock visor, english manual and the HK one doesn't!
I know you'll save a bit buying off Trademe, but I was a little concerned about after sales service when he wouldn't reply to e-mails once purchase was completed.
I hope that helps!

[Marmoot]

So, if I have two friends, one with longer head and one with rounder head, both europeans. Does that mean if both buys local Arai one would fit properly and one would not?

I'm confused now.
:crazy:

Remember, you are unique. Just like everybody else.

[pritch]

Support your local bike shop.

Some yes. Some not. It's largely up to them.

[Klown73]

So, if I have two friends, one with longer head and one with rounder head, both europeans. Does that mean if both buys local Arai one would fit properly and one would not?

I'm confused now.
:crazy:

Remember, you are unique. Just like everybody else.
Yep, fair point, at the end of the day we're talking about your average head shape here, so some will fit great, others will not. Hence some people find Shoeis more comfortable, others may find Arais more comfortable.

[megageoff76]

How would you know that they were legit Shoeis or Arais?

There are some pretty good fake/counterfeit products coming out of asia.

[NZsarge]

The biggest and probably only drawback i've found with Arai helmets is the parts back-up is rubbish (not a dealer fault) particularly if it's a patterned one (not a plain colour).
I've been waiting on a top vent for my chaser for freakin' months.

[imdying]

So, if I have two friends, one with longer head and one with rounder head, both europeans. Does that mean if both buys local Arai one would fit properly and one would not?What about an Asian immigrant in NZ?

I do wonder just how much difference in shells there is... if was truly a critical (safety) factor, surely they'd sell all shell types in every market? So it must just be a (minor?) comfort thing?

Still... my Arai dealer did say 'If it pleases you to come in every day, then it pleases me to service and clean you helmet every day'. If I was (more of?) an annoying bastard, I could well get my moneys worth :D


As for that seller... if you can't pickup, and can't return, that says a lot... buying a helmet with trying it on can be a little hit n miss don't ya think?

[imdying]

The biggest and probably only drawback i've found with Arai helmets is the parts back-up is rubbish (not a dealer fault) particularly if it's a patterned one (not a plain colour).
I've been waiting on a top vent for my chaser for freakin' months.Shoot jcmotors.com an email. I've been there, stood in the shop, and received excellent service (via email and in person). They're a super flash shop (I've got it all on video), definitely no fly by night operator. They'll get you your bit no trouble at all... I picked up a special colour Arai over there for a mate that the dealers here didn't have access to, it was no bother... took a few days to ship over here, and then spent TWO FUCKIN WEEKS FLOATING BETWEEN THOSE COCK SUCKERS IN CUSTOMS AND NEW ZEALAND POST. Ahem.

[Marmoot]

What about an Asian immigrant in NZ?

whoa! stay away from the race card. :Pokey:
They can't drive, let alone ride 2-wheeled vehicles.

Merely stating the fact that my head might be different from yours. Same as everybody else.
By the way, I hope using oxymoron does not make you a moron.

[NZsarge]

They'll get you your bit no trouble at all... I picked up a special colour Arai over there for a mate that the dealers here didn't have access to, it was no bother... took a few days to ship over here, and then spent TWO FUCKIN WEEKS FLOATING BETWEEN THOSE COCK SUCKERS IN CUSTOMS AND NEW ZEALAND POST. Ahem.
:lol: Best I go ring my dealer again then. :rolleyes:

[Big Dave]

My understanding is that the shells are basically the same no matter what market - it's the innards that determine.

In fact someone once told me that the shells for all the helmets only come from a few factories. Don't recall whom.

[mashman]

Pffff, sounds a little suspect to me, i'd be wary of how these things are imported and then does the guy give them a swift smash it against the wall test to check the quality... Having said that, it's your life...

[imdying]

My understanding is that the shells are basically the same no matter what market - it's the innards that determine.Quite right, my bad, I did in fact mean the inner shell.


In fact someone once told me that the shells for all the helmets only come from a few factories. Don't recall whom.That seems unlikely, I'd go so far as to say they told you a porky.

[rc_36_rider]

Pffff, sounds a little suspect to me, i'd be wary of how these things are imported and then does the guy give them a swift smash it against the wall test to check the quality... Having said that, it's your life...

I agree, I din't think the $100 doller saving is worth the no warrenty and no returns policy of this jocker

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yeah right. They are all making millions.

with respect, different argument.

[rc_36_rider]

How would you know that they were legit Shoeis or Arais?

There are some pretty good fake/counterfeit products coming out of asia.

This is true, to true

[HenryDorsetCase]

if you can't pickup, and can't return, that says a lot... buying a helmet with trying it on can be a little hit n miss don't ya think?


That is why I would never buy stuff a helmet off the interwebs. I want to try it on first.

[mooks]

Hmmm, take this with a huge grain of salt, but I thought niaoniao was crazefox? I can't remember why I thought that, hmm...

'cause they both have the orange z1000's maybe? I believe they are both for sale too.......

[Brett]

Well since I paid $499 incl GST for my Shoei XR 1000 (Graphics) from Motomail INCLUDING a tinted visor, I know where I will be buying my next one from. I know their history, I know they aren't dodgy and thus I know the helmet will do what it is meant to, if it needs to.

[xwhatsit]

Here's what he said in response to one of his negative feedbacks;

... 4. Don't be fooled by so-called "official declaration asian shape euro shape etc its just Arai's marketing stategy, always REMEMBER MODEL SHAPES NOT MARKET SHAPES: RX7 - Relaxed Round Oval interior, Profile / Viper GT - Long oval, Quantum 2 /
What do we think about that? Model shapes, not market shapes. Arai offer a different selection of models in other markets -- but if you buy the same model on offer here, you get the same shape?

He's, er, not the best when it comes to public relations. But if at the end of the day all he's doing is selling helmets which are a slightly different fit for swollen Kiwi lumps, it's not entirely deserving of the amount of vitriol he's copping. Hell, if he's selling to the Auckland university bikers at least, for half the buyers it'll be a better fit than what they get from a shop :D

I notice the Chinese bikers I know don't run around complaining they can't find a good-fitting helmet here in the NZ market :laugh:

[imdying]

That is why I would never buy stuff a helmet off the interwebs. I want to try it on first.Ya. I brought a Craft RX6 in matt black from the web (wanted a motorcycle suitable Simpson Bandit), but that was the only way I could get hold of one :(

Having been through the buying an Arai from overseas thing, I would probably front to my local dealer and just give them the extra cash to fit it the best it can be (different cheek pads etc), and get the free servicing. Some people are a lot tighter on dollars than me though, so I can see why someone would import one.

[imdying]

whoa! stay away from the race card. :Pokey:
They can't drive, let alone ride 2-wheeled vehicles.Heheheh. It's a point I'd be interested in hearing from the Arai distributor about though... are they doing the local Asian population a (potentially fatal?) disservice by not importing every internal shell type into NZ (or any other country with immigrants for that matter)?

Or is the different internal shell just all hot air and bullshit? It appears to me that they can't have it both ways... unless of course they import different internal shelled helmets on request? Anyone know? Some would say it's simply a matter of buying another brand, but as well all know, many of the replica helmets are exclusives.

[Marmoot]

it's not entirely deserving of the amount of vitriol he's copping.

TradeMe is full of wankers and auction trolls.
So many people just can't resist poking their heads into other's auctions and post degrading "questions". Attempt to pull the price down maybe?

[Marmoot]

Or is the different internal shell just all hot air and bullshit?

I'd incline more towards hot air and bullshit.

However, saying so, model-specific shapes are entirely true.
I can fit my Arai RX7 perfectly, while I literally collapsed after 15 minutes in my brother's Arai Chaser once, dropping my bike on the driveway.
Both are of Small size (55-56).

[Klown73]

I thought I'd play devil's advocate, so asked the question of Shoei regarding different shapes versus different territories:

"The shape of shell is same (using the same mold), but the material (a component ratio) is different. The interior is also different because the shapes of the head between European and Asian people is different."

The question here is not safety, Shoeis / Arais from any territory have to be, and will be, safe and legal. It's more a comfort issue. You can't blame Niaoniao for trying to make a buck when the currency is (was) strong, but I feel he's obligated to advise people that there is a difference, and that they may not receive after-sales service that proves his product good value for money.

[imdying]

The question here is not safety, Shoeis / Arais from any territory have to be, and will be, safe and legal. It's more a comfort issue.Really? Surely an ill fitting helmet is dangerous though? Wouldn't an Asian (or American) immigrant be unable to buy a helmet that fits correctly in NZ if internal shells really had to be different enough to accommodate their head shapes correctly, if all NZ ever gets is European shapes helmets?

[Katman]

TradeMe is full of wankers and auction trolls.
So many people just can't resist poking their heads into other's auctions and post degrading "questions". Attempt to pull the price down maybe?

Ain't that the truth. I've got some helmets on Trademe at the moment and I'm getting highly pissed off at some of the questions being asked under the 'guise' of legitimate inquiries.

[nodrog]

read -

http://www.araihelmet-europe.com/php/page/index2.php?page=faq5

FWIW i imported my RX7, up to $700 cheaper (depending on what stealership you go into), and it is EXACTLY the same as the ones in the shop.

[Hitcher]

It's interesting that people get so obsessive about Arai when they only manufacture a limited range of helmets. I will never wear one.

[imdying]

It's interesting that people get so obsessive about Arai when they only manufacture a limited range of helmets. I will never wear one.Apologies if it looks like I'm singling out Arai in my questions, and I agree, it does look that way, but they are definitely just generic questions.

[Big Dave]

with respect, different argument.

Nah.
Support your local bike shop.
Cause if you don't there isn't any local bike shops.

[jim.cox]

I will never wear one.

Me neither

But that's only because they aren't a good fit on my big fat "Bell" shaped head :)

[rc_36_rider]

Nah.
Support your local bike shop.
Cause if you don't there isn't any local bike shops.

Defanitly support your local I say, Take this into consideration. Lets say we all started importing only the things we want like the odd helmet or tyres or some gear then the shops says screw this and closes its doors, at that stage your stuffed, no warrenty for faulty items, no returns, no stock... I need that part in a hurry but I have to wait for it to sail out of jap land now I cant ride my bike... I'm brocken down on the side of the road but the shop that used to come pick me up is closed.... do any of these importers care about customer service? can they supply parts? I don't think so, do they care if your side pod brakes? probibly not. all they want to do is take your money make a quick buck and run.

[alanzs]

I have to try on a helmet before I buy it. It's not like a pair of socks... YMHO.

[brendonjw]

Having a look through his auctions, interesting that he lets you pick up jackets and clothing but NOT helmets

[jim.cox]

This arai training video on correct fit may be of interest /PT

http://www.spikedhumor.com/articles/103754/Arai_Helmet_sales_training_video.html

[Marmoot]

no warrenty for faulty items, no returns, no stock... I need that part in a hurry but I have to wait for it to sail out of jap land now I cant ride my bike... I'm brocken down on the side of the road but the shop that used to come pick me up is closed.... all they want to do is take your money make a quick buck and run.

Congratulations, you just described the situation commonly encountered on some of the current local shops.

[Owl]

Here's what he said in response to one of his negative feedbacks;

What do we think about that? Model shapes, not market shapes. Arai offer a different selection of models in other markets -- but if you buy the same model on offer here, you get the same shape?

He's, er, not the best when it comes to public relations. But if at the end of the day all he's doing is selling helmets which are a slightly different fit for swollen Kiwi lumps, it's not entirely deserving of the amount of vitriol he's copping. Hell, if he's selling to the Auckland university bikers at least, for half the buyers it'll be a better fit than what they get from a shop :D

I notice the Chinese bikers I know don't run around complaining they can't find a good-fitting helmet here in the NZ market :laugh:

Like I said, I've bought one off naionaio and another locally. They are an identical fit and it's only the pinlock visor and manual that vary. Just comes down to whether the lack of after sales service is worth the $300 saving.

[rc_36_rider]

Congratulations, you just described the situation commonly encountered on some of the current local shops.

Yeah like you say, SOME of the local shops. At least with them you have a leg to stand on and they actully have a premises, they can't run and hide, they can't just stop replying to e-mails and weather they like it or not they must offer a warrenty of some degree and they actully will get you parts if you ask and they will let you try before you buy.

[PrincessBandit]

I would have thought trying one on before buying would be standard procedure. But then in my field of work identical model instruments aren't actually "identical" when it comes to the feel of playing them and maybe I'm just projecting that onto another area it doesn't apply to. I'd have just thought though that with something as critical as a helmet, where comfort is an important factor as well as safety, try on before buy would go without saying just in case.

[Owl]

It's interesting that people get so obsessive about Arai when they only manufacture a limited range of helmets. I will never wear one.

Mmmmm, with 6+ full face road helmets available for motorcycles, how many do they need?:banana:

[rc_36_rider]

Like I said, I've bought one off naionaio and another locally. They are an identical fit and it's only the pinlock visor and manual that vary. Just comes down to whether the lack of after sales service is worth the $300 saving.

Like they say, if you deal with the lowest bidder it pays to have some $$ spare to cover the risk you run and if you do that you would have had enough to get the other anyway.

I bet your opnion would differ if you got a freight damaged helmet and the supplier said something like "it was fine when it left here'' then what do you do? buy another?

[Klown73]

Just comes down to whether the lack of after sales service is worth the $300 saving.

That may be the case, I'm not up to play on Arai retail pricing. His Shoei offerings are a bit different:

Niaoniao's X11s are on at $899, X-Spirit RECOMMENDED retail price is $999.
Niaoniao's Hornets are on at $699, NZ RECOMMENDED retail price is $699.
Niaoniao's Multitecs are on at $680, NZ price is $699.

NZ helmets have 5 year warranty.

Is the difference in price really worth it???

[Owl]

Having a look through his auctions, interesting that he lets you pick up jackets and clothing but NOT helmets

Not really interesting as they are drop shipped directly from Hong Kong. He doesn't see them let alone stock them.

[Owl]

That may be the case, I'm not up to play on Arai retail pricing. His Shoei offerings are a bit different:

Niaoniao's X11s are on at $899, X-Spirit RECOMMENDED retail price is $999.
Niaoniao's Hornets are on at $699, NZ RECOMMENDED retail price is $699.
Niaoniao's Multitecs are on at $680, NZ price is $699.

NZ helmets have 5 year warranty.

Is the difference in price really worth it???

You're right and I wouldn't do it again. For the record, I paid $750 for mine and they're $1099 locally. Naio's have gone up since then!

[Klown73]

anjum (95 ) 14 Dec 2007 niaoniao was the seller
(#128038350)
Yep, damaged parts.....here's how Niaoniao handles this scenario:

TradeMe Feedback:
He is refusing to take responsibility for badly packaged and therefore damaged visor.
trader responded: 14 Dec 2007
Hope this customer read the terms and conditions, if you do not agree do not buy it. We 100% guarantee our products are 100% intact before handing over to courier company, we are NOT resposible for any incident happened during the shipping including late delivery, parcel missing and damged parts. Customer need to contact NZ EMS Courier (EMS track and trace number is located on the parcel packaging).

Interesting, EMS is an international-only mail service, the guy didn't even send it himself!

[rc_36_rider]

Not really interesting as they are drop shipped directly from Hong Kong. He doesn't see them let alone stock them.

The perfect snatch and grab, useing your money to make him money. with the insurance of no returns an no warrenty. :-)

[Klown73]

Not really interesting as they are drop shipped directly from Hong Kong. He doesn't see them let alone stock them.

Direct breach of trademe, doesn't have the product he's selling in stock. Interested in collecting the cash only, not providing a service!

[Owl]

Direct breach of trademe, doesn't have the product he's selling in stock. Interested in collecting the cash only, not providing a service!

Right again Klown73! Sometimes we learn the hard way, although he never listed term & conditions when I bought mine.

[rc_36_rider]

It would appear the decision is unanimous, It is not worth the risk to maby save a couple of bucks and when you go into the shop you can look and touch and choose the right product for your needs. You even get warrenty and parts back up too.

[Marmoot]

And this thread's point is?

There is a big Caveat Emptor written all over the face of online auction sites.
You'd be stupid not to acknowledge this, and any buyers on TradeMe should think not once not twice but three times before commiting that Buy Now or Bid button. Unless they are brainless.

[Klown73]

Yeah, but it's worth keeping in mind there's loads of ethical people on Trade Me selling decent product in an ethical manner.

It's not the method of sale in question, it's the ethics of the seller.

[rc_36_rider]

The point was for everyone to help me to decide weather or not it was worth getting a helmet off this guy or gall and my opinion was very quickly swayed to the fact this guy is just using our money to make him money he is not providing a service and not offering a better deal then the shops when the above is considered.

[Owl]

And this thread's point is?

There is a big Caveat Emptor written all over the face of online auction sites.
You'd be stupid not to acknowledge this, and any buyers on TradeMe should think not once not twice but three times before commiting that Buy Now or Bid button. Unless they are brainless.

What a brainless post!:bleh:

[Sensei]

Support Local ? Did this for the first time I brought something from March1 Yamaha here in New Plymouth a $900 Arai Chaser helmet & $200 Gold lens . Less than 2 months after one of the side plates broke a tab off it some how ? so phoned shop to get them to replace it under Warranty & got " you have broken it !" & there is no warrany on that helmet ?????? as I looked at the Manual book with 5y Warranty on this helmet I said I'd bring it in to get it fixed & there was a warranty on it . Owner argued that I had broken it so got pissed off & said I would call the Importer which was Dolds in Hamilton & talked to a guy called Brendon , vented my point about one of their Arai dealers attitude etc , No worrys he said & a brand new set of free side plates turned up the next mornning .Now thats Service !!! All I can say about March1 Yamaha is Fuck you !! & have told every one else I know to do the same !

[vagrant]

Have Shoei sizes changed over the years?
My RF-700 is size small, and fitted really well when I got it many moons ago. It still fits ok, but the liner is well past it.
I tried a small XR-1000 on at Motomail, well tried to try it on, it was way too tight. I then tried an X-Spirit medium, too big, and then an XR-1000 medium. It fitted but not as well as my beat up RF-700.
Is there much of a difference between the X-spirit and the XR-1000 as far as sizing goes?

(FWIW I've never had a helmet sales person, either Arai or Shoei, measure my head for sizing. It's always been, stick this on and see how it feels. Maybe they were sick the day the training video was shown)

[AllanB]

Well apart from FFM which I understand is still made in NZ ALL HELMETS ARE IMPORTS :laugh:

Looks like he is only $100 cheaper than a NZ bike shop. If you want to spend that much on a helmet then spend the extra $100 at your shop for back-up and peace of mind.

Helmets are funny things, Shoei, AVG and a whole lot of name brands do not fit my head. However HJC & Arai do. Unfortunately it will be a long time until I can justify to pay out for a $1000 Arai. But lets not get into that subject...:oi-grr:

[FJRider]

BEWARE... Hong Kong is the world HQ of knock-off's. The cheap stuff is SELDOM the genuine article. Old saying, if it seems to good to be true ....

[breakaway]

Support your local bike shop.

Unfortunately some of us don't have a spare $200 lying around.

[AllanB]

BEWARE... Hong Kong is the world HQ of knock-off's. The cheap stuff is SELDOM the genuine article. Old saying, if it seems to good to be true ....


I use a couple of big print companies in HK, with China print plants. Recently I asked one of them to see if they could find a wire working company to make steel display stands for me - I sent over plans, dimensions & photos and he visited a few companies. He came back saying that they all want to make them however they will need a completed one sent to them to COPY.

[N1CK]

It's interesting that people get so obsessive about Arai when they only manufacture a limited range of helmets. I will never wear one.

What brand do you wear/recommend?

[Jono25]

By the replies on trademe this guy/gal seems like a bit of a loose canon. Also a bit cheeky telling you to go in to a bike shop and check the size and then buying off him. What's wrong with going around to his premises to see the product. Sounds a bit dodgy to me.

[Big Dave]

Unfortunately some of us don't have a spare $200 lying around.

If you actually build a relationship with a shop you get that back with interest.

2 hours ago.

'Hi Shane my speedo has stopped working'

'Drop it in and we'll replace the sensor.'

'Cool I have a few calls to do on Monday - can you lend me a bike for a few hours'

'Sure.'

And I get a discount on everything I buy.

[McJim]

If you actually build a relationship with a shop you get that back with interest.

2 hours ago.

'Hi Shane my speedo has stopped working'

'Drop it in and we'll replace the sensor.'

'Cool I have a few calls to do on Monday - can you lend me a bike for a few hours'

'Sure.'

And I get a discount on everything I buy.

I agree and this has also been my experience (Motomail and Cycletreads come to mind first) however shouldn't the onus be on the bike shop to build that relationship?

[Big Dave]

I agree and this has also been my experience (Motomail and Cycletreads come to mind first) however shouldn't the onus be on the bike shop to build that relationship?

Not if you don't go there.

[Katman]

I agree and this has also been my experience (Motomail and Cycletreads come to mind first) however shouldn't the onus be on the bike shop to build that relationship?

The onus actually is on the bike shop to build that relationship. The only thing they ask of the customer is that they buy their product. If the shop fails to meet their end of the bargain once something has been bought (within reason of course) then they deserve to go out of business.

I am always aware that without my customers my business has nothing.

[Nagash]

And on that issue that the sellers getting mental about.. about him wanting hard evidence that Japan, Europe and America have different helmet ssizes. It's on shoei's website..

"SHOEI produces three completely different helmet shells: for the domestic, American and European markets. This is one of the secrets of the excellent fit of the helmets."

http://www.shoei-europe.com/en/production.php

[Big Dave]

"SHOEI produces three completely different helmet shells: for the domestic, American and European markets. This is one of the secrets of the excellent fit of the helmets."

http://www.shoei-europe.com/en/production.php

Well spotted.

[megageoff76]

Just out of interest, how do they determine the head sizes?

Do they run a working group, get a buch of people together and measure their noggins? What happends if some asian dudes show at the German group and screw up all the stats?

[nonferrous]

I thimk helmets still attract high duty hence the high local price - I got my last arai as carry on luggage and saved about 40%

[FJRider]

I use a couple of big print companies in HK, with China print plants. Recently I asked one of them to see if they could find a wire working company to make steel display stands for me - I sent over plans, dimensions & photos and he visited a few companies. He came back saying that they all want to make them however they will need a completed one sent to them to COPY.

I rest my case.

Let the buyer BEWARE... REMEMBER you were warned.

[Nagash]

I thimk helmets still attract high duty hence the high local price - I got my last arai as carry on luggage and saved about 40%

Yeah, I got a pair of Alpinestar SP1 gloves from America like that. Bought them from a mate of mine who sells Alpinestars gear in the States and he sent them to me delcaring that they were mine and he was just returning them so no GST.

Went from $250 gloves to $160...

[McJim]

And on that issue that the sellers getting mental about.. about him wanting hard evidence that Japan, Europe and America have different helmet ssizes. It's on shoei's website..

"SHOEI produces three completely different helmet shells: for the domestic, American and European markets. This is one of the secrets of the excellent fit of the helmets."

http://www.shoei-europe.com/en/production.php

So essentially an admission by Shoei that they are failing their Customers of asian descent living in Europe?!?!

I'm Glad I wear Nitro and HJC! :rofl:

[Owl]

I thimk helmets still attract high duty hence the high local price - I got my last arai as carry on luggage and saved about 40%

There is no duty on motorcycle helmets!

http://www.customs.govt.nz/importers/Private+Importers/Customs+Charges.htm

[McJim]

There is no duty on motorcycle helmets!

http://www.customs.govt.nz/importers/Private+Importers/Customs+Charges.htm

Woah - how f*cked up is that? 17% for a bicycle helmet and FOC for a motorbike helmet? :weird:

[Nagash]

So essentially an admission by Shoei that they are failing their Customers of asian descent living in Europe?!?!

I'm Glad I wear Nitro and HJC! :rofl:

Arai have the same thing on their site,

"Please be aware that the size and fit combinations may vary between markets due to differeing standards in effect in various countries. Therefore, the size you order, based on the fit you know from your home market, may not fit or feel the same as the home market helmet"

http://www.araihelmet-europe.com/php/language.php

[Pussy]

Anyone know what the difference in spec is between a Shoei helmet for the American market, and a European market example?

[Nagash]

Anyone know what the difference in spec is between a Shoei helmet for the American market, and a European market example?

I tired to find out.. it has the sizing charts for the American site but I could'nt find it on the Europeon site, and the Japanese site was in a different laguage altogether..

[McJim]

Anyone know what the difference in spec is between a Shoei helmet for the American market, and a European market example?

I think the neck fitting is different to acommodate the obesity epidemic we hear about.:rofl:

[Maha]

Just out of interest, how do they determine the head sizes?

Do they run a working group, get a buch of people together and measure their noggins? What happends if some asian dudes show at the German group and screw up all the stats?


They just put the little tags on the inside and you choose either ....
SM/LG/XL or OMFG YOU GOT A BIG HEAD size, I know of only one that has the last size mentioned...and no it aint me.....:cool:

[Pussy]

I'm wondering about how different they would be. You can get Shoei XR1000 helmets from Suzuki, with GSX-R graphics on them. to source one from Europe, through SNZ, is about $1850.00, where the American version is US$600.00, plus getting it here. Would probably work out similar to a graphic XR-1000 here.
Any one got the definitive answer on the difference between US and Euro spec Shoeis?

[megageoff76]

You can get Shoei XR1000 helmets from Suzuki, with GSX-R graphics on them. to source one from Europe, through SNZ, is about $1850.00

OMG thats outrageous for a helmet, just cause it has GSXR on it. A fool and his money..

[White trash]

It's interesting that people get so obsessive about Arai when they only manufacture a limited range of helmets. I will never wear one.
Ya reckon Brett?

I've worn nothing except Arais for the past five years. I've wrecked 2 in this time, one of them looked like I'd been breakdancing on the motoray in it. Which funnily enough is what I had been doing.

I have never had a more comfortable helmet on my head. And working in a bike shop, I've trial fitted alot of different helmets.

Gladly pay the big bucks. They're mint.

[Katman]

The Arai Quantum I had years ago was one of the noisiest helmets I've ever owned (and certainly the most expensive at the time as well).

I've since realised that Arai and Shoei don't offer anything more then Shark or Suomy might, but they certainly do ask a whole lot more for their name.

[CHOPPA]

Ya reckon Brett?

I've worn nothing except Arais for the past five years. I've wrecked 2 in this time, one of them looked like I'd been breakdancing on the motoray in it. Which funnily enough is what I had been doing.

I have never had a more comfortable helmet on my head. And working in a bike shop, I've trial fitted alot of different helmets.

Gladly pay the big bucks. They're mint.


Couldnt agree more!!

[Trudes]

+2 for the Arai, I adore mine... and just out of interest, I bought mine from an on-line bike shope in the States because at the time none of the local shops had the design I wanted... fits like a glove.

[Katman]

Bunch of name-droppers. :msn-wink:

[xwhatsit]

RJays! At least they're Aussies :D

Or I suppose there's FFM.

[Forest]

Support your local bike shop.

I bought myself a BMW helmet and some BMW riding gear about two years ago.

I was able to fly to Seattle, buy the gear I wanted in the US, and fly back to NZ. All for less than the cost of the same gear through the local dealer.

I support local bike shops. But only when it is sensible to do so.

[Big Dave]

I bought myself a BMW helmet and some BMW riding gear about two years ago.

I was able to fly to Seattle, buy the gear I wanted in the US, and fly back to NZ. All for less than the cost of the same gear through the local dealer.

I support local bike shops. But only when it is sensible to do so.

Fortunately BMW have lifted their game.

[Owl]

I've since realised that Arai and Shoei don't offer anything more then Shark or Suomy might, but they certainly do ask a whole lot more for their name.

Actually they do offer more! Whatever the model, Arai has 1 shell size for every 2 head sizes (5 shell sizes in total). Shoei has 3 or 4 shell sizes, depending on model.

By comparison, Shark has 1-2 and Suomy has 1-3.

[skidMark]

Yeah right. They are all making millions.


Not just the money side of it.

When i worked for botany honda getting an arai from the wholesaler was like getting blood out a stone, hardley any stock. and if they ordered it they took literally months to arrive, fucking good helmets.

But useless backing here in NZ.

[skidMark]

The Arai Quantum I had years ago was one of the noisiest helmets I've ever owned (and certainly the most expensive at the time as well).

I've since realised that Arai and Shoei don't offer anything more then Shark or Suomy might, but they certainly do ask a whole lot more for their name.


Yep my suomy does the job! :niceone:

[skidMark]

They just put the little tags on the inside and you choose either ....
SM/LG/XL or OMFG YOU GOT A BIG HEAD size, I know of only one that has the last size mentioned...and no it aint me.....:cool:


Imagne trying to sell somebody a helmet, not being racist here just stating fact, and having to tell islander/maori. that they have to pay $20 more for a helmet because they have a different shaped head, because the cs10 etc you could go hugeee sizes, just not right for thier head, had to goto the other model (cant remember exact code sorry) and youd find one that fitted pretty easily. usually ended up giving them a discount to make it the price of the usual one so i didn't get my head boxed in lol.

[pritch]

If you actually build a relationship with a shop you get that back with interest.

2 hours ago.

'Hi Shane my speedo has stopped working'

'Drop it in and we'll replace the sensor.'

'Cool I have a few calls to do on Monday - can you lend me a bike for a few hours'

'Sure.'

And I get a discount on everything I buy.

Yep, that's been my experience.

If you bought a Honda though you wouldn't have to worry about crappy parts not working. :devil2:

[FJRider]

Welcome to the MAINLAND Mark. Well done

[Sollyboy]

An Arai dealer will service an Arai helmet (replace broken bits, clean and adjust) a NZ new Arai helmet every single day for free if you want to take it in every day.

Rubbish........

[imdying]

Rubbish........Perhaps they don't like you? That was the dealers response to the question 'Why would I buy one from him instead of from overseas?". He also tells me that not only will they provide that service, but they send their parts rep to the Arai dealer thingy every year so that he knows exactly what he's doing when he's providing the aforementioned service. I'm guessing it'll be the broken bits you have a hard time with? I doubt that their service covers abuse of course...

[geoffc]

I bought an Arai on the Internet 2 years ago & are very pleased with it. Having said that I would be very cautious of items purchased out of Hong Kong/China. They are masters at copying. Stickers and labels can make it look authentic but check details like the weight of the helmet which could give a clue. Does it match up with the advertised figures?

[Big Dave]

Yep, that's been my experience.

If you bought a Honda though you wouldn't have to worry about crappy parts not working. :devil2:

Ha. Just fixed it myself anyway - dirty connection.

[Jono25]

Watched A Programme On The Box Last Night About Chinese Knock-offs And Fake Counterfeit Products. Perhaps The Guy In Wellington Can Sell Helmets Cheap Because They Are Fakes. After All, From What I Can Make Out He Is Not An Offical Distributor Of The The Helmets He Is Selling So How Do You Know Where They Come From. We Are Talking About Our Lives Here So I Think I'll Stick To Getting My Helmets From Shops That I Know Are Reputable!

[Owl]

Watched A Programme On The Box Last Night About Chinese Knock-offs And Fake Counterfeit Products. Perhaps The Guy In Wellington Can Sell Helmets Cheap Because They Are Fakes. After All, From What I Can Make Out He Is Not An Offical Distributor Of The The Helmets He Is Selling So How Do You Know Where They Come From. We Are Talking About Our Lives Here So I Think I'll Stick To Getting My Helmets From Shops That I Know Are Reputable!

Fair enough sticking to a retail shop, however the helmets are genuine!

[boomer]

Yep, fair point, at the end of the day we're talking about your average head shape here, so some will fit great, others will not. Hence some people find Shoeis more comfortable, others may find Arais more comfortable.


whoa! stay away from the race card. :Pokey:
They can't drive, let alone ride 2-wheeled vehicles.

Merely stating the fact that my head might be different from yours. Same as everybody else.
By the way, I hope using oxymoron does not make you a moron.



I thought I'd play devil's advocate, so asked the question of Shoei regarding different shapes versus different territories:

"The shape of shell is same (using the same mold), but the material (a component ratio) is different. The interior is also different because the shapes of the head between European and Asian people is different."

The question here is not safety, Shoeis / Arais from any territory have to be, and will be, safe and legal. It's more a comfort issue. You can't blame Niaoniao for trying to make a buck when the currency is (was) strong, but I feel he's obligated to advise people that there is a difference, and that they may not receive after-sales service that proves his product good value for money.

So NZ'ers and the Islanders have to fit there coconut shaped heeeds into a skinny white boys helmet... poor fookahs! :confused:


read -

http://www.araihelmet-europe.com/php/page/index2.php?page=faq5

FWIW i imported my RX7, up to $700 cheaper (depending on what stealership you go into), and it is EXACTLY the same as the ones in the shop.

bwahahahha spot on


Anyone know what the difference in spec is between a Shoei helmet for the American market, and a European market example?

The difference on average is about 15 Stone :whistle:





we should all embrace free and open trade; however just like having a quickie.. sometimes not protecting yourself can bite you in the nads

[Jono25]

Fair enough sticking to a retail shop, however the helmets are genuine!

Fair enough but how do you know? It seems to me the only way you can be sure is if you buy them from an authorised dealer. If this guy was so up front why can't you visit him to try the helmets on. Why does he have to hide behind trademe if he is so genuine??? Just a thought.

[imdying]

Fair enough but how do you know? It seems to me the only way you can be sure is if you buy them from an authorised dealer. If this guy was so up front why can't you visit him to try the helmets on. Why does he have to hide behind trademe if he is so genuine??? Just a thought.Try reading the thread...

[CookMySock]

The onus actually is on the bike shop to build that relationship. The only thing they ask of the customer is that they buy their product. If the shop fails to meet their end of the bargain once something has been bought (within reason of course) then they deserve to go out of business.

I am always aware that without my customers my business has nothing.I don't think you need to be this hard on yourself Katman. You have your ethics and good character, and while many customers will see and respect this, many will not, and they will trample you and take what they can. It has been very difficult for me to tell these two groups of people apart, offering respect in turn where it was afforded to me, and protecting myself from those who would take advantage of me.

The customer is not always right.

DB

[DVS 69]

I brought a Arai helmet and have found it to be the best ive ever had, didnt relise how crappy my old hjc fitted till i tried the arai in contrast the arai fits like a helmet should and the hjc wasnt ever my head shape. Iam really happy with it.:devil2:

[Dodger]

So, if I have two friends, one with longer head and one with rounder head, both europeans.

hmmmm. you live in a strange land...

[imdying]

hmmmm. you live in a strange land...

Oh that's comedy gold that is :rofl:

[Katman]

The customer is not always right.



And I never suggested they were. The secret is to find out how to nicely let them know they're wrong. :msn-wink:

But, I'll reiterate the fact that, without my customers my business has nothing - it would not exist. If more bike shops realised this there'd be a whole lot less pissed off customers.

[PrincessBandit]

hmmmm. you live in a strange land...

What a classic. Nearly sprayed my coffee all over the keyboard.

p.s. Balu is very happy with his Shoei, I'm very happy with my Shark, and I still have my FFM sitting on the shelf awaiting the day it might ever be required again. Gotta go with what fits well and makes you feel confident that if the unthinkable happens you can rely on it to do it's job, regardless of the logo/graphics/brand etc. (Cool does not necessarily equate with safe, and I wouldn't want a Shoei multitec unless they were the only think on offer and they were compulsory - just think they look weird, but thats only my opinion).
**PB now runs away to hide**

[Marmoot]

hmmmm. you live in a strange land...

Obviously one of them is yellow and the other is brownish.
Not very european-like. Perhaps more from the orient?

[boomer]

Obviously one of them is yellow and the other is brownish.
Not very european-like. Perhaps more from the orient?

they look a lot like the Europeans I've seen Marmoot....!! :crazy:

[Marmoot]

they look a lot like the Europeans I've seen Marmoot....!! :crazy:

hmmmm. you live in a strange land... :blink:

[Owl]

Fair enough but how do you know? It seems to me the only way you can be sure is if you buy them from an authorised dealer. If this guy was so up front why can't you visit him to try the helmets on. Why does he have to hide behind trademe if he is so genuine??? Just a thought.

You can’t try the helmets on because he doesn’t stock them Jono! He has them drop shipped directly from Hong Kong to your door.
As for authenticity, I took the liberty of deconstructing my (niao’s) helmet over the weekend and checked for the Arai markings on the inside of the shell. They’re there and only visible when the EPS liner is removed. I also gave it the axe test (it took a beating) and then cut the shell in half. Everything stacks up as it should with triple laminated construction and aramid reinforcing.
This helmet was not serviceable before I destroyed it!!!

[Big Dave]

This helmet was not serviceable before I destroyed it!!!

But It would have been way funnier if it was.

[Owl]

But It would have been way funnier if it was.

Funny for some Dave, but complete stupidity from where I sit.:laugh:
I'm not that keen to prove a point!

[Big Dave]

I've seen them after they have been cut open - never done it though - have visions of half a helmet and a circular saw flying through the air.

[Owl]

Hacksaw much safer!:msn-wink:

[Big Dave]

Hacksaw much safer!:msn-wink:

No torque.

[Owl]

No torque.

Sure you're not Tim the toolman Taylor? You could rig something with a Rocket III starter motor!:whistle:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fuckity Fuck.

this whole "different shapes for different markets" thing has bitten me on the arse.

I got the August Two Wheels at the weekend and on p105 there is MY NEW HELMET. An ad for an Arai Vector with the 1983-84 (pre Rothmans) Freddie Spencer colour scheme. (the Rothmans one has darker colours and the Blue on top rather than red) Above it is a Schwantz replica.

So I rocked into my local emporium yesterday morning saying "Want"!!!!!! like a two year old.

They have a Schwantz rep, which I tried on, and which fitted me at least as well as my current helmet (Shoei Raid 2) which is the most comfortable-est helmet I've EVER had. I'll take it, I said, but you have to get me the Spencer colourscheme.

No worries, they'll call me back.

The call came and its "Sorry, no can do".

This is where it gets odd. Apparently in NZ we get one version of Arai helmet: European from memory. And in Straya they get a different market spec (US?) which is different models, different paint schemes etc. What they are advertising in Straya is a VECTOR. What I tried on in the shop is a CHASER. Confusingly, both are available in Schwantz rep, but only one is available in Spencer rep. That Straya gets the Spencer rep (US market) is perhaps not surprising I suppose, but I am majorly pissed off.

Ive rung Peter Stevens in Melbourne to check price and availability, but I am very reluctant to mail order a helmet. Basically it becomes a $1000 ornament if it gets here and doesnt fit.

GAH!

Anyone tried on a Vector?

[imdying]

Yus, I have a friend with an Arai Chaser/Vector/whatever the hell it's called... the NZ fitment and the US fitment, both in medium, both fitted his swede find. He tried it on here, I brought the unusual colour scheme back from the states, job done. Totally ghey it wasn't available locally, but that's life.

[Marmoot]

I normally use RX7 size 55-56.
I used someone else's chaser size 55-56 once and I nearly fainted after a few minutes.
Ended up getting to where I was going, stopped the bike, and totally collapsed. Dropping the bike in the process.
Short of breath and lightheaded.

[Kiwi Graham]

Bought my Aoyama rep Corsair-V from the America only difference being the price! $495 cheaper!!! Delivered!!

This is my 5th Arai, tried to get a good price here in NZ but you cant pass up $500 eh!