Adultery's not so bad after all... [Archive]

ManDownUnder

17th June 2008, 10:55

ok - here's a fun topic (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/6/story.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10516222) that should last through the ages... Dr Mira Kirshenbaum has written a self-help book for married philanderers claims most adulterers are good, kind people.

It says affairs can help a marriage and that those who stray should never admit it because the truth can cause even more damage. "Cheating on your spouse isn't a moral act, but most men and women who have affairs are good people who made a mistake," says Mira Kirshenbaum, author of When Good People Have Affairs.

Thoughts? Moral high ground anyone?

James Deuce

17th June 2008, 11:07

Ahhhh, so that's how married people get sex.

I knew I'd been doing something wrong.

BOGAR

17th June 2008, 11:21

Sounds like a pole if ever i heard one.
:done:
I take the morel high ground but thats caus I'm older and wiser :lol::bleh::lol: (P/T BTW)

Disco Dan

17th June 2008, 11:24

Current opinion:

"Adulterers are neither kind nor good people, so what sort of sympathy are we supposed to give them?" asks Leila Collins, a psychologist who has been giving relationship counselling for 15 years.

"A good person doesn't betray their loved ones. A good person who is unsatisfied in their relationship ends it before starting a new one."

Generally accepted now as 'correct and normal' yes.

Now, take this man: Sigmund Freud

"Freud also believed that the libido developed in individuals by changing its object, a process codified by the concept of sublimation. He argued that humans are born "polymorphously perverse", meaning that any number of objects could be a source of pleasure. He further argued that, as humans develop, they become fixated on different and specific objects through their stages of development—first in the oral stage (exemplified by an infant's pleasure in nursing), then in the anal stage (exemplified by a toddler's pleasure in evacuating his or her bowels), then in the phallic stage. Freud argued that children then passed through a stage in which they fixated on the mother as a sexual object (known as the Oedipus Complex) but that the child eventually overcame and repressed this desire because of its taboo nature. (The lesser known Electra complex refers to such a fixation on the father.) The repressive or dormant latency stage of psychosexual development preceded the sexually mature genital stage of psychosexual development.
Freud's way of interpretation has been called phallocentric by many contemporary thinkers. This is because of, for Freud, the unconscious desires for the phallus (penis). Males are afraid of losing their masculinity, symbolized by the phallus, to another male. Females always desire to have a phallus - an unfulfillable desire. Thus boys resent their fathers (fear of castration) and girls desire theirs."

We now know 'better' and no longer use his work as true and correct, only as a bit of a history lesson in where we came from psychologically.

Dare I say it, but could a bit of perspective be needed?

imdying

17th June 2008, 11:28

What a crock! Adulterers know exactly what they're doing, it's no mistake at all. Saying that they're 'good people' or not is just another fucked concept from a retarded academic... how the heck anyone can be rated on something so subjective is anyones guess.

slowpoke

17th June 2008, 11:30

Good people do bad things...bad people do good things...if you think any situation as complex as adultery is cut and dried you ain't living in the real world.

merv

17th June 2008, 11:42

Ahhhh, so that's how married people get sex.

I knew I'd been doing something wrong.

I dunno Jim, where'd all those kids that hang around you come from?

James Deuce

17th June 2008, 11:53

I dunno Jim, where'd all those kids that hang around you come from?

3 times in 20 years cannot in any way be described as a successful sexual relationship.

merv

17th June 2008, 12:05

3 times in 20 years cannot in any way be described as a successful sexual relationship.

OK, well just keep practicing just in case.

Blackbird

17th June 2008, 12:14

ok -

Thoughts? Moral high ground anyone?

Forget the moral high ground Nigel, having a carving knife slipped between the ribs when I'm not looking, followed by my balls being cut off, then being taken for everything I own is sufficient disincentive to play away from home:yes:

enigma51

17th June 2008, 12:15

I wonder what my wife would say if i send this to her?

Any one have a spare room i can rent

ManDownUnder

17th June 2008, 12:15

Forget the moral high ground Nigel, having a carving knife slipped between the ribs when I'm not looking, followed by my balls being cut off, then being taken for everything I own is sufficient disincentive to play away from home:yes:

LOL fair call. May I also add my wife is the most naturally gifted shot I've ever met?

007XX

17th June 2008, 12:17

James Deuce

17th June 2008, 12:18

Forget the moral high ground Nigel, having a carving knife slipped between the ribs when I'm not looking, followed by my balls being cut off, then being taken for everything I own is sufficient disincentive to play away from home:yes:
It's interesting how they'd do that, but once the Honeymoon is over, they aren't in any way interested in putting out.

BOGAR

17th June 2008, 12:18

Sounds like a pole if ever i heard one.
:done:
I take the morel high ground but thats caus I'm older and wiser :lol::bleh::lol: (P/T BTW)

Well this got serious fast. I would like to point out that i still take the high ground it is just that i may be older but not wiser :blink:.
now backing away carefully from this thread.:whistle::bye:
and i agree with 007XX.

imdying

17th June 2008, 12:56

It's interesting how they'd do that, but once the Honeymoon is over, they aren't in any way interested in putting out.Took a job you ended up hating, married the wrong woman, brought a bike without fairings... is there anything in your life you haven't fucked up Jim? :laugh:

DarkLord

17th June 2008, 13:17

Everyone makes mistakes at times.

However, if I were to make a mistake like this I wouldn't be able to live with the guilt of it.

I'm not married of course but if I was, that would be the case.

jrandom

17th June 2008, 13:23

Dr Mira Kirshenbaum... claims most adulterers are good, kind people.

:laugh:

Dr Mira Kirshenbaum deserves to:

A. Be fucked up the arse without Vaseline by every man whose wife has ever spread her legs behind his back for some slimy desperate bastard, and

B. Have her tits burned off with an oxy-acetylene torch by every woman whose husband has left her crying and alone in the night while he spouts bullshit and sneaks out to bang some dumbfuck self-obsessed whore.

:niceone:

mouldy

17th June 2008, 13:24

I wonder what my wife would say if i send this to her?

Any one have a spare room i can rentMy wife thinks adulteries ok as long as its her doing it , if I done it I,d be singing castrato .

James Deuce

17th June 2008, 13:37

Took a job you ended up hating, married the wrong woman, brought a bike without fairings... is there anything in your life you haven't fucked up Jim? :laugh:

No. I haven't even been out to lunch yet.

imdying

17th June 2008, 13:48

A. Be fucked up the arse without Vaseline by every man whose wife has ever spread her legs behind his back for some slimy desperate bastard, andIf I hold her down whilst you do that, does that make me an adulterer? :confused:

jrandom

17th June 2008, 13:54

If I hold her down whilst you do that, does that make me an adulterer?

Not if you get your wife's permission first. Do you think she'd mind much?

:cool:

imdying

17th June 2008, 13:55

She'd probably want to help :rofl:

Storm

17th June 2008, 15:13

Max Headroom

17th June 2008, 15:19

:laugh:

Dr Mira Kirshenbaum deserves to:

A. Be fucked up the arse without Vaseline by every man whose wife has ever spread her legs behind his back for some slimy desperate bastard, and

B. Have her tits burned off with an oxy-acetylene torch by every woman whose husband has left her crying and alone in the night while he spouts bullshit and sneaks out to bang some dumbfuck self-obsessed whore.

:niceone:

Don't sugarcoat this, mate. Tell us how you really feel....

One of the things nobody tells us when we marry, is that we have a responsibility to continue to be interesting and attractive to each other long after the wedding ceremony is over. If a couple are attracted to each other sufficiently to want to spend the rest of their lives together, the attractiveness shouldn't end when the rings are exchanged. I'm not talking about superficial beauty or looking like fashion models, I'm talking about maintaining/developing interesting hobbies and pursuits and activities both together and individually.

I WANT my wife to like me, and I WANT her to be attracted to me. I WANT her to be happy, and I WANT the both of us to live a life that's as free of regrets as I can. How I talk to her, show her respect and conduct myself around her both publicly and privately will largely determine how successful I will be. Extra-marital affairs, whether disclosed or not, are like an extreme version of pornography - it's just like a cancer for relationships.

(BTW, we've been married 25 years)

my $0.02

BIHB@0610

17th June 2008, 15:26

Oh C'mooooonnn...

Subject A, female recounts in a breathy voice: "we were magically swept away in the heat of our passion and accidentally, without any control over our emotions, fell in bed together and our genitalias collided..."

Give me a break!

Life is not a porno version of Mills and Boons for cryin' out loud. Cheating means premeditation, full stop.
Any self righteous hypocrite who declares having cheated without having consciously made the choice at one point or another is a filthy liar.

You make the choice to flirt, you make the choice to kiss, and well...when things get South of the Bombays, there is nothing left to declare innocence, is there?

And as far as justifying the act of cheating? Same thing: you have a choice to end your current relationship, no matter how painful or difficult, before you get into another one. Not making that choice is a coward's way of being...

What she said! :yes::yes:

It is NEVER justifiable to cheat on a partner - I don't care how bad things get, or what the circumstances are. I am not going to tag that statement as "my humble opinion" - it's not humble and it is not opinion - it is FACT. If things are that bad, either try harder to fix them, or be courageous and end things honestly.

However, (and this is my opinion) - it is vaguely justifiable to pay for sex if you're terribly frustrated - I don't know how a lot of men in otherwise good relationships cope when their 'other half' won't put out - it must be absolutely soul destroying. But I think the other half should be told beforehand - they can then decide whether they want to do something about their libido - it's all about personal responsibility, really.

By the way, violence is never justified either - I would never cut, hit, or wound a partner for cheating - I would simply walk away. Karma would take care of the rest :devil2:

The Stranger

17th June 2008, 15:59

Thoughts?

Yes, why is it that threads on morality see the hypocrites out in full condemnation?
Do you find it eases your guilt?

Lets hear it from the hypocrites.

Please note: This is NOT specifically aimed at MDU.

Badjelly

17th June 2008, 16:08

Yes, why is it that threads on morality see the hypocrites out in full condemnation?

The hypocrites being the people who believe adultery is wrong?

jrandom

17th June 2008, 16:17

Lets hear it from the hypocrites.

OK, I'll start.

Given that I've been the most outspoken in this thread to date, and I know you know some of my personal history, et cetera, I imagine that I must be amongst the group you're thinking of, unless you've grown awfully forgetful in your old age.

:laugh:

Although, frankly, it's a bit rude of you to call me a hypocrite! If I'm misinterpreting you, I'll happily accept you stating that you were not doing so, of course.

Anyway, I've both cheated and been cheated on in the past, and the lessons I took from that are what drive my current opinions on the matter.

Big difference between that and hypocrisy.

Certainly, if I wasn't absolutely convinced that I'd rather cut off my own arm than engage in any such actions again, I'd be a hypocrite, but I don't think that learning from one's mistakes and changing one's stance constitutes hypocrisy.

Unfortunately for you, dude, knowing shit about people's personal lives often goes both ways...

... so, care to share some of your own insights here?

:corn:

007XX

17th June 2008, 16:48

By the way, violence is never justified either - I would never cut, hit, or wound a partner for cheating - I would simply walk away. Karma would take care of the rest :devil2:

Oh Pleeeaassse...just a little cut...not even a tiny one? Just on the Perineum, and maybe with a blunt knife...

BIHB@0610

17th June 2008, 17:06

Hey OO7XX ..... it's your lucky day ...... view the Karma Kozuka #1 Japanese Knives ..........

http://www.snodyknives.com/knives/K01194.jpg

The Stranger

17th June 2008, 17:08

... so, care to share some of your own insights here?

:corn:

Sure, a great insight I have to share with you is to not judge others.

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Badjelly

17th June 2008, 17:11

Sure, a great insight I have to share with you is to not judge others. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

So murder's OK? Sex with children? You don't think so? Hypocrite!

Mikkel

17th June 2008, 17:27

Ownership of another individual = slavery.

Coyote

17th June 2008, 18:17

Oh Pleeeaassse...just a little cut...not even a tiny one? Just on the Perineum, and maybe with a blunt knife...
I had to google that word. I don't like them adding photo's to the top of the webpage search anymore...

Biting would be fine too.

Coyote

17th June 2008, 18:20

Ownership of another individual = slavery.
Kinky.

I'm more of a toy

jrandom

17th June 2008, 18:25

Ownership of another individual = slavery.

Ownership? Incorrect concept.

Say, instead, that deceit and the breaking of promises = evil.

I hope you're not going to trot out your tired old confusion between adultery and consensual multi-partner kinkiness again.

-df-

17th June 2008, 18:31

Good people do bad things...bad people do good things...if you think any situation as complex as adultery is cut and dried you ain't living in the real world.

wise words...

MIXONE

17th June 2008, 18:34

Oh Pleeeaassse...just a little cut...not even a tiny one? Just on the Perineum, and maybe with a blunt knife...

This post proves 2 things.One you know more about the male body then I do and two the female is deadlier then the male.

doc

17th June 2008, 18:52

This post proves 2 things.One you know more about the male body then I do and two the female is deadlier then the male.

It's ok she is only haviin a go at you gut's not ya willie.

BIHB@0610

17th June 2008, 19:02

Kinky.

I'm more of a toy :love: :love: :love: 10 characters

CookMySock

17th June 2008, 19:13

I had to google that word.LOL

[....]consensual multi-partner kinkiness again.oo yeh

DB

The Stranger

17th June 2008, 19:19

So murder's OK? Sex with children? You don't think so? Hypocrite!

So reading and comprehension are not your strong points aye.

Mikkel

17th June 2008, 19:48

Ownership? Incorrect concept.

Say, instead, that deceit and the breaking of promises = evil.

I hope you're not going to trot out your tired old confusion between adultery and consensual multi-partner kinkiness again.

Nope I'm definitely not. I think I'll just stay in the background and watch you eloquently push your agenda by dumbing down the subject, again, again. :rolleyes:

1 Free Man

17th June 2008, 20:17

3 times in 20 years cannot in any way be described as a successful sexual relationship.
:rofl: sound to me as if you made a pig of yourself!!! LOL:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Coyote

17th June 2008, 20:21

:love: :love: :love: 10 characters
Flattered, but taken, and to start flirting (even jokingly) would be going against this thread wouldn't it? :p

1 Free Man

17th June 2008, 20:28

It's interesting how they'd do that, but once the Honeymoon is over, they aren't in any way interested in putting out.
That's what "I DO" means in the marriage vowes to a woman.
"I DO, NOT DO SEX oral, anal, or otherwise." they use their man trap to hook you and then once they have you that's the end of it.

Boob Johnson

17th June 2008, 20:33

One of the things nobody tells us when we marry, is that we have a responsibility to continue to be interesting and attractive to each other long after the wedding ceremony is over. If a couple are attracted to each other sufficiently to want to spend the rest of their lives together, the attractiveness shouldn't end when the rings are exchanged. I'm not talking about superficial beauty or looking like fashion models, I'm talking about maintaining/developing interesting hobbies and pursuits and activities both together and individually.

I WANT my wife to like me, and I WANT her to be attracted to me. I WANT her to be happy, and I WANT the both of us to live a life that's as free of regrets as I can. How I talk to her, show her respect and conduct myself around her both publicly and privately will largely determine how successful I will be. Extra-marital affairs, whether disclosed or not, are like an extreme version of pornography - it's just like a cancer for relationships.

(BTW, we've been married 25 years)

my $0.02
Spot on Max, well deserved bling sent :niceone:

I will happily take the moral high ground on this issue along with the now reformed Jrandom.

I am proud to say I have not even once come close to cheating on a girlfriend or fiance (never been married). Have been cheated on but never strayed myself. Never have & never will. Why? Because that is about as low as you can go IMHO, not judging anyone just my personal view point on it. Walked out on the (what I thought at the time) was the love of my life because of it & I wont faulter, its an absolute, not negociable.

Relationships are precious (at least to me they are) and are (meant) to be built upon a foundation, a rock if you will. One of the break downs of current society I believe is a complete lack of understanding of this. The rate of marriage splits certainly confirms this. People are so fast to jump in the sack these days, the microwave generation isn't limited to youngsters, it's a sign of the times, its just a complete & utter headinistic approach. Too many people want it all and want it NOW!!! Well there is a price to pay. As the saying goes, you can do what ever you want, as long as you are prepared to pay the price.

A solid relationship takes time, care, patience, understanding & communication. Society is far too headinistic I believe & the moment we wake up to this is the moment many pressing social & personal issues will dissappear.

And thus ends the rant from ya uncle Boob :laugh:

Edbear

17th June 2008, 21:04

Don't sugarcoat this, mate. Tell us how you really feel....

One of the things nobody tells us when we marry, is that we have a responsibility to continue to be interesting and attractive to each other long after the wedding ceremony is over. If a couple are attracted to each other sufficiently to want to spend the rest of their lives together, the attractiveness shouldn't end when the rings are exchanged. I'm not talking about superficial beauty or looking like fashion models, I'm talking about maintaining/developing interesting hobbies and pursuits and activities both together and individually.

I WANT my wife to like me, and I WANT her to be attracted to me. I WANT her to be happy, and I WANT the both of us to live a life that's as free of regrets as I can. How I talk to her, show her respect and conduct myself around her both publicly and privately will largely determine how successful I will be. Extra-marital affairs, whether disclosed or not, are like an extreme version of pornography - it's just like a cancer for relationships.

(BTW, we've been married 25 years)
my $0.02

Give it time, mate, you'll get there..:msn-wink:

(We've only been married 30...)

BIHB@0610

17th June 2008, 21:16

Flattered, but taken, and to start flirting (even jokingly) would be going against this thread wouldn't it? :p

Absolutely! Tis ok Coyote - unrequited love is kinda fun .... in a masochistic way ......

merv

17th June 2008, 22:07

As an aside I went to Sex and The City with Mrs merv a week ago and the very thing you are talking about here was portrayed in the characters of Miranda and Steve. Well she never put out for 6 months - crikey - so he strayed as you'd expect following his basic instinct.

In the end she learnt what she needed to do and got into it again - yippee!!

Anyway, I enjoyed the movie so would recommend it for a laugh.

Skunk

17th June 2008, 22:13

Adultery is not right. This 'researcher' is looking for guilt abatement.

jrandom

18th June 2008, 06:24

Nope I'm definitely not. I think I'll just stay in the background...

Attempt at counter-putdown duly ignored, acknowledgement of having nothing to say duly accepted.

:msn-wink:

CookMySock

18th June 2008, 07:46

gawd, someone start a "fucking around WITH your partners' permission, and preferably WITH your partner" thread so we don't have to endure this bickering... :oi-grr:

Not that people are gunna speak up there prolly :whistle: :whistle:

DB

007XX

18th June 2008, 09:03

Hey OO7XX ..... it's your lucky day ...... view the Karma Kozuka #1 Japanese Knives ..........

Oh Yummmmm...now, that is sexy!

I had to google that word. I don't like them adding photo's to the top of the webpage search anymore...

I am always awazed at how many males don't know the fundamentals of their own anatomie. Especially since that particular area, stroked and fondled at the right time and in the right fashion is an extremely pleasurable skill to perform...or so I am told of course. Get your lady to try it out sometimes (if she doesn't already), much fun to be had.

This post proves 2 things.One you know more about the male body then I do and two the female is deadlier then the male.

I love your concise statement of fact.

It's ok she is only haviin a go at you gut's not ya willie.

Eeerrr...not so I am afraid. Maybe I should have been more in depth with my definition and stipulated that I was referring to the perineum skin...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perineum

gawd, someone start a "fucking around WITH your partners' permission, and preferably WITH your partner" thread so we don't have to endure this bickering... :oi-grr:

Not that people are gunna speak up there prolly :whistle: :whistle:
DB

Although this may come back to bite me on the arse, I feel it is on topic in this case...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=74617&highlight=threesomes

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=61928&highlight=threesomes

ManDownUnder

18th June 2008, 09:09

Yes, why is it that threads on morality see the hypocrites out in full condemnation?
Do you find it eases your guilt?

Lets hear it from the hypocrites.

Please note: This is NOT specifically aimed at MDU.

No worries mate. I personally find the concept of morality facinating, and the restrictive ability of most people to consider the fact it might be fluid...

...and that's only the first step toward actually getting our heads around it, next steps being walking in the shoes of others, and being able to see how two totally contrary viewpoints are both entirely valid even if diametrically opposing.

I saw this in the paper, figured it would draw a bit of fire and watch with genuine interest to see where different people are on the continuum.

Clockwork

18th June 2008, 09:35

OK, I'll start.

Given that I've been the most outspoken in this thread to date, and I know you know some of my personal history, et cetera, I imagine that I must be amongst the group you're thinking of, unless you've grown awfully forgetful in your old age.

:laugh:

Although, frankly, it's a bit rude of you to call me a hypocrite! If I'm misinterpreting you, I'll happily accept you stating that you were not doing so, of course.

Anyway, I've both cheated and been cheated on in the past, and the lessons I took from that are what drive my current opinions on the matter.

Big difference between that and hypocrisy.

Certainly, if I wasn't absolutely convinced that I'd rather cut off my own arm than engage in any such actions again, I'd be a hypocrite, but I don't think that learning from one's mistakes and changing one's stance constitutes hypocrisy.

Unfortunately for you, dude, knowing shit about people's personal lives often goes both ways...

... so, care to share some of your own insights here?

:corn:

While I wouldn't go throwing such labels at pepole I don't know, surely condeming others for making the same "mistakes" you have made yourself is hypocritical, or are you only condeming those that don't then feel as guilty about it as you now do?

Storm

18th June 2008, 10:32

The Stranger

18th June 2008, 11:54

CookMySock

18th June 2008, 12:43

Edbear

18th June 2008, 13:33

Isn't that at odds with the "till death do us part" bit?
That was one of those real simple commitments you refer to too you know.

Why make such a commitment when you are so ready to walk away from it ? What was the whole point of the commitment to begin with ? It seems there were unstated conditions ?

Why do you think you can get what you want or you will impose some violent consequence ? (your threatened leaving - internalised violence - google)

The reality is more like, if you feel unhappy you should examine why and quit blaming and projecting it onto others.

Why the fuck and I typing this shit ?DB

There's a period called, "After the Honeymoon Is Over". One thinks, "What happened to the girl/guy I married?"

Things are different, work, bills, dealing with in-laws/family, getting used to living together, learning to communicate, (the lifeblood of a relationship). Coping with one's own anxieties/fears/abilities, etc. My experience, and KB is a prime example, shows that very often, what we hear people say is different from what they meant. There was a post some time ago which went something like this... "If something I said could be taken two ways, and one of those ways upset you, I meant the other way, okay?" Our own experiences, and insecurities, our suspicions, influence the way we "hear" what others say to us. Too often we read into something what is not actually there. We take advice and constructive criticsm as being a put-down, or as saying we are bad, stupid or inferior, when it may have been meant in love. At times the words may not come out right due to nervousness or a simple lack of education in English...

In a marriage, this can poison the atmosphere leading to a "tit for tat" situation, where the relationship becomes a reactionary one, each "reacting" to the other without trying to understand the other and what is behind the words. One loses sight of and forgets the qualities that attracted one to the other in the beginning. One forgets to love the other.

We all come with baggage, very few of us had an ideal upbringing and life, and it takes a long time to face and address those issues that we bring to the marriage.

Kittyhawk

18th June 2008, 13:48

ALL relationships have an expiary date.

Most cannot cope with guilt and the truth, like that new programe on tv 2 "moment of truth" its interesting to see how far some will go as money speaks volumes.

The guilt gets the better, and then the truth spills out like a time bomb with the effects affecting people in different ways.

But as for this, there are other ways to spice up things in a relationship. If there are two yesses great do it, if there is a yes and no dont. What is the point in being in a marriage when you sign your life away to someone else to own/control you? If its a relationship, then no one owns anyone so you technicially are a free agent, but marriage its different.

007XX

18th June 2008, 14:07

ALL relationships have an expiary date.

.

How can you be so categorical about this?

Clockwork

18th June 2008, 14:12

When you get married or make a commitment, its a real simple thing.
If (assuming you're not a low life scumbag without the least shred of common decency), when you're unhappy, you tell the other person whats happening, why you're unhappy, and what you'd like to change.
If they are willing to come to the party, fine and dandy.
If not, shake their hand, thank them for the good times, and leave.

Dont just let them believe alls well when you're out cheating it up

Wow, if only my life was so black and white, I see no other way but to get personal.

I love my wife dearly, she is without doubt my soul mate and I will happily grow old wth her. But, in common with others it would seem, the physical side of our relationship has all but come to a standstill. It may well be because I'm crap at it (not enough practice is my excuse) but it has been this way for several years now and I've tried everything I can think of to kick
start things. My wife acknowledges there is a problem however working with me to resolve it doesn't seem to be too high on her list of priorities. While she is willing to engage in the act her heart (pun not intended) really isn't in it and I find no pleasure to be had from such a one sided act, I'd sooner w*nk!

The trouble is I'm not ready to let it wither up and drop off yet and auto-erotica is starting to become a poor substitue. I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and sex just shouldn't be that important!

I've not strayed yet and God know's that I would never go on the hunt but in the quiet moments such thoughts do cross my mind. I'm starting to see now why some wealthy men have Mistresses and King's would have concubines.

Mikkel

18th June 2008, 14:14

How can you be so categorical about this?

Not to be dark about it - but death is the only thing which is certain in this existence. Unless you believe in an afterlife I guess it would be quite easy to be categorical about it.

Besides there seems to be plenty of other categorical statements made in this thread... ;)

Skyryder

18th June 2008, 14:18

My only comments is that the Moral High Ground is a dangerouse place to be; it has a bad habit of sliding from underneath you...............usually at the most in-oppertune time.

Skyryder

imdying

18th June 2008, 14:22

ALL relationships have an expiary date.What a crock of shite.

007XX

18th June 2008, 14:31

Not to be dark about it - but death is the only thing which is certain in this existence. Unless you believe in an afterlife I guess it would be quite easy to be categorical about it.

Besides there seems to be plenty of other categorical statements made in this thread... ;)

Hmmm...cute!

But I was in this instance challenging Kitty based on the fact I know her to have a dark tendency to seeing a lot of things in the negative light.

Keeping the esoteric debate out of the equation, anyone who has been privileged enough to meet elderlie couples after many, many years of marriage (and yes, I have met more than one), will know that not ALL relationships / marriages have an expiry date.

That cynical viewpoint is not an acceptable argument in my neck of the woods, sorry Kitty. You still have a lifetime ahead of you to be proven wrong.

Edbear

18th June 2008, 14:42

Wow, if only my life was so black and white, I see no other way but to get personal.

I love my wife dearly, she is without doubt my soul mate and I will happily grow old wth her. But, in common with others it would seem, the physical side of our relationship has all but come to a standstill. It may well be because I'm crap at it (not enough practice is my excuse) but it has been this way for several years now and I've tried everything I can think of to kick
start things. My wife acknowledges there is a problem however working with me to resolve it doesn't seem to be too high on her list of priorities. While she is willing to engage in the act her heart (pun not intended) really isn't in it and I find no pleasure to be had from such a one sided act, I'd sooner w*nk!

The trouble is I'm not ready to let it wither up and drop off yet and auto-erotica is starting to become a poor substitue. I'm not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water and sex just shouldn't be that important!

I've not strayed yet and God know's that I would never go on the hunt but in the quiet moments such thoughts do cross my mind. I'm starting to see now why some wealthy men have Mistresses and King's would have concubines.

Appreciate your candor, here, Clockwork. At times we went through similar periods. I found that sex isn't the problem, truth be told we're all probably "crap" at it, but that's part of the fun.

Disinterest in sex is rather a symptom of a problem. Try studying your wife, listening very carefully to what she says, and pick up clues as to what's on her mind. Women are more complicated than men, and while I, too, get a kick out of giving my wife pleasure, and don't enjoy it if she's not, she's very affectionate when she's feeling happy and unstressed.

Women are the whole package, and if you are attentive to her concerns, spend time with her, just hanging out and talking about things, let her know you're interested and care about her life, being helpful, kind and considerate, - and paitent - you may find she will respond.

Of course I don't know your personal situation, so can only speak generally. I may be completely wrong.

Big Dave

18th June 2008, 14:43

Keeping the esoteric debate out of the equation, anyone who has been privileged enough to meet elderlie couples after many, many years of marriage (and yes, I have met more than one), will know that not ALL relationships / marriages have an expiry date.

.

As Long As Your Eyes Are Blue

Wilt thou love me, sweet, when my hair is grey
And my cheeks shall have lost their hue?
When the charms of youth shall have passed away,
Will your love as of old prove true?

For the looks may change, and the heart may range,
And the love be no longer fond;
Wilt thou love with truth in the years of youth
And away to the years beyond?

Oh, I love you, sweet, for your locks of brown
And the blush on your cheek that lies --
But I love you most for the kindly heart
That I see in your sweet blue eyes.

For the eyes are signs of the soul within,
Of the heart that is leal and true,
And mine own sweetheart, I shall love you still,
Just as long as your eyes are blue.

For the locks may bleach, and the cheeks of peach
May be reft of their golden hue;
But mine own sweetheart, I shall love you still,
Just as long as your eyes are blue.

A B Patterson.
1891.

imdying

18th June 2008, 14:44

anyone who has been privileged enough to meet elderlie couples after many, many years of marriage (and yes, I have met more than one), will know that not ALL relationships / marriages have an expiry date.What the lady with the tidy avatar said :banana:

/edit: Dave, The Beatles said it good too :blip:

Edbear

18th June 2008, 14:47

As Long As Your Eyes Are Blue

Wilt thou love me, sweet, when my hair is grey
And my cheeks shall have lost their hue?
When the charms of youth shall have passed away,
Will your love as of old prove true?

For the looks may change, and the heart may range,
And the love be no longer fond;
Wilt thou love with truth in the years of youth
And away to the years beyond?

Oh, I love you, sweet, for your locks of brown
And the blush on your cheek that lies --
But I love you most for the kindly heart
That I see in your sweet blue eyes.

For the eyes are signs of the soul within,
Of the heart that is leal and true,
And mine own sweetheart, I shall love you still,
Just as long as your eyes are blue.

For the locks may bleach, and the cheeks of peach
May be reft of their golden hue;
But mine own sweetheart, I shall love you still,
Just as long as your eyes are blue.

A B Patterson.
1891.

So coloured contacts are out, then..?

007XX

18th June 2008, 15:02

As Long As Your Eyes Are Blue

Thank you Dave, that is most beautiful. Funnily enough, I was looking for a poem to read to my husband for our 10th anniversary, which you just so very conveniently provided me with.

007XX

18th June 2008, 15:03

So coloured contacts are out, then..?

General shelf life of coloured lenses...about a month. So yeah, they're out!

Edbear

18th June 2008, 15:04

Thank you Dave, that is most beautiful. Funnily enough, I was looking for a poem to read to my husband for our 10th anniversary, which you just so very conveniently provided me with.

Just check his eyes are blue, first.... Might save a misunderstanding...:laugh:

007XX

18th June 2008, 15:16

Just check his eyes are blue, first.... Might save a misunderstanding...:laugh:

Oh dear, really? Now, that is most peculiar...I cannot for the life of me recall the colour of his eyes. Must be because everytime he gets close enough, he kisses me and I have to close my eyes in sheer rapture...

Continuing to love is a choice, at times a difficult one to make, but everyone faces that choice at one point or another in their relationship, and that is what determines whether the relationship sinks or not. It is not about being married. And that is what no one teaches you about love: it's about hard work at times, and choices.

But eh, what do I know? I'm just stumbling my way through, just like anybody else...

Mikkel

18th June 2008, 15:49

As Long As Your Eyes Are Blue

The not so romatic version...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NOZH0y7VxE

Keeping the esoteric debate out of the equation, anyone who has been privileged enough to meet elderlie couples after many, many years of marriage (and yes, I have met more than one), will know that not ALL relationships / marriages have an expiry date.

Oh by all means, I have seen my share of such couples. My only point was that it is very easy to argue that all good things must come to an end based on how you understand existence. That was all. I'm not that glum - just a bitty snotty is all...

What the lady with the tidy avatar said :banana:

Indeed! I actually think it may be the best avatar to date :yes:

MisterD

18th June 2008, 15:57

Ownership of another individual = slavery.

Yeah, but marriage is supposed to be more of a cross-leasing kind of deal.

007XX

18th June 2008, 15:58

... just a bitty snotty is all...

I knew that...

Indeed! I actually think it may be the best avatar to date :yes:

I am rather taken with this one actually. I may keep it for a little longer than usual.

Mikkel

18th June 2008, 16:02

I am rather taken with this one actually. I may keep it for a little longer than usual.

...but an expiry date none the less? <_<

CookMySock

18th June 2008, 16:20

We all come with baggage, very few of us had an ideal upbringing and life, and it takes a long time to face and address those issues that we bring to the marriage.Well Edbear, I didn't know what to trim off that quote. Quite an accurate and heartfelt sum-up.

After we gather all the skills to actually run a relationship, and learn to listen and talk about how we feel, and put down out preconcieved ideas, we arrive at a new place with our mate of 20 years. Things then are strangely quiet and calm, akin to after a severe storm. It's foolish to cast off the relationship at this point. Its the beginning of a new clearness and safety.

DB

Her_C4

18th June 2008, 16:24

Kinky.

I'm more of a toy

Bah - had a couple of those toy boys - damned expensive to maintain, but a good stop gap :msn-wink::devil2:

CookMySock

18th June 2008, 16:29

it has been this way for several years now [heartfelt post trimmed..]I'm relieved to hear you talk about sticking with it. Quite the contrast with other posts in the thread. I am tempted to advise, but I will just say to stay with her, and find a solution - I see that you will anyway.. It might take a few years, but that is not long.

More power to you, Clockwork. Heartfelt big hug from me, mate. You're going to be fine. :first:

Steve

Coyote

18th June 2008, 16:32

I am always awazed at how many males don't know the fundamentals of their own anatomie. Especially since that particular area, stroked and fondled at the right time and in the right fashion is an extremely pleasurable skill to perform...or so I am told of course. Get your lady to try it out sometimes (if she doesn't already), much fun to be had.
Sex ed isn't exactly learning about how to excite yourself, is more about "SEX WILL GET YOU KILLED!!!". Plus I'm a relative new comer (pun intended) to the whole activity and haven't quite got the years of experience and knowledge.

She said she'd be willing to try almost anything with me...

Coyote

18th June 2008, 16:34

Absolutely! Tis ok Coyote - unrequited love is kinda fun .... in a masochistic way ......
Meh, been there, done that. Don't want to keep intentions quiet from now on.

'cept a few...

CookMySock

18th June 2008, 16:41

What is the point in being in a marriage when you sign your life away to someone else to own/control you? If its a relationship, then no one owns anyone so you technicially are a free agent, but marriage its different.What ? No one owns or controls anyone.

The whole basis of violence is ;

1. I feel strongly

2. its your fault

3. you did/didn't do what you should(n't)

4. now I feel angry

5. you will make remedial action

6. you refuse to make remedial action

7. I will impose some artificial consequence upon you to achieve 5.

The whole problem is at 3 and 4. It's about misunderstandings from lack of listening skills (and other things) and then acting out what we believe.

The bottom line is, your rights to act FINISH AFTER STEP 4. Tough shit. Find another way. Its the law.

DB

Coyote

18th June 2008, 16:43

What a crock of shite.
What about death? Think that can end a relationship pretty well.

Unless you believe in some form of afterlife of course

alanzs

18th June 2008, 16:44

I always figured what goes around comes around... The wheel keeps on spinning...

007XX

18th June 2008, 16:46

...but an expiry date none the less? <_<

I am unwavering and constant in what matters...avatars don't.

007XX

18th June 2008, 16:50

Sex ed isn't exactly learning about how to excite yourself, is more about "SEX WILL GET YOU KILLED!!!". Plus I'm a relative new comer (pun intended) to the whole activity and haven't quite got the years of experience and knowledge.

She said she'd be willing to try almost anything with me...

stick around young grasshopper...and be patient, these things take time!

Coyote

18th June 2008, 16:59

Bah - had a couple of those - damned expensive to maintain, but a good stop gap :msn-wink::devil2:
I don't really cost my girlfriend that much... that doesn't make me 'cheap' does it?

stick around young grasshopper...and be patient, these things take time!
Indeed. I've got a head start over most people...

Edbear

18th June 2008, 17:04

Well Edbear, I didn't know what to trim off that quote. Quite an accurate and heartfelt sum-up.

After we gather all the skills to actually run a relationship, and learn to listen and talk about how we feel, and put down out preconcieved ideas, we arrive at a new place with our mate of 20 years. Things then are strangely quiet and calm, akin to after a severe storm. It's foolish to cast off the relationship at this point. Its the beginning of a new clearness and safety.

DB

Nailed it! As they say, "Good things take time..."

Kittyhawk

18th June 2008, 17:18

2 humans start a relationship. When one passes away that physicial side of the relationship is over or correct me if i am wrong or have we found a cure to live forever???

There are different stages of compatability in life for relationships. But everyone will experiences rough patches somewhere along the way. Some will make another go of the relationship others will end it and not look back.

Example I met a guy he has a daughter and is divorced. I have no intentions wanting kids of my own but am prepared to accept his and spend time with her by teaching piano as we are friends.

Hes mid 30's Im mid 20s. Im not speaking about the age gap, but he is on a different stage of life compared to me. I dont know what its like to have children of my own, never been married, hes done both and there is where the differences lie.

Hypothetical situation...
What if my biologicial clock kicks in over 10 years time and Im in a relationship...and I'm the one wanting marriage start a family and experience that particular stage of life? Yet at the time we agreed to being a couple we were more than compatable. Hes already been there done that and learnt things I havent including emotional dealings with having a child involved in a previous relationship. Eventually things can not be worked out, Id be looking elsewhere to be with someone who would want to experience that stage of life with me get married and have a family as the biologicial clock would be ticking.

Conclusion - communication trust and compromise to some level.

My parents prime example mum had an affair, they worked through that then dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer. For two years he fought it cured it and is a different man today. I asked him what kept him going as he was laying there in the bed waiting for death, he said it was his love for mum that kept him fighting. (married 27 years now)

I think after what she did they should have parted, but they agreed to give it another go. I respect them both as people but am allowed to feel how I feel. And as for my views on relationships Im allowed to have my own views just like anyone else does.

Everyone experiences love at some stage of life weather you persue it or not is another matter.

Her_C4

18th June 2008, 17:18

I don't really cost my girlfriend that much... that doesn't make me 'cheap' does it?...

Naaaahh - cost efficient one might say .....;)

imdying

18th June 2008, 18:26

What about death? Think that can end a relationship pretty well.Only the phsyical manifestation.

Mikkel

18th June 2008, 21:05

I am unwavering and constant in what matters...avatars don't.

I disagree, your avatars matters to me :yes: And thank you btw :D

Only the phsyical manifestation.

That would have to be considered a rather subjective truth wouldn't you agree?

007XX

19th June 2008, 08:47

I
Indeed. I've got a head start over most people...

I need to share the love around before giving it to you again...but that definitely was a good answer!

Conclusion - communication trust and compromise to some level.
.

Banged it on the head, right there...

jrandom

19th June 2008, 09:48

... surely condeming others for making the same "mistakes" you have made yourself is hypocritical...

I'm neither God nor a judge; I can't condemn anybody. All I can do is have a personal opinion of their merit, based on their actions and stated opinions.

It feels far more correct to say what I do after learning from personal experience than it would to write weasel words and imply that everything is relative. Therefore, I say it.

I'd also like to point out that we're not really talking about sex, here. That's incidental. The issue that lies behind the subject of adultery is honesty and integrity; the keeping of promises and the telling of truth.

Sex is wonderful; deceit is loathsome. An inability to acknowledge both of those truths characterises the thinking of many an adulterer; I give you The Stranger as Exhibit A in this regard.

those that don't then feel as guilty about it as you now do?

Guilt? I think what we call 'guilt' is the knowledge that one is on the wrong path, combined with the lack of strength to leave it.

The past is water under the bridge. Once the correct lessons have been learned from it, obsessing about it benefits nobody.

Max Headroom

19th June 2008, 10:48

Guilt? I think what we call 'guilt' is the knowledge that one is on the wrong path, combined with the lack of strength to leave it.

The past is water under the bridge. Once the correct lessons have been learned from it, obsessing about it benefits nobody.

Sir, I agree that obsessing about the past is of no benefit to anyone. Unfortunately few of us have the skills and abilities to self-analyse and "move on". Us guys especially are weak when it comes to expressing our emotions and dealing appropriately with our feelings.

In addition to that, some of the issues and life experiences some of us have endured are simply bigger than us and at times threaten to overwhelm us. At these moments we can often benefit from a degree of expert external intervention to help us navigate through the quagmire of colliding emotions we may be experiencing. It's OK to feel emotionally "stuck"!

Every relationship is unique to some degree - if we accept that each of us is unique as individuals then two such individuals in turn form a unique union with its own code of conduct, priorities and boundaries. Yet every relationship is bound by an overriding group of principles that are common to all successful long-term relationships regardless of who the participants are, and those principles involve trust, respect, tolerance, compassion, patience, forgiveness, and generally wanting the best for the other person. Unfortunately the natural tendency of relationships over a long period of time is isolation, often due to unresolved hurts and misunderstandings.

This is why adultery is a big problem for a relationship. It erodes trust and respect that can take years to restore. It occurs when a person puts their desires and needs ahead of their integrity, prior commitments and obligations, and involves a large degree of selfishness. The relationships that survive adultery are a greater testament to the forgiveness of the "wronged" spouse than the apology of the adulterer.

I think that there is a common assumption these days that we "fall in love" with someone, often at first sight, and after a period of time those feelings of euphoria we may have once had aren't there now so we can't be in love with that person any more and it's time to "move on". Here's the kicker: Love isn't an emotion - it's an act of will. We CHOOSE to love someone. Check most wedding vows and they will say "I will love and honour *** until death parts us" or words to that effect. There are times we may not LIKE our spouse, but Love and Hate are not opposites. The opposite of Love is APATHY.

Clockwork

19th June 2008, 13:15

jrandom

19th June 2008, 13:22

Sorry, it seemed pretty judgmental to me

You need to learn to interpret hyperbole correctly.

Y'know what's a bit odd? If I posted a similar flight of rhetoric in response to news of someone advocating motorcycle theft, I very much doubt that I would be castigated for being judgmental.

'Over the top', maybe, but not 'judgmental'.

Because, you see, people around these 'ere parts agree that motorcycle theft is wrong.

It would appear, though, that you (and a few others) see adultery as less obviously 'wrong' than motorcycle theft.

While we've had a number of prissy statements along the lines of 'judge not, lest ye be judged', this thread has seen absolutely no justification for adultery being, in and of itself, less of an evil than motorcycle theft.

Is adultery occasionally understandable? Of course it is. So is motorcycle theft.

But they're still both wrong.

McJim

19th June 2008, 13:22

Give me a break!

Life is not a porno version of Mills and Boons for cryin' out loud. Cheating means premeditation, full stop.
Any self righteous hypocrite who declares having cheated without having consciously made the choice at one point or another is a filthy liar.
..

WTF?!?!?But you're French! You fellas virtually invented the Mistress/Lover/Affair as being something "Tout le monde" does! :rofl:

007XX

19th June 2008, 13:30

WTF?!?!?But you're French! You fellas virtually invented the Mistress/Lover/Affair as being something "Tout le monde" does! :rofl:

hahaha...the fact we gave it a name that became popular does not mean we invented it.

I bet you the Italians had it going hot and sweaty way before we did.

Clockwork

19th June 2008, 13:33

...
While we've had a number of prissy statements along the lines of 'judge not, lest ye be judged', this thread has seen absolutely no justification for adultery being, in and of itself, less of an evil than motorcycle theft.

I disagree.

jrandom

19th June 2008, 13:37

I disagree.

Were you hoping to persuade anyone toward your point of view with that statement, or were you just looking to burn a little bandwidth?

The Stranger

19th June 2008, 14:08

Sex is wonderful; deceit is loathsome. An inability to acknowledge both of those truths characterises the thinking of many an adulterer; I give you The Stranger as Exhibit A in this regard.

Yep, I'd say my original post cut pretty damn close to the bone.
It's not often you get so rattled that you loose your eloquence, venture into the unknown and sink to cheap shots.
That guilt must be eating you up real bad.

Take a few deep breaths.

Big Dave

19th June 2008, 14:15

And keep your dick in your pants.

Clockwork

19th June 2008, 14:17

Were you hoping to persuade anyone toward your point of view with that statement, or were you just looking to burn a little bandwidth?

I understand where you are comming from, I disagree with the quoted statement, I do not believe that there is anythng more I can say that will change your POV.

Sorry.... it was just the 5 minute argument you wanted wasn't it?

jrandom

19th June 2008, 14:35

Yep, I'd say my original post cut pretty damn close to the bone.

If you define 'cutting close to the bone' as 'causing me to wonder why you'd accuse me of hypocrisy', then, for sure!

I've never subscribed to the "it's only the internet..." nonsense. If someone calls me a hypocrite, they can either prove it, retract it, or be very glad that I'm a smart man with no interest in winding up in court for assault.

Because, frankly, that shit deserves a broken nose by way of return. Call me a hypocrite, would you?

You're welcome to back that up to my face.

It's not often...

Yes, yes, you offended me. Now, assuming that you've finished congratulating yourself over your ability to be unpleasant to people for no apparent reason, can we get back to noticing that you didn't deny what I pointed out about you?

:laugh:

We're both behaved like scumbags at various points in our lives, no question about that.

The difference is that I've renounced such behaviour, while you equivocate about the possibility of moral justification for it and, one suspects, bide your time against future opportunities to repeat the performance.

To be honest, I don't think either of us are hypocrites, but I do think that your failure to renounce adultery makes you a rather distasteful individual. Not that I'd ever rub that in your face without provocation.

It's disappointing to see you starting a fight, Noel, but don't go thinking that you'll escape the consequences of your words by being snide and evasive.

:nono:

nodrog

19th June 2008, 14:53

adultery is bad, it causes angry debate and name calling on a motorcycle forum.

i wonder if i can go here www.kiwiadulterer.co.nz and start a thread about waving?

The Stranger

19th June 2008, 14:54

If you define 'cutting close to the bone' as 'causing me to wonder why you'd accuse me of hypocrisy', then, for sure!

I've never subscribed to the "it's only the internet..." nonsense. If someone calls me a hypocrite, they can either prove it, retract it, or be very glad that I'm a smart man with no interest in winding up in court for assault.

Because, frankly, that shit deserves a broken nose by way of return. Call me a hypocrite, would you?

You're welcome to back that up to my face.

Yes, yes, you offended me. Now, assuming that you've finished congratulating yourself over your ability to be unpleasant to people for no apparent reason, can we get back to noticing that you didn't deny what I pointed out about you?

:laugh:

We're both behaved like scumbags at various points in our lives, no question about that.

The difference is that I've renounced such behaviour, while you equivocate about the possibility of moral justification for it and, one suspects, bide your time against future opportunities to repeat the performance.

To be honest, I don't think either of us are hypocrites, but I do think that your failure to renounce adultery makes you a rather distasteful individual. Not that I'd ever rub that in your face without provocation.

It's disappointing to see you starting a fight, Noel, but don't go thinking that you'll escape the consequences of your words by being snide and evasive.

:nono:

Man, what are you smoking?

My initial post was a general comment on moral type threads.
You yourself acknowledged your hypocracy (whilst being careful not to call it that) of your own volition.
I shook the tree, you fell out. Don't blame me.

I have no problem renouncing adultery, quite simple it is not right, no need to get worked up over that. No need for a song and dance, no need to turn it into a chant.

That however was not the premise of this thread. Sure threads change and evolve, however, my initial post and my post on judging people is adressing the premise of this thread.

jrandom

19th June 2008, 15:04

Man, what are you smoking?

Good shit. I suspect you'd benefit from joining me occasionally; I find that it makes me more empathic.

My initial post was a general comment on moral type threads.
You yourself acknowledged your hypocracy (whilst being careful not to call it that) of your own volition.
I shook the tree, you fell out. Don't blame me.

You posted that the thread had 'brought out the hypocrites'.

007XX and I were the only people in it at that point who had been noticeably outspoken against adultery.

You may have hoped to annoy us without having to subsequently stand behind your words, but your intention was clear, and I won't let you get away with such cowardice in argument.

I called you on my supposition that you'd been accusing me of hypocrisy, and you didn't deny that in response. I've been very clear in my refutation of that. If you consider my refutation invalid, you'd better show why.

Still, I'm almost satisfied by your back-pedalling, here. Keep it up, and you'll be in no danger of needing to borrow Shaun's false teeth.

:msn-wink:

I have no problem renouncing adultery, quite simple it is not right...

Good chap. That's what I needed to hear.

It helps your earlier mealy-mouthed 'judge not...' approach immensely; I'd advise you to lead with such a clarification in future.

ManDownUnder

19th June 2008, 15:06

I have no problem renouncing adultery, quite simple it is not right, no need to get worked up over that.

In an attempt to drag this all out knock down punch up back on topic...

"Quite it's not right"... what - ever? Aren't there extreme circumstances where an exception could be made? Let's say he and she have always enjoyed a robust physical relationship and in mid life he develops Alzheimers.

Could she put him into full time care and establish a sexual relationship beyond her betrothed, should she divorce him (arguably an equally low thing to do), or does she have to suffer sexual hardship, through no fault of her own for an unclear period of years, possibly decades?

Again - it's that fluid contiuum of ethics we're talking about here. I don't see this as a simple right or wrong. Far from it - I'm sure there will be situations out there that make our heads spin.

That was my original intention starting the thread. Examining those peripheral situations - the exception handling if you will....

007XX

19th June 2008, 15:15

:corn: :corn:

jrandom

19th June 2008, 15:17

... it's that fluid contiuum of ethics we're talking about here.

Personally, I see it as more of a bell curve, with boundary conditions like you just described at the extreme edges.

In much the same way as I wouldn't be quick to condemn a man who stole a motorcycle and sold it so that his children didn't starve to death (and there are places in the world where I suspect that such things happen with monotonous regularity), I wouldn't be quick to condemn someone who acted discreetly and flexibly to sort their own needs out while caring for an aged life partner with Alzheimers or any other serious disability.

Theoretical boundary conditions, however, are just that - they do not have any bearing on the vast majority of real-world situations.

And the fact that they do exist as grey zones does not make them good. Nobody wants to have to steal a motorcycle to feed starving children; nobody wants to have to sneak around to avoid sexual frustration while looking after a senile husband.

Motivation is probably the single most important element in determining whether an action takes place in those ethical boundary conditions.

ManDownUnder

19th June 2008, 15:24

Motivation is probably the single most important element in determining whether an action takes place in those ethical boundary conditions.

Elegant and the whole post's a thoroughly good read sir. I'm seriously impressed with that.

Mikkel

19th June 2008, 15:25

We're both behaved like scumbags at various points in our lives, no question about that.

The difference is that I've renounced such behaviour, while you equivocate about the possibility of moral justification for it and, one suspects, bide your time against future opportunities to repeat the performance.

To be honest, I don't think either of us are hypocrites, but I do think that your failure to renounce adultery makes you a rather distasteful individual. Not that I'd ever rub that in your face without provocation.

This, also, seems slightly judgmental to me TBH.

"Quite it's not right"... what - ever? Aren't there extreme circumstances where an exception could be made? Let's say he and she have always enjoyed a robust physical relationship and in mid life he develops Alzheimers.

Could she put him into full time care and establish a sexual relationship beyond her betrothed, should she divorce him (arguably an equally low thing to do), or does she have to suffer sexual hardship, through no fault of her own for an unclear period of years, possibly decades?

Again - it's that fluid contiuum of ethics we're talking about here. I don't see this as a simple right or wrong. Far from it - I'm sure there will be situations out there that make our heads spin.

That was my original intention starting the thread. Examining those peripheral situations - the exception handling if you will....

Sorry MDU - I think you just failed the test here. You are now a 'distasteful individual' to the Church of jrandom, and will most likely not be granted access to the afterlife. Maybe, if you pay some money and say you are very sorry and start actively renouncing despicable behaviour (the list so far includes doggy-style, dissing someones motorcycle and adultery), you can manage to absolve yourself of your sins and lack of moral fiber.

Dan, go see Breaking the Waves by Lars Von Trier - and then come back and tell us what you think of it. Considering how much you enjoy this subject I am positively certain you will enjoy the film. Although, if you are in a bad mood, you might consider it blasphemy.

The Stranger

19th June 2008, 15:25

Good shit. I suspect you'd benefit from joining me occasionally; I find that it makes me more empathic.

You posted that the thread had 'brought out the hypocrites'.

007XX and I were the only people in it at that point who had been noticeably outspoken against adultery.

You may have hoped to annoy us without having to subsequently stand behind your words, but your intention was clear, and I won't let you get away with such cowardice in argument.

I called you on my supposition that you'd been accusing me of hypocrisy, and you didn't deny that in response. I've been very clear in my refutation of that. If you consider my refutation invalid, you'd better show why.

Still, I'm almost satisfied by your back-pedalling, here. Keep it up, and you'll be in no danger of needing to borrow Shaun's false teeth.

:msn-wink:

Good chap. That's what I needed to hear.

It helps your earlier mealy-mouthed 'judge not...' approach immensely; I'd advise you to lead with such a clarification in future.

Oh sorry, did you see that as back pedalling.

Once again for the sake of clarification, my opinions remain the same as when I made my first post.

jrandom

19th June 2008, 15:31

Oh sorry, did you see that as back pedalling.

:yes:

:niceone:

Once again for the sake of clarification...

The clarification is the nub and the rub of it.

I do enjoy realising that someone I've taken issue with was actually agreeing with me all along, but suffering from an apparent communication breakdown.

So, yes, I'm cool with that.

jrandom

19th June 2008, 15:33

You are now a 'distasteful individual' to the Church of jrandom...

In the time it took you to compose that, I added to the canon.

I commend to your attention the post immediately prior to your own.

:cool:

007XX

19th June 2008, 15:34

Righto...so?

Threesome, anyone??

jrandom

19th June 2008, 15:36

Threesome, anyone??

Goddammit, woman, I keep telling you, it's not adultery if Neil's selling footage of it on the internet for beer money.

mstriumph

19th June 2008, 15:39

...................
I'd also like to point out that we're not really talking about sex, here. That's incidental. The issue that lies behind the subject of adultery is honesty and integrity; the keeping of promises and the telling of truth.

Sex is wonderful; deceit is loathsome. An inability to acknowledge both of those truths characterises the thinking of many an adulterer;.................

Guilt? I think what we call 'guilt' is the knowledge that one is on the wrong path, combined with the lack of strength to leave it.

The past is water under the bridge. Once the correct lessons have been learned from it, obsessing about it benefits nobody.

blingy-bling-bling
:msn-wink:

Mikkel

19th June 2008, 15:41

In the time it took you to compose that, I added to the canon.

I commend to your attention the post immediately prior to your own.

:cool:

Indeed curse these old stiff fingers - you coders have one up on us here :p
Good show! Now you just need to get rid of the internet-tough guy attitude and I'll start liking you again :hug:

Righto...so?

Threesome, anyone??

Not so loud dammit!

But I'd prefer to keep all five fingers on both my hands to be honest :crazy:

007XX

19th June 2008, 15:42

Goddammit, woman, I keep telling you, it's not adultery if Neil's selling footage of it on the internet for beer money.

Beer money my arse...I am intending on using my wanton, despicable ways to fashion an empire of deprivation, with Dildos made out of recycled silicone breat implants.

portokiwi

19th June 2008, 15:43

Righto...so?

Threesome, anyone??
:Oops: I allmost fainted:o

007XX

19th June 2008, 15:45

:Oops: I allmost fainted:o

Gee...you're easy!

ManDownUnder

19th June 2008, 15:46

Righto...so?

Threesome, anyone??

Oh God - there goes the neighbourhood.... LMAO!

I have to say - you have bigger balls than most on here though LOLOL!

Badjelly

19th June 2008, 15:47

My initial post was a general comment on moral type threads.

All you've really said so far is

Some people are hypocrites
It's wrong to judge people

The first is obvious, but since you haven't backed it up with any detail (who's a hypocrite and why?) it's just a general slur, likely to cause offence and misunderstanding.

The second, which I believe originates from a minor prophet in Roman Palestine, is debatable and irrelevant to the thread, which has been about judging behaviour, not individual people.

Badjelly

19th June 2008, 15:53

Threesome, anyone??

Judging from the response so far, you should get enough for a tensome!

007XX

19th June 2008, 15:58

Oh God - there goes the neighbourhood.... LMAO!

I have to say - you have bigger balls than most on here though LOLOL!

pah...you know me, I'm the same in real life.

All you've really said so far is

Some people are hypocrites
It's wrong to judge people

The first is obvious, but since you haven't backed it up with any detail (who's a hypocrite and why?) it's just a general slur, likely to cause offence and misunderstanding.

The second, which I believe originates from a minor prophet in Roman Palestine, is debatable and irrelevant to the thread, which has been about judging behaviour, not individual people.

I have really come to appreciate your posts. Nicely put!

But I'd prefer to keep all five fingers on both my hands to be honest :crazy:

Nah, you're quite safe, I assure you.

Judging from the response so far, you should get enough for a tensome!

Nah, these boys are just playing...

Coyote

19th June 2008, 18:00

Naaaahh - cost efficient one might say .....;)
Swoon, gotta love dirty talk :p

Only the phsyical manifestation.
Not if you believe in reincarnation.

I need to share the love around before giving it to you again...but that definitely was a good answer!

I love sexual innuendo, it keeps me truckin'

Us guys especially are weak when it comes to expressing our emotions and dealing appropriately with our feelings.

The opposite of Love is APATHY.
I think I'm strong by keeping many emotions unexpressed. After a while of being told "you can tell me about anything" when friends could see I was in distress, I finally did until I realised I had become consumed with moaning and it was only pushing people away. And there's the obvious temptation of wanting to maim/kill/destroy the lives of many people. It's best to simply bottle the majority of things up inside and either seek a councillor or empty stretches of road.

Good line that one.

It would appear, though, that you (and a few others) see adultery as less obviously 'wrong' than motorcycle theft.

Well, yeah. Goes to show just how wrong motorcycle theft is :p

portokiwi

19th June 2008, 18:01

Gee...you're easy!
:whistle: did you see my pics:o

Coyote

19th June 2008, 18:03

Righto...so?

Threesome, anyone??
Yes please.

Goddammit, woman, I keep telling you, it's not adultery if Neil's selling footage of it on the internet for beer money.

Nerf Herder - Love Sandwich

Girl sometimes you're hungry,
You want something to eat
You don't want no little salad yes you want a lot of meat
You don't want no pastrami,
And no corned beef on rye
Girl there's only one kind of sandwich that's really gonna satisfy

chorus:
Love sandwich
Love sandwich, uh huh
Love sandwich
Love sandwich, uh huh

This ain't the kind of snack
That you get from your mommy
Your mommy ain't never seen such a whole lot of salami
Girl I'm gonna take you on a superfantastic trip
'cause, baby you haven't had nothing til you've had my miracle whip

(chorus)

Yeah you, and me, and Steve makes three
And Dave has got the video, Dave has got the video
Yeah you, and me, and Steve makes three
And Dave has got the video, Dave has got the
Yeah you, and Steve, and Bernie makes three
And Fernando and Mr. Belvedere in the hot tub, yeah!

Girl sometimes you're hungry,
You want something to eat
You don't want no little salad yes you want a lot of meat
Let me tell you 'bout
The funky love sandwich
Me and Steve are the bread
And you're the meat, bitch!

(chorus)

Love sandwich, uh huh uh huh uh huh (4x)

Judging from the response so far, you should get enough for a tensome!
Not yet. Think everyone's been afraid to say a blunt 'yes' so far. 'cept me, but who really takes me seriously?

Mikkel

19th June 2008, 18:05

Nah, you're quite safe, I assure you.

I hope so - my regular sixsomes haven't even deterioated my eye-sight yet! :D

_Shrek_

19th June 2008, 18:11

Boy meets girl :drool: = lust
then you start going out & you tell all your mates that he/she is just perfact in every way our souls are just so intwind (girls thinking) boys just following their .....
then bang they relise this is could be mr or mrs wright so You marry the person your've fallin in love with, then during that first year they see the Monday to Friday person they married, :EEK5: he/she farts in public or has this discusting habbit that drives you :argh: so after that year you have to love the person you married :hug:

it does'nt mean its time to jump the fence coz the grass is greener on the other side & commit adultery it means you should be communicating from the very start so when the shit does hit the fan halve the problem is over coz you know how to communicate

after 23 years i'm more in :love: with Mrs Shrek than before we got hitched but it takes time, sacrifices & effort to build, not to be throwin away by banging some one out of shear lust or coz there's a few problems at home

Adultery is wrong :Pokey:

Mrs Busa Pete

19th June 2008, 18:24

Coyote

19th June 2008, 20:17

I think that there is a common assumption these days that we "fall in love" with someone, often at first sight...
I believe the "love at first site" thing is shit. You can't get a full idea of what it's like to live with someone or what their personality is like by their looks. It's like falling love is only based on attractiveness. Which at school is basically the case with the popular couples that have the personalities of planks.

Trudes

19th June 2008, 20:26

Edbear

19th June 2008, 20:28

I believe the "love at first site" thing is shit. You can't get a full idea of what it's like to live with someone or what their personality is like by their looks. It's like falling love is only based on attractiveness. Which at school is basically the case with the popular couples that have the personalities of planks.

Granted about getting the "full idea of what it's like to live with someone", bit, but speaking for myself, there was "something" about the future Mrs. Edbear that caught my eye on first seeing her "across the crowded room".

Yes, she was attractive, but so were many other girls I knew. There was a "chemistry?" there, as she said later that she felt the same when she saw me. What is it that attracts us to someone at first sight? Don't know, really, but after 30 years of marriage, I have no regrets, (though a few times during the early years...)

Trudes

19th June 2008, 20:34

Well Kendog says he remembers seeing me walking to the pub one evening and thought he'd like to 'get to know' me etc, but to be honest when I first met him I didn't think anything, it wasn't until I had spoken to him a few times and got to know what he was like that I decided that I'd like to get to know him better.

Number One

19th June 2008, 20:46

Granted about getting the "full idea of what it's like to live with someone", bit, but speaking for myself, there was "something" about the future Mrs. Edbear that caught my eye on first seeing her "across the crowded room".

Yes, she was attractive, but so were many other girls I knew. There was a "chemistry?" there, as she said later that she felt the same when she saw me. What is it that attracts us to someone at first sight? Don't know, really, but after 30 years of marriage, I have no regrets, (though a few times during the early years...)
I agree. Thought my man was the shizzle fo my nizzle (did ya get that Hitcher :lol:) unfortunately so did one of my good friends skanky and slightly butch (but not gay) female friends - and she in no uncertain terms made it clear that she had 'bagsd him' (despite having a bf at the time - did I mention she was a total skank?) so I had to looky looky but no touchy touchy....

Couple of years down the track though and that filthy slapper had proven to all in sundry just what a farken loser she was and we slowly but surely we got to know each other and well after over 5 years of marraige and one beautiful boy later I haven't looked back.

:love: you hon

He however tells a slightly different story - when he first met me he thought I was a total cock! :lol: (he's not really wrong there :eek:)
There was a lot of stirring going on though - forces trying to keep us apart and all...sounds like a mills and boon don't it?!

Coyote

19th June 2008, 20:52

Number One

19th June 2008, 20:56

There have been many girls that have caught my attention in a similar way, but they turned out to be quite bitchy.
Shock horror?! GIRLS YOUR AGE BITCHY????? Noooo surely not :lol:

Actually some women are just bitches too - I have heaps of friends both guys and girls but have to admit except for my very best girlfriends I prefer the company of boys...much less complicated and dramatic!

Mom

19th June 2008, 20:58

I believe the "love at first site" thing is shit.

Yeah I never saw stars and felt the luuurrrvvve right away.

Yep, it's called lust, not love eh!
Yep, one sniff of them pheremones(sp) and :blip: it is all over rover!

Coyote

19th June 2008, 21:07

Shock horror?! GIRLS YOUR AGE BITCHY????? Noooo surely not :lol:

Actually some women are just bitches too - I have heaps of friends both guys and girls but have to admit except for my very best girlfriends I prefer the company of boys...much less complicated and dramatic!
I shit you not :laugh:

Guy friends don't typically talk behind your back. Even one of my better girl friends has given away a few things I've told her that she was not meant too...

Yep, one sniff of them pheremones(sp) and :blip: it is all over rover!
What? Lynx?

Trudes

19th June 2008, 21:10

Actually some women are just bitches too - I have heaps of friends both guys and girls but have to admit except for my very best girlfriends I prefer the company of boys...much less complicated and dramatic!

You better friggin be including me as one of the girls you like spending time with, or I'll come round and bitch slap your arse, woman!!!:girlfight:
But I agree, I much prefer usually to hang with the boys and get pissed and talk bikes and shite, and tend to get on best with chicks who like to get pissed and talk about shit and be disgusting too!!:whistle:

Trudes

19th June 2008, 21:12

Yep, one sniff of them pheremones(sp) and :blip: it is all over rover!

pussy juice???

Number One

19th June 2008, 21:18

You better friggin be including me as one of the girls you like spending time with, or I'll come round and bitch slap your arse, woman!!!:girlfight:
But I agree, I much prefer usually to hang with the boys and get pissed and talk bikes and shite, and tend to get on best with chicks who like to get pissed and talk about shit and be disgusting too!!:whistle:
I'm saddened you even had to ask.

AND yes I love to get pissed, talk about shit and be disgusting
(that last one my own personal fav)

Number One

19th June 2008, 21:19

pussy juice???
LMAO!!!

You on the Ricadonnas too?! :lol:

Trudes

19th June 2008, 21:24

LMAO!!!

You on the Ricadonnas too?! :lol:

Ricadonnas!!! hahaha, and Chardon and Spewmante(sp), the good old student days of drinking two bottles of the cheapest wine I could find and then go and cause trouble!!

Mom

19th June 2008, 21:26

pussy juice???

Never turned me on....but whatever floats your boat really...I prefer HOT MAN smell myself :innocent:

Number One

19th June 2008, 21:27

Never turned me on....but whatever floats your boat really...I prefer HOT MAN smell myself :innocent:
mmm all sweaty and musky - love that workin man smell.......hubby home shexxy time - see you later

Trudes

19th June 2008, 21:27

Never turned me on....but whatever floats your boat really...I prefer HOT MAN smell myself :innocent:

Oh you meant what you like the smell of, not what you smell of!!:whistle:

Mom

19th June 2008, 21:27

mmm all sweaty and musky - love that workin man smell.......hubby home shexxy time - see you later

Still cant bling you! Dirty Bitch!

Number One

19th June 2008, 21:28

Still cant bling you! Dirty Bitch!
OI get it right - it's durty biarch :laugh:

smoky

19th June 2008, 21:42

Bail out - the shelias have taken over the thread :gob:

smoky

19th June 2008, 21:44

Hunter for what, if not lust, a wild beast
A spear of seductive tongue and cunning deceit
Hiding in shadow lands, duplicit in nature
To Lear her wants and entice with a lure

Desire to be wanted, loves not the prey
Her touch affirming, not repulsive to one
Warm feelings deep in the ethereal sin, Acceptance.
When wintering in the connection of a soul
She gives of her self, the most intimate of her
My mind swims with the pleasure – desire found

To lay in a den of familiar love
Tired from wanting in fainting light
But not to lose the most precious of all
Careful to encapsulate a veiled state in the dead of night

James Deuce

20th June 2008, 08:05

Bail out - the shelias have taken over the thread :gob:

Hunter for what, if not lust, a wild beast
A spear of seductive tongue and cunning deceit
Hiding in shadow lands, duplicit in nature
To Lear her wants and entice with a lure

Desire to be wanted, loves not the prey
Her touch affirming, not repulsive to one
Warm feelings deep in the ethereal sin, Acceptance.
When wintering in the connection of a soul
She gives of her self, the most intimate of her
My mind swims with the pleasure – desire found

To lay in a den of familiar love
Tired from wanting in fainting light
But not to lose the most precious of all
Careful to encapsulate a veiled state in the dead of night

Surely thou art conflicted.

Fear not, fair Shemaiden, the state will fund thy gender reassignment.

merv

20th June 2008, 08:34

Any way where were we? Really this is all about how we were made (the religious debate maybe) and whoever's idea it was that basic instincts prevail and the male of the species wants every woman of the species and to be top dog in the bitch house, while the opposite basic instinct is you know, well, the opposite.

imdying

20th June 2008, 09:23

Still, I'm almost satisfied by your back-pedalling, here. Keep it up, and you'll be in no danger of needing to borrow Shaun's false teeth.You better keep those thinly veiled threats to yourself or you'll get knocked the fuck out man :argue:

007XX

20th June 2008, 10:31

I love sexual innuendo, it keeps me truckin'

he he...love your work, young one!

:whistle: did you see my pics:o

Yes, I did (ROFL)...I wonder if Shrek Lone Rider did though? Btw....love the gun!

Yes please.
[/CENTER]

Well done...finally one who's got enough balls to say it.

Not yet. Think everyone's been afraid to say a blunt 'yes' so far.

Exactly! And don't worry about what other people think...

Any way where were we? Really this is all about how we were made (the religious debate maybe) and whoever's idea it was that basic instincts prevail and the male of the species wants every woman of the species and to be top dog in the bitch house, while the opposite basic instinct is you know, well, the opposite.

Well, that was a massive turn on...Please don't say anymore, you're taking all the fun out of it.

idb

20th June 2008, 10:49

It always looks like fun in British comedies

mstriumph

20th June 2008, 18:20

Oh God - there goes the neighbourhood.... LMAO!

I have to say - you have bigger balls than most on here though LOLOL!
erm - would that be an advantage or a DISadvantage to 007XX in a 3some situation?? :confused:

Coyote

20th June 2008, 19:56

Well done...finally one who's got enough balls to say it.

It's not so much balls as it is cheeks.

I really hope someone gets that.

007XX

23rd June 2008, 08:59

erm - would that be an advantage or a DISadvantage to 007XX in a 3some situation?? :confused:

It would to the disadvantage for the other two parties, but only if I was having a bad case of the blue balls...

More seriously though...I do have a certain amount of respect for whoever actually goes ahead with having a threesome and does it successfully.
You must have to be pretty unhinibited to be able to go through with it, let alone making it a successful venture...

Number One

23rd June 2008, 09:39

You must have to be pretty unhinibited to be able to go through with it, let alone making it a successful venture...

I think it would be the stuff after the deed that would be the problem.

pretty sure a threesome with the right people and plied with enough 'uninhibiters' that it could be rather nice - I mean come on?! Who doesn't enjoy a good root? :lol:

The problems would be in the fall out and you just can't really predict and seems to me there are more possible negative scenarios that are far more likely than 'everyone just keeps getting along great etc etc'

007XX

23rd June 2008, 12:03

I think it would be the stuff after the deed that would be the problem.

pretty sure a threesome with the right people and plied with enough 'uninhibiters' that it could be rather nice - I mean come on?! Who doesn't enjoy a good root? :lol:

The problems would be in the fall out and you just can't really predict and seems to me there are more possible negative scenarios that are far more likely than 'everyone just keeps getting along great etc etc'

Someone pointed out to me via rep that being unhinibited is not so much what is part of the recipe for success, but more that insecurities are what will heavily at play in such a situation.

And I'd tend to agree...especially if some of the individuals taking part in the threesome are emotionally involved.

But anyway, I think we're probably diverging too much towards the other thread...

So, to bring it back to what MDU was saying, are there EVER any situations where adultery can be seen as permissible?

jrandom

23rd June 2008, 12:20

... to bring it back to what MDU was saying, are there EVER any situations where adultery can be seen as permissible?

I commented previously on 'boundary conditions', didn't I?

The 'mentally disabled spouse' situation springs to mind - when one still wants to care for a person one loves, but that person isn't capable of understanding one's own needs or giving assent to anything of their own accord, 'adultery' ceases to be the betrayal that it would have been when they had all their marbles.

I'm reminded of the case in the news recently of a man who was convicted of sexual assault (if I recall correctly) after having sex with his senile wife while a friend watched. The court found that she wasn't capable of consenting to such activity. Apparently he'd been a good husband to her for decades, and this was a solitary lapse of judgment.

Obviously the man in question would have done better to leave her in peace and find some other woman of sound mind to look after his needs while he cared for his wife as needed during her decline.

I can't think of any situations other than mental disability that fit the bill, though.

007XX

23rd June 2008, 12:32

I commented previously on 'boundary conditions', didn't I?

Yes you did. However, as entrancing as your point of views are, I was looking forward to seeing other peoples' takes on the subject.

I can't think of any situations other than mental disability that fit the bill, though.

Neither can I for what it's worth.

jrandom

23rd June 2008, 12:39

other peoples' takes

Brownie points for syntactical effort, there, but that should be people's - the possessive apostrophe only goes after the 's' when the 's' is required to form the plural.

Coyote

23rd June 2008, 16:03

Brownie points for syntactical effort, there, but that should be people's - the possessive apostrophe only goes after the 's' when the 's' is required to form the plural.
It's never wise to correct a women's spelling.

jrandom

23rd June 2008, 16:06

women's

Heh.<tencharacters>

Coyote

23rd June 2008, 16:12

Heh.<tencharacters>
It's not irony since I'm a guy is it?

Edbear

23rd June 2008, 16:16

...So, to bring it back to what MDU was saying, are there EVER any situations where adultery can be seen as permissible?

Not in my opinion, FWIW...

jrandom

23rd June 2008, 16:21

FWIW

About $1.72, I'd say.

:msn-wink:

jrandom

23rd June 2008, 16:25

It's not irony since I'm a guy is it?

I'm only 14 and I've recently started to race with the Wellington Bucket Racing club in a junior supermotard class and I really want to get into top road racing with proper 1000cc race bikes. Only I dont know how to get there.

It's good to see that the last four years haven't eroded your ability to be straight-facedly hilarious.

Coyote

23rd June 2008, 16:31

It's good to see that the last four years haven't eroded your ability to be straight-facedly hilarious.
I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

The youth have such ridiculous dreams don't they?

Badjelly

23rd June 2008, 16:57

I really can't tell if you're being sarcastic or taking the piss.

Is there a difference?

Coyote

23rd June 2008, 17:07

Is there a difference?
I think in this situation there isn't...

Sigh... Edited, despite being quoted.

CookMySock

23rd June 2008, 17:26

However, as entrancing as your point of views are, I was looking forward to seeing other peoples' takes on the subject.That it the most polite CHAWWWWP I have ever seen, lol. :)

DB

Number One

23rd June 2008, 17:29

Not in my opinion, FWIW...
+1 FWIW BTW ok :lol:

fricken 10 chars!!!

007XX

24th June 2008, 10:58

Brownie points for syntactical effort, there, but that should be people's - the possessive apostrophe only goes after the 's' when the 's' is required to form the plural.

Ah yes...thanks for that. It's one of these little rules that always seem to elude me somehow.

It's never wise to correct a women's spelling.

Smartarse...

Not in my opinion, FWIW...

I am of the mind that there can be the odd extreme case, but am thoroughly disapproving of anyone turning one of these extremes into a case in point to justify their misbehavings.

That it the most polite CHAWWWWP I have ever seen, lol. :)
DB

*bows graciously to compliment* So much more fun when done with subtlety...

_Shrek_

24th June 2008, 16:07

Yes, I did (ROFL)...I wonder if Shrek Lone Rider did though?

where what when :lol: can i see

007XX

24th June 2008, 16:18

where what when :lol: can i see

Ok, you asked for it and it's your birthday soooooo...*commercial voice* "As seen in Portokiwi's albums"DISCLAIMER:

Folks, this is NWS, so don't come complaining if you open it, and then little Tommy was peering over your shoulder and is now permanently brain damaged and traumatised like, ok?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=407

CookMySock

24th June 2008, 17:56

Folks, this is NWS, so don't come complaining ..nooo, little timmy loved it - wants more !

DB

Number One

24th June 2008, 18:06

don't come complaining if you open it, and then little Tommy was peering over your shoulder and is now permanently brain damaged and traumatised like, ok?
ewww :puke: Shrek has a warty cock! Princess Fiona & Donkey are in for some kind of itching burning treat me thinks

CookMySock

24th June 2008, 18:33

ewww :puke: nooo, try it, you'll like it ! :yes:

DB

Number One

24th June 2008, 18:43

nooo, try it, you'll like it ! :yes:

DB
WTF? If I TRY warty cocks I'll like it? Somehow I doubt that....

Trudes

24th June 2008, 18:47

I never realised that Fiona was such a slutty cocksucker!! No wonder those other princesses had it in for her, she was probably fucking their mice or dwarfs.

Sully One

24th June 2008, 18:49

I never realised that Fiona was such a slutty cocksucker!! No wonder those other princesses had it in for her, she was probably fucking their mice or dwarfs.
LMAO!!!! Can I get a copy of that action aunty Trudes :love:

Trudes

24th June 2008, 18:52

LMAO!!!! Can I get a copy of that action aunty Trudes :love:

No way little guy, I've heard you quoting lines out of movies, and I don't think that's the kind of stuff you should be repeating at kindy!! Come see me when you're 16 and I'll give you a copy.:hug:

Coyote

24th June 2008, 19:04

Smartarse...

I'm being serious! I have not met a women that does not treat being corrected as though they've been told "I hate you, go and die".

Unless I'd rather them to go and die since I hate them, I'll never provoke a women in such a way.

oldrider

24th June 2008, 19:14

jrandom

24th June 2008, 19:17

a women

:blink:

Sigh.

Does this mean your use of 'women' rather than 'woman' the first time around wasn't a subtle bit of intentional wordplay?

:pinch:

Coyote

24th June 2008, 19:27

:blink:

Sigh.

Does this mean your use of 'women' rather than 'woman' the first time around wasn't a subtle bit of intentional wordplay?

:pinch:
Think I would be so clever?

School's haven't really put much emphasis on spelling. The last thing I was taught how to spell was 'cat'.

Funnily enough, firefox spell check didn't pick up on it.

jrandom

24th June 2008, 19:36

Think I would be so clever?

Well, actually... yes.

:pinch:

Bugger.

I'm going to get mercilessly needled about this tomorrow.

Still, the original 'a women's' was quite clever, and quite funny. Pity it was unintentional.

Coyote

24th June 2008, 19:44

Still, the original 'a women's' was quite clever, and quite funny. Pity it was unintentional.
Many people find my ignorance humorous.

Still don't understand what's so funny about it. These things tend to hit me like a glacier. Best leave me to figure it out.

Goblin

24th June 2008, 19:45

:pinch:

Bugger.Did anyone ever tell you how much you look like that pink cuddly, fuzzy pink bat in the pink bat commercial?

jrandom

24th June 2008, 19:50

Still don't understand what's so funny about it.

I told 007XX that one puts the possessive apostrophe before the 's' in words that don't need the 's' to make them plurals.

Like 'people'.

Also, like 'women' (the plural of 'woman').

So you responded with the phrase 'a women's', thereby applying my rule correctly, but chucking in an indefinite article to keep the syntax incorrect.

Coyote

24th June 2008, 19:54

I told 007XX that one puts the possessive apostrophe before the 's' in words that don't need the 's' to make them plurals.

Like 'people'.

Also, like 'women' (the plural of 'woman').

So you responded with the phrase 'a women's', thereby applying my rule correctly, but chucking in an indefinite article to keep the syntax incorrect.
I wouldn't have been able to come up with something like that unless I spent more time with my posts. As you can see with my post count, I don't.

Thanks for thinking so highly of me, but it wasn't to be this time.

Trudes

24th June 2008, 20:07

I'm being serious! I have not met a women that does not treat being corrected as though they've been told "I hate you, go and die".

Unless I'd rather them to go and die since I hate them, I'll never provoke a women in such a way.

Good thinking!!
If there has been one thing I have learned from spending time on KB it is to not take people disagreeing with me or correcting me, personally. If they make some kind of personal attack on me, I think that just shows that they are an arsehole for having to resort to personal attacks, especially if they don't actually know me.

I wouldn't have been able to come up with something like that unless I spent more time with my posts.

And with your head up your arse too probably, so thank goodness you don't!!

merv

24th June 2008, 20:13

And with your head up your arse too probably, so thank goodness you don't!!

That brings new meaning to any thoughts of anal :gob:.

Coyote

24th June 2008, 20:26

Good thinking!!
If there has been one thing I have learned from spending time on KB it is to not take people disagreeing with me or correcting me, personally. If they make some kind of personal attack on me, I think that just shows that they are an arsehole for having to resort to personal attacks, especially if they don't actually know me.

I've cottoned onto that as well. It's best not to take the bait with counter attacks, it only feeds the flames of abuse. Not that I believe jrandom would be abusive toward me. Don't think I deserve the honour quite yet. :p

And with your head up your arse too probably, so thank goodness you don't!!
My head has always been outside of my arse, and hasn't been near anyone elses. Except one person, though closer to the original topic I'll go no further...

CookMySock

24th June 2008, 21:59

[...] to not take people disagreeing with me or correcting me, personally.I reckon. What amazes me is getting flamed or red-repped because someone disagrees. geez..

DB

Trudes

25th June 2008, 07:46

I reckon. What amazes me is getting flamed or red-repped because someone disagrees. geez..

DB

haha, and what's really funny is those people are usually the first ones to start yelling about everyone being entitled to an opinion.:laugh:

sinfull

25th June 2008, 08:42

It doesn't generally matter where you get your appetite, just as long as you eat at home! :shifty: John.
Nearly as good as *just because i'm on a diet, does not mean i wont look at the menu*!

007XX

25th June 2008, 09:29

nooo, little timmy loved it - wants more !
DB

You're disturbing, and yet fairly lovable...nice mix!

ewww :puke: Shrek has a warty cock! Princess Fiona & Donkey are in for some kind of itching burning treat me thinks

Don't blame me...Shrek Lone Rider wanted to see it.

I never realised that Fiona was such a slutty cocksucker!! No wonder those other princesses had it in for her, she was probably fucking their mice or dwarfs.

Eh, it is calledbeing liberated and open minded with a general enjoyment of many opportunities being taken...

Bah, who am i kiddin'? She does look like she'd be a bit of a slut eh?

I'm being serious! I have not met a women that does not treat being corrected as though they've been told "I hate you, go and die".
Unless I'd rather them to go and die since I hate them, I'll never provoke a women in such a way.

Well, before my overly clever friend Jrandom interjected on my thoughts upon the matter, I had a nice reply brewed up for you, along the lines of:

Just as we had mentioned earlier on in the thread, often the origin of human relational difficulties can be traced to insecurities...so, I potentially should be reacting to Jrandom's correction in an aggressive manner if I felt at all insecure about my capabilitie to use correctly the english grammar, but I don't.

I am quite honnestly happy about Jr correcting me as I see it as constructive criticism and it helps me better my english. And yes, as one of my closest friends, he is fully aware of this.

It doesn't generally matter where you get your appetite, just as long as you eat at home! :shifty: John.

yes, and you and I have always agreed on this one...As far as I'm concerned, you're one of the last cowboys John: a true gentleman. Pip is a lucky lady!

007XX

25th June 2008, 09:34

:blink:

Sigh.

Does this mean your use of 'women' rather than 'woman' the first time around wasn't a subtle bit of intentional wordplay?

:pinch:

Told ya...

Well, actually... yes.

:pinch:

Bugger.

I'm going to get mercilessly needled about this tomorrow.

Ya think?????

I told 007XX that one puts the possessive apostrophe before the 's' in words that don't need the 's' to make them plurals.

Like 'people'.

Also, like 'women' (the plural of 'woman').

So you responded with the phrase 'a women's', thereby applying my rule correctly, but chucking in an indefinite article to keep the syntax incorrect.

And...once again: I told you so... Oh how I am enjoying this. Cheap win, but who gives a hoot???

Thanks for thinking so highly of me, but it wasn't to be this time.

Ok, that's enough of that you...unless you want me to come over and spank you personally...
Seriously though, you are way more clever than you give yourself credit for, so stop belittling yourself.

Coyote

25th June 2008, 12:52

Well, before my overly clever friend Jrandom interjected on my thoughts upon the matter, I had a nice reply brewed up for you, along the lines of:

Just as we had mentioned earlier on in the thread, often the origin of human relational difficulties can be traced to insecurities...so, I potentially should be reacting to Jrandom's correction in an aggressive manner if I felt at all insecure about my capabilitie to use correctly the english grammar, but I don't.

I am quite honnestly happy about Jr correcting me as I see it as constructive criticism and it helps me better my english. And yes, as one of my closest friends, he is fully aware of this.

Yeah, but you're weird. :bleh:

Ok, that's enough of that you...unless you want me to come over and spank you personally...
Seriously though, you are way more clever than you give yourself credit for, so stop belittling yourself.
Is that supposed to deter me?

I don't want to seem arrogant so I never talk highly of myself unless I'm joking or if I'm really just that awesome. Which I am.

Yes, as above, when all affected parties know and are willing.Is it still adultery if all those involved, physically or emotionally, are aware and ok with the act?

007XX

25th June 2008, 12:59

Yeah, but you're weird. :bleh:

Eeerrr, yes...but your point is? you say that like it's a bad thing...lol

Is that supposed to deter me?

It would if you had any sense in you...or if you knew me :devil2:

I don't want to seem arrogant so I never talk highly of myself unless I'm joking or if I'm really just that awesome. Which I am.

Good answer.

Is it still adultery if all those involved, physically or emotionally, are aware and ok with the act?

Nope, not in my books...adultery comprises an amount of treachery, it is the act of cheating on one's partner without their knowledge.

That is the very fine line drawn between an individual having sex with a third party unbeknown to his spouse and an individual having sex with a third party while his spouse takes active part in the sexual action or even just watches...

Knowledge and acquiessence make all the difference.

Coyote

25th June 2008, 18:19

Eeerrr, yes...but your point is? you say that like it's a bad thing...lol

My point is you're not exactly an accurate representation of the average female. And that's not a bad thing at all. Most wimmin are too obsessive over celebrities and laugh like drains...

http://www.xkcd.com/433/

It would if you had any sense in you...or if you knew me :devil2:
I think I've already mentioned in another thread that a bit of pain isn't necessarily a bad thing.

Good answer.
Churr

Nope, not in my books...adultery comprises an amount of treachery, it is the act of cheating on one's partner without their knowledge.

That is the very fine line drawn between an individual having sex with a third party unbeknown to his spouse and an individual having sex with a third party while his spouse takes active part in the sexual action or even just watches...

Knowledge and acquiessence make all the difference.
That's what I thought. So we're back to adultery not being OK unless someone has become handicapped?