Rear shock for 98 Bandit600

[tri boy]

As the title says, I might need a shock for a 98 Bandit600.
Open to ideas. ie later model Bandit shock from a wreck with low kms, other brand, (remember it's an older/low value bike),
Pretty sure the oem ones are non rebuildable, but I could be wrong there.
Dampening is very average.
Plus the forks feel soft. (damper rod design?)

Cheers.
(looking at it for Kanny's second bike)
$$ will be kept to a minium on this bike, as it's pointless overcapitalizing on it.

[Pumba]

OEM shock is not rebuildable as such, when mine flogged out I was told there are a few people that could rebuild it but weather it was really worth it or not was another question.

I still have my stuffed one in the shed in box that I doubt is very little use to anyone.

I did manage to replace mine with a brand new factory OEM unit, wasnt cheap for what they are, $500 from memory

[erik]

have you had a look on http://forums.banditalley.net there might be info there about what shocks are good upgrades. There's an sv1000 shock on trademe at the moment, I don't know if that'd fit?

[tri boy]

Cheers guys. ;)
Yep, have started to do some snooping around on sites etc.
Getting a bit of info together, as I will probably need to update the fork springs etc and do something about the 50000km old shock.:scooter:
Sheesh, just as I was getting comfy on the couch for winter, kanny decides she wants another bike. (tis cold in that garage in winter I tells ya):cold:

Apparently GSXR shocks can be squeezed in, but hopefully RT can give me some feedback sometime.

[Robert Taylor]

have you had a look on http://forums.banditalley.net there might be info there about what shocks are good upgrades. There's an sv1000 shock on trademe at the moment, I don't know if that'd fit?

Extreme care must be taken when mixing and matching shock absorbers, its not only a matter of whether it will fit or not.

For example ( and this by no means covers it all ) :

1) Correct length?

2) Stroke?

3) At all points of travel is there no interference with the frame and other objects?

4) Is the spring rate somewhere near correct?

5) Allied with point 4 above is the internal specification conversant with the motion ratio that the linkage applies to it and also the leverage applied by the swingarm etc?

In all respects above the SV1000 shock cited as a possibility is totally unsuitable, the bike would be unstable and a danger to its rider and other road users.

[tri boy]

Thanks Robert. I hope to pick the bike up tomorrow, and will be in touch for fork service/mod options in the future.
The rear shock is not showing any signs of leakage or damage, but obviously is a budget job and in the near future will need replacing.
Karen is a sedate road rider, so will not need a high spec suspension package, rather something that will accommodate her gentle riding, and leave a few dollars in the bank.
PS. The Daytona and Scrambler are still performing nicely on the kits you made up for them. Hence the call here for some of your advice on the Bandit.
Cheers.

[erik]

Extreme care must be taken when mixing and matching shock absorbers, its not only a matter of whether it will fit or not.

For example ( and this by no means covers it all ) :

1) Correct length?

2) Stroke?

3) At all points of travel is there no interference with the frame and other objects?

4) Is the spring rate somewhere near correct?

5) Allied with point 4 above is the internal specification conversant with the motion ratio that the linkage applies to it and also the leverage applied by the swingarm etc?

In all respects above the SV1000 shock cited as a possibility is totally unsuitable, the bike would be unstable and a danger to its rider and other road users.
Obviously care is needed. It would have been more useful and informative if you'd told us why the sv1000 shock is unsuitable rather than being vague and over-dramatic.

[HTFU]

Hagon in the UK will land one for $750 ish. For a point of reference for anything here. They are meant to be pretty good according to the guys that have put them on the gpx (then again it is a gpx)

[Robert Taylor]

Obviously care is needed. It would have been more useful and informative if you'd told us why the sv1000 shock is unsuitable rather than being vague and over-dramatic.

No intention to be vague and overdramatic at all, also no intention to write volumes of information every time I do a post. Heck, a lot of people usually have to pay for such advice or bowl headlong into it and make an expensive mistake. Reality.

[Robert Taylor]

Hagon in the UK will land one for $750 ish. For a point of reference for anything here. They are meant to be pretty good according to the guys that have put them on the gpx (then again it is a gpx)

Why would you buy one straight out of the UK when there is a NZ distributor with backup infrastructure, empolying and looking after our own?

[HornetBoy]

The katana ,which has an almost a replica frame to the bandit,is usually swaped out for a Hyabusa rear shock (because it gives full adjustability at prices even lower then oem bandit shocks) or like mentioned above gsxr750 shocks.

Id go for one off ebay for about $220 NZD and put that on ,their has been only priase over in the states for the Hyabusa conversion ,which is no more difficult than swapping out the oem shock. Im in the process of doing it myself with a shock off an 08" busa,only im doing the front end aswell :niceone:

[tri boy]

Hagon in the UK will land one for $750 ish. For a point of reference for anything here. They are meant to be pretty good according to the guys that have put them on the gpx (then again it is a gpx)

Yep tried a Hagon on the Daytona, (money wasted IMHO).
Couldn't believe how basic and harsh it felt. (worse than the original in many ways).

Also have read about the Busa swap out, but will read a bit more.
Thanks for the input guys.:cool:
Robert, are there any other options via your new establishment other than a new Ohlins shock? (I havn't ruled that out, but will need to be sensible with the expenditure on a 10yr old Suzi).

[Robert Taylor]

Yep tried a Hagon on the Daytona, (money wasted IMHO).
Couldn't believe how basic and harsh it felt. (worse than the original in many ways).

Also have read about the Busa swap out, but will read a bit more.
Thanks for the input guys.:cool:
Robert, are there any other options via your new establishment other than a new Ohlins shock? (I havn't ruled that out, but will need to be sensible with the expenditure on a 10yr old Suzi).

I will print off the relevant spec card for that model and see if I have enough second hand parts ( that are otherwise perfectly servicable ) to build an Ohlins shock at a more affordable cost. Then report.

[Robert Taylor]

The katana ,which has an almost a replica frame to the bandit,is usually swaped out for a Hyabusa rear shock (because it gives full adjustability at prices even lower then oem bandit shocks) or like mentioned above gsxr750 shocks.

Id go for one off ebay for about $220 NZD and put that on ,their has been only priase over in the states for the Hyabusa conversion ,which is no more difficult than swapping out the oem shock. Im in the process of doing it myself with a shock off an 08" busa,only im doing the front end aswell :niceone:

I have re-read my own post about care that should be taken when fitting different shocks into bikes. I thought the advice given was helpful and precise and not to any degree vague and dramatic??????????

Anyway, relevant to this post it has to be acknowledged that the Hirebus shock has a base length 10mm longer than that of the Bandit. That may be an enhancement but some riders may not like the feel. Take care and be mindful that much info in forums can be woefully inaccurate.

Now also to be informative about the vague and VERY misleading big lie of the western world........''full adjustability'' Well, displacement type shock absorbers have their compression adjusters arranged through the flow path into the reservoir. That flow is generated solely by shaft displacement and represents only between 12-13% of the total damping force. So in truth the adjustability provided by that compression clicker is in fact very narrow and VERY undeserving of that flattering title ''full adjustability'' And if the basic internal damping character of the shock is unsuitable for the donor bike then no amount of external adjustability is going to make it right.

[HornetBoy]

Anyway, relevant to this post it has to be acknowledged that the Hirebus shock has a base length 10mm longer than that of the Bandit. That may be an enhancement but some riders may not like the feel. Take care and be mindful that much info in forums can be woefully inaccurate.

Now also to be informative about the vague and VERY misleading big lie of the western world........''full adjustability'' Well, displacement type shock absorbers have their compression adjusters arranged through the flow path into the reservoir. That flow is generated solely by shaft displacement and represents only between 12-13% of the total damping force. So in truth the adjustability provided by that compression clicker is in fact very narrow and VERY undeserving of that flattering title ''full adjustability'' And if the basic internal damping character of the shock is unsuitable for the donor bike then no amount of external adjustability is going to make it right.

Yea thats actually the main reason other then (increased adjustability) that people have swaped the oem bandit and katana shocks over as it raises the rear and in response to this lowered or raised the front accordingly which equals out the increased rear height.But for katana and bandit 600 thats what alot of the people seeking rear shock swaps want ...quicker/faster turn in

[Robert Taylor]

Yea thats actually the main reason other then (increased adjustability) that people have swaped the oem bandit and katana shocks over as it raises the rear and in response to this lowered or raised the front accordingly which equals out the increased rear height.But for katana and bandit 600 thats what alot of the people seeking rear shock swaps want ...quicker/faster turn in

Thanks, thought as much.

[Robert Taylor]

Having just carried out due diligence in comparing the Ohlins specs for Bandit shocks over the years I have found that the 98 model has a shock length of 296mm and 2000 year onwards 319mm. So the Hirebus shock is in no way suitable for the 98 model. Triboy, it is possible to build the shock at a fixed longer length as required or with an external ride height adjuster

[tri boy]

Awesome Robert.:wari:
I did some base sag measurements with Karen on the bike, (and the usual unladen, and off the ground measurements). Laden sag, both front and rear are over 60mm!, and both ends are very mushy.
I'll email weights and riding style/ adj requirements to you so over the next 2-3months I can get it sorted for her. (bike only cost me $2500, so a suspension upgrade is affordable).
More nights in the cold garage for me:cold:

[F5 Dave]

Just to dip a meagre oar in the water with regards to shock swaps etc. In my limited experience with a friend’s Bandit (1200 this time) & my RF it would appear that Suzuki had a penchant in this era to fit very soft springs, (as Yamaha seemed to be keen on in the forks of their 80s models). Crude damping aside there is little that can be done to overcome a fundamental problem like this without the correct spring rate - or somewhere even near it!

I’d warrant that the swappa shocks may have been a perceived improvement by raising the rear ride height – either by having a longer length or if lucky a stiffer spring. That aside all bets are off. Anecdotally I would bet that most of these bikes would be improved considerably by just fitting the correct springs in the first place. Yes they will still have the crude std & likely wearing out dampers, but at least they won’t be dragging their sorry asses on the ground & steering like a chopper as they are on the bump stops, especially with a pillion, a very dangerous position if a large enough bump is hit.

Both RF & Bandit improved dramatically with stiffer springs both ends & a refreshening of oil. Damping wasn’t overpowered, however they still remain at the crude end of performance. Compared to my other bikes which either started with decent equipment of have had valving kits they are poor at best & given more money or the will to decide whether to keep my RF I would save & spend the money.

[Robert Taylor]

Just to dip a meagre oar in the water with regards to shock swaps etc. In my limited experience with a friend’s Bandit (1200 this time) & my RF it would appear that Suzuki had a penchant in this era to fit very soft springs, (as Yamaha seemed to be keen on in the forks of their 80s models). Crude damping aside there is little that can be done to overcome a fundamental problem like this without the correct spring rate - or somewhere even near it!

I’d warrant that the swappa shocks may have been a perceived improvement by raising the rear ride height – either by having a longer length or if lucky a stiffer spring. That aside all bets are off. Anecdotally I would bet that most of these bikes would be improved considerably by just fitting the correct springs in the first place. Yes they will still have the crude std & likely wearing out dampers, but at least they won’t be dragging their sorry asses on the ground & steering like a chopper as they are on the bump stops, especially with a pillion, a very dangerous position if a large enough bump is hit.

Both RF & Bandit improved dramatically with stiffer springs both ends & a refreshening of oil. Damping wasn’t overpowered, however they still remain at the crude end of performance. Compared to my other bikes which either started with decent equipment of have had valving kits they are poor at best & given more money or the will to decide whether to keep my RF I would save & spend the money.

Those assumptions are very reasonable, yes. Where it goes pear shaped is if a shock is attempted to be fitted that has a very stiff spring rate and damping attuned to a very lazy motion ratio. I.e to a model that has a very aggressive motion ratio. This sort of nonsense happens very often and youve got to wonder how many people have been maimed or killed though the inability to ask the right questions of the right people.

[erik]

I have re-read my own post about care that should be taken when fitting different shocks into bikes. I thought the advice given was helpful and precise and not to any degree vague and dramatic??????????

First, you emphasized the level of care required as "Extreme". Then at the end you had a blanket statement that the SV1000 shock was "totally" unsuitable in all the points you listed and that "the bike would be unstable and a danger to its rider and other road users."
To me it seems you are over-emphasizing the level of care required and also the danger of trying (assuming it fitted) the SV shock.

Vague is because while you listed several points to be aware of when swapping shocks, you didn't say how the SV1000 shock compared to the bandit shock on any of those points, just that it was "totally unsuitable".

I hope that explains my post.

[Robert Taylor]

First, you emphasized the level of care required as "Extreme". Then at the end you had a blanket statement that the SV1000 shock was "totally" unsuitable in all the points you listed and that "the bike would be unstable and a danger to its rider and other road users."
To me it seems you are over-emphasizing the level of care required and also the danger of trying (assuming it fitted) the SV shock.

Vague is because while you listed several points to be aware of when swapping shocks, you didn't say how the SV1000 shock compared to the bandit shock on any of those points, just that it was "totally unsuitable".

I hope that explains my post.

I apologise for having high standards and being concerned about the safety of riders and other road users in their immediate vicinity. No intentions about being vague but I guess everyone has a different interpretation of the body language of typed text! I assure you of only having the most honourable intentions.

[HTFU]

Why would you buy one straight out of the UK when there is a NZ distributor with backup infrastructure, empolying and looking after our own?

Who ? British spares or Eurobike or is it someone else ? how the hell would the average person know who sells what here ? I tried an internet search for Hagon in New Zealand and all I got was two names that had non existent web links and emails that after 2 weeks had no replies. I am all for buying here but how do I do that ?

And anyway read my post "point of reference for anything here". It was to give Triboy a dollar value for a shock I had been given a price for and since he had stated it was an older bike, price was a major consideration of what the upgrade would be. If there was a NZ distributor with a website that had an email link that worked then would have given him that too.

http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/wdaustralasia.htm

So who is the NZ distributor for hagon - British Spares or Eurobike or both ?

[98tls]

Why would you buy one straight out of the UK when there is a NZ distributor with backup infrastructure, empolying and looking after our own? Because maybe they have no idea you exist Robert,long before i knew KB existed my computer time was spent on an overseas based website dedicated to pretty much the bike i ride.Since coming across KB i at times when out with mates who ride as most of them do have mentioned you and your business and not one has ever heard of you.Not having a crack at all and fully respect your skills but if people dont know who you are there not likely to send buisness your way i guess.Its pretty obvious your good at what you do to me by following posts on KB but theres a shitload of guys out there who ride bikes passionately but buy suspenders bits overseas because they either think its cheaper or dont know of people such as yourself.

[98tls]

Who ? British spares or Eurobike or is it someone else ? how the hell would the average person know who sells what here ? I tried an internet search for Hagon in New Zealand and all I got was two names that had non existent web links and emails that after 2 weeks had no replies. I am all for buying here but how do I do that ?

And anyway read my post "point of reference for anything here". It was to give Triboy a dollar value for a shock I had been given a price for and since he had stated it was an older bike, price was a major consideration of what the upgrade would be. If there was a NZ distributor with a website that had an email link that worked then would have given him that too.

http://www.hagon-shocks.co.uk/wdaustralasia.htm

So who is the NZ distributor for hagon - British Spares or Eurobike or both ? Fwiw yonks ago i bought a rear damper unit off Hagon,i got it direct from England as believe it or not it was slightly cheaper (even with absurd postage costs) to do that than go through Aussie,Peter Leech was the guy i dealt withmailto:sales@hagon-shocks.co.uk seemed a good bloke and even bothered to ring me from England to see what i thought.

[tri boy]

I think it is fair to say that the industry (all after market products) in NZ does have a sporadic "scatter gun" approach to product advertising, and mainly leave it up to the local bike shops to push the brands that their wholesalers stock.
Case in point is Quasi's leathers. Until joining KB, I had never heard of Brett's gear, and pretty much grouped all leather goods into a cloudy picture related to imported Aussie/Asian manufactured goods. (glad KB opened my eyes).

But because our population is minimal, maybe a comprehensive structured accessory industry is difficult to fund/organise. There are literally thousands of bike products out in the international that we kiwi's will never see being passed across the counter.
What is the best way to approach this? Buggered if I know. "Just in Time" delivery management with an efficient NZ website fronted by the main players?

A tricky situation in deed. MHO

[98tls]

I think it is fair to say that the industry (all after market products) in NZ does have a sporadic "scatter gun" approach to product advertising, and mainly leave it up to the local bike shops to push the brands that their wholesalers stock.
Case in point is Quasi's leathers. Until joining KB, I had never heard of Brett's gear, and pretty much grouped all leather goods into a cloudy picture related to imported Aussie/Asian manufactured goods. (glad KB opened my eyes).

But because our population is minimal, maybe a comprehensive structured accessory industry is difficult to fund/organise. There are literally thousands of bike products out in the international that we kiwi's will never see being passed across the counter.
What is the best way to approach this? Buggered if I know. "Just in Time" delivery management with an efficient NZ website fronted by the main players?

A tricky situation in deed. MHO Fwiw most blokes i know who ride also spend on bike mags,to be honest i dont know if RT advertises in them or not but i buy plenty of them and dont recall seeing an ad,if he does maybe a better one is needed.

[tri boy]

After setting up the damper rod forks for sag etc, (and finding the previous owner had the shock spring on the softest preload position:oi-grr:,and only 22psi rear and 20psi front in the hoops, I took it for a squirt up the road, (mainly to try my new Quasimoto boot cut leather pants:2thumbsup, awsome bit of kit), I have the following conclusions:
The rear dampening is shite,
The Scrambler fork springs (less than 2k old before changed out for an RT set up) feel pretty bloody good. (they are a straight/linear wind of approx4.4mm wire). With a fork strip n clean, and fresh oil, I think they will be OK, until after I get the Ohlins shock, then, when I save a bit more money RT can do the emulator gig on them.
With cable ties around the tubes, they are using approx 95mm of travel under heavy(but not extreme braking). They may need a little bit machined off the spacer, (5mm) to get the unladen sag spot on, and alleviate any possibilty of "top out" if the wheel enters a pothole.
So thats about it. Robert, I'll be in touch further about the shock spec's for karen, and postpone the fork mods till after winter.
(oh, the little 600 engine is a peach, damn they can rev n go for a mild tuned engine) Kanny better watch her demerit points:lol: