636 vs zx10 - which one to buy? [Archive]

zeocen

14th July 2008, 20:02

I know you're obviously fixed on the style of the ZX, otherwise you wouldn't have chosen the choice of ZX-10 and 636.. but, humour me and ponder this;

Have you considered the ER6F? Aside from the love/hate looks it has great pick up from the get-go and great mid range. IMO it has great pick up that would rival the 636 off the mark to about 80 - 100kmph (***IMO***, don't gun me down, correct me if I'm wrong!) and a more centralised mass which is killer for corners, it will eat up anything you throw at it. I have a full Givi set thrown on mine and it makes a *great* tourer. The seat needs to be changed on anything longer than 3 hours at a time, but the ass-hurties immediately go away while filling up for gas anyway.

I'll throw in a pic of mine with the Givi set up on it, looks a bit cumbersome but it still handles great and can carry a metric shitload.

Just so you know, before this I had a '92 ZZR1100 and then a CBR1100XX Blackbird, albeit both whales compared to the ZX-10, the manageable power from the ER6F and sheer flickability and fun it gives has made me shake my head at stepping up to litre bikes so fast. It makes me sad to think of the time I lost on the road, to think I could have been having this much fun in the first place.

I know you're obviously into your sport bikes, but take a step back and see if the ER6F looks are for you (they look and FEEL much better in person, go into a store and look at one).

/edit: I'm not discrediting ZX-10s or 636s, infact all ZX-10s ESPECIALLY the '08 model has the most comfortable riding position I have ever felt, it's almost euphoric. And I do love me some Ninja. In 5+ years I'll no doubt be getting one or another Blackbird but for now, I am just so happy on a 'do everything' bike. :sunny:

Quasievil

14th July 2008, 20:46

Go for the ZX10, dont get hung up on the speeds of both bikes, they will both kill ya ! the ZX10 is easier to ride as you can ride it very lazily with all the torque, therefore you can relax on it better, ie you dont have to rev and scream the engine to go anywhere.
Qualification ? I had the B1 and the C1 ZXr636 then went to the ZXr10 and the later was nicer to ride, AND it was more comfy than the 636.

its not the power of the bike that gets you in trouble, its whats in your head when you go for a ride that gets you in trouble.

CHOPPA

14th July 2008, 20:50

I have a gixer 1000 that i try not to ride cause im selling it but its the best thou i have ridden on the road, my old boy has the same bike he is 56 and rides it every weekend on long trips and the odd track day. You have to be being stupid to make the bike do something wrong.

But back to the 10 over the 6, dont worry about speed cause ridden right the 6 is just as fast on the road only a few second seperates them on tracks the problem with the 6 is you really have to ride them hard where the thou you dont have to shift all the time and work so hard and its nice to roll on in top to pass cars quick instead of slamming through gears. It sounds like im slamming 600s but i ride one and thats what i like to do and given your question id still say 10 but on the other hand a 600 compared to a 250 is gonna blow your mind anyway and there wouldnt be a better bike then the 636 on the road for the same money! Shame you missed out on the daytona cause although its a bit slow up top that would have been a cool choice

MaxCannon

14th July 2008, 20:54

I don't know how much riding experience you have but stepping from a 250 up to a 1000cc Superbike is a pretty huge leap.

A mate just bought a 2004 ZX10
He's been riding for a while and describes it as a scary fast.
Easy to ride but also easy to do double the limit with barely a twist of the throttle and 3 gears to go.
That level of power commands a lot of respect. Very easy to get it wrong and end up in a lot of trouble.
In my opinion it's a bit of a waste on public roads.

I can remember when I first got on my 400 after running around on the GN.
It has almost 3 times the HP, opened the throttle in second and got a surprise when it shot forward like a rocket.
After a couple of rides I got used to the power difference.
In comparission to a modern 600 my bike has less than half the HP and a lot more weight.

I believe the Zx10 will top 150kph in first so putting the throttle to the stop risks roadside loss of license.
Of your two choices I think the 636 is a better option. Still a whole heap of power and plenty quick enough.

cowboyz

14th July 2008, 21:13

I believe the Zx10 will top 150kph in first so putting the throttle to the stop risks roadside loss of license.
Of your two choices I think the 636 is a better option. Still a whole heap of power and plenty quick enough.

The ZX9r (mine) is REALLY tame compared to the new 10s. And I dont wind the throttle to the stop. ever. about 3/4 will result in a nice show off avatar pic.

Its true about the headspace thing. You can ride a thou without killing yourself. Must admit going from a gsx600F (the sport-tourer) to the ZX9r there has been a couple of moments where I blitz it on short striaghts between corners and found out I am going ALOT faster than I intended round the next corner.
But with improved acceleration comes improved handling so if you dont freak out with the bursts of power it should be fine. I have considered going for the 10 but to be honest the 9 does just the job I intend it to do on the road and I cant justify swapping it just yet.

wildpudding

14th July 2008, 21:26

Take both for a ride? Would be the first logical thing to do.

Stefan

cowboyz

14th July 2008, 22:24

and buy the one with the least damage?

jrandom

14th July 2008, 22:27

Doesn't matter which one you buy, you're gonna lose your licence and fall off and fuck yourself up.

So just buy the TEN. It's way cooler.

:niceone:

mxracer_nz

14th July 2008, 22:30

go with the zx10 man long trips the 1000s way better, they`re not an animal unless you ride it like one, i had a 05 zx10 as my 1st roadbike and loved it

jrandom

14th July 2008, 22:35

The 04/05 ZX-10R is a modern classic. One of those bikes that, when you're 60, you'll want to be able to say you owned back in the day.

636s are just another boring competent middleweight sportbike that nobody will remember two decades from now.

Just ask yourself: Is it not an inescapable fact that I want, nay, need, a bike that can do this:

xDACvcZ7MWI

Mikkel

15th July 2008, 09:26

Just ask yourself: Is it not an inescapable fact that I want, nay, need, a bike that can do this:

Even if I can't do that - yes! :yes:

jrandom

15th July 2008, 09:29

Even if I can't do that - yes! :yes:

Quite amazing to think that that was a girl riding, aye?

Mikkel

15th July 2008, 09:43

Quite amazing to think that that was a girl riding, aye?

Dunno. Are you hereby implying that women generally are less competent than men - or that they are less prone to showing off?

:devil2:

jrandom

15th July 2008, 09:54

Dunno. Are you hereby implying that women generally are less competent than men - or that they are less prone to showing off?

Not less competent, just generally more timid, but definitely less prone to showing off. The two are undoubtedly intertwined.

Women tend to have better fine motor control than men, as evidenced by sports like shooting and darts, but they also tend to not really give a toss about proving anything to anyone in those regards, so don't really leverage their innate superiority.

Of course, there are always exceptions to that rule. They're usually a bit weird, though.

:crazy:

Mikkel

15th July 2008, 09:56

Not less competent, just generally more timid, but definitely less prone to showing off. The two are undoubtedly intertwined.

Women tend to have better fine motor control than men, as evidenced by sports like shooting and darts, but they also tend to not really give a toss about proving anything to anyone in those regards, so don't really leverage their innate superiority.

Of course, there are always exceptions to that rule. They're usually a bit weird, though.

:crazy:

So are you by this saying that what we witness in the video are the actions of "not a proper lady" (imagine the voice of Graham Chapman here please)?

;)

jrandom

15th July 2008, 10:01

So are you by this saying that what we witness in the video are the actions of "not a proper lady"...

Oh, she's definitely 'not a proper lady'.

:love:

Mikkel

15th July 2008, 10:17

Oh, she's definitely 'not a proper lady'.

:love:

Is that in the meaning "woman yes, lady no"? Or are you drooling over kiwifruit again?

:chase:

avgas

15th July 2008, 10:29

Yeah buy the ZX10 - we dont like your kind on this planet

2Slow50

15th July 2008, 13:02

I recently went from a fzr-r250 to an 06 r6 and found the transition easy to coupe with. I know the torque of the thousands is a LOT more and would take a bit more to get used to.. I personally feel like I made the right choice, I'm blown away by the power of the bike when you wind it up, but its not uncontrollable... My older brother used to own and r1 and said that he found my r6 nicer to ride around the twisties etc...

Think about this too.. going from a 250cc to 600cc, you are going to have a hell of a lot of fun during the transition etc. Then down the track when you go from a 600cc to a thou your going to get this same enjoyment again. However, if you go straight to the thou, you will miss out on that transition between a 250-600cc (this may or may not bother you, I'm not sure..)

my 2c, go for the 600..

steelestring

15th July 2008, 15:38

2Slow50's right! Twice as much fun doing the jump up twice! I cant wait to jump up to the 600 mark. Maybe better on the insurance too? and better on the gas.:pinch:

Gremlin

16th July 2008, 02:58

Ok. 1000cc sportsbikes and drivers licences are mutually exclusive. You can have one or the other but not both.
You might have more fun on the 600 AND keep the speed down.
Hey! I have my license back! AND the zx10 :yes: Mind you, you rode the 10, so believe me people, he does know what he talks about re license on the 10.

Mr J: mmm I should hire you to write the blurb to sell my 10 :rockon:

blue eyed savage: I'm not sure how big you are physically, but I'm 6'3, owned my 04 zx10 for over a year, and certainly wouldn't rank it as a long distance bike. Power wise, it certainly can cruise at 110 without effort... besides constantly keeping the speed creep under control. Other than that, its a kick arse bike, absolute thrill to ride - if speed limits didn't exist.

Hell... what am I saying... buy me 10 :D

jrandom

16th July 2008, 07:41

he does know what he talks about re license on the 10.

Pfft.

Runners ftw.

:yes:

Marmoot

16th July 2008, 11:58

i ride ever day and do long trips all the time.

Litre bikes will suit your style better. They are easier to do long distance on, and usable torque at the bottom end allows you to be lazy on the gears which is a bliss for overtaking.

Those who maintains that 600 is more humane than 1000 need a throttle-limiter or right-wrist-controller embedded into their brain.

Treat every bike with respect and you'd be fine.

justsomeguy

16th July 2008, 16:45

Those who maintains that 600 is more humane than 1000 need a throttle-limiter or right-wrist-controller embedded into their brain.

Treat every bike with respect and you'd be fine.

Mate, that's like asking a fat person on a diet to buy a bag of potato crisps and eat only one....

Savage chap - don't listen to us. Go ride the two bikes, give it a bit of a twist and see how many hairs on the back of your neck standup. Happy enough with the result? Buy that bike.

The 636 is a great bike. The ZX10 is a ROTTEN DEVILISH CREATION:love:.

The 10 isn't for newbies. Make sure you've got brains that work. Or else you may end up in hospital.

blue eyed savage

16th July 2008, 23:08

Thanks to everyone who replied to my topic with relevant comments - its the sort of info I was looking for.
still got time to think it but like the sound of the 10.
i might just have to get an old zx250 as a "fun" bike for the twistys.
and yes i have take a few bigger bikes for rides. the 250 is more a licence thing but still good to ride

EJT

17th July 2008, 07:18

I reckon the 636. You can do everything on the road you need to, and it will make you a better rider in the long run not having to worry so much about ending up in the ditch after high siding.

The 04 ZX10R has a deserved reputation as an animal bike - hell even Kawasaki advertised it as a bike for experienced riders. That is not to say it won't be a bloody lot of fun for you.

But if you're just going to cruise around you might as well get the cheaper bike to run and insure etc...

avgas

18th July 2008, 12:59

Get Dodge tommahawk you nancy

Gremlin

19th July 2008, 02:54

Pfft.

Runners ftw.
Thats cause you shortly won't have a license to lose aye? :doh:

Meeeee on the other hand... I just got it back... its lovely, ride whenever, and anything I like :bleh:

savage: another point... be prepared to pay, if you get a 10... them be expensive creatures to run. Tyres never seem to last, chain/sprockets don't either, not to mention tickets and all that crap <_<

boomer

19th July 2008, 09:12

Thats cause you shortly won't have a license to lose aye? :doh:

Meeeee on the other hand... I just got it back... its lovely, ride whenever, and anything I like :bleh:

savage: another point... be prepared to pay, if you get a 10... them be expensive creatures to run. Tyres never seem to last, chain/sprockets don't either, not to mention tickets and all that crap <_<

if you ride the biek smoothly then the chain and sprockets will last;

jrandom

19th July 2008, 09:27

if you ride the biek slowly then the chain and sprockets will last;

We can't all be like you, boomer.

boomer

19th July 2008, 09:50

We can't all be like you, boomer.

you can if you try.

Firstly get rid of your defeatest attitude
Secondly, go and practice riding on a track. Be smooth, know what you and teh bike are doing

learn the brakes
learn the angles
learn the clutch, the throttle

Be aware of your surroundings.
Learn from others

then, you'll soon realise that waffling all day on a web site isn't that productive and getting out there and doing it you too can be smooth, less of a danger to other s and yourself and less prone to crashing others bikes ... :done:

jrandom

19th July 2008, 09:53

getting out there and doing it

How many km you got on that thou so far, bro? We can all only dream of matching your mileage.

:msn-wink:

less prone to crashing others bikes ...

Just tickin' the boxes, man. I've still got to tick the one labelled "Gets run over by his own bike shortly thereafter", though.

:lol:

Brett

19th July 2008, 09:54

We can't all be like you, boomer.

What...slow?:bleh: *runs and hides*

Savage, I agree with the general consensus. The ZX10 - especially the 04 model, are very savage machines not very forgiving when the odd mistake or slip up occurs when you may have had a temporary laps in judgements and have let all the ponies bolt the gate. It will chew you up and spit you off. the 636 however is one helluva quick bike with awesome handling and just that little bit more power than most other 600s. I would definitely go for that!

my 2c

Brett

19th July 2008, 09:55

you can if you try.

Firstly get rid of your defeatest attitude
Secondly, go and practice riding on a track. Be smooth, know what you and teh bike are doing

learn the brakes
learn the angles
learn the clutch, the throttle

Be aware of your surroundings.
Learn from others

then, you'll soon realise that waffling all day on a web site isn't that productive and getting out there and doing it you too can be smooth, less of a danger to other s and yourself and less prone to crashing others bikes ... :done:

I think that is a very sensible answer mate.

Brett

19th July 2008, 09:56

Just tickin' the boxes, man. I've still got to tick the one labelled "Gets run over by his own bike shortly thereafter", though.

:lol:

LMAO. Now that is funny.

boomer

19th July 2008, 09:59

How many km you got on that thou so far, bro? We can all only dream of matching your mileage.

:msn-wink:

The sarcasm oozes out of you .. like a fat man in a sauna. You could ride for an eternity and you'd still bumble about and crash.

Just tickin' the boxes, man. I've still got to tick the one labelled "Gets run over by his own bike shortly thereafter", though.

:lol:

Well it seems you started at the wrong end of the 'to do ' list. riding big powerful bikes with little or no skill and appreciation will end in tears and/or hurting someone else's pocket. But you've shown you have no appreciation for either ( large cc's or other peoples bikes )

The old saying.. there are some that DO and some that SAY.. There's no prizes for guessing which i think you are?!

icekiwi

19th July 2008, 11:42

You'll have all the fun you need on a 600

Buy mine!!!!!

I'm 2 wks into a 3mth walk...
Will take the opportunity to get another bike.....bigger lol

jrandom

19th July 2008, 12:05

You could ride for an eternity and you'd still bumble about and crash.

Did you just admit that I ride more than you do?

:laugh:

And when it comes to my bins this year, I'm not the only person who's ever fallen off on a diesel spill in the dark when it's raining or had a car driver turn into them without looking.

Face it, bro, it's not my riding that bothers you, it's the tone of my posts on the forum. You need to either respond to what bothers you directly, or just ignore it, mm kay?

I both do and say; I am what I am. I suggest you take a more accepting attitude toward the world. You're a pretty grumpy c00nt sometimes, y'know that?

:hug:

boomer

19th July 2008, 12:40

We can't all be like you, boomer.

Face it, bro, it's not my riding that bothers you, it's the tone of my posts on the forum. You need to either respond to what bothers you directly, or just ignore it, mm kay?

I do believe you replied to my post with a sarcastic response. You expect me to bite my tongue and stfu...??! get real.

Did you just admit that I ride more than you do?

:laugh:

And when it comes to my bins this year, I'm not the only person who's ever fallen off on a diesel spill in the dark when it's raining or had a car driver turn into them without looking.

No.. you can definitely piss further than me... and i do believe your shit goes further too!!

I both do and say; I am what I am. I suggest you take a more accepting attitude toward the world. You're a pretty grumpy c00nt sometimes, y'know that?:hug:

I've just had a brain wave, perhaps if you go on my ignore list i'd kill 2 birds with one stone; i wouldn't bite at you and i would have less than two thirds of the crap to wade threw when i pressed the 'new posts' button!!!

and lastly, yup im a grumpy coont.. no doubt about it. Im a little less likely to tolerate idjiots in my current state... hence we find ourselves here.

RC1

19th July 2008, 13:38

go the ZX and enjoy the rush every time you ride :niceone:

AllanB

19th July 2008, 14:28

I suggest you seriously consider a used Hornet 900 - you can fit a screen if you are not keen on it naked. This would be a superb step from your 250. They are light, well balanced and easy to ride with sensible power.

There's some well priced ones on Trademe as well.

Now if money is not a problem - get a Street Triple.

Hmm nice.

Oldfulla

19th July 2008, 14:37

My 2 cents worth here, which is bias as I have never ridden the xz10

Owning a 05 zx636 rocks, it’s a heap of fun and very forgiving. It sticks very well to the road, has great breaks and is fast. Being 183cm tall and 100kgs it is comfortable to do long trips on. I often (either weekly or fortnightly) do a trip from Putaruru to Ohope, via Rotorua; the bike handles it well as do I, and admittedly I do need a stretch of the legs every couple of hundred kms when riding as you are tucked up a wee bit.

When I first made the jump from a 250 last year it felt VERY big and VERY powerful, now it doesn’t seem so big or powerful. One of the negative aspects of this bike is you need to ride the gears a bit to get all the power/torque that it has

I think it is a good stepping stone on the way to a big bike as it will scare you when you first ride it however it is very easily tamed and a predictable bike to ride. I think jumping straight to the ZX10 may give you a fright.

Best thing to do is go out and ride both and see how you like them.

Cheers
oldfulla

19th July 2008, 16:09

so im going to buy a big bike in a few months and its either going to be a zx10r 2004 or a zx636r 2006. i ride ever day and do long trips all the time. what do u think is best.
im not conserned with top speed either

Getting back on subject. You need to ask yourself, why do you want a 1000cc bike? You said above that it's not top speed..and from that I assume also not about massive horsepower for you. Which leaves sweet stuff all reason to buy a zx10r? If you want to pose with a big bike, then fine. That's your reason, go for it.
The 636 will be far cheaper to run (tyres & gas) and I did big South Island trips on mine in comfort.

boomer

19th July 2008, 18:23

Getting back on subject. You need to ask yourself, why do you want a 1000cc bike? You said above that it's not top speed..and from that I assume also not about massive horsepower for you. Which leaves sweet stuff all reason to buy a zx10r? If you want to pose with a big bike, then fine. That's your reason, go for it.
The 636 will be far cheaper to run (tyres & gas) and I did big South Island trips on mine in comfort.

i disagree with teh running costs MD, my 600 drank a lot more gas and tyres than my thousand does. Probably because of all the power and torque i now have where as before i'd have to ring the 600's neck all the time.

the comparison rings true with the 600's v's 750's. Teh 750 is more economical to run than teh 6.

but hey.. we all love/live and learn ( well some of us... :bash: huh !! )

i agree with the posing/choice thing tho.

Mikkel

20th July 2008, 02:32

While you may find that a higher capacity bike has a better fuel economy - I have to say:

Gremlin

20th July 2008, 05:26

interestingly enough, I found a RaceAttack rear tyre that lasted 1500km and a SportAttack rear that lasted about 5000km cost me about the same, except the race tyre was 2nd hand, so cost less. I did also really stretch its life out to the point it had no tread :whistle:

Boomer, JRandom and their gay suzukis need to get a room, have a gay orgy and be done with spoiling nice kawasaki threads (You don't need to tell us anything about the romp either). ;)

btw, savage, if it ain't about the top speed, why the hell do you want a sportbike? I have way more fun riding a cb900 than the zx10 (hence the sale), and it costs a shitload less, both in capital and running expenses.

Brett

20th July 2008, 10:03

i disagree with teh running costs MD, my 600 drank a lot more gas and tyres than my thousand does. Probably because of all the power and torque i now have where as before i'd have to ring the 600's neck all the time.

the comparison rings true with the 600's v's 750's. Teh 750 is more economical to run than teh 6.

but hey.. we all love/live and learn ( well some of us... :bash: huh !! )

i agree with the posing/choice thing tho.

I agree with that. Whenever I go out for a ride in a group, I always use more gas than those boys on the larger machines. I also think that if riding is smooth and the chain is kept well loobed, that they will last a helluva long time.

Boomer, even with the can etc. etc you reckon the Gixxer uses less fuel than your CBR did?

Brett

20th July 2008, 10:12

I do believe you replied to my post with a sarcastic response. You expect me to bite my tongue and stfu...??! get real.

No.. you can definitely piss further than me... and i do believe your shit goes further too!!

I've just had a brain wave, perhaps if you go on my ignore list i'd kill 2 birds with one stone; i wouldn't bite at you and i would have less than two thirds of the crap to wade threw when i pressed the 'new posts' button!!!

and lastly, yup im a grumpy coont.. no doubt about it. Im a little less likely to tolerate idjiots in my current state... hence we find ourselves here.

I thought all the above with jrandom was was piss taking:blink: Just shows. Even when I am awake I might as well be asleep!:shit:

avgas

20th July 2008, 17:26

While you may find that a higher capacity bike has a better fuel economy - I have to say:
I average 10,000 k's on Shinko's - it really depends on what you buy and how you slow ride it.
My 400 gave me about 3,000K's on BT's and Diablo's.
I wouldn't be supprised if tyres out lived riders on "thou's ridden hard", seeing as ridden hard means you live about 200kph, not just have an orgasmic squirt to see how she goes.
Not even im that confident to state that i thrash my thou' to the absolute limits. I could say that about all my previous bikes but on the FZ stuff hitting a corner a 3-4 x the rated speed.
So no tyre wear vs cc is a poor argument. Seeing as all the good riders / hoons will chew out a 50cc scoots tyre for fun

boomer

20th July 2008, 21:54

I agree with that. Whenever I go out for a ride in a group, I always use more gas than those boys on the larger machines. I also think that if riding is smooth and the chain is kept well loobed, that they will last a helluva long time.

Boomer, even with the can etc. etc you reckon the Gixxer uses less fuel than your CBR did?

it's been tuned and had the air valve closed off.. it uses a lot less gas than the 6 did/does; every tank is a substantial amount less. Thats comparable riding .. i.e a 600 and a thousand riding together.

It's a whole new ball game tho once you put your foot down, the tyres and gas soon evaporate.

Brett

20th July 2008, 22:30

it's been tuned and had the air valve closed off.. it uses a lot less gas than the 6 did/does; every tank is a substantial amount less. Thats comparable riding .. i.e a 600 and a thousand riding together.

It's a whole new ball game tho once you put your foot down, the tyres and gas soon evaporate.

Yeah I have notices with the thou's that when ridden hard they destroy tyres significantly faster than a 600 ridden equally hard...of course one could argue that suspension settings could play a part in it with a badly set up 600 chewing through tyres a helluvalot faster than a reasonably well set up thou...

Meh...what do I know anyway:zzzz:

boomer

20th July 2008, 23:08

Yeah I have notices with the thou's that when ridden hard they destroy tyres significantly faster than a 600 ridden equally hard...of course one could argue that suspension settings could play a part in it with a badly set up 600 chewing through tyres a helluvalot faster than a reasonably well set up thou...

Meh...what do I know anyway:zzzz:
agreed on suspension matey; the gold i put on sure does make my rear look smooth :niceone:

Brett

21st July 2008, 20:14

agreed on suspension matey; the gold i put on sure does make my rear look smooth :niceone:

Yeah I am keepin a sharp eye on tardme for a good second hand one...heard they make all the difference on the the gsxr k4 600.the rear shock tends to go saggy like old boobs after about 15,000kms.

MaxCannon

21st July 2008, 20:57

Went out for a ride with my mate on his ZX10.

On a private bit of road I dropped down to 4th, hunched behind the screen, gave it an armfull and was making pretty respectible progress.

My mate left it in 6th and just squeezed a bit more throttle on.

Shot past me like I was chained to a post !

crash harry

23rd July 2008, 22:55

@ MaxCannon - Yeah, well that will happen...

My 2 cents worth, having not owned a ZX10 but having had a bunch of other big bikes and a 636 - I'd go for the 636. Heaps more fun to ride IMHO than a litrebike, and I toured the UK on one (B2 model) at 90 - 100mph most of the time with no worries at all. I had no issues doing big distances - like up to 1000 miles / week on a couple of occasions. You just need good earplugs.

I'm guessing that the 10R would be a little more relaxed riding big distances, and the torque is nice to have, but if you're getting it for those reasons then there are better machines. Blackbird for example.