Project KK600 (help?)

[Kwaka-Kid]

Hey guys, after i was digging a hole out back yesterday i ran into a frame or three i hadnt seen in a while, amoungst them was one which got me thinking of other bits that i thought i could bolt on and modify, so anyways now im after some help (prolly ongoing!) Situation is: (very tired as i write this, its been a long day after an all nighter (being New years) and ive spent the last who knows how many hours trying to plan these ideas)



In my limited spare time im building a bike, so far its going to be:
1986 NS400R NC19 main frame
1992 VFR400R NC30 complete front end
1994 RVF400R NC35 rear swinger/shock+knucles
1988 XR600 engine with wiseco kit waiting to throw in it

Not worried about engine yet, and ive found the front end bolts straight in except that the NC19 steering head shares the NC24 style bearings so the NC30 front end bolts en except i need smaller top bearing, thats fine.

problems start in the back end...
first question: Is the NC35 rear swinger offset?
i think it is as ive bolted the swing arm in, then gone to line up shock and everything appears to be approx 15mm out to the right, and the NS400 frame/original swingarm looked to have gone dead centre... if this is true i havnt a clue yet how im going to offset the swingarm as i only have provision for around 5mm, maybe 10mm if i grind the inside of frame a little.

next is the top mount for rear shock, but i think i can dead with this by making a steel bracket to lengthen the original.

So far thats it guys - Any help at all esp. from people that have put NC30/35 rear ends into bikes that have conventional swingarms as i know its been done over and over to different bikes.

Oh and reasons for getting rid of original swingarm is that i dont have brakes/a rim and the rim would only take a crossply i bet anyway, so i wanted to get on some nice NC feet, and have the braking etc. So im hoping to make a really lightweight little street fighter with all the spare NC30 bits i have.

Also this NS400 frame has been hit by a car in the lower support arm of the subchassis, doesnt have appeared to put out of line anything at all and ive done lots of checking, just that it is whacked in a good inch.

Cheers guys

[erik]

I can't offer any help (unless there's something that doesn't require much bike knowledge).
It looks like an ambitious project, are you going to post any pics to document the progress? It would be interesting.

[Kwaka-Kid]

erik there could be!

i do beleive this swingarm from the RVF400 NC35 is meant to be offset very approx half an inch or so. question is how to do it when that is without the spacers as it is! thinking grind 5mm out of frame and maybe steal 8mm odd out of swingarm and run with no spacer, well very little almost touching, if the wheels are a touch out of alignment im not too fussed so long as i get them pointing straight... so you could help with this design or if you have a machine drill press thingy... hmm, and also need to alloy weld a new top mount for rear shock. im lost for ideas other then what ive stated on rear swinger tho, wanna come see it? :S

[Wellyman]

Well kk if ya need parts come see me and spencer at atomic motorcycle wreckers we could sort you out with any parts you need. i work on most saturdays but we are closed till january something.

[riffer]

Hey KK - halfway down a cliff in Paekakariki there are some VFR parts you may be interested in... :o

[Kwaka-Kid]

Really?!!! Where abouts is that! keep it quiet dude i have first dibs aiight!!

Secondly: Id like to say a big thanks to both Erik and 6Chris6, its been another long day of work on everybodys bikes and project KK600. BUT however i think we have made progress with the rear suspension - it seems just the shock is mounted off centre, and now with a mixture of NC35, NC30, NC19, and whatever hondas code is for a VT250F (MC**) we have a rear mungrel of a shock prolinkage setup, i think we will label it a amatuerlinkage setup. but its looking like it might work with some weird forces in some weird places.

Top effort boys, Just about threw it in at least twice there and went back to a standard swingarm but thats not how it ended up and thats the main thing - stubborn i know but i really do appreciate it.
and now im babbling, 6chris6 post some pics damnit!

[erik]

No worries mate, it was fun.
Thanks for the beer and chips :D

[Milky]

beer and chips? why didnt you give a brother a call? I could have been there effectively managing the process, and imparting some little gems of information here and there...

[k14]

and whatever hondas code is for a VT250F (MC**)

I believe it is MC16

[DEATH_INC.]

I was gonna point out the shock is all that's off centre but i see you've figured that out.
I mounted a 750 rear into a turbo for my mate in aus,I just cut all the original mounts off and made some new one's to match the offset in the shock.


http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=6151&stc=1

[6Chris6]

Ah yes, was a funny night, spent mostly going backwards, but after much bending and gentle persuading of parts, ie bending and bashing the F outta them we kinda got the rear shock to work(ish).
Anybody that wants to ride this bike when it's finished is gonna have to sign a lenghthy indemnity form though, with lots of fine print bequething (sp?) there own bike for parts to the cause when the inevitable happens!

Pics are project KK (obviously)
The crew, with head mechanic Zapper and his bitch's Eric, myself and KK

[DEATH_INC.]

Really?!!! Where abouts is that! keep it quiet dude i have first dibs aiight!!
Just ask Frosty..... :Pokey:

[Bonez]

Keep up the good work guys. An interesting read.

[aff-man]

Dude give me a yell if you need some help. I can help work out something. electrics/mechanicle stuff. Whatever i can do to help :rockon:

[slob]

Nice one KK! Looks really cool so far with the shiny clean frame and single swingarm and all.. Is the Wiesco kit a big bore kit? I'd be really keen to see what you do with the engine, my XR600 supermoto project might benefit from your experience!

[Kwaka-Kid]

Slob: Cant remember if its a big bore kit! i can source one within 10-14 days of wanting one however should the one ive got in a drawer not be. But to be honest slob id far rather it be a .5m OS as theres plenty of room for more reboring, though i think between ProX, Shindy, and TKRJ they go to at least a 1.5 OS which keeps us in the game for longer eh! Should you want to talk to anyone re advice on the project im sure Nod will be more then happy, he actually owns the motor and the kit, infact i certainly didnt buy this frame or anything either, but in my workshop theres the quick and the poor buggers stuck on old GS1000's... hahaha, ill let him ride it a few times when its finished though (maybe):blah:

...well guys its been a lonely night, just me and good old Pearl Jam's album Ten playing hard on the system downstairs...

The title progress only explains the final few hours of my night, i decided to take an early night after developing a slight cold possibly due to burning the midnight oil a little much recently (too much excitement!)

But just trying to secure the work we did last night by making finalizations to bolting etc to see how it will work. Also changed to VT250 shock as i cant seem to get the suspension working ? it seems to be VERY hard like? check my diagram, these are my plans (precise huh?!) the main thing we have changed (so long as the top mount of shock doesnt count) is the much shorter VT250 bottom prolink, as far as my small mind can work out it should in all theory not affect very much as its a form of stay-arm no? and what counts most is that we are still using the NC30 prolink triangle? Although now the triagle is tilted up more then stock... well anyways who knows and i am still using a dodgey shakey bracket up top to hold the shock in place, i think a few blocks of wood would be better but i had nobody to help hold them tonight.

Anyways had both ends in and tank on for quick display earlier today and also could run into a problem with the lock nuts on hte top of steering head not reaching the bottom thread? Its all very confusing and i have not before done a project like this with the only real planning being the night i dug up the frame over a few (then a few more, and a few more, and after those few we thought wed just make sure we were thinking straight so had another few) beers.:mellow:

ARgh sorry now i am not making much sense and my head hurts from watching that prolinkage setup as i lift tail up and down and think about how i have alterd the forces (im sure its just my top bracktry and the fact that i have no front end on and just not trying hard enough)

Also - opinions. NC35 swingarm needs 2mm bigger bolt then NC19 frame had stock, do i drill the holes in frame 2mm bigger and use bigger bolt, or do i sleeve the swingarm down?:spudwhat:

Cheers guys!:wacko:

[DEATH_INC.]

If yer bottom link is shorter and tips the triangle bit up a lot more then that's probably the prob.
The angle from the swingarm bolt(top of the triangle) to the bottom bolt on the triangle to the frame should be about 90deg,or you upset the progression curve...
I made some sleeves up to sleeve the arm down on the turbo-easier and you know the holes are lined up properly which is pretty hard if you drill 'em by hand....

[6Chris6]

Screw the XR lump, put this in :yes:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?id=20582295

[Two Smoker]

Screw the XR lump, put this in :yes:
http://www.trademe.co.nz/structure/auction_detail.asp?id=20582295
Yep i second that!!! Then put the 10000km engine in your race bike, and the race bike engine in your mutant...

[6Chris6]

, and the race bike engine in your mutant...

NO, don't do that, that race bike lump is shit.
Stick to the xr if your gonna do that it'll go quicker :eek:
Use the race bike engine as a generator to power future tyre warmers or summink!

[Sensei]

How about a Rotory 20b LOL

[Kwaka-Kid]

how about you all get some taste! XR's are the shiznit.

anyway you all out to feel happy that i wasnt so sick or id hunt you all down... and as for you chris, haha i coughed all over your keyboard.. mmmmmm spread that crap feeling.

[avgas]

very cool project man, if u need a hand i'll keep checkn here for updates.
Cant wait to see her going.
Yeh keep the XR, those motors stonk and haul ass.
Im so jelous of you right not :)

[Posh Tourer :P]

The shock often feels hard-like with no pre-load on it. get an engine in and then give it a real testing..... You may not need to switch to VT250 shock. I'd trust the set up you have with the shock you want to put in there TBH.

The beemer, in building felt like a rock, so much so we even changed the springs for not heavy duty ones, but now that its running, with engine,seat and my fat ass on it, no worries....

[gav]

I'd sleeve the swingarm to fit the NS frame rather than boring the frame out.
Actually a mate built a XR500 powered VFR400 with TZ bodywork many moons ago. Made a cool hill climb special thingy but a bit slow on the road, only good for about 150km/h. XR's arent really designed to be held full throttle on the road for long periods. :whistle:

[Kwaka-Kid]

its true..

Unless of course you make 69hp have a 13,000rpm redline and needle roller bearings for cam to run in and wiseco gear + corrillo rod etc... then apparently they are good for excess of 200 :) but that one goes in the MVX frame later.

Anyways guys progress on this project has come to an unfortunate holt for a short while, and XR500 pipes are nearly finished. Ready for its first woodhill outing around 15th Jan.