Charging battery whilst still connected

[Morcs]

Is it possible to do?

Ive had battery problems of late, and even with a new battery I dont think it will be the end of it considering the TLs charging system is so crap.

Can I just hook up my charger to the terminals whilst everything it still connected?

If not can I do it with just disconnecting the -ve?

Just getting the bolts back in is a pain in the arse and I cannot be arsed.

-Steve.

[scumdog]

Of course you can I do it all the time.

Just don't try to start the bike or dick around with any electrics while the charger is hooked up as it will very likely blow the fuse on the charger - if it is so equiped.:(

[Morcs]

Of course you can I do it all the time.

Just don't try to start the bike or dick around with any electrics while the charger is hooked up as it will very likely blow the fuse on the charger - if it is so equiped.:(

Cool, thats all I needed to know.

Cheers Scumdog :niceone:

[scumdog]

Cool, thats all I needed to know.

Cheers Scumdog :niceone:

Just hook it up first then turn it on at the wall - less chance of sparks:shit:

[CookMySock]

Just use a little 4 amp charger and you will be fine. Don't use a massive 25A industrial one and put it on "boost" coz the regulator will get real hot.

It will possibly charge quicker if you disconnect it, as the regulator will start to shunt some of the chargers' current afer a while. Also be aware that automatic chargers might never show their "battery full" green light, because the bikes' regulator will clamp the voltage down (like it's supposed to do.)

If the battery fuse is handy I would just pull the fuse out. Shrug, its just the easy way.


HTH,
DB

[Winston001]

I've just bought a Battery Doctor (not the name on the box but its the same thing) to trickle charge my battery. It plugs into the power outlet accessory port and I'm told you can maintain a number of batteries at the same time with additional connectors.

I had to jump start the Duke once and that was a right pain, especially when I was running late. Take off lower fairing, mumblefarg.... mumblefarg......

So, I've purchased a couple of short ignition leads - probably only needed one for positive terminal but didn't want to shag around sparking off the frame for the earth. I'll clamp the leads to the battery and position them for easy access in future so no more mucking around with fairing screws etc.

[vifferman]

Just don't try to start the bike or dick around with any electrics while the charger is hooked up as it will very likely blow the fuse on the charger - if it is so equiped.:(
... and pay attention to what you're doing.
I had some handy-dandy quick-connect leads on my bike for plugging the battery charger into, but somehow managed to connect the wrong lead to it in an incestuous loop. Less than 2 seconds later it was smoking, and of course I couldn't unplug it, as it was too hot to handle.:buggerd:

[mowgli]

In the unlikely case that you battery is an old-style, non-sealed type then don't charge it without un-buttoning cowls/seat/fairing. Otherwise you could end up with a hydrogen fuelled BBQ between your legs when you next start her up :o

[Morcs]

In the unlikely case that you battery is an old-style, non-sealed type then don't charge it without un-buttoning cowls/seat/fairing. Otherwise you could end up with a hydrogen fuelled BBQ between your legs when you next start her up :o

Getting a new one today, so no worries there.


Just use a little 4 amp charger and you will be fine. Don't use a massive 25A industrial one and put it on "boost" coz the regulator will get real hot.

It will possibly charge quicker if you disconnect it, as the regulator will start to shunt some of the chargers' current afer a while. Also be aware that automatic chargers might never show their "battery full" green light, because the bikes' regulator will clamp the voltage down (like it's supposed to do.)

If the battery fuse is handy I would just pull the fuse out. Shrug, its just the easy way.


HTH,
DB

Mines one of those $30 jobbies from repco. its about the size of the battery itself. should be ok eh?

[mowgli]

Mines one of those $30 jobbies from repco. its about the size of the battery itself. should be ok eh?

Yep. Otherwise known as a trickle charger, you'll be fine.

[CookMySock]

Yep. Otherwise known as a trickle charger, you'll be fine.mowgli speaks teh truth!

DB

[MotoKuzzi]

[QUOTE=Morcs;1642759]Is it possible to do?


Can I just hook up my charger to the terminals whilst everything it still connected?

I asked this question a while ago in relation to the Guzzi and it's potential for a power surge to stuff the computer, general consensus seemed to be to play it safe and disconnect. The manual advises against jump starting and crash starting for the same reasons, otherwise I have charged all my vehicles over the years with everything still hooked up without probs.

[Max Preload]

I have a permanent flush mounted DC socket (http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=PS0522&CATID=35&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=651) on the side of my bike (mounted through a hole I drilled in the plastic) which is hard wired through a 10A fuse to the battery under the tank. I cut alligator clips off my 3500mA Projecta charge & maintain unit (http://www.projecta.com.au/catalogue/cid/3/asset_id/17) I use and put a 2-way connector (http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=PP2062&CATID=&keywords=pp2062&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=) plug on them and a socket on the charger lead so I could still use the alligator clips when need be for other batteries, and made up a new lead with the matching 2-way connector as well, and a DC plug (http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=PP0510&CATID=35&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=651) on the other end. This has the added bonus that not only can I charge through the DC socket, I can plug any 12V device in there too if I want (not that I've bothered yet).

[awayatc]

I have a permanent flush mounted DC socket (http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=PS0522&CATID=35&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=651) on the side of my bike (mounted through a hole I drilled in the plastic) which is hard wired through a 10A fuse to the battery under the tank. I cut alligator clips off my 3500mA Projecta charge & maintain unit (http://www.projecta.com.au/catalogue/cid/3/asset_id/17) I use and put a 2-way connector (http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=PP2062&CATID=&keywords=pp2062&SPECIAL=&form=KEYWORD&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=) plug on them and a socket on the charger lead so I could still use the alligator clips when need be for other batteries, and made up a new lead with the matching 2-way connector as well, and a DC plug (http://www.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=PP0510&CATID=35&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=651) on the other end. This has the added bonus that not only can I charge through the DC socket, I can plug any 12V device in there too if I want (not that I've bothered yet).


Excellent idea.... I may copy it on of these days......Thanks:clap:

[Max Preload]

Excellent idea.... I may copy it on of these days......Thanks:clap:

It is quite handy. I even made up a lead with the 2.1mm plug on it and banana plugs on the other end that plug into my multimeter, so I can measure battery condition by checking battery voltage while cranking without removing anything - that gives a good indication as to the battery serviceability. I'll make up a cigarette lighter socket to plug into it too before the 'Kiwi this year. It might come in useful for a light or cellphone charger...

[FJRider]

Or pump for the air bed...

[Max Preload]

Or pump for the air bed...

Now you're thinking! :2thumbsup

[Squiggles]

You could do some of the electrical mods listed on the tl forums, theres a charging one amoungst others

[davereid]

Its not a good idea to charge a battery while its connected to your bike, I'd suggest you disconnect the earth lead.

The reason is, that most motorcycles use a "Shunt" type of voltage regulator. These regulators are the modern equivalent of the zener diode used on older bikes, and indeed usually use a zener diode as part of their design.

A shunt regulator is a heat-sink which diverts excess energy from the charging system from the battery to to heat.

For reasons known only to the designers, they are often wired so they are connected across the battery, even when the key is is off.

If you attempt to charge a battery that has a shunt regulator across it, your charger will be working against the regulator.

Your charger DOES NOT produce DC. Its an AC device, with a rectifier. A recifier gives you a varying current, but with a peak voltage much higher than its rated output. This varying current flow is all travelling in the same direction, so it suitable for charging a battery.

That little 4-amp 13.8 volt rated charger you got from repco will actually have a peak output voltage of almost 19-20 volts.

50 times a second, your bikes regulator will attack that peak voltage, trying to turn it to heat.

If the charger is small enough, the regulator will win. It, and the charger will get hotter than normal, but you will get away with it. If the charger is too big the regulator will loose. Then the full charger voltage of up to 20 volts will be applied to your battery, and anything else in circuit at the time.

Bottom line ?

Take 20 seconds to take the earth lead off.

[jonbuoy]

Its not a good idea to charge a battery while its connected to your bike, I'd suggest you disconnect the earth lead.

The reason is, that most motorcycles use a "Shunt" type of voltage regulator. These regulators are the modern equivalent of the zener diode used on older bikes, and indeed usually use a zener diode as part of their design.

A shunt regulator is a heat-sink which diverts excess energy from the charging system from the battery to to heat.

For reasons known only to the designers, they are often wired so they are connected across the battery, even when the key is is off.

If you attempt to charge a battery that has a shunt regulator across it, your charger will be working against the regulator.

Your charger DOES NOT produce DC. Its an AC device, with a rectifier. A recifier gives you a varying current, but with a peak voltage much higher than its rated output. This varying current flow is all travelling in the same direction, so it suitable for charging a battery.

That little 4-amp 13.8 volt rated charger you got from repco will actually have a peak output voltage of almost 19-20 volts.

50 times a second, your bikes regulator will attack that peak voltage, trying to turn it to heat.

If the charger is small enough, the regulator will win. It, and the charger will get hotter than normal, but you will get away with it. If the charger is too big the regulator will loose. Then the full charger voltage of up to 20 volts will be applied to your battery, and anything else in circuit at the time.

Bottom line ?

Take 20 seconds to take the earth lead off.

A cheap charger will do that, they don't regulate the voltage much, a decent quality one will be current and voltage regulated. You can get battery tenders to hook up to your bike all the time your not there, as long as the output voltage is limited to around 13.8v your regulator won't be fighting it all the time. I wouldn't leave a cheapo one connected 24/7.

[Max Preload]

If the charger is small enough, the regulator will win. It, and the charger will get hotter than normal, but you will get away with it. If the charger is too big the regulator will loose. Then the full charger voltage of up to 20 volts will be applied to your battery, and anything else in circuit at the time.

That's fair enough, I guess. But why would you get 20V applied from the charger when the bike's regulator fails - a track to earth? Wouldn't the rectifier diode pack prevent that?

I don't claim to be the most clued up in the intricate details of electrics (I know enough to be dangerous...) but I know this. My bike is equiped with a 3-phase alternator which puts out 50V AC (presumably so that it doesn't have to deliver a higher voltage to clip at the 14.5V for the full waveform), which is rectified and regulated to ~14.5VDC. I presume it's rectified first, then regulated. So it's a steady DC. How is the charger different to that? Presumably it's only single phase, rectified and regulated to say 13.8VDCish. But isn't it too a steady delivery?

Also, the diagram below from the genuine Kawasaki workshop manual for my bike, shows 24VDC being applied to the regulator to test it. Of course, that's the normal flow of alternator output, but wouldn't the regulator be equipped to take the full output voltage of the alternator applied in either direction, so in my case at least 50V (shouldn't matter AC or DC I wouldn't think).


Take 20 seconds to take the earth lead off.

Not in my case - the battery is under the tank. It's not that simple - I should know - I had the starter solenoid stick ON one time and had to strip it to take the terminal off the battery while it cranked. That certainly gave the battery a good test. :yes: :lol:

[Skyryder]

I just bought myself one of these. $41 at Super Cheap on special.


http://store.voltelectronics.com.au/Items/16962?&caSKU=16962&caTitle=Battery%20Fighter%26reg%3B%20Super%20Smart %2012V%20SLA%20Battery%20Charger%20-%20750mA




Skyryder

[mark247]

Getting a new one today, so no worries there

If you are having charging problems, it might be a good idea to get the charging system fixed before you fully kill another new battery. I know when my reg / rec fried itself it fully killed my battery as well because i just kept running it fully dead again and again.

But in saying that, I dont really know what your exact charging problem is.