250GP Class?

[Bishy]

Hi guys and girls.
Must be some kind of mid-life crisis but I'm thinking of throwing my leg over a race bike again for a bit of fun - track days/club racing etc.
Now, production bikes kind of don't do it for me anymore and the most satisfying bikes I have ever raced were purpose built 125 and 250GP bikes.
I'm looking at an imaculate 99 Honda RS250R and was wondering what class it would be eligible to run in, and what kind of numbers of 250's are still being ridden?
Are they eligible for pro-twins? how do they go against a hot SV650?
Pardon my ignorance but I haven't been to a modern meeting over here in years...
Cheers!

[madkeenandy]

you'd end up running with with the superbikes and 600s, as the 250gp class in NZ is pretty much dead.

It would be competitive if you're a talented rider

But its a two stroke, so its awesome (and sexy)
so BUY IT

[k14]

A 250GP bike would crap all over a SV650 in any state of tune , a 250GP is closer to a 600 in terms of laptimes. In world championships (I know its not really applicable to nz racing) but a 250GP bike is faster than a world supersport bike.

In NZ, a 250GP bike is eligible for F2, which is predominately 600's. With a decent rider they are capable of top 5 pace but depends on which track you're on. No they are not allowed in the pro twin class, that is solely for four strokes. I don't think there is anywhere that has a class just for 250GP anymore, but there may be the odd event where they are allowed.

[Kevin G]

I think it would be great to see the 250GP class return to NZ road racing, just look how good the 125's are with so many young guns in the class.
Certainly would get my support, I am waaaay too big for my 125 and I would be into a 250 like a pig in shit.

[Badjelly]

I don't think there is anywhere that has a class just for 250GP anymore...

Why did this class wither away? Whereas 125GP still seems very healthy.

[Kevin G]

It was killed off due to low numbers in the last nationals it was run at and the rule makers killed it.

[Maido]

It was a fair call to can it at national level, I recall one grid having 5 bikes starting the year before it was canned.
Having peddled one round for about a year and a half I can agree that they were certainly good fun and easy to ride. What I found was neat was that as long as you had the suspension in "the ball park" you could cut competitive lap times, where as on a 600 suspension is paramount. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing.
The way you can just biff them into the corners is outstanding, they are so light to muscle around!

John got the NZ 250 cc flying 1/4 record a few years back on a tz, i think he clocked 264km which is certianly right up there with the national level 600's at the same time (they are most probably faster now, I haven't done a flying 1/4 in a while)

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've owned and raced an RS250. Buy it, you'll wet yourself. I did.

[malcy25]

It would be competitive if you're a talented rider

Haha!! Hey Nige (Bishy), how fast did you go around The Isle of Man again?

250GP unfortunately not much happening....mostly club stuff these days.

Talk to MDL he may have some good contacts for getting one somewhere, he turns up with that sort stuff out of the blue.

Al

[koba]

Moto Acedemy are running one in F2 (and F1 cross entry) ridden by sketchy racer on this forum.

The first time he rode the bike he did damn well dicing with some thous in F1 so its not like you would be totally without a place to race one if you got it.

[k14]

Why did this class wither away? Whereas 125GP still seems very healthy.
The big disincentive seems to be the running costs. The increase from a 125 to a 250 is more than double. They go through engine components just as fast, and there is 2 pistons to deal with (one of the most consumable parts) and add to that the tyres don't last as long. Along with chains etc due to the extra hp just adds up to a big bill. Still cheaper than 600's by a long shot though. It is a real big pity, I'd love to have a go on one. Being 6 foot tall doesn't really make me idea for the 125 class but I make do. :2thumbsup

[Badjelly]

It was killed off due to low numbers in the last nationals it was run at and the rule makers killed it.


It was a fair call to can it at national level, I recall one grid having 5 bikes starting the year before it was canned.


The big disincentive seems to be the running costs. ... Still cheaper than 600's by a long shot though. It is a real big pity, I'd love to have a go on one.

So, a lot of people seem to like them but few people were willing to actually race them, in the last few years at least. Odd.

I believe the Aussie series went the same way. Is there anywhere in the world they're raced, other than MotoGP?

[k14]

So, a lot of people seem to like them but few people were willing to actually race them, in the last few years at least. Odd.

I believe the Aussie series went the same way. Is there anywhere in the world they're raced, other than MotoGP?
They are still raced in limited numbers in europe. The series nearly went belly up last year in the uk but there is now a new british championship which I believe has been getting good attendance. I think that in the last 3 or 4 years the leaps and bounds made in the standard 600's have pushed the 250's out of the market. From a maintenance point of view the 600's are easier for the less mechanically inclined people to jump on and run. They certainly aren't cheaper in the long run though, crashing costs more (the 250's are lighter so dont do as much damage in a drop) and the tyres are a lot more.

[steveyb]

Hey everyone, this guy knows his racing, he has done it a fair bit!! Hey Nige, don't know you but know of you. You survived the nut house that is the Isle!!! I think we may have raced together back in the early 90s in 250Proddy days, not sure.

I own and am running Moto Academy NZ (www.motoacademy.co.nz). Given that I still have my 95/98/02 RS250 we are using it in Moto Academy for a rider that has a bit of experience already and is pretty flash with it (not to give him a big head or anything). Maybe you might be keen to come and give the lads some inspiration????

At the moment in NZ 250GP can run with the clubs in their "F2/Supersport" classes, VMCC, AMCC etc and in "F1/Superbike/Formula Twin/Formula Auckland" classes.
We have lost the 250GP national class due to poor numbers. Even though there are plenty of bikes out there, many are a bit old now and the riders much older, hehehehe. But really 250GP will now be consigned to the annals of history and the enthusiasts clubs.
The Post Classic Assoc in Australia have special classes for them (New Era 4/5 or something of the sort). Early 250's up to 1989/90 eligible for Posties here.
We will hopefully have at least one more 250GP Grand Prix at Ruapuna in January, but we will have to wait and see. When you see the call for interest please get in and let them know so that they will have an idea of numbers.
Glen did really well at Taupo on the RS against mid pack SBK's, 600's and was with most of the 650s on a bike he had ridden for 5 laps previous, had no susp development and a VERY mildly tuned engine.
Blew it up in lap 2 at Manfeild due to my assembly error but this time round we will be all set with a new engine and good cyl heads, so look out all youse fullas.
Be great to meet you at Manfeild 18/19 July of you can make it down if just to say gidday. Be great to have another 250 around, we are currently one of only 2 running (young fulla in Clubbies on a great TZ).
Cheers
Steve Bagshaw

[CHOPPA]

looks like a trick bike!

Another question is 250gp bikes are not allowed in f3 but are aprilia rs250s allowed?

[k14]

looks like a trick bike!

Another question is 250gp bikes are not allowed in f3 but are aprilia rs250s allowed?
Yes, aprillia rs250's are, as are nsr and rgv's. The aprillia is essentially an RGV engine in a better frame. They aren't all that fast, standard I think they are around the 55hp mark, whereas a RS250 in mild tune is around 75-80hp. I'd also be 20-30kg lighter in race trim too.

In reality they are no comparison, the main difference is that the aprillia is a road bike but the others are gp bikes. Not sure on the exact wording but something to do with 250 2-strokes being road derived.

[koba]

"based on a volume production motorcycle that is road leagal in New Zealand"

The rules are basically written to keep GP parts out.

F3 regs are here (http://www.motorcyclingnz.co.nz/download/Appendix_B_Formula_Three_Championship_Regulations. pdf)
Mnz website www.mnz.co.nz has all the rules.

[CHOPPA]

you would think you could make an rs250 aprilia a weapon of a f3 race bike surely less then what the top guys spend on svs... Im surprised theres not a heap of them racing f3 events...

[Crasherfromwayback]

you would think you could make an rs250 aprilia a weapon of a f3 race bike surely less then what the top guys spend on svs... Im surprised theres not a heap of them racing f3 events...

When I was riding 250 proddie...there were plenty of fast 'proddie' bikes out there with plenty of go fast bits in them. My own KR1SP was nearly as fast as my mates ZZR600 he raced...I'm pretty sure you could rule F3 on a 250 2 stroke if you knew what you were doing.

[svr]

When I was riding 250 proddie...there were plenty of fast 'proddie' bikes out there with plenty of go fast bits in them. My own KR1SP was nearly as fast as my mates ZZR600 he raced...I'm pretty sure you could rule F3 on a 250 2 stroke if you knew what you were doing.

Yeah 250 `productions' have done 15s @ manfield - throwing 30k at one (what it costs to build a good sv) would be interesting for sure.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah 250 `productions' have done 15s @ manfield - throwing 30k at one (what it costs to build a good sv) would be interesting for sure.

Yeah flat 16's was the go when I was racing them...so there's plenty of time to drop with some coin/time spent. Who's the man (men) that's entered the 15's? That's going well!

[svr]

Ramage, Ant Young, Brett Richmond all did 15s (on slicks) in 93. I was watching with a broken collarbone from the previous round (levels - thanks mr. young).
For anyone reading `crasher' won a national race at Manfield beating the likes of Dave Cole, Bruce Anstey, Mike McCutchen, Nathan Spargo, Grant Ramage, John Hepburn, Loren Poole, etc. etc.
Back then if you couldnt do 16s on a 250 proddie at manfield you might get 10th.
Unsurprisingly, that class pumped out a bunch of good riders.
A 600 production class would do the same now I reckon.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ahhh..the 'slicks' bit explains that!

[brads]

Giday mate,forget the 250,go and get a 1997 CBR600F and Ill join you on the grid,black and yellow if I remember correct? :niceone:

[Bishy]

Gee there's some old boys lurking around this place eh?
Yep the old 98 CBR600 was a good bike. I should have kept it for a second season but had committed to the 919 and had to sell it.
At Teretonga in the Nationals in F2 I was running it on slicks and having a massive scrap for 3rd with Bruce Anstey on his TZ250, he would be on my arse into the last corner onto the front straight but because it was such a stop/start affair I would get the jump on him with the 600's torque. He would eventually get up into the slip stream and try to go up the inside into that Effing fast left hander off the straight but I would shut the door and it would start all over again! that was until the last lap when he dived up the inside there, seized the motor as he shut the throttle and highsided into my lap... needless to say the poor old Honda ended up cartwheeling through the gravel at 200k... messy!
Aaron Lovell and all the rest of the sidecar boys broke out the zip ties and duct tape and I raced the rest of the meeting, getting 2nd in 600 proddy for my efforts I recall. We celebrated by drinking a couple of bottles of the Filthy Fews home brewed Bourbon in the hotel spa pool then on to the prize giving where we made total dicks of ourselves, my mate/mechanic threatened the boss of Blue Wing for not helping or lending parts we needed even though we were the fastest Honda in the class... Oh dear... If I remember correctly I went to sleep in the shower fully clothed with it running on cold... We then went and stayed at my mates uncles farm in Ashburton while my mate in Hamilton laid up a new set of fairings in our molds over two days, posted them down, we sprayed and stickered them in a hay shed, then made it to Ruapuna in time for that round. Where I promptly Highsided it, had it land on me back with solid pegs and bust my kidneys... raced the rest of the day.... drove overnight to the ferry, then on to Hamilton where my mate dropped me at the front door of the hospital where I spent 2 weeks on me back! Oh the good old days... Why am I interested in getting another race bike again? :confused:

[Maido]

^^ classic! need moar stories please!

[Dave-]

id be keen to race a 250....

[brads]

Gee there's some old boys lurking around this place eh?
Yep the old 98 CBR600 was a good bike. I should have kept it for a second season but had committed to the 919 and had to sell it.
At Teretonga in the Nationals in F2 I was running it on slicks and having a massive scrap for 3rd with Bruce Anstey on his TZ250, he would be on my arse into the last corner onto the front straight but because it was such a stop/start affair I would get the jump on him with the 600's torque. He would eventually get up into the slip stream and try to go up the inside into that Effing fast left hander off the straight but I would shut the door and it would start all over again! that was until the last lap when he dived up the inside there, seized the motor as he shut the throttle and highsided into my lap... needless to say the poor old Honda ended up cartwheeling through the gravel at 200k... messy!
Aaron Lovell and all the rest of the sidecar boys broke out the zip ties and duct tape and I raced the rest of the meeting, getting 2nd in 600 proddy for my efforts I recall. We celebrated by drinking a couple of bottles of the Filthy Fews home brewed Bourbon in the hotel spa pool then on to the prize giving where we made total dicks of ourselves, my mate/mechanic threatened the boss of Blue Wing for not helping or lending parts we needed even though we were the fastest Honda in the class... Oh dear... If I remember correctly I went to sleep in the shower fully clothed with it running on cold... We then went and stayed at my mates uncles farm in Ashburton while my mate in Hamilton laid up a new set of fairings in our molds over two days, posted them down, we sprayed and stickered them in a hay shed, then made it to Ruapuna in time for that round. Where I promptly Highsided it, had it land on me back with solid pegs and bust my kidneys... raced the rest of the day.... drove overnight to the ferry, then on to Hamilton where my mate dropped me at the front door of the hospital where I spent 2 weeks on me back! Oh the good old days... Why am I interested in getting another race bike again? :confused:

Only in F2 mate,if I remember,you, Tracey Downing and myself had a good battle for 3rd overall that year with myself coming out on top by a couple of points.
The night before race day at Ruapuna,some pub in CHCH,I think I was trying to get you pissed and you the same to me,result?,both of us shit faced before GP day :doh:.
Great Days.

[Bishy]

Oh yes, I remember a certain senior Mr Selfe being none too pleased with us that weekend!
You used to punt a 250 in the early days didn't you?
Are you still based in deepest darkest Oamaru?

[brads]

Yeah mate,had a 91 RS250 for a couple of years before getting into the CBR,Yep still here in Oamaru,working for Senior,moved 3 years back to newer bigger shop,www.oamarumotorcycles.co.nz

[kawa10]

hello nigel. i remember you from way back riding a naked fzr250 round bay park. just a young parts guy at robbie deans. what have you been doing with yaself since then?

[Bishy]

Jeez thats a loaded question - are you with the Police?
That FZR was just a get to work shitter, can't remember ever punting that round Baypark but its quite possible, as there were many bikes I thrashed/crashed around that place back in the day! I remember riding someones TDR250 Dual purpose bike around there one day at a training school Tauranga motorcycle club ran... now THAT was fun! kind of like Supermotards but 10 years early.
I moved back to Hamilton from Tga must have been 94/95, got married then built a ZXR400SP F3 Bike. Won Nats 96/7 season then rode TZ250B,D and RS125's at club meets 97/98, did a bit of roadrace coaching with MNZ etc, got a bit of sponsorship from Honda and rode CBR600 and 919 Sports Proddy bikes 98/99. Broke up with missus and moved to Oz late 99, bought a 96 RS125 in Sydney, entered 2000 Isle of Man, me and 3 mates took bike there in suitcases via Bali (another story in itself). Hired a RVF400 road bike in england, and a van and took the whole shooting box over to the island, slept in a tent by the pits, got shitfaced every night and got 17th in Ultralightweight and 12th in 400 race. (managed to win Newcomers award for both races and overall - bonus!). Got picked up by Manx based team to race TT in 01, had no reason to stay in Oz so moved to UK Late 2000. Foot and mouth scare ruined 01 TT so did a few meetings in Ireland/England mainly at pure roads courses, did 2002 TT and managed to get a solid 8th, but death of a friend and a crash in practice kind of put me off the place. Moved back to NZ late 02, hooked up with a friend of a friend, moved up to Whangaparaoa, got into yacht racing (doesn't hurt as much when you fall off but costs just the same) Got Married (again) done a few meetings for Les Delacy on the Rob North Trident post classic bike (mainly Festivals, Sound of Thunder and one trip to Phillip Island). Now have 1st kid on the way, sold the boat as will have the one wage buzz for a while, so I have bought a ZXR250C write off to tinker with and hopefully make enough money off to justify getting a project race bike... so pretty much gone full circle since the FZR250 days 14 years ago except fatter, greyer and no doubt much slower than I remember I was!
Anyone else lurking on these forums from back in the 'good old days'?

[svr]

The good old days are before your time!
Wicked bike cv Bishy.
So relationships, careers, homes, countries etc. may come and go but motorbikes are forever? Onya.

[kawa10]

police where?? :chase:
thats a totally cool write up there. bling for you. racing bikes, drinking booze and woman. :2thumbsup
the only people i see round tauranga from the "good old days" are glen tanner, barry "baz" pratt, the morrell bros and bill vander......???/ however its spelt.
svr. you arnt that "old" :shutup:

[svr]

svr. you arnt that "old" :shutup:

My chiropractor tells me I have the bones of a 64 year old. Too many bay park high sides. Oh happy day when they closed that torture rack (I signed the petition)

[kawa10]

:angry: well im blaming you for me having to drive 2+hrs for me to go for a ride now. it was a bit rough, but hey. helps sort the men from the boys. :Punk: