The Mut

[koba]

I have been working on turning the surplus racebike siting around the olds into a bucket. ( "before" photo of it in my profile)


It has an MC18 NSR250 frame.
After 3 attempts at making wheel spacers I have one good one for the front to the left of the front wheel, that will allow me to put rg150 wheels on it.
crazy (and good) thing is that the left/right position of the rg disk and the NSR brake caliper line up EXACTLY right!

That means all I need to do is try get a flat brake disk cut to match the NSR pattern friction surface and the RG150 bolt pattern. That should save having to make a intermediate extra brake bracket and I don't have a spare disk for the bucket so was going to have to get another anyway :clap:

The rear wheel will also be made to fit an RG150 wheel but I want ot wait untill I have the last main ingrediant: the engine before I do that part so I can make sure the sprokets line up all good and the like.

engine options are still open and I'm still not set, I could:

1) buy a loncin

2) Piss about with an old jap 4 stroke single that would lug the weight around okish (she's gunna be a porker!)

3)Piss baout with an old jap 2 smoker which means lots of tuning to get it reasonable but should have real high power potential once sorted

4) do the done thing and try find a CB125 engine...

5) Try a novel and tupid (but interesting..) topsecret (not really) plan involving a overcomplex motor that should give good power but be too heavy.


So far I need to look into option 5 a bit more but I'm swinging towards the loncin at the mo, mainly to get some practice and track time in. (fastest bucket in the world won't win me a race at the mo!)

Input?
suggestions?

anyone got an old superworked ready to go motor and a winning lotto ticket lying about....? - no but seriously has anyone got any potential motors for my overweight beast?


I will try post some pics in the next week or so if anyone is interested...


Pic is the "before" (before I even got my greasy mits on it!)

[nudemetalz]

I say go for the Loncin.

Cheap to obtain and have good power for what they are.
They are brand-new so you don't have to worry about internals condition.

More and more people are going the LongChin way, soon they'll have their own racing class !!! ;)

[Skunk]

...all I need to do is try get a flat brake disk cut to match the NSR pattern friction surface and the RG150 bolt pattern. That should save having to make a intermediate extra brake bracket and I don't have a spare disk for the bucket so was going to have to get another anywayI may be able to help there. I guess the cost would be about $150 but I'd have to submit the plans first.

[koba]

I say go for the Loncin.

Cheap to obtain and have good power for what they are.
They are brand-new so you don't have to worry about internals condition.

More and more people are going the LongChin way, soon they'll have their own racing class !!! ;)

I was almost sold, but seeing fishies one battling to keep up at ruapuna (on the straights) has made me doubt them a wee bit but the riding experiance gained from a reliable(assuming it is!) new motor may offset that a bit.
At this point I don't have the mad as ninja riding skills to make up for a lack of power but that doesn't matter as much at the slipway so maybe loncin it will be.

Just really thinking out loud here a bit....

[nudemetalz]

Come out on the 29th and take Lady P for a burn around the Slipway.
That way you can gain some experience with them.

I know they're not the most powerful bucket engine out there but they have a great spread of power.
Also, from what I've heard, Fishie's was more undergeared than underpowered at the BOB TT.

[Skunk]

I was almost sold, but seeing fishies one battling to keep up at ruapuna (on the straights) has made me doubt them a wee bit
As Nudes says, I think Fishies problem was lack of gearing not power. Remember too that those FXR aren't all std. The Loncin is.

[quallman1234]

You also have all the "hot up" kits for the loncin's.

Me thinks you should be a rebel and do something orignal.

[kiwicam]

a loncin

chinese housewives need the overtime

[koba]

Come out on the 29th and take Lady P for a burn around the Slipway.
That way you can gain some experience with them.

I know they're not the most powerful bucket engine out there but they have a great spread of power.
Also, from what I've heard, Fishie's was more undergeared than underpowered at the BOB TT.

Cheers, Im keen.
Mats four stroke (whatever it is) was really impressive, I couldn't ride it for long because the ergonomics where all wrong for me but it seems like the meaty tractor power would be good for learning and hauling a porky bucket around.


As Nudes says, I think Fishies problem was lack of gearing not power. Remember too that those FXR aren't all std. The Loncin is.
Yeah, he was hunting around for a 520 sprocket, so he has a chain on the heavy side too. definatley more potential.



You also have all the "hot up" kits for the loncin's.

Me thinks you should be a rebel and do something orignal.

The loncin is a good base to do some home hotup too as gettting it working right to start with should be eliminated, but then it would prob be best left or only mildly touched...


a loncin

chinese housewives need the overtime

Houswives are probably too expensive, children are heaps cheaper and have nice small hands.

[nudemetalz]

Yup I run a 428 chain and sprockets. Easy to get a wide range of size sprockets.

Lady P has a 30mm pumper carb but apart from that is stock.
I want to gain some more experience with setup and also my riding before I go looking for more power.

[koba]

Yup I run a 428 chain and sprockets. Easy to get a wide range of size sprockets.

Lady P has a 30mm pumper carb but apart from that is stock.
I want to gain some more experience with setup and also my riding before I go looking for more power.

Sounds like smart thinking.
Was the pumper the optional carb from Newmanz?

[Trudes]

Sounds good M. *waiting with eager anticipation*

[bungbung]

30mm pumper carb from Newmanz is a copy of the Keihin used on a GL145. It's hardly an upgrade, just the other carbs he has are more like a downgrade...

Matt's bucket is powered by a XL125 motor, which is pretty similar but with a six speed box instead of 5.

[nudemetalz]

Sounds like smart thinking.
Was the pumper the optional carb from Newmanz?

Certainly is the one.
Seems to carburet well too when warm, just quite lean when cold and needing choke for a while.

Yeah, they're no powerhouse but work well though.

[koba]

30mm pumper carb from Newmanz is a copy of the Keihin used on a GL145. It's hardly an upgrade, just the other carbs he has are more like a downgrade...

Matt's bucket is powered by a XL125 motor, which is pretty similar but with a six speed box instead of 5.

haha! just like the oneten then!
the carb that had on it was tiny

XL125 added to search list....

[koba]

Certainly is the one.
Seems to carburet well too when warm, just quite lean when cold and needing choke for a while.

Yeah, they're no powerhouse but work well though.

May prevent me from having to take on more piles of crap (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-accessories/Engine-drive-train/auction-159750572.htm)too.

[bungbung]

That could be quite cheap crap though...

[koba]

That could be quite cheap crap though...

yeah, looks tempting <_<

Out of room for crap, got to get rid of one of the fleet to take on more.
Maybe soon tho....

[Str8 Jacket]

Out of room for crap, got to get rid of one of the fleet to take on more.


Phew! Im glad to see that we've made a break through! ;)

[gav]

Why make it heavier? Why not fit a MB100 motor?

[koba]

Why make it heavier? Why not fit a MB100 motor?

I will If I can find a decent one for a decent price in the time it takes me to save up for a loncin.
I've been on the look out for one, and the six cogs from the 50.
There is a pretty hot one here at the mo...:shifty:
I would be dead if I touched it tho!

[Sketchy_Racer]

save your self the money buy a crashed fxr150 if it's got bent forks ones off the RG will fit.. so will the wheels, brakes...

It will be

1- Fast
2- Reliable
3- Reliable..

Depends if you prefeer to tinker though. I like to tinker, but I also like turning up to a race meeting just to ride, and not fix shit. (insert $200 DR200 here)

[koba]

save your self the money buy a crashed fxr150 if it's got bent forks ones off the RG will fit.. so will the wheels, brakes...

It will be

1- Fast
2- Reliable
3- Reliable..

Depends if you prefeer to tinker though. I like to tinker, but I also like turning up to a race meeting just to ride, and not fix shit. (insert $200 DR200 here)

Yeah you are right.
I just wanna work with what I have tho, Would buy an FXR motor if one comes up but the alloy NSR frame I already have should be better. I could sell it but I'm usless at selling shit and am a bit of a hoarder.
I compared the bare RG150 and NSR frames a while ago (FXR should be similar to the RG) and the Steel RG frame was WAAAY heavier.
If it turns out OK I should only have to worry about the engine as the rest should be sweet to go.

Your right again in that I pretty much do like to "tinker" (piss about)! a bit!

I got the other front spacer finished tonight so that should be good to gonow with only the disk and master cylinder swap to finish the front end. I don't think I can handle the brake feeling from using 2 caliper master cylinder, I crashed Skunks ZX1R by not being able to cope with that.
I have a VT one that should be just the ticket.

[speedpro]

IF you are looking for an XL125 engine, the only one you want is the XL125S. Big head and nice 6 speed box.

[koba]

Koba works on getting the Streetstock running right...

[koba]

...




























And a little bucket waits...

[Skunk]

Stop posting and start doing!:lol:

[koba]

Stop posting and start doing!:lol:

Jeeze, Im so bad I havn't even managed to update the thread with photos and plans of what I haven't got around to doing yet!

I'm going insane trying to find the sprocket carrier bit off the spare rg at the moment, Im sure I had it somewhere...
Bloody hard to make a bucket without it!

[deanohit]

...And a little bucket waits...
Impatiently. :laugh:

[SHELRACING]

Is that the bike that was on trade me, I think it had a 6 hundy motor in it.

Anway I Don't think it would be over heavy once stripped back. I have a FZ Deltabox frame for my next project which would be a similar weight.
Concentrate on getting your steering and suspension right before looking for heaps of power.

I run a Loncin motor, out of the box is is a bit gutless. The standard carb is crap. Unfortunately the pumper carb is an upgrade but worth every cent. The Loncin motor is very reliable mines had a good thrashin. Very easy to handle with good torque and power spread. Further mods eg Head, and cam work get a bit expensive (unless you can do it yourself).

and for the money spent you could buy a S/H FXR motor.

[koba]

Is that the bike that was on trade me, I think it had a 6 hundy motor in it.

Anway I Don't think it would be over heavy once stripped back. I have a FZ Deltabox frame for my next project which would be a similar weight.
Concentrate on getting your steering and suspension right before looking for heaps of power.

I run a Loncin motor, out of the box is is a bit gutless. The standard carb is crap. Unfortunately the pumper carb is an upgrade but worth every cent. The Loncin motor is very reliable mines had a good thrashin. Very easy to handle with good torque and power spread. Further mods eg Head, and cam work get a bit expensive (unless you can do it yourself).

and for the money spent you could buy a S/H FXR motor.


Yep thats the one.
It was an interesting racebike, had alot of problems relating to getting the big vibratey single to work nicley in a light aluminium frame.
I entered four rounds of winter series on it and didn't get a single clean run on it, shame really as with a bit more work it could be made to go quite well.
It was a monster beast with so much low down grunt in such a little frame.
It had the biggest sprocke it could fit on the front (17 i think) but needed a smaller rear as that was 45 teeth.
Weird feeling having it in 5th gear down the back stright under a red flag - take the hand off the throttle and it would idle along it top at probably a hundie kays!

But I digress.
It is the one, soon to be bucketised. (when I get off my arse!)
I have been looking at engine options and the final form will probably be serious but for now I'm just going to bung in the first available option while I (as you say) gaet the rest of the bike sorted.
It handles MINT with a 48kg engine in it so hopefully a lighter one won't hurt.

[koba]

Oh, and the frame and swingarm is around 12.7kg, the subframe is 5.8 at the moment.

The subframe can be made a fair bit lighter now, it had to have a bit of meat in it before to handle the big single.

I am thinking of making a thin fibreglass dummy fuel tank kind of like an Aprilia RS50 and having a small plastic tank under it (Rip off of Kyles bucket!)

I will be putting a bit of steel bracing into the old front engine mounts tho as crash protection, I want to avoid bending these if at all possible because I may need them in the future.

[speedpro]

I'm having trouble envisaging how the subframe connects to the engine.

[koba]

I'm having trouble envisaging how the subframe connects to the engine.

It doesn't.
(Altho I did make and engine cradle subframe thing for it)
The frame connects to the engine and anything connected to the frame or engine or anything connected to anything connected to the engine needed to be able to handle the vibration transmitted thru the whole lot.

Including the rider.. When I put solid alloy pegs on it I couldn't weight the pegs because it would vibrate my feet off!
It was ok with heavy rubber ones tho.

Until I owned this bike I wondered why Harleys are built like brick shit houses and old beezers drop indicators like CB125's drop valves.:dodge:

Anyone want to buy a modified KLR600 engine?!

[quallman1234]

Anyone want to buy a modified KLR600 engine?!

I think a 600cc vibrator would be more approiate.

[koba]

I think a 600cc vibrator would be more approiate.

Whatever you do with it is YOUR business! :lol:

[koba]

Bugger.
Project now on hold.
Both running RG's in the family died today :shit:
One with a rattly bigend and the other a nasty piston seizure.
One week 'till the next round to fix the race one and urgency on the road one because it is primary transport.

[deanohit]

Bugger.
Project now on hold.
Both running RG's in the family died today :shit:
One with a rattly bigend and the other a nasty piston seizure.
One week 'till the next round to fix the race one and urgency on the road one because it is primary transport.
Bugger mate, good luck getting them sorted. :rockon:

[quallman1234]

Bugger.
Project now on hold.
Both running RG's in the family died today :shit:
One with a rattly bigend and the other a nasty piston seizure.
One week 'till the next round to fix the race one and urgency on the road one because it is primary transport.

You can get Rod Kits for 250, off Motorcycle parts.
SAECO for the Bearings (Only need C3).
SEL for the seals.

Way cheaper than the way you did it last time ;).

[Str8 Jacket]

You can get Rod Kits for 250, off Motorcycle parts.
SAECO for the Bearings (Only need C3).
SEL for the seals.

Way cheaper than the way you did it last time ;).

Gee whizz. A bit late, dontcha think!!! Poor mr koba is working his arse off, all night after work to get these RG's sorted. You should call in to his olds place and give him a hug....

[koba]

You can get Rod Kits for 250, off Motorcycle parts.
SAECO for the Bearings (Only need C3).
SEL for the seals.

Way cheaper than the way you did it last time ;).

Cheers man, I have noticed the genuine suzuki stuff is fancier with Viton seals and the like but yeah the cheaper stuff seems to handle the jandle ok.

Having seen the difference between a genuine and one type of aftermarket head gasket I can understand the price difference but it kinda makes me want to have a go at making one out of copper...

Hugs may be a bit much...

[quallman1234]

Cheers man, I have noticed the genuine suzuki stuff is fancier with Viton seals and the like but yeah the cheaper stuff seems to handle the jandle ok.

Having seen the difference between a genuine and one type of aftermarket head gasket I can understand the price difference but it kinda makes me want to have a go at making one out of copper...

Hugs may be a bit much...

Talk to the guy at SEL again, im sure he can find some viton seals etc. They have ever single seal that is made by SEL in stock, and some more.

[koba]

Talk to the guy at SEL again, im sure he can find some viton seals etc. They have ever single seal that is made by SEL in stock, and some more.

Bah, he knows his shit aye.
From that wealth of knowlede about both bikes and seals he deetermined viton was unesserary unless somthing goes wrong and it gets waay to hot.

[koba]

I greatly enjoy reading all the stuff TZ, Speedpro, F5 Dave and others post up about what they are up to and how their projects are going so I should probably update mine a bit more!

Right, a fair bit has happened over the last few years, not quite as much as I would have liked but I guess we all get that!

The MB100 is the choice I settled on for an engine in the end, but before I did that I bought an entire running MB from Bryce at Buckets 'n Bits for $400 and ran that "as is" for a while.
It was standard except the usual strip down and it had a really snappy (fun!) chamber on it.

I ran that as my bucket for a while but always intended to put the engine in the NSR frame. I had a few second thoughts about this as I raced the MB because I did quite like it and the light weight made it quite fast for what it was.
It was also a bit of a hoot to take out on wet grass and have a skid with its old solid baldies.
I gave a reasonable amount of thought to working on the MB frame and suspension to try and make it handle better but it the end I decided to stick with the original plan.

Mounting the engine.

Mounting the engine was quite a bit harder than I expected. I changed the design around lots but I'm glad I did as I ended up with a design that works well in all aspects. (Shit that sounds like a bit from a jap sales brochure!)
I managed to build it all (with design help from my patient father!) so it required no welding and it is plenty light.

Wheels.

I ditched the RG150 rims, I had a disk made up and it was all looking good but I came to realise they weren't up to the task; I needed slicks!

That meant buying a rear rim to suit, cheers to Bryce again that was easy sorted.
Spacers made, used the standard old NSR front rim (2.5').
At some point I will remove one front caliper but there are many more urgent things to address before I get to that point.

To Be Continued...

[koba]

Pic 372 shows rear engine mount.

Pic 373 shows gear shifter adapted to suit.

[Buckets4Me]

Pictures :yes:

and chears for that
makes me want to get my bike out again

[koba]

Pictures :yes:

and chears for that
makes me want to get my bike out again

I'm not so up with having all the bling stuff so have to borrow things like cameras, I've got a few photos but really have to take quite a few more!

[F5 Dave]

lets see, sunday isn't far off. I'm usually pretty regular in the morning, but I could hold off for a few hours till I get to the track. Don't make me commit Keihin-Faecalcide:shutup:

[Str8 Jacket]

lets see, sunday isn't far off. I'm usually pretty regular in the morning, but I could hold off for a few hours till I get to the track. Don't make me commit Keihin-Faecalcide:shutup:

:corn:

<davepoohpoohpants>

[Str8 Jacket]

I dare you Dave....



DOUBLE DARE YOU!

[koba]

lets see, sunday isn't far off. I'm usually pretty regular in the morning, but I could hold off for a few hours till I get to the track. Don't make me commit Keihin-Faecalcide:shutup:

Is it this Sunday?!?

Shit time sneaks up!!

I might be in the shit.
Or the shit might be in my carb.

Or somthing like that...

[koba]

More update on the build...

Because I had changed the rear rim and changed the swingarm to one that didn't have the centre of the pivot cut out to fit into the KLR case I had to re-engineer the rear brake. I'm not a big user of rear brake on the track so approached it with an eye to making it "Emergency only".
I followed the fashion and mounted a pushbike disk brake caliper on the rear, using a plate I cut out of aluminium. This one was even less serious than the other couple I've seen (I think Sketchys was the first, using some bits from Richban) because it was a cable operated one.
I turned the disk down on the ol' trusty home lathe to suit the smaller brake and flatten the old groovy disk out a bit.

It did actually work OK but before the GP at Taupo I was keen to get some more stopping power, just in case - higher speed track and all.

I've still got the setup and will probably return to it at some point with a bit of work on the leverage ratio, it wasn't right for the cable operation, plus there was too much flex in the foot end of the mounting.

To up the stopping for the GP I bought cheapo a Chinese caliper off trademe for $71 shipped, including pads and fluid! I mounted this on another plate and re-jigged the lever in another late night working on the bike with the old man.
He's really good at pointing out obvious flaws in my plan, (in a good way!) and I was gutted but relieved I hadn't got too far when he pointed out the thread on the rod to the master cylinder was rolled. That means the thread could't just be cut further up the shank of the rod so I had to modify the plan to suit.

To Be Continued Some More...


Pic Shows the old first brake system.

[Henk]

I'm not so up with having all the bling stuff so have to borrow things like cameras, I've got a few photos but really have to take quite a few more!

If you haven't taken any pics by Taumarunui remind me when we get there and we'll do a bit of a photo shoot early Saturday night.

[koba]

If you haven't taken any pics by Taumarunui remind me when we get there and we'll do a bit of a photo shoot early Saturday night.

Ohh Goody!

What should I wear!?

[Dutchee]

Ohh Goody!

What should I wear!?
Clothes, your helmet, dark visor. Just make sure you do your hair.

[koba]

Clothes, your helmet, dark visor. Just make sure you do your hair.

I don't think it can be done...

[Henk]

If you are naked the photo shoot probably won't work. The camera will still function but I may not. Or we could just take photos of your bike.

[koba]

Thats probably the best for everyones sake!

[koba]

OK, Time for another update.

As this is being written so piecemeal and from memory I'm going to miss stuff and get a few things out of order. Oh, well.

To fix the rear brake rod I cut the threaded end off, removed a bit and the welded it on to make it shorter. Its amazing how close to sensitive bits you can get with a welder if you hit it will a soaking wet rag as soon as the spark goes out.

TRRS 2010

This event was bloody brilliant.
The amount of buckets on the track absolutely astounding, by far the biggest grid I've ever seen.

Anyway, I had a crack on my bike.
It went quite well considering it was so close to standard and seemed to keep pace with Dave D's bike when his was missing like crazy.

*Sarky Voice* So if his makes, say, 24 horse then if it was firing every 2 strokes it must have been making 12, ergo my bike was making 12 horsepower. *end sarky voice*

OK, I know that is me being silly but 12 horsepower may not have been far from the truth!

I did OK in qualifying and I think Shorty was the only bike ahead of me on slicks.
The oil rainbows all over the track helped me out, it knocked a lot of peoples confidence but this time my bad eyesight actually worked in my favour!

The bike crapped out in the GP, I thought it was due to water ingestion through fuel or air, but I found out later (After quite a few events!) that it was the kill-switch not being waterproof. Should have listened to Mr Bell on that one.

I spent a lot of the GP watching Andrew A sliding his way to victory in the wet.

[koba]

That jive above is Dave giving me shit because between Taupo and Taumaranui (As in time between the events rather than geographically.) F5 Dave was "encouraging" me to finish the work I was doing at the time in order to graft a larger carb onto the barrel.
His way of motivating me was to say "If I see that carb again, I will shit in it."

So I did actually get it grafted on for the next round.

I will try get pics at some point (haha, yeah right!) but for now I will roughly describe it.

After picking the brains of Dave, Bryce, Speedpro and others I went for a plan that incorporated input from all three plus a few ideas of my own.

I used the obligatory RD350 reed block, (Cheers RDJase!) I cleaned it up and added RG150 reeds.
The I hacked out the barrel to fit it but rather than do it the more traditional way using the RD manifold I opted to use an RGV250 one that my mate Gareth had gifted me.
It sounds like it wouldn't work but its a better fit than you would think.
The RGV has big stuffers on it and the reed block is quite deep so the transition from the round carb mount to the 6 petal block is over quite a distance.
By cutting the stuffers off the exit hole on the manifold is quite close to the inlet size of the 4 petal RD reed block.
I made an adapter piece that bolted to the barrel at one side and the RGV manifold at the other. The reed block fits nicely in a recess on the face of this adapter and is clamped in place by the RGV Manifold. I devconed around the join between the adapter and barrel to ensure it doesn't leak.

I had 2 carbs to try, one off an RG150 and another the 32 RGV carb (Cheers again Gareth!)
After a bit of testing on each I decided to start with the RG150 one, (28mm) as the bike hardly wanted to run on the 32.
Maybe I'll get the 32 working at some point but the 28 will be fine for now.
I didn't use the powerjet bit as it was broken and because of that I want up heaps in mainjet size.

Next... The results.

[F5 Dave]

Check the 32mm one has two air jet inputs that usually live with soilinoids attached to them. At least mine does. I can show you which ones. I think it should run ok with the idle one blocked off (still on in the carb face) & possibly the main one blocked off, or alternatively with a small pilot jet in it.

[koba]

Check the 32mm one has two air jet inputs that usually live with soilinoids attached to them. At least mine does. I can show you which ones. I think it should run ok with the idle one blocked off (still on in the carb face) & possibly the main one blocked off, or alternatively with a small pilot jet in it.

Sweet, When I tried it I blocked them both off.
I blocked the one on the 28mm carb off but now that you mention it the penny drops because the other one wasn't there and instead it had a bleed screw...

[koba]

Righto...

Working on the bucket constantly gets shoved to the back of the priorities list, well, almost to the back; writing about it is slightly further back.

So, last major news was that it went on the dyno and got it's horsepowers measured.

Mods from std at that point were:


28mm flatslide from RG150
RD350 Reedblock with fibre reeds from RG150
Extra inlet ports each side of the main inlet port
Terrible miss-match (2mm on all sides) in the inlet tract (the 'wrong' way)
Completely std exhaust port, bad miss-match and all
No head gasket with squish at 0.6mm
Leaking head from no gasket or o-ring
Std ignition


Horsepower on the dyno: 11

Yes, seriously, 11 Horsepower.

At 7800 RPM, so it does have a decent turn of torque but that only lasts for 1000 rpm.
There is a wheezy lump of 8 or so horsepower further up in the revs.

My theory is: The terrible ports in and out and the very mild std port timing, combines with dropping the primary compression ratio (With the way I added the carb and reedblock) to not allow the engine to breath and rev free enough to even get on the pipe properly. So, I'm left with most of the charging coming from the now significantly lower crank-case compression.

As an experiment I put the other barrel back on.
This had a "cleaned up" exhaust port which had the standard windows on each side but had been smoothed out between. It wasn't perfect and showed carbon build-up in areas of little flow. I filed and ground until it looked a lot better. I took the chance to widen the port to just under 70% and raised it a fraction. I also changed the shape of the top a wee bit to try and get a bit more area up there while still keeping it ring-friendly. Standard sort of work.

So with this barrel back on and the std reed-block and carb back in place I took it for a run up the street. I soon discovered I'd forgotten the top bolt holding the right footpeg in place had sheared off in the last race. :doh: It gave me a fright for the second time.

From running it up the street (No jetting changes yet) it felt really smooth and linear, definitely revved higher and probably made more power even if just from that. I'd put a new (yes, new!) head gasket in and it had no signs of leaking.

My arse-dyno as terrible so I really can't tell if it has any more grunt or not, we will see if I get it out for a race. It will be interesting to see which basic mod (Ex or In) makes more difference in an otherwise standard engine. Next on the list is to combine both sides.

[Clivoris]

:clap: Thank goodness you are getting on to it. Let Hel's cook her own eggs for a while.

[Henk]

:clap: Thank goodness you are getting on to it. Let Hel's cook her own eggs for a while.

That's bloody brave from a guy that lives in the same city. Coming to Te Puke fat boy?

[koba]

Though I'd add a few pics.

Anyone got any thoughts on the funny wee marks on the piston crown?

[koba]

:clap: Thank goodness you are getting on to it.

There is a high likelyhood my "improvements" could slow it further or kill it...

[Str8 Jacket]

:clap: Thank goodness you are getting on to it. Let Hel's cook her own eggs for a while.

The way he's going he can move into the shed in Upper Hutt and look after himself...... ;)

[F5 Dave]

Wow it actually looks quite racy from that angle. If you spent as much time on race tuning as you did on finding photo angles you'd be whipping us all.

btw I never bother with head gaskets on these MB engines. Just a ring of Loctite master gasket.

So increasing from 7800rpm to 12,000 one should expect quite some improvement in peak power. Clearly the pipe is a severe mismatch from the std porting. How long is the pipe? Before you start worrying about primary compression ratios, get the porting somewhere near what the pipe needs & or adjust the pipe to what it should be for the rev range you want to achieve.

Sometimes you just have to rip into it & make a few changes at once when you are so far away from the mark. Then get conservative as you get closer.

[speedpro]

Though I'd add a few pics.

Anyone got any thoughts on the funny wee marks on the piston crown?

Marks are from gas flow and not a problem. It isn't unusual to get bigger patches which have been cleaned off.

As F5 says, the pipe looks to be way short and a bad mismatch for stock ports.

A good reed block, reeds, and smoothing the whole lot out with devcon is easy free horsepower.

[Clivoris]

That's bloody brave from a guy that lives in the same city. Coming to Te Puke fat boy?

I'm like a fox terrier in a parked car, brave-as I am. Can't make it to Te Puke, I'm chief judge at a cake competition.

[koba]

Wow it actually looks quite racy from that angle. If you spent as much time on race tuning as you did on finding photo angles you'd be whipping us all.
Too true!


btw I never bother with head gaskets on these MB engines. Just a ring of Loctite master gasket.

I'd been using yamabond, wasn't working. Now you remind me I remember you have told me that before and I meant to try it. The idea got lost somewhere.


So increasing from 7800rpm to 12,000 one should expect quite some improvement in peak power. Clearly the pipe is a severe mismatch from the std porting. How long is the pipe? Before you start worrying about primary compression ratios, get the porting somewhere near what the pipe needs & or adjust the pipe to what it should be for the rev range you want to achieve.

My thoughts on the Primary compression are about what I think is happening rather than what I want to be happening!
Port timing changes are on the list but it's still a slap-together effort at the moment.
It think (quick glance at notes) the pipe works out to around 812mm tuned length (piston to mid-baffle).
Porting definitely needs to change, I'll worry more about the pipe once I get that about right.


Sometimes you just have to rip into it & make a few changes at once when you are so far away from the mark. Then get conservative as you get closer.
Totally, I'm beginning to think I'm a bit of a wus, but on reflection I'm happy with where thinga are for the time/money that's been put into it. (Not anywhere near as much as I'd like of either, but I guess it never will be!)


Marks are from gas flow and not a problem. It isn't unusual to get bigger patches which have been cleaned off.

Sweet, I'd just never seen them so 'focussed', got me guessing!



As F5 says, the pipe looks to be way short and a bad mismatch for stock ports.

If you got that idea from the photo, look real close... (plus it has a few twists that aren't obvious in the photo)


A good reed block, reeds, and smoothing the whole lot out with devcon is easy free horsepower.

Funny you should say that, I've just got back from the second day of careful 'sculpting' of the manifold and reed block entry. It's been on the to-do list for quite some time...

I'm like a fox terrier in a parked car, brave-as I am. Can't make it to Te Puke, I'm chief judge at a cake competition.
Save me some...

[speedpro]

I devcon the the inlet port on the downstream side of the reed block as well. My idea is to guide the mixture to the piston port with as few and little cross-sectional area changes as possible. Seems to work. You can hear an immediate change in the noise when doing back-back tests on the dyno and the motor runs a lot cleaner and nicer.

[koba]

I devcon the the inlet port on the downstream side of the reed block as well. My idea is to guide the mixture to the piston port with as few and little cross-sectional area changes as possible. Seems to work. You can hear an immediate change in the noise when doing back-back tests on the dyno and the motor runs a lot cleaner and nicer.

Good to hear, I've spent a few hours on it so far...

[Str8 Jacket]

I've spent a few hours on it so far...

Really? I hadn't noticed......

[F5 Dave]

well at least you know he isn't out chasin wimin.

[Str8 Jacket]

well at least you know he isn't out chasin wimin.

Oh I don't know, that Mut is a bit of a bitch...... ;)

[husaberg]

Woof woof woof.

[koba]

I found out part of my head sealing issues were from not having the washers under the head bolts.
One engine I got didn't have them. The head tightened down just enough without them when the head gasket was in but when I took it out it meant the threads bound up before there was sufficient crush.

Goes much better with the washers in.
Te Puke will be interesting, if I've got the exhaust port too far wrong it will eat the ring and kill itself. Better take the other barrel and another piston...

[F5 Dave]

As long as you've chamfered it it'll be fine, still very conservative.

yeah when you machine the head you need to shorten the head bolts or they bottom out.

Oh yeah & when I was replying to that text asking if you had power I was talking about electricity you muppet! we got put back on at 10pm

[koba]

As long as you've chamfered it it'll be fine, still very conservative.

yeah when you machine the head you need to shorten the head bolts or they bottom out.

Oh yeah & when I was replying to that text asking if you had power I was talking about electricity you muppet! we got put back on at 10pm

Oh right, I'm easily confused.

I've raised the barrel a bit and the exhaust port a bit more.
I'll likely go further later but I'm still being conservative (wussy) at this point.

Next on the list is a proper lightweight pipe, the current one is messy, damaged and REALLY heavy!

After a run down the road it didn't seem HEAPS faster. I pulled it apart again and changed the piston for a brand spanker. I put one new ring on.

I also got out a piece of glass and a few sheets of sand paper and lapped my not-so-good head for ages and ages until I took off enough material to get the squish clearance tighter. Again, it's still no perfect but is a step in the right direction.

I plodded up and down the street for a while on the new piston before I gave in and gave it one squirt. Still not a world beater but definitely much, much better.

EDIT: With the ring I'm mostly worried about the port window not being even enough left to right, It's bloody hard to get right! I think it is even now but I still worry about it causing the ring to but the peg out.

[Clivoris]

That sounds much better mate. If you want someone to sit around drinking and looking old while you work, give me a call. I've got some friends who aren't doing much.

[koba]

Haha, I could even supply the beer; I have a few crates of homebrew-faliures sitting next to the bike...

[F5 Dave]

you'll have to gfet it pretty unsymmetrical to cause an issue.

[koba]

you'll have to gfet it pretty unsymmetrical to cause an issue.

Good to hear.

[koba]

I've started on adapting the KX125 Ignition I brought.

It's handy that the taper is the same. (I must double check that though, I have only had a quick look.)

There is only one way the pulse-coil/signal generator thingy will fit in the cases so I will put it there and move the position of the rotor on the crankshaft.
It looks like it will sit in the right place, or close to it, if I un-rivet the centre of the rotor, move it around 2 holes and rivet it on again.

I should probably take some photos to jazz this thread up a bit.

[Dutchee]

I should probably take some photos to jazz this thread up a bit.

We could do that Saturday night, while we're behaving. Could be a good game in there somewhere. If we don't put it together quite right, be easier to load the bikes up on Sunday and we can put it together at Easter.

[koba]

Haha, true.

I've got a camera now. Actually two since that last time I didn't have a camera.
Both are broken!

First one got run over and the second somehow got a big crack in the screen.

I must upload the footage the first one was recording when it got ran over at Kaitoke. That's what happens if you leave your camera next to the track!

[Clivoris]

Haha, true.


First one got run over and the second somehow got a big crack in the screen.

That's what happens if you leave your camera next to the track!

Is that what happened to Hels?

[koba]

Is that what happened to Hels?

I must be slow, I honestly don't get it...

[kel]

I've started on adapting the KX125 Ignition I brought.

It's handy that the taper is the same. (I must double check that though, I have only had a quick look.)

There is only one way the pulse-coil/signal generator thingy will fit in the cases so I will put it there and move the position of the rotor on the crankshaft.
It looks like it will sit in the right place, or close to it, if I un-rivet the centre of the rotor, move it around 2 holes and rivet it on again.

I should probably take some photos to jazz this thread up a bit.

I have the complete 1988 version (stator/rotor/cdi) which has the in built pulse coil i.e. pulse coil mounted to the inside of the rotor rather than outside. We could do a swap, save you butchering the other one. Will bring it down to Tepuke for you to have a look at.

[koba]

I have the complete 1988 version (stator/rotor/cdi) which has the in built pulse coil i.e. pulse coil mounted to the inside of the rotor rather than outside. We could do a swap, save you butchering the other one. Will bring it down to Tepuke for you to have a look at.

Would be interesting to have a gander at it. I've got the rotor-puller packed up so we could actually see how it looks in the cases too.

I don't think the one I have already will need too much butchering, just clocking the centre around so the key-ways line up. The key-ways are different (narrower on rotor) but I understand keys can be made to suit.

[koba]

Will bring it down to Tepuke for you to have a look at.

Too much going on, as frequently happens I didn't remember half the shit I was meant to do, including actually talking to you properly about that.
I don't seem to recover from distractions well.

Should be sweet working with the one I've got now anyway.

[husaberg]

Update on Mut Kobas....

[koba]

Update on Mut Kobas....

I've had it running on a new ignition.
It's hard to judge the changes from a quick blat up the street so I'll know more after Sunday...

[F5 Dave]

This is going to make it harder to keep up with, the progress has been certain

[koba]

This is going to make it harder to keep up with

I hope it does. Still, the goalposts are moving a lot faster than my forward progress...

I am glad for the marked improvements.

[koba]

Righto, finally.

Sunday.
I started with the ignition at a real rough approximation of that standard firing point.

It was really hard to gauge changes in the icy conditions but in practice and race one it felt heaps more responsive over the lower half of the rev range but then it seemed to hit a wall higher up.

I retarded it rough as all hell to about 1mm retard on the OD of the stator plate.
It revved better but lost some crispness in the low-mid range.

Retarded about the same amount again later on and it got a bit harder to start.
Power started to get quite smooth but I'm sure it lost a bit in responsiveness.

I crashed 3 times and the conditions were a bit shit so I'm going to have to do some more testing before I decide on the best timing setting to use.
Still, the improvement was really noticeable with a MUCH lighter rotor than the standard MB100 one.
I suspected it may have made it harder to ride in tricky conditions but really it's increased responsiveness made things easier than before.

[kel]

Good news. If you do a google search on "kx125 ignition timing Eric Gorr" you should find some handy info on setup, your ignition is from a 1990 if memory serves me correct.
or try this link if it works http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=kuYFuUqzNBMC&pg=PA189&dq=kx125+ignition+timing+eric+gorr&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yfviT5rkNq2VmQWbppDVAw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

[koba]

Good news. If you do a google search on "kx125 ignition timing Eric Gorr" you should find some handy info on setup, your ignition is from a 1990 if memory serves me correct.
or try this link if it works http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=kuYFuUqzNBMC&pg=PA189&dq=kx125+ignition+timing+eric+gorr&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yfviT5rkNq2VmQWbppDVAw&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

I could read that. I've actually had a read of that book too (cheers Dave). It makes sense; it relates very closely to what I felt.

I know an Ignitec or similar would be just the go to get the optimum all the way through the range but the budget is tight and falling to zero as I'm soon to be unemployed.

[husaberg]

I could read that. I've actually had a read of that book too (cheers Dave). It makes sense; it relates very closely to what I felt.

I know an Ignitec or similar would be just the go to get the optimum all the way through the range but the budget is tight and falling to zero as I'm soon to be unemployed.

Have you rung about the top secret job:msn-wink:

[koba]

Have you rung about the top secret job:msn-wink:

I could tell you but then I'd have to...

No, not yet, I've been juggling a lot of stuff at the moment, and just to make it easier I've contracted a lungful of coughs.

[Str8 Jacket]

I've contracted a lungful of coughs.

AKA; Man Flu

[F5 Dave]

. . .
I crashed 3 times and the conditions were a bit shit . . .

. . .and so are your tyres. Change them for the ones I gave you. they are old, but better than what you've got.

[koba]

. . .and so are your tyres. Change them for the ones I gave you. they are old, but better than what you've got.

Yeah, must do that!

Dropped leathers in to Dusty's and met him for the first time. He seems cool.

[mossy1200]

I could tell you but then I'd have to...

No, not yet, I've been juggling a lot of stuff at the moment, and just to make it easier I've contracted a lungful of coughs.

I have the 120/17 superbike soft slick that I took off mine if you want it. Its in nice condition.

[koba]

I have the 120/17 superbike soft slick that I took off mine if you want it. Its in nice condition.

I've got a decent pair of 125 slicks Dave gave me ages ago, I'll give them a whirl first.
It may be interesting to give the 120 a try on the rear to see how it feels.

[mossy1200]

I've got a decent pair of 125 slicks Dave gave me ages ago, I'll give them a whirl first.
It may be interesting to give the 120 a try on the rear to see how it feels.

It was a good fit on 3inch rim.

[Henk]

I've had 125 slicks and wets in both 115 and 120. Doesn't seem to make any difference.

[koba]

It took around 6 years to get to it, in the end I spent around 2 hours on it!

[ac3_snow]

Looks choice! Like the colour.
Bring on Tokoroa in December??

[koba]

Looks choice! Like the colour.
Bring on Tokoroa in December??

I'm gunna fuck you up, 'coz mine is painted Red!

[husaberg]

Bucket très chic
Love its Hondalishness.
Looks so right.
The charonday wine corks add a touch of je ne sais qu

[F5 Dave]

I read I just though, Hope its not Green, Hope its not Green, Hope its not Green.

Stunning rattlecan job mate. I'm impressed how good it looks.

[Str8 Jacket]

I read I just though, Hope its not Green, Hope its not Green, Hope its not Green.

Stunning rattlecan job mate. I'm impressed how good it looks.

I am less than impressed with how mine looks...... :rolleyes:

[F5 Dave]

Walk into Supercheap, select a colour, buy a couple of cans & some sandpaper & you have a new hobby:msn-wink:. Preparation is 9/10ths of the job they tell me. Sadly that's where I fall down as I get bored easily.

[Str8 Jacket]

Walk into Supercheap, select a colour, buy a couple of cans & some sandpaper & you have a new hobby:msn-wink:. Preparation is 9/10ths of the job they tell me. Sadly that's where I fall down as I get bored easily.

I'd already done that. I even sanded, bogged and primed it all myself.

I haven't ridden it since Jan, it should look better than it does.

[F5 Dave]

Ohh. I C.

[Str8 Jacket]

Ohh. I C.

Meh, I was just taking the piss out of M..... I am actually stoked for him the bike looks awesome, he did a better job than I did on mine. Thinking I might just have to get him to do mine too.... ;)

[koba]

Meh, I was just taking the piss out of M..... I am actually stoked for him the bike looks awesome, he did a better job than I did on mine. Thinking I might just have to get him to do mine too.... ;)

Nah, yours was better at the start, give mine 10 months of race abuse and it won't be quite so sharp...

[Str8 Jacket]

Nah, yours was better at the start, give mine 10 months of race abuse and it won't be quite so sharp...

Ha, is this like reverse physchology cause you don't want to mine..... :p

[F5 Dave]

So several pages in . . .shouldn't Mutt have two 't's?

[Str8 Jacket]

So several pages in . . .shouldn't Mutt have two 't's?

No,cause then it'd be called the Mutt, duh! :p

[koba]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mut

She is about to have her first offspring...

[F5 Dave]

Meh I think you just googled a typo & decided to run with it:oi-grr:

http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/chudtsankov/chudtsankov1202/chudtsankov120200152/12353062-angry-dog-biting-a-african-american-dog-catcher.jpg

[ac3_snow]

I reckon its about right.


mut:
Australian slang for a dirty vagina
Nicole is pretty good looking but she has a fucking huge mut

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mut&defid=1418156

[husaberg]

Dave and Koba will i guess know this anyway but Metisse (as in Rickman Metisse)is french for mongrel. as in the other Mutt.

What do the chassis numbers stack up like now Malcolm. it actually doesn't look that long with the MB100 in it.
I guess the rake is still pretty shallow cause i only just noticed the rear stand height.

<img src="http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=288963&d=1382343398" width="340px"/>

[koba]

Rake is like a bus.

Sill need to jack the ares up heaps.


I didn't want to got with "Mutt" because it was like "Hutt", strange logic but it seemed right at the time. Half a decade ago!

[Henk]

Funny shade of pink.

[koba]

Funny shade of pink.

I did think about Pink, there were a few funky option on the cards, including leopard skin but in the end I went for cheap rattlecan red!

[Henk]

Looks good. Are you going to touch it up as you go along or let it degenerate over the years like mine has?

[koba]

Looks good. Are you going to touch it up as you go along or let it degenerate over the years like mine has?

Degenerate.
Like the owner.

[richban]

Degenerate.
Like the owner.

How much did that old sub frame weigh. Just looking at the one on my 250. It must have been a lot?

[koba]

How much did that old sub frame weigh. Just looking at the one on my 250. It must have been a lot?

More than a lot, The fibreglass was super thick plus I had to beef it up more to deal with the thrashing it took from the 600CC single that was in it originaly.

I think it was close to 6kg.

I went through the weigh shed in the weekend, the bike is currently at 83.5kg all fueled and ready to go.

[koba]

I fried my Jaycar kit CDI.

I'll use another for now, I may attempt to play with the design a bit.

Possible: To improve it for my application.
likely: Failure.
Certain: Learning something.

[Str8 Jacket]

I fried my Jaycar kit CDI.

I'll use another for now, I may attempt to play with the design a bit.

Possible: To improve it for my application.
likely: Failure.
Certain: Learing something.

Did you do the vacuming?

[F5 Dave]

Bark.Bark. Bark. Bark!

[Str8 Jacket]

Bark.Bark. Bark. Bark!

He sure was a happy man this morning Dave! :eek:

[koba]

Bark! Bark! Bark! Bark!

[koba]

Looks good. Are you going to touch it up as you go along or let it degenerate over the years like mine has?

It didn't take a year, the paint is already pretty scuffed!

AND, it's only been crashed 4 times since then.

I'm crashing less than I used to.

[koba]

So to update,
All that Barking Lark was about my power.

I got a lot more.

With the Jaycar kit it made 18hp BUT it was peakier than the southern alps with less an a 2k rmp band and nothing either side.

With a bit of fuddling around we managed to extend this a bit further but it was still really quite bad.

We tested the RS ignition too and it didn't work at all.

I did one Race day with the Jaycar kit, it was realy, really hard to punt it arround Kaitoke and My clutch took an absolute hiding.

Mike C loaned me Rogans bike (Similarly modified MB100) for one race which, even though I think it had a lower peak output it was much faster due to the greater power range.

This really demonstrated how important a good power range is on a Kart Track.


So, after removing the RS ignition I found it had slipped on the taper and the rivets holding the taper on had started to loosen. (Didn't have a key with me when I put it on). This one also has suspect windings, it was giving Dave issues when He last ran it.


I wasn't keen to Try Tokoroa with a peakmonster so I started to tee up several options:

1 - Borrowing Mikes CR Ignition.
2 - Repairing the RS Ignition and trying to get this working.


More soon...

[koba]

I Repaired the RS ignition by hitting it with a big hammer.
This worked but the coil was still suspect.

After a test run I found that it did seem to start breaking down once it got hot but it did take quite a lot, perhaps 5 laps of clean running in Race one, and 4 for the next races (Starting with more heat in it).

I may be mixing the order of all this up a wee bit.

I got them on the Dyno with the RS working well before Tokoroa, quite a dfference, there was a nasty dip but the RS was better on the track by miles.

I suspect (Hope) it will improve once I get the port timing to the designed specs, at the moment it is too low for the pipe I'm running.
I need to raise this and tidy up a few other rough parts, then I will start cutting pipe steel if this still isn't good enough.

At Tokoroa I was going to run the RS but chickened out as I was worried that it might fail in the moment.
This was a really tough decision as it was so much faster with the RS Ignition.
I think it is due to the amount of retard.
Also my combustion chamber is sharp edged and modern, the CR curve is more likely to suit an old school style to keep the squish velocity down. (Thanks Mike)

Anyway, it was OK at Tokoroa but still needs more range to get through a lap without clutch stabbing hard in at least 2 corners.


More soon...