Is this for real?

[98tls]

Mt Maunganui officially handed back to local Maori.:lol:Got to be a wind up:crazy:surely.They actually owned it at some stage?Must check and see if any of my relies owned some mountains in Germany.

[ajturbo]

thought that was handed back (?)years ago...???

[Steam]

They actually owned it at some stage?
Course they did. I don't know if you noticed, but they owned the whole country before Europeans came visiting. Just like we would have if we'd gotten here first or conquered them. But we didn't, we signed a binding treaty with them in return for letting us settle here. It was a good treaty for both sides, until the government started breaking it and ignoring it. Now it's payback time.

[Brett]

Great. So more NZ land can now go left unattended and end up covered in gorse. Happened to a shit load of other land around NZ where it was taken from a farmer or DOC who were managing the land, and it has gone backwards.

[PirateJafa]

Course they did. I don't know if you noticed, but they owned the whole country before Europeans came visiting. Just like we would have if we'd gotten here first or conquered them. But we didn't, we signed a binding treaty with them in return for letting us settle here. It was a good treaty for both sides, until the government started breaking it and ignoring it. Now it's payback time.

Well I want our fucking muskets, blankets and knowledge back then. They can have their traditional land and fishing grounds back, if they settle, farm and fish it in their traditional manner. Like with wakas, spears, hangis and fucking mud huts.

Blow them to be perfectly honest - we are one country now, not a "working class" and a "bludging class".

And before you jump out saying "you rascist Jafa you obviously don't know any Maori people", I have a number of Maori friends, pretty much all of whom are sick of the gravy train, who have never seen, or had any benefit from a cent of the millions in "settlement money" paid out over the years, and do not believe they will ever in the future either.

What a load of bollocks.

Where the hell is the party that will remove this mild form of segregation from our country?

You can bitch all you want about "but they need the help because their standards of living are lower" etcetera, but this is bollocks. If they truely need the help, then a proper system of government would help them regardless of their ethnicity. The system needs to be based more on need, and less on lineage.

[/rant]

[mark247]

Well I want our fucking muskets, blankets and knowledge back then. They can have their traditional land and fishing grounds back, if they settle, farm and fish it in their traditional manner. Like with wakas, spears, hangis and fucking mud huts.

Blow them to be perfectly honest - we are one country now, not a "working class" and a "bludging class".

And before you jump out saying "you rascist Jafa you obviously don't know any Maori people", I have a number of Maori friends, pretty much all of whom are sick of the gravy train, who have never seen, or had any benefit from a cent of the millions in "settlement money" paid out over the years, and do not believe they will ever in the future either.

What a load of bollocks.

Where the hell is the party that will remove this mild form of segregation from our country?

You can bitch all you want about "but they need the help because their standards of living are lower" etcetera, but this is bollocks. If they truely need the help, then a proper system of government would help them regardless of their ethnicity. The system needs to be based more on need, and less on lineage.

[/rant]

amen

10charcters

[Slyer]

Well I want our fucking muskets, blankets and knowledge back then. They can have their traditional land and fishing grounds back, if they settle, farm and fish it in their traditional manner. Like with wakas, spears, hangis and fucking mud huts.

Blow them to be perfectly honest - we are one country now, not a "working class" and a "bludging class".

And before you jump out saying "you rascist Jafa you obviously don't know any Maori people", I have a number of Maori friends, pretty much all of whom are sick of the gravy train, who have never seen, or had any benefit from a cent of the millions in "settlement money" paid out over the years, and do not believe they will ever in the future either.

What a load of bollocks.

Where the hell is the party that will remove this mild form of segregation from our country?

You can bitch all you want about "but they need the help because their standards of living are lower" etcetera, but this is bollocks. If they truely need the help, then a proper system of government would help them regardless of their ethnicity. The system needs to be based more on need, and less on lineage.
[/rant]
Fucking truth.

[325rocket]

Where the hell is the party that will remove this mild form of segregation from our country?


that would have been Don Brash. Unfortunately they dumped him because he couldnt get into the go kart.

[98tls]

thought that was handed back (?)years ago...??? Came across it on teletext last night.

[Steam]

that would have been Don Brash. Unfortunately they dumped him because he couldnt get into the go kart.


Fucking truth.


amen
10charcters


Well I want our fucking muskets, blankets and knowledge back then...


Cool, well if you want home-grown terrorist groups and another hundred years of upset and controversy, that's the right attitude.

Good on ya kiwis! Stumbling heedlessly toward disaster, as ever.

[BIGBOSSMAN]

Well I want our fucking muskets, blankets and knowledge back then. They can have their traditional land and fishing grounds back, if they settle, farm and fish it in their traditional manner. Like with wakas, spears, hangis and fucking mud huts.

Blow them to be perfectly honest - we are one country now, not a "working class" and a "bludging class".

And before you jump out saying "you rascist Jafa you obviously don't know any Maori people", I have a number of Maori friends, pretty much all of whom are sick of the gravy train, who have never seen, or had any benefit from a cent of the millions in "settlement money" paid out over the years, and do not believe they will ever in the future either.

What a load of bollocks.

Where the hell is the party that will remove this mild form of segregation from our country?

You can bitch all you want about "but they need the help because their standards of living are lower" etcetera, but this is bollocks. If they truely need the help, then a proper system of government would help them regardless of their ethnicity. The system needs to be based more on need, and less on lineage.

[/rant]

Word.

10characters

[PirateJafa]

Cool, well if you want home-grown terrorist groups and another hundred years of upset and controversy, that's the right attitude.

Good on ya kiwis! Stumbling heedlessly toward disaster, as ever.

Sorry what?

The separatist attitude that you had been displaying is what has been pushing NZ towards the sorry state it is in, Steam.

I fail to see how encouraging a unified country and people thereof could possibly encourage "home-grown terrorist groups and another hundred years of upset and controversy". The bludging section of the population will always complain when their free-loading ways are curtailed. Because they might suddenly have to, you know, "work".

So essentially you are saying that this "settlement money" that we have been paying is actually "protection money" to stop them going radical?

[Steam]

Sorry what?

The separatist attitude that you had been displaying is what has been pushing NZ towards the sorry state it is in, Steam.

I fail to see how encouraging a unified country and people thereof could possibly encourage "home-grown terrorist groups and another hundred years of upset and controversy".

So essentially you are saying that this "settlement money" that we have been paying is actually "protection money" to stop them going radical?

Ignoring the treaty is illegal. Plain and simple. So if you want your government and all European presence in this country to be founded on a lie, and at the expense of an entire race of people we made a treaty with, then that's fine.

It's not okay to say "hey, sign this bit of paper, then we'll all be friends"
"ok" says most of the Maori, "sounds good to us, better you than the French." and signs.
"HAHA, FOOLED YA!" says Europeans, and steals the land, usurps sovereignty.

That's what you are suggesting.
Despite the way we'd like things to be, this is the way things are.

The treaty is legally binding, between one race and another. We are not one nation, one race of people. You may like to think that, but it's wishful thinking.

[Patrick]

Course they did. I don't know if you noticed, but they owned the whole country before Europeans came visiting.


Weren't the Moriori here first???????? "Invaded" by Maori, who came 2nd, then white man comes along 3rd? And who pays whom??????

What have the Moriori got now? Ummmmm

Here we go - another race thread.....

[98tls]

Ignoring the treaty is illegal. Plain and simple. So if you want your government and all European presence in this country to be founded on a lie, and at the expense of an entire race of people we made a treaty with, then that's fine.

It's not okay to say "hey, sign this bit of paper, then we'll all be friends"
"ok" says most of the Maori, "sounds good to us, better you than the French." and signs.
"HAHA, FOOLED YA!" says Europeans, and steals the land, usurps sovereignty.

That's what you are suggesting.
Despite the way we'd like things to be, this is the way things are.

The treaty is legally binding, between one race and another. We are not one nation, one race of people. You may like to think that, but it's wishful thinking. Yea but who benefits from all this land being given back and 1/2 billon $ payouts,i dont that i can understand but funnily enough i am yet to meet a single Maori bloke that has.Certainly none of the guys i work with has seen a cent of it nor any of the blokes ive ever talked to down the local boozer on a friday night has ever had a letter in the mail telling them congrats you are the proud part owner blah blah.Somebody must but who?

[Patrick]

Yea but who benefits from all this land being given back and 1/2 billon $ payouts,i dont that i can understand but funnily enough i am yet to meet a single Maori bloke that has.Certainly none of the guys i work with has seen a cent of it nor any of the blokes ive ever talked to down the local boozer on a friday night has ever had a letter in the mail telling them congrats you are the proud part owner blah blah.Somebody must but who?

Tainui investied in the Warriors League Team... Now that was money well spent.... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Accountability only applies to .... Ummmm...... Oops....:bash:

[smokeyging]

Weren't the Moriori here first???????? "Invaded" by Maori, who came 2nd, then white man comes along 3rd? And who pays whom??????

What have the Moriori got now? Ummmmm



Arrmmmm......No heads?..........

[Zuki Bandit]

All this pc bullshit and special treatment does is build walls between races. Fair enough, be aware of what has happened in the past but there will be no moving forward as a nation if one race gets special rights over another.
And as for ownership of a country? What a load of fuckin shit.

[Steam]

Weren't the Moriori here first???????? "Invaded" by Maori, who came 2nd, then white man comes along 3rd?
Nah, people used to think the Moriori were a completely different race, but archaeological stuff and research and shit showed they were just another tribe of Maoris.
Certain sectors of the European population like to keep the myth going that the Moriori were another race, in order to make themselves feel better about fucking over the Maori.
"Ah the Maori kicked the Moriori's arses, so what's wrong with us doing it to the Maori, eh?"

[98tls]

Nah, people used to think the Moriori were a completely different race, but archaeological stuff and research and shit showed they were just another tribe of Maoris.
Certain sectors of the European population like to keep the myth going that the Moriori were another race, in order to make themselves feel better about fucking over the Maori.
"Ah the Maori kicked the Moriori's arses, so what's wrong with us doing it to the Maori, eh?" So it must be a myth that they were given 6 millon 2 weeks ago for research.

[PirateJafa]

Tainui investied in the Warriors League Team... Now that was money well spent.... NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Accountability only applies to .... Ummmm...... Oops....:bash:

Zigactly. You can only shake your head in dismay.


Weren't the Moriori here first???????? "Invaded" by Maori, who came 2nd, then white man comes along 3rd? And who pays whom??????

What have the Moriori got now? Ummmmm

Unfortunately Patrick, the "Moriori were wiped out out by the savage Maori" story is almost certainly just a popular urban legend.

However, the other points are still valid.

Hell, we have treated (pampered?) the "indigenous" people (God I hate speaking like we are separate races, rather than "New Zealanders") more than most countries throughout the world. North Americans, Aboriginesyou name it the list goes on. All royally fucked over. The Maori have had it light in comparison. Hell, they have damn near won the Lotto in comparison.

Sure, it was wrong. But it has been well and truely paid back. And holding grudges never did anyone any good.

I'm sure you'd love our country to turn into Zimbabwe v2.0 Steam.

[Steam]

So it must be a myth that they were given 6 millon 2 weeks ago for research.

There's some of them still around, they're not all wiped out. Descended from Ngai Tahu apparently, they went to the Chathams about the year 1500.

[mark247]

Nah, people used to think the Moriori were a completely different race, but archaeological stuff and research and shit showed they were just another tribe of Maoris.
Certain sectors of the European population like to keep the myth going that the Moriori were another race, in order to make themselves feel better about fucking over the Maori.
"Ah the Maori kicked the Moriori's arses, so what's wrong with us doing it to the Maori, eh?"

Well that is kinda a weak arguement. New Zealanders and Australians are the same race also, so if they come over and wipe us out, that is just fine?

[Steam]

Sure, it was wrong. But it has been well and truely paid back.
That's really easy to say when you're on the top of the pile, and less easy to say if every day you see the grandchildren of thieves living on the land their grandfathers stole from you.
No, there's still hundreds of thousands of hectares of land that was illegally confiscated.

[ajturbo]

Came across it on teletext last night.
dam... my ESP is playing up again...
(wow you have hit a sore note for some people..hahahaha)

[PirateJafa]

That's really easy to say when you're on the top of the pile, and less easy to say if every day you see the grandchildren of thieves living on the land their grandfathers stole from you.
No, there's still hundreds of thousands of hectares of land that was illegally confiscated.
Or maybe not. I've had to work my arse off to put myself through university with no student debt and no outside help (scholarship, family etc), so now I'm a working man, I'm happy to reap a bit of what I spent so many years planting.

How many Maori do you actually know Steam? Are you just a armchair-activist? Because that is what you sound like. Speaking from personal knowledge and experience, I do not know a single Maori who is resentful and whinges about "stolen land" etc. Those who are willing to put in a day of hard work Monday to Friday get rewarded for it. They lead successful, moderately happy lives (which is all any of us can ask for), and pretty much unanimously agree that those who are willing to work, thrive. And I have seen the truth of this.

It's all in your attitude. You want to bludge and freeload, then you bitch. You want to work and better your lot, then you improve.

You just need to be willing to put a bit of work in, and that is the crux of the issue.

[Max Preload]

Cool, well if you want home-grown terrorist groups and another hundred years of upset and controversy, that's the right attitude.

They're too bone idle to ever get organised enough to be a terrorist threat.

[98tls]

dam... my ESP is playing up again...
(wow you have hit a sore note for some people..hahahaha) Seems so,bit of red shit being flung my way:crybaby:really devastated :laugh.Since time began people have been making agreements breaking agreements conquering others blah blah blah so what makes what happened here so special? Its real easy for people to sit and tap out racist blah blah blah,nothing to do with it i dont give a fuck what colour/race someone is i want to know like i just said whats so special about what happened here and who benefits from all the hand outs,every Maori i know says the same thing "not me"

[firefighter]

Course they did. I don't know if you noticed, but they owned the whole country before Europeans came visiting. Just like we would have if we'd gotten here first or conquered them. But we didn't, we signed a binding treaty with them in return for letting us settle here. It was a good treaty for both sides, until the government started breaking it and ignoring it. Now it's payback time.

yep, and they ate the people who owned it before them

[Steam]

Or maybe not. I've had to work my arse off to put myself through university with no student debt and no outside help (scholarship, family etc), so now I'm a working man, I'm happy to reap a bit of what I spent so many years planting.

How many Maori do you actually know Steam? Are you just a armchair-activist? Because that is what you sound like. Speaking from personal knowledge and experience, I do not know a single Maori who is resentful and whinges about "stolen land" etc. Those who are willing to put in a day of hard work Monday to Friday get rewarded for it. They lead successful, moderately happy lives (which is all any of us can ask for), and pretty much unanimously agree that those who are willing to work, thrive. And I have seen the truth of this.

It's all in your attitude. You want to bludge and freeload, then you bitch. You want to work and better your lot, then you improve.

You just need to be willing to put a bit of work in, and that is the crux of the issue.

That's very nice.
None of which changes the fact that a treaty was signed, a treaty was broken, and land which was stolen hasn't been returned to the original owners.

It's so profoundly simple. It's as simple as Hone getting his car stolen;
"Hey, you stole my car! Give it back!" says Hone.
No matter how many people have the opinion that bygones should be bygones, and we should all forgive and forget and be "one people, one nation", Hone's car is still stolen, someone else is still driving it, and it is crystal clear from the legal documents and history that it is Hone's car.

[98tls]

yep, and they ate the people who owned it before them When they finished eating them they actually started eating each other for awhile,when living in Wellington i took the trip over to some Ilse (Kapiti maybe) forgotton the name as it was yonks ago but anyway i remember the Maori bloke taking us round it telling of a huge battle there in which they feasted on the losers afterwards.:wacko:

[Steam]

Seems so,bit of red shit being flung my way:crybaby:really devastated :laugh.

That's dumb, people should argue instead of giving reds. Wasn't me!

[98tls]

That's very nice.
None of which changes the fact that a treaty was signed, a treaty was broken, and land which was stolen hasn't been returned to the original owners.

It's so profoundly simple. It's as simple as Hone getting his car stolen;
"Hey, you stole my car! Give it back!" says Hone.
No matter how many people have the opinion that bygones should be bygones, and we should all forgive and forget and be "one people, one nation", Hone's car is still stolen, someone else is still driving it, and it is crystal clear from the legal documents and history that it is Hone's car. Yea but think of all the weight hes managed to lose walking all these years.:yes:

[Naki Rat]

Cool, well if you want home-grown terrorist groups and another hundred years of upset and controversy, that's the right attitude.

Good on ya kiwis! Stumbling heedlessly toward disaster, as ever.

And yours is exactly the attitude that is seeing good, honest, ambitious Maori head across the Tasman, and further afield, in droves to somewhere they aren't tarred with the same brush as those of their race that have a serious chip on their shoulder and a snout in the public trough!

This is the twenty first century so look forward not back, and try to keep up with the rest of us.

[Slyer]

So the Europeans fucked the Maoris over, you talk about it like it's the first time that's ever happened!
Would it make a sense to give random people all over Europe free land because what the Romans took? No it wouldn't make sense because firstly the Romans are all fucking dead and secondly because they don't owe anyone shit even if they were immortal.
Ever heard of that thing called War? It's always fair and never fair at the same time, invasions of other countries is never fun for the country that gets invaded but that's what you get for being weak.

The Romans that took their land are all dead and no longer own the land, the EXACT same thing goes for the Europeans that took land from the Maoris.
Lets assume that the Romans signed a treaty saying that they wouldn't take any land from the other Europeans, but they do it anyway.
You'd say it's fair to give land back to the Maoris but wouldn't be fair to take land from random people in Europe, right? Because that was a long time ago and the current people living there have no connection to the Romans, right? Where do you make the distinction between the two invasions? The only difference is time, but where do you draw that line between where they should get their land back and tough shit it was a long time ago? 10 years? 100 years? 1000? years? Never? Tell me the logic for your decision.

Also the Maoris are lucky they weren't utterly destroyed, which they would have been eventually if it weren't for that treaty. Complete equality + some special treatment? I'd say they got a pretty fucking good deal.

[ajturbo]

Also the Maoris are lucky they weren't utterly destroyed, which they would have been eventually if it weren't for that treaty. Complete equality + some special treatment? I'd say they got a pretty fucking good deal.
and now go get a job like the rest of us..!!!( i can say that now as i have a job...)

[Sanx]

The Romans that took their land are all dead and no longer own the land, the EXACT same thing goes for the Europeans that took land from the Maoris.
Lets assume that the Romans signed a treaty saying that they wouldn't take any land from the other Europeans, but they do it anyway.
You'd say it's fair to give land back to the Maoris but wouldn't be fair to take land from random people in Europe, right? Because that was a long time ago and the current people living there have no connection to the Romans, right? Where do you make the distinction between the two invasions? The only difference is time, but where do you draw that line between where they should get their land back and tough shit it was a long time ago? 10 years? 100 years? 1000? years? Never? Tell me the logic for your decision.

My home town in the UK is a shithole called Colchester. Among the things the town's slightly well-known for (other than being the only place to be mentioned by name in George Orwell's 1984 as being the target of a nuclear strike. Obviously Mr Orwell had visited the town...) is the fact that it was the first Roman capital of England. At the time, the local Celtic tribe were the Iceni, based around 40km north on the banks of the river Orwell (hmm - odd coincidence!) roughly where Ipswich now is.

When the Romans landed, they signed a non-aggression / protection treaty with the Iceni promising Rome's friendship and protection in return for a yearly payment of slaves and food. All was fine until the Iceni king was thrown from his horse and died. His wife, Queen Boudicca (or Boudicea, if you prefer the Roman spelling and pronounciation) took over the throne but as the treaty had been signed by the king, the Romans assumed the agreement to be null and void.

During a feast following a meeting between the Queen and the local Roman Tribune, a fight broke out between the Roman soldiers and some of the Iceni tribesmen, resulting the Romans having their arses soundly kicked. So they came back a few days later with slightly greater numbers, ransacked the Iceni's town, salted the lands (rendering them infertile), hung the Queen up by her ankles from a convenient tree, stripped her then whipped her, and then raped her two daughters (estimated to be aged about 14 and 10 at the time) for good measure.

Unsurprisingly, the Queen was just a little miffed at this and sent out a cran-tara, a stick charred on one end and dipped in goat's blood on the other. It was a call to war to the other Celtic tribes in the region. The powerful Norfolk-based tribe, the Trinovantes (sp?) responded first, given that the former Iceni King was one of them. Other tribes joined together and they went on a bit of a killing spree. They burned Colchester to the ground, killing most of the inhabitants (around 30,000 at the time) before herding the survivors into the temple the Emperor Claudius had had built to honour himself, then piled pitch-soaked brushwood around the place and set fire to it.

They then headed to Londinium, already Roman Britain's centre of trade and commerce, and ransacked that. That, of course, was after they'd ambushed an under-strength 9th Legion and virtually wiped them out to the last man. Next target was Verulamium (St Albans) which suffered the same fate, though by now the Roman inhabitants had fair warning and many of them had already fled.

By now, the Roman governor of Britain, Suetonius, had begun to get a handle on things and force-marched the 2nd Legion from Isca Dumnoniorum (near Exeter) to meet the Celtic army in the forests near St Albans. Not helped by the desertion of half her army (they'd given the Romans a pasting and wanted to go home, by all accounts), the Celtic army came up against a well-ordered, but much smaller, force who had used the local geography to their advantage. In the resulting battle, some 80,000 Celts died for the loss of just 400 Roman soldiers. (The report comes from Tacitus, a Roman chronicler, so figures are likely to be highly innaccurate.) Following the defeat, Boudicca took her own life, and if her daughters survived, they too disappeared from history at this point. The Romans' revenge was pretty terrible. Iceni and other tribes who took part were slaughtered and the remainder sold into slavery. Though it would take another generation, Boudicca's death led the way to the complete Romanisation of the province.

So what's the point in this rather extended history lesson? Well, there was a treaty. It too was dishonoured by the dominant power at the time.

Does this mean I, as a native of Iceni lands, can now seek compensation from the Romans? I wasn't around at the time, sure, but that doesn't seem to stop any current-day Maori from demanding money, land and extra privilege.

Of course it doesn't. And there is fuck-all justification in historical terms for 90% of the settlements now being handed out to every Iwi that demands them. They're kiwis, pure and simple, and should be treated no differently to any other kiwi of whatever racial background.

[Sanx]

Weren't the Moriori here first???????? "Invaded" by Maori, who came 2nd, then white man comes along 3rd? And who pays whom??????

What have the Moriori got now? Ummmmm

Here we go - another race thread.....

The issue of whether or not the Moriori were here first, or devolved from the Maori population as a whole, is unknown. The commonly-held belief that they were here prior to Maori and were wiped out or displaced by Maori, thus negating any tangata whenua-based claims, has since been revised with the common thinking that Moriori settled just the Chatham Islands at the same time as the Maori settled New Zealand. Their physical and genetic simlarity to Maori makes analysis of bones very difficult, so no-one actually knows. What is absolutely certain is that the virtual extinction of the Moriori was primarily caused by Maori invasions of the Chathams. Although the population declined once whitey turned up with their exotic diseases and started hunting the seals that formed a large part of the Moriori's diet, the biggest decline came from massacre at the hands of Taranaki Maori. In 1835, two ships carrying 900 armed Maori arrived in the Chathams. The Moriori were enslaved or slaughtered. Moriori were forbidden to marry or breed with other Moriori. Between 1835 (whitey arrived in 1791) and 1862, the population declined from 2000 to only 101 full-blooded individuals. The last full-blooded Moriori died in 1933.

The confiscation of the Chathams and the slaughter and enslavement of its inhabitants was acceptable according to Maori culture at the time. They saw nothing wrong with it. To my knowledge the Iwi responsible for the Chatham invasion (Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama) have never apologised for their actions, let alone paid out compensation. Should such acts have been carried out by whitey on Maori, you can be certain there'd be numerous claims for substantial compensation.

[Steam]

...where do you draw that line between where they should get their land back and tough shit it was a long time ago? 10 years? 100 years? 1000? years? Never?

I dunno. I reckon at least 150 years is a good number. How about you? 10 years? 100 years? 1000 years? Never?

[Sanx]

I dunno. I reckon at least 150 years is a good number. How about you? 10 years? 100 years? 1000 years? Never?

What a convenient number. Plucked out of thin air, was it?

Surely "lifetime of the complainants" would be a little fairer to all concerned.

[Slyer]

Depending on the situation I'd say immediately or never.

[PirateJafa]

What a convenient number. Plucked out of thin air, was it?

Surely "lifetime of the complainants" would be a little fairer to all concerned.

I can imagine it now. In 148 years time, suddenly the headlines will read:

"Great-great-great-grandchildren of Louise Nicholas are now demanding $40mil from the great-great-great-grandchildren of Clint Rickards for a rape that happened 150 years ago. More at 11."

[Patrick]

Unfortunately Patrick, the "Moriori were wiped out out by the savage Maori" story is almost certainly just a popular urban legend.

Funny claim that you make there, since it is a claim I retell from Moriori descendants... Depends who one speaks to ay?


Nah, people used to think the Moriori were a completely different race, but archaeological stuff and research and shit showed they were just another tribe of Maoris.
Certain sectors of the European population like to keep the myth going that the Moriori were another race, in order to make themselves feel better about fucking over the Maori.
"Ah the Maori kicked the Moriori's arses, so what's wrong with us doing it to the Maori, eh?"

Again - Moriori descendants think otherwise. When does the loser in any battle get any real say in the headlines? When I last looked, the Moriori weren't a part of the "European population" making shit up to make themselves feel better, although they remain adamant that they were first here....

As for your last sentence - another way to look at it, perhaps, is what is good for the goose, should be good for the gander?

Move on... The Moriori did, but it appears they too might have their hand out now....

Just how many "pure blooded" Maori are there? Most seem to have a British ancestry which is now denied nowadays - like Ken MAIR, Joe HAWKE, just to name a few... Denied why? Could money have something to do with it??? Dunno - just putting it out there -

[peasea]

Weren't the Moriori here first???????? "Invaded" by Maori, who came 2nd, then white man comes along 3rd? And who pays whom??????

What have the Moriori got now? Ummmmm

Here we go - another race thread.....

And what about the Dutch? Or even the Spanish? Where are the aliens? I think we should wind up the economy, pay out everything we have, declare NZ bankrupt and start over.....on an even keel. See who survives in the REAL world, a world without handouts, benefits and dodgey grants.

[PirateJafa]

Funny claim that you make there, since it is a claim I retell from Moriori descendants... Depends who one speaks to ay?

Please note my quantifier! ;)

[Patrick]

And what about the Dutch? Or even the Spanish? Where are the aliens? I think we should wind up the economy, pay out everything we have, declare NZ bankrupt and start over.....on an even keel. See who survives in the REAL world, a world without handouts, benefits and dodgey grants.

More like, was the chicken or the egg first?

Like the "reset button" call though ...

[Patrick]

Please note my quantifier! ;)

I did - not a dig at ya, just a point on that point only....:hug:

[peasea]

More like, was the chicken or the egg first?

Like the "reset button" call though ...

So many people truly think that life HAS a reset button, which is the sad part.

[Robert Taylor]

Course they did. I don't know if you noticed, but they owned the whole country before Europeans came visiting. Just like we would have if we'd gotten here first or conquered them. But we didn't, we signed a binding treaty with them in return for letting us settle here. It was a good treaty for both sides, until the government started breaking it and ignoring it. Now it's payback time.

Its an inconvenient truth that actually they werent the first ones here...........

[sAsLEX]

Ignoring the treaty is illegal.

The treaty is legally binding, between one race and another. We are not one nation, one race of people. You may like to think that, but it's wishful thinking.

A lot of people on this site were issued " Lifetime " licenses. Funny thing happened a few years back, they changed the law. Guess why? As they realised the old one was outdated.

Hell, not too long ago you could go abo hunting. And guess what? They changed that law as well!

When will finally take a step forward and realise that NZ is approaching the 21st century and we need to move on?

[kiwifruit]

oLlRKA_YrHU

[firefighter]

IMO I think the european (which probably makes up more than 65% of the blood of the maori who have made claims) part of those who have recieved money/land etc should pay my little bit of maori in me, my share of the handouts........I bet that is hard to decipher but when you figure out what I mean you'll realise it's all bulshit, there's no full blooded maoris and they ALL have EUROPEAN ancestry somewhere......so theoretically they themselves owe themselves land!..... and me some land!! so we can all sit a circle passing documents to each other, becuase somewhere in all our bloodwork we all "owe" each other land!!!! because really, now no-one is entitled to fkn anything other than what's already done, and what youvé paid the title for....AND to the di*ks who think they are owed something......you owe your parents......why? because they have more maori in them than you do!!! :lol::motu:

[EJT]

there's no full blooded maoris and they ALL have EUROPEAN ancestry somewhere......

Shit - the Royals mustn't be able to call themselves English because of their German blood. How many pure Scots are there? Or Irish? On your reasoning do they have a right to call themselves Scots etc?

As for those moaning about 150 years having passed - Maori have been fighting for 150 years for justice. Not their fault it took so long. And as usual the crap about Tainui and the Warriors gets dragged up again. No mention that Tainui is doing really well at the moment - or that countless billions more of taxpayer money has been spent bailing out BNZ, Air NZ, NZ Rail, Think Big.... Or does race only come into play when dodgy business decisions involve Maori.

[sAsLEX]

Or does race only come into play when dodgy business decisions involve Maori.

Nah, the Cook Islanders are raping our tax money as well..........

[98tls]

Shit - the Royals mustn't be able to call themselves English because of their German blood. How many pure Scots are there? Or Irish? On your reasoning do they have a right to call themselves Scots etc?

As for those moaning about 150 years having passed - Maori have been fighting for 150 years for justice. Not their fault it took so long. And as usual the crap about Tainui and the Warriors gets dragged up again. No mention that Tainui is doing really well at the moment - or that countless billions more of taxpayer money has been spent bailing out BNZ, Air NZ, NZ Rail, Think Big.... Or does race only come into play when dodgy business decisions involve Maori. I see your point but (again) can someone tell me who is benefitting from the land being given back and all the payouts,once again this thread wasnt started as some kind of racial fuck fest i just want to know who benefits cause ive met plenty of Maori in my time and not one has seen a cent.

[inlinefour]

That's very nice.
None of which changes the fact that a treaty was signed, a treaty was broken, and land which was stolen hasn't been returned to the original owners.

It's so profoundly simple. It's as simple as Hone getting his car stolen;
"Hey, you stole my car! Give it back!" says Hone.
No matter how many people have the opinion that bygones should be bygones, and we should all forgive and forget and be "one people, one nation", Hone's car is still stolen, someone else is still driving it, and it is crystal clear from the legal documents and history that it is Hone's car.

Hey Bro! Hone brought that car from the Pakeha and now that he has got the land back that he used to pay for it, you still think he deserves the bloody car back??? :buggerd:

[sAsLEX]

Here is a question for Steam.


Have you ever climbed Mt Tarawera?

[avgas]

That's really easy to say when you're on the top of the pile, and less easy to say if every day you see the grandchildren of thieves living on the land their grandfathers stole from you.
No, there's still hundreds of thousands of hectares of land that was illegally confiscated.
Ain't war grand - kinda sux that it didn't end that way.
While i do understand your reasoning, and i agree anything the govt can do to help them out would be great............... its the classic "not in my back yard" thing.
I would be a very cold dark day in hell before i handed my land to anyone, so i understand the hard feelings. But likewise i would be the bigger man and move on - have done in the past and will in the future.
So no i do not support whiners. There are too many Maori out their that have moved on and made a life for themselves - regardless of what happened to their forefathers. How to you tell them their struggle was in vain?

[avgas]

Does this mean I, as a native of Iceni lands, can now seek compensation from the Romans? I wasn't around at the time, sure, but that doesn't seem to stop any current-day Maori from demanding money, land and extra privilege.
It will never stick - your not black enough.......name a white race that claimed they were hard done by, underdog if you will and actually got compensation. Shit if it worked that way my family could have claimed for over 1000 years of hardship from the high and mighty of Europe. Seeing as my family name (since it was written) directly translates to slave.

[The Pastor]

i'd rather all the money that goes to the maori go into a fuel subsidy. that way every one wins :)

[98tls]

i'd rather all the money that goes to the maori go into a fuel subsidy. that way every one wins :) Cant burn em its not PC.

[The Pastor]

Cant burn em its not PC.
What about at guy fawkes?

[Steam]

Here is a question for Steam.


Have you ever climbed Mt Tarawera?

Yeah, back in the day, in the 1980's. You can't any more eh, because the tribe who owns the land has closed it. That sucks. That kind of thing shouldn't be allowed.
If you are European you aren't allowed to cross onto the Whale Rider beach either. Bad bad. Just angry people using what little power they have I guess.

[Slyer]

They closed it! That's lame as.

[Sanx]

Yeah, back in the day, in the 1980's. You can't any more eh, because the tribe who owns the land has closed it. That sucks. That kind of thing shouldn't be allowed.
If you are European you aren't allowed to cross onto the Whale Rider beach either. Bad bad. Just angry people using what little power they have I guess.

Which is all the justification one needs to cease handing over any land to these parasites.

[Steam]

I'd just like to thank everyone in this thread for being quite civilised. It's nice to have a proper argument but not have it collapse into insults.

[imdying]

The Crown needs to come back and finish the job properly this time.

[-df-]

All I can say is...why are we not getting our blankets and guns back????

[vifferman]

Have you ever climbed Mt Tarawera?
I've ridden up it twice - the first time on a CB175 (well.. OK, I didn't quite get all the way up), and the second time on an MT250, which I had a fine olde time riding around on top. :niceone:
And I've driven up once in a Land Rover too.

By the way - Mount Maunganui (which is a dumb name, as "maunga" basically means mount anyway) has been called "Muauo" for years now - its original name. For those of you who find that impossible to pronounce, just do what I do: moo like a cow, or call it "The Moan", as that's what it sounds like. :rolleyes:

[Lias]

How many Maori do you actually know Steam? Are you just a armchair-activist? Because that is what you sound like. Speaking from personal knowledge and experience, I do not know a single Maori who is resentful and whinges about "stolen land" etc.


I know a few .. Thou in all fairness I know far more who arn't like that. But even alot of the ones who arnt out trying to grab land still harbour alot of resentment to the crown/government.

[Finn]

While I don't think the handing over of Mt Manganui will affect any white folk, I am concerned about a recent article from a University Law Professor that was along the lines of... the settlement process will never end. We've heard stories about a moving due date for all settlements but this chap was saying that the settlements can be challenged using the basis that the negotiators didn't have the right to settle.

Oh boy.

[firefighter]

Shit - the Royals mustn't be able to call themselves English because of their German blood. How many pure Scots are there? Or Irish? On your reasoning do they have a right to call themselves Scots etc?

As for those moaning about 150 years having passed - Maori have been fighting for 150 years for justice. Not their fault it took so long. And as usual the crap about Tainui and the Warriors gets dragged up again. No mention that Tainui is doing really well at the moment - or that countless billions more of taxpayer money has been spent bailing out BNZ, Air NZ, NZ Rail, Think Big.... Or does race only come into play when dodgy business decisions involve Maori.

No matter what I write your going to twist it like a woman........I didn't say they weren't maori, just not full blooded read it again douche. Fkn sick of the whinging shit-just proves that there's so much bloody pom in all of us.....by the way I haven't heard of the royal family claiming land back in Germany......dick.......I never in my post said that anybody can't say theyr'e maori, in fact, fuck it, i'm a maori........iv'e got about a fingernail of it in me somewhere and i'll choose that eh?

[Patrick]

... And as usual the crap about Tainui and the Warriors gets dragged up again. No mention that Tainui is doing really well at the moment -


I see your point but (again) can someone tell me who is benefitting from the land being given back and all the payouts,once again this thread wasnt started as some kind of racial fuck fest i just want to know who benefits cause ive met plenty of Maori in my time and not one has seen a cent.


EJT missed my point... Crap?? Yes the Warriors are...

98tls got it in one. A fat few in Tainui get to see the $$$, not the average Joe, thats for sure......

[sAsLEX]

Yeah, back in the day, in the 1980's. You can't any more eh, because the tribe who owns the land has closed it. That sucks. That kind of thing shouldn't be allowed.
If you are European you aren't allowed to cross onto the Whale Rider beach either. Bad bad. Just angry people using what little power they have I guess.

Another question.

Maori are the only people represented solely in Govt.


So seeing govt. votes and passes law relating around the treaty what way are the Maori seats going to vote? Isn't that a bit dodgy? I mean whats the point of a democracy if some people are more equal than others?

[firefighter]

Yeah, back in the day, in the 1980's. You can't any more eh, because the tribe who owns the land has closed it. That sucks. That kind of thing shouldn't be allowed.
If you are European you aren't allowed to cross onto the Whale Rider beach either. Bad bad. Just angry people using what little power they have I guess.

Sounds pretty bloody RACIST to me...........Maybe I should put a sign up on my lawn saying...........

NO MAORIS!!!!!
NEW ZEALANDERS ONLY!!!!!

Although apparently that would be racist.....funny how it's only racist when one division of our people are being singled out.....but fine for the rest of us to be treated like we aren't New Zealanders.

[Finn]

98tls got it in one. A fat few in Tainui get to see the $$$, not the average Joe, thats for sure......

Don't you mean Rangi?

[Patrick]

Don't you mean Rangi?

Nah... Joe... the ones not denying their European heritage...

[ajturbo]

Sounds pretty bloody RACIST to me...........Maybe I should put a sign up on my lawn saying...........

NO MAORIS!!!!!
NEW ZEALANDERS ONLY!!!!!

Although apparently that would be racist.....funny how it's only racist when one division of our people are being singled out.....but fine for the rest of us to be treated like we aren't New Zealanders.
just remove the

"NO MAORIS"
and you will be fine...

[Mountlocal1]

Well...

This is a topic me and my late Grandfather used to discuss alot and I stress I dont consider either of us to be raciest.. Heres a few things we used to discuss.

1) Personally Ive seen / experienced more racial abuse from Maori directed at Europeans then the other way round.
2) Why is there a Maori party? There isnt a white european party?? Isnt that raciest?
3) Why do Tribes only seem to claim back either prime real estate or developed forestry land? That may just be my perception due to media etc.
4) How the hell can ANYONE "own" the seabeds/rivers/fish in the sea?????
5) Why is it easier for a person of Maori decent to join the Police force?
6) Why do people of Maori decent get special grants?

I havnt meet a working Maori person in my 31 years who beleives they have been mistreated. I have however meet more then I can count benificiaries who sit on their arse bitching and complaining with their hands out.

It is up to the individual to make their lives better.. Thru hard work not hand outs where not deserved.

The only reason it is still going on is because our government doesnt have the balls to put a stop to it.

We are ALL New Zealanders. People need to stop focusing on what has happened in the past and focus on the future. How about some of the millions of dollars in tax payer money given to the Iwi is spent educating youth and providing for families in genuine need. Maori or not.

Gasp... Thats my 2c worth anyway.

P.s.... Where is the love?

[firefighter]

5) Why is it easier for a person of Maori decent to join the Police force?


and fire service ..........:bs::psst:

[Spyke]

If only the french had landed on gud ol un zed first then they more than likely wouldn't have signed a treaty and would have used exterminator method instead lol.

(I don't mind maori, I just hate people claiming something thats everybodies)