New Zealand - The right to leave our country

[firefighter]

YOU have the right to LEAVE!

After Wellington not wanting to offend other cultures
by putting up xmas lights. After hearing that we are
going to let Muslim woman have her picture on her drivers
license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by a New Zealand Citizen.
Published in a newspaper.

Quote:

IMMIGRANTS , NOT NEW ZEALANDERS, MUST ADAPT. TAKE IT OR
LEAVE IT!

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some individuals or their culture. I am not against
immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking
a better life by coming to New Zealand. However, there are a
few things that those who have recently come to our country and
apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of New Zealand being a multicultural community has
served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As New Zealanders, we have our own culture, our own society, our
own language and our own lifestyle. Our culture has been developed
over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions
of men and women who have sought freedom, even died for it.

We Speak ENGLISH or MAORI , not spanish, lebanese, arabic, chinese,
japanese, russian or any other lanuage. Therefore if you wish to
become part of New Zealand society, -- Learn the language! "In
God we trust "is our national Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this
nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then
it is recommended that you consider another part of the world as
your new home, Because God is part of our culture.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A FAIR GO",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and
we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, AND OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will
allow you every oportunity to enjoy all this. But once you
are done complaining, whining, and or griping about Our Flag,
Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way Of Life, then you
are Highly encourage to take advantage of one other great
New Zealand freedom.

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"

LEAVE

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you
to come here.

YOU asked to be here. So Accept the country YOU accepted.

Pretty easy really,when you think about it...

Signed: A New Zealander

Bloody Right On!

[DMNTD]

Couldn't agree more

[Finn]

I agree. It's a double edge sword as too many New Zealander's (people actually born here) are leaving because of the PC and social engineering bullshit.

[Brett]

I agree. It's a double edge sword as too many New Zealander's (people actually born here) are leaving because of the PC and social engineering bullshit.

Exactly.

10 chars.

[jrandom]

"In God we trust "is our national Motto.

No, it's not.

Someone did a search-and-replace to change 'The United States of America' to 'New Zealand'.

Did you read that bullshit before pasting and posting it?

The national character of this country has nothing to do with the chest-beating redneck drivel in that editorial.


If the Southern Cross offends you...

You will note how odd this part of the search-and-replace plagiarism sounds.

The Southern Cross is not the Stars and Stripes, and is not used for the sort of masturbatory jingoistic nonsense that the American flag is.

For that matter, the Southern Cross isn't even a flag. It's a fucking constellation, a representation of which is used on both the NZ and Australian flags. And if you don't like it, best you don't move anywhere in the southern hemisphere...


Signed: A New Zealander

:laugh:

Please tell me that this is a troll, firefighter, and that you're not actually as stupid as you'd have to be to paste it in earnest.

[Toaster]

I agree. It's a double edge sword as too many New Zealander's (people actually born here) are leaving because of the PC and social engineering bullshit.

Now I told you to run for government didn't I? Oh for some good old kiwi blokes with some balls to kick all the PC bullshit in Govt and its departmental minions out.

[jrandom]

I agree.

:blink:

I guess I'll see you in church, then, Mister My Country Was Founded By God-Botherers?

[Morcs]

I thought God save the Queen was our motto...

All the bullshit of bending over for other cultures stemmed from the treaty of waitangi anyway. You bend over once, Its easier to do it again, and again, and again.

[C_A]

Political Correctness.
An oxymoron if I ever did hear one...

[Finn]

:blink:

I guess I'll see you in church, then, Mister My Country Was Founded By God-Botherers?

What was I agreeing on? I didn't read the first post.

[Stormer]

It `s happening more and more to western countries...a slow rot that gradually takes over the host country until it`s original identity and customs disappear.

[Magua]

Repost. :P

[Magua]

It `s happening more and more to western countries...a slow rot that gradually takes over the host country until it`s original identity and customs disappear.

Example please.

[cs363]

From the ministry of culture & heritage's website(http://www.mch.govt.nz/about/faq.html) :

Does New Zealand have an official colour, flower or motto?

Unlike other countries, New Zealand does not have any official colour, flower or motto. Although there are a number of unofficial symbols such as the Silver Fern and the colour of black as representing New Zealand. The origins of the 'All Blacks' are explained in the 1966 Encyclopaedia of New Zealand. The present New Zealand Coat of Arms is a 1956 revision of the 1911 design. At that time, the motto was changed from 'Onward' to 'New Zealand'.

According to the Encyclopaedia of New Zealand, as early as 1916 the kowhai was suggested as a national emblem; but although this claim has often been revived it has never been widely accepted. The clematis and manuka flowers have also had their advocates, but these have not made much headway against the fern leaf. The tree fern or “silver fern” has also received recognition as New Zealand's official badge, although it does not enjoy statutory protection like the Southern Cross. You can read more about the Silver Fern on Te Ara's website.


However, in principal I agree with the comments - whoever voted for Frankensteins sister Helen and her PC cronies have a lot to answer for!
Seems stupid that it is so difficult for US, UK etc citizens to emigrate here and vice versa yet people from countries like Somalia etc seem to piss in...
I have no problem with people from any country living here, but I would expect them to assimilate, exactly as I would do if I went and lived in their country.

[MisterD]

I thought our national motto was "She'll be 'right"?

[Jiminy]

YOU have the right to LEAVE!

As a recent immigrant, I agree with the spirit of the post. Tolerance is good, but every immigrant should also respect and adapt to the local rules and culture.


No, it's not.

Someone did a search-and-replace to change 'The United States of America' to 'New Zealand'.

Haha, well spotted. I also thought that the Southern Cross bit sounded a bit odd...

[jrandom]

What was I agreeing on? I didn't read the first post.

It's aiight, dude, we know you're not a details man.

[Grahameeboy]

Oh dear the doom and gloomers are out....

Amazes me how we make so much fuss about relatively small impact issues...so what if a muslim is allowed to wear her veil on the photo licence...it has a signature for identification purposes so easy for cop to identify.

[jrandom]

Oh for some good old kiwi blokes with some balls to kick all the PC bullshit in Govt and its departmental minions out.

*slaps forehead and sighs wearily*

See, this is the problem with brain-dead American fundamentalist rhetoric.

Otherwise-intelligent chaps like Toaster skim it, decide they like the general anti-darky sentiment, and start lacing up their jackboots.

All that is required for evil to triumph, etc...

[jrandom]

so what if a muslim is allowed to wear her veil on the photo licence...it has a signature for identification purposes so easy for cop to identify.

:pinch:

And then, some days, I just despair for the future of humanity.

[Grahameeboy]

As a recent immigrant, I agree with the spirit of the post. Tolerance is good, but every immigrant should also respect and adapt to the local rules and culture.



Haha, well spotted. I also thought that the Southern Cross bit sounded a bit odd...

I don't disagree, however if we allow say a Muslim to live here we also have to respect their culture to....I mean NZ harps on about being multicultural etc...and we cannot expect a Mulslim to turn into a beer drinking, rugby fanatic can we now...:dodge:
So much for Kiwi tolerance and 'she'll be right'.

[firefighter]

No, it's not.

Someone did a search-and-replace to change 'The United States of America' to 'New Zealand'.

Did you read that bullshit before pasting and posting it?

The national character of this country has nothing to do with the chest-beating redneck drivel in that editorial.



You will note how odd this part of the search-and-replace plagiarism sounds.

The Southern Cross is not the Stars and Stripes, and is not used for the sort of masturbatory jingoistic nonsense that the American flag is.

For that matter, the Southern Cross isn't even a flag. It's a fucking constellation, a representation of which is used on both the NZ and Australian flags. And if you don't like it, best you don't move anywhere in the southern hemisphere...



:laugh:

Please tell me that this is a troll, firefighter, and that you're not actually as stupid as you'd have to be to paste it in earnest.

Actually it was just an e-mail floating around at work, funny how well it fits though, and yes it was posted in earnest, because it really actually is pretty fitting to the way things are HERE, you can think what you want , I really don't give a shit, I don't know of anyone else whose had a problem with these statements, and as for the redneck comment, I think you'll find it's not even nearly racist, just saying what needs to be said, if you can't handle it mate go cuddle back up in bed and make sure the cotton wool your covered in doesn't expose anything

[jrandom]

we

Who's this 'we', Immigrant Boy?

[Flatcap]

I don't disagree, however if we allow say a Muslim to live here we also have to respect their culture to....I mean NZ harps on about being multicultural etc...and we cannot expect a Mulslim to turn into a beer drinking, rugby fanatic can we now...:dodge:
So much for Kiwi tolerance and 'she'll be right'.

Why not? They expect us to be teetotaling wife abusers in Arabia...

[Grahameeboy]

:pinch:

And then, some days, I just despair for the future of humanity.

Humanity has lived in dispair through the ages...it's has been okay for other Nations, even descendants of NZers to invade a Country etc etc...that is life...I prefer to live and enjoy our kingdom

[Grahameeboy]

Who's this 'we', Immigrant Boy?

We are all immigrants in time...I meant "we" as a narrative

[Grahameeboy]

Why not? They expect us to be teetotaling wife abusers in Arabia...

True but that is the "Law"...if a Muslim breaks the Laws of NZ they get punished...

[jrandom]

funny how well it fits

Did you even read what you posted? What did you think that 'our Pledge' meant? Did you have to take some sort of pledge? I know I haven't.

And calling the New Zealand flag 'The Southern Cross' fits?

Saying that this country has 'In God We Trust' as a fucking motto fits?

Have you ever seen any God bollocks on the walls of public schools in this country?

I'll say it again, that American fundamentalist ranting has no place here.

Christianity has done just as much harm throughout history as Islam has. Probably more. Attempting to paint any religion as integral to the fabric of our society is offensive.


I don't know of anyone else whose had a problem with these statements...

Perhaps because none of your associates have the mental capacity to read through to the end of that plagiarised rubbish and realise that it has nothing to do with New Zealand?

[Katman]

I thought our national motto was "She'll be 'right"?

Yeah, nah.

[kave]

Our Flag,
Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way Of Life, then you
are Highly encourage to take advantage of one other great
New Zealand freedom.

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"

Our national motto? We don't have one, although it used to be "onward".

Our Pledge? I [name] swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of New Zealand, Her heirs and successors according to law, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of New Zealand and fulfil my duties as a New Zealand citizen. So help me God. The ONLY people who ever have to make the pledge as far as I know, are immigrants gaining citizenship, I've never been required to pledge allegiance as far as I can recall.

Our way of life???

Seriously this has to be the most retarded thing I have read in a long while. I sincerely hope you are an immigrant, because I would be disgusted to learn that you are a product of the New Zealand educational system.
I am all for encouraging immigrants to assimilate, especially as failure to do so will lead to increased racial tensions, and in the worst case scenario see people with views like yours, in power. What I am not in favour of is encouraging a ultra-patriotic fervour in New Zealand. Sinclair Lewis famously said "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross". Facism appears to be arriving in America, do we want to see the same in New Zealand.
We all know what the results of excessive nationalism have been in the past, why do some people continue trying to repeat these errors?

[Skyryder]

Next thing they will be asking for an exemption for not having their photograph on their driving licence.



Skyryder

[cs363]

Well while we're on the subject, I got this email the other day, not endorsing it or otherwise, but it does make you stop and think on a couple of points:


Someone Finally Said It
(And it's long over-due.)
Proud To Be White

Someone finally said it
How many are actually paying attention to this?
There are African Americans,
Mexican Americans,
Asian Americans,
Arab Americans,
Native Americans, etc.
...And then there are just -
Americans.


You pass me on the street
and sneer in my direction.
You Call me 'White boy,'
'Cracker,' 'Honkey,'
'Whitey,' 'Caveman,'
... And that's OK.


But when I call you Nigger,
Kike, Towel head,
Sand-nigger, Camel Jockey,
Beaner, Gook, or Chink
... You call me a racist.


You say that whites commit a lot
of violence against you,
so why are the ghettos the most
dangerous places to live?


You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You Have Yom Hashoah.
You have the NAACP.
And you have BET.


If we had WET
(White Entertainment Television)
... We'd be racists.

If we had a White Pride Day
... You would call us racists.

If we had White History Month
... We'd be racists.

If we had any organization for only whites
to 'advance' OUR lives
... We'd be racists.

We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce,
a Black Chamber of Commerce,
and then we just have the plain
Chamber of Commerce.
Wonder who pays for that?

If we had a college fund that only gave
white students scholarships
... You know we'd be racists.

There are over 60 openly-proclaimed
Black-only Colleges in the US ,
yet if there were 'White-only Colleges'
... THAT would be a racist college.

In the Million Man March,
you believed that you were
marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights,
... You would call us racists.

You are proud to be black,
brown, yellow and orange,
and you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride

... You call us racists.

You rob us,
carjack us,
and shoot at us.
But, when a white police officer
shoots a black gang member
or beats up a black drug-dealer
who is running from the LAW and
posing a threat to ALL of society
... You call him a racist.

I am proud.
... But, you call me a racist.

Why is it that only
whites
can be racists?

There is nothing improper about this e-mail.

Let's see which of you
are proud enough to send it on.

[MisterD]

and as for the redneck comment, I think you'll find it's not even nearly racist, just saying what needs to be said, if you can't handle it mate go cuddle back up in bed and make sure the cotton wool your covered in doesn't expose anything

Sometimes it is better to say nothing and risk appearing stupid, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt...sorry can't remember who I should attribute that quote to

[firefighter]

Did you even read what you posted? What did you think that 'our Pledge' meant? Did you have to take some sort of pledge? I know I haven't.

And calling the New Zealand flag 'The Southern Cross' fits?

Saying that this country has 'In God We Trust' as a fucking motto fits?

Have you ever seen any God bollocks on the walls of public schools in this country?

I'll say it again, that American fundamentalist ranting has no place here.

Christianity has done just as much harm throughout history as Islam has. Probably more. Attempting to paint any religion as integral to the fabric of our society is offensive.



Perhaps because none of your associates have the mental capacity to read through to the end of that plagiarised rubbish and realise that it has nothing to do with New Zealand?

Yep and reading the out of context (ok it doesn't all fit pefect but so what?!)- arrogant crap your typing makes me really proud to be a kiwi, and for all those persons whose mental capacity your challenging, work in one of the hardest occupations in N.Z to get into, what the hell do you do that makes you think your so special?

[firefighter]

Sometimes it is better to say nothing and risk appearing stupid, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt...sorry can't remember who I should attribute that quote to

Fair enough your completely right, was just trying to have a bit of an innocent rant! obviously was taken totally out of whack.

Jrandom feel free not to reply to my last post consider it retracted.

[jrandom]

ok it doesn't all fit pefect but so what?!

Y'know, I'm going to let kave speak for me here, because I couldn't put it any better myself:


I sincerely hope you are an immigrant, because I would be disgusted to learn that you are a product of the New Zealand educational system.

And...


Facism appears to be arriving in America, do we want to see the same in New Zealand.
We all know what the results of excessive nationalism have been in the past, why do some people continue trying to repeat these errors?

Quoted for truth, motherfucker.

:niceone:


for all those persons whose mental capacity your challenging, work in one of the hardest occupations in N.Z to get into

What an odd point to raise.

It's 'hard to get into', sir, because whilst every little boy wants to be a firefighter, we really only need a certain number of them.

It's not 'hard to get into' in the same sense as med school or the Auckland Uni engineering faculty.

And, let's face it, the job basically consists of running about bashing doors down and pointing hoses at things. Doing that for a living doesn't really reflect much on one's ability to comment intelligently on society.


what the hell do you do that makes you think your so special?

My statements stand on their own. I'll make no attempt to lend them weight by stating irrelevant facts about myself.

Edit:


Jrandom feel free not to reply to my last post consider it retracted.

Too late, but no worries, we'll leave it at that then.

Edit edit:


innocent rant

Just for the record, racism, bigotry and religious fundamentalism are never innocent.

That rant was poisonous and vile, and I thank you for retracting your objections to my response.

[Flatcap]

We all know what the results of excessive nationalism have been in the past, why do some people continue trying to repeat these errors?

There is "Nationalism" and "Excessive Nationalism"

One could argue that the current imperative to embrace foreign cultures is to the detriment of the national identity.

A rebalancing is required

[Ixion]

Example please.

Well, my ancestors gradually lost their language and most of their customs, replaced by those of the colonising race. Admittedly there was some assimilation in the other direction, but it was very one sided. All we are left with are a few places names and such.

Those Anglo-Saxons have a lot to answer for.

[jrandom]

One could argue that the current imperative to embrace foreign cultures is to the detriment of the national identity.

What imperative?

Seriously.

I haven't felt any imperative to embrace any 'foreign culture'. I make my own culture and live my own life.

I have two kids in primary school, and they're not experiencing any such imperative, either.

It seems to me that this country actually muddles along fairly well, all things considered, and that xenophobia is entirely unnecessary and unproductive.

[imdying]

Example please.Easy to identify... usually by smell, typically it smells like curry or worse.

[jrandom]

Easy to identify... usually by smell, typically it smells like curry or worse.

'Worse' presumably being taro and boiled lamb flaps.

:sick:

[MisterD]

One could argue that the current imperative to embrace foreign cultures is to the detriment of the national identity.

One would definitely argue that we need to wake up and stop saying "oh, that's ok then" just because it's someone's religious belief.

[Stormer]

Example please.

1-The 2nd paragraph of the first post
2-Areas of England
3-Areas of Australia

No countries have lost it all yet...was pointing out the end result if left unchecked.:)

[nodrog]

.....so what if a muslim is allowed to wear her veil on the photo licence...it has a signature for identification purposes so easy for cop to identify.

but the bitch would have pulled her ripcord before signing her name

[98tls]

There is "Nationalism" and "Excessive Nationalism"

One could argue that the current imperative to embrace foreign cultures is to the detriment of the national identity.

A rebalancing is required Lets start with driving lessons:cool:

[bungbung]

When you want to buy a nice pie, who has made it?

I think you'll find many quality pies baked by immigrants from S.E. Asia.

What about beer?

[scumdog]

Example please.

Just ask anyone form Birmingham in the UK for example - the accent is now more like Apu from the Simpsons and they all want the law bent to suit their agenda.

[Gubb]

I thought God save the Queen was our motto...

??!!??

By the Sex Pistols?

And I certainly hope you don't mean 'Anthem'.

[sinfull]

* triumph, etc...
Yeah rock on !!!!! when are you crashi.. i mean buying one random ?
It's all good man i know this guy who converted to muslim, all ya need do is have a sex change and no one will know its you, you can wear a Veil, Viel, thing that covers ya face ! Awwww hehe squashes them thoughts of a gimp mask, lol wouldn't suit ya man not at all ! Well not if ya riding a Triumph anyway !

[scumdog]

True but that is the "Law"...if a Muslim breaks the Laws of NZ they get punished...

True.

But just wait, we already have 'Maori Drivers Licences':laugh:

Next the 'other' types will want laws bent to suit THIER agendas - refusing to expose face for licence check yadda yadda yadda....

[jrandom]

... they all want the law bent to suit their agenda.

Well, if they're a taxpaying majority, I guess that's what they'll get, ain't it?

'scalled 'democracy', and it's funny how it's such a bastard trying to get grumpy old white men to realise that its definition doesn't include "... but only if you're this colour and speak with this accent".

[Mikkel]

I have to agree with jrandom in this. Sounds like someone didn't think too much before composing the 'Ode to nationalism' which was quoted in the first post.

Come on, let's be real here - you'd get further in NZ speaking only Spanish than you would speaking only Maori.

Country founded on the motto of 'in god we trust'? I don't think you'll find any reference to this fact in the treaty of Waitangi.


I thought our national motto was "She'll be 'right"?

I think that is closer...


Christianity has done just as much harm throughout history as Islam has. Probably more. Attempting to paint any religion as integral to the fabric of our society is offensive.

You'd hope Christianity would have done a whole lot more harm than Islam - considering they got a 600 year head start they would have had to be less efficient than the NZ bureaucrazy in order to slip behind on that account.


Lets start with driving lessons:cool:

Starting with the Kiwis of course.


New Zealand is a wonderful place no doubt. But I do think that there are issues which would be more fruitful to pursue than immigrant issues. Considering the current brain drain it would not be a good idea to shut the doors to skilled migrants - or to do anything to discourage them from going here.
Unlike another place I could think of, NZ does not at all appear to have an issue with a group of immigrants who openly despise, disrespect and work against some the fundamental values (sexual equality and freedom of speech and religion) upon which the society has been founded.

[scumdog]

Well, if they're a taxpaying majority, I guess that's what they'll get, ain't it?

'scalled 'democracy', and it's funny how it's such a bastard trying to get grumpy old white men to realise that its definition doesn't include "... but only if you're this colour and speak with this accent".

Funny how somebody can go to another country, be a minoriy and still whinge and want laws etc changed to suit himself - you would think they would check and see if the country 'suited' him before going there eh?

And just because you happen to be a member of a major religion/belief doesn't automaticaly make you a 'majority' in your chosen country.

[jrandom]

600 year head start...

Yeah, but Christianity wasted 300 or so of those years as a persecuted minority religion before being adopted as a convenient population-control mechanism by the failing Roman Empire.

Islam was effectively a state religion backed by force of arms right from the word go.

Regardless of the above, the separation of church and state is a vital principle of sound and rational government, which fact was recognised by the American founding fathers, and has been conveniently forgotten by the sort of people who compose the misspelled nonsense in this thread's OP.

[jrandom]

Funny how somebody can go to another country, be a minoriy and still whinge and want laws etc changed to suit himself...

Once someone's a citizen of a country, they're a citizen of that country, full stop, whether by birth or by adoption. Right?

And all citizens of a democratic state should be able to lobby their legislators for laws that suit them.

Right, wrong, black, white or Apu don't enter into it. The loudest and/or most persuasive voice wins the day. Them as don't like the nature of the laws being passed obviously just need to learn to be louder or more persuasive.

[scumdog]

Once someone's a citizen of a country, they're a citizen of that country, full stop, whether by birth or by adoption. Right?

And all citizens of a democratic state should be able to lobby their legislators for laws that suit them.

Right, wrong, black, white or Apu don't enter into it. The loudest and/or most persuasive voice wins the day. Them as don't like the nature of the laws being passed obviously just need to learn to be louder or more persuasive.


So why come here - if you're leaving your own country ( which must be SO good 'cos you're leaving I guess:rolleyes:) wouldn't you pick a country that was already kitted up to suit your needs??

(I see now UK Police dogs are being fitted with bootees - NOT to save them from cuts etc but because Muslim see dogs as unclean and so to appease said Muslims the dogs get fitted with boots when they go onto Muslim property, bloody spare me!:slap:)

[scumdog]

Once someone's a citizen of a country, they're a citizen of that country, full stop, whether by birth or by adoption. Right?

And all citizens of a democratic state should be able to lobby their legislators for laws that suit them.

No problem with that at all old bean - I DO have a problem when they're a minority who can't get their own way and throw a tizzy-fit until a soft-cock Gov't bows and changes things without a majority vote. (I guess I'd better watch it here - our loser "Gov't' operates like that all the time.)

[Magua]

2-Areas of England


The empire returns to England, haha.

[jrandom]

(I see now UK Police dogs are being fitted with bootees...

I'll definitely grant that the UK appears to have gone PC-mad, with the Muslims over there getting ridiculously uppity with their precious demands.

Still, if the rest of the population can't organise themselves a political movement that fixes those issues, they deserve to be laughed at by the burkha-wearers.


soft-cock Gov't bows and changes things without a majority vote.

Well, yes, that's definitely a problem. Here's hoping for the sake of the Poms that the Tories fix the more egregiously ridiculous New Labour cockups.

I'd say we've avoided anything of that extent here, though. Thank goodness. But this is why we vote gubmints out - too many years in office, and an administration tends to forget where its mandate comes from.

[MisterD]

Right, wrong, black, white or Apu don't enter into it. The loudest and/or most persuasive voice wins the day. Them as don't like the nature of the laws being passed obviously just need to learn to be louder or more persuasive.

Nice sentiment but the reality of Birmingham or Bradford is that localised majorities (read: self-created ghettos) start wanting to create rules at odds with 1) the wishes of the greater national majority and 2) the traditions of the country that was so attractive to emigrate to in the first place.

In those situations, it is perfectly understandable that right-thinking (in both senses) people might consider that the piss is being taken.

[sinfull]

Well You cunts should drink more bourbon, ride Triumphs and we should all (chicks anyway) run around naked !! Vote for me at the next election and i'll see that it happens !! fuck democracy, it don't work when money rules democratic EMPIRES !
Do it my way I'll see ya right !!
Ban all religion, 4 day working (week till the money runs out then i'll have you run one of the farms (if ya lucky it will be wheat farm) with a feul distilling staion on it, perks will be good) close all airports and build a wind farm on wellingtons, Blow a bloody great channel to seperate auk from rest of the country and feed the sharks in said channel (just enought to keep them there and hungry) and use the top end of the country as a penile (as in send all the pedophiles there) prison !
Awww screw it i might just start a commune !

Edit : was gonna fix the speeeling mistakes but fuck it i'm god and well fuck you speeel it my way !

[98tls]

Starting with the Kiwis of course. Starting with my mothers next door neighbours,yes there Asians and yes they are truely nice people but they cant drive for shite,4 cars totalled in 3 years inclusive of one very badly injured motorcyclist that Raymond just "didnt see".Cant tar them all with the same brush i guess but.

[98tls]

Well You cunts should drink more bourbon, ride Triumphs and we should all (chicks anyway) run around naked !! Vote for me at the next election and i'll see that it happens !! fuck democracy, it don't work when money rules democratic EMPIRES !
Do it my way I'll see ya right !!
Ban all religion, 4 day working (week till the money runs out then i'll have you run one of the farms (if ya lucky it will be wheat farm) with a feul distilling staion on it, perks will be good) close all airports and build a wind farm on wellingtons, Blow a bloody great channel to seperate auk from rest of the country and feed the sharks in said channel (just enought to keep them there and hungry) and use the top end of the country as a penile (as in send all the pedophiles there) prison !
Awww screw it i might just start a commune ! Whats your stance on slavery?if nothing else it gets shit done.

[Mikkel]

Yeah, but Christianity wasted 300 or so of those years as a persecuted minority religion before being adopted as a convenient population-control mechanism by the failing Roman Empire.

I think the Romans were having a ball - I can understand why they didn't buy into the whole Christianity guilttrip until the hang-overs kicked in and the ones in charged needed the moral high-ground.


Islam was effectively a state religion backed by force of arms right from the word go.

You can say what you want about the muslims back in the day - but they didn't tend to fuck around when they wanted to get something done.


Regardless of the above, the separation of church and state is a vital principle of sound and rational government, which fact was recognised by the American founding fathers, and has been conveniently forgotten by the sort of people who compose the misspelled nonsense in this thread's OP.

Absolutely, but with all other sound principles they go out the window when people smell power and money. Idealists are too few and far between in politics - and the couch potatoes that are the potential voters are not likely to get off their arses as long as they are comfortable and even less so to enact change.

[madandy]

I'm not totally convinced the first post smacks of Americanism but clearly the author is a touch out of touch.

A couple of generations ago (and more) Christian values were certainly a fundamental part of Pakeha New Zealand and for many Maori too. These days far fewer people attend church at all let aolone on a regular enough basis to claim 'our culture' is a christian one.

'Our land' - Aotearoa really belongs to the Tangata Whenua not the colonising hoards that arrived in the last 200 years or so.
If a Maori had written that first post, it sure would have had some major points of difference but I beleive some of the assimilation issues alluded to would be more forcefully included.

Europeans failed to assimilate into Maori culture, the only real 'culture' that can claim to be of this land. The europeans had no intention of assimilating but did sign a Treaty agreeing to co-exist along side Maori.

I'd like to think ethnic minoroties could be welcomed into NZ 'culture' in a more pro-active way...this might help relive some of this cultural disharmony. I certaily agree that some are pushing things a little too far.

Can we not co-exist along side other peoples?

What is the real difference between one culture dwelling in a suberb round the corner and that same culture being a few hours plane ride away?

[sinfull]

Whats your stance on slavery?if nothing else it gets shit done.

Well my cousin robert seems to have things running his way over in zimbarbaricway !

[sinfull]

Europeans failed to assimilate into Maori culture, the only real 'culture' that can claim to be of this land. The europeans had no intention of assimilating but did sign a Treaty agreeing to co-exist along side Maori.

I'd like to think ethnic minoroties could be welcomed into NZ 'culture' in a more pro-active way...this might help relive some of this cultural disharmony. I certaily agree that some are pushing things a little too far.

Can we not co-exist along side other peoples?

What is the real difference between one culture dwelling in a suberb round the corner and that same culture being a few hours plane ride away?

Ok trying to think coherently here ! Faark the spelling !@
Lets take this to PD, seems everything is headed that way anyway (did i mention trucks)
One thing i will say is good on the Maori ! The English couldn't assimilate the Maori so had to Treaty with them, must have been becoming too big a cost to fight them !

Ditto with the proactivity ! Let them in the country throw em on a benefit and thats it Pffffft 90% would work harder than an aussi in his homeland mmmm should rephrase that !

Half the problem we will have here in the Near future is allowing cultures that have been warring for centuries come and set up communities ! Hello !!!

[peasea]

YOU have the right to LEAVE!

After Wellington not wanting to offend other cultures
by putting up xmas lights. After hearing that we are
going to let Muslim woman have her picture on her drivers
license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by a New Zealand Citizen.
Published in a newspaper.

Quote:

IMMIGRANTS , NOT NEW ZEALANDERS, MUST ADAPT. TAKE IT OR
LEAVE IT!

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some individuals or their culture. I am not against
immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking
a better life by coming to New Zealand. However, there are a
few things that those who have recently come to our country and
apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of New Zealand being a multicultural community has
served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As New Zealanders, we have our own culture, our own society, our
own language and our own lifestyle. Our culture has been developed
over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions
of men and women who have sought freedom, even died for it.

We Speak ENGLISH or MAORI , not spanish, lebanese, arabic, chinese,
japanese, russian or any other lanuage. Therefore if you wish to
become part of New Zealand society, -- Learn the language! "In
God we trust "is our national Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this
nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then
it is recommended that you consider another part of the world as
your new home, Because God is part of our culture.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A FAIR GO",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and
we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, AND OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will
allow you every oportunity to enjoy all this. But once you
are done complaining, whining, and or griping about Our Flag,
Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way Of Life, then you
are Highly encourage to take advantage of one other great
New Zealand freedom.

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"

LEAVE

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you
to come here.

YOU asked to be here. So Accept the country YOU accepted.

Pretty easy really,when you think about it...

Signed: A New Zealander

Bloody Right On!

Blingity, bling, bling, bling.

[Mikkel]

'Our land' - Aotearoa really belongs to the Tangata Whenua not the colonising hoards that arrived in the last 200 years or so.

The truth about land ownership is that land is owned by whoever holds power over that region at the time being.

I don't think anyone here consider the American Indians the owners of the USA. Going for the "we were here first" argument is a never ending circle that ends at the big bang and hopefully someone will stop the argument prematurely by punching the hippy on the nose and taking his land.

[SPman]

I'm not totally convinced the first post smacks of Americanism but clearly the author is a touch out of touch.

A couple of generations ago (and more) Christian values were certainly a fundamental part of Pakeha New Zealand and for many Maori too. These days far fewer people attend church at all let aolone on a regular enough basis to claim 'our culture' is a christian one.

'Our land' - Aotearoa really belongs to the Tangata Whenua not the colonising hoards that arrived in the last 200 years or so. Bullshit! A country belongs to the occupying power - if you don't know that, you haven't been studying history over the last 5000 years
If a Maori had written that first post, it sure would have had some major points of difference but I beleive some of the assimilation issues alluded to would be more forcefully included.

Europeans failed to assimilate into Maori culture, the only real 'culture' that can claim to be of this land. The europeans had no intention of assimilating but did sign a Treaty agreeing to co-exist along side Maori.There was much more assimilation in the early days - my great great grandfather was fluent in Maori, as was my great grandfather. A lot of Maori attitudes have rubbed off on European sourced families who have been here a while - more than many may realise and enough to create a point of difference with non NZ "Europeans"

I'd like to think ethnic minoroties could be welcomed into NZ 'culture' in a more pro-active way...this might help relive some of this cultural disharmony. I certaily agree that some are pushing things a little too far.
That is the way that communities evolve - subtle (and not so subtle) changes wrought by immigrants
Can we not co-exist along side other peoples?

What is the real difference between one culture dwelling in a suberb round the corner and that same culture being a few hours plane ride away? Not as easy to sweep under the carpet????I'm with Mr Random on this one.

[alanzs]

"In God we trust "is our national Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this
nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then
it is recommended that you consider another part of the world as
your new home, Because God is part of our culture.


I thought that was from the US? :doh: :lol:

Could this be another cut and paste error?

Or, as I suspect, and I am sure many of you will agree with me on this, it is part of the nefarious worldwide conspiracy of the billions of people who are attempting to infiltrate PURE CLEAN GREEN WHITE NEW ZEALAND and replace fat laden pies and trans fat saturated fush and chups with, NO, DON'T SAY IT, RICE? Ahhhhhhhhh noooooo......... :hug:

If we had a queen, God save her and quickly. Oh, we do have a Queen.... :Oops:

[peasea]

I'm not totally convinced the first post smacks of Americanism but clearly the author is a touch out of touch.

A couple of generations ago (and more) Christian values were certainly a fundamental part of Pakeha New Zealand and for many Maori too. These days far fewer people attend church at all let aolone on a regular enough basis to claim 'our culture' is a christian one.

'Our land' - Aotearoa really belongs to the Tangata Whenua not the colonising hoards that arrived in the last 200 years or so.
If a Maori had written that first post, it sure would have had some major points of difference but I beleive some of the assimilation issues alluded to would be more forcefully included.

Europeans failed to assimilate into Maori culture, the only real 'culture' that can claim to be of this land. The europeans had no intention of assimilating but did sign a Treaty agreeing to co-exist along side Maori.

I'd like to think ethnic minoroties could be welcomed into NZ 'culture' in a more pro-active way...this might help relive some of this cultural disharmony. I certaily agree that some are pushing things a little too far.

Can we not co-exist along side other peoples?

What is the real difference between one culture dwelling in a suberb round the corner and that same culture being a few hours plane ride away?

Could it not be suggested that the term "Our Land" can be used the conquering force? It's been the way of the world since....ages ago.

[Grahameeboy]

True.

But just wait, we already have 'Maori Drivers Licences':laugh:

Next the 'other' types will want laws bent to suit THIER agendas - refusing to expose face for licence check yadda yadda yadda....

In the whole scheme of things I suspect this potential issue would be either a minor threat and / or of little real impact.

[sinfull]

[SIZE="5"]Or, as I am on this attempt to infiltrate PURE fat trans
If we had a queen Oh, we do have a Queen.... :Oops:
Ewwwwww . Trans atlantic queen fest !!!

[Hitcher]

It `s happening more and more to western countries...a slow rot that gradually takes over the host country until it`s original identity and customs disappear.

Name two such countries.

[MIXONE]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever.

[sinfull]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever.
You bastard !!!!!!!!

[alanzs]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever.

Let it go, us white folks feel that every where in the world where we have conquered those with tanner skin. If we weren't better, why'd they let us win? They never have an answer for that one, do they?

In the end, they will win though, as darker pigmentation is a dominant gene, therefore making white skin more and more uncommon. We could choose to not interbreed with them, but frankly, some tan skinned chicks are much hotter than the average white chick and look at what happened to the Brits in their attempt to interbreed exclusively among themselves; all the bad teeth and sallow complexions. There's just no winning in the long run...

I choose not to wear sunscreen, screw them! :yes:

[98tls]

In the whole scheme of things I suspect this potential issue would be either a minor threat and / or of little real impact. Agreed by why cant they just shut the fuck up and get on with living here,what they did in towel head land has no relevance here,i can only asume they thought it looked pretty good from afar so if they get here and dont like it piss off instead wanting this and wanting that blah blah blah.We are going down the same path England has re pc bullshit ie rubbish like the childrens nursery rhyme "3 little pigs" is out as it offends etc.A normal person would laugh at there demands but this whole pc thing is got so out of hand that its taken seriously.:laugh::slap:Madness.

[98tls]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever. They did, where they went wrong was stopping.:msn-wink:

[Stormer]

Name two such countries.

I did, about 3 pages back.

[SPman]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever.
Who's guilty? I certainly don't feel guilty. Did my Norse ancestors feel guilty when they invaded the North of England? Probably not - too busy looting and pillaging and complaining about Saxons and Britons and Picts, before putting them all to the sword...and axe...and...whatever! I'm a 5th generation "born in NZ" european descent - as far as I'm concerned, I'm a New Zealander as much as any Maori, with just as much feel for the land and sea. Hell - I even vote maori party!!! You're only guilty if you let yourself feel guilty, and I just don't buy into it! Treat everyone as an equal, including new immigrants wherever they come from. Make them feel welcome into society and they have less reason to cling to habits and customs from their past.

[Badjelly]

Who's guilty? I certainly don't feel guilty. Did my Norse ancestors feel guilty when they invaded the North of England? Probably not - too busy looting and pillaging and complaining about Saxons and Britons and Picts, before putting them all to the sword...and axe...and...whatever! I'm a 5th generation "born in NZ" european descent - as far as I'm concerned, I'm a New Zealander as much as any Maori, with just as much feel for the land and sea. Hell - I even vote maori party!!! You're only guilty if you let yourself feel guilty, and I just don't buy into it! Treat everyone as an equal, including new immigrants wherever they come from. Make them feel welcome into society and they have less reason to cling to habits and customs from their past.

+1. Bling sent.

[jimevo]

Been living in the U.S. as an new immirgrant for the past 2 years and I must say there is no such issue as people ask me to salute the U.S. flag or speak "American"... As matter of fact, they love the change in perspectives and no one has yet to tell me that it's my right to leave the country.

[Badjelly]

"In God we trust "is our national Motto.

YOU asked to be here.

I know it's been said before in this thread, but...

"In God we trust" isn't our national motto.
Regardless, it's certainly not my motto
Er no, I didn't ask to be born here, though it is my choice to be here now.


That's what irritates me about this "love it or leave it" stuff. The country & culture I'm being asked to love isn't the country & culture I do love.

[CB ARGH]

HOLY FUCK!

That's insane how they can do that (with the muslim women). I also get pissed off at how the asian community say that they're not safe, dude, we're all equal, and if you've got a problem with the way our country runs, then you need to:

A) Harden the FUCK up
B) Get a life
C) Go back to your home town

No offense, not being racist, asians are very nice people, especially if they are females and between the age of 15-25 :hug:

[rachprice]

NZ has one of the highest populations of people with an atheist/agnostic religious stance. I really dont think god is that much a part of our culture.
I would have thought that post about being proud to be white might have been a bit more inflammatory. I just think that in able to have disadvantaged populations (such as maori/african american) become 'equal' (as everyone claims to want) you cant just treat everyone as equal because thats only going to maintain the disparity. You need extra/specific programs or rights to allow the inequality to be lessened.

[98tls]

NZ has one of the highest populations of people with an atheist/agnostic religious stance. I really dont think god is that much a part of our culture.
I would have thought that post about being proud to be white might have been a bit more inflammatory. I just think that in able to have disadvantaged populations (such as maori/african american) become 'equal' (as everyone claims to want) you cant just treat everyone as equal because thats only going to maintain the disparity. You need extra/specific programs or rights to allow the inequality to be lessened. Everyone that lives here has the right to go to school and get a job when there done,what else do they need?

[rachprice]

Oh yeah i just meant in terms of education/health etc. It wasnt an attack just a statement. eg specific health initiatives aimed at maori/PI because they have a higher rate, or increased scholarships for maori/PI to attend university because they are generally from the lower socioeconomic bracket

[Swoop]

Actually it was just an e-mail floating around at work, funny how well it fits though,
See bottom reply.

I think you'll find many quality pies baked by immigrants from S.E. Asia.
Have you noticed that the pastry has become more "yellow"? This is entirely to cater to the demand of migrants.

I thought that was from the US? :doh: :lol:
Could this be another cut and paste error?
Nope, unfortunately this is out of an Australian newspaper, Melbourne if I remember correctly.

[Hinny]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever.

In the immortal words of the recently deceased, and hopefully never forgotten, George Carlin...
"Unless you're a black, homosexual, working class woman, you're an oppressor.. Pig. You deserve to die!"

[Hinny]

When you want to buy a nice pie, who has made it?

I think you'll find many quality pies baked by immigrants from S.E. Asia.

What about beer?

I haven't found one yet so have to disagree with you there.
Plenty of Asian bakers... Plenty of crap pies. It seems they were all taught by the same person...who was obviously a poor student.

What about beer? Yeah, that would be nice. I've just finished my bottle of wine.

[Hinny]

Who's this 'we', Immigrant Boy?

Could it be:
The royal 'we',
The collective 'we',
or just him and his bloody tapeworm?

jrandom... I like your style.

[mstriumph]

Oh dear the doom and gloomers are out....

Amazes me how we make so much fuss about relatively small impact issues...so what if a muslim is allowed to wear her veil on the photo licence...it has a signature for identification purposes so easy for cop to identify.

no - No - NO!!!
this is NOT a small issue
this is making a different set of rules for a section of the community based on their gender and ethnicity or religion
this is DISCRIMINATION

----- and it may well, also, be the thin end of the wedge .......


this is unacceptable

[RantyDave]

"In God we trust "is our national Motto.
My ideology! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine! Mine!

Dave

[mstriumph]

............ I just think that in able to have disadvantaged populations (such as maori/african american) become 'equal' (as everyone claims to want) you cant just treat everyone as equal because thats only going to maintain the disparity. You need extra/specific programs or rights to allow the inequality to be lessened.

firstly you are, erroneously, lumping maori together with african americans [which i find culturally offensive] and making a flying leap of pseudo-logic that because the latter may be disadvantaged it 'proves' the former likewise is

you then compound the error by wanting to tip quantities of taxpayer funds into 'righting' the pseudo wrong by introducing 'specific' programs which, by their very nature of playing to one group of the populace only, are OF THEIR VERY SELVES discriminatory

:eek5: tea - i need tea .............

[cs363]

you then compound the error by wanting to tip quantities of taxpayer funds into 'righting' the pseudo wrong by introducing 'specific' programs which, by their very nature of playing to one group of the populace only, are OF THEIR VERY SELVES discriminatory


Yep...precisely the point I was trying to make with my (much!) earlier post of that email I received.

[rachprice]

firstly you are, erroneously, lumping maori together with african americans [which i find culturally offensive] and making a flying leap of pseudo-logic that because the latter may be disadvantaged it 'proves' the former likewise is

you then compound the error by wanting to tip quantities of taxpayer funds into 'righting' the pseudo wrong by introducing 'specific' programs which, by their very nature of playing to one group of the populace only, are OF THEIR VERY SELVES discriminatory

:eek5: tea - i need tea .............

I wasn't lumping them together I use maori because it is the one i know most about and I said african american to reflect back to the post i mentioned.
How is it culturally offensive anyway?
I am not using 'psuedo-logic' I know that both are disadvantaged, in health and education (maybe other things these are just the two i know most about) How do you reach the conclusion that trying to 'prove' one group is disadvantaged by stating another?
Thats my whole point though, to fix the inequality that IS there (whether you like to admit or not) you have to go the extra distance to make things equal.
Take an imbalanced scale for example, its just going to stay exactly where it is if you do nothing (treating all races equally), but if you add more weight (resources) to the lighter side it will become the same therefore achieving equality
Isn't equality what we strive for?
In a perfect world there wouldn't be inequalities, but there is and as a society we need to address them.
Just by being born that maori/pacific islander your statistically (very significantly at that) disadvantaged. You cant tell me that its the maori/pacific island childs fault that their parents are in the lower socieconomic groups, which therefore effects their health and attitudes towards education. These disadvantaged children (which go on to become adults) need to be given a chance. I'm all for giving every disadvantaged person a chance (not just maori/PI) but stats show that they are by far the most disavantaged races.

[cs363]

Just stop and think for a moment - what if we had the Pakeha All Blacks?
Can you imagine the uproar?
Yet no one seems to worry that we have a Maori All Blacks, which is even more bizarre in my mind when something like 80 or 90% of the All Blacks are Maori or Pacific Islanders anyway...
there are many more examples of what has been termed reverse racism, such as exclusive Maori schools etc etc
Why can't we just have one for all (and all for one?)? :)

[Niterider]

Hey cs363, I just had my laugh for the day - after reading the saying 'bout "B4 u judge..." real cool, good on ya!

[98tls]

I wasn't lumping them together I use maori because it is the one i know most about and I said african american to reflect back to the post i mentioned.
How is it culturally offensive anyway?
I am not using 'psuedo-logic' I know that both are disadvantaged, in health and education (maybe other things these are just the two i know most about) How do you reach the conclusion that trying to 'prove' one group is disadvantaged by stating another?
Thats my whole point though, to fix the inequality that IS there (whether you like to admit or not) you have to go the extra distance to make things equal.
Take an imbalanced scale for example, its just going to stay exactly where it is if you do nothing (treating all races equally), but if you add more weight (resources) to the lighter side it will become the same therefore achieving equality
Isn't equality what we strive for?
In a perfect world there wouldn't be inequalities, but there is and as a society we need to address them.
Just by being born that maori/pacific islander your statistically (very significantly at that) disadvantaged. You cant tell me that its the maori/pacific island childs fault that their parents are in the lower socieconomic groups, which therefore effects their health and attitudes towards education. These disadvantaged children (which go on to become adults) need to be given a chance. I'm all for giving every disadvantaged person a chance (not just maori/PI) but stats show that they are by far the most disavantaged races.
Dont worry mate it doesnt matter how or what you say this is the new NZ,somewhere sitting quietly in front of the computer is someone waiting to find something culturally offensive.Behind them an army of do-gooders.

[cs363]

Dont worry mate it doesnt matter how or what you say this is the new NZ,somewhere sitting quietly in front of the computer is someone waiting to find something culturally offensive.

:laugh: That would be even funnier if it wasn't so true! We're :buggerd: lets face it! :)

[cs363]

Hey cs363, I just had my laugh for the day - after reading the saying 'bout "B4 u judge..." real cool, good on ya!

he he, thanks - just a wee bit of levity to tone down proceedings :niceone:

[James Deuce]

I can't begin to describe how offensive the first post is. From it's pseudo patriotic rantings, to its US origins, to its utterly, gob-smackingly blind denial of the fundamental nature of nomadic human existence when we decided to leave Africa 2 million years ago after being reduced to a couple of very small family groups by centuries of drought.

Redneck, racist, hillbilly bollocks.

I sat in a neo-natal intensive care unit, praying that my third child would find the strength to survive the crucial early stages of his life, as his vital functions ran down and he struggled to adapt to making his body work in his own right outside the womb.

In amongst a room full of trained professionals, I watched feral white Kiwis bully each other, mock patients, and make a sport of reducing mothers to tears. To care as a health professional in that environment was to render yourself weak and easy prey for the more experienced staff. The only caring hand extended when it all seemed bleak belonged to a Somalian Muslim woman, who with the maximum facility of her limited English let us know that it was alright to be sad, that other people cared, and even though her husband had forced her onto the street because she had delivered a tainted child, she gave me and my wife a hug. We gave her food, we organised her somewhere to live, we watched her beautiful but doomed child while she caught sleep now and then in that fitful way people do when forced to grieve for the yet living. We struggled to say each other's name, but we smiled and watched and cared for each other.

She was an immigrant. May we gather many more like her to this country.

[tgb_novice]

I can't begin to describe how offensive the first post is. From it's pseudo patriotic rantings, to its US origins, to its utterly, gob-smackingly blind denial of the fundamental nature of nomadic human existence when we decided to leave Africa 2 million years ago after being reduced to a couple of very small family groups by centuries of drought.

Redneck, racist, hillbilly bollocks.

I sat in a neo-natal intensive care unit, praying that my third child would find the strength to survive the crucial early stages of his life, as his vital functions ran down and he struggled to adapt to making his body work in his own right outside.

In amongst a room full of trained professionals, I watched feral white Kiwis bully each other, mock patients, and make a sport of reducing mothers to tears. To care as a health professional in that environment was to render yourself weak and easy prey for the more experienced staff. The only caring hand extended when it all seemed bleak belonged to a Somalian Muslim woman, who with the maximum facility of her limited English let us know that it was alright to be sad, that other people cared, and even though her husband had forced her onto the street because she had delivered a tainted child, she gave me and my wife a hug. We gave her food, we organised her somewhere to live, we watched her beautiful but doomed child while she caught sleep now and then in that fitful way people do when forced to grieve for the yet living. We struggled to say each other's name, but we smiled and watched and cared for each other.

She was an immigrant. May we gather many more like her to this country.

:clap:

( 10 chars )

[RantyDave]

Redneck, racist, hillbilly bollocks.
Bling. Perhaps KB is picking up again.

Dave

[Mikkel]

Jim2 - you deserve some bling for that... again.


What about beer? Yeah, that would be nice. I've just finished my bottle of wine.

Take in some ethnic wisdom in that case: Bier nach wien, das muss nicht sein. Aber wien nach bier, das rate ich dir. :yes: (sorry my german is crap -but you those are wise words though).


firstly you are, erroneously, lumping maori together with african americans [which i find culturally offensive]

Offensive to which party? :scratch:

[peasea]

Redneck, racist, hillbilly bollocks.





I love redneck, racist hillbilly bollocks, it's soooo me. (And I love my sisters, all three of them, just ask my paw...)

[peasea]

All I know is that I'm sick of feeling guilty for being white in NZ.At times it seems my ancestors stole everything,killed everyone and now I have to pay for it forever.


I know how you feel. I'm a working, middle-class, white, heterosexual; which makes me a member of a persecuted minority group.

[cs363]

I know how you feel. I'm a working, middle-class, white, heterosexual; which makes me a member of a persecuted minority group.


yep....you've ticked every box - you are officially :buggerd:

[Bren]

Yup, the working class white fella gets the stink end of the stick...the guvinmint panders to the frikkin dole bludgers and panders to those who use their racial heritage as an excuse to be fucked up!
I am proud myself to be who I am, and that is a White New Zealander with a Celtic background. I am not racist, or a bigot instead I respect people on their merits.

IF YOU ARE A DOLE BLUDGING FUCKWIT SITTING ON YOUR ARSE ALL DAY YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU ARE AN IMMIGRANT WHO IS NOT WILLING TO BECOME A "KIWI" YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU WANT TO FUCK THIS COUNTRY OVER AND SUCK WHAT YOU CAN OUTTA IT THEN YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU ARE A HARD WORKING BLOKE OR BLOKESS WHO ADDS TO THIS COUNTRY THEN YOU GET MY RESPECT, AND ALSO GET MY THANKS FOR WORKING HARD TO TRY TO MAKE THIS A BETTER PLACE!!!:rockon:

[Wiki Drifter]

8 pages and nobody tried googling

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp

[Mikkel]

IF YOU ARE AN IMMIGRANT WHO IS NOT WILLING TO BECOME A "KIWI" YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU WANT TO FUCK THIS COUNTRY OVER AND SUCK WHAT YOU CAN OUTTA IT THEN YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

That is a catch-22 I'm afraid :chase:

You don't have to shout btw ;)

[Hinny]

Take in some ethnic wisdom in that case: Bier nach wien, das muss nicht sein. Aber wien nach bier, das rate ich dir. :yes: (sorry my german is crap -but you those are wise words though).

I'm tough, I can handle it.

I heard a good one about drinking wine recently.

White after red, you'd be better off dead.
Red after white, you'll be all right.

[Grahameeboy]

Agreed by why cant they just shut the fuck up and get on with living here,what they did in towel head land has no relevance here,i can only asume they thought it looked pretty good from afar so if they get here and dont like it piss off instead wanting this and wanting that blah blah blah.We are going down the same path England has re pc bullshit ie rubbish like the childrens nursery rhyme "3 little pigs" is out as it offends etc.A normal person would laugh at there demands but this whole pc thing is got so out of hand that its taken seriously.:laugh::slap:Madness.

I know but to be honest being from London I just ignored it all and it did not impinge on life...sometimes we allow things that really do not affect us to actually affect us.

[Grahameeboy]

no - No - NO!!!
this is NOT a small issue
this is making a different set of rules for a section of the community based on their gender and ethnicity or religion
this is DISCRIMINATION

----- and it may well, also, be the thin end of the wedge .......


this is unacceptable

All issues are only as big as you make them...it is a minute section of the community at that.

I agree "Big Ears"...."3 Little Pigs"...is silly but lets face it what real impact did it have...we have moved on surely.

Is it really making a new set of rules or just respecting someones beliefs. I think it would be wrong to disrepect someone's beliefs because then we discriminate too...it's a vicious circle.

A veil wearing Muslim should be able to move to another Country. The only expectation is that they respect the Laws of the Land.

Have Photo ID on a licence is a policy that I seem to recall was frowned upon when it first came out and now has been accepted...

I mean how many veil covered women do you see...

Trouble is that NZ still has that culture that it is okay to drink and drive, ride a motorbike without either a licence or the correct one so who are we to cast stones

[awayatc]

Got it now, you are saying its ok to throw stones at veiled women with the wrong licence when you are drunk so they will move to another country.

Fair enough I suppose:shifty:

[James Deuce]

8 pages and nobody tried googling

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/thisisamerica.asp

Yes they did.

Using a Snopes link on KB just earns you the hate of the small minded who can't stand to see their "truth" shot down in flames. I'm hated enough without pointing out that 2 seconds of research via a search engine points out their plagiarism and gullibility.

Oh dear. I seem to have done it again.

[James Deuce]

Yup, the working class white fella gets the stink end of the stick...the guvinmint panders to the frikkin dole bludgers and panders to those who use their racial heritage as an excuse to be fucked up!
I am proud myself to be who I am, and that is a White New Zealander with a Celtic background. I am not racist, or a bigot instead I respect people on their merits.

IF YOU ARE A DOLE BLUDGING FUCKWIT SITTING ON YOUR ARSE ALL DAY YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU ARE AN IMMIGRANT WHO IS NOT WILLING TO BECOME A "KIWI" YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU WANT TO FUCK THIS COUNTRY OVER AND SUCK WHAT YOU CAN OUTTA IT THEN YOU DONT GET MY RESPECT!

IF YOU ARE A HARD WORKING BLOKE OR BLOKESS WHO ADDS TO THIS COUNTRY THEN YOU GET MY RESPECT, AND ALSO GET MY THANKS FOR WORKING HARD TO TRY TO MAKE THIS A BETTER PLACE!!!:rockon:

I don't want your respect.

I think you should emigrate to a country where racial stereotypes and violence against immigrants is perfectly acceptable. Australia is just over there and the standard of living is a lot better.

[Badjelly]

I can't begin to describe how offensive the first post is.

I find it so too, but I must admit I am a little uncomfortable with the whole business of jumping up and down and saying "I'm offended" as it that ends the discussion. Some things that offend some people are true and need to be said.


Redneck, racist, hillbilly bollocks.

That's better :yes:

[Badjelly]

I think it would be wrong to disrespect someone's beliefs

I think that very much depends on the beliefs.

[Marmoot]

This idea of New Zealand being a multicultural community has
served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As New Zealanders, we have our own culture, our own society, our
own language and our own lifestyle. Our culture has been developed
over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions
of men and women who have sought freedom, even died for it.

Biggest bullshit I've ever read. :wacko:
Your so-called "own culture" is British colonisation. The real New Zealand culture was stamped down the moment you immigrants from Britain set foot on this land. Those who sought freedom were killed and stamped as Maori cannibals.

I'd rather have 1000 burqa-wearing arabic-speaking immigrants that works their asses off and pays their taxes, than 10 "new zealanders" that bludge the dole or ones that skip the tasman ditch to Australia for better money.

You can't eat 'national pride', but you CAN eat chinese food.

Your Nationality concept is skewed and bigotted.
...And worse if it is really a copy-and-paste job from some Americans.

[Marmoot]

I know how you feel. I'm a working, middle-class, white, heterosexual; which makes me a member of a persecuted minority group.

Beat this...

Working, middle-class, chinese, under-25, bike-rider, honda car boy-racer, heterosexual, recent graduate.

Beats your score by 5 :)

Immigrants may have the upper hands at times, but not chinese.
There, I SAID THE C WORD!

The government targeting order is as follows:
- Immigrants - Chinese (arriving after 1890 AD)
- John Key
- Immigrants - Asian origin (arriving after 1990)
- Immigration Officers and Corrections Department Staff Members
- Immigrants - Pacific Islands (post 2005 and overstayers, diabetics excluded)
- Immigrants - Misc. other than UK and Germany
- Native New Zealand (i.e., Pakeha)
- The Holy Maori Tribes (Caution: may trigger possibility of referendums and change of government)

[peasea]

Beat this...

Working, middle-class, chinese, under-25, bike-rider, honda car boy-racer, heterosexual, recent graduate.

Beats your score by 5 :)

Immigrants may have the upper hands at times, but not chinese.
There, I SAID THE C WORD!

The government targeting order is as follows:
- Immigrants - Chinese (arriving after 1890 AD)
- John Key
- Immigrants - Asian origin (arriving after 1990)
- Immigration Officers and Corrections Department Staff Members
- Immigrants - Pacific Islands (post 2005 and overstayers, diabetics excluded)
- Immigrants - Misc. other than UK and Germany
- Native New Zealand (i.e., Pakeha)
- The Holy Maori Tribes (Caution: may trigger possibility of referendums and change of government)

I wasn't aware it was a competition but ok, you win.

The "government targeting order" ? Are you for real?

[boomer]

Beat this...

Working, middle-class, chinese, under-25, bike-rider, honda car boy-racer, heterosexual, recent graduate.

Beats your score by 5 :)

Immigrants may have the upper hands at times, but not chinese.
There, I SAID THE C WORD!

The government targeting order is as follows:
- Immigrants - Chinese (arriving after 1890 AD)
- John Key
- Immigrants - Asian origin (arriving after 1990)
- Immigration Officers and Corrections Department Staff Members
- Immigrants - Pacific Islands (post 2005 and overstayers, diabetics excluded)
- Immigrants - Misc. other than UK and Germany
- Native New Zealand (i.e., Pakeha)
- The Holy Maori Tribes (Caution: may trigger possibility of referendums and change of government)


typo.. ur a homosexual Marmoot :msn-wink: ahahhaa

This shit is rascist and biggoted crap.. My country indeed. The world is for everyone, the sooner you open your eyes and realise that the sooner you loose the 'red neck' tag!

dick heads!

[Marmoot]

typo.. ur a homosexual Marmoot :msn-wink: ahahhaa

Only for you...

[Hitcher]

Beat this...

Is this some sort of creative fiction competition?

Nice troll.

[mstriumph]

I wasn't lumping them together I use maori because it is the one i know most about and I said african american to reflect back to the post i mentioned.
How is it culturally offensive anyway?.....

because it implies that their 'disadvantage' is the most important and significant thing about either 'race' - and that's insulting to both


......... I'm all for giving every disadvantaged person a chance (not just maori/PI) but stats show that they are by far the most disavantaged races.

me too - i'm just a little too realistic to expect that legislating significant advantages for certain sectors of the community won't end up pissing the remainder of that community off to the extent it compounds the problem instead of eliminating it

good intentions, unfortunately, invariably end up making things worse

[mstriumph]

.......Offensive to which party? :scratch:
both of them - and to me :whistle:

[peasea]

.....and the last thing you want to do is FEED it.

[mstriumph]

All issues are only as big as you make them...it is a minute section of the community at that.

...........................
Is it really making a new set of rules
..................

ANY exception creates a precedent

i don't CARE that it's just an licence and that's what she normally wears when she's driving

ON THAT BASIS I DEMAND TO HAVE MY LICENCE PHOTO TAKEN IN MY FULL-FACE HELMET

[scumdog]

I'd rather have 1000 burqa-wearing arabic-speaking immigrants that works their asses off and pays their taxes, than 10 "new zealanders" that bludge the dole or ones that skip the tasman ditch to Australia for better money.

Don't worry, given time the arabic-speaking ones will become New Zealanders - and then will discover 'bludging' in all its manifestations...and if they don't they'll now be able to get into Aussie for the 'better money'.

[jrandom]

I think it would be wrong to disrepect someone's beliefs...

Well, all things in moderation, including tolerance.

For example, were I to believe that the earth was flat, the moon was made of green cheese, and that both of them were sneezed from the nostril of the Great Green Arkleseizure, you would be correct to privately hold the opinion that I was an idiot.

Were I, however, to believe that the Great Green Arkleseizure had commanded me to redline my bike outside your bedroom window at 3am every morning, you would be correct to run outside and punch me in the nose.

[Grahameeboy]

I think that very much depends on the beliefs.

Why, you respect whether or not you agree with their beliefs

[Grahameeboy]

ANY exception creates a precedent

i don't CARE that it's just an licence and that's what she normally wears when she's driving

ON THAT BASIS I DEMAND TO HAVE MY LICENCE PHOTO TAKEN IN MY FULL-FACE HELMET

Guess we just see things different...

[Grahameeboy]

Well, all things in moderation, including tolerance.

For example, were I to believe that the earth was flat, the moon was made of green cheese, and that both of them were sneezed from the nostril of the Great Green Arkleseizure, you would be correct to privately hold the opinion that I was an idiot.

Were I, however, to believe that the Great Green Arkleseizure had commanded me to redline my bike outside your bedroom window at 3am every morning, you would be correct to run outside and punch me in the nose.

No I would let someone else come out and do that as not my style:innocent:

[rachprice]

because it implies that their 'disadvantage' is the most important and significant thing about either 'race' - and that's insulting to both



me too - i'm just a little too realistic to expect that legislating significant advantages for certain sectors of the community won't end up pissing the remainder of that community off to the extent it compounds the problem instead of eliminating it

good intentions, unfortunately, invariably end up making things worse
How the hell does my comment imply that their disadvantage is the most significant thing about their race, when did I say that? I am stating FACT (not opinion) that those particular races are disadvantaged, even then I was just using those races as examples!
There is legislation that looks after the whole population (working for families and the step-up scholarship for uni when your parents earn under a certain amount). But our current situation calls for special initiatives in areas such as health, for in particular Maori, because it has been shown that no matter what socioeconomic group they are in they still have a significantly worse life expectancy.
We DO need specific initiatives for specific groups of people to achieve equality.
But I agree that NZ seems a bit PC sometimes and seems to appease to certain groups an awful lot. I just think that some of these specific initiatives have their place, and are very important!

[Sanx]

Why, you respect whether or not you agree with their beliefs

Wrong. Respect needs to be earned; it doesn't just get given out because someone attaches the word religion to it. No-one expects your political views to be respected, or your support of a particular sports team, your fashion sense or any other aspect of your personality. Why should your choice of deity / imaginary friend be any different?

[Pedrostt500]

I thought have another beer mate she'll be right was our countries moto.

[Mikkel]

Wrong. Respect needs to be earned; it doesn't just get given out because someone attaches the word religion to it. No-one expects your political views to be respected, or your support of a particular sports team, your fashion sense or any other aspect of your personality. Why should your choice of deity / imaginary friend be any different?

Ah, the big R word.

You HAVE to respect other peoples right to HOLD a certain belief. Quite simply you HAVE to do this if you want other people to respect your right to choose what to believe.

However, that is not the same thing as you having to respect THAT belief in particular. Nor do you have to respect the individual for choosing that particular belief.

I can not remember who said it, regarding freedom of speech: "While I may never agree with neither your arguments nor your sentiments - I would happily lay down my life for your right to have them!" (adlibed by myself with an allowance for artistical expression (my memory is a bit murky)).

[Grahameeboy]

Wrong. Respect needs to be earned; it doesn't just get given out because someone attaches the word religion to it. No-one expects your political views to be respected, or your support of a particular sports team, your fashion sense or any other aspect of your personality. Why should your choice of deity / imaginary friend be any different?

We are talking about respecting someone's beliefs which is different to respecting the person for who they are etc.

[bc4eva]

YOU have the right to LEAVE!

After Wellington not wanting to offend other cultures
by putting up xmas lights. After hearing that we are
going to let Muslim woman have her picture on her drivers
license with her face covered.

This prompted this editorial written by a New Zealand Citizen.
Published in a newspaper.

Quote:

IMMIGRANTS , NOT NEW ZEALANDERS, MUST ADAPT. TAKE IT OR
LEAVE IT!

I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are
offending some individuals or their culture. I am not against
immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking
a better life by coming to New Zealand. However, there are a
few things that those who have recently come to our country and
apparently some born here, need to understand.

This idea of New Zealand being a multicultural community has
served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity.
As New Zealanders, we have our own culture, our own society, our
own language and our own lifestyle. Our culture has been developed
over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions
of men and women who have sought freedom, even died for it.

We Speak ENGLISH or MAORI , not spanish, lebanese, arabic, chinese,
japanese, russian or any other lanuage. Therefore if you wish to
become part of New Zealand society, -- Learn the language! "In
God we trust "is our national Motto. This is not some Christian,
right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because
Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this
nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate
to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then
it is recommended that you consider another part of the world as
your new home, Because God is part of our culture.

If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A FAIR GO",
then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
planet.
We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and
we really don't care how you did things where you came from.

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, AND OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will
allow you every oportunity to enjoy all this. But once you
are done complaining, whining, and or griping about Our Flag,
Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way Of Life, then you
are Highly encourage to take advantage of one other great
New Zealand freedom.

"THE RIGHT TO LEAVE"

LEAVE

If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you
to come here.

YOU asked to be here. So Accept the country YOU accepted.

Pretty easy really,when you think about it...

Signed: A New Zealander

Bloody Right On!

hahah a chick from my work forwarded this onto all staff which included our executive team and CEO.....there's definitely a time and place for this message...haha..

[mstriumph]

How the hell does my comment imply that their disadvantage is the most significant thing about their race, when did I say that? .................

your juxtapositioning of two such disparate cultural groups implied that


I just think that some of these specific initiatives have their place, and are very important! .... and i just think they cause more problems than they are going to solve

i guess we just see things differently - that's allowed ;) - especially on KB

[mstriumph]

We are talking about respecting someone's beliefs which is different to respecting the person for who they are etc. if we REALLY respected the beliefs of others, we'd end up with a squillion more public holidays and every friday arvo off ...... sooooooo - i'm in favour!! :msn-wink:

[Skyryder]

Respect is a two way thing. Don't see much with a sucide bomber or for that matter a gunmen outside an abortion clinic.


Skyryder

[Sanx]

Ah, the big R word.

You HAVE to respect other peoples right to HOLD a certain belief. Quite simply you HAVE to do this if you want other people to respect your right to choose what to believe.

However, that is not the same thing as you having to respect THAT belief in particular. Nor do you have to respect the individual for choosing that particular belief.

Oh, I fully support the right to believe whatever you like, provided (and this is the bit that most believers cannot accept) that you do not try to force those beliefs on others, including their children. But there is absolutely no reason that I should respect those beliefs, and refrain from questioning them or ridiculing them or acting in a way that is contrary to them, simply because you believe them.

If you choose to believe that there is an omniscient, omnipotent god and his messenger was an illiterate paedophile from Mecca (as my wife does) then you have every right to do so. But don't try to tell me that I have to believe that too. And don't tell your kids that this is the 'truth' before they are capable of understanding the full consequences of what you're instructing them to believe. A child is no more a jew, muslim, christian or hindu (or, indeed, an atheist) than he is a trade-unionist, neo-conservative or socialist. To indoctrinate a child in this way is nothing less than child abuse.


I can not remember who said it, regarding freedom of speech: "While I may never agree with neither your arguments nor your sentiments - I would happily lay down my life for your right to have them!" (adlibed by myself with an allowance for artistical expression (my memory is a bit murky)).

I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

(Exact wording subject to the vagaries of translation from French into English, and the fact he was known to say it more than once using different phraseology)

[Grahameeboy]

if we REALLY respected the beliefs of others, we'd end up with a squillion more public holidays and every friday arvo off ...... sooooooo - i'm in favour!! :msn-wink:

Oh you mean how we all look forward to Whitanga Day even though the majority of Kiwi's don't respect the essence of the day....

[Mikkel]

Oh, I fully support the right to believe whatever you like, provided (and this is the bit that most believers cannot accept) that you do not try to force those beliefs on others, including their children. But there is absolutely no reason that I should respect those beliefs, and refrain from questioning them or ridiculing them or acting in a way that is contrary to them, simply because you believe them.

If you choose to believe that there is an omniscient, omnipotent god and his messenger was an illiterate paedophile from Mecca (as my wife does) then you have every right to do so. But don't try to tell me that I have to believe that too. And don't tell your kids that this is the 'truth' before they are capable of understanding the full consequences of what you're instructing them to believe. A child is no more a jew, muslim, christian or hindu (or, indeed, an atheist) than he is a trade-unionist, neo-conservative or socialist. To indoctrinate a child in this way is nothing less than child abuse.

In that case we agree most wholeheartedly. Indoctrination is a very bad thing indeed!


I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
- Voltaire

(Exact wording subject to the vagaries of translation from French into English, and the fact he was known to say it more than once using different phraseology)

Sanx ;)

[Badjelly]

You HAVE to respect other peoples right to HOLD a certain belief. Quite simply you HAVE to do this if you want other people to respect your right to choose what to believe.

However, that is not the same thing as you having to respect THAT belief in particular. Nor do you have to respect the individual for choosing that particular belief.

Nice one, Mikkel. I couldn't have put it better myself.


If you choose to believe that there is an omniscient, omnipotent god and his messenger was an illiterate paedophile from Mecca (as my wife does) then you have every right to do so.

So, how does that play out in your household?

[Sanx]

So, how does that play out in your household?

There have been some heated debates, certainly.

[Badjelly]

This whole "respect" thing is a minefield. Apparently, if someone tells me he/she believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) and I say "Yeah sure" and walk away (which is probably what I would do) then I am respecting that person's beliefs. But if I stop and say that I see no reason to believe in the FSM and, furthermore, that I find it unreasonable to believe (as this person does) that the FSM is simultaneously omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent, but also capricious and frequently cruel, then that is showing disrespect. I think it's the other way round. Disagreeing with someone can be a sign of respect; patting them on the head and saying "Yeah sure" isn't.

[Mikkel]

This whole "respect" thing is a minefield. Apparently, if someone tells me he/she believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) and I say "Yeah sure" and walk away (which is probably what I would do) then I am respecting that person's beliefs. But if I stop and say that I see no reason to believe in the FSM and, furthermore, that I find it unreasonable to believe (as this person does) that the FSM is simultaneously omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent, but also capricious and frequently cruel, then that is showing disrespect. I think it's the other way round. Disagreeing with someone can be a sign of respect; patting them on the head and saying "Yeah sure" isn't.

:scratch:

A bit messy your post is. But I think I can respect it nonetheless :)

[Badjelly]

A bit messy your post is. But I think I can respect it nonetheless

Yeah sure.

[chrisso]

its no different in Australia- Im not allowed in the Bank with my helmet on so why is a Muslim women allowed in with her Kebab Wrapper on??:devil2:

[Hitcher]

I will now exercise my right to leave the country and leave you banjo pickers to it.

Adieu.

[James Deuce]

Watch out for the eight egg breakfast!

[Niterider]

NZ has one of the highest populations of people with an atheist/agnostic religious stance.

I think you may be right with this assumption, but just because most people in the 4th century believed that the earth was flat :shit:, shows that the majority is not always right.:shutup:


I really dont think god is that much a part of our culture.
However true, this is going to cost us big time in the end. Ignorance is no excuse for His law :done:...hope the people of NZ wake up :soon: before it's too late.

[James Deuce]

There's an imaginary friend thread. Use it.

[Niterider]

There's a "shaking head" :lol: one too... help yerself.

[James Deuce]

Robust Religious Debate, including oblique reference to one's imaginary friend of choice is confined to the following thread:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=3026&highlight=Religious+Ravings

If you want to start up a Christian Bikers web site of your own, please feel free. Or Bhuddist, or Muslim, or Socialist. You won't find me popping in to your website to lament your obvious delusional state. It's disrespectful.

I am happy to consign myself to whatever hell you imagine I deserve because of my obvious stupidity in not accepting your rejoinder to "help" myself.

[RDJ]

Example please.


England
Norway
Sweden
Holland
etc.

[scracha]

I will now exercise my right to leave the country and leave you banjo pickers to it.

Adieu.
Aside from the racist $hite posted on this thread, I'm laughing at the banjo pickers who have to put down their fellow Kiwi's for fucking off to Ozzie to make a better life for themselves. Perhaps if they got off their own arses the wages here would be similar?

[Sanx]

However true, this is going to cost us big time in the end. Ignorance is no excuse for His law ...hope the people of NZ wake up before it's too late.

This'll be that benevolent imaginary friend, yes? Kind, loving, and only too ready to punish for eternity for the crime of using something that the imaginary friend gave us, apparently: free will.

But the intellectually-impaired have never quite managed to get that paradox.

[Marmoot]

Just to remind, this topic was about immigration and Not religions.

[avgas]

I thought God save the Queen was our motto...
He did and that is why we are paying for it now.
What would happen if the crown collapsed? Waitangi Tribunal? Armed forces of NZ?

I thought the letter was quite ammusing - but there are parts of it wrong.
God bless american, tane bless NZ.
We speak English and Maori - not one or the other, i have never been to Maori town, where they only speak Maori. And i used to work in a bar called "the kumara pit". Maori is our national language like Rotorua is our national smell - its there we live with it but the whole country is not accustomed to it.

The rest of it is pretty much on the mark.

[avgas]

This whole "respect" thing is a minefield. Apparently, if someone tells me he/she believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster) and I say "Yeah sure" and walk away (which is probably what I would do) then I am respecting that person's beliefs. But if I stop and say that I see no reason to believe in the FSM and, furthermore, that I find it unreasonable to believe (as this person does) that the FSM is simultaneously omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent, but also capricious and frequently cruel, then that is showing disrespect. I think it's the other way round. Disagreeing with someone can be a sign of respect; patting them on the head and saying "Yeah sure" isn't.
Hmmm depends - does their religion require them no to show you their face? or respect your religious beliefs? do they force their Flying Spaghettin Monster masters beliefs upon you?

You must remember there is religeon, and their is being an asshole

[James Deuce]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=3026&highlight=religious&page=686

[avgas]

Why, you respect whether or not you agree with their beliefs
Use the 3 year old rule:
- what a 3 year old does not know, does not hurt them.
- what a 3 year old does not know they are doing wrong, they do not get in trouble.
- the less you understand, the more you know.

Only a religious person can respect or disrespect a religion, so with that eliminated it is only personal issues that make the choice of which way they turn.
I find it hard to believe that religions can't co-exist together, but i can guarantee that people cant co-exist together. Blaming religion for all your faults is the oldest excuse in the books.
Always i am right you are wrong - if you and i were 3 years old, we are both wrong.

[avgas]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=3026&highlight=religious&page=686
haha the tags in that good old thread crack me up.........i miss Zed

[Grahameeboy]

Use the 3 year old rule:
- what a 3 year old does not know, does not hurt them.
- what a 3 year old does not know they are doing wrong, they do not get in trouble.
- the less you understand, the more you know.

Only a religious person can respect or disrespect a religion, so with that eliminated it is only personal issues that make the choice of which way they turn.
I find it hard to believe that religions can't co-exist together, but i can guarantee that people cant co-exist together. Blaming religion for all your faults is the oldest excuse in the books.
Always i am right you are wrong - if you and i were 3 years old, we are both wrong.

That is a very generalised view.

As a Christian we respect other religions and generally co-exist.

Who is blaming religion?

[jrandom]

As a Christian we respect other religions and generally co-exist.

*falls off chair laughing*

[Grahameeboy]

*falls off chair laughing*

well at least you are doing something Sir:cool:

[jrandom]

well at least you are doing something Sir:cool:

Does the lack of a meaningful response to my levity indicate that you agree that your statement was laughable?

[Grahameeboy]

Does the lack of a meaningful response to my levity indicate that you agree that your statement was laughable?

No....it may have been laughable to you and not to others...that's life...

One does not always have to come up with a meaningful response.......ask the Borg

[jrandom]

One does not always have to come up with a meaningful response...

You just carry on letting that that philosophy work for you, then, old bean.

:niceone:

[Grahameeboy]

You just carry on letting that that philosophy work for you, then, old bean.

:niceone:

I will Sir.....enjoy your weekend

[avgas]

As a Christian we respect other religions and generally co-exist.
does this make it look more american?

[Grahameeboy]

does this make it look more american?

Dunno, what do you reckon?

[scracha]

As a Christian we respect other religions and generally co-exist.


C'mon. Never mind other religions. The proddy's can't even get on with the coo's-licks.

[Grahameeboy]

C'mon. Never mind other religions. The proddy's can't even get on with the coo's-licks.

In Northern Ireland it was not that simple and they co-exist now

[Flatcap]

In Northern Ireland it was not that simple and they co-exist now

Only because the Yanks stopped funding the IRA after September 11

[98tls]

Only because the Yanks stopped funding the IRA after September 11 They must have fired blanks for a few years then.:laugh:

[Oscar]

Biggest bullshit I've ever read. :wacko:
Your so-called "own culture" is British colonisation. The real New Zealand culture was stamped down the moment you immigrants from Britain set foot on this land. Those who sought freedom were killed and stamped as Maori cannibals.
I'd rather have 1000 burqa-wearing arabic-speaking immigrants that works their asses off and pays their taxes, than 10 "new zealanders" that bludge the dole or ones that skip the tasman ditch to Australia for better money.

You can't eat 'national pride', but you CAN eat chinese food.

Your Nationality concept is skewed and bigotted.
...And worse if it is really a copy-and-paste job from some Americans.

This is a great unconscious irony.
You use a racist attack when you accuse someone else of racism!
Did it hurt when you stood on yer own tongue, Dude?!

What an idjut...

[Oscar]

Beat this...

Working, middle-class, chinese, under-25, bike-rider, honda car boy-racer, heterosexual, recent graduate.

Beats your score by 5 :)

Immigrants may have the upper hands at times, but not chinese.
There, I SAID THE C WORD!

The government targeting order is as follows:
- Immigrants - Chinese (arriving after 1890 AD)
- John Key
- Immigrants - Asian origin (arriving after 1990)
- Immigration Officers and Corrections Department Staff Members
- Immigrants - Pacific Islands (post 2005 and overstayers, diabetics excluded)
- Immigrants - Misc. other than UK and Germany
- Native New Zealand (i.e., Pakeha)
- The Holy Maori Tribes (Caution: may trigger possibility of referendums and change of government)


So bearing in mind your (racist) attack on white NZers, how do you feel about several millennia of Chinese colonialism? Their latest effort in Tibet is a lot more racist and genocidal than the Brits ever dreamed of...

[98tls]

So bearing in mind your (racist) attack on white NZers, how do you feel about several millennia of Chinese colonialism? Their latest effort in Tibet is a lot more racist and genocidal than the Brits ever dreamed of...
:no:You cant say that,its only white NZers that are racist.

[Oscar]

:no:You cant say that,its only white NZers that are racist.

I'm white, and a NZer.

I got my head cracked on several occasions in 1981 for trying to do something about racism.

Was I wasting my time?

[Marmoot]

So bearing in mind your (racist) attack on white NZers, how do you feel about several millennia of Chinese colonialism? Their latest effort in Tibet is a lot more racist and genocidal than the Brits ever dreamed of...

what's racist about asian killing asian?

[Marmoot]

Originally Posted by Marmoot
Biggest bullshit I've ever read.
Your so-called "own culture" is British colonisation. The real New Zealand culture was stamped down the moment you immigrants from Britain set foot on this land. Those who sought freedom were killed and stamped as Maori cannibals.
I'd rather have 1000 burqa-wearing arabic-speaking immigrants that works their asses off and pays their taxes, than 10 "new zealanders" that bludge the dole or ones that skip the tasman ditch to Australia for better money.

You can't eat 'national pride', but you CAN eat chinese food.

Your Nationality concept is skewed and bigotted.
...And worse if it is really a copy-and-paste job from some Americans.
This is a great unconscious irony.
You use a racist attack when you accuse someone else of racism!
Did it hurt when you stood on yer own tongue, Dude?!

What an idjut...

1. What is an 'idjut'?
2. Please read my original post in context as a reply to the first post of this thread, to point out the writer's anomalies.
3. Where was the racist element in that post?

It seems to me you might have been offended by your self-perceived "racism attack" against Pakeha simply because the post wasn't authored by a Pakeha while the content pointed out a blemish in NZ Pakeha history?

It also seems that your ability to relate your responses (x2) to my posts and their contexts simply lacking.
Perhaps you need to stop smoking your ganja cigar

[Grahameeboy]

Only because the Yanks stopped funding the IRA after September 11

Nop cause the IRA had basically handed all guns in by then...the Sinn Fein were the ones who used the religious angle

[Grahameeboy]

I'm white, and a NZer.

I got my head cracked on several occasions in 1981 for trying to do something about racism.

Was I wasting my time?

No...................

[Oscar]

what's racist about asian killing asian?

So the Chinese genocide is OK based on the fact it's only Asians killing Asians?
Are you saying that there is bo racial or cultural difference between China & Tibet?

[Oscar]

1. What is an 'idjut'?
2. Please read my original post in context as a reply to the first post of this thread, to point out the writer's anomalies.
3. Where was the racist element in that post?

It seems to me you might have been offended by your self-perceived "racism attack" against Pakeha simply because the post wasn't authored by a Pakeha while the content pointed out a blemish in NZ Pakeha history?

It also seems that your ability to relate your responses (x2) to my posts and their contexts simply lacking.
Perhaps you need to stop smoking your ganja cigar

You use a line like:

"Your so-called "own culture" is British colonisation."

...and claim it isn't racist?

You are an idjut.

[Marmoot]

So the Chinese genocide is OK based on the fact it's only Asians killing Asians?
Are you saying that there is bo racial or cultural difference between China & Tibet?

My question is, where is the RACISM in Asian killing Asian?

[Marmoot]

You use a line like:

"Your so-called "own culture" is British colonisation."

...and claim it isn't racist?

You are an idjut.

1. What the fuck is an "idjut"?

2. The "own culture" refers to the perceived "NZ Culture" written in the first post of this thread, in which they claim that the current culture is native to NZ and that every immigrants should not retain their rights to their culture when they step on NZ soil, while the reality is that even this "NZ own culture" he talked about is an Immigrant Culture brought by colonist that failed to integrate/assimilate/whatever into the NZ society.
I wasn't talking about your (i.e., Oscar's) culture. Nobody fucking cares about your (i.e., Oscar's) real culture...it has never been featured in this thread.

Stop thinking that everyone is talking about you. The truth is no one cares.

P.S.
if you still don't understand this post, you might be an idiot.

[Sanx]

1. What the fuck is an "idjut"?

A phonetic spelling of idiot. Should have been fairly obvious.


2. The "own culture" refers to the perceived "NZ Culture" written in the first post of this thread, in which they claim that the current culture is native to NZ and that every immigrants should not retain their rights to their culture when they step on NZ soil, while the reality is that even this "NZ own culture" he talked about is an Immigrant Culture brought by colonist that failed to integrate/assimilate/whatever into the NZ society.
I wasn't talking about your (i.e., Oscar's) culture. Nobody fucking cares about your (i.e., Oscar's) real culture...it has never been featured in this thread.

Whether or not Maori had a cohesive culture prior to colonisation is debatable. There were certainly many differences in language and practices from one iwi to another. And they spent half of their time wiping each other out for fun. When white colonists got here, they found a feudal stone-age culture with no written word, where cannabalism, slavery and internecine wars were commonplace. The colonists, with a fair amount of legitimacy, felt their culture was superior and tried to force it on the inhabitants. Whether that was right or wrong is not relevant - it happened.

The dominant NZ culture today is a combination of white european beliefs and ideals evolved from Victorian English morals, combined with a smattering of Maori and polynesian customs. If you want to abandon that culture, you're more than welcome. Turn off the computer, give away your bike, throw away your clothes and tools, build a mud hut, weave some flax skirts and catch fish from a canoe you've shaped using nothing more than a sharpened store.


My question is, where is the RACISM in Asian killing Asian

The racism isn't in the act of killing, but rather in your grouping together of two distinct cultures and ethnic groups under the term asian, presumably because they all have slitty eyes. Tibetans and Han Chinese are quite different; different language, different culture, different ethnic and dominant genetic makeup. To describe both ethnic Tibetans and Han Chinese as 'asian' and assume therefore that they're the same is analagous to me claiming there's no difference between Maori and Tongans, for instance.

Which is all a bit idjutic.

[Sanx]

Nop cause the IRA had basically handed all guns in by then

No it bloody wasn't. The IRA had not handed anything in (and still haven't in fact). The trigger was George Dubya Shrub's speech about denying terrorists funding and shelter. After 25+ years of the Brits asking the yanks to declare the IRA a terrorist organisation to stop the considerable flow of money (and support) from Irish enclaves like Boston, Chicago and New York via NORAID, it couldn't be seen for the yanks to allow terrorist funding for some but not others, especially if they wanted allies in their war on terror.

So the funding did dry up virtually immediately, the IRA was declared a terrorist organisation thus making donation of money a criminal offence and removing campaign platforms from leading IRA and Sinn Fein figures. And lastly, 9/11 did change people's acceptance of acts of violence. The IRA and Sinn Fein were bright enough to realise that they weren't going to be able to continue in the same vein and started seriously talking about peace. Weapons were never handed in, but under the oversight of a UN-appointed Canadian general, together with witnesses from both the Protestant and Catholic church, the weapons were 'permanently rendered beyond use' (a phrase that took months of negotiations to agree upon) by the simple expendient of digging a big hole, throwing them in and pouring tonnes of concrete over them.

[Grahameeboy]

No it bloody wasn't. The IRA had not handed anything in (and still haven't in fact). The trigger was George Dubya Shrub's speech about denying terrorists funding and shelter. After 25+ years of the Brits asking the yanks to declare the IRA a terrorist organisation to stop the considerable flow of money (and support) from Irish enclaves like Boston, Chicago and New York via NORAID, it couldn't be seen for the yanks to allow terrorist funding for some but not others, especially if they wanted allies in their war on terror.

So the funding did dry up virtually immediately, the IRA was declared a terrorist organisation thus making donation of money a criminal offence and removing campaign platforms from leading IRA and Sinn Fein figures. And lastly, 9/11 did change people's acceptance of acts of violence. The IRA and Sinn Fein were bright enough to realise that they weren't going to be able to continue in the same vein and started seriously talking about peace. Weapons were never handed in, but under the oversight of a UN-appointed Canadian general, together with witnesses from both the Protestant and Catholic church, the weapons were 'permanently rendered beyond use' (a phrase that took months of negotiations to agree upon) by the simple expendient of digging a big hole, throwing them in and pouring tonnes of concrete over them.

The Peace Process
The move was also hastened by a series of disastrous IRA attacks, including the killing of people attending a Remembrance Day ceremony in Enniskillen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enniskillen). Multi-party negotiations began in 1994, without Sinn Féin. The Provisional IRA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provisional_IRA) declared a ceasefire in the autumn of 1994. The Conservative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_%28UK%29) government had asked that the IRA decommission all of their weapons before Sinn Féin be admitted to the talks, but the Labour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_Party_%28UK%29) government of Tony Blair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Blair) let them in on the basis of the ceasefire.

Source - Wiki

9/11 just stopped American tolerance for funding...the elements were already in place.

[scracha]

Source - Wiki

9/11 just stopped American tolerance for funding...the elements were already in place.

Have you been there or are you just getting your (mis)information from Newspapers? Pop over to Londonderry, refer to the country as "Ulster" (hell, refer to it as Londonderry instead of Derry) and see how peace is working at the ground level. Every British and US leader has supposedly achieved a more peaceful Northern Ireland. Besides, the point I made originally was that Christian denominations can't get on with one another, never mind "other" religions. Today's "ceasefire" (I won't say peace) in Northern Ireland has more to do with rising house prices than anything Tony Blair or the Clinton's ever managed.

[Badcat]

search "pat condell" on itunes.
podcast about religious PC gone mad in the UK.

[Marmoot]

To describe both ethnic Tibetans and Han Chinese as 'asian' and assume therefore that they're the same is analagous to me claiming there's no difference between Maori and Tongans, for instance.

Irelevant. To describe ethnic tibetans and han chinese as asians is factually true.

Plus the matter of fact that the Chinese quarell with the Tibetans are based on nationalities regardless of which ethnics in China (it's not only ethnic Han) wants Tibet and which ethnics in Tibet wants to be free.

---

But coming back to the original topic, it is very hypocritical for NZ society to claim that these recent immigrants should integrate/assimmilate/etc while when NZ as a nation originally was constructed from (as you have said) combination of beliefs and ideas.

What is more debatable is the fact that New Zealand as a nation says the true culture of NZ is Maori Culture, Maori Language, Maori Arts, etc (check out your tourism booklets) while in reality how many of Pakehas can speak Maori and understand Maori culture? It is simply pretentious.

Perhaps we should either own up and say
"those tourism propaganda isn't true and our culture is British" (effectively making true my assumption that original settlers were unable to integrate to the local NZ culture),
or "our culture is indeed Maori but so many of so-called-kiwis currently still fail to integrate/assimmilate/etc themselves" (effectively making true my assumption that those saying immigrants should integrate are immigrants that fail to integrate themselves).

Either way you take it, it makes the original letter posted in the 1st post of this thread sounds idiotic and redneck-ignorant. Which was the point of my original post.

[MisterD]

Irelevant. To describe ethnic tibetans and han chinese as asians is factually true.

That's a fucking stupid argument, and you know it. No different from me (as a pom) calling an Italian a "wop" and claiming it isn't racist because we're both European.

[Drew]

That's a fucking stupid argument, and you know it. No different from me (as a pom) calling an Italian a "wop" and claiming it isn't racist because we're both European.

Indians call themselves asian.

[Oscar]

Indians call themselves asian.

English, French, Greek and Russians call themselves European.

[MisterD]

That's because India in in Asia...fwiw, if you say "Asian" to most Brits they'll assume you mean Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi/Sri Lankan

[Sanx]

Irelevant. To describe ethnic tibetans and han chinese as asians is factually true.

Plus the matter of fact that the Chinese quarell with the Tibetans are based on nationalities regardless of which ethnics in China (it's not only ethnic Han) wants Tibet and which ethnics in Tibet wants to be free.

Whilst ethnic Tibetans and Han Chinese are regarded as 'asians' by the west, they would not regard themselves as the same. And how they regard themselves is what matters.

---


But coming back to the original topic, it is very hypocritical for NZ society to claim that these recent immigrants should integrate/assimmilate/etc while when NZ as a nation originally was constructed from (as you have said) combination of beliefs and ideas.

The predominant culture in NZ is a western european one and has been so for more than one hundred years. The country's laws, customs and language reflect this. Whilst cultures do change and evolve over time, it is not the place of new immigrants to this country to demand that laws and customs change to reflect their beliefs. You might regard that as hypocritical, given that the first europeans to land on these shores did exactly that, but the world has moved on a long way since then; something Maori would do well to remember occasionally.


What is more debatable is the fact that New Zealand as a nation says the true culture of NZ is Maori Culture, Maori Language, Maori Arts, etc (check out your tourism booklets) while in reality how many of Pakehas can speak Maori and understand Maori culture? It is simply pretentious.

Who says that? I've never seen NZ being referred to like that. Tourist information generally refers to a mixed European and Maori culture (here (http://www.newzealand.com/travel/about-nz/history/history-home.cfm), for instance). You might get some brochures in Maori tourist enclaves that like to portray NZ as exclusively Maori (whilst pushing whatever tired cultural show they're selling) but the pretension is on the Maori side, not the country as a whole.


Either way you take it, it makes the original letter posted in the 1st post of this thread sounds idiotic and redneck-ignorant. Which was the point of my original post.

The first post was daft, purely and simply because it was a very poor modification of some ignorant yank rant about immigrants. But it is interesting to note that it is only Western countries that make any allowance for immigrants. Almost every other country in the world (rightly) expects immigrants to fit in with the prevalent culture and laws; not have them modified to fit their own beliefs. Try going sunbathing on a beach in Saudi, or holding a pro-democracy march in China, or launching an anti-government newspaper in Russia, or launching a pro-Jewish pressure group in Malaysia...

One of the very few exceptions is Dubai, where the ruling family decided a long time ago that given their oil reserves were nowhere near as big as their neighbours, the only way they could ensure the future wealth of the Emirate was to re-invent the country as the financial and commercial hub of the middle-east. So they invested massively in infrastructure, actively sought westerners to base businesses there and encouraged westerners to live there; having a 0% income tax rate helped. And to make the country further acceptable to the people they wished to attract, they relaxed the law that governed alcohol, gambling and un-Islamic behaviour. They now simply ask that tourists and foreigners living in Dubai respect that it is a Muslim country and ask visitors not to behave in a manner that may offend. But the push for a change of culture came from the ruling family of the country itself, not the people who went there.

[skidMark]

I still blame canada.

[skidMark]

Indians call themselves asian.


South asian holmes.

[Marmoot]

But it is interesting to note that it is only Western countries that make any allowance for immigrants. Almost every other country in the world (rightly) expects immigrants to fit in with the prevalent culture and laws; not have them modified to fit their own beliefs. Try going sunbathing on a beach in Saudi, or holding a pro-democracy march in China, or launching an anti-government newspaper in Russia, or launching a pro-Jewish pressure group in Malaysia...



So ...you wish NZ and other western countries to be like that too?

nice

[MisterD]

Well the French seem to take this stuff seriously...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10521586

[Mikkel]

Well the French seem to take this stuff seriously...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10521586

Very interesting article!

It's a problematic issue... At least the PC glove came off on this occassion - whether the ruling is Right[TM] or Wrong[TM] is hard to say though. Religious freedom is as important as the other rights of freedom - on the other hand you can make a valid case for her not integrating in the society by observing a certain religious doctrine.

[Badjelly]

But coming back to the original topic...
There was an original topic? :zzzz:

[MSTRS]

So ...you wish NZ and other western countries to be like that too?

nice

Culture develops. It is not imposed by decree.
I will change/adjust to you and your ideas in time, as you change/adjust to mine. But tell me what to do in my home, and I'm likely to tell you to 'go (back to your) home'.

I've not commented in this thread before, and much as the OP can be considered distasteful, the premise is totally understandable. I choose to read it's message as I said above.

[avgas]

:no:You cant say that,its only white NZers that are racist.
Tis true, you cant call a black racist - they are "hard done by, and bitter" - i read it on a voting form.

[avgas]

I'm white, and a NZer.

I got my head cracked on several occasions in 1981 for trying to do something about racism.

Was I wasting my time?
Yep - you were giving bandaids and panadol to the worlds biggest whiner. All the people who didn't think you were racists thought that before.
The real racists out there never stopped, infact they have increased since then.
Sad thing is it is THEY who are the minority, but the racists and the victims are the loudest minority.

[NOMIS]

No, it's not.

Someone did a search-and-replace to change 'The United States of America' to 'New Zealand'.

Did you read that bullshit before pasting and posting it?

The national character of this country has nothing to do with the chest-beating redneck drivel in that editorial.



You will note how odd this part of the search-and-replace plagiarism sounds.

The Southern Cross is not the Stars and Stripes, and is not used for the sort of masturbatory jingoistic nonsense that the American flag is.

For that matter, the Southern Cross isn't even a flag. It's a fucking constellation, a representation of which is used on both the NZ and Australian flags. And if you don't like it, best you don't move anywhere in the southern hemisphere...



:laugh:

Please tell me that this is a troll, firefighter, and that you're not actually as stupid as you'd have to be to paste it in earnest.



Some one for got there medication...

[mstriumph]

..........A child is no more a jew, muslim, christian or hindu (or, indeed, an atheist) than he is a trade-unionist, neo-conservative or socialist. To indoctrinate a child in this way is nothing less than child abuse............


i agree totally -------- and i'd also include under the heading of abuse anyone who tries to tell a child they can't do or aspire to this that or the other just because of their gender ..............

...... comes the revolution ......:bash:

[awayatc]

Boys should not be discouraged from motherhood ?:gob:

[James Deuce]

Women also from Fatherhood. No good comes of it.

[Sanx]

Boys should not be discouraged from motherhood ?:gob:

They probably should, but it is possible (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18394621) but only to someone with exactly the right genetic code.

Trying to dissuade a boy from wanting to become the next Miss World is probably advisable. Just buy them a Honda instead.