Professional paint job at home - how do I do it?

[nudedaytona]

I want to do a professional-looking paint job on my bike but don't want to pay a professional.

I just want one colour (black), with the rest of the look done with stickers.

How hard can it be? So there's a bit of sanding, primer and top coats to apply right?

How much paint would I need, and how much does quality, long-lasting paint cost?

The bike has abs plastic fairings and a plastic tank.

[MSTRS]

I want to do a professional-looking paint job on my bike but don't want to pay a professional.

I just want one colour (black), with the rest of the look done with stickers.

How hard can it be? So there's a bit of sanding, primer and top coats to apply right?

How much paint would I need, and how much does quality, long-lasting paint cost?

The bike has abs plastic fairings and a plastic tank.

Obviously you are not a 'professional' so expect an amateur job. There's more to painting than just chucking several coats at it.

[MIXONE]

Number One Rule.The better the preperation the better the end job.
Number Two Rule.Be patient and don't rush it.
Good onya for having a go and don't forget if you fuck it up sand it down and start again.

[steelestring]

Get the pro. to come round so you can do it at your home.;)

What about you doing all the paint prep and then take it in to get sprayed? Most of the time spent is getting the surfaces ready.

Just a thought

[MSTRS]

Here's the list of what to do...
Sand back to bare plastic
Prime with a compatible plastic etch primer (make sure you get the right one or your plastics may 'fizz')
Lightly sand the primer
Apply a filler-type undercoat
Sand back till completely smooth and no pinholes. Redo if necessary
Apply colour coat. Black may require 2 coats for depth.
Depending on type of colour coat, apply clear over top.

Sanding needs to be done wet, using 800 - 2000 grit paper.
For long-lasting finish, use automotive paints. 'Standard' paint will fizz up when you spill petrol on it. Ideally, you will use matched paint components and you will bake the colour and clear coats.
Use a proper spray outfit. You may get the right paint in aerosol cans, but won't give you a decent finish.

Or take your plastics to a professional....

[nudedaytona]

Here's the list of what to do...
Sand back to bare plastic
Prime with a compatible plastic etch primer (make sure you get the right one or your plastics may 'fizz')
Lightly sand the primer
Apply a filler-type undercoat
Sand back till completely smooth and no pinholes. Redo if necessary
Apply colour coat. Black may require 2 coats for depth.
Depending on type of colour coat, apply clear over top.

Sanding needs to be done wet, using 800 - 2000 grit paper.
For long-lasting finish, use automotive paints. 'Standard' paint will fizz up when you spill petrol on it. Ideally, you will use matched paint components and you will bake the colour and clear coats.
Use a proper spray outfit. You may get the right paint in aerosol cans, but won't give you a decent finish.

Or take your plastics to a professional....

Thanks. Now some of the parts, like the front and rear huggers, are in really good condition.

It's just the side panels that really need a new paint job. If I just did the bits that needed doing, how much trouble would it be to make sure that the final finish black I used matched the black on the bits I left alone?

[avgas]

search my posts.......needless to say - its cheaper to get a pro to do a pro coat.
You need minimum 1L undercoat, 1L top coat, 1L clear coat, about 1KG of sandpaper and a lot of time.

[avgas]

Number One Rule.The better the preperation the better the end job.
Number Two Rule.Be patient and don't rush it.
Good onya for having a go and don't forget if you fuck it up sand it down and start again.
Rule 3 : Sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint, SAND......sand....sand....sand most importantly sand.

[MSTRS]

Thanks. Now some of the parts, like the front and rear huggers, are in really good condition.

It's just the side panels that really need a new paint job. If I just did the bits that needed doing, how much trouble would it be to make sure that the final finish black I used matched the black on the bits I left alone?

Mucho trouble....do you know how many shades of black there are?
A professional will know what's needed and can match the colour. And adjust the gloss to suit....

[nudedaytona]

Spray or use brush? If brush, what is best?

What grade of sandpaper - is finer more effort but not as hard to stuff up?

[vindy500]

Spray or use brush? If brush, what is best?

What grade of sandpaper - is finer more effort but not as hard to stuff up?

brush with grade 60 sandpaper with give you that ghetto look

[scumdog]

Spray or use brush? If brush, what is best?

What grade of sandpaper - is finer more effort but not as hard to stuff up?

Brush?

BRUSH?

[MSTRS]

Spray or use brush?

Not terribly sharp, are you? Have you even read some of the helpful responses you've had?
Perhaps you can answer a simple question...do you want a rough job or a good job?

[nodrog]

Spray or use brush? If brush, what is best?

What grade of sandpaper - is finer more effort but not as hard to stuff up?

for fucksakes dont use a brush, it will look like shit, use a roller!

[MSTRS]

for fucksakes dont use a brush, it will look like shit, use a roller!

One of these would be recommended
http://www.cigarette-rolling-machines.co.uk/cone_roller.jpg

[nudedaytona]

Not terribly sharp, are you? Have you even read some of the helpful responses you've had?
Perhaps you can answer a simple question...do you want a rough job or a good job?

We aren't all professional painters out of work in this weather with nothing better to do but scratch their balls and lecture people on how to paint.

Some of the responses aren't that helpful. For instance - "sanding needs to be done using 800 to 2000 grit sandpaper". Well what should it be be - 850 or 1365 or 1800 grit?

Another stupid question - What does wet sanding mean?

[MSTRS]

We aren't all professional painters out of work in this weather with nothing better to do but scratch their balls and lecture people on how to paint.

Some of the responses aren't that helpful. For instance - "sanding needs to be done using 800 to 2000 grit sandpaper". Well what should it be be - 850 or 1365 or 1800 grit?

Another stupid question - What does wet sanding mean?

I'm not a painter but I do work alongside car painters from time to time. You asked a question, you've been given the answers, but you don't seem to be paying attention. Do you want the answers or not?

[vindy500]

We aren't all professional painters out of work in this weather with nothing better to do but scratch their balls and lecture people on how to paint.

Some of the responses aren't that helpful. For instance - "sanding needs to be done using 800 to 2000 grit sandpaper". Well what should it be be - 850 or 1365 or 1800 grit?

Another stupid question - What does wet sanding mean?

means start with 800, then move to like 1200 then 1600 then 2000 or something, getting progressively smoother. wet sanding means you wet the sandpaper

[nudedaytona]

means start with 800, then move to like 1200 then 1600 then 2000 or something, getting progressively smoother. wet sanding means you wet the sandpaper

I thought so, because sanding while the paint is still wet would be messy.

[nodrog]

I thought so, because sanding while the paint is still wet would be messy.

surely you are taking the piss

[Coyote]

We aren't all professional painters out of work in this weather with nothing better to do but scratch their balls and lecture people on how to paint.

Some of the responses aren't that helpful. For instance - "sanding needs to be done using 800 to 2000 grit sandpaper". Well what should it be be - 850 or 1365 or 1800 grit?

Another stupid question - What does wet sanding mean?
I'm not a pro, but I'm learning. I should know all you need to know though.

You won't get a professional job done at home. But you could still get a real nice finish. I've seen mates bikes that look great that have been done at home, Sketchy_Racer's old 125 for example.

What state are your fairings currently in? Can't know where to start unless I know that much.

Wet sanding is when you dunk the sandpaper in water and sand the panel. You keep the paper and surface wet so the dust gets washed away. There's dry and wet sandpaper. Dry paper will break up. Wet paper will say waterproof on the back of it.

There are several types of sandpaper grit. 12-120 grit is panelbeater stuff. Too course for what you want. 240 would be good if you've got bog that needs sanding back. 320 or a grey scotch pad will be good for scuffing the surface before priming (can use 240, but best read the back of the can of primer what scratches that primer is able to fill. Sandable filling primer is the best).

500 is good for scuffing the primer, making it smooth. When you're doing this, spray a light coat of the paint you'll be using to make a 'guide coat'. You'll also need a sanding block. The guide coat will show up any low spots as you sand with the block. Keep sanding until you don't see any more guide coat and the surface should be straight.

Apply the paint following the instructions on the can. It'll tell you time between coats and such. If you get bits of crap in the paint, 1000 wet paper will get them off and be scuffed enough to spray more paint on.

The paint you'll have access to (at Repco or Supercheap) will be Lacquer. This is definitely not what professionals use nowadays, but it'll be fine for at home use. 2 Pack paint like what the pros use is cyanide based and you need specialist equipment not to get yourself poisoned. Lacquer is easier to spray anyway (2 pack can give you an 'orange peel' look).

Sketchy's bike like I mentioned before was done with a spray gun and compressor. Not sure what paint he used. There's no reason why a spray can can't do the same job, just takes more time and they can splatter paint which will then need sanding back.

Any professionals can revise this a bit or add anything I've missed. I'm still learning.

Ultimately I got sick of not knowing what I was doing at home which is why I've gone to Weltec to study Auto Refinishing. Course, I didn't have anyone telling me all this.

[Grub]

Spray or use brush? If brush, what is best?

A good wide 150mm brush is best as you get good coverage. also, you don't get all those annoying ridges between the brushstrokes that you get with little piddly narrow brushes.

:innocent:

[nudedaytona]

surely you are taking the piss

Yes I was pretty sure what wet sanding was, still its always good to get confirmation.

[Hoon]

Honestly, you are tripping if you think you can do a professional paint job at home on your first attempt based on advice from the internet.

Sure the internet can give you knowledge but it can't give you experience.

It was probably my 3rd or 4th attempt before I eventually painted a bike that was of professional standard.

Unless you have a contamination/dust free garage (very difficult if you are also sanding in same garage) you will struggle to get a good finish. I have to wipe down/blast/clean my entire garage before painting and even then I still erect a "paint tent" made from bedsheets which I hang from the ceiling.

My advice to you is to expect that the first few attempts will not be entirely successful so start off on spare panels, shitter bikes an so on only moving to the real thing once you are happy with your work.

[Coyote]

Get some black lacquer and soak the bastard innit :D

[lemining]

Hey, woah there are many ppl with anger management :blink:

But anyway, to answer your question (the first post that is). You can not get pro paint job done with sprays, unless you have access to clean environment and some tools (like air compressor). I don't have any of the following.

So what i did with my last and my current bike was to find panel beaters that are actually interested in doing the job (your bike), if they give you stupid prices like $2k for paint job then obviously they think ur stupid or they dont want your bike in their shop. As soon as you find them, ask them if there are any ways of lowering the cost a bit, with my last bike i got to the agreement that i will do all the prep work by myself (ie. sanding everything down by myself and then patching everything and then re sanding it to be nice and smooth), and they cut the cost by quite a bit, i was just paying for their time of painting it and for the paint. Very nice pro done job. i think it cost me about $300 + box of beer (to paint the bits of frame) :) :innocent:

With my current bike, after i had low speed drop i had to paint two little fairings (i have half naked bike). I could not match the colour because it was just too much of a mission.

What i did i just went to super cheap auto and i bought sand paper (wet sand paper it is normally gray/black colour), i got 250, 500, 800, 1000. Sheet of each (i think they are about $1 each) if you dont have sanding block grab one too (cork block). I also got myself etch primer, car filler (to fill up dents etc - i didn't actually use it as everything came off with sand paper). Then in super cheap auto they have different car paints, i selected silver and took two cans of that (they are small so yeh), also i got some enamel clear coat (i think enamel means that it will be pretty hard - dont ask me im a n00b with all those technical stuff), get some paper towels and meth as well. This is step by step what i did.


Took the parts off the bike (only the one i wanted to paint duh :))
I filled up bucket with warm water and some soap (liquid soap) and I washed those parts.
After i washed them, I put fresh water in the bucket and put 250 sand paper on my sanding block.
I began to sand down all the paint to bare plastic. Make sure u dip your sand paper in water pretty often, because sometimes pieces of paint get stuck in sand paper and you dont even relaise when u start to make pretty bad scratches.
Keep sanding until u get all parts sanded to bare plastic.
After u done with all parts, replace the water with cleand and fresh water.
Take next sand paper (ie. if you were working with 500 then grab 800) whatever u got thats higher than u already have and sand again!
I normally stop when i see that the plastic is smooth and there is no deep scratches etc.
Wait for you plastic to dry and then grab paper towel with meth, and make sure you clean it all dont miss a spot.
When it is all dry grab your etch primer (from my little experience it gives you better coats when the can is a bit warmer so what i did last time i put the cans with sprays to bucket with warm watter (warm not hot)) make sure u give it a good shake. Take piece of card board and have little practice session, give it light coats (first coat is going to be dotted from light coat). You dont want paint to run! Also you want to go sideways evenly from left to right lets say and make sure u go over the edges.
Wait few minutes between coats. I used 500W lamp when i was painting because it was cold and rainy, but as i found out it attracts some dust to your painted components.
I gave my plastics about 4 coats in total.
After your last coat give the paint some more time to dry (I for example went to have dinner and had little game of CS:S) :Punk:
Now back to sanding, grab your piece along with bucket of water and sand paper (1000) would be my choice. Start sanding, you want to sand all visible pieces to be as smooth as baby's bottom, make sure you dont sand to bare plastic.
After you sand it all, grab clean paper towel and clean it off the water let it dry.
When it is dry, check if u did good job (it always looks better when it is wet), if not then re-sand.
Once again, practice a bit with actual colour (i had silver), start to paint your pieces. Same rules as with primer, small coats, give time to dry between each.
I gave my piece about 3 coats.
Let it dry for a bit longer. I used metallic silver so my dried pieces were very rough and i did not feel like sanding it, instead i grabbed clear coat.
Give your piece nice coat of clear coat. Same rules as before.
Clear coat dries a lot longer and it is very soft (you can leave nice finger print just by checking if it is dry). Another thing, it normally looks really bad when clear coat is wet (yellowy weird colour). Just dont touch it and let it dry. I left my pieces over night to dry (i hung them a bit higher so it doesnt attract dust and flat mates).
Repeat clear coat 2-3 times. Wait each time.
After ur last time, give your clear coat a some time to dry a bit more. I also used lamp to heat it up and dry it a bit more.

Put back your pieces on the bike and enjoy. Now before you paint make sure there is no dust or other crap on the surface (ie. hair). Use meth only on bare plastic (i used it on already prepped plastic and my eth primer came off with the meth - nasty) Use water instead. Make sure you are not working in windy / dusty areas. I made sure my pieces were hanging up higher (since i assumed dust would be going down).

My paint job turned up pretty good. I was expecting it to look crap not pro. But it looks great. I still gotta buff it, but even without buff it looks good.

I hope it helps.

[nudedaytona]

Thanks mate thats some really good pointers. So you didn't sand between the second paint stage and the clear coat?

[nudedaytona]

And was it tricky to do both sides of the panel - or did you just do the outside facing side?

[lemining]

I did not sand between second stage and clear coat, i used metalic it had those little particles in it, which made it metalic (and also made it feel rough like sand paper). So i figured, if i use enough layers of clear coat i will make that surface pretty even, still keeping that metalic feature. I have not tried sanding it, but it turned up ok without sanding.

I have only painted the outside area, no one sees inside, so i just left it as it was before - bare plastic. With plastic you dont have to worry about rust, so i paint always just the outer area, no point in wasting time and paint.

[The Lone Rider]

I say stuff it all.. get out the ol paint brushes and do your bike up like a mural. No solids, no flames, no pin stripes. Nice thick painted lines of the hills or something that inspires you.

That'd be sweet.

I hired someone to do that to a guitar once. Made for a nice showy guitar.

[fridayflash]

graco 1095 airless is your best bet matey;)

p/t

[Subike]

lots of good advice given here.
Follow the good stuff and you will be fine.
My only addition to what has been said is temperature / humidity / wind
Make sure you do the painting on a day that the temperature is going to be above 10* min for the day, no or very little wind and low humidity.
Dampness and dust are your enemy
This may sound stupid to some but.
The inside of an of van makes a good spray booth for bikes.
I have an old furniture truck that I use as a spray booth, dust free, and a natural bake oven on a sunny day.
I try to do the painting as early as possibile in the morning when the air is still or late at night when it is warmer. Depends upon the day.
Never be in a hurry
Be ready to walk away and have a beer as soon as anything goes wrong.
painting under stress? just makes a fuck up.
Above all, enjoy doing it,make if fun, have good music going.

[fLaThEaD FreD]

Thanks mate thats some really good pointers. So you didn't sand between the second paint stage and the clear coat?

of doin it yourself thats as much good as your'll get first time.
I have all the gear at home for panel,paint and mechanical and can bluff my way through if needed. I touch up the paint on my SS commy when needed but my bike is another story.
I dosent cost much for a painter. Just had my Tank and front guard resprayed proffessionally for $200 cash. I would have spent at least half of that on materials so for $100 it was a "NO BRAINER" for me........weigh it up before you start.:blip:

[awayatc]

If you ride fast enough you will be just a black blur anyway.....

Or the unwashed muddy look hides a multiple of sins....although more effective on a dirtbike.....

I once accidently burned a bike....came out black as well....matt black rather, and a bit smelly when standing still....:gob::scooter:

[nudedaytona]

graco 1095 airless is your best bet matey;)

p/t

How much to hire one?

[nudedaytona]

I dosent cost much for a painter. Just had my Tank and front guard resprayed proffessionally for $200 cash. I would have spent at least half of that on materials so for $100 it was a "NO BRAINER" for me........weigh it up before you start.:blip:

That's pretty good. Can you tell me who did it for you?

[scumdog]

Haven't done a whole bike yet but had top results touching up cars, etc using spray cans (not those little duplicolor cans - but they're OK for small stuff) made up by the local paint-shop.

Get good gloss and colour undetectable from the surrounding area and you can do the job anywhere.

Patience and practice grasshopper.

[wildcat_lgf]

IMHO there are 2 schools of thought with painting your own bike...
1) You want to paint it for the challenge and to learn the skills
2) You want to save money by doing it yourself.

If it's #1 then by all means go ahead, but be prepared to spend alot of time and money learning. You will need to get a decent compressor and spray gun and practice painting on scraps of metal/plastic before getting to your fairings. You will also need to spend a fair amount of time prepping your fairings (sanding, filling etc).

Its tempting to think that paint will fill any minor blemishes - this is NOT the case, anything you can see prior to the topcoats going on will be magnified by the colour and clear. Don't underestimate how long it'll take to prepare the fairings correctly.

If you are going for #2...it will be difficult to save money doing it yourself with little experience or the correct tools. Paint and materials are quite pricey when you have to buy them in small quantities.

However, so I don't leave you too depressed - check this link for an idea of what is involved and what it could look like - yes I know its a car, but the principle remains the same. It's an excellent read and helps explain the process a bit more. Enjoy :)

http://www.autobody101.com/forums/about5183.html&highlight=tri+stage

[The Pastor]

so you need to sand down the clear coat then buff it back up?

[Owl]

so you need to sand down the clear coat then buff it back up?

No!

It’s a very time consuming step that could be avoided with the right gear, environment and knowledge.

[The Pastor]

No!

It’s a very time consuming step that could be avoided with the right gear, environment and knowledge.
so for somone like me, who has very basic /cheap/crap gear, a horriable work enviroment and no knowlegde at all, i should give it a go :P

[boomer]

i so wish i'd seen thi thread earlier.. i lollied in real life..!!


Brush?

BRUSH?

are you deaf as well as daft.. YES A BRUSH FFS !!! ;) lollies.


for fucksakes dont use a brush, it will look like shit, use a roller!

:whistle: hehehehe


surely you are taking the piss

:pinch: i think he's serious Au, hes a contender for Maori of the year..??!


I say stuff it all.. get out the ol paint brushes and do your bike up like a mural. No solids, no flames, no pin stripes. Nice thick painted lines of the hills or something that inspires you.

That'd be sweet.

I hired someone to do that to a guitar once. Made for a nice showy guitar.

I bet it was a stunner mate... :crazy:



dude, take it to your local garage to do..!!!

[The Lone Rider]

I bet it was a stunner mate... :crazy:



I guess there's no accounting for taste... especially if you only think inside a box.

Very cool stuff - http://images.google.co.nz/images?q=Hand%20Painted%20Guitar&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi

[1 Free Man]

There is an old saying
" there are good jobs and there are cheap jobs but there is no such thing as a good cheap job."
Lots of good advise offered in this thread. Just be aware that black is probably the worst colour for showing up blemishes in the A. Item painted and or B. the preparation of the said item.
Good luck with your endevours brave person!!

[gunrunner]

I want to do a professional-looking paint job on my bike but don't want to pay a professional.

I just want one colour (black), with the rest of the look done with stickers.

How hard can it be? So there's a bit of sanding, primer and top coats to apply right?

How much paint would I need, and how much does quality, long-lasting paint cost?

The bike has abs plastic fairings and a plastic tank.

Its the old saying you get what you pay for .:done:

[fLaThEaD FreD]

Its the old saying you get what you pay for .:done:

But i'd pay a painter to blow the finish coat on as most of the cost is in the preparation.
Just use the right bases to match the finish so you dont get any boilups in the finish.:ride:

[The Pastor]

just thought i'd hi jack this thread as its relevant.

Im doing my first ever "pro looking" paint job at home.

Ive shot the nose cone but had massive orange peel. So ive sanded this down with 800 grit and will try to adjust my gun as not to give orange peel.

Painting it gloss black.

[lemining]

just thought i'd hi jack this thread as its relevant.

Im doing my first ever "pro looking" paint job at home.

Ive shot the nose cone but had massive orange peel. So ive sanded this down with 800 grit and will try to adjust my gun as not to give orange peel.

Painting it gloss black.

post pics! :mad:

[The Pastor]

post pics! :mad:
why? Its not looking very good

[Owl]

If you're using a crap gun or the set up is too large you'll struggle with peel. Try using more pressure, thin the paint more or both!

[slimjim]

If you're using a crap gun or the set up is too large you'll struggle with peel. Try using more pressure, thin the paint more or both!

nope.. nope...nope...:sweatdrop
none of this .....:bash:

[firefighter]

I want to do a professional-looking paint job on my bike but don't want to pay a professional.

I just want one colour (black), with the rest of the look done with stickers.

How hard can it be? So there's a bit of sanding, primer and top coats to apply right?

How much paint would I need, and how much does quality, long-lasting paint cost?

The bike has abs plastic fairings and a plastic tank.

dude theres not that much work to do really to remove your fairings etc and prep them yourself,then have a pro paint it for you, if you do this the paint job will cost you fuck all, and it will look better, in the end that will be cheaper as the professional already has the tools for the job, AND black is a common colour, so if all the painter has to do is paint it for you it will be cheap as cheap- especially if you get him to do it when he already has another bike lined up for that colour (which won't take long if your patient.)

[The Pastor]

nope.. Nope...nope...:sweatdrop
none of this .....:bash:
care to explain a little bit?

[The Pastor]

if you're using a crap gun or the set up is too large you'll struggle with peel. Try using more pressure, thin the paint more or both!
i have a $140 gun, its pretty darn good. Gravity fed.

[Hoon]

But is the gun set up properly?? Search the web on guides for setting up HVLP guns.
I write all my gun settings and thinner ratios that I learned the hard way on the box. Saves a bit of arsing around next time I use it (once every few months for me).

Maybe you just aint spraying it on thick enough. I like to spray it on thick enough so that it runs together but doesn't run if you get my drift.

[Owl]

nope.. nope...nope...:sweatdrop
none of this .....:bash:

Well with 50,000 hours auto-refinish experience up my sleeve, I say yes yes yes.:bleh:


i have a $140 gun, its pretty darn good. Gravity fed.

Good guns range from $500-$1100+ but there are cheaper guns that are more than capable.
Is the gun you have an HVLP or conventional gravity feed? What size is the set-up i.e. 1.2 -1.5 - 3.0? What type of paint are you using i.e. basecoat, 2K clearcoat, lacquer?
These are relevant questions and give a better idea of what problems you could be looking at.

[The Pastor]

i dont know......

i think it might be conventional - how do u tell?

i think the nozel is 1.3mm i'll check this when i get home.

im using just standard gloss black lacquer and a clear coat lacquer

on top of a sanding primer.

[Subike]

Ive just finnished (nearly) refurbishing my XS.
I did the frame, motor, small bits myself.
Tank, sidecovers, rear fender, wheels all went to a painter.
For the cost of $300 all up, and no worries about how it would look, I'm a happy fella.
I recomend you do as much preperation work as you can yourself, but if you have minimal experiance with painting, dont.
If you are going to do your frame, get it done professionally, usually this is cheaper than buying all the things you need to do it yourself.
Its more enjoyable and less mess to get the bits done, then you do the assembly.
The biggest cost is in the labour reassembling everthing.

Here is mine three days ago.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=106112&d=1222121856

All I am waiting on now is the seat!,

[Owl]

They normally have HVLP stamped on them. Nothing wrong with an HVLP, but I wouldn't recommend one to anybody starting out or working at home, as they require large volumes of air and a very different spraying technique. The 1.3 set-up should be fine for what you're doing! The best advice I can give you for using lacquer, is to use high quality (expensive) thinner. Don't get sucked into using cheap 2-way thinner! Those 2 products will show different results with gloss directly off the gun and even more so a month down the track.
Don't be afraid to thin the paint if you are getting peel and don't be afraid to use more pressure (though don't get silly). Play about with test panels using different settings and get used to it.
Most important to get things clean and dust free. This is where lacquer is great as it's nearly fool proof:msn-wink:.

Let us know how you get on.

[Padmei]

Man theres a lot of negativity about:no:

Painting my bike at the mo with a black spray can (cheap from repco) - not much prep, done in a hurry, & have to say I'm really pleased with result except... Did the front mudguard & looked stunning so sprayed with clear to give it the extra gloss blah blah blah but it crackled.

So I sanded it back & sprayed black again but it may have been too wet(?) & crackled slightly again so left it for a couple of days & sanded it back & sprayed it black again (not going to worry about a clear coat anymore). This time it came out ok but not as good as initially but a patch dulled (like breathing on a mirror kind of...) Any basic ideas?

I will keep going sanding & spraying as it only takes 5mins to sand & 2x 30seconds to spray, has cost me $20 & most of all I am really enjoying having a go myself (anyone remember that feeling?)

[Jerry74]

I painted my mini with a 4 inch roller and rustoleum paint from the states.

Guy at paint shop laughed when I told him what I was going to do until 6 weeks later I drove it there and and showed him.

Came out like glass, prep is the biggest thing check this out if you wanna see results for roller painting.

Rustoleum Paint is available in NZ and costs about $30 a litre, thin down with mineral turpentine its amazing what the results come out like.

Google $50 dollar paint job or click this link:

www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

[Owl]

This time it came out ok but not as good as initially but a patch dulled (like breathing on a mirror kind of...) Any basic ideas?

Blooming, blushing, whatever you want to call it? Spray when it's warmer or have a heat gun handy to keep moisture away. Key word here is warm, so you don't need to set it on fire.;)


I am really enjoying having a go myself (anyone remember that feeling?)

20 something years ago!:laugh:

As for the "crackled", I have no idea without seeing it.

[imdying]

Any basic ideas?The colour and the clear, same family of paint? (i.e. same brand, same type)


So Ferris, if you'd have to pick a top 3 in order of what is most important for getting a good (home) result, what would you pick?

And before anyone disagrees with his picks, please try to remember the context, i.e. in the home.

[Owl]

Oh here we go, but I'll play the game for a moment.

1. Knowledge: The more the better, but even a slight clue will go a long way to making a job easier, saving time, dollars and a big headache. You can of course continue without any knowledge and by the time you finish, you'll come back to #2 with at least a little!

2. Preparation: A job is nothing without it!

3. Product: Oh the choices!

4. Equipment: Just thought I'd add that, as I think it's important!

[imdying]

Oh here we go, but I'll play the game for a moment.There will always be people that disagree with your opinion, they'll either add something useful or be a pain in the arse, water off a ducks back mate, I'm genuinely interested.


1. Knowledge: The more the better, but even a slight clue will go a long way to making a job easier, saving time, dollars and a big headache. You can of course continue without any knowledge and by the time you finish, you'll come back to #2 with at least a little!Appreciate your time :yes:

2. Preparation: A job is nothing without it!So starting with this then... any tips? Cleanliness? Say if you're cleaning your parts with something like prepsol, even through it 'appears' to dry and evaporate quite quickly, is there a minimum time you should wait after cleaning with a solvent like that that you should wait before applying product?

If you're preparing with a spray putty, is that a suitable primer for your top coat, or is another primer on top of that a good idea? Or use one of those high solid filler primers instead? Do they do (or either type) do both jobs at once?

[jrandom]

Here is mine three days ago.

Looking nice, man!

[imdying]

Looking nice, man!You're such a slut for black bikes :lol:

[jrandom]

You're such a slut for black bikes :lol:

And entirely unashamed of it.

:sunny:

[The Pastor]

i just sprayed a coat of gloss black, can you say mirror finish?

Im using enmal paint (much to my horror it will come off easily with petrol - dont make my mistake) and i can see my self clearly in the coat :D :D :D :D not even clear yet,

One trick i found was not to put ont he coat too lightly - it has to be quite heavy ive found - it looks like orange peel for about 5min then it transforms right in front of your eyes! like flows together!!

[Owl]

There will always be people that disagree with your opinion, they'll either add something useful or be a pain in the arse, water off a ducks back mate, I'm genuinely interested.

My apologies! I thought this may be a piss-take and we're touchy in the Manawatu. Just check out the MRF! Yes, even painters disagree with each other, but most would agree there is no one way of doing things.


Appreciate your time :yes:
So starting with this then... any tips? Cleanliness? Say if you're cleaning your parts with something like prepsol, even through it 'appears' to dry and evaporate quite quickly, is there a minimum time you should wait after cleaning with a solvent like that that you should wait before applying product?

Never wipe prepsol (other similar product) on without having a clean cloth to take it off. Complete one panel at a time! As for minimum time, it's never been an issue for me, as I work in an enironment that's 20+ degrees and it's the first step in a line including setting up and tacking off the job using air.


If you're preparing with a spray putty, is that a suitable primer for your top coat, or is another primer on top of that a good idea? Or use one of those high solid filler primers instead? Do they do (or either type) do both jobs at once?

Fillers we use are primers as well though I never spray them directly on bare metal. I use an etch primer for that. Keep in mind that everything we use is 2K related and I haven't used lacquer related products in the last 18 years, so actually have no idea what's on the market now. I'm sure I could still put the shit on though.;)

[Owl]

i just sprayed a coat of gloss black, can you say mirror finish?

Im using enmal paint (much to my horror it will come off easily with petrol - dont make my mistake) and i can see my self clearly in the coat :D :D :D :D not even clear yet,

One trick i found was not to put ont he coat too lightly - it has to be quite heavy ive found - it looks like orange peel for about 5min then it transforms right in front of your eyes! like flows together!!

Whoa whoa whoa! Please tell me you're not planning to put clear lacquer over enamel!!!!!!!!!!!!!:crazy:

[The Pastor]

Whoa whoa whoa! Please tell me you're not planning to put clear lacquer over enamel!!!!!!!!!!!!!:crazy:
its a clear enamel

[Owl]

its a clear enamel

A stock standard clear enamel with no hardner? Well fuck me, I've never heard of such a thing!:gob:

[Ixion]

Does not enamel, withnone of that hardner stuff, take several liftimes to harden up properly at ambient?

I used to spray paint quite a few bikes back in the day, but then we were using nitrocellulose lacquer, which gives a superb finish (that guardsman's boots shine that you see on show vintage vehicles) extremely easily,at the expense of needing to be buffed after spraying (and the trivial risk of blowing yourself and the neighbourhood to Kingdom Come, it being blasting cotton) . Which is why it dropped out of use (the buffing, I mean).

My impression is that modern materials , arcylic laquer or enamal are much harder to apply and give underwhelming results, and that to get a decent finish you need to used the cyanide two pot things that kill you dead before the paint dries.

I've tried and tried to get nitro (I don't mind buffing) , without success. Why is it all the good old simple products that *work* are no longer available.

Nitrocellulose , gunpowder tyre patches, red oil, asbestos sheet for brake and clutch lining and exhaust stuffing, all impossible to source, without any good reason for their disappearance. Its a conspiracy I reckon

[The Pastor]

A stock standard clear enamel with no hardner? Well fuck me, I've never heard of such a thing!:gob:
i dunno, i keept asking about hardner at the paint shop and the guy said "nah dont need it"

they seem pretty onto it, its the wairu paint center in glenfield...

Im a bit gutterd because if any petrol or solvent falls on my paint work - its going to take it off.

Les, im using "quick dry enamel" so hopefully it'll be ok! but yeah you have to sand with 2000 grit then buff this stuff to get a good finish (unless you just want a good from afar look!)

[Owl]

i dunno, i keept asking about hardner at the paint shop and the guy said "nah dont need it"

they seem pretty onto it, its the wairu paint center in glenfield...

Im a bit gutterd because if any petrol or solvent falls on my paint work - its going to take it off.

Les, im using "quick dry enamel" so hopefully it'll be ok! but yeah you have to sand with 2000 grit then buff this stuff to get a good finish (unless you just want a good from afar look!)

Who manufactures it? It could be quick dry, but the only reason I ever saw gloss loss was due to all purpose thinner. The proper quick dry thinner left a pretty good finish.

[Owl]

Does not enamel, withnone of that hardner stuff, take several liftimes to harden up properly at ambient?

Yes, unless you put hardner in it and then it only took one lifetime!:laugh:


I used to spray paint quite a few bikes back in the day, but then we were using nitrocellulose lacquer, which gives a superb finish (that guardsman's boots shine that you see on show vintage vehicles) extremely easily,at the expense of needing to be buffed after spraying (and the trivial risk of blowing yourself and the neighbourhood to Kingdom Come, it being blasting cotton) . Which is why it dropped out of use (the buffing, I mean).

Probably Duco (nitrocellulose) you were using which was replaced by Dulon (acrylic). Both needed to be buffed, so Duco may have been dropped because of its explosive properties. Didn't they originally use nitrocellulose for billard balls to replace ivory, until they exploded?


My impression is that modern materials , arcylic laquer or enamal are much harder to apply and give underwhelming results, and that to get a decent finish you need to used the cyanide two pot things that kill you dead before the paint dries.

I've tried and tried to get nitro (I don't mind buffing) , without success. Why is it all the good old simple products that *work* are no longer available.

Nitrocellulose , gunpowder tyre patches, red oil, asbestos sheet for brake and clutch lining and exhaust stuffing, all impossible to source, without any good reason for their disappearance. Its a conspiracy I reckon

What can I say.:clap:

[imdying]

Never wipe prepsol (other similar product) on without having a clean cloth to take it off.Noted :yes:


Complete one panel at a time! As for minimum time, it's never been an issue for me, as I work in an enironment that's 20+ degrees and it's the first step in a line including setting up and tacking off the job using air.Tacking off with air?


My impression is that modern materials , arcylic laquer or enamal are much harder to apply and give underwhelming resultsI find it the other way around... they give too good a result... you can spot (vintage) cars and bikes that've been done in modern 2 pak paints... they look excessively glossly :S


Les, im using "quick dry enamel" so hopefully it'll be ok!VHT? :innocent:

[The Pastor]

Noted :yes:

Tacking off with air?

I find it the other way around... they give too good a result... you can spot (vintage) cars and bikes that've been done in modern 2 pak paints... they look excessively glossly :S

VHT? :innocent:
dont follow sorry

[Owl]

Tacking off with air?

I haven't used a tack cloth in years. Instead I use a PVA sponge 250mm x 250mm x 2mm soaked in water, then rung out. They'll last up to 6 months and work better than any tack cloth. + air!!!:laugh:

[imdying]

I understand what a tack cloth is, but I don't understand what you mean by tacking off with air? Did you mean blowing the excess crap off with air, and finishing up with a tack cloth?

And what the heck is a PVA sponge and where would you get one?

[Owl]

When you tack jobs off, you use a cloth in one hand and air blower in the other. Both at the same time otherwise you just move the dust from place to place.

PVA (polyvinyl alcohol) sponges are as rare as rocking horse shit here and even I struggle to find them. Paint suppliers either don't know about them or don't want to know about them. They want to sell tack cloth as selling 2-3 sponges a year to every auto-refinish shop will only make them friends, not money!

http://www.mitomel.com/pva.htm

PGT-26 on this page should give some idea.