This promises to be exciting...

[Mikkel]

So here I am, looking to cut down my time on the restricted license.

I have had a look at AA's homepage and booked in for the course and that should all be sweet.

Then I notice that they run a course called 'Defensive Driving For Experienced Drivers'... This is a four hours course with no 'in-car' practical part and it saves you $60 and 4 hours of your life compared to the normal test.
Only problem - this course does not allow you to cut down you restricted time...

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that I can cut my time on 6L down by 6 months - however, I also have a rather clear expectation of the four 2 hour sessions being completely and utterly wasted considering I have more than 9 years of driving behind me. The in car practical test is a joke considering this course is applying to a motorcycle license anyway (and it's probably no difference from what I've been through before either).

A defensive driving course for experienced drivers however - that sounds a fair deal more interesting to me. I'm sure I'll take more away from a 4 hour session at a higher level than from four 2 hour sessions of being bored to tears.

This is fucking stupid and as a result, I have become bloody grumpy!

[celticbhoy]

I recently completed the normal DDC and found it to be fairly useless and was stuck in a class four times over two hours with giggling school age kids. The instructor was just going thru the work book and we were filling in the gaps! The in car practical was a waste of time as had to do it in the car and half was not applicable to the bike. It served its purpose of reducing the time as I had already been playing on my big bike and didn't want to run the gauntlet for too long! Might get more out of the course you are looking at.

[Trouser]

Just to make you grumpier I just used a DDC I got in 1996 to reduce my time on restricted to 3 months. It was a very by the numbers course. No driving at all.

The lady at the AA office had never seen one that old and had a 20 minute phone conversation with higher authority to see if I could use it. They finally appoved it.

I thought I had lost the certificate about 10 years ago and found it last night and thought I'd give it a go.

[Steam]

The only way to get through the defensive driving course is to hit on the High School-aged girls doing it, and wear black leathers and scowl menacingly at the young boys.
And alcohol.

[Ragingrob]

Yeah... it's bullshit, I did the defensive driving course 3.5 years ago and have had my full car licence for 3 years, and I can't fucken use it to reduce the time on my restricted for the bike! Makes me wanna just screw it and get a bigger bike after 12 months on restricted, the cost of the course can go into a fine if I happen to get one lol. How much is the course these days?

[JimO]

The only way to get through the defensive driving course is to hit on the High School-aged girls doing it, and wear black leathers and scowl menacingly at the young boys.
And alcohol.

probably one of those young boys gave your bike the cooked chicken treatment:whistle:

[Mikkel]

Just to make you grumpier I just used a DDC I got in 1996 to reduce my time on restricted to 3 months. It was a very by the numbers course. No driving at all.

The lady at the AA office had never seen one that old and had a 20 minute phone conversation with higher authority to see if I could use it. They finally appoved it.

I thought I had lost the certificate about 10 years ago and found it last night and thought I'd give it a go.

Doesn't make me any grumpier... Why would it? In 1996 I had never been to NZ.


The only way to get through the defensive driving course is to hit on the High School-aged girls doing it, and wear black leathers and scowl menacingly at the young boys.
And alcohol.

I'm thinking sleeping pills and sunglasses. Or perhaps just spend the time in class, ranting about various irrelevant subjects...


Yeah... it's bullshit, I did the defensive driving course 3.5 years ago and have had my full car licence for 3 years, and I can't fucken use it to reduce the time on my restricted for the bike! Makes me wanna just screw it and get a bigger bike after 12 months on restricted, the cost of the course can go into a fine if I happen to get one lol. How much is the course these days?

$170 :( $110 for the short course that might actually not be painful.

Well, no 6F - no insurance for a bike >250ccm - bad idea. Besides, dollars can't buy demerit points...


What pisses me off is the fact that they so blatantly waste an opportunity to introduce a highly needed dose of common sense and 'wake the fuck up' to a large number of novice bikers - both young and youngish (25-75). But instead of doing anything useful with the course they just waste everybody's time, money and interest. I very much doubt anyone who already hold a full class 1 license or above would be able to take a course like this serious. And even if you could take it serious I'll put money down that almost none of the practical skills are transferable to a bike.
Doing a motorcycle-specific training course would be much, much more beneficial - however, currently only AA holds the endorsement necessary to provide courses that can cut down the time on restricted. I suspect I shall have to call them and rant and growl - not that it's gonna do any difference though.

[Ragingrob]

Out of their "AA approved list for courses to reduce time", is this the only one??

[Matt_TG]

I did the AA car based DD course to reduce my 6R time, had 20 years on the other participants, and actually found out a bit about myself and driving habits. It's not only about what you are driving/riding, it's about how you drive/ride... shit I sound like that drinking advert.

At the risk of not being cool enough for this thread I didn't mind the course. Phew I said it.

[Mikkel]

I did the AA car based DD course to reduce my 6R time, had 20 years on the other participants, and actually found out a bit about myself and driving habits. It's not only about what you are driving/riding, it's about how you drive/ride... shit I sound like that drinking advert.

At the risk of not being cool enough for this thread I didn't mind the course. Phew I said it.

Good on ya mate. If you had 20 years on the other participants I guess you have about 20 years of driving experience. Now, the whole issue with driver licensing in NZ is that there is bugger all driver instruction involved in the licensing process - and from what I've heard there would have been even less 20 years ago.

Unless you actively have searched for information on roadcraft and defensive driving techniques by yourself I suspect you wouldn't have made yourself familiar with these topics other ways than Trial By Fire so to speak.

I am sure you would agree that a bike specific course would be better though.


Out of their "AA approved list for courses to reduce time", is this the only one??

I'm pretty sure it is...

http://www.aa.co.nz/motoring/licensingandtraining/ddc/DefensiveDrivingCourse/Pages/default.aspx

Here's the basic DDC:
http://www.aatravel.co.nz/main/listing.php?listingId=55497&style=AA

And this is the DDC for experienced drivers:
http://www.aatravel.co.nz/main/listing.php?listingId=69065&style=AA

Bugger all difference IMHO - except price and number of hours spent/wasted and the practical car-test.

[Steam]

and the practical car-test.

In Wellington there is Andrew from Roadsafe.co.nz who offers the Defensive Driving practical part on a motorcycle. I did that, it was good. But yeah, all the theory was based around cars.

[Mikkel]

Funny you should mention that. I just did the Roadsafe course this weekend here in Chch. It was great - and probably more than covered anything we'll be exposed to in the DDC...

[Matt_TG]

I am sure you would agree that a bike specific course would be better though.



Yes, most definitely!

The thing to keep in mind though is a DD course does not teach you how to drive or ride, it's how to identify and react to what's going on around you. Those skills are handy whether you ride a bike, drive a car or pilot a skateboard. You will get something out of the standard DD course but it's up to you to apply it. Like most things in life aye?

[nallac]

The only way to get through the defensive driving course is to hit on the High School-aged girls doing it, and wear black leathers and scowl menacingly at the young boys.
And alcohol.

helps if ya also turn up on a Harley..
oops i mean i would've if i had my full..


i did one to shorten my 6r as well and agree that there should be
a more bike related course.
it was good to have a refresher on what i had kinda been practicing
since getting my licence 20yrs ago.
and to fix the bad stuff i'd been doing also.

[xwhatsit]

What pisses me off is the fact that they so blatantly waste an opportunity to introduce a highly needed dose of common sense and 'wake the fuck up' to a large number of novice bikers
Completely agree there. You can introduce all sorts of legislation, making riders ride 250cc bikes, banning them from carrying pillions, etc. But at the end of the day, the way to make them the most safe is to educate them. The license examinations are hardly adequate. If RRRS (which is teaching exactly the sort of skills we're talking about) was usable for reducing 6R time, how many more guys, in a rush trying to get their fancy GSXR/Harley, would end up taking it and be better off for it? Instead of wasting their time learning about car dynamics. How is that useful for their safety.

[Mikkel]

The thing to keep in mind though is a DD course does not teach you how to drive or ride, it's how to identify and react to what's going on around you. Those skills are handy whether you ride a bike, drive a car or pilot a skateboard. You will get something out of the standard DD course but it's up to you to apply it. Like most things in life aye?

Now, what if you should happen to already possess these skills at a level that is higher than what the course is being taught at? I am pretty confident that a course minded on 17-19 year olds just getting into driving is pretty much wasted on someone who has driven for more than 5 years - especially if that someone puts some thought into their driving?

More education is a good thing - but putting someone in a learning environment without stimulating them is NOT going to teach them anything!


Completely agree there. You can introduce all sorts of legislation, making riders ride 250cc bikes, banning them from carrying pillions, etc. But at the end of the day, the way to make them the most safe is to educate them. The license examinations are hardly adequate. If RRRS (which is teaching exactly the sort of skills we're talking about) was usable for reducing 6R time, how many more guys, in a rush trying to get their fancy GSXR/Harley, would end up taking it and be better off for it? Instead of wasting their time learning about car dynamics. How is that useful for their safety.

You can get a GSX-R 250 actually ;)

But yes, that is exactly what I am getting at!

But I have a DL4 form in my wallet and I am going to sit down and apply for an exemption - I'll keep you posted on how it goes. :)

[vtech]

so wait, let me get this straight... if i did my ddc over 2 years ago for my car it takes 6 months off my restricted for my bike? Thats stupidity, they dont relate a all.

[Mikkel]

You're not supposed to be able to use the same course twice to get a reduction in restricted time.

That said, it is the same course - you're just supposed to do it again.

Yes, it doesn't make sense...

[Nagash]

Unfortunately i've never driven a car before and don't intend to start anytime soon so I couldn't do the in-car practical.. which kinda pissed me off cause i've had this restricted license for bloody ages. Only 1 or 2 months left though..

Then full-dom! Which is funny cause i'll get my full well before i'm 18.. which is the starting age when I lived in Germany.

[Mikkel]

Dunno, it might be possible to get an exemption... However, I will have sat my full license test before that would have been processed.

So, I'll just tag along and try to not fall asleep...

[Mikkel]

Dear diary...

DDC - session 1.
Welcome back to primary school. Some things haven't changed in the last 12 years:

-Irrational fear is still believe to be a better motivator than insight and understanding.
-The standard setting of people teaching basic stuff is still 'patronising'.

Excuse me, I now have to do my homework :rolleyes:

6 hours more of this, I believe I can do it without loosing my mind - but I am an optimist.

[rat biker 08]

You are right 20 years ago it was easy to get a bike licence but the bikes dident go as fast and we had to go throu a restreted as well .We did have the MOT and thay did bike coureses back then.

[BiK3RChiK]

I have read this thread for the first time tonight, and I find it quite depressing, in light of the fact, I have to do a course... after 25 years driving a car.

This doesn't inspire me at all!

[The Pastor]

quit ur bitching, your getting like 3 months off ur R.

[Mikkel]

I have read this thread for the first time tonight, and I find it quite depressing, in light of the fact, I have to do a course... after 25 years driving a car.

This doesn't inspire me at all!

You don't HAVE to do it... I'm just itching to get on my big bike.


quit ur bitching, your getting like 3 months off ur R.

And the point that I have tried getting across here is that LTSA is wasting a golden opportunity to actually improve road safety for a certain segment of the population which has a fairly strong presence in motorcycle fatalities.

I have no problem just decoupling and putting my brain to sleep for another 6 hours... It just irritates me that the time and money spent could have been directed better.

[The Pastor]

You don't HAVE to do it... I'm just itching to get on my big bike.



And the point that I have tried getting across here is that LTSA is wasting a golden opportunity to actually improve road safety for a certain segment of the population which has a fairly strong presence in motorcycle fatalities.

I have no problem just decoupling and putting my brain to sleep for another 6 hours... It just irritates me that the time and money spent could have been directed better.
no one cares about road saftey so why should you.

[Lee Rusty]

If you cant find a ddc trainer to do it - then do your ddc with them and give me a call I am certified to do the DDC practical element on a M/c for people doing aa ddc-
Lee Rusty PM thru here.




Unfortunately i've never driven a car before and don't intend to start anytime soon so I couldn't do the in-car practical.. which kinda pissed me off cause i've had this restricted license for bloody ages. Only 1 or 2 months left though..

Then full-dom! Which is funny cause i'll get my full well before i'm 18.. which is the starting age when I lived in Germany.