Evasive action while cornering - any tips?

[Chad]

Well, as you can probably guess from the title I had a little bit of excitement in a corner. Well, more than a little bit. While on my way home last night, I was coming onto the Basin Reserve in Welly from Kent terrace, and right in the apex of the first left hander theres a small one way cut trough that joins on as a giveway. I was already into this corner, and doing a reasonable speed, not exactly sure what; wasn't going too fast, but not just pootling about either, when a car ignored the giveway and pulled out right across my lane and stopped.
I only had about half a second to react before I'd be supermaning over the bonnet, and so hit the brakes, put it down and slid into the side of her.
I had seen her coming, and had seen that she had seen me (if that makes sense) and simply made the fatal assumption she would stop. Stupid of me and I do know better, but anyway off topic.

Has anyone got any tips for when you are already leaning over into a corner and suddenly you lane is cut off or you see some obstruction that is going to cause problems in about half a second. And I think this could be valuable for others too, as when she got out she even said she had seen me and was going to stop, but when I looked over her entire car was well and truly past the lines... And she was a nurse!!! You have to wonder what some people are thinking...

[Gremlin]

mmmm sounds like you have learnt your first lesson already... NEVER assume the cager will do something clever/intelligent... ALWAYS assume they will do something stupid.

After that, it depends on any given situation, because road layout, surface, traffic etc, all are factors to how you can get out of tricky situations, but the one thing I'm not sure you know about yet, is called target fixation.

Essentially, if you looked at the car as you were heading towards it... you went there, as you go where you look. In future, don't focus on the problem, you know its there already. You need to be weighing up the options open to you, and looking where you want to go (not what you're going to hit :sweatdrop), as every second it takes you to weigh up options probably loses you a few.

[Ixion]

Well, you saw her coming, so you should have been prepared for what she did. They will do it.

EXACTLY the same thing happened to me last week. Fortunately I had seen the idiot approaching and checked that I had room to move right if necessary. And sure enough she went straight through the Give Way. Which would not have mattered so much if she had then taken the left hand lane of the three , since I was in the centre lane. But she kept coming right across , heading straight across in front of me, to get to the right hand lane. So my escape route to the right was no good, so I had to do a rather forced turn hard left into the left hand lane (as she vacated it!)
All just part of the rich tapestry of life. On a motorcycle you must ALWAYS be watching and suspicious, and have a response or two thought out in advance. And when it happens (which it will with tedious regularity) , trust to your tyres and do not hesitate to force the bike into an avoidance turn no matter how sharp.

[MIXONE]

Remember the most important rule of riding motorcycles.


Every fucker on the road is trying to kill you!!!

[Ixion]

Actually, I worry more about the ones who are too old to be fuckers any more. And the ones who are so fat and ugly that I refuse to believe that anything would fuck them.

[James Deuce]

Squeeze the front brake REALLY hard, lose the front and then slide deftly under the vehicle in question while your bike impacts the driver's door and explodes into flames, killing the numpty who tried to kill you.

Nonchalantly get to your feet, dust yourself off, and humourously quip, "Hot enough for ya?", while the car burns fiercely only metres away.

[Trudes]

hahaha, and I want you to take me out for a 'mentor' ride sometime soon Jim..... GG!!!

[1billyboy]

A good push froward on the right handle bar would have got you across to the right of the road.

Regards 1billyboy

[alanzs]

Wear nappies. You never know when you'll need 'em... :spanking:

[CB ARGH]

The saying "Target Fixation", please... I am born to be an ass.

Okay, I'll be honest, yes, this idea works, and it gives you a wider vision also... I just don't see how it's the best thing to do.

It's like a cat running across the road, it wants to go to the other side, it looks at the other side, as instructed by the motorcycle driving instructor, and starts to run. Two seconds in, WHAM!!!! :niceone:

that worked....

If you look at the target (cage), you can get an idea of an escape route, obviously if you look at the cage, you can see the part that you don't want to hit, which you turn away from. Simply turning your head and staring at a pole down the road can not save your ass.

I think that you can only learn from your mistakes. Nobody can be taught how to handle a situation like the above, you can be told to "not panic, look forward", but seriously, when there's a two tonne car half a second away from your front wheel, are you really going to be thinking about the pole down the road? No, you're thinking about getting home to a nice cold beer. It's unexpected.

My tip? Don't do anything stupid, stick to the speed limits. Don't think that people give a shit about you, because they don't. Don't think that they see you, because 99% of the time they won't.

Have good tyres, have good brakes, keep your brakes levers covered, and prepare for the worst when you get on the bike each day.

------------

Wow, all of that, and I haven't ridden a bike on the road in my life. Fuck. :second:

[slopster]

If you wish to stop, stand the bike up first and stop it in a straight line.
If you wish to avoid don't get off the gas, 99% of the time it will make things worse as it puts too much weight on the front wheel and makes the bike harder to turn. Stay on the gas and try to countersteer around the obstacle. This is of course easier said then done when every instinct is telling you to roll off the throttle.

[Gremlin]

If you look at the target (cage), you can get an idea of an escape route, obviously if you look at the cage, you can see the part that you don't want to hit, which you turn away from.
Generally, newbies especially... the sheer fact of looking at something makes them go there, ie, the bike follows what you are looking at. Hence, if you are focussing on the door panel, more often that not, you'll hit that door panel.

Newbies also panic, hit the picks, and then focus at what they are about to hit. Panicking and hitting the picks reduces your options. By braking, you are using up the tyres' grip for braking rather than turning, and generally, panicking makes you freeze, making you less able to change direction.

I've had plenty of close misses, as part of my job is travelling around sorting problems, so I am in Auckland traffic constantly. Generally, when I see an issue developing, my first instinct/reaction/thought is, "oh no, I ain't gonna fucken crash here" or "not today, where's my out". The obstacle becomes a side issue.

[motorbyclist]

Wow, all of that, and I haven't ridden a bike on the road in my life. Fuck. :second:

maybe if you had ridden a bike you'll know a bike travels where you look unless you make a conscious effort otherwise

same story for cornering; you look "up" around the corner, not directly infront of you

(dirt bikes are a slightly different story)

if in an emergency you stare at a rock/pole/ditch/car you will steer there. simply fact; don't go giving learners dangerous advice if you've never ridden yourself or you're partly responsible for injuries of they follow your advice


in an emergency, dodge around the fucker (be it rock or bus or whatever) as best you can. if you're going wide into a ditch the same applies; look where you want to go - around the corner - and the bike will go there

saved me countelss times

[CookMySock]

Well there are two parts to that ;

1.) Identify your obstacle EARLY and OVER-react to it. Don't assume it will clear. (as you have discovered.. owch!)

2.) Grab the bike firmly by the bars and countersteer the fucker! Don't hesitate, don't hold your breath and lockup - bar push HARD, NOW. Practice until its natural. Ignore angle of lean. Ignore whether you think the tyres will handle it. When the shit hits the fan you are already screwed, so forget your' and the bikes' limitations and push hard on those bars and just do it. You might even find some new zone you haven't ridden in before.. ;)

Glad you weren't hurt. :whistle:

DB

[2Slow50]

I know this road, I ride it everyday. Similar incidences have almost cost me a slide or two as well..

Its fine to try and figure out how to get yourself out of a problem like that, but its best if you can avoid getting into that situation at all in the first place. Those basin corners really suck because of all the intersections on it.. Now when I ride around there, I ALWAYS take one of the middle lanes, except when you have to turn off.. this way you don't have to do an emergency swerve when someone pulls out of their give way..

Just my 2c.. try avoid getting into sticky situations that force you to take evasive action to the best of your ability.

Good to hear you weren't hurt.

[CB ARGH]

I got owned there. :spanking:

My bad guys, just stating what I thought.

[RantyDave]

I know this road, I ride it everyday.
Same here, and I've got to say you're lucky to be able to get any speed up - I seem to find myself lane splitting up there most days.

It also has some man hole covers, so try to remember where they are. There's one right on the crossing just before Mt Vic tunnel. If you slid on it you'd end up in the railings of the crossing IIRC. So, don't do that.

There's quite often diesel on the downhill coming out of Mt Vic tunnel too.

Nasty bit of road. I hate it.

Dave

[Mom]

Actually, I worry more about the ones who are too old to be fuckers any more. And the ones who are so fat and ugly that I refuse to believe that anything would fuck them.

You forgot the ones with hats on! Now they are really dangerous to encounter.

[FROSTY]

[quote=Chad;1606908 doing a reasonable speed, not exactly sure what; wasn't going too fast,, when a car ignored the giveway and pulled out right across my lane and stopped.
I had seen her coming, and had seen that she had seen me (if that makes sense) and simply made the fatal assumption she would stop. Stupid of me and I do know better, but anyway off topic.[/quote]
Ya pretty much answered your own question dude.
You saw her--at that point I feel you should have been taking evasive action.On the brakes slowing
The other thing again you already know it You laid the bike down. better off staying on the brakes and maybee stopping.
But its not the perfect world so who knows

[avgas]

assumption
Is the mother of all fuckups
her church in in Onehunga

[jrandom]

trust to your tyres...

A bad idea on cold Pirelli Supercorsas.

:doh:

[Ixion]

If you can't trust them, replace them.

[Chad]

yes, so as I stated, and has been restated and restated, I made a poor assumption to start with :stupid: Usually when I'm riding I assume that everyone is either retarded, trying to kill me, or both. But thats also why I put the bike down; I have been practicing target fixation a lot - going between the catseyes on Mway is good - but by that point I would be having to make another dangerous assumption that she would stop at all, and if she didn't and I simply looked where I wanted to go, I'd be over her bonnet or into the side of her anyway. As it happened she did stop, but from my point of view it was way too 50/50 to risk it: slide on road or headfirst over car?
In terms of standing the bike back up and trying to break to a stop, normally I would, but in this case even that short second to stand up out of cornering and apply the breaks would most likely still have put me into the side of her.
And I still got pretty lucky anyway: a few scrapes and a couple of big bruises. Same thing happened to my mate on his scooter a month ago but he dislocated his hip and smashed his knee cap...

Well, I've heard more or less what I expected too, each time is often just case by case, and I've now well and truly learned the "everyones an arsehole" rule. At least all damage to bike and any required treatment is covered. And don't worry, I'm not simply relying on that: paralysis can only be treated so much, and death not at all... Thanks for all replies

[Motu]

You forgot the ones with hats on! Now they are really dangerous to encounter.

Especially the ones on sideways! - although sometimes it's hard to tell when they are sitting on the floor.

[avgas]

"everyones an arsehole" rule.
Yes, and assumptions about arseholes makes you gay i hear :dodge:

[dpex]

Sadly, today. I passed by a Yami R1 slumped against a lamp-post, on a corner.

I stopped and went over for a look. There was bits of fairing piled in a pile and, oddly enough, the speedo. The front forks were bent well over 30 degrees off-line.

And there it was. This lovely bike, simply left slumped against the lamp-post. I felt like picking it up and taking it home, like one maybe sometimes does with abandoned street-kids.

Later, I described the scene to Frosty. He didn't hesitate. 'That guy will be in hospital somewhere,' said Frosty.

And I thought, 'Man, that sucks. Imagine being in the mangled department knowing the love of your life is out there, somewhere, waiting for the ungodly to simply pick her up and take her away for illegal parts.'

That's why I wanted to take her home. Then find the owner and tell him his love was in safe hands. But I couldn't find a way to fit an R1 into my Suzuki Cultus.

Yeah, sure, he'd be insured and you could say he could say, 'Who cares'? But I'd care. My bike and me...Well, we're kinda...Buddies. And one does not want leave a broken buddy leaning against a lamp-post, in the burbs, uncared for.

I drove away feeling quite sad for all concerned in this tragedy.

[Ixion]

Hm. usually in an injury accident the cops will turn up (eventually) and they will (credit where due) usually organise recovery of the vehicle to a place of safety .

[dpex]

You say you put the bike down and slid into the car.

I'd be keen to know two things.

1. What benefit is there in putting the bike down in such circumstances.

2. How does one do it?

[Pwalo]

You say you put the bike down and slid into the car.

I'd be keen to know two things.

1. What benefit is there in putting the bike down in such circumstances.

2. How does one do it?

FWIW I think you're wasting your time with this scenario. The idea is not to crash, and not to think about crashing.

You want to be looking for solutions rather than problems. As soon as you 'put the bikedown' you aren't in control of the situation. Not to mention you'll probably ruin a perfectly useful piece of machinery.

[avgas]

look where you WANT to go........
the rest is magic.....
i kid you not - on your way home today, ride up to your driveway and look at the house.......without you knowing the whole bike will turn into your driveway.

[slimjim]

DUDE !! YOU WHAT...... !!!!!!! Sorry You Can't .. you should be thankfull you Lived .... lesson learnt...:devil2:

[ManDownUnder]

In hindsight - there's a lot you can do - but in the cold light of day everything happens so damned fast there isn't a lot you can "do" as such - experience (or lack of it) will determine the outcome.

So - skills that will minimise the damage...
1) Look at the gap, not the obstacle. Target fixation is your enemy
2) Cornering and braking
3) Street smarts. As Ixion said waaaaay back in about the 4th post... if you saw her - you should be anticipating what she could have done.

Last - ATGATT. God only knows whejn this stuff could happen. Be ready.

ESP isn't something we all have, and I don't know how long you've been driving/riding (forgive me if I'm teaching you to suck eggs)... but when you get "that feeling"... just slow down a little. Sounds like a crock but a lot of long timers will swear by it... and you don't get to be a long timer if you keep hitting thing.

MDU over and under

[Toaster]

look where you WANT to go........

Exactly! The hard bit is avoiding the phenomenon of "target fixation" where people naturally focus on the very object they need to avoid and thereby aim towards it.

[swbarnett]

but when you get "that feeling"... just slow down a little.
Or speed up depending on how close you are at the time. No point hitting someone slowly if a bit more speed would've taken you past before they cross your path.

[ManDownUnder]

Or speed up depending on how close you are at the time. No point hitting someone slowly if a bit more speed would've taken you past before they cross your path.

I see what you're saying but I meant that feeling you sometimes get when you think something could happen sooner - or in the next hour.... everything's normal - yet it's just a bit odd... those that have been there will know.

[FROSTY]

You say you put the bike down and slid into the car.

I'd be keen to know two things.

1. What benefit is there in putting the bike down in such circumstances.

2. How does one do it?
DONT do it as a matter of choice. This a a myth from back in the days when a bike did indeed stop faster on its side than with its brakes.
On a modern bike you will ALWAYS stop faster/get your speed to something reasonable better when the bike is on its two wheels using the brakes to best of their ability to stop you.

If you are in the situation that hitting the side of that cage is inevitable DONT go down.
The idea is to get away from the crash scene.
Id suggest standing up -raise your bum out of the sear--loosen the grip on the bars.
The front of the bike is going to dive then start to crumble downwards.
Momentum is going to throw you forwards. At that point you want to be going slightly up.
This is going to throw you clear of all the bike bits likely to damage your family jewls and up over the car.
Then you starfish and thank gosh you invested in all that great protective gear--as you slide down the road creating story worthy marks in your boots n leathers.

In a nutshell like the old parachuting story--nahh mate taint the fall that fucks ya --its the sudden stop at the end.--avoid the sudden stop

[slimjim]

..Fuck That Gona Hurt................ either way ride to live

[swbarnett]

I see what you're saying but I meant that feeling you sometimes get when you think something could happen sooner - or in the next hour.... everything's normal - yet it's just a bit odd... those that have been there will know.
Of course. I completely misread that. I agree completely.

[GaZBur]

You say you put the bike down and slid into the car.

I'd be keen to know two things.

1. What benefit is there in putting the bike down in such circumstances.

2. How does one do it?

1. Its only of benefit if you are guaranteed to hit something solid in the next 2 seconds or more - it puts the bike between you and what you hit, maybe moving it slightly or reducing your inevitable impact.
2. Release front brake, lock rear brake - steer left to lowside the bike on its left side.
I am not sure of the experts opinion but my gut says stay with the bike while it is between you and aforementioned immovable object otherwise, slide - do not roll to a stop in your wonderfull protective gear.

[Ixion]

You say you put the bike down and slid into the car.

I'd be keen to know two things.

1. What benefit is there in putting the bike down in such circumstances.

2. How does one do it?

What Mr Frosty said. Don't. This is a hangover from the days of gravel roads and case iron hub ornaments. You will have a far far better chance staying upright and braking. And a better chance still by staying upright and dodging.

The only exceptions I would make are if staying with the bike is going to mean going over a cliff (you'll have a better chance sliding over the cliff and being slowed by vegetation, than going over on the bike and being flung off ) ; or if staying with the bike means going into something like a fire (crash ahead of you and they've caught fire). Or, maybe, on a gravel road (not always though)

They myth is still widely prevalent in the USA whence it seems to have been reexported to our shores. As a young rider I heard it mentioned , and met folk who had done it. Then it almost completely disappeared. Now it's back. It's bad. Don't do it

[Kiwi Graham]

I recon next time you think someone has seen you, you may think twice eh! Expect the unexpected and you'll be right.
With only a second to react to this situation you options are limited.....try and pass in front, try and pass behind or try and stop! For the first two options all you can do is look at the escape route and hope you make it, push the bar (the side you want to go) and she'll turn in quick! Trust your tyres to cope with the direction change and the probable lean angle that will happen, (worth practising this sometime). The last option is try and stop, You will be amazed at how fast a modern bike can stop and I'll bet you've got no where near the limit of your bikes braking ability (again worth practicing this) Get the bike upright and apply both brakes progressively to the point of lock up. You can 'hear' as well as feel what the front tyre will be doing, to be honest the rear brake will be acting more for ballance rather than 'stopping power' at this stage.
These are basic skills you should practice in a safe area on a good road surface to gain confidence in you and your bikes ability.
Find someone thats been around bikes for a while and talk to them about survival and incident avoidance skills. Good luck.

[Chad]

You say you put the bike down and slid into the car.

I'd be keen to know two things.

1. What benefit is there in putting the bike down in such circumstances.

2. How does one do it?

1. As has been stated, none. Because it was a nice warm day and I was just pottering home, the jeans I were wearing tore open as soon as my knee hit the ashphalt (wear proper gear!!) and as such I lost a chunk out of my knee and am about to go back to physio again almost a year down the track now. The sleeve of my lovely vinyl jacket (again, WEAR PROPER GEAR!!) also slid straight up and I lost half the skin off my forearm, however no permanant damage there.

The only upside I could possibly see in this situation would be sliding into the side of the car as opposed to goin over the bonnet and risking possible neck/spine injury on landing, but I reakon far too uncertain to gamble on.

2. I did not do this on purpose. Thinking back I'm pretty sure I just slammed on the front break and the bike went down because of the angle I was at, but it could just as easily have gone high side and thrown me into or over the car anyway, and as such I would never do this on purpose anyway. Along with the fact that I HATE sandin down fiberglass all over my nice farings and its not worth the bollucking around.

Have to say though, I still love this lil bit of road when its quiet, the ash is real beaut n smooth round there and quite a nice little "s". Well, was last time I went that way, bikes been garaged up for a few months now *sniff*

[Cr1MiNaL]

Yup I've had the same thing done to me before (several times). Only I took the R6 offroading through the bush on the top of the round about and made it sweet. Didn't even bother stopping as I knew what she was going to say. I just cooly rode on, the traffic was still stagnant when I left.

[skidMark]

If all else fails yell fuck and go superman styles... just put your sidestand down as you bin and itll land on it christian pffeiffer styles.

It'll be choice i swear.

honest.

would i lie to you?

[wbks]

would i lie to you?*Cough*60 kilometers*cough*2seconds*cough