Auckland police too busy?

[Maki]

A young boy was attacked and strangled in Auckland 2 weeks ago. Since then the police have been too busy to do anything. (A passerby got the number plate of the attacker.)

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10512322

Do you live in Auckland? Do you have any idea what the police are so busy doing? Could it be harassing riders and drivers who might be doing 10km and hour or so above the legal limit (while not doing anything about irresponsible twats who are texting or talking in their cell phones and not even paying attention to what they are doing, but don't get me started on that one...)

So, any ideas? Are the police too busy chasing madmen who are 10km above the posted limit to deal with stranglers of young children?

[awayatc]

It is indeed dispicable...I had once something like that happening and filed an official complaint in writing to the police complaints authorithy....I got a real nice police officer visiting a few times, apologising etc.
But people need to react if they want things to change.....
Complain in writing, go visit your local MP, especialy so close to election
time....

Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not do sit by and do nothing..........

[Dave Lobster]

There's often a good handful of coppers sitting next to the tyre shop on Fanshawe st in the city. Quite often an unmarked one and a regular jam sandwich one.
No.. not nicking red light jumpers at the lights where there's a get together EVERY morning, but nicking people speeding past the BP garage. Fucking ludicrous.

[mowgli]

Reads to me like an unfortunate coincidence to me. The attending officer became indisposed (injured in the line of duty perhaps?) before the incident was entered into the Police system. I agree that another officer should have been tasked with re-establishing the details once it was realised that the ball had been dropped.

Generally I think our Police have a rough deal putting up with some awful things and with little thanks. Folks are more inclined to beat up on their mistakes than to commend their successes. I wouldn't want to do their job. I'm grateful that they chose to do the things most of us wouldn't want to.

[riffer]

To be honest, if there were more general duties and beat cops you wouldn't notice the ones sitting around waiting for speedsters. Like it or not, its part of police policy.

Have a think about how much the petrol price increases have impacted on police budgets. Remember, the Minister of Finance allocates a budget each May for the next year. It doesn't go up if petrol prices increase. The budget shortfall must be met somehow - its most likely through not replacing some officers who retire or are indisposed.

Add to that the amount of murder investigations that take up masses of police personnel.

It all adds up.

[Dave Lobster]

Ah, just to clarify my last post.. It wasn't a dig at policemen per se. More a dig at the policy they've been handed of criminalising people that aren't setting out to commit crime - ie targeting crime that creates income.

[Maki]

There's often a good handful of coppers sitting next to the tyre shop on Fanshawe st in the city. Quite often an unmarked one and a regular jam sandwich one.
No.. not nicking red light jumpers at the lights where there's a get together EVERY morning, but nicking people speeding past the BP garage. Fucking ludicrous.

They could obviously care less about traffic safety.

[riffer]

They could obviously care less about traffic safety.

Just because you follow subscribed policy doesn't necessarily mean you agree with the politics behind it Maki.

[Maki]

Just because you follow subscribed policy doesn't necessarily mean you agree with the politics behind it Maki.

A truer word was rarely spoken. The politics make me sick.

[Dave Lobster]

Just because you follow subscribed policy doesn't necessarily mean you agree with the politics behind it Maki.

What about having the balls to walk away from a job because you disagree with what you're being asked to do?

[McJim]

A truer word was rarely spoken. The politics make me sick.

So don't eat 'em. (To be honest I find a lot of policies hard to swallow anyway!):rofl:

Let's not have another cop beat up thread eh?

[Maha]

(To be honest I find a lot of policies hard to swallow anyway!):rofl:


Is that the Italian way of saying Police??
If so, then may I suggest you get 'Lower' when rewarding said officer for letting you off in such a manor...:lol:

[mowgli]

Have a think about how much the petrol price increases have impacted on police budgets. Remember, the Minister of Finance allocates a budget each May for the next year. It doesn't go up if petrol prices increase. The budget shortfall must be met somehow - its most likely through not replacing some officers who retire or are indisposed.

You'll probably find that the Police Personnel budget is separate from their operating budget so that personnel numbers are not affected by operating costs. It works like that in one other government agency I know.

[Maki]

So don't eat 'em. (To be honest I find a lot of policies hard to swallow anyway!):rofl:

Let's not have another cop beat up thread eh?

Yes, let's all just shut up and accept the fact that cops are too "busy" to investigate violent crime against children.

[Toaster]

A fair chunk of the police you see in the yellow and blue cars are there because their role and equipment is funded for traffic duties only. Don't forget the MOT was rolled into the police in the early 1990's - purely a traffic role. At least the traffic staff can and do get used for GDB back up when needed... something we did not have when the MOT existed.

If that huge part of the overall police budget was removed then you'd be back down to the GDB response staff only - you'd never see them because they are busy with domestics, arguments, fights, disorder, robberies, burglaries, disputes, thefts, idiots, twats, morons, nutters, suicides, complaints, whingers and sudden death investigations etc etc etc - its a busy and thankless role many of you seem to forget.

Traffic offenders are not "criminals" and the offenses commited (like speeding)do not fall under either the Summary Offences Act or the Crimes Act.

If you don't want a traffic offence against your name then slow down and give the cops more justification to argue with the government to allow more resources be allocated into CIB and general duties policing.

For those that feel cops should not ticket speeders at 11km/h over the limit, then when should they ticket them? Why have a speed limit then if it won't be enforced? There has to be a limit somewhere and you can't leave it to individual discretion - how would we as riders then know what each individual cop would consider reasonable? Some will do you for 20+ and other rather zealous cops will do you for 5+.

[Toaster]

Also remember the detectives - they have numerous cases before them, heavy workloads often made worse by false complaints and lengthy trials and they prioritise their cases based on all sorts of factors. Remember the media fail to report that point - only what sells papers and sensationalises things.

[Robbo]

Excellent post Toaster. We should be venting our anger at the Criminals and Arseholes who are actually doing these deeds and not at the people who are doing their best to protect us under usually difficult situations that i am sure most of us would'nt ever want to take on.
As for the speed limits, yes, there has to be a figure set to work to. You will usually find that a little discretion is given in most cases and if you get caught and booked occassionally it is because you crossed that line and just think about the many times that you have done this and got away with it. Law of averages i guess.
With the ever increasing crime rates we need more police numbers to deal with this. Government has always promised us this prior to elections but once in power they don't seem to give a toss. I guess the daily crime does'nt personally affect politicians who live in an upmarket and secure enviornment paid for by us suckers so why should they care.
Any Party who actually addresses Law and Order in this country will get my vote, but i'm not holding my breath.

[devnull]

Good post Toaster...

While most of the cops on the street really are trying to do a good job, they appear to be hamstrung by govt policies and their own hierarchy. Who remembers Doonegate? Politicians meddling with police structure at its worst.

What's happening now is that people are losing faith with the police.
Instead, the message seems to be that if you want justice, you'll extract it yourself.

To be fair, that's not entirely the fault of police. Our justice system has become so perverted that it favours criminals over victims.

I found this article quite good:
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest95.htm

Until we see a return to traditional policing, where the police and the community work together, it seems that vigilantism is the best option.
As the bloke that shot at those little scumbags proved, you shouldn't shoot to stop their vehicle... Aim higher, and give some thought to disposing of the bodies...

Otherwise you'll be the one in court, instead of the offenders :(

[Kiwifire72]

this is fire kiwis wife replying .....................
Go wk for the police an then you will find out how busy they are..............
An if you did get rego of the plate did you follow it up at the station?
If so then they will be dealing with the incident.

[The Pastor]

A fair chunk of the police you see in the yellow and blue cars are there because their role and equipment is funded for traffic duties only. Don't forget the MOT was rolled into the police in the early 1990's - purely a traffic role. At least the traffic staff can and do get used for GDB back up when needed... something we did not have when the MOT existed.

If that huge part of the overall police budget was removed then you'd be back down to the GDB response staff only - you'd never see them because they are busy with domestics, arguments, fights, disorder, robberies, burglaries, disputes, thefts, idiots, twats, morons, nutters, suicides, complaints, whingers and sudden death investigations etc etc etc - its a busy and thankless role many of you seem to forget.

Traffic offenders are not "criminals" and the offenses commited (like speeding)do not fall under either the Summary Offences Act or the Crimes Act.

If you don't want a traffic offence against your name then slow down and give the cops more justification to argue with the government to allow more resources be allocated into CIB and general duties policing.

For those that feel cops should not ticket speeders at 11km/h over the limit, then when should they ticket them? Why have a speed limit then if it won't be enforced? There has to be a limit somewhere and you can't leave it to individual discretion - how would we as riders then know what each individual cop would consider reasonable? Some will do you for 20+ and other rather zealous cops will do you for 5+.
cruiser riders tells us to slow down...... i think its just jelousy of our bikes going faster than a walking pace!

[SixPackBack]

Also remember the detectives - they have numerous cases before them, heavy workloads often made worse by false complaints and lengthy trials and they prioritise their cases based on all sorts of factors. Remember the media fail to report that point - only what sells papers and sensationalises things.

Oh please STOP!........really my heart bleeds custard for our poor underresourced police force-NOT!
Perhaps the media should not have reported the cartwright report or the dodgy 'baton coppers' as well, perhaps also after some appalling police work on the recent Kahui trial we should also make excuses or perhaps even change the law? I call bullshit.
The public perception of the police is real. Should an individual have a minor traffic incident or have their house broken into the tepid response from the force does not match the Nazi like attitude to minimal speeding.
'Tis up to the police to change their culture and to realign behaviour with public expectations.

[Sanx]

If you don't want a traffic offence against your name then slow down and give the cops more justification to argue with the government to allow more resources be allocated into CIB and general duties policing.

Perhaps a far better argument to redirect resources into general policing and away from traffic would be that the heavier enforcement witnessed over the last few years, together with a lowering of the average open road and urban speed has resulted in a higher road toll and massively increased injury figures (and therefore ACC claims). If Police management had an ounce of common sense and decency, they would be arguing this themselves, rather than continuing to support the revenue-generation policies of Labour.

After all, what is the principal role of the traffic police? To maximise road safety or generate as much revenue as possible?

There's additional arguments as well:

If the Police concentrated on general policing and not traffic, and introduced guidelines to the remaining traffic officers (in words of one syllable, obviously, to cope with the officers hired under the jobs-for-the-terminally-stupid equal opportunities policy (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1526419#post1526419)) instructing them to concentrate on bad driving, rather than speeding, the general public might begin to trust them again.
Once trust begins to get re-established, the Police would reap the benefits of increased public co-operation on matters that do have some importance.
With increased public co-operation, the Police would be more effective in targetting real crime: gangs, drug production, etc.


None of this is rocket science. However, the mad mullahs in charge of the Police, like that wet gimp Howard Broad, think only of pleasing their political masters, rather than actually trying to work for the benefit of the citizens of New Zealand. They're lackeys, pure and simple.

[Toaster]

'Tis up to the police to change their culture and to realign behaviour with public expectations.


I sure hope not considering some public opinion is clearly retarded, uneducated, mere one-eyed bitterness because they got a speeding ticket for their own stupidity.

The Kahui trial was as good as they could get with the very limited evidence they had. Evidence doesn't magically appear if it simply doesn't exist. Or being the expert armchair lawyer you'd know better right?

What they had was not enough to avoid reasonable doubt and hence the finding of Kahui having to be given a finding not guilty.

[Toaster]

Excellent post Toaster. We should be venting our anger at the Criminals and Arseholes who are actually doing these deeds and not at the people who are doing their best to protect us under usually difficult situations that i am sure most of us would'nt ever want to take on.

Well said Robbo. Interesting how its often the same criminals and families before the police and the courts... costing us taxpayers over and over again.

Same with prolific traffic law offenders.... like those alcoholics caught drink driving many many times or those who continually lose their licence for demerits and yet they keep doing it regardless of permanent disqualification - they just don't care or learn.

[SixPackBack]

I sure hope not considering some public opinion is clearly retarded, uneducated, mere one-eyed bitterness because they got a speeding ticket for their own stupidity.

...........And as long as the police hold opinions such as your own the public will continue to dislike them and the police will continue to wonder why.
And Toaster it sounds like you're taking my post a little personally, if you think 'my one-eyed bitterness'[as you call my observations] comes from a speeding ticket it is you who is stupid. As previously stated public opinion has been badly damaged by:

The cartwright report-confirming the police believe they can behave how they like when not on duty.
The louise Nichols case-an assistant commissioner of police behaving if not illegally certainly immorally. What made this worse was government knowledge of the accusations.
The Kahui case-with the resources of the crown its hard to understand how the police could have made so many mistakes, once they dropped the ball calls for law changes went out.
A belligerent, attitude to speeding-perhaps the only time the general public will see the police is when getting pulled over for minimal speeding, IF only the public had the same prompt service when criminals break into their house/car.
Arrogant attitudes to public feedback-the public are 'morons/stupid/fuck-wits etc. The public are in fact the police's masters, without their support the country would quickly slip into anarchy.

[Sanx]

I sure hope not considering some public opinion is clearly retarded, uneducated, mere one-eyed bitterness because they got a speeding ticket for their own stupidity.

And public opinion and co-operation is essential for the Police to do their jobs properly. The cops might not like it, but that's how it is.


The Kahui trial was as good as they could get with the very limited evidence they had. Evidence doesn't magically appear if it simply doesn't exist. Or being the expert armchair lawyer you'd know better right?

BULLSHIT! First off, the Police didn't interview anyone for a few days in order to be culturally-sensitive and allow the family time to grieve. Then the family began stonewalling. Instead of arresting the whole f'ing lot of them on suspiscion, the cops sat on their arses and wrung their hands about how the family weren't co-operating. They didn't formally interview the mother for 4.5 months! The handling of this case by the Police seemed to be one fuck-up after another.

Given the pitiful evidence finally collected by the cops - if they'd gone looking a bit earlier and pushed the suspects harder, they might have got something - it's hardly surprising the prosecution didn't get a conviction. But the blame for the almighty screw-ups lies with the Police themselves for treating the family with kid gloves, rather than going in hard and fast.

[Swoop]

(injured in the line of duty perhaps?)
Choking on a donut?:whistle:

What's happening now is that people are losing faith with the police.

Aim higher, and give some thought to disposing of the bodies...
Lost faith.
There are plenty of places in the Urewera's suitable for shallow graves.
Better to be tried by twelve than carried by six (as the saying goes).


But the blame for the almighty screw-ups lies with the Police themselves for treating the family with kid gloves, rather than going in hard and fast.
The suggested immediate solution to police prosecution failures, is... "let's remove the citizen's right to silence!!"
Great idea... Not!

[oldrider]

If that ever happens to my grandkids and I catch the guy, I suspect there will thousands of police there within seconds! :shifty: John.

[Indoo]

And public opinion and co-operation is essential for the Police to do their jobs properly. The cops might not like it, but that's how it is.

Yep, thats fair enough when Public opinion is based on at least a bare recognition of the facts and on a semblance of reality rather than just 'if I was a cop I would have arrested them all on (insert some made up law which you think should exist but actually doesn't here).


Instead of arresting the whole f'ing lot of them on suspiscion, the cops sat on their arses and wrung their hands about how the family weren't co-operating.

I'm not sure if your mentally deranged, drunk or just a retard. You can't arrest people in this country for suspicion (and of what?), and to suggest that the 30 odd cops on the murder team were just playing the situation because they would rather moan to the pro police media in this country is just beyond ridiculous (although keeping with the retard tone)


They didn't formally interview the mother for 4.5 months! The handling of this case by the Police seemed to be one fuck-up after another

Tell me how you would do it differently, I guess you already have, if you were in charge of the inquiry you would invent laws, elect yourself pm and enact some laws with the backing of your caucus (whom you have also imagined) and pass said laws..

Its so simple really when you think about it, kinda like you and a proportion of other posters in this thread who have no clue and haven't the balls or inclination to ever have one.

[Maki]

The Kahui case was so badly handled that whoever wasted tax payer money investigating that should no longer have a job. That person or persons are a waste of space.

I read this:
http://www.nzcpr.com/guest95.htm

"A comparison between New Zealand and the US is sobering. The latest available violent crime statistics for New Zealand (pop 4 million) show a standardised rate of 1322 violent offences per100,000 population. The FBI violent crime figures for the U.S (Pop 300 million) work out at 466 violent offences per 100,000 population. In other words, New Zealand is presently 2.8 times more violent than the US."

I didn't realize how bad things are. It lowers my already poor opinion of the current government and the police. The government have done all they can to sweep this under the carpet instead of doing something about it.

I guess the answer is to mete out your own justice. If you or yours are offended against don't call the police. Call the mongrel mob. You may have to pay them a little something but in return they will take care of business.

[Indoo]

The Kahui case was so badly handled that whoever wasted tax payer money investigating that should no longer have a job. That person or persons are a waste of space.

And you can of course explain exactly why it was so badly handled and what you would have done differently?

Given you've already made the claim you clearly already know the answer, or you'd be just another full of shit blowhard, which your not right?

[Maki]

And you can of course explain exactly why it was so badly handled and what you would have done differently?

Given you've already made the claim you clearly already know the answer, or you'd be just another full of shit blowhard, which your not right?

I would have interviewed those who were in a position to harm the twins ASAP, followed up on leads (such as taped confessions) and I would have arrested those who were responsible for taking care of the twins for failing to provide the necessities of life (they were malnourished with previously broken bones).

I would never have prosecuted Chris Kahui with nothing in my hands to prove he did anything. The case was a farce and it was a waste of my money and your money.

I does not take a genius to see that the people responsible for investigating this case should be doing something other than police work. They simply do not have what it takes. Don't tell me you think they did a good job.

[scumdog]

To all those that post 'cops always screw it up' posts on KB??

Sign up, go to Porirua for your 5 months training - and then get out there and show us retards in the Police how it SHOULD be done...without mistakes and NO traffic work....well, what's stopping you??.:rolleyes:

Oh, and I'll keep on doing what I do at work until then - as long as you lot pay me.:jerry:

[Maki]

To all those that post 'cops always screw it up' posts on KB??

Sign up, go to Porirua for your 5 months training - and then get out there and show us retards in the Police how it SHOULD be done...without mistakes and NO traffic work....well, what's stopping you??.:rolleyes:

Oh, and I'll keep on doing what I do at work until then - as long as you lot pay me.:jerry:

Would love to. Just can't afford it. I have a family to support....

I think most policemen are good honest people who want to improve society. Too bad some of them are not, and the others don't seem to have the support they need.

[Dave Lobster]

I think most policemen are good honest people who want to improve society. Too bad some of them are not, and the others don't seem to have the support they need.

+1. I've only had need to meet one policeman in this country so far. And, he asked me the most retarded questions a policeman has ever asked me.

Why are you swerving all over the road? (I was on a bike, and positioning myself for maximum visibility. A quality policeman wouldn't have needed to ask this. He'd have known. It's on the most basic of ANY driving/riding course)

Don't you think 120km/h is fast? (On a clear open road with no pedestrians for ten km, no, frankly I don't. My laughing didn't stop them coming)

Do you know how many people are killed in accidents on this road? (Suspecting he means crashes, rather than blame free accidents, of course I f*cking don')

He couldn't tell me how many were related to speed rather than incompetence and/or an unroadworthy vehicle. Which I thought was a far better question.

[Swoop]

I would have interviewed those who were in a position to harm the twins ASAP, followed up on leads (such as taped confessions)...
I would never have prosecuted Chris Kahui with nothing in my hands to prove he did anything. The case was a farce and it was a waste of my money and your money.
Quicker than six months? You are over qualified for the force by showing such common sense.

Who wouuld want to get paid crap wages to join the plod? Up the pay and they might not have to recruit spotty-faced kids. (Anyone else see Motroway Patrol last week? How old was that <STRIKE>Policeman</STRIKE> Policeboy?)

[Toaster]

Who wouuld want to get paid crap wages to join the plod? Up the pay and they might not have to recruit spotty-faced kids. (Anyone else see Motroway Patrol last week? How old was that <STRIKE>Policeman</STRIKE> Policeboy?)

Agreed. The starting wage for a young "new cop" is great, but once you have a family and mortgage etc its much harder to survive when the pay rises by a very small increment each year - failing to recognise the value of experience gained in the process. The pay rounds barely keep up with accumulated general inflation let alone localised inflation.

[Toaster]

To all those that post 'cops always screw it up' posts on KB??

Sign up, go to Porirua for your 5 months training - and then get out there and show us retards in the Police how it SHOULD be done...without mistakes and NO traffic work....well, what's stopping you??.:rolleyes:

Oh, and I'll keep on doing what I do at work until then - as long as you lot pay me.:jerry:

They could always be posted to Porirua station on graduation... that would shut them up real fast.

[Indoo]

I would have interviewed those who were in a position to harm the twins ASAP, followed up on leads (such as taped confessions) and I would have arrested those who were responsible for taking care of the twins for failing to provide the necessities of life (they were malnourished with previously broken bones).

So you think that the detectives didn't try and interview the family as soon as they could and didn't follow up any leads?

In this country you cannot force someone to be interviewed, they can and as the Kahui's showed refuse to be interviewed or even speak to the Police, hence giving rise to all the tight 12 and wall of silence hoopla which you must have missed.


I does not take a genius to see that the people responsible for investigating this case should be doing something other than police work. They simply do not have what it takes. Don't tell me you think they did a good job.

But as you've already shown you have no clue about the basics of police work, or even the laws in this country, let alone what it takes to be a detective in South Auckland. Its not CSI Miami when Police can just haul people in and then gain confessions to fit in a neat 60 minute package.

[scumdog]

I does not take a genius to see that the people responsible for investigating this case should be doing something other than police work. They simply do not have what it takes. Don't tell me you think they did a good job.

I've ignore the previous prepubescent ramblings and cut to the above comment.

So how many years WERE you doing the job to know these guys 'simply do not have what it takes'?:bleh:

("I does not take a genius" - take one where??)

Or do you have some sort of black-belt in the 'Monday morning quarter-back' club?:pinch:

BTW: You fall into that classic cliched KB noob club - has less than a 100 posts and rides a 250......

Or are you just a troll??

[Pixie]

Do you live in Auckland? Do you have any idea what the police are so busy doing?

Visiting and apologising to PCA compainants. (see post #2 )

[Ixion]

I would have interviewed those who were in a position to harm the twins ASAP, followed up on leads (such as taped confessions) and I would have arrested those who were responsible for taking care of the twins for failing to provide the necessities of life (they were malnourished with previously broken bones).

I would never have prosecuted Chris Kahui with nothing in my hands to prove he did anything. The case was a farce and it was a waste of my money and your money.

I does not take a genius to see that the people responsible for investigating this case should be doing something other than police work. They simply do not have what it takes. Don't tell me you think they did a good job.

Unfortunately, as in most things, life is more complicated than we would have it.

The cops can't interview anyone in NZ (some rare exceptions, not applicable here), unless they are willing to be interviewed. "You do not have to say anything ...". And had they arrested the parents on a lesser charge they would have pretty much shut down any hope of getting people to talk about the deaths.

I suspect that , in private, the police prosecutors would agree with you that they should not have prosecuted Mr Kahui. But , think now, if they had said "Sorry, we're not going to charge anyone over these two childrens' deaths"? What a storm of public indignation there would have been then. They had to charge *someone*. The public would not let them do otherwise.

And deaths of children are always going to be hard to prove. The classic criteria for "who dun it" of motive, opportunity and capability are all usually inadequate. Usually a number of people who could have hit them. Motive is meaningless, because there can never be any. And capability, well any adult (or even a child) can kill a baby very easily. And whatever is done is usually done in private. Only the perpetrator and the (dead) victim present. So, no witnesses.

And the cops can't just "arrest everyone in sight on suspicion". Obviously, everyone is arrested "on suspicion" (because they haven't been found guilty yet) ; but cops must have some grounds to arrest anyone . To do otherwise would make them liable for an action for wrongful arrest.

It sucks, but that's sort of the definition of real life sometimes.

[jahrasti]

Unfortunately, as in most things, life is more complicated than we would have it.

The cops can't interview anyone in NZ (some rare exceptions, not applicable here), unless they are willing to be interviewed. "You do not have to say anything ...". And had they arrested the parents on a lesser charge they would have pretty much shut down any hope of getting people to talk about the deaths.

I suspect that , in private, the police prosecutors would agree with you that they should not have prosecuted Mr Kahui. But , think now, if they had said "Sorry, we're not going to charge anyone over these two childrens' deaths"? What a storm of public indignation there would have been then. They had to charge *someone*. The public would not let them do otherwise.

And deaths of children are always going to be hard to prove. The classic criteria for "who dun it" of motive, opportunity and capability are all usually inadequate. Usually a number of people who could have hit them. Motive is meaningless, because there can never be any. And capability, well any adult (or even a child) can kill a baby very easily. And whatever is done is usually done in private. Only the perpetrator and the (dead) victim present. So, no witnesses.

And the cops can't just "arrest everyone in sight on suspicion". Obviously, everyone is arrested "on suspicion" (because they haven't been found guilty yet) ; but cops must have some grounds to arrest anyone . To do otherwise would make them liable for an action for wrongful arrest.

It sucks, but that's sort of the definition of real life sometimes.


You know IXION I don't agree with alot of your posts, but this is very good.
Half reporting usually is the main factor in forging public opinion on a subject.

[Maki]

I've ignore the previous prepubescent ramblings and cut to the above comment.

So how many years WERE you doing the job to know these guys 'simply do not have what it takes'?:bleh:

("I does not take a genius" - take one where??)

Or do you have some sort of black-belt in the 'Monday morning quarter-back' club?:pinch:

BTW: You fall into that classic cliched KB noob club - has less than a 100 posts and rides a 250......

Or are you just a troll??

If I could come up with nothing better than making accusations like noob, troll, monday morning quarterback, etc, then I would keep my mouth shut. Factual discussions and opinions are fine. If you spread dirt you just end up with a lot sticking to yourself and a bad smell. That's why I don't stoop to it myself. Feel free to continue in the same manner. You judge yourself by your actions.

[98tls]

Given that in the major centers an awful lot of police time is wasted following up 111 calls that are simply a waste of time then maybe we could off-set that by those that continually and so heroically :sleep:rubbish cops on here could instead of wasting interweb space talking about it just agree to not bother using the services the cops offer no matter what there problem at the time.:niceone:Instead of bitch moaning make a stand.:niceone:

[Indoo]

[QUOTE=Maki;1579667 If you spread dirt you just end up with a lot sticking to yourself and a bad smell. That's why I don't stoop to it myself. .[/QUOTE]

Which is funny coming from the guy who stated that all the cops involved in the Kahui trial should be dismissed because they weren't up to the job. And when questioned about it claimed he would have simply kidnapped the suspects, forced them to undergo an unlawful interview (in which they all of course confess CSI styles) and then gain a conviction.

Its just so easy.

[SixPackBack]

Its kinda sad that any perceived criticism of the police [often presented in a constructive fashion] quickly turns into a shit fight.
Not once have we seen an acceptance that performance could be better or that any kind of issue even exists. Kinda sad really!

[98tls]

Its kinda sad that any perceived criticism of the police [often presented in a constructive fashion] quickly turns into a shit fight.
Not once have we seen an acceptance that performance could be better or that any kind of issue even exists. Kinda sad really!
What i find sad is that its always about coppers.Fuck me the last time i used a public toilet it crossed my mind that whoever is paid to clean it could do better but see no point in discussing it on a motorcycle based website.Continual :crybaby:about them wont change a thing.

[SixPackBack]

What i find sad is that its always about coppers.Fuck me the last time i used a public toilet it crossed my mind that whoever is paid to clean it could do better but see no point in discussing it on a motorcycle based website.Continual :crybaby:about them wont change a thing.

A dirty toilet is mere inconvenience. A dirty [perhaps under-performing would be a more agreeable term] officer can change, perhaps completely ruin an individuals life-the police carry a huge burden of responsibility!

Discussion changes process. This website has a great deal of officers logging on every day, undoubtedly KB is monitored in some way [ATNR confirms this] by the police and by voicing our concerns a good copper has an opportunity to change not only their approach but also a colleagues approach as well.

The challenge for KBers is to behave in a constructive manner, the challenge for coppers is to take our concerns seriously. I would also add that most of us have respect for the force.

[98tls]

A dirty toilet is mere inconvenience. A dirty [perhaps under-performing would be a more agreeable term] officer can change, perhaps completely ruin an individuals life-the police carry a huge burden of responsibility!

Discussion changes process. This website has a great deal of officers logging on every day, undoubtedly KB is monitored in some way [ATNR confirms this] by the police and by voicing our concerns a good copper has an opportunity to change not only their approach but also a colleagues approach as well.

The challenge for KBers is to behave in a constructive manner, the challenge for coppers is to take our concerns seriously. I would also add that most of us have respect for the force. Not a bad post really,on saturday i attended my auntys funeral up in ch-ch,her husband is a retired copper and she has 3 sons that are cops which resulted in a huge police attendance at the funeral,afterwards at the do got yapping with a few both serving and retired cops and at some stage the topic of public perception of cops came up (as it would)the answer from both young and old was the same really "spend a day in these shoes" basically.Theres going to be the odd bad pumpkin in every patch but i believe many cops develop an attitude simply because they have to deal with so many shitheads day in day out and to be honest looking at many of todays youth and there actions then i dont blame em.To me most cops do there best with what they have at there disposal,if theres anyone to blame i suggest it should be directed at the people supposedly running this country.I use the term running lightly.

[scumdog]

If I could come up with nothing better than making accusations like noob, troll, monday morning quarterback, etc, then I would keep my mouth shut...........


Lemme paint a picture.

A whole bunch of guys from all walks of life sitting around in a bar, some maybe having a drink or two.

All know each other, have a common interest and are comfortable with each others opinions, leg-pulling and stirring - even the awkward ones are accepted in the group, after all, they've been in each others company on and off for quite a while.

All of a sudden the bat-wing doors fly open and a young stranger noisily strides in looking around himself, he sees several discussions taking place and one or two subjects prick his interest so he strolls over to one group.

After listening for a minute he chimes in with his thoughts and opinions, he loudly tells a few members of a group how they don't know what they're doing, they're incompetent and so are their workmates, he criticises all they've just said and tells the group how they SHOULD be doing things and if they don't do them the way he thinks they should be done then they're out of line and should be thrown out.

And then when a few of the group offer some sage 'advice' this stranger stands back and looks hurt - before ripping back into members of the group for having the nerve to criticise his thoughts and opinions

Does anybody see a similarity to any thread on KB??:rolleyes:

[scumdog]

If I could come up with nothing better than making accusations like noob, troll, monday morning quarterback, etc, then I would keep my mouth shut. Factual discussions and opinions are fine. If you spread dirt you just end up with a lot sticking to yourself and a bad smell. That's why I don't stoop to it myself. Feel free to continue in the same manner. You judge yourself by your actions.

You really haven't been on this site long, have you??:bleh:
noob.

I started a constructive 'factual' rebuttal of the above but just couldn't be bothered.............:rolleyes:

Besides, it doesn't sound like I would be allowed an opinon different to yours anyway.

[scumdog]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS]The challenge for KBers is to behave in a constructive manner, the challenge for coppers is to take our concerns seriously. I would also add that most of us have respect for the force.

Meh, I don't get paid to do 'challenges' maybe somebody else will oblige??:lol:

[spudchucka]

Lemme paint a picture.

A whole bunch of guys from all walks of life sitting around in a bar, some maybe having a drink or two.

All know each other, have a common interest and are comfortable with each others opinions, leg-pulling and stirring - even the awkward ones are accepted in the group, after all, they've been in each others company on and off for quite a while.

All of a sudden the bat-wing doors fly open and a young stranger noisily strides in looking around himself, he sees several discussions taking place and one or two subjects prick his interest so he strolls over to one group.

After listening for a minute he chimes in with his thoughts and opinions, he loudly tells a few members of a group how they don't know what they're doing, they're incompetent and so are their workmates, he criticises all they've just said and tells the group how they SHOULD be doing things and if they don't do them the way he thinks they should be done then they're out of line and should be thrown out.

And then when a few of the group offer some sage 'advice' this stranger stands back and looks hurt - before ripping back into members of the group for having the nerve to criticise his thoughts and opinions

Does anybody see a similarity to any thread on KB??:rolleyes:

Sage advice? Not sure if that would work, you should just wave your one bar heater at them like you did to that car knocker down south! Perhaps Spankme could find a Scumdog emoticon that depicts the moment???

Anyway, its to be expected that there is so much "expert" opinion flying around on this topic. There certainly are issues to look at. The starting place would be the obstructive behaviour of the whole extended family under the guise of grief and cultural process.

The second would be the nature of the PC world we live in that appeared to hinder attempts to get the investigation rolling at the start.

Another would be the legal and judicial rights of suspects and witnesses involved but there's already another thread on that I think.

Finally, (and quite appropriately), the whole police investigation should be peer and independently reviewed to see if and where the investigating staff have made mistakes. Then and only then, if the results of that review prove incompetence, should corrective measures be taken up with the staff involved.

Baying for their blood on KB in the face of a failed prosecution once again only highlights the utter ignorance of those calling for the heads to roll.

[Maki]

Lemme paint a picture.

A whole bunch of guys from all walks of life sitting around in a bar, some maybe having a drink or two.

All know each other, have a common interest and are comfortable with each others opinions, leg-pulling and stirring - even the awkward ones are accepted in the group, after all, they've been in each others company on and off for quite a while.

All of a sudden the bat-wing doors fly open and a young stranger noisily strides in looking around himself, he sees several discussions taking place and one or two subjects prick his interest so he strolls over to one group.

After listening for a minute he chimes in with his thoughts and opinions, he loudly tells a few members of a group how they don't know what they're doing, they're incompetent and so are their workmates, he criticises all they've just said and tells the group how they SHOULD be doing things and if they don't do them the way he thinks they should be done then they're out of line and should be thrown out.

And then when a few of the group offer some sage 'advice' this stranger stands back and looks hurt - before ripping back into members of the group for having the nerve to criticise his thoughts and opinions

Does anybody see a similarity to any thread on KB??:rolleyes:


Stupid picture, since I was the one who started this thread.

If you feel the police did a great job on the Kahui case, fine. Have another beer.

If your implication is that KB is a group of cop lovers and anyone who feels differently should just shut the hell up, then I am sure you will find some people here disagree.

[devnull]

Maki just doesn't seem to get it.

The cops were hamstrung by the PC bullshit that many here voted for... 2 weeks for the family to "grieve", then interference from politicians in an investigation. WTF did you think would happen?

Of course, politicians have been interfering before. I'm sure I'm not the only one that remembers how Helen Clark leaked bullshit to the media so she could get rid of Doone and replace him with Howard Broad and his sidekick Pope.

You want a better performing police force?

Then stop politicians from fucking with it and let good cops run it instead of condoning the appointment of political lackeys.

One good idea that came out of this is that we should create a Crown Prosecutors office. A group of lawyers who's job it is to provide the best legal advice to the police in order to secure a conviction. I'm actually surprised that a politician had enough brains to even make the suggestion.

Something else we're missing is varying degrees of murder. There've been cases recently in the press where police have only been able to charge the offender with manslaughter, because they can't show intent. Huge difference between the two charges - being a dickhead and killing someone should attract a charge of something stronger than manslaughter.

The whole Kahui thing just goes to show that it's way past time people were told they can shove all the PC bullshit where the sun don't shine - they'll be held and interrogated straight away if they're suspected of a crime.

Our whole legal system has become increasingly fucked up with all the touchy feely crap now. Just look at the bloke down the line that shot the tyres out on the car those little crims were driving. WTF is with that?

Guy deserves a medal, not a conviction.

All that tells the rest of us is that if you find yourself in a similar situation, aim higher, and dispose of the bodies carefully.

[Maki]

That's a very good post, devnull and a refreshing change from the efforts of some other people...

You recognize the fact that the police have a problem and something needs to be done. We are on the same page. Like I said before, I am sure most police officers are good people who mean well.

[Dakara]

Hrmmm, the good old NZ Police debate again... suppose I'll throw in my 2c worth then stfu and sit on the sideline again :rolleyes:

Some advise I was given by my boss in an old job:

"If a Customer has a problem and you resolve it they will become far more loyal than a customer who has never had a problem"

"If a loyal customer has problem and you are unable to (or don't) resolve it, they will forget everything else and focus on that"

In the above example, it was in relation to myself as a Charter Pilot and the difficult passengers, but is just as Valid in regard the to the NZ cops.

I've had my share of tickets over the years, all of which I was anywhere from 12-20km over the limit. I was in the wrong, I paid the fine, I got over it, no ill-feelings whatsoever (apart from maybe the lady cop who pulled me over at 3am for doing 95 in spaghetti junction... last time I sober drive my mates WRX :rolleyes:)

Anyway, I was rather anti-cops for a few years. On my 18th birthday I was arrested in Parnell for Disorderly... My friends and I were walking down Parnell Rd to the next bar, and I mate (who was meeting up with us) jumped out from a side road and half tackled me. After he let go, and we were all having a good laugh I feel my arm behind my back and was being arrested. Then when our sober driver asked us if he should stick around, he was arrested for talking to a prisoner!!! Anyway, spent most of the night in lockup, had a court appearance (as I disputed it) and in the arresting officers report it said we were exchanging punches, and I at one stage I had my mate in a headlock above my head?!!? Anyway, blah blah blah.... Discharge without conviciton.

I was arrested by some ex high school jock who went to the cops because they pay new recruits so bloddy much... attracting the wrong people I think.

Anyway, it was very easy for that ordeal to distort my view of the Police (even though it was 7 years ago), especially with all the bad media they get, but you have ask yourself... for each case that gets reported by the NZ media (which really struggles to fill an hour of worthwhile news each night), how many other idiots were put behind bars that we don't hear about?

Long winded post I know, but my whole point is... it's Human nature to make an assumption on a negative experience. You could meet 100 good cops, but as soon as you meet one fuckwit, you percieve they all are.... Makes me wonder how many people are scared of flying cos I fucked up a landing :lol:

-Edit-

On a side note, would be a far better idea to pay the new recruits half of what they get now, and then put the extra money into the old boys salaries so they stick around a bit longer... Anyone with a half a brain should look at what they'll be earning in 10 years opposed to what they earn on day 1, which is why I think there has been a recent influx of new cops with less than half a brain.... including some of my "Friends":Oops:

[peasea]

It is indeed dispicable...I had once something like that happening and filed an official complaint in writing to the police complaints authorithy....I got a real nice police officer visiting a few times, apologising etc.
But people need to react if they want things to change.....
Complain in writing, go visit your local MP, especialy so close to election
time....

Edmund Burke said all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. Do not allow evil to triumph. Do not do sit by and do nothing..........

Ahh, the Police Complaints Authority, that bastion of........well, fuck all. The whitewashing machine that puts all whitewashing machines in their place. Fisher and Paykel couldn't have done better if they'd tried. IT'S A CROCK! The sooner it is dissolved, the better. We need an indepenent overseer for that lot. The PCA investigating the police is as honest as Fat Albert looking in the mirror and proclaiming himself as anorexic.

At last count I think about 3.5% of complaints against police were upheld in a 12 month period. Man, there must be a hell of a lot of people out there making false claims against the cops huh? A nation of liars in fact? I don't think so, I think the liars are often in blue uniforms and they are backed by low-life scum in the PCA.

It's a conspiracy I tell you!

[peasea]

You could meet 100 good cops, but as soon as you meet one fuckwit...

You got that back to front............

[Dakara]

You got that back to front............

Well I must just be lucky then :jerry:

[Indoo]

A We need an indepenent overseer for that lot.

Yeh like maybe a retired judge or something....

[NC]

Maybe you should join the Police, that way you can help them instead of sitting there bashing them:msn-wink:

[Upgrader]

Nah join tha airport custroms officers theres way too few of them the queue was frakkin a half mile

[scumdog]

Its kinda sad that any perceived criticism of the police [often presented in a constructive fashion] quickly turns into a shit fight.
Not once have we seen an acceptance that performance could be better or that any kind of issue even exists. Kinda sad really!


Percieved criticism in a non-confrontational and factual way HAS had support from the 5-0, - even on KB, been 'guilty' of it myself.

[scumdog]

That's a very good post, devnull and a refreshing change from the efforts of some other people....

A shame it had to be trowelled out in a manner that those who hadn't figured it out could understand.

It reeked of the screaming obvious imho - however (surprisingly to some?) I agree 100%, no argument with his post at all.