Tyres (sigh) Hornet 919 - M3s?

[AllanB]

Ah another 'what tyre' thread :dodge:

The original fitment Hi-Sport rear is on its way out on my Hornet, who knows where Honda got these from as they are a dated tyre. Anyway - they have handled well and stuck fine for my riding. The tyre shop tells me they are on the sticky side. I'll get just over 6k out of the back (more please next time!).

After much asking around I have been recommended by several suppliers to try the Metzeler Sportec M3. I will be replacing both rear and front this time.

Apparently the M3 is a nice sticky tyre that preforms well for sporty and touring duties in all seasons and weather. Sounds good to me. I spend weekends fanging around the hills and enjoy a coast to coast run in the warmer weather. Consider my riding speeds as smack in the middle of the bunch. Small chicken strips are fine by me ;)

So who has run the M3's - what did you think for road riding and how durable were they?

[jrandom]

The M3s are the perfect tyre for wet and dry road riding. I used them on a GSX-R750 and a GSX-R1000 K2.

I'd be using them on my current GSX1400, but I've been told that on heavy, torquey bikes, they tend to wear out very quickly, so I've gone with Michelin Pilot Powers, which have a reputation for lasting better under such abuse. You won't have that concern on your Hornet.

How long they last is entirely dependant on how you ride on them. I'd say you should expect anywhere from 5,000 to 10,000km from a rear. Highway pootling and commuting will give you twice the mileage you'll get from 'playing' and trackdays, etc. (Or thrice or four times the mileage, actually.)

The only shortcoming you'll notice with the M3s is that the rear will be more ready to slide out on the power when riding quite quickly (at, say, trackdays) than if you were using Pilot Powers.

Having used both, I'd say that the M3s offer superior road-feel to the Pilot Powers. You might end up spinning the rear a little sooner, but you'll know exactly what's happening from start to finish.

PPs have a very 'glassy' feel to them. They grip really well at road pace, but you have to learn to just trust them without being able to tell how far away they are from letting go. The Metzelers don't have that shortcoming.

I can't comment on the M3s in comparison to Dunlop or Pirelli road tyres, because I haven't tried those brands.

[TerminalAddict]

I have used M3's .. I got 6901kms out of it before metal started showing through !!!

I can attest to the fact they slide rather than "let go"

I'm now wearing a Z6 .. good grip, take longer to heat up than the M3, much more life .. I've done 7000kms on my current Z6, and have maybe another 6000 left

edit: .. I was running a Metzeler Z6 / M3 combo .. and it felt great
I've now got a Metzeler Z6 / M1 combo (the M1 was VERY cheap !!) .. but more importantly . .I drop front profile to 55 .. and I've since found the edge of my front .. never done that before

[nallac]

I to have been wondering what to run on my Hornet next.......
I decided to follow the K's lead and use Contis road attacks

Im importing them from states.

[Gremlin]

Zapf had M3's fitted to his hornet, but if my recollection is correct, he found them too sticky, and made the suspension do too much work... meh

Me, I run strada's or pilot roads, hit the peg feelers pretty much when I want to, and get more than 10k out of them, with just about every single k done in city use, stop start, etc. Can't fault them grip wise.

Granted, rear suspension is ohlins (love it) but its extremely difficult to get it to break traction without being a complete idiot. Only time I had a decent slide was when I flicked the bike from one side to the other, unloaded the rear wheel, and stomped on the rear brake... in the rain. :niceone:

[AllanB]

Ah crap – they can be too sticky?

Motorcycle tyres – they give me the shits, everything rides on them for the next 6-10,000 kms so you want to get it right.

Plus you want something sticky but predictable that hopefully lasts a year or so!

And the suppliers I talk to also say unless you are buying for the track they are all much a muchness!

[pritch]

I tried BT020s on the Hornet, didn't like them in the wet.

Tried Metzellers next and have run Z6s since with no problems.

It all comes down to how many kilometres you do and how much money you have to play with. Doing 20,000K or thereabout would be using three sets plus of sports tyres a year which is a bit rich for me and would negatively impinge on my wine ration.

Any of the major brands of sport touring tyres should do it for you but the Z6s are fine.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ah another 'what tyre' thread :dodge:

The original fitment Hi-Sport rear is on its way out on my Hornet, who knows where Honda got these from as they are a dated tyre. Anyway - they have handled well and stuck fine for my riding. The tyre shop tells me they are on the sticky side. I'll get just over 6k out of the back (more please next time!).

After much asking around I have been recommended by several suppliers to try the Metzeler Sportec M3. I will be replacing both rear and front this time.

Apparently the M3 is a nice sticky tyre that preforms well for sporty and touring duties in all seasons and weather. Sounds good to me. I spend weekends fanging around the hills and enjoy a coast to coast run in the warmer weather. Consider my riding speeds as smack in the middle of the bunch. Small chicken strips are fine by me ;)

So who has run the M3's - what did you think for road riding and how durable were they?

Mine is presently running Pirelli Diablo Corsas which I really like. They've lasted well too. My recommendation is go see Don at Cycletreads, see what he says.

I dont have any peg feelers left or right, and knee down is not a problem (on a track day obviously). these are predictable stable and yet have fast turn in, and sticky as. ...... theyve lasted OK too... like 4000k on the rear and its not stuffed yet.

[mouldy]

I have used M3's .. I got 6901kms out of it before metal started showing through !!!

I can attest to the fact they slide rather than "let go"

I'm now wearing a Z6 .. good grip, take longer to heat up than the M3, much more life .. I've done 7000kms on my current Z6, and have maybe another 6000 left

edit: .. I was running a Metzeler Z6 / M3 combo .. and it felt great
I've now got a Metzeler Z6 / M1 combo (the M1 was VERY cheap !!) .. but more importantly . .I drop front profile to 55 .. and I've since found the edge of my front .. never done that beforem3's rock , good feedback and turn in from the front , where did you get a 55 profile front from as far as I am aware ( and i am fairly up to date on things black and round) you only get 60 ,65 , and 70 profile fronts ?

[jrandom]

Ah crap – they can be too sticky?

Sounds like bollocks to me.

:blink:

I just changed from Pilot Road 2s to Pilot Powers on the GSX1400 because I wanted a stickier front.

The way the front 'feels' can be pretty subjective (yes, I *heart* my new PP 2CT front very much) but I've definitely noticed that at the same pace, same corner, same throttle input, the PR2 rear would spin up and slide out a few inches whereas the PP rear just hooks up and shoots the bike straight, no mucking about.

Sticky sport tyres just gotta be good for you (while the rubber lasts...)


unless you are buying for the track they are all much a muchness!

That's bullshit.

[AllanB]

Any of the major brands of sport touring tyres should do it for you

The more I ask the more I think the above - however all the dealers are pro a sport front, but for my riding its probably overkill. Peg scrapers are still intact.

Those dual compound PR2 sound sweet but we have had such an issue getting stocks in CHCH I'd rather use a brand that is easily available. Then again when the next set are due there will be something else available...

[TerminalAddict]

m3's rock , good feedback and turn in from the front , where did you get a 55 profile front from as far as I am aware ( and i am fairly up to date on things black and round) you only get 60 ,65 , and 70 profile fronts ?

quite right !!! I mis-remembered :)
its a 60 .. I just went and had a look

the down side = head shake from the 60 profile front

[wharfy]

I've just started racing my Hornet in VMCC winter series. I am using conti sport attacks. I never got near there limits on the road (and probably haven't on the track I'm about 10 seconds of the pace in clubmans :-) The only "moments" were when I have stuffed up the down shift. I have rear-sets so the first thing to touch is the side stand bracket on the left (the stand is not there).
In the wet I am a nanna so havn't tested them there. They warm up fairly quickly (no tyre warmers) and are pretty sticky. I am still dicking with pressures - a few pounds either way makes a huge difference. I will stay with them till I figure out what I can do on them.

From what I have discovered so far to get them to let go on the road you would need to be doing something mental.

I have just been reading an article (loaned to me by Richards Motor Cycles in J'ville :-) from a British bike mag and they tested about 8 different tyres on an 08 Blade and the difference in lap times was F&*K all.
I suspect that the assertion that unless you are on the track the difference is not great is correct. But I've still got a lot to learn.

[Macstar]

Hmmm. Third set of tyres on the Hornet in 10K. Chewed through the original ones in about 6k too (even with breaking in the new engine). I agree the original tyres were ok too. Then I got a 1/3rd worn Contintental something 190 wide and that died in about 3ks... Now I have the Michellen Pilot Tp4 or some crap (the dual compound ones). I am on the fence with these as the rear let go a half dozen or so times on the Coro Loop the other day in the wet when powering out of corners and once on a straight under medium/high acceleration in 5th gear.

I had the old M1s on my Suzduki and they were awesome. Heard good things about M3s too.

My take for what it's worth: Get sticker tyres for more grip. If they wear faster so be it, safety first!

[jrandom]

I suspect that the assertion that unless you are on the track the difference is not great is correct.

Ride the same bike on a wet road with Bridgestone BT020s and Michelin Pilot Road 2s, and you won't be able to repeat that with a straight face.

Different tyres can give very different ride qualities.

I think the differences tend to be more noticeable when it comes to wet grip than dry grip, though.

Although I think I already commented that the dry grip level difference on M3s and Pilot Powers isn't noticeable unless riding at track pace, so I guess that means there's some truth in your suspicion.

[wharfy]

Ride the same bike on a wet road with Bridgestone BT020s and Michelin Pilot Road 2s, and you won't be able to repeat that with a straight face.

Different tyres can give very different ride qualities.

I think the differences tend to be more noticeable when it comes to wet grip than dry grip, though.

Although I think I already commented that the dry grip level difference on M3s and Pilot Powers isn't noticeable unless riding at track pace, so I guess that means there's some truth in your suspicion.

I'm a real pussy in the wet - I had a couple of "moments" when I first got the Hornet with the rear spinning on smooth tar (not used to the HP even though it is modest by todays standards) so I am VERY cautious now :(

[jrandom]

I'm a real pussy in the wet - I had a couple of "moments" when I first got the Hornet with the rear spinning on smooth tar...

Did it come stock with BT020s? Those things are a menace in the wet.

If so, I'm not surprised you got the shits put up you. My GSX1400 came with those things on - I took them off and threw them away a week later.

[avgas]

I haven't found a perfect tyre yet - but i found the M3's and Pirelli's "Go-Off" too quickly. So if they are still on the bike after 1 year you have to flick them as the rubber goes hard.
Dunno why.

[mouldy]

I haven't found a perfect tyre yet - but i found the M3's and Pirelli's "Go-Off" too quickly. So if they are still on the bike after 1 year you have to flick them as the rubber goes hard.
Dunno why.

Your tyres last a year ? Get out and ride the bloody thing !

[wharfy]

Did it come stock with BT020s? Those things are a menace in the wet.

If so, I'm not surprised you got the shits put up you. My GSX1400 came with those things on - I took them off and threw them away a week later.

Yep ( 7 more )

[jrandom]

Yep ( 7 more )

Don't let the abysmal performance of BT020s put you off riding in the wet.

Other tyres perform very well on wet roads - my current Pilot Powers being an example. Nary a squiggle, even when feeding the 1400 a few berries.

The 020s, in comparison, were downright dangerous.

[nallac]

Don't let the abysmal performance of BT020s put you off riding in the wet.

Other tyres perform very well on wet roads - my current Pilot Powers being an example. Nary a squiggle, even when feeding the 1400 a few berries.

The 020s, in comparison, were downright dangerous.

A mates got 020's on his zx9r has got no complaints with em, there again
he rides like ya great granma. Chicken strips a mile wide.
I had to ask him did he stop at corners and push it around them.

I love my pilot sport in the wet, pity i've killed it doing burnouts
a big step up from the tyres that were on my sporty
even the fuct front diablo hasn't caused me any moments.

[jrandom]

020's on his zx9r

Oh dear.


no complaints with em, there again
he rides like ya great granma. Chicken strips a mile wide.

Yeah, you'd have to. I stand by my comment that they're dangerous.

Just north of Mokau in the rain five days after I picked up the GSX1400, I had a fuckoff big two-wheel slide across a bit of shiny tar that the bike in front of me, on Pilot Powers, barely noticed.

And then a wee while later on SH3 to Wangas I had the rear spinning up in a straight line at 100kph for no particular reason.

Not that bad in the dry, but dangerously low grip in the wet.

Friends don't let friends ride on Bridgestones!

[kiwifruit]

If i had a hornet i'd put m3s on it. Magnificent at most things. One of the best in the wet.

[jrandom]

Magnificent at most things. One of the best in the wet.

Although I've heard that it is still possible to highside on them.

:pinch:

[Blackbird]

Friends don't let friends ride on Bridgestones!

JR is definitely not letting emotion get the better of him!

Whilst the BT020 has never been all that popular on Blackbirds in NZ, they were a standard fitment for a short while in the UK and from reports on the UK 'bird site, people walked away from them in droves because of indifferent wet weather performance, largely going with Avon Storms or Pilot Powers.

In parting, I've extracted a piece of information off the 'bird site from Bridgestone on the BT020. The "standard" 020 flexed with the heavier performance bikes and some uprated 020's were developed with more robust casings. For those with 020's on heavier bikes, it's important that they are the types with the suffixes shown below:

Up until mid 2002 Bridgestone approved the 'standard' version of the BT-020 front and rear for fitment for the Honda CBR1100XX, in other words, tyres with no suffix letters. During early 2002 our development
riders undertook testing on various bikes using various OE specification tyres. OE tyres are modified versions of the general replacement tyre and are designed to optimise the handling of the bike they were
developed for. The W-spec front tyre was originally developed for the Kawasaki ZRX1200S and the L-spec rear was originally developed for the ZRX1200R. Our test riders realised that the handling attributes of these specific tyres would also have benefits when used on other bikes. With
the CBR1100XX the W front and L rear have increased the bike's high-speed stability over the 'standard-specification' tyres. Because of this we superseded the 'standard' recommendation with the 'W and L' recommendation.

Interestingly enough, the Avon Azaro developed a similar path and the Azaros with a "B" suffix were developed for the big performance machines until largely superseded by the Storm.

Hope that helps in the knowledge stakes.

[AllanB]

Great - tyres within tyres now! So not all are the sae even if the same brand name etc!

Something I do find interesting and here's an example recommended by a supplier on the phone yesterday - stick a PR2 on the rear and a Psport on the front - whats wrong with a front PR2 I ask, as it has the sticky side tread and presumably made to run as a pair. That's fine I'm told but with the sport you know its sticky.

Interesting is the sport tread has no resemblance to the PR2 tread. Apparently not an issue.

I think it is going to come down to the deal I can get on whatever is available the day I book them in.

[Blackbird]

Great - tyres within tyres now! So not all are the sae even if the same brand name etc!

Something I do find interesting and here's an example recommended by a supplier on the phone yesterday - stick a PR2 on the rear and a Psport on the front - whats wrong with a front PR2 I ask, as it has the sticky side tread and presumably made to run as a pair. That's fine I'm told but with the sport you know its sticky.

Interesting is the sport tread has no resemblance to the PR2 tread. Apparently not an issue.

I think it is going to come down to the deal I can get on whatever is available the day I book them in.

Yep, it's a complicated old world! That recommendation you got is not unlike my own present position. I've been an Avon Storm fan since they were released in NZ at the beginning of 2007. I enjoy "pressing on a bit" on the odd occasion but would cheerfully admit that I've never really found the limits of adhesion on the Storms apart when conditions were extreme and would have challenged any tyre. However, when the Avon importer offered me the opportunity to evaluate a sticky Avon Viper Sport on the front for free, I jumped at it. The Blackbird has a reasonable amount of forward weight bias which does load up the tyre and I figured that whilst the Storm front was fine for my riding capabilities, the Viper might offer just a touch more grip in an "oh shit" moment.

The only question is how long will it last and you might face the same issue. As long as it lasts as long as the rear hoop, I'll be happy.

Tyres are the last thing you should skimp on, but it does depend to some extent on what you ride and how you ride. A Viper Sport rear hoop would only last 3000-4000 km on the Blackbird and that's simply not warranted for my "fitness for purpose".

[AllanB]

I had a chat to Christchurch's tyre guru at lunchtime.

He suggested keep the Hi-Sport on the front until its worn as they are a sticky tyre.
Put a Pilot Road on the rear (well priced too) to replace the worn back Hi-Sport.

When I want to replace the front go for a Pilot Sport or Power.

I end up with a nice sticky front with a medium good lasting rear. (must be a joke in there :lol:)

Or I could replace both with anything I please and he'd be happy to accept payment :laugh:

Then again those Storms sound nice..........

Its nice to deal with someone who is happy to offer advise even if it is possibly at their short term cost. Long term they will win in repeat business.

[nallac]

i know two guys running pilot roads(not pr2's) one a sv1000 the other on a hornet, both have had moments in the wet with them.

the hornet riders a fast/mad rider from what i've heard
the mate on the sv has only just got it and had a bad moment on the nice slick seal.
He wants to know how the contis work out for me,(long story on the shipping)
he had pilot sports on his TLR.

[AllanB]

He sighs and continues his quest.............:wacko:

I did run contis (road rear, sport front) on my previous bike a GS1200ss - they were great but the only thing that has stopped me doing this on the Hornet so far is I found the tyre profile quickens the handling - this was excellent and well received on the GS, but I don't think its necessary on the Hornet.

Mind you anything feels quicker when you replace a worn or part worn front.

[nallac]

you can't go wrong with just about any of the above mention tyres,
excepting the 020's.

Just buy what tickels ya fancy and can get for a good price.

Thats why i'm getting the contis, good price and look good.
i'll find out about the handling, wear rate etc when i've got em.

[ritchtheitch]

two questions on the M3's - what's the profile like - round or more that sharper triangle style that drops you into a corner quite fast? (don't like that..!) And who does the deals on these in Auckland?

I have the the Bridgestone 021 on the z750, and find them okay in the wet, although to be honest I'm largely commuting with only brief moments of freedom in the weekends..

And who does Avons at good prices in Auckland?

[Chrislost]

two questions on the M3's - what's the profile like - round or more that sharper triangle style that drops you into a corner quite fast? (don't like that..!) And who does the deals on these in Auckland?

I have the the Bridgestone 021 on the z750, and find them okay in the wet, although to be honest I'm largely commuting with only brief moments of freedom in the weekends..

And who does Avons at good prices in Auckland?

M3s are a sport tyre.
they last a bit better then pilot powers, and have near enough the same profile.

get some Pilot Road 2cts, they are slightly softer and more pointed than the Bridgestone 021s.