Passing on yellow flags....

[CHOPPA]

Hey just a quick question, are you allowed to pass lapped riders on a yellow flag?

[Nasty]

thats a quick answer question - No.

[Mom]

NO and a few spaces to 10

[Number One]

No passing under yellow means NO passing under yellow.

[Frenchy]

What if you've passed the carnage and the next marshal has there yellow out?

[Nasty]

What if you've passed the carnage and the next marshal has there yellow out?

You need to read the rule book and work that out. If you are a racer and don't know these things - you should not be racing!

[ozrobo]

no you cant :Playnice:

[Frenchy]

You need to read the rule book and work that out. If you are a racer and don't know these things - you should not be racing!

You need to pull your head in fag boy!:angry: nothing against the marshals but some i've seen put there flag out cause the see some one else has there's out even if its after the crash.

[ArcherWC]

sometimes they will go full course yellow for a crash that requires assistance but not bad enough for red ie on the racing line but no injury

[justsomeguy]

Which part of "NO PASSING UNDER YELLOW FLAGS" don't you understand??

If you do you get black flagged, then when you come in to the pits you get a huge bollocking. Do it again and you get told politely to fcoughck off home, or so I saw in a movie on the telewithvision.

[Gremlin]

nothing against the marshals but some i've seen put there flag out cause the see some one else has there's out even if its after the crash.
it IS possible that something else has happened on the track y'know :D

Also depends what flags a point has, ie, if a race is stopped, and you don't have a red, you use yellow.

edit: also, mid pack, its bloody hard to know who is a lapped rider, who is not. OK for the first few riders, but once it descends into the pack, basically impossible. Therefore... its nice and easy... under yellow... no-one is passing, and if they are, we report it.

[scott411]

,

and Choppa, you are not aloud to pass anyone under a yellow, and no jumping either ;)

[scrivy]

or you could pass riders under the yellow flag multiple times, then winge at the officials and the process when they finally harden up and take some points away, then take MNZ to court to try and win a title that way, lose their as well, and still never admit you were wrong,
;)

Dude, if you're referring to Stroudy, then you should get the facts right first.

[scott411]

fair call, post edited

[Shaun]

fair call, post edited




Good on ya for editing that post

[scott411]

cheers Shaun, i think we sometimes we all write some stuff on here with out really thinking it though fully,

[CHOPPA]

Well if thats the case there needs to be alot more monitoring of the rule!! In the wet at the last vic club meeting there were bikes doing 2 min lap times and the leaders were doing 1 15s, there were several yellow flags but i can assure you none of the leading bikes stopped behind a slow lapped rider for an entire lap or yellow section!!

I know that theres no passing under a yellow flag but as your not passing for position then i thought it might be ok so i followed all the other riders passed.

No one wants to go protesting at a club race but how would it be dealt with if I was to not pass a slow slow rider whilst all the other competitors did...?

I can understand with mx because generally in mx everyone slows down because theres no run off and the person is on the track but in road racing ive never seen anyone slow down and in my understanding if you need to slow down the race should be red flagged of coarse you have to be carefull and maybe back down to 90% or something but whos to say what 90% of your riding is...

Thanks for your answers everyone i now know the law! Even though it sounds straight forward even after years of racing i wasnt totally sure and i know that theres alot of people with the same mind set....

[boomer]

You need to pull your head in fag boy!:angry: nothing against the marshals but some i've seen put there flag out cause the see some one else has there's out even if its after the crash.

ahaha i think thats fag girl.

and Choppa raises a good point.. no passing surely means 'NO passing'.. not 'no passing for position'..

[Shaun]

cheers Shaun, i think we sometimes we all write some stuff on here with out really thinking it though fully,



YEP, I have been guilty of ther same thing mate

[wharfy]

I have been passed while under a yellow flag and it gives you a bit of a fright because you are:

a) not expecting it.

b) going slower than normal racing speed so the differential is grater than usual.

It also pisses you off a bit because you think, "is this guy blind, and didn't see the flag or deaf and/or wasn't listening at the riders briefing or just being a prick ?"

[sidecar bob]

fair call, post edited

Cheers mate, I have removed my wee outburst too. :mad:

[ajturbo]

hey people,, if you see someone passing on a yellow, please tell the rider's rep (yer it was me last Vic round) and i will pass on to the correct person, but i will need name/number, "Mel" would MORE THAN likely have seen the maneuver, but it will not hurt to make it known to the RIGHT people...

[roadracingoldfart]

It means dont overtake at all (including lapped bikes) and be prepared to stop if the track is blocked.
If you are passed at a yellow flag incident and you lose a position then protest the offending rider. the riders rep is announced at every riders briefing.

I dont accept the club level meeting mindset some people have as racing is racing and danger occurs at club and national / international level. We all need to be aware of the rules and as its so easy to get a comp licence it is often overlooked, even if the flags are explained at riders briefing.

VMCC has become the largest race series in the country and as such the rules have to be followed and if broken the punishment must be the same as a national event. The MNZ steward will enforce any breach he is made aware of. Safety is the reason they are present at the meeting.

[Nasty]

You need to pull your head in fag boy!:angry: nothing against the marshals but some i've seen put there flag out cause the see some one else has there's out even if its after the crash.

Boomer is right ... I is a girl .. and sorry to all I am not a fag. I got over that years ago.

Point 1 - been made by others

Point 2 - there are penalties for passing under yellow.

Point 3 - read the regs - and obey that is what they are there for, YOU can see a small portion of what is going on ... think of how you feel when lying on the track .. when other riders are zooming past ---- as a rider you can not see a lot - understand that as race organisers (of which I am one for Vic Club) I can see a damn sight more and have more communications across the entire track than riders do.

I hope the others got you over your little "faggy" temperment - if not get over yourself and read the bloody regs - if you see wrong doing report it.

[Grub]

I know that theres no passing under a yellow flag but as your not passing for position then i thought it might be ok so i followed all the other riders passed.....

If you think about it .... it's a safety thing so why would you be allowed to pass some but not others?

Think about it being you and your bike lying in the middle of the track. Passing under yellow doesn't seem such a flash idea then. What the yellow is doing is stopping racing without stopping the race - it doesn't matter what all the relative lap times would be.

The bottom line is under yellow you should be down to a speed that enables you to possibly stop or at least avoid whatever it might be just around the apex of the corner. It just makes sense and that's why the penalties are severe, they were announced at rider's briefing.

[Nicksta]

this is a clear cut rule.....
that said.. there is room for debate.... I have witnessed while racing some and all of the following: passing, going race pace, going slow, lapped riders going so slow they are almost backwards (last VMCC) during yellows.
with the above mentioned... it is hard as a racer when you see a yellow, obviously you immediately taka caution through th eyellow area, you assess the area and make a judgement, should i slow lots or a little, should i raise my arm and warn others of a big danger? where is the next flag booth and do they have a yellow also? I like to think if its a concentrated yellow, ie one booth only, you can get back to racing when your clear of the caution or is it full course yellow? Passing someone would mean a change in the placing order, but in the case of a lapped rider, it actually doesnt change the standings at all, so does it affect anyone? But the rule is steadfast, no passing anyone on yellow.

One point i do have to make as a racer, yes we appreciate the volunteers who marshal for us, and totally appreciate it on weekends like last, when it was raining and cold. But it is hard for us to see the flags sometimes and are only human and miss them sometimes. I know I have an issue with seeing flags that are "held" and not waving. My eye sight is not the best and if its waving, catches my eye a lot better, and in the "heat of battle" if its not waving i might miss it as i'm busy watching the bike thats 10cm away from me.

I watched Paeroa this year from the bank by the hairpin. The marshalls there had one man with the red and one in charge of the yellow. Now how confusing is it to see a yellow and a red waved simultaneously? well these guys seemed to both put their respective flags out weather it was a caution or stop call. If i was a racer on that track (and yes i'm blonde, but) I would have been totally confused as to weather i was supposed to be just heeding caution or slowing and preparing for the race to stop. I watched some racers take caution and some slow right up only to find a yellow further on and loose places and race pace. Sometimes we need the marshals to help us help them.

that said, club racing is where we learn to race and gain valueable experience hopefully we arent punished too much for little mistakes.

[Gremlin]

I know I have an issue with seeing flags that are "held" and not waving. My eye sight is not the best and if its waving, catches my eye a lot better
Yep, can understand movement is easier to see, however, its the regs that dictate how we use the flag. Yellow can be waved or held, means different things, and the red is NEVER waved.

Also, marshals are not thick on the ground, so often newer ones are being trained... they all have to start somewhere.

I guess the other thing is that when the action is thick, castrol at pukie is one <_<, things can happen very quickly, and 5 seconds may not sound like a lot to check correct flags are out, plan how to attend the incident, whether the race has to be stopped, does the ambo have to be called... but 5 seconds for you guys is ages.

Our number one priority is our safety (can't help ya if we've been collected), then fallen riders (have to be prioritised) and while picking you up, we also have to keep an eye on the track, are people passing, are they a danger to us, etc... so yes, you guys may be frustrated you can't pass, but from my viewpoint, a postion or two means bugger all compared to injuries. Safety comes first, you want to race at the next round don't you?

[Grub]

"Mel" would MORE THAN likely have seen the maneuver, but it will not hurt to make it known to the RIGHT people...

Often we don't see the passing manouvre AJ, we rely on the flag marshalls to keep an eye out as well. When someone goes down we're intently focussed on the incident because there's several things we need to know in milliseconds, before the next bike or bikes get there
- Are the rider and bike on the track?
- Is the rider moving and getting up?
- Is there debris obstrucing the track?
- Do we need to roll the Ambulance?
- Is there oil or petrol on the track?

In that split second the decision to Red Flag or continue under Yellow is made. It depends on a safe balance between the safety of the fallen rider and the safety of the rest of the field and it assumes responsible riding by those coming up to the incident.

[Nasty]

That said and done, I know that the Steward has seen people doing this and cautioned them ... in addition to the calls on radio from the marshalls.

[CHOPPA]

I fully agree and appreciate the yellow flag rule, i know from experience when someone doesnt obey it, it can really hurt! I still have a chunk out of me ass from someone who landed on me on a yellow flag.....

[Drew]

Pain in the arse when ya dont see the first of two yellow flags and get bumped from secong to fourth place.

Shafted myself out of a hundy at Paeroa for that.

[CHOPPA]

that sucks! you would understand my logic passing a lapper and passing for position are 2 totally diff things...

rules are the same for everyone though

[Drew]

that sucks! you would understand my logic passing a lapper and passing for position are 2 totally diff things...

rules are the same for everyone though

Yeah, I guess the idea is safety, but it sucks when it costs ya.

[codgyoleracer]

Yellow is a caution flag , no passing of any other vehicle on the track. Some clubs seem to differentiate between a stationary Yellow (moderate caution) & a waved yellow (extreme caution). The rule to the rider is the same though (waved or unwaved), slow down, be aware of potential issues that you may not be able to see & no passing.
There is a "gentlemans theory" that you can undo a mistaken passing manouvre under a yellow ......... I have seen this done & I have done it myself in the past (in situations where you are braking as hard as you can & STILL cant stop behind the rider in front of you). - However i suspect that strictly speaking it will be a penalty to the passing rider if the officials so desire.

[Burrt Badger]

If you have passed a rider (any rider) under a yellow because you either didnt see the flag or you could not avoid passing him/her, then if you allow that rider to re pass you, no action will be taken, BUT, if you do not allow him/her to re pass you, you are liable to be penalised. If someone passes you under a Yellow Flag, then approach the Steward, Riders Rep or Clerk of the Course. What sometimes happens is that the corner workers are a bit busy and dont see the passes, therefore they do not report them to Race Control.

This rule is in place for not only your safety (Be it that you are lying prone on or near the track or a crashed bike is in a dangerous position and you could hit it and crash yourself), but the safety of the track workers.

[Number One]

Yeah, I guess the idea is safety, but it sucks when it costs ya.
Better to cost you a placing than someone their life I spose....

[ajturbo]

that brings up a concern that i have about WHERE the flag marshalls are....
i can see...
start/finish
first corner (just)
3rd (splash)
5th (hairpin)
...
i am sure there are more but not where i am looking
just remembered the one at the end of the back stright. (coming into start/finish)

where is the one at higgins....

oh thats right way the fuck off to the left...
i am sure MOST riders are NOT LOOKING LEFT when entering higgins........
so if you over take on yellow there.. i recon you could get away with

"what yellow???"

[Nasty]

just to raise rider awareness ... the yellows are held out on the first lap each time that the bikes are out ... so you will know where the flag points are.

[ajturbo]

just to raise rider awareness ... the yellows are held out on the first lap each time that the bikes are out ... so you will know where the flag points are.
stillll

who looks left when turning right???

what i am saying is that i think WE need to re-think that flag point to a more pratical postion....
ie ... on the INSIDE of the right hand corner....where we as RACERS are looking....

ok so I don't "race"..lol...

[Drew]

stillll

who looks left when turning right???

what i am saying is that i think WE need to re-think that flag point to a more pratical postion....
ie ... on the INSIDE of the right hand corner....where we as RACERS are looking....

ok so I don't "race"..lol...

The only time I've missed seeing one, is at Paeroa. That was only really because of the sea of colours already in the crowd I think.

They stand out well at Manfield and Taupo, same at Ruapuna. Pukie is a bit dodgy comin over the hill, but fine once you know the marshal is in a tower.

[ajturbo]

The only time I've missed seeing one, is at Paeroa. That was only really because of the sea of colours already in the crowd I think.

They stand out well at Manfield and Taupo, same at Ruapuna. Pukie is a bit dodgy comin over the hill, but fine once you know the marshal is in a tower.
well boy.. you should try and see things at MY speed.....
then you will know what i am talking about....

on another note.. have you actually made it to Higgins yet?........... hehehehehehe

[Nasty]

well boy.. you should try and see things at MY speed.....
then you will know what i am talking about....

on another note.. have you actually made it to Higgins yet?........... hehehehehehe

Are you mixing up drew with his brother whitetrash? ...????

[ajturbo]

Are you mixing up drew with his brother whitetrash? ...????
err.. now you got me thinking..........

[JayRacer37]

I agree with Drew, I've never had a problem seeing flags at Manfeild, when you are on track with green grass and grey tarmac, colours really stand out, wherever they are. Street racing makes it harder tho, for sure.

My problem with recognising flags is when marshalls wear innapropriatly coloured Hi-Viz!! A flaggie running around in a yellow of even discoloured Orange Hi-Viz always looks like a waved yellow to me at speed!

The yellow flag rule is a difficult one...though there is no passing, to me that isn't always the problem. At national level, I am aware there may be a problem, but for a still yellow flag, I don't slow down...Because if I do and the people i'm chasing or are chasing me don't, i've just lost a LOT of time! And when you are under the flag, it seems to me the problem would be speed of other riders being too high, not any potential passing.... but thats just my take on it :) Clearly the no passing rule is there to try and slow everyone down because you arn't going to loose a place slowing, but even losing time is very bad, enough that means for me I may be more aware of whats going on, bt not slowing - EG my pole lap at levels earlier this year had a yellow flag at the harpin, cos someone had run off...

[ajturbo]

I agree with Drew, I've never had a problem seeing flags at Manfeild, when you are on track with green grass and grey tarmac, colours really stand out, wherever they are. Street racing makes it harder tho, for sure.

My problem with recognising flags is when marshalls wear innapropriatly coloured Hi-Viz!! A flaggie running around in a yellow of even discoloured Orange Hi-Viz always looks like a waved yellow to me at speed!

The yellow flag rule is a difficult one...though there is no passing, to me that isn't always the problem. At national level, I am aware there may be a problem, but for a still yellow flag, I don't slow down...Because if I do and the people i'm chasing or are chasing me don't, i've just lost a LOT of time! And when you are under the flag, it seems to me the problem would be speed of other riders being too high, not any potential passing.... but thats just my take on it :) Clearly the no passing rule is there to try and slow everyone down because you arn't going to loose a place slowing, but even losing time is very bad, enough that means for me I may be more aware of whats going on, bt not slowing - EG my pole lap at levels earlier this year had a yellow flag at the harpin, cos someone had run off...
soooo...
what your saying is..

that you lot are going so much SLOWER than me???

[Drew]

soooo...
what your saying is..

that you lot are going so much SLOWER than me???


Nope, you're old and half blind is what we're sayin fella.

[CHOPPA]

I agree with Drew, I've never had a problem seeing flags at Manfeild, when you are on track with green grass and grey tarmac, colours really stand out, wherever they are. Street racing makes it harder tho, for sure.

My problem with recognising flags is when marshalls wear innapropriatly coloured Hi-Viz!! A flaggie running around in a yellow of even discoloured Orange Hi-Viz always looks like a waved yellow to me at speed!

The yellow flag rule is a difficult one...though there is no passing, to me that isn't always the problem. At national level, I am aware there may be a problem, but for a still yellow flag, I don't slow down...Because if I do and the people i'm chasing or are chasing me don't, i've just lost a LOT of time! And when you are under the flag, it seems to me the problem would be speed of other riders being too high, not any potential passing.... but thats just my take on it :) Clearly the no passing rule is there to try and slow everyone down because you arn't going to loose a place slowing, but even losing time is very bad, enough that means for me I may be more aware of whats going on, bt not slowing - EG my pole lap at levels earlier this year had a yellow flag at the harpin, cos someone had run off...

Yes def agree, its good to get another racers perspective, what would you do at say the nationals it was wet or something you have a huge lead and you come up behind some guy going so slow cause he has chosen slicks instead of wets and you just enter a yellow flagged zone you can see the fallen rider way off the track its safe as to pass cause he is going so slow, he aint gonna care cause he is just getting lapped what would you do?

Seen its in the rulebook id just follow him and let everyone catch up but maybe others wouldnt.........

[Gremlin]

The other thing to remember, is that while 1) you may think you know where all the issues are, you may not, and 2) if you can't overtake, it leaves more attention for other issues, and this may include looking at things/areas you may not normally look at.

This could make all the difference, depending on situation, as trying to overtake can use up a lot of concentration, narrower vision etc.

[JayRacer37]

Yes def agree, its good to get another racers perspective, what would you do at say the nationals it was wet or something you have a huge lead and you come up behind some guy going so slow cause he has chosen slicks instead of wets and you just enter a yellow flagged zone you can see the fallen rider way off the track its safe as to pass cause he is going so slow, he aint gonna care cause he is just getting lapped what would you do?

Seen its in the rulebook id just follow him and let everyone catch up but maybe others wouldnt.........

Yeah, thing is when you go past someone that dog slow it isn't even really a 'pass'...it doesn't take concentration to move by, and it isn't going to be a problem for anyone. Therefore, it usually doesn't go anywhere beyond the track.

[CHOPPA]

Yeah, thing is when you go past someone that dog slow it isn't even really a 'pass'...it doesn't take concentration to move by, and it isn't going to be a problem for anyone. Therefore, it usually doesn't go anywhere beyond the track.

Thats how i see it too bro, passing a lapped rider and passing someone you are racing is totally diff

[Shaun]

Thats how i see it too bro, passing a lapped rider and passing someone you are racing is totally diff



TRUE that BUT!!!!!

The yellow flag is out for a reason.

WHETHER THE RIDERS THINK IT IS REQUIRED OR NOT

Some times the calls made, can be the wrong ones, but better to have a high speed freight train, IN CONTROL, THAN OUT of CONTROL

SO NO PASSING ANY BIKES ON THE YELLOW AT ALL:beer:

[scott411]

i agree with Shaun, no passing means no passing, if the guy in front of you passes someone, sort it out afterward with the stewards,

[kickingzebra]

I can see the confusion, been at both ends of the spectrum, getting my slow arse lapped under a yellow, and lapping others, been out of the hairpin at manfield as the yellow has been called, I am going twice the speed of the lapped rider, and passed them while braking as hard as possible, and then, yeah, you have to wonder do you allow them to repass or what?

[Kiwi Graham]

Its simple, pass on a yellow and your going to get pinged!!! dont matter who's infront or how fast there going. If your hard on the brakes and still pass em let back in front, you can stuff his slow ass under green. The flags keep it easy, you can stop after the black and white one comes out!!