Hyosungs and ethanol>>>NO GO [Archive]

<Rhino>

24th July 2008, 12:03

I was cruze'n my way to work this morning and left a little earlier than normal due to the weather bla d bla bla......any how I stopped at Mobil in Paramata, had the gas cap open and was about to start pouring in the gas when the attendant came running out, asked me what sort of bike I had and siad you may not be able to put gas in it. Why the F@#K not I thought last time I checked gas was the way to go. So before I get the chance to ask, the guy dissapeared, screw this I thought I'll get my gas somwhere else. In the mean time I closed the gas cap and was about to head off when the attendant comes back with a list of motorcycle makes and models, a bunch of ticks and a few crosses, turns out Mobil have added 4% ethanol to their fuel and not all bikes/cages can have it. Hyosung's have three big crosses next to it, so Hyosung owners out there be warned, ethanol is NOT for us! :(

boomer

24th July 2008, 12:08

Hyosung's have three big crosses next to it

i hear ya, i wouldn;t go near one with a barge pole; Petrol issue solved.

</rhino>

Horse

24th July 2008, 12:27

Thanks Rhino, good to know.

Morcs

24th July 2008, 12:28

i hear ya, i wouldn;t go near one with a barge pole; Petrol issue solved.

:laugh:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to boomer again.

Devil

24th July 2008, 12:29

turns out Mobil have added 4% ethanol to their fuel and not all bikes/cages can have it. Hyosung's have three big crosses next to it, so Hyosung owners out there be warned, ethanol is NOT for us! :(

This is disturbing. Are you sure it wasn't that station in particular thats delivering the ethanol mix?
I'm a regular Mobil customer.

Devil

24th July 2008, 12:32

Just found this. Trials of ethanol

http://www.mobil.co.nz/mobilcard/ethanol.html

Devil

24th July 2008, 12:34

List of vehicles. Go to page 3 for bikes.
http://www.mia.org.nz/Ethanol%20suitability%20NZ%20new%20models%20only%2 0Amendment%204.pdf

Doesn't have Triumph or KTM listed.

If in doubt. Dont use it!

Page 4 of the document even goes on to say vehicle manufacturers recommend that you dont use it as it damages fuel injection systems!

fireball

24th July 2008, 12:35

ask gubb he works for mobil he will know what the story is

limbimtimwim

24th July 2008, 12:40

That puts Hyosung in good company with Daewoo, MG and Rover.

merv

24th July 2008, 12:40

Finn we can't run the Lamborghini or the Maserati on this stuff.

Devil

24th July 2008, 12:42

Here's the link straight to the table http://www.mia.org.nz/Ethanol%20suitability%20NZ%20new%20models%20only%2 0Amendment%204.pdf

Finn we can't run the Lamborghini or the Maserati on this stuff.

Thats the same doc I posted...

Morcs

24th July 2008, 12:45

:laugh:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to boomer again.

ooh I just got red repd but someone with a gay hyobag...

merv

24th July 2008, 12:49

Thats the same doc I posted...

Yeah we were all doing the same thing reading and posting so I've deleted my now supefluous link.

martybabe

24th July 2008, 13:00

I can use it but I'da been pissed if I'd used and then found out I couldn't, if that makes any bleedin sense. So well done Rhino. ;)

nodrog

24th July 2008, 13:05

That puts Hyosung in good company with Daewoo, MG and Rover.

and Ducati ;)

Badjelly

24th July 2008, 13:07

That puts Hyosung in good company with Daewoo, MG and Rover.
That's not good company.

merv

24th July 2008, 13:25

That's not good company.

..... but with Yamaha is eh :laugh:

BiK3RChiK

24th July 2008, 13:51

Well, it seems to me you had a lucky escape then! Good on the attendant for rushing out and giving you the heads up on that one..

avgas

24th July 2008, 13:58

Doesn't surprise me - Hyosungs aren't built to handle that level of horsepower.

Switch

24th July 2008, 14:00

breakaway

24th July 2008, 14:02

So every Honda after 89 are supported but Ducatii aren't? This is ridiculous.

zeocen

24th July 2008, 14:05

Shitballs! Kawasaki is a "No"

I loved me some Mobil, having Eftpos at the pump suited to my lazy-as-shit lifestyle. Now I'm going to have to actually go in and pay!? D:!!!!

This is a sad day, a sad day for lazy bastards indeed.

<Rhino>

24th July 2008, 14:08

Well, it seems to me you had a lucky escape then! Good on the attendant for rushing out and giving you the heads up on that one..

Yep, after my initial WTF, I ate a bit of humble pie and thanked him for being so attentive. Thumbs up to you man! now I can keep on :scooter: :cold::crazy::apint::yawn::zzzz:

musicman

24th July 2008, 14:22

I work for Mobil, and we don't have it.

Not every station has it. I believe the ones owned by the big guys are changing over.

Our station is run independently so they havn't changed, not sure if they will.
(Mobil Manfeild)

I loved me some Mobil, having Eftpos at the pump suited to my lazy-as-shit lifestyle. Now I'm going to have to actually go in and pay!? D:!!!!

From Devil's post it seems like it's only being trialled at 5 petrol stations in Wellington, so I think people in Auckland don't have anything to worry about... yet.

Just found this. Trials of ethanol

http://www.mobil.co.nz/mobilcard/ethanol.html

Pwalo

24th July 2008, 14:29

The J'ville Mobil is dispensing the ethanol blend as well. it will be interesting to see how sales go for Mobil cf other petrol stations in the area.

JMemonic

24th July 2008, 14:56

Not a worry here in the south island yet but it would be nice to read the info on what can and cant use it, however seems that site is either down or overloaded :(

James Deuce

24th July 2008, 14:58

So every Honda after 89 are supported but Ducatii aren't? This is ridiculous.
No Kawasakis support it either. Rubber or plastic fuel lines and seals, ethanol, and fuel injection don't mix.

Blame the Greens for this one and the political requirement to have biofuels (don't get me started on what that has done to food supply and food prices) in the market place.

My Renault can't use it either.

BiK3RChiK

24th July 2008, 15:00

<Rhino>

24th July 2008, 15:51

Maybe the title of this thread could be changed? Seems it's not just about Hyosungs and Ethanol, but is actually relevant to a number of different bike makes... And may slow down the Hyo bashers, which really is getting a bit :yawn::yawn:

Not a bad idea, I was a bit specific coz it was just all of a sudden, I used to fill up at this station all the time and never even saw any pre-warning notices or anything. Even the warning signs on the pump were tiny!

Nothing wrong with the hyo's I love mine. :headbang::msn-wink:

Ixion

24th July 2008, 16:32

I would be of the most careful using it in two strokes. Ethanol mixes run slightly leaner (cos the ethanol has some oxygen along in the molecule). A wee bit lean on a four stroke is neither here nor there. A wee bit lean in a two stroke may mean either a holed piston or an urgent call to Mr Block and Mr Mallet.

Coyote

24th July 2008, 16:36

OMG HYOSUCKS ARE GHEY LOLOLOLOLOL

Edit: Silly anti-winja caps thing

rwh

24th July 2008, 17:02

Blame the Greens for this one
You're blaming the greens for the high oil prices?

and the political requirement to have biofuels (don't get me started on what that has done to food supply and food prices) in the market place.

Last I heard the Greens were a bit hesitant on the biofuels thing too, for those same reasons.

Better is to just use less fuel full stop.

Richard

Badjelly

24th July 2008, 17:12

That puts Hyosung in good company with Daewoo, MG and Rover.

That's not good company.

..... but with Yamaha is eh :laugh:

Yeah, I looked up the list after I posted. Hey folks, this is serious:eek5:

Rubber or plastic fuel lines and seals, ethanol, and fuel injection don't mix.

Blame the Greens for this one and the political requirement to have biofuels (don't get me started on what that has done to food supply and food prices) in the market place.

OK, but I think some blame has to lie with the vehicle manufacturers. I mean ethanol has been blended with petrol on & off in various places around the world for, what, 3 decades. (I remember encountering it in Colorado in the 1980s.) And they still make vehicles that won't cope with it!?

I won't get you started on biofuel & food prices (I hope) but I'd just like to point out that making ethanol from corn is a bad idea for quite a few different reasons, eg, see what my mate William Connolley says (http://scienceblogs.com/energy/2008/07/the_bigger_picture.php):

From what I've seen, the US ethanol-from-corn program is barely energy-positive: Energy yield from corn ethanol equals approximately 125 percent of the fossil energy used to produce it which would mean the wedge referred to above would require virtually all the worlds croplands, if done with corn ethanol (its better if you use sugar cane, though). But corn ethanol isn't an alternative fuel; its a boondoggle for farmers.
There are other things you can make ethanol from, eg cellulose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol)

SPman

24th July 2008, 17:31

That puts Hyosung in good company with Daewoo, MG and Rover.
I beleive its now spelt "Roewe", since the Chinese bought it.......

apropo of nothing......

boomer

24th July 2008, 17:36

Maybe the title of this thread could be changed? Seems it's not just about Hyosungs and Ethanol, but is actually relevant to a number of different bike makes... And may slow down the Hyo bashers, which really is getting a bit :yawn::yawn:

you could paint the world pink it won't change teh fact that Hyosungs are what they are and will always be recognised as such..... TERRIBLE. I'd be more worried about what urine did to the biek as i know its a common past time in the UK to piss on them when seen in public.

and i too had red from a Hyobag owner, how apt.

James Deuce

24th July 2008, 17:45

You're blaming the greens for the high oil prices?

Absolutely. They've been pouring oil on the flames of ignorance for far too long and with far too little regard for the consequences. Dead people mean nothing to Green Party members despite their claims to the opposite.

The "greenification" of Western Society has EVERYTHING to do with artificially escalating the price of oil via speculation and propaganda. Even the OPEC countries have been murmuring about the price being inflated beyond anything they feel comfortable with.

James Deuce

24th July 2008, 17:47

There are other things you can make ethanol from, eg cellulose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellulosic_ethanol)

The highest yields are coming from algae grown on sewerage farms. There's one in Nelson trialling an algae developed here in NZ.

The energy positive equation is quite interesting. Oil has become vastly more efficient in the last 20 years. Hydrogen in gas form will always be energy negative and fuel cells are ghey.

Horse

24th July 2008, 18:09

The "greenification" of Western Society has EVERYTHING to do with artificially escalating the price of oil via speculation and propaganda.

Uh, no, it doesn't.

Meekey_Mouse

24th July 2008, 18:11

Just go to BP.... Problem solved!:bleh:

Gubb

24th July 2008, 18:14

Don't fret.

It's only being trialled in Wellington. There are two varieties, E3 and E10, the E3 shouldn't be a problem, and is the equivalent of 91, the E10 is best avoided unless the fact sheet says it's OK, this is the new 98.

Due to a Government mandate, all servos will be bringing out Ethanol fuel, but so far, Mobil is the first Major, Gull did it a while back.

Only selected sites have Ethanol fuel (i.e. only the ones that used to sell 98), the others still have the old dinosaur-juice.

James Deuce

24th July 2008, 18:22

Uh, no, it doesn't.
Have a think about that before you reflexively deny it.

James Deuce

24th July 2008, 18:25

Don't fret.

unless the fact sheet says it's It;s only being trialled in Wellington. There are two varieties, E3 and E10, the E3 shouldn't be a problem, and is the equivalent of 91, the E10 is best avoided OK, this is the new 98.

Due to a Government mandate, all servos will be bringing out Ethanol fuel, but so far, Mobil is the first Major, Gull did it a while back.

Only selected sites have Ethanol fuel (i.e. only the ones that used to sell 98), the others still have the old dinosaur-juice.
It is actually an issue. Fuel economy is disastrous if I stick fuel with ethanol in it in my Kwaka. I lose between 40 and 70 kms of tank range and the bike won't idle without choke. The pump labeling has to improve. It's practically invisible.

marty

24th July 2008, 18:30

Better is to just use less fuel full stop.

Richard

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Gubb

24th July 2008, 18:31

Agreed, I will be avoiding Ethanol fuel in the Bike and Car (which it is OK to run with).

The thing that fucks me off is that it's being touted as "clean and green". Due to the Ethanol being imported from Brazil, and the associated deforestation, shipping costs etc, it works out to have a greater carbon footprint than sticking to regular fossil fuel.

Green my arse.

<Rhino>

24th July 2008, 19:14

OMG HYOSUCKS ARE GHEY LOLOLOLOLOL

Edit: Silly anti-winja caps thing

I ride, feel the wind, dodge the cages, have near misses, get wet, commute, and enjoy it it all JUST LIKE YOU............all on my hyosung. No different to you mate. Dosn't matter whats on the side oif the bike, its still a bike.

Coyote

24th July 2008, 21:43

I ride, feel the wind, dodge the cages, have near misses, get wet, commute, and enjoy it it all JUST LIKE YOU............all on my hyosung. No different to you mate. Dosn't matter whats on the side oif the bike, its still a bike.
Oh no, we're different. My nice reliable Japanese Honda VFR is stuck in the garage waiting for an enormous sum of money to fix it :laugh:

Shouldn't be laughing as it's actually quite depressing...

I thought my comment was inane enough to be recognised as a pisstake?

A Hyosung GT650R was the first big bike I rode. Not quite as fun as the 636 I rode straight afterward, but it had a Cycleworks pipe that sounded absolutely beautiful. Crackled whenever you let go of the gas, like a rally car :D

Horse

24th July 2008, 22:06

Have a think about that before you reflexively deny it.

Well, if we're just going to argue by stating bald assertions as fact, I thought I was on pretty safe ground.

CB ARGH

24th July 2008, 22:12

That's some scary shit. They should have a warning sign up or something.

brendonjw

25th July 2008, 00:08

Hmmm not good news for my kawa or nissan :crybaby:

Shadows

25th July 2008, 00:19

Arseholes with their queer agendas. The stuff is simply no good if you give a rat's arse about your vehicle and soon we'll all have no choice but to pour the crap into our tanks in varying concentrations.

GREENIE HOMOS GET FUCKED.

Gremlin

25th July 2008, 03:37

Just go to BP.... Problem solved!:bleh:
not really... having had a fuel card with them... ummm I don't any more... Their policies are shit. A short while ago, they were fantastic at leading the market in pricing, and they are often the first to raise prices.

So, I own a kwaka, shortly something else. Gull has ethanol, Mobil is trialling... Shortly it will be Shell and Caltex only... blimey :wacko:

What happens when I can't get fuel without ethanol, and it fucks the bike? Who pays? :angry2:

JMemonic

25th July 2008, 08:11

What happens when I can't get fuel without ethanol, and it fucks the bike? Who pays? :angry2:

Good question really.

Ethanol gets most of the older cars off the road, which the government love the idea of they don't give a rats about vintage cars, bike, or machinery at all.

As to environmentally friendly its a deadly poison, and apparently more eco-toxic that petrol, how the hell is that "green".

Badjelly

25th July 2008, 09:51

As to environmentally friendly its a deadly poison

But not bad in a single malt whisky, I find.

avgas

25th July 2008, 12:39

oooooooooooooo dat enthanol tis black magic........change is baaaaaaaaaad baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad

Morcs

25th July 2008, 14:03

Funny thing, the NZ and OZ lists of vehicles dont match.

One says No No No to suzukis, the other says Yes Yes Yes.

The Pastor

25th July 2008, 14:26

I thought my comment was inane enough to be recognised as a pisstake?

Hes a hyobag rider, they are obviously retarded if they paid money for a hyobag.

brendonjw

25th July 2008, 14:55

What parts would need to be changed to make a vehicle able to take a ethanol mix safely? :2guns:

Gubb

25th July 2008, 16:55

That's some scary shit. They should have a warning sign up or something.

They do. On the pumps.

Gremlin

25th July 2008, 18:36

Ethanol gets most of the older cars off the road, which the government love the idea of they don't give a rats about vintage cars, bike, or machinery at all.
I would hardly call a 2004 zx10 old :Pokey: especially when you look at the cars that are on the road.

Plus, KTM and Aprilia, right up until this year is not even listed... so theoretically, its possible that 2008 motorbikes are not compatible.

I love the forethought of this government. If I treated my clients like that, we wouldn't have any :oi-grr:

sinfull

25th July 2008, 19:07

ooh I just got red repd but someone with a gay hyobag...
What is it with them Hyo riders and the red rep they give out !

Better is to just use less fuel full stop.

Richard Slaps his forehead !

and i too had red from a Hyobag owner, how apt.
Crikey someones giving hyosung/riders a bad name, i had one given to me just the other day by a hyo rider !

So far i've read here that it affects the rubbers and plastics in injector systems as well as causing corrosion in the injectors and the tank and less miles per tank full ! For the same cost, or has the price of said feul come down ?

Gremlin

25th July 2008, 19:08

For the same cost, or has the price of said feul come down ?
:killingme come down? :killingme

sinfull

25th July 2008, 19:17

:killingme come down? :killingme

I very much doubt it either, was more a P/T question lol
Its a bit like user pays ! Did our taxes come down ?

TimeOut

25th July 2008, 21:29

I love the forethought of this government. If I treated my clients like that, we wouldn't have any :oi-grr:

I don't think Labour will have many clients (voters) left either

scumdog

25th July 2008, 21:31

Finn we can't run the Lamborghini or the Maserati on this stuff.

Fuck yer Eyetalion cars, what about me classic Dearborn iron???

In the States they found out all sorts of problems (it don't like alloy, rubber) when it was introduced as Gasahol in the 80's-90's.

It won't be just High-oh-sung riders that will have worries using the shit.

Ixion

25th July 2008, 21:32

Well, a PROPER Yankee grunter wouldn't have any alloy in it! Y' buy the cheap modern wannabe, that's what happens. Cast iron FTW.

scumdog

25th July 2008, 21:34

Well, a PROPER Yankee grunter wouldn't have any alloy in it! Y' buy the cheap modern wannabe, that's what happens. Cast iron FTW.

Sadly they DO have fuel pumps and carbys - damn inconsiderate!!

JMemonic

25th July 2008, 21:45

I would hardly call a 2004 zx10 old :Pokey: especially when you look at the cars that are on the road.

Agreed but to those who don't actually have to pay for their transportation, (hmm does the purchase of our rail system back count, nah it was the taxpayers money), anything older than last year is old.

Plus, KTM and Aprilia, right up until this year is not even listed... so theoretically, its possible that 2008 motorbikes are not compatible.

Yeap heck I would actually like to see the list but that site seems to be down, those in power are morons with no clues, I mean they cant even get together on issues of road safety (or is that work out what road safety is) aside from heavier fines.

Gremlin

27th July 2008, 04:18

Yeap heck I would actually like to see the list but that site seems to be down,
hmmm a lot are mentioning this... I have downloaded the pdf and attached it, so if people just need to see the list of vehicles (bikes are on page 3) then here it is.

Dino

27th July 2008, 09:13

Thanks for posting that up Gremlin.

After reading page four of the attachment it has to make you wonder why you would want to put ethanol in any vehicle.

.

brendonjw

27th July 2008, 12:50

Plus, KTM and Aprilia, right up until this year is not even listed... so theoretically, its possible that 2008 motorbikes are not compatible.

I just bought a 08 Ninja and according to that list NONE of the Kawas can use it WTF:blink:

JMemonic

27th July 2008, 13:49

Many thanks Gremlin, I don't know what it is but every time I try to access that site I get a page load error or better yet no DNS record when I check that.

Big Zappa

27th July 2008, 14:46

Amendment No. 4

THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION OUTLINES THE KEY REASONS WHY VEHICLE MANUFACTURERS DO NOT RECOMMEND THE USE OF ANY ETHANOL/PETROL BLENDED FUELS IN VEHICLES.

Ethanol has a number of important chemical and physical properties that need to be considered in a vehicle’s design.

Carburettor Equipped Engines

Vehicles made before 1986 vehicles were predominantly equipped with carburettors and steel fuel tanks.

The use of ethanol blended petrol in engines impacts the air/fuel ratio because of the additional oxygen molecules within the ethanol’s chemical structure.

Vehicles with carburettor fuel systems may experience hot fuel handling concerns. This is because the vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol will be greater (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted) and probability of vapour lock or hot restartability problems will be increased.

As a solvent, ethanol attacks both the metallic and rubber based fuel lines, and other fuel system components.

Ethanol also has an affinity to water that can result in corrosion of fuel tanks and fuel lines. Rust resulting from this corrosion can ultimately block the fuel supply rendering the engine inoperable. Water in the fuel system can also result in the engine hesitating and running roughly.

Fuel Injected Engines

In addition to the issues mentioned above for carburettor equipped engines, the use of ethanol blended petrol in fuel injection systems will result in early deterioration of components such as injector seals, delivery pipes, and fuel pump and regulator.

Mechanical fuel injection systems and earlier electronic systems may not be able to fully compensate for the lean-out effect of ethanol blended petrol, resulting in hesitation or flat-spots during acceleration.

Difficulty in starting and engine hesitation after cold start can also result.

Exhaust and Evaporative Emission Levels

Lean-out resulting from the oxygenating effect of ethanol in the fuel may affect exhaust emissions.

Of more concern is that fuel containing ethanol can increase permeation emissions from fuel system components, particularly those that have aged for nearly 20 years. Therefore the increased vapour pressure of fuel with ethanol (if the base fuel is not chemically adjusted at the refining stage) will lead to increased evaporative emissions.

Good god sounds like some proper nasty stuff.

Ixion

27th July 2008, 14:48

Good god sounds like some proper nasty stuff.

Sure is. Disolves motorcycles !

And just think - you drink the nasty stuff!

Big Zappa

27th July 2008, 14:50

And just think - you drink the nasty stuff!

Ugh don't remind me...

avgas

27th July 2008, 22:03

does it attack silicon based fuel lines? as the last bike i had rubber on was the TS185.
Also doesn't any fuel attack rubber?

Gubb

27th July 2008, 22:10

Rubber and Ethanol are a no-go.

Brett

27th July 2008, 22:17

That would explain exactly why my car has been running like shit. GREAT. Fuel lines, injectors, corrosion...what a wonderful list.

Brett

27th July 2008, 22:20

It says it is ok in Suzuki's, but still I will not be using it in the bike. Bugger that.

Ocean1

27th July 2008, 22:24

does it attack silicon based fuel lines?

Not at the temperatures your bike lives in. Well... not for a long time.

doesn't any fuel attack rubber?

Rubber and Ethanol are a no-go.

Rubber ain't a proper word dudes, it's generally held to mean "sorta soft an' squishy". "Rubber" components on vehicules might be one of a small number of synthetics, neoprene, nitrile etc. Replace the existing "rubber" with one compatible with the newfangled gas and you won't have a problem.

'Course, you might have to tweak the tuning too...

Biggles2000

27th July 2008, 22:27

Its the same story all over again..... Remember a few jears ago when they introduced the new unleaded fuel and caused a few people problems with old cars. I had to re fuel line and do a pump and carb rubber parts overhaul on my old MG Midget. Well the old MG will run fine on 5% Methanol now but was a bit of a pain at the time. I guess I was kind of lucky that I could get the parts in synethetic rubber for the fuel system. I bet that the owners of older jap cars won't be so lucky.

speedpro

27th July 2008, 23:04

Alcohol is hygroscopic. Tipping a litre of methylated spirits into the gas tank used to be a way of absorbing any water that may have been lurking in a crevice at the bottom, thereby stopping the dreaded pinhole leak happening when it finally rusted out. Years later the same thing now "causes" corrosion in tanks. Interesting. The methylated spirits with the fuel absorbed into it was burnt in the usual way by the engine.

Also those lists of vehicles were made after consulting importers and agents here in NZ. If no definitive documents were available from the manufacturer then most likely whoever they asked would not approve the blended fuel in their vehicles. It's called "butt covering". It doesn't neccessarily mean your vehicle will have a problem with the fuel, just that noone they asked is willing to say it won't.

Fuel lines I've been told may be either petrol(tolulene/toluol) proof or alcohol proof, not both. However in low concentrations methanol will have indiscernable effects on normal flexible fuel system components. The unleaded fuel we are now stuck with has high concentrations of toluol which is an industrial solvent and pretty nasty stuff. It was this stuff that dissolved fuel lines and caused all the problems when unleaded was introduced.

I normally run 100 octane in my bucket and my boys KX80. I have some jugs and things I use for mixing the fuel. The other day I mixed a batch of pump gas for the KX and dissolved one mixing container in about 5 seconds.