Getting off the line?

[Tony.OK]

Ok am trying to find a way to get going without either near stalling or nearly flipping this bloody bike.
Theres no middle ground I can find with this clutch,Honda had the bright idea of using a hydraulic unit for these bikes,and its either "on" or "off".
I've tried holding various revs but with even the slightest release of the clutch it grabs and tries to flip me off,I tried holding the rear brake on and "just" engaging clutch with revs steady.....same result.
That leaves me just idling and letting out clutch then giving it "some".....which has to be bang on or it'll stall on the line.
Dunno if other bikes have the same probs with hyd clutches but am wondering if I need to look at maybe changing clutch springs(harder/softer?) or maybe plates.

And yes it is a Honda,and no I ain't ghey:bleh:

[vtec]

Hmm, if it's as tempestuous as you suggest, no amount of technique can help. I was going to suggest doing aggressive launches from traffic lights as regularly as you can, just to teach you how to balance the revs, throttle and clutch, as that's what helped me, and I'd often end up just behind Jay Lawrence off the starts. But it sounds like you may just have a bitch of a clutch.

[rwh]

[disclaimer - newish rider and non-racer]

Would a smaller master cylinder give you more control - more movement of your fingers for the same movement of the clutch, so hopefully a better chance to hold it where you want on the biting point?

Richard

[Crasherfromwayback]

Fucking hyd clutches. Stick them up your arse! To me, a cable is so much more 'direct' to use, you can really 'feel' what the clutch plates are doing through the lever.

[Patch]

throw the hydraulic shit in the bin and convert it to cable - it ain't as hard as you think and it'll be a big improvement. Clutches do last a bit longer with heavy duty springs installed and prevent slippage as well.

[skypig]

The Hydraulic slipper clutch on my KTM motard is vicious. Under calm use (around pits, etc) it is light and delightful. Used in anger (race starts) it is as grabby as a... very grabby thing (all or nothing). I think it’s a function of the slipper mech, i.e. it “ramps up” to grip under acceleration.:shit:

[Tony.OK]

[disclaimer - newish rider and non-racer]

Would a smaller master cylinder give you more control - more movement of your fingers for the same movement of the clutch, so hopefully a better chance to hold it where you want on the biting point?

Richard
Thats worth looking into,the only trouble would be making sure I'd have enough travel to ensure proper clutch action:msn-wink:


throw the hydraulic shit in the bin and convert it to cable - it ain't as hard as you think and it'll be a big improvement. Clutches do last a bit longer with heavy duty springs installed and prevent slippage as well.

Did think about that,not too easy on the 1000rr,the hyd is on the left side pushing a rod all the way through the engine to the right side,would have to modify something to push the rod via a cable,will look into it a bit more.:niceone:

[Sketchy_Racer]

if it's anything like the VTR SP1 clutch, they are fucken horrible! Good luck finding a cure!

[Ivan]

Yeah hope ya find a cure.

The Hydraulics I saw at tech were gay as well.

Go the mighty Cable like someone said earlier on so much feel of what the clutch is doing which is great

[codgyoleracer]

Have a chat with Rob Jackson at Gp Honda Tauranga next time you see him at the track. he has been through it all on his Blade.
Glen

[slowpoke]

Have a chat with Rob Jackson at Gp Honda Tauranga next time you see him at the track. he has been through it all on his Blade.
Glen

In the meantime have a drool over the pornographica mechanica here:

http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/bikes/Honda_-_CBR_1000_RR-_SC57?bikecat=61

Get your missus to lock up the cheque book first though, you have been warned.....

[Tony.OK]

Have a chat with Rob Jackson at Gp Honda Tauranga next time you see him at the track. he has been through it all on his Blade.
Glen
Yep emails already wingin its way through cyberspace:done:

In the meantime have a drool over the pornographica mechanica here:

http://shop.durbahn.de/shop/en/bikes/Honda_-_CBR_1000_RR-_SC57?bikecat=61

Get your missus to lock up the cheque book first though, you have been warned.....

Perfect..........................but farkn hell........now where did she hide HER chequebook:shifty:

[White trash]

WBP Racing hyd clutch works fine.

Harden the fuck up old man.

[Tony.OK]

WBP Racing hyd clutch works fine.

Harden the fuck up old man.

Wot.......aye.......well I never:eek5:

If ya weren't on a new baby high I might mention it didn't do ya much good afta 1 lap:whistle:..........................did I say that out loud?:Oops:

[scracha]

Ducati dry clutch with hydraulics is a @#$cker but practise, practise and more practise. Years of traffic light GP do come in handy. Take the thing on 1/4 mile sprints.

[FROSTY]

Way back in time this question was asked --
Our old mate HOON gave
The first suggestion was to actually try some drag racing.
The traffic light derby is all well and good (and has it's place ) What I found though is that I needed to practice launching with full agression-something I never did stop light "racing"
The other thing he pointed out was look at how you sit on the bike on the grid.
You need bike in first gear ,
upper body well fororward. To the poilnt your head is over the screen, Elbows bent outwards.
This puts your body weight over the front so you can do the dump thing and reduce the wheelies.
Thats how I remember it anyhow.--Probably you need to watch some MX race starts

[CHOPPA]

my neighbours love my practice starts in my driveway! either get ya weight over the front more try single foot down or two feet down also try 2nd gear 1000 should be able to pull it even if its a honda haha couldnt resist!!

[JJ58]

Hey Tony,
First thing to do is check that your clutch basket isn't groved, which results in what you mentioned.

[Maido]

Hey Tony,

This is a well know problem with the blades clutch, just ask Hayden fitz, he hated it! I believe he ended up just holding it at 5krpm and easing it out.
However, I believe there is a way you can assemble the clutch springs to deliver better performance, I will try finding the link, I think it was through the HRC japan site.......
Get a new blade, it is cable operated!

[vifferman]

This is a well know problem with the blades clutch, just ask Hayden fitz, he hated it! I believe he ended up just holding it at 5krpm and easing it out.
However, I believe there is a way you can assemble the clutch springs to deliver better performance
It's not just a Blade issue - it seems to be common to many Hondas. My VTR had problems with a grabby clutch, and the VFR can act up too: too many revs on board and the lever reduced too quickly can result in it grabbing/slipping/grabbing etc.
Many clutch rebuilds don't require the paltes AND springs to be replaced - often just replacing the OEM springs with Barnett ones does the trick.

[Tony.OK]

Hey Tony,have a new blade, it is cable operated!

Hahaa that is a very generous offer,I'm home in the afternoons this week if ya want to drop it off:bleh:

yeah the more I read into it the more ppl I find have the same issues with this model,have found a few different fixes but none are guaranteed,maybe a wheelie bar will do the trick:laugh:

[moT]

Ok am trying to find a way to get going without either near stalling or nearly flipping this bloody bike.
Theres no middle ground I can find with this clutch,Honda had the bright idea of using a hydraulic unit for these bikes,and its either "on" or "off".
I've tried holding various revs but with even the slightest release of the clutch it grabs and tries to flip me off,I tried holding the rear brake on and "just" engaging clutch with revs steady.....same result.
That leaves me just idling and letting out clutch then giving it "some".....which has to be bang on or it'll stall on the line.
Dunno if other bikes have the same probs with hyd clutches but am wondering if I need to look at maybe changing clutch springs(harder/softer?) or maybe plates.

And yes it is a Honda,and no I ain't ghey:bleh:

you will find a middle ground there always is practice makes perfect and you wont find that middle ground with that attitude of urs....

[Tony.OK]

you will find a middle ground there always is practice makes perfect and you wont find that middle ground with that attitude of urs....

Shit Tom I'm not sure if I'm pissed off or offended by that,you don't think that I've "practised" to try and find something that works(and have found a compromise),maybe you could explain to me what my attitude is exactly?
If by trying to find a solution to a problem by asking others who may have had experience with similar problems is a bad attitude,then so be it.I thought it'd be a good thing to try and find a remedy for a problem rather than just accepting it.
Maybe I'm just tired from doing overtime to pay for this addiction and have read this the wrong way:calm:

[svr]

Remember those old GP 50s, 80s and 125 racers who used to do that `Flintstone Paddle' thing? Worth a try???

[driftn]

Two bits of advice.
1 Get good at getting a 250 two stroke off the line and every thing will fall in to place.

2 Throw all simpathy for the clutch out the window and keep telling your self its not my clutch its not my clutch. Both of those have worked for me.
Hope it helps

[moT]

Shit Tom I'm not sure if I'm pissed off or offended by that,you don't think that I've "practised" to try and find something that works(and have found a compromise),maybe you could explain to me what my attitude is exactly?
If by trying to find a solution to a problem by asking others who may have had experience with similar problems is a bad attitude,then so be it.I thought it'd be a good thing to try and find a remedy for a problem rather than just accepting it.
Maybe I'm just tired from doing overtime to pay for this addiction and have read this the wrong way:calm:

im just saying have a possitive attitude about it and keep trying dont give up and you will get it :) sometimes instead of blameing the machiene you have to look inward for answers.. Sometimes its difficult to accept but i have been thru this process many times

[Sketchy_Racer]

Two bits of advice.
1 Get good at getting a 250 two stroke off the line and every thing will fall in to place.



Nah mate a 250 2T is one of the easiest bike's i've ever launched!
How ever, try a 125GP. if you can master tha launch on one of them you'll be able to launch anything!!

[wharfy]

you have to look inward for answers.. Sometimes its difficult to accept but i have been thru this process many times

That is very zen.. :-)

[Tony.OK]

im just saying have a possitive attitude about it and keep trying dont give up and you will get it :) sometimes instead of blameing the machiene you have to look inward for answers.. Sometimes its difficult to accept but i have been thru this process many times

Thanks Tom,but in this case there is in fact a known problem,which in the meantime i will make the most of,but if i can find an easy fix to make it better then thats what i'll do.
Same as replacing a stock shock with Ohlins really ain't it:msn-wink:

[Ivan]

Nah mate a 250 2T is one of the easiest bike's i've ever launched!
How ever, try a 125GP. if you can master tha launch on one of them you'll be able to launch anything!!

Yeah got to agree there 125 hard to launch properly

[DEATH_INC.]

Try more rpm and more slipping, more rpm makes it slip better....but it's a bit harsh on the plates....though I've seen a guy on a gixxer like mine run real fast times at the drags by just revving it and dumping the clutch (no slipping at all) with just the right amount of rpm so it didn't pick the front up 'cept for a small hop....
As for body position, try lying on the tank, balls hard against the tank, with BOTH feet down and as far forward as ya can. This both moves the cog forward but having both feet on the ground launches ya straight, and having 'em forward means also that you move further before you move your weight off 'em, again keeping you straighter.

[sinfull]

I have no real idea with hyd clutches, but would it be possible to place a reducing valve in line to slow the released fluid up slightly ?
Would be a trial error thing with the sizing to get it right, but ya never know if it works, patent it lol I'll have half !