View Full Version : How wide can I go?
hey guys. just wondering how wide of a rear tyre i would be able to put on my rf400?
it currently has a 160 and it needs to be replaced. im wanting to atleast get a 170 on there but if it wont fit then it wont fit.
any suggestions on which tyre i should go for would be aprreciated aswell as im a newbie. i ride her day in day out to work n back no matter the weather
any help would be appreciated.
thanks
Sean
AllanB
9th June 2008, 20:48
Check your rim size - there will be a size written on it and check chart below
140/70*17 3.50/4.00/4.50
150/60*17
150/70*17
160/60*17 4.00/4.50/5.00
160/70*17
170/60*17 4.00/4.50/5.00/5.50
180/55*17 5.25/5.50/5.75
Also be aware that the WOF has a limit on a motorcycles overall width of 1 metre.
Why do you want a 170? Stick with the original size.
AllanB
9th June 2008, 20:50
Check your rim size
Ha ha ha I said 'check your rim size'
wouldnt it handle better with a wider tyre? sorry i said i was a newbie
Ha ha ha I said 'check your rim size'
sorry mate dont swing that way :oi-grr: lol
Hitcher
9th June 2008, 22:49
Don't be a twat. Your bike's manufacturer knows best in terms of such things as optimal tyre size. Heed well their recommendations. Bikes and cars are different.
xwhatsit
10th June 2008, 00:17
wouldnt it handle better with a wider tyre? sorry i said i was a newbie
No, more likely to turn to poo. At least that's what everybody says :)
The accepted response to a thread like this is to tell the original poster to go and look at a 125cc GP bike (usually regarded as the best handling motorcycles in existence). The tyres they run are narrow little things that wouldn't look out of place on a bicycle.
Reckless
10th June 2008, 01:19
Don't be a twat. Your bike's manufacturer knows best in terms of such things as optimal tyre size. Heed well their recommendations. Bikes and cars are different.
Jeepers Hitch "a twat" that was a bit harsh!
This may not be a prefect explanation it may not even be close but its about the curve/shape of the tyre. Wider less curve and a different shape when it fits on your rim. I always used the correct size tyres on the VTR and was off the edge, but on the Z1 I had wider tyres on give the old girl a meatier look. But the bike was slower to turn in and lay over. Also chicken strips down each side. Gone down a size and it is snappier and quicker. Also less/no Chicken strips. Even though the bikes a classic the principles are the same. The tyre shop boys IE cycletreds should be able to give you some advice as well, different brands will have different characteristics. But don't go wide for the sake of it you may turn the bike into a pig.
Patch
10th June 2008, 05:01
Don't be a twat. Your bike's manufacturer knows best in terms of such things as optimal tyre size. Heed well their recommendations. Bikes and cars are different.
Bullshit Hitcher. Manufacturer's make things to a budget, cut costs, install poor quality parts - all to improve their aftermarket sales and bottom line. Politics also play a big part in decisions that are made.
There are many things we can do to improve our vehicles over stock manufacture settings.
Perhaps you should let those that are qualified in such areas, give the advice before shooting your gob off.
fLaThEaD FreD
10th June 2008, 06:33
grabs the popcorn and a cold beer and sits back to enjoy the show.............:jerry:
Bullshit Hitcher. Manufacturer's make things to a budget, cut costs, install poor quality parts - all to improve their aftermarket sales and bottom line. Politics also play a big part in decisions that are made.
There are many things we can do to improve our vehicles over stock manufacture settings.
Perhaps you should let those that are qualified in such areas, give the advice before shooting your gob off.
scorry
10th June 2008, 07:45
wouldnt it handle better with a wider tyre? sorry i said i was a newbie
I would stick with the 160, if you want it to handle better just put some sporty tyres on it.
Hitcher
10th June 2008, 08:55
Bullshit Hitcher. Manufacturer's make things to a budget, cut costs, install poor quality parts - all to improve their aftermarket sales and bottom line. Politics also play a big part in decisions that are made.
There are many things we can do to improve our vehicles over stock manufacture settings.
Perhaps you should let those that are qualified in such areas, give the advice before shooting your gob off.
There may be some truth in what you say regarding components like suspension and brakes. There may also be some truth in what you say regarding manufacturer's choices of OEM tyres in terms of the model of tyre. But never, in my experience, in terms of the width or profile of the recommended tyre.
In my view, anybody who makes significant random changes to the width of tyre fitted to their bike is at risk of seriously compromising that bike's performance and safety. In other words, they are a twat.
Indeed I would welcome critique of my opinions by somebody suitably "qualified".
imdying
10th June 2008, 10:14
There may also be some truth in what you say regarding manufacturer's choices of OEM tyres in terms of the model of tyre. But never, in my experience, in terms of the width or profile of the recommended tyre.That would be my understanding also. Whilst the particular model of tyre might be under specified for particular buyers applications, it seems doubtful that they would spec an incorrect profile/size etc.
fatzx10r
10th June 2008, 10:51
I would stick with the 160, if you want it to handle better just put some sporty tyres on it.
what he said
mouldy
10th June 2008, 11:21
Bullshit Hitcher. Manufacturer's make things to a budget, cut costs, install poor quality parts - all to improve their aftermarket sales and bottom line. Politics also play a big part in decisions that are made.
There are many things we can do to improve our vehicles over stock manufacture settings.
Perhaps you should let those that are qualified in such areas, give the advice before shooting your gob off.
I am qualified in such areas and Hitchers pretty much correct , in very few circumstances, i.e. TL1000, does changing from oem size improve handling , tyre size is dictated by rim width
slimjim
10th June 2008, 12:36
hi kid, well going slightly wider has a few thing's to consider , one = is there room for tire clearance between the swingarm, second = clearance of chain to tire , and going to slightly wide rear won't give you anymore lean over , some of these fat ass rearwheels on these bikes can cause the rear to push a bike when cornering , which is why you'll see them ride it like a trike more upright, so stay with what's on it ,
Reckless
10th June 2008, 12:50
There may be some truth in what you say regarding components like suspension and brakes. There may also be some truth in what you say regarding manufacturer's choices of OEM tyres in terms of the model of tyre. But never, in my experience, in terms of the width or profile of the recommended tyre.
In my view, anybody who makes significant random changes to the width of tyre fitted to their bike is at risk of seriously compromising that bike's performance and safety. In other words, they are a twat.
Indeed I would welcome critique of my opinions by somebody suitably "qualified".
yeh but Hitch for a guy to come here to get the opinions of the more experianced before he goes of and does it or to ask first about his intentions is certainly not the actions of a "twat". I agree with you, but lighten up a bit?
hey guys thanks for your opinions. yea im still a young'n and just wanting to learn a bit more about riding and bikes. its a good forum for info and you can pretty much find anything you want. so ill just stick with the same size tyre and stay away from shinkos? lol
any ideas on a nice rear tyre thatll be used for everyday riding? i ride no matter what the weather is like.
FilthyLuka
10th June 2008, 15:51
any ideas on a nice rear tyre thatll be used for everyday riding? i ride no matter what the weather is like.
Avon storms, Conti Road Attack, Metzler Roadtech? Something along those lines.
The Stranger
10th June 2008, 16:10
There may also be some truth in what you say regarding manufacturer's choices of OEM tyres in terms of the model of tyre. But never, in my experience, in terms of the width or profile of the recommended tyre.
In my view, anybody who makes significant random changes to the width of tyre fitted to their bike is at risk of seriously compromising that bike's performance and safety. In other words, they are a twat.
Indeed I would welcome critique of my opinions by somebody suitably "qualified".
Although the original poster may be a little misguided, he proposing a change less significant than Chris Sucich or Jay Lawrence make on their race bikes. Those same changes are very effective on the road also.
AllanB
10th June 2008, 20:43
I've given him some bling for at least asking a valid question before acting.
A couple of interesting things I know.
The Honda CB1300 which runs the standard 180 rear & 120 front tyre, according to Honda's web site runs 'slightly narrower' rims than normal to give it lighter handling (read quicker).
My previous bike a GS1200ss came stock with a 170 rear however the two Suzuki factory documents I received with it recorded rear tyre widths as 170 & 180. Rim size was standard for a 180.
Basically if your rims is wide enough for a bigger tyre (see chart) and has plenty of clearance (chain, swingarm etc) you may fit it.
However
This will alter the bikes handling - most likely making the steering slower.
hey guys thanks for the help. i decided to go with a Metzeler Roadtec Z6
Patch
12th June 2008, 06:03
:hitcher: It is far better to have asked (what some may consider a dumb question) than to have never asked it at all. :hitcher:
So Mr. Hitcher, because I have changed to a different profile (other than the one recommended by the manufacturer), I must be a twat (according to your definition), even tho my change results in a slightly larger contact area while cornering (read more rubber on the road)
Oh well, if the shoe fits . . .
DEATH_INC.
12th June 2008, 06:21
There may be some truth in what you say regarding components like suspension and brakes. There may also be some truth in what you say regarding manufacturer's choices of OEM tyres in terms of the model of tyre. But never, in my experience, in terms of the width or profile of the recommended tyre.
In my view, anybody who makes significant random changes to the width of tyre fitted to their bike is at risk of seriously compromising that bike's performance and safety. In other words, they are a twat.
Indeed I would welcome critique of my opinions by somebody suitably "qualified".
Ok....how about the old 916, new they would come with either a 190/50 or a 180/55 (on the same width rim, 5.5") .....it was widely accepted that the 190 was too wide and it worked waaay better on the 180.....
I've never been shy to vary the width of a rear tyre a bit, but common sense prevails.
In this guys case, I'd prolly recommend a 150/60 rear (4" rim I'm guessing?) as I've always found 'em better handling.....
DEATH_INC.
12th June 2008, 06:28
This will alter the bikes handling - most likely making the steering slower.
No no no no NO! :no: It actually makes the steering FASTER going to a bigger tyre, but the bike fights you more when ya lean it over. This is why twats for years put a undersized 180 section rear tyre on TL's, ZX12's and Gixxers etc. with 6" rims, cause it makes 'em lean over easier, so they interpret this as making 'em steer faster when in fact it makes 'em steer slower..... :rolleyes:
DEATH_INC.
12th June 2008, 06:32
Although the original poster may be a little misguided, he proposing a change less significant than Chris Sucich or Jay Lawrence make on their race bikes. Those same changes are very effective on the road also.
Right. All the top 600 guys run a 190/55 rear now. It was worth over 1/2 sec a lap to a mate in aussie who runs top 10 in supersport over there the first time he tried it....
FilthyLuka
12th June 2008, 12:09
hey guys thanks for the help. i decided to go with a Metzeler Roadtec Z6
Good choice mate :-) My oldschool GSXR 750 is running the Ye Oldie metzler setup, ME33 front and ME88 rear :banana:
mashman
12th June 2008, 14:08
Ok....how about the old 916, new they would come with either a 190/50 or a 180/55 (on the same width rim, 5.5") .....it was widely accepted that the 190 was too wide and it worked waaay better on the 180.....
I've never been shy to vary the width of a rear tyre a bit, but common sense prevails.
In this guys case, I'd prolly recommend a 150/60 rear (4" rim I'm guessing?) as I've always found 'em better handling.....
same with the rsvr... when you change tyre widths or heights it changes the handling of the bike... period. if you can re-set the bike up to hanlde the change you may well get a better contact patch on the road with a wider tyre, but slower turning. to speed up turning, change the profile height. It is doable, but you have to be prepared for a lot of experimentation... Changing tyre brands can be just as bad, having the tyres at incorrect pressures etc... it all changes the handling, you just need to experiment.
DEATH_INC.
12th June 2008, 19:51
Making the rear wider also speeds up the turn in....not slows it down. Wherever did everyone get this idea from????
mashman
12th June 2008, 20:10
Making the rear wider also speeds up the turn in....not slows it down. Wherever did everyone get this idea from????
From pretty much every forum in the galaxy and far far away... stands to reason, bigger contact patch, more friction and longer to get to the same point of turn on a wider tyre, slower turn, every so slightly, but still slower... Making the tyre taller turns the bike in quicker, as does rasing the rear ride height and lifting the forks through the clamps a little further
Grub
12th June 2008, 20:37
Bullshit Hitcher. Manufacturer's make things to a budget, cut costs, install poor quality parts - all to improve their aftermarket sales and bottom line. Politics also play a big part in decisions that are made.
Not when it comes to tyre size on a motorcycle.
If you want to be a size queen, do it in your pants, not on your bike.
Good choice mate :-) My oldschool GSXR 750 is running the Ye Oldie metzler setup, ME33 front and ME88 rear :banana:
yea bike handles ALOT better with the new tyres. i guess anythings betta than those IRC's aye lol :rolleyes:
Patch
13th June 2008, 05:31
From pretty much every forum in the galaxy and far far away... stands to reason,
oh fuck, if thats ya source it must be true.
Debating with someone (not me, the other Ginga) )who has years of experience and works in the field day in day out and you base your opinion on a forum - smart.
Size does matter - just ask an honest woman :motu:
mashman
13th June 2008, 08:32
oh fuck, if thats ya source it must be true.
Debating with someone (not me, the other Ginga) )who has years of experience and works in the field day in day out and you base your opinion on a forum - smart.
Size does matter - just ask an honest woman :motu:
Ha ha ha, fair enough.
The guys I had been reading/ asking questions of all race. So they test tyres, tuning the bike to handle with differing manufacturers, compounds, profiles, ride heights (front and rear) blah blah, blah blah (the 200 profile tyre being the new thing), so I have no reason to doubt their years of findings either. The general finding was that turn in is slightly slower with a wider profile tyre. Granted i'm regurgitating, but it really does seem to make sense.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, prove anyone incorrect, just offering reasons that, granted I have read and swallowed, that point to the wider contact patch of the wider profiled tyre slowing down handling, enough to need a steering geometry change.
DEATH_INC.
13th June 2008, 18:26
Ok, let me explain nice 'n simple, get a wider tyre on the rear of ya bike and it will lift the rear more when ya lean it over, thus making it turn QUICKER..... simple enough? :yawn:
FROSTY
13th June 2008, 18:35
hey guys thanks for your opinions. yea im still a young'n and just wanting to learn a bit more about riding and bikes. its a good forum for info and you can pretty much find anything you want. so ill just stick with the same size tyre and stay away from shinkos? lol
any ideas on a nice rear tyre thatll be used for everyday riding? i ride no matter what the weather is like.
Good news dude--it just so happens that your rear rim size is the same as MOST F3 and Pro twins bikes.That means 160 tyres are gonna be reasonably easy to find.
Depending on your budget you might want to concider a softer tyre that the "big boys" use simply because you are on a smaller/lighter bike
Im leaning towards suggesting a Med compound Metzler
CookMySock
13th June 2008, 18:52
it all changes the handling, you just need to experiment.My mrs 250 has a wider front tyre than my 650, and my bike tips in real deep, real quick. Its quite stable up to a point, but after that it gets real uneasy. I thought it was because I had a fatter back tyre and a thinner front tyre. Either way, there is a full 1.5cm of my rear chicken strips that remain out of my league. I'm just not getting past it. grumble.
DB
FROSTY
13th June 2008, 18:53
On the generic front in my opinion theres a bit of simple politics and finances involved with OEM tyre supplies.
If you are building a million units and can supply tyres $5.00 a set cheaper that still do a reasonable job then you do it -saving of $5 million is a fair chunk of change
mashman
13th June 2008, 21:58
Ok, let me explain nice 'n simple, get a wider tyre on the rear of ya bike and it will lift the rear more when ya lean it over, thus making it turn QUICKER..... simple enough? :yawn:
Sorry, that doesn't make sense to me. Maybe i'm being a dumb shit here, rather you didn't point it out, it's awful woooood... Tell me what am i missing?
here's one of my sources, found this a few years ago... took a while to find it again... http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/146_0206_tire_size/index.html
mashman
13th June 2008, 22:37
My mrs 250 has a wider front tyre than my 650, and my bike tips in real deep, real quick. Its quite stable up to a point, but after that it gets real uneasy. I thought it was because I had a fatter back tyre and a thinner front tyre. Either way, there is a full 1.5cm of my rear chicken strips that remain out of my league. I'm just not getting past it. grumble.
DB
Pah only 1.5 inches... I'm having a hard time gettin that far at the moment, but hoping that's just the recent suspension woes and not my shitty riding ability...
I've been quite surprised over the last few years, reading articles from racers and bike mags on how tyre profile changes the handling of a bike and throws the steering geometry out... stunned to find that if your tyre pressure is slightly low it can transform the bike into an unridebale hunk of shit (that's my story and i'm stickin to it)... It's yet another farkin nightmare when it comes to setting a bike up and I just don't seem to have the knack...
Patch
14th June 2008, 04:37
. . . wider profile tyre . . . but it really does seem to make sense.
wider profile?? me thinks this is what is confusing you (maybe)
Width of tyre = width e.g. 180, 190 etc
Profile = height of sidewall e.g. 50, 55, 65 etc
a wider profile doesn't make sense to me either, it would be a taller or lower profile, which makes more sense.
mashman
14th June 2008, 09:51
wider profile?? me thinks this is what is confusing you (maybe)
Width of tyre = width e.g. 180, 190 etc
Profile = height of sidewall e.g. 50, 55, 65 etc
a wider profile doesn't make sense to me either, it would be a taller or lower profile, which makes more sense.
Do you ever sleep!!!! 04:37...
That was my bad saying wider profile tyre. I fully understand what the numbers mean, width in mm and height in mm, but thanks for trying to clear up the confusion. I should have written wider same profile tyre if anything...
But I still hold the same view. I don't understand how the wider tyre can raise the rear of the bike just because the width is changed... or understand how a bigger contact patch can allow a faster turn in. I've shown one of my sources (the article) and hence pne of the reasons i have my opinion.
So am I allowed to debate on such a subject, admittedly knowing a lot less than most on the subject, but maybe for clarification purposes i.e. to learn without being treated like a 4 year old (and on a forum of all places) :msn-wink:...
xwhatsit
14th June 2008, 12:48
But I still hold the same view. I don't understand how the wider tyre can raise the rear of the bike just because the width is changed... or understand how a bigger contact patch can allow a faster turn in. I've shown one of my sources (the article) and hence pne of the reasons i have my opinion.
It doesn't make it any taller until you're leaning over. Picture it at extremes; with a narrow bicycle tyre when you're leaning right over -- right on the edge of the tyre -- where the road is touching, the tyre is close to the rim. With a big fat balloon tyre (but no higher in the middle, same profile remember), when leant right over at the edge, the contact surface will be far away from the rim. Because it's wider at that point.
So if you've got more room between the rear rim and the contact patch at a certain point, then you will have a higher rear end.
mashman
14th June 2008, 14:28
It doesn't make it any taller until you're leaning over. Picture it at extremes; with a narrow bicycle tyre when you're leaning right over -- right on the edge of the tyre -- where the road is touching, the tyre is close to the rim. With a big fat balloon tyre (but no higher in the middle, same profile remember), when leant right over at the edge, the contact surface will be far away from the rim. Because it's wider at that point.
So if you've got more room between the rear rim and the contact patch at a certain point, then you will have a higher rear end.
Ok, I can see what you're saying there and that makes sense, as you say you're further from the rim by virtue of the wider tyre and hence slightly higher. So if that's the case then the turn in will be steeper for the smaller tyre and therefore steering will be quicker on the steeper angle of the tyre???
DEATH_INC.
14th June 2008, 14:40
Ok, I can see what you're saying there and that makes sense, as you say you're further from the rim by virtue of the wider tyre and hence slightly higher. So if that's the case then the turn in will be steeper for the smaller tyre and therefore steering will be quicker on the steeper angle of the tyre???
Ah....no. The larger (rear not front) will tip the bike forward onto the edge of the front tyre better. A narrower rear will lean easier which is usually mis-interpreted as making it quicker steering. A smaller front will make her turn in quicker.....
mashman
14th June 2008, 15:11
Ah....no. The larger (rear not front) will tip the bike forward onto the edge of the front tyre better. A narrower rear will lean easier which is usually mis-interpreted as making it quicker steering. A smaller front will make her turn in quicker.....
I would have thought an easier turn in would be quicker. I can see where you're coming from, but i think in practical terms the easier lean translates to a quicker turn in... primarily as you don't adjust your riding style to suit a wider tyre, you change the geometry of the bike. Therefore half a but cheek hanging off a seat may give you another 10 feet of being upright before tipping into the corner at a given speed (i.e. steering around the corner) by virtue of it being easier to turn and having a wider tyre feels like it's steers slower (steers around the corner) because it doesn't lean over as quickly and so people describe it as turning in quicker.
Therefore this whole debate is really about terminology and the perception of steering being quicker in regards to how easy it is to lean the bike because all other things have remained constant...
I don't understand how changing the width of the front makes any difference to the quickness of steering with the same profile tyre, as you claim it makes no difference when the rear is widened... It's a fookin minefield i tell ya, i'm off to explode...
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