"At least she gave it a go..."

[Conquiztador]

"She might not have been the best mother, but she had a go... with the knowledge she had." About Macsyna King and why she has lost the custody of 4 children and her two dead twins.

And she has the right to give it more go's whenever she wants to.

I just love the society we live in.

[RC1]

she needs a bullet IMHO,:mad:

[hang0ver]

She was looking after her sisters child last time I caught an article in the paper...

[Number One]

bothers me when I know heaps people on waiting lists that would be great parents if only they were given an opp

[Manxman]

Pffft.

Still on P is she, whilst looking after her sister's kids?

(I know you're taking the mickey with the thread title btw).

There is absolutely and conclusively no fricken way on God's earth that this woman should be allowed to breed.

It is a crime in itself that she was ever allowed to...only for them to suffer endlessly through her neglect.

http://stuff.co.nz/4560062a11.html should give you some insight behind how much she really "gave it go".

[Number One]

Just makes you sick....all of it....

[nudemetalz]

bothers me when I know heaps people on waiting lists that would be great parents if only they were given an opp

yup, that's us (on the waiting list).
P1sses me off too, that people like that can be breed and we have to go about it difficult :angry2:

[Pussy]

She doesn't deserve to be living, let alone breeding. A class A shithead

[Number One]

yup, that's us (on the waiting list).
P1sses me off too, that people like that can be breed and we have to go about it difficult :angry2:


Yeah you'd be a great dad - though you'd have to be a little less nice all the time :msn-wink:. Good luck Mr and Mrs Nudey :sunny:

[nudemetalz]

Thank you lots !!!

Might have to juggle the bucketting though ay ;)

[James Deuce]

bothers me when I know heaps people on waiting lists that would be great parents if only they were given an opp
Hopefully not waiting lists for adoption. Buy one from overseas. It's cheaper and you won't have to put up with whanau turning up every five minutes, exercising their familial "rights".

As for waiting lists for medical intervention, get medical insurance before you start. The investigation process as to why you aren't getting pregnant generally unearths a medical condition that needs surgical intervention.

In regard to the perceived expense of private medical insurance; it's cheaper than adoption.

[Number One]

Hopefully not waiting lists for adoption. Buy one from overseas. It's cheaper and you won't have to put up with whanau turning up every five minutes, exercising their familial "rights".

As for waiting lists for medical intervention, get medical insurance before you start. The investigation process as to why you aren't getting pregnant generally unearths a medical condition that needs surgical intervention.

In regard to the perceived expense of private medical insurance; it's cheaper than adoption.
Sad buggar :laugh:

Apparently there are hundreds of people on adoption lists here but abortion is the preferred way of taking care of business as it were.

They are trying a campaign aimed at getting chicks to recognise going through the pregnancy and handing the baby over at birth to adoptive parents 'IS AN OPTION'...sorry but having had a baby, I find it hard to imagine that this will provide much more opportunity for adoptive parents on waiting lists.

Pregnancy is not terribly convenient and I can't imagine carrying a baby and then being able to hand it over, so how would that go?

[rainman]

She doesn't deserve to be living, let alone breeding. A class A shithead

Agree the whole family looks dodgy as all hell but are you really proposing mandatory sterilisation as part of a punishment programme? Or the death penalty?

Or are you all just blowing off some steam about this case? (I can understand that, the whole situation is pretty sick). :sick:

[Manxman]

Agree the whole family looks dodgy as all hell but are you really proposing mandatory sterilisation as part of a punishment programme? Or the death penalty?

Or are you all just blowing off some steam about this case? (I can understand that, the whole situation is pretty sick). :sick:

Why not sterilisation? Especially now she has been proven to be a shocking "mother".

Compare and contrast with the alternative of letting her breed again...and more misery being placed on those least able to do anything about it.

Whose rights should be considered first??? I know where my vote goes...

[James Deuce]

Sad buggar :laugh:

Apparently there are hundreds of people on adoption lists here but abortion is the preferred way of taking care of business as it were.

They are trying a campaign aimed at getting chicks to recognise going through the pregnancy and handing the baby over at birth to adoptive parents 'IS AN OPTION'...sorry but having had a baby, I find it hard to imagine that this will provide much more opportunity for adoptive parents on waiting lists.

Pregnancy is not terribly convenient and I can't imagine carrying a baby and then being able to hand it over, so how would that go?

Neither sad nor a "buggar", and I know more about the process than I would ever would have desired to know.

You don't hand over a child any more. The birth Mother and her entire extended family still have all the same rights as if the mother had kept the child. The only right the birth mother doesn't have is custody, unless she decides at some point while the child is still a minor that she wants it back.

Fostering children is a more permanent arrangement than adoption.

[James Deuce]

Why not sterilisation? Especially now she has been proven to be a shocking "mother".



Eugenics is an appalling suggestion. It is (to invoke Godwin's Law) a National Socialist's Gestalt that makes that an acceptable solution. That kind of law change opens the door to a number of abuses, and the "State" should not be making decisions about who can and can;t have children.

Oddly enough, both National and Labour are looking at intra-uterine testing to "prevent unnecessary expense" to society by testing for any number of genetic defects in the womb and requiring abortion should your unborn child be under a predetermined level of "viability".

National have also promised to close facilities for educating those with an intellectual disability and to prevent the intellectually disabled from being "mainstreamed". Not that I agree with mainstreaming.

[riffer]

National have also promised to close facilities for educating those with an intellectual disability and to prevent the intellectually disabled from being "mainstreamed". Not that I agree with mainstreaming.

Hang on a minute. Where the hell does that leave them? You can't tell me that in the 21st century we've decided that it's not work attempting to educate people with intellectual disabilities.

Many intellectually disabled people have the capacity to succeed better than a lot of so-called normal intellectual levels.

Like you I'm not convinced of the success of mainstreaming intellectually disabled children. However, I have enough personal knowledge from family members situation to know that doing nothing isn't any better.

What are they suggesting instead?

[rainman]

Eugenics is an appalling suggestion. It is (to invoke Godwin's Law) a National Socialist's Gestalt that makes that an acceptable solution. That kind of law change opens the door to a number of abuses, and the "State" should not be making decisions about who can and can;t have children.


What he said. Thanks, Jim2.

[Manxman]

Eugenics is an appalling suggestion. It is (to invoke Godwin's Law) a National Socialist's Gestalt that makes that an acceptable solution. That kind of law change opens the door to a number of abuses, and the "State" should not be making decisions about who can and can;t have children.

Oddly enough, both National and Labour are looking at intra-uterine testing to "prevent unnecessary expense" to society by testing for any number of genetic defects in the womb and requiring abortion should your unborn child be under a predetermined level of "viability".

National have also promised to close facilities for educating those with an intellectual disability and to prevent the intellectually disabled from being "mainstreamed". Not that I agree with mainstreaming.

Yeah, just ranting. I know nothing about the theory of 'Eugenics', but know everything I need to about how wrong and undeserving this woman is.

Let's see. She smoked P whilst 'caring' for children. She has numerous other kids, by other fathers. She sees none of them. She was violent to them. She allegedly shagged Kahui's old man. Plus God knows how many others who showed an interest (:shutup:). She hit on other women during the wake.

Just:
1) in this case,
2) in isolation,
3) in my view,
4) to save other poor children from the same fate
5) she is the epitome of everything a mother should not be.

Now, or in the future. Whatever you call it, she does not deserve to have more children. Or - more correctly - children do not deserve her...

I wonder whether Sue Bradford is sitting at home thinking, "Jeez, I'm glad that I repealed s.59, cos this is gonna make all the difference and it's never going to happen again". Feck...

[Conquiztador]

In the States there is a bunch of ppl who contact drugabusing females and offer them money if they get sterilised. And while the withdraw sets in it is an easy option where to get the next fix.

The organisation (can't remember what they are called now) has got heaps of heat for what they do. But legally they are not breaking any laws as the female signs a document before being sterilised stating it is her own will.

Their reasoning is that these females would have more kids who would be damaged and the state would have to take care of.

I support this idea.

Offer her some money and she most probably go for it...

[Conquiztador]

With this thread I was more commenting on the NZ way of: "As long as we give it a go it does not matter if we are loosers".

Obviously this now also applies to having children.

"She fucked up badly, she had a bunch of kids, 2 died, rest were taken off her, but good on her, at least she had a go..."

[Ixion]

Ms King, accoridng to reports, has produced six children, and signally failed in the most elemental duties to all of them

Reportedly she has never held a job

Despite that she drives around in a $37000 XR8.

I have never not held a job, but I can't afford a $37000 car. Because I pay such high taxes to support Ms King and her like. Sadly, she is far from exceptional. A trawl through South Auckland could probably produce 100,000 just like her. All living a very comfortable life, even a luxurious one, on the proceeds of the sweat and toil of you and I. There's a word for such things - can't think of it, on the tip of my tongue. Begins with a 'P'. Parasailing? No, that's not quite it. Tch, it's on the tip of my tongue.

Can some one please tell me what exactly Ms King returns to society in exchange for the money I am forced to contribute toward her life style?

[Pussy]

Can some one please tell me what exactly Ms King returns to society in exchange for the money I am forced to contribute toward her life style?

I think "sweet fuck all" is the expression you are looking for there, Ixion

[MD]

Hopefully not waiting lists for adoption. Buy one from overseas. It's cheaper and you won't have to put up with whanau turning up every five minutes, exercising their familial "rights".



Wow. E-Bay sure has come a long way in a short time.

[MD]

Ms King, accoridng to reports, has produced six children, and signally failed in the most elemental duties to all of them

Reportedly she has never held a job
......

Can some one please tell me what exactly Ms King returns to society in exchange for the money I am forced to contribute toward her life style?

Wouldn't it be interesting if the tax payer had the right to select where the Govt was allowed to spend the dollars being forcibly taken off them.
You know, a "please select from the following; health, Police, Defence, Education,..." AND they could only spent it where you selected. I think the Govt would get a swift, sharp, shock on how tax payers feel about Welfare getting the lions share.

[Conquiztador]

Wouldn't it be interesting if the tax payer had the right to select where the Govt was allowed to spend the dollars being forcibly taken off them.
You know, a "please select from the following; health, Police, Defence, Education,..." AND they could only spent it where you selected. I think the Govt would get a swift, sharp, shock on how tax payers feel about Welfare getting the lions share.

What an interesting idea!!

The money would have to be used in the next years budget.

I can just see it. Dr Cullen steps up and does his budget speach:

"As a result of last years tax payments we have this year nothing to spend on social welfare, but with 10.5 billion our roads will be the envy of the world..."

[Manxman]

Their reasoning (for offering sterilisation)is that these females would have more kids who would be damaged and the state would have to take care of.
I support this idea.
Offer her some money and she most probably go for it...

Me too.

However, I think she should pay...

[scumdog]

"She might not have been the best mother, but she had a go... with the knowledge she had." About Macsyna King and why she has lost the custody of 4 children and her two dead twins.

And she has the right to give it more go's whenever she wants to.

I just love the society we live in.

All I can say is that I'm glad she's not an airline pilot and gave it a 'go' with the same amount of success as she had with motherhood......

[Forest]

Agree the whole family looks dodgy as all hell but are you really proposing mandatory sterilisation as part of a punishment programme? Or the death penalty?

Or are you all just blowing off some steam about this case? (I can understand that, the whole situation is pretty sick). :sick:

I wouldn't go so far as sterilisation, but a strategically located padlock might help to resolve the situation.

[blossomsowner]

Ms King, accoridng to reports, has produced six children, and signally failed in the most elemental duties to all of them

Reportedly she has never held a job

Despite that she drives around in a $37000 XR8.

I have never not held a job, but I can't afford a $37000 car. Because I pay such high taxes to support Ms King and her like. Sadly, she is far from exceptional. A trawl through South Auckland could probably produce 100,000 just like her. All living a very comfortable life, even a luxurious one, on the proceeds of the sweat and toil of you and I. There's a word for such things - can't think of it, on the tip of my tongue. Begins with a 'P'. Parasailing? No, that's not quite it. Tch, it's on the tip of my tongue.




i think the word you want is ..............PARASITE!

[Owl]

I wouldn't go so far as sterilisation, but a strategically located padlock might help to resolve the situation.

I’d imagine her associates would be all too familiar with picking locks!

[Number One]

Oddly enough, both National and Labour are looking at intra-uterine testing to "prevent unnecessary expense" to society by testing for any number of genetic defects in the womb and requiring abortion should your unborn child be under a predetermined level of "viability".

National have also promised to close facilities for educating those with an intellectual disability and to prevent the intellectually disabled from being "mainstreamed". Not that I agree with mainstreaming.

This sounds a lot creepy Jim!

As for closing down facilities for those with intellectual disabilities and stopping mainstreaming...really???

Firstly on the bent of intra-uterine testing...I can say without much doubt that my boy would've been deemed too expensive! There is no way I would've aborted him to save the state some pingas though!!!!

On Mainstreaming...my boy requires mainstreaming...if he were to be put into a special needs facility he wouldn't have the opportunity to learn what he needs to off the NT's he'd have access too at a 'normal' school.

I do hope this is just rumours that have been hinted at Jim....can you provide more context or reference to this info??

[Forest]

This sounds a lot creepy Jim!

As for closing down facilities for those with intellectual disabilities and stopping mainstreaming...really???


No. His whole post was a clever troll.

No Government in NZ will ever require people to have abortions. Hell - just permitting people to choose elective abortions was (and still is) controversial by itself.

[Number One]

Damn him and his clever trolling...

[Winston001]

Ms King, accoridng to reports, has produced six children, and signally failed in the most elemental duties to all of them

Reportedly she has never held a job

Despite that she drives around in a $37000 XR8.

I have never not held a job, but I can't afford a $37000 car. Because I pay such high taxes to support Ms King and her like. Sadly, she is far from exceptional. A trawl through South Auckland could probably produce 100,000 just like her. All living a very comfortable life, even a luxurious one, on the proceeds of the sweat and toil of you and I. There's a word for such things - can't think of it, on the tip of my tongue. Begins with a 'P'. Parasailing? No, that's not quite it. Tch, it's on the tip of my tongue.

Can some one please tell me what exactly Ms King returns to society in exchange for the money I am forced to contribute toward her life style?

EEeerrrkkkkk - choking on my weetbix here - surely this is a fraudulent post from our fellow traveller, or a troll cunningly thrust forth to bring out the right-wingers for later "re-education"....

Xion while I applaud and totally agree with your elegant words, is not Ms King the logical result of the socialist nanny state? The only thing missing in NZ is for state ownership and control of the means of production, for a communist state to exist. And we'd be surrounded by Macksyna Kings......no-one would work....

[Ixion]

EEeerrrkkkkk - choking on my weetbix here - surely this is a fraudulent post from our fellow traveller, or a troll cunningly thrust forth to bring out the right-wingers for later "re-education"....

Xion while I applaud and totally agree with your elegant words, is not Ms King the logical result of the socialist nanny state? The only thing missing in NZ is for state ownership and control of the means of production, for a communist state to exist. And we'd be surrounded by Macksyna Kings......no-one would work....

Decidely not. In a communist state the Ms Kings would be packed off to a labour camp so fast their Gucci clad feet would not touch the ground. Where they would work, since the alternative would be not to eat. Or, simply be shot. Personally, I prefer the latter since I think it improbable that Ms King can ever be re-educated so as to be a contributing member of society.

She can hardly be the product of a "socialist nanny state" since we have not has a state that could be called even vaguely socialist within her lifetime.

The social welfare system which she so extensively abuses was implemented to help workers. Not shirkers. It was the successive liberal-capitalist governments of the last 40 years that have turned it into the universal trough.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. If you are unable to work (old, young, sick, disabled) you will be taken care of. If you can work, then you jolly well will do so.

Those who show themselves consistently unwilling to contribute to society should be given no expectation of being allowed to remain within it.

[RantyDave]

The social welfare system which she so extensively abuses was implemented to help workers. Not shirkers.
I have been intermittently interested in this since moving to NZ nearly ten years ago. See, for a year or two (depending on how you count) I was quite the merry dole bludger in the UK and hence have a reasonable level of knowledge around the bludging lifestyle and all it's accoutrements, culture and challenges. In all this time, the world-of-the-sponger failed singularly to become even remotely attractive as a long term option. It, in short, fucking sucked from about day one and I was very happy to (long story) finally manage to crawl out from it and get (a) a job and (b) something that actually halfway resembles a career.

Then I move to New Zealand and discover there are families ... generations deep ... who have never gone to work. There are the Kahui clan, putting half a dozen adults under one roof and enjoying the sharp end of $100k a year off the state. There are hamlets up north where people move specifically to enjoy the dole/dpb lifestyle. Shit, the woman who lived next to me (2 brm house, by the sea, in Wellington) was considering moving to her single motherness to somewhere with better surfing. Yet Mr/Mrs newly married, both with degrees, in their late 20's, probably about to pop their first sprog are fucking scraping by to make ends meet.

So it's the educated, trying hard, raising the next generation to be really nice people who are paying for the minority to smoke P, hit their kids, and sit on the deck drinking piss all day. How the fuck has this happened?

That's it. I don't really have anything sensible to say.

Dave

[rainman]

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. If you are unable to work (old, young, sick, disabled) you will be taken care of. If you can work, then you jolly well will do so.

Those who show themselves consistently unwilling to contribute to society should be given no expectation of being allowed to remain within it.

Ixion for Prime Minister! :yes:

The only problem is where d'ya put the buggers who won't play along. You can't export them, no-one else wants them. Jail is a bit harsh and Victorian (debtors prison?) not to mention expensive. "Work for the dole" schemes are flawed unless the economy is awash with work. Forced sterilisation or other means of stopping people from is, as pointed out above, more of a Nazi tactic than the NZ culture would be happy with. Chucking them out on the street to live in cardboard boxes and fend for themselves just ups crime and violence.

All collective systems are open to exploitation by the lazy and become a race to the bottom as soon as they become too big for all of the participants to be able to look each other in the eye and say "Oi!" when people aren't pulling their weight. Even small family units are often disfunctional, despite there being a theoretical strong familial bond.

We've been trying to solve the problem of how to manage societal groups for hundreds of years (if not thousands), without that much progress if we're honest. Lately I'd have to say we're more lost than ever. Technology has advanced, but has society? Has humanity?

[Manxman]

I have been intermittently interested in this since moving to NZ nearly ten years ago. See, for a year or two (depending on how you count) I was quite the merry dole bludger in the UK and hence have a reasonable level of knowledge around the bludging lifestyle and all it's accoutrements, culture and challenges. In all this time, the world-of-the-sponger failed singularly to become even remotely attractive as a long term option. It, in short, fucking sucked from about day one and I was very happy to (long story) finally manage to crawl out from it and get (a) a job and (b) something that actually halfway resembles a career.

Then I move to New Zealand and discover there are families ... generations deep ... who have never gone to work. There are the Kahui clan, putting half a dozen adults under one roof and enjoying the sharp end of $100k a year off the state. There are hamlets up north where people move specifically to enjoy the dole/dpb lifestyle. Shit, the woman who lived next to me (2 brm house, by the sea, in Wellington) was considering moving to her single motherness to somewhere with better surfing. Yet Mr/Mrs newly married, both with degrees, in their late 20's, probably about to pop their first sprog are fucking scraping by to make ends meet.

So it's the educated, trying hard, raising the next generation to be really nice people who are paying for the minority to smoke P, hit their kids, and sit on the deck drinking piss all day. How the fuck has this happened?

That's it. I don't really have anything sensible to say.

Dave

Mate, that was very sensible, and true. Good rant, Ranty.

[Number One]

Mate, that was very sensible, and true. Good rant, Ranty.
+1 :yes:

I nod in complete agreement Dave

[RantyDave]

"Work for the dole" schemes are flawed unless the economy is awash with work.
They also cause enormous backfires. Consider, for example, me sitting on the dole in the UK. Now, I had a degree in Engineering (the government, in their wisdom, told more or less anyone that the country really really needed engineers), had there been a work for dole scheme then I would have been forced into ... I dunno ... stacking shelves. Not that there's anything wrong with stacking shelves for a living, unless you're working to some obscenely low percentage of possible productivity, hence a low percentage of overall benefit to the planet in general, and if we're going to be just rude about it a low percentage of the possible tax take.

Actually, there was a form of work for dole but it was a piece of piss to avoid.

Anyway, point is that I eventually got my shit sorted out, joined the working world and started getting taxed witless. Until I left the country to bring my experienced, productive, tax paying and expensively educated arse over here to help pay for Ngati Fuckwit buy a rugby team or whatever they're into this week.

From which we have two key takeaways:

* Forcing people to work in a less productive role than they are able to is daft for all involved.
* Immigration is actually a good thing.

Dave

[Winston001]

Decidely not. In a communist state the Ms Kings would be packed off to a labour camp so fast their Gucci clad feet would not touch the ground. Where they would work, since the alternative would be not to eat. Or, simply be shot. Personally, I prefer the latter since I think it improbable that Ms King can ever be re-educated so as to be a contributing member of society.

She can hardly be the product of a "socialist nanny state" since we have not has a state that could be called even vaguely socialist within her lifetime.

The social welfare system which she so extensively abuses was implemented to help workers. Not shirkers. It was the successive liberal-capitalist governments of the last 40 years that have turned it into the universal trough.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. If you are unable to work (old, young, sick, disabled) you will be taken care of. If you can work, then you jolly well will do so.

Those who show themselves consistently unwilling to contribute to society should be given no expectation of being allowed to remain within it.

Mmmm.....but the line between fascism and communism is obliterated by this degree of totalitarianism. Yes, you are right that such a State would deal - harshly - with the likes of the Kahui underclass. However the cost to the individual is freedom - the loss of civil rights, the rise of officialdom - those who assess the ability to work become extremely powerful.

So I don't know the right answer to our current crop of professional bludgers. We don't see as many of them in the provinces, perhaps because they would stick out, and maybe because there is full employment at present.