$92,000

[R6_kid]

Serious question.

If you needed to come up with this sort of money within 6-12 months time how would you go about it?

Assuming you were currently earning $40k a year, had assets worth approx $14k to sell if need be, and were willing to relocate if need be.

[Marmoot]

2nd job to extend your working hours to 12-15 hours per day for 4 out of 7 weekly days.
3rd job in the weekend.

[Indiana_Jones]

Rob a bank or win the lotto

Or both.

-Indy

[R6_kid]

Ok, assuming that you got a decent pay rate of around $15/hr for 4hrs per night, mon-fri, thats another $300/wk or $14k after a year before tax.

After tax, over a whole year, that would cover basic living costs, and leave the $31200 or so earnt on the $40k a year job to go into the bank.

Still need to find another $60,000.

It's a start.

[R6_kid]

Rob a bank or win the lotto

Or both.

-Indy

Would rather stick to things that are likely to happen and that have no legal implications.

[Mikkel]

Sell a kidney...

...or get them off GE money.

That's a lot of money in a hurry, though. Quick money usually comes at a high cost. I hope you figure something out.

[Marmoot]

a decent pay rate of around $15/hr

why...........

[R6_kid]

why...........

Why what? Unless someone is throwing cash away I dont expect to be hugely paid for part-time evening work. All the people my age I know that are working evenings are on between $12.50 - $17/hr depending on experience in the given field.

[Indiana_Jones]

well regarding the 2nd and 3rd jobs, you do take into account secondary job tax rate right?

-Indy

[Marmoot]

Why what? Unless someone is throwing cash away I dont expect to be hugely paid for part-time evening work. All the people my age I know that are working evenings are on between $12.50 - $17/hr depending on experience in the given field.

Why settle on your comfort zone when you dream of pushing every limit.
That's the 'why'.

[kiwifruit]

Move to Aussie and work in the mines

Sell assets, buy house, hope the equity increases

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Serious question.

If you needed to come up with this sort of money within 6-12 months time how would you go about it?

Assuming you were currently earning $40k a year, had assets worth approx $14k to sell if need be, and were willing to relocate if need be.



Depending what said money was for ask you parents to guarantor the differance that you have not saved.

[imdying]

I'd just take a loan out... if I had a year, could probably cut the amount I needed to loan in half. Depends on what it's for though, could perhaps raise some capital?

[hellnback]

Move in with parents, pay them nothing. Don't go out, don't spend any money.

[Mr Merde]

Register as a sex worker and find out which ports the Greek tanker fleet docks at

[jrandom]

What do you need it for?

If it's for a genuine business opportunity, go forth and find an investor who believes in you and will let you have a 10% stake in the results, then start immediately.

Otherwise, just start a cannabis-growing operation. A production rate of 1kg per month will clear you your 90K well before the year's out.

:niceone:

[HenryDorsetCase]

if you want it legitemately, chuck in your present peasant wages, buy a plane ticket to perth, and go work in the mines for that time frame.

and by work I mean just that: eat, sleep work, eat sleep work for as long as it takes. Bank every dime. You could easy have 90 large in that time.

[Waxxa]

Change your job direction and change jobs or know your worth and ask for a pay rise. this will increase your yearly takings.

With the increased earnings you can then approach a bank for a personal loan, which for the amount you are looking at you will need to have the means to pay it back.

Second and third jobs decimate your personal life and I wouldnt recommend it if at all possible. Work smarter and not harder.

[HenryDorsetCase]

What do you need it for?

If it's for a genuine business opportunity, go forth and find an investor who believes in you and will let you have a 10% stake in the results, then start immediately.

Otherwise, just start a cannabis-growing operation. A production rate of 1kg per month will clear you your 90K well before the year's out.

:niceone:

who buys a kilo of pot? isnt it still sold in imperial measure? ;)

[ManDownUnder]

Depends what it's for.

No matter what - set up a budget.

If it's for an appreciating asset I'd build a business case take it to a bank or family and friends and see how many investors I could get

If it's for a relocation or similar - sell up any non essential assets (slowly - get the best price fo them), get a second job, live like a hermit and take in lodgers.

If you can manage debt on your credit card (i.e. pay it off in full every month - living interest free) then do it. If not - then cut it up and live on cash only. Restrict how much you give yourself every week!

Collect fly buys, buy high demand stuff and convert that to cash on Trademe. Stop drinking, take public transport and save on insurance

[Morcs]

Ill lend you the money. providing It gets repayed quickly plus 25% interest .:drool:

[jrandom]

who buys a kilo of pot? isnt it still sold in imperial measure?

I wouldn't know anything about that.

[R6_kid]

It's to do my Commerical Pilots Licence in Australia, and all going well, ending up flying Business Jets for Mick Doohan.

Moving to Aussie is on the cards, I have three contacts to send my CV to in order to earn the money i'd get in the mines, but in an office at the mine - 'work smarter not harder' as someone has already said.

My current thoughts are that if all goes well in Aussie and I get a job soon, paying what i've been getting told I could earn, then i'm thinking I could save at least 25% in 6 months, loan the rest from the bank/bank of dad.

The thing is that i need to have money to pay for accomodation while i'm doing the course (doesnt leave a lot of time to work), and assuming I take a loan, then im probably going to need to have savings to cover payments on that while im studying and not able to work/earning very little working in the weekends.

I could of course do my flying in NZ on a student loan, but I'd be left with the same loan, interest free as long as I remain in NZ, but only able to earn half what i'd get in Australia, and thats if im lucky.

[jrandom]

I could of course do my flying in NZ on a student loan, but I'd be left with the same loan, interest free as long as I remain in NZ, but only able to earn half what i'd get in Australia, and thats if im lucky.

That's what I'd do. Interest free is interest free. It's free money.

And surely the qualification here is as good as it is over there, and once you have it you can earn a very decent income and pay off your student loan without much hassle?

Who cares what you earn before you qualify? You'll earn far more afterwards. Better to start your study immediately.

I'm not quite sure why you seem so motivated to do it the hard way.

[Dakara]

It's to do my Commerical Pilots Licence in Australia, and all going well, ending up flying Business Jets for Mick Doohan.

Moving to Aussie is on the cards, I have three contacts to send my CV to in order to earn the money i'd get in the mines, but in an office at the mine - 'work smarter not harder' as someone has already said.

My current thoughts are that if all goes well in Aussie and I get a job soon, paying what i've been getting told I could earn, then i'm thinking I could save at least 25% in 6 months, loan the rest from the bank/bank of dad.

The thing is that i need to have money to pay for accomodation while i'm doing the course (doesnt leave a lot of time to work), and assuming I take a loan, then im probably going to need to have savings to cover payments on that while im studying and not able to work/earning very little working in the weekends.

I could of course do my flying in NZ on a student loan, but I'd be left with the same loan, interest free as long as I remain in NZ, but only able to earn half what i'd get in Australia, and thats if im lucky.

That's a hefty price for a CPL! Mine took about $40k... Then MEIR was maybe another $20k max, and I trained at chargemore flying school. (course that was 7 years ago)

I reckon ya do it here then convert to Aussie. Seems NZ is fairly cheap to train compared to the rest of the world. $170/hr for a C152 at Airline flying club where I work... but I'm grounded and in plaster at the moment :doh:

[Mully]

Whore yourself out to 920 fat chicks for $100 each,

Or 92 reaaaaaaly fat chicks for $1000 each.

What? Fat chicks need love too. They just gotta pay.

(Copyright Glen Quagmire, Family Guy)

In all seriousness, good luck. I would love to do my pilots licence.

I'd get the loan, do it here and pay it off fast when you go.

[Swoop]

Do it on the "free money" loan and then fit "secret" tanks in the wing to import hard drugs in. Easy!:whistle:

[Winter]

Move to Western Australia and work over there doing something. Live in the smallest / cheapest place you can find and don't have a social life for the year.

Big dollars can be earned doing normal jobs in abnormal conditions.

[Dave-]

Move to Aussie and work in the mines

Sell assets, buy house, hope the equity increases

x2

unfortunately making that much money in such a time is not easy, otherwise we'd all do it....

[Boob Johnson]

That's what I'd do. Interest free is interest free. It's free money.

And surely the qualification here is as good as it is over there, and once you have it you can earn a very decent income and pay off your student loan without much hassle?

Who cares what you earn before you qualify? You'll earn far more afterwards. Better to start your study immediately.

I'm not quite sure why you seem so motivated to do it the hard way.
Damn straight!

FREE money??? Hello?

[jrandom]

Damn straight!

FREE money??? Hello?

See, even KB's financial guru agrees.

:laugh:

Here's some thoughts fo' tha G-unit to ponder.

Option 1

Year 1: Try to save $90K. If you can. Big 'if'.

Year 2: Spend that $90K in Oz on getting a pilot's licence.

Beginning of Year 3: You're a debt-free qualified pilot.

Option 2

Year 1: Get pilot's licence in NZ with interest-free student loan.

Beginning of Year 2: You owe $90K on a cheaper-than-a-mortgage interest rate and are a qualified pilot.

Frankly, I like option 2 way better. Zero risk, jump-starts your career.

[R6_kid]

That's a hefty price for a CPL! Mine took about $40k... Then MEIR was maybe another $20k max, and I trained at chargemore flying school. (course that was 7 years ago)

I reckon ya do it here then convert to Aussie. Seems NZ is fairly cheap to train compared to the rest of the world. $170/hr for a C152 at Airline flying club where I work... but I'm grounded and in plaster at the moment :doh:

How much are you earning/how many hours are you flying a week?

This was for a guaranteed job at the end of 260 odd hours, starting pay of around $70k...

Another institution was offering $92k Australian for a CPL + MEIR and a job at the end of it earning $55k if you get in with Macair/Pelair, or less if you end up doing commuter/sight seeing for 'seaair' on a C208.

$92k is what I was told to budget for, the lower value being around $84k. What makes this particular course different is that twin time is higher than usual, there is a lot of ILS and instrument flying done on the course, multi time is done in the Baron and Cessna 402, it also includes basic gas turbine and a rating on a Cessna Citation - then a job flying a Citation at the end, earning around $70-75k start rate. All training up to CPL level is down with no more than 4:1 student to instructor ration. It's $71k for the Aussie CPL with the twin time + MEIR, and then another 12k-20k for the Citation rating etc which gets you the job at the end of it.

Compare this with an $80k+ student loan (some of my friends are already over the 100k mark and yet to get a job), with the off chance of getting a job at eagle air/great barrier airlines (if i'm lucky), or earning $20-30k a year as an instructor for a few years until I can get a job that will actually pay the bills without needing secondary income. Correct me if i'm wrong but instructors in New Zealand don't get paid too much?

[tri boy]

More money to be made behind the controls of one of BHP/Hammersley Iron ore trains.
No annoying passengers, great scenery trundling through the Pilbara, and no chance of falling out of the sky/being hijacked/getting aid's from one of the cabin crew.
Flying, ppfftt, it's for the birds.:rolleyes:

[mark247]

Join the airforce, they pay you to become a pilot from scratch if you are good enough.

Or, buy a share ( one 16th or something ) in a plane and learn to fly on the cheap, get private licence, then join airforce and fly twin engine aircraft.. get your twin engine time up, then the airlines will love you.

[mark247]

More money to be made behind the controls of one of BHP/Hammersley Iron ore trains.
No annoying passengers, great scenery trundling through the Pilbara, and no chance of falling out of the sky/being hijacked/getting aid's from one of the cabin crew.
Flying, ppfftt, it's for the birds.:rolleyes:

Can you get paid $250,000 a year doing that? That's around what a experienced top airline pilot gets, possibly even more with some airlines

[tri boy]

Can you get paid $250,000 a year doing that? That's around what a experienced top airline pilot gets, possibly even more with some airlines
Yep. 10yrs ago they were earning $160k for 4days on, n 2 off. Taxi would pick them up for work, food, o/night accom (if required) etc all payed by the company.
Most of NZ's decent loco drivers pissed off to Aus in the 70's, and now the boom is bigger than ever.

$250,000 will get a big mining company 1 1/2 industrial electricians. Small change.

[R6_kid]

Join the airforce, they pay you to become a pilot from scratch if you are good enough.

Or, buy a share ( one 16th or something ) in a plane and learn to fly on the cheap, get private licence, then join airforce and fly twin engine aircraft.. get your twin engine time up, then the airlines will love you.

Considered this option, and have been down that road. Ten year tie in, and not flying for all of those 10 years kind of put me off. Also, military flying doesn't always count out in the real world - infact some airlines dont even recognise it. And just so you know, the more private hours you have, the less likely the Air Force is to take you on.

Further more, my friend is currently in the Air Force and is now on operational conversion to the C-130, he earns what I earn now, and said he wishes he'd just taken the Civie route.

I'd prefer to do my training through a school with ties to airlines, its more professional and provides a structured environment to learn in. I certainly don't want to do pay as you go - a friend of mine is doing it this way and is only now at PPL after nearly two years.

[Patch]

Wouldn't waste ya time with our little dork force, just piss off to Aussie - bigger country more opportunities etc etc.

NZ is fast becoming one big tourist destination . . . if you can afford to "live" here (other than exist)

[Dakara]

How much are you earning/how many hours are you flying a week?

This was for a guaranteed job at the end of 260 odd hours, starting pay of around $70k...

Another institution was offering $92k Australian for a CPL + MEIR and a job at the end of it earning $55k if you get in with Macair/Pelair, or less if you end up doing commuter/sight seeing for 'seaair' on a C208.

$92k is what I was told to budget for, the lower value being around $84k. What makes this particular course different is that twin time is higher than usual, there is a lot of ILS and instrument flying done on the course, multi time is done in the Baron and Cessna 402, it also includes basic gas turbine and a rating on a Cessna Citation - then a job flying a Citation at the end, earning around $70-75k start rate. All training up to CPL level is down with no more than 4:1 student to instructor ration. It's $71k for the Aussie CPL with the twin time + MEIR, and then another 12k-20k for the Citation rating etc which gets you the job at the end of it.

Compare this with an $80k+ student loan (some of my friends are already over the 100k mark and yet to get a job), with the off chance of getting a job at eagle air/great barrier airlines (if i'm lucky), or earning $20-30k a year as an instructor for a few years until I can get a job that will actually pay the bills without needing secondary income. Correct me if i'm wrong but instructors in New Zealand don't get paid too much?

Yea I earn stuff all, but that's because I'm only doing it part-time on weekends. I earn $20 per flying hour and get about 6 hours a week. Was offered $25 an hour in Thames but the commute would cost me too much.

I've been in the Aviation Industry here for 7 years now (casually) and will jump in full-time if/when I get offered an Airline job (have one on the cards, starting in October). One thing I've learnt is if an offer sounds too good to be true... it probably is. Those salaries you've quoted most Pilots don't see until they're 3rd job after climbing the ladder (i.e. Instructor - Eagle - AirNZ). I know 2 companies here, Airwork and Airfreight who pay close to that from day 1 as it's mostly night flying, but you still need over 1000 hours (atleast) to be considered.

A mate of mine, went to Oz on the notion that after completing a course he'd be flying jets and paid heaps to do so, but after his CPL spent 4 years instructing (didn't read the fine print). So I'd be very careful about comitting that amount of money with the gaurentee of a Citation job after 260 hours... if that were the case, every pilot and his dog would apply!! Shit I know Air Nelson Captains and Air NZ first officers who'd be attracted by those salaries... and so if they could attract Airline pilots with those numbers, why would they hire a fresh CPL?

I'm not bagging your idea, if it works out for you then great!! But I'd be very careful and do a heap of research before commiting any money. Have you heard of CTC Aviation here in Hamilton? Last I heard, they're gaurenteeing people who do their course will go straight to Eagle with no interview... funny thing is, I spoke to Eagle and they said "No, we never agreed to that, we ran a trial with 4 of their instructors and 1 of them failed the inital check to line. so no, we don't have an arangement with them". So places make a whole lot of promises to get you in, but often they're empty. Also, never pay the whole amount upfront as a few places have gone under, taking all their students money with them!! Just like the finance companies...

Sorry it's long winded and hope it makes sense... I'm typing with my left hand :rolleyes:

[imdying]

Sorry it's long winded and hope it makes sense... I'm typing with my left hand :rolleyes:

Hopefully not flying with the right! :lol:

[avgas]

hate to say it but unless you have skills of some sort getting 90K in 6 months in pretty much near impossible.
Mate is working in perth right now, real moron - but he works hard and long (16 hour shifts, 5 day weeks). He's on 70K+car. He started on 50K+car.
Why not sit pilot license here and pay it back interest free? a few people i know have done that, one has now packed up after finishing and gone to India to find work, comes back here every 6 months so no interest on the loan

[R6_kid]

Have you heard of CTC Aviation here in Hamilton? Last I heard, they're gaurenteeing people who do their course will go straight to Eagle with no interview

Yep, I sent them an email last week and was told to call them tomorrow some time to arrange to go down and check it out. I have read that two pilots on the most recent CTC course have secured jobs at Eagle, one of them is apparently 19yo and had only done 180hr TT - so yet to finish CPL even. I think the level that these schools are training to is slightly above par compared to places like ardmore and christchurch.

Cadetships are where it's at. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy who runs the outfit i'm interested in. The catch is that the school does the training and type ratings on the Citation for the corporate charter airline as it is, so they train you to that level from the very start, and you only get the seat if you make the grade, which is higher than just passing to get your CPL + MEIR quals.


Never pay the whole amount upfront as a few places have gone under, taking all their students money with them!! Just like the finance companies...

Don't intend to, the course in Australia needs to be paid 20% at a time, with the next lot going in before the previous amount is used up. Seems fair enough.


hate to say it but unless you have skills of some sort getting 90K in 6 months in pretty much near impossible.

It's looking more like i'll work my ass off doing mine related computer work in Aussie, saving as much as I can and then getting a bank loan to make up the rest (probably gaurantored by my father)

[DMNTD]

...that have no legal implications.

Oh...never mind :doh:

[CookMySock]

I'd go to aussie. And email the bugger I owed the 92k to and tell him to sing for it..

DB

[Dakara]

Yep, I sent them an email last week and was told to call them tomorrow some time to arrange to go down and check it out. I have read that two pilots on the most recent CTC course have secured jobs at Eagle, one of them is apparently 19yo and had only done 180hr TT - so yet to finish CPL even. I think the level that these schools are training to is slightly above par compared to places like ardmore and christchurch.

I'd be very careful believing that... I know half the pilots at Eagle (probably not half, but quite a lot of them!!) the lowest hour pilot they've taken to date had about 600TT half of which was Multi. I have over 100 multi, and when I asked the powers that be at Eagle if I did the CTC Airline course would I get a job with my experience (as I'd been told the same as you) and they said probably not...

To put things into perspective, a pilot going to Eagle with nothing more than a CPL and MEIR could never get a command as they wouldn't meet the ATPL requirements flying as a co.

Long story short, CTC is full of shit, they offered me an interview as an instructor and I told em where to go. Word is they're struggling at the moment, and they're current batch of pilots is about 800 hours behind schedule... i.e. dudes with 400 hour CPL's. No one with any sense wants to work for them, they tried to pinch my current CFI and he told them to piss off, so all they're instructors are CTC students, none of which have any solid "Aviation" experience.

Remember, Airlines want people who can fly not just manage an Autopilot which is what CTC teaches... Basically they're developing a reputation as the next "Massey" which aint a good one. While some of them do go to Eagle, most other Airlines wont touch they're pilots. So CTC definitely doesn't train to a higher standard. They like to think they do, but they don't. At Aeroclubs, or even Ardmore flying school, they teach you how to fly. Who cares that some CTC cadet can programme an Autopilot, if Eagle don't take him, no one else will cos hed jump into a plane and ask where the "On" switch is. Teaching someone to fly an Airliner from day 1 is like teaching someone to surf before they can swim. Sure it's possible, but if he falls of the board he's fucked.


Cadetships are where it's at. I'm waiting to hear back from the guy who runs the outfit i'm interested in. The catch is that the school does the training and type ratings on the Citation for the corporate charter airline as it is, so they train you to that level from the very start, and you only get the seat if you make the grade, which is higher than just passing to get your CPL + MEIR quals.

If it is as you say then go for it!! Just don't rush in blind and read the fine print :rolleyes: The hidden catch might be that all your experience will be from the Right hand seat only logging Co pilot time, never giving the experience required for an ATPL and a command. The requirements in NZ for an ATPL are as such that you need to instruct or fly charters for a few years to get the command and night time required... I imagine Oz is the same.



Don't intend to, the course in Australia needs to be paid 20% at a time, with the next lot going in before the previous amount is used up. Seems fair enough.

It's looking more like i'll work my ass off doing mine related computer work in Aussie, saving as much as I can and then getting a bank loan to make up the rest (probably gaurantored by my father)

That's a good plan, pay as you go is best as you can pay it as you earn it, and if something happens you don't need to try and get your $$ back.

So I suppose, to sum everything up...

Back when I started, if I saw this opportunity you couldn't have got me to Oz fast enough! It sounds amazing!!

Knowing what I know now? I'm glad I've done it the hard way...

[Swoop]

multi time is done in the Baron and Cessna 402,
You'll enjoy the 402. They are nice and sensitive and give a "high performance" feel to the controls. You have to keep thinking way ahead of the plane. I enjoyed flying one of them.

Long story short, CTC is full of shit
Marty has just started at CTC, in fact it is today!
I hear that CTC attracts students from UK with some sort of "guaranteed job, RH seat for Easyjet" or something.
There are also a lot of Indian students there.

[R6_kid]

Marty has just started at CTC, in fact it is today!
I hear that CTC attracts students from UK with some sort of "guaranteed job, RH seat for Easyjet" or something.
There are also a lot of Indian students there.


Haha, good old Marty. I might hit him up before I head down, might make it so that I can take the bike instead of the car.

The course you speak of is the $150,000 course they start in England, then move down to NZ for a large part of the syllabus before going back to the UK to do the 737 sim work. After 18mths you go into the right hand seat of an A320/737, but before you start you already know which air line you will end up with.

Right now im biding my time. I originally wanted to be doing my flying by March this year, but with the way things are going in the industry it seems to be worth taking my time and seeing what comes of the cadetships offered in Australia, and the pilots that go down that route. If I was to listen to what is said on PPruNe I probably wouldnt even bother being a pilot!

[Pussy]

A good way to get yourself prepared for third level airlines is to secure a job with Keith McKenzie at Mountain Air. He's widely recognized for producing pilots with a solid foundation, and is very professional.
A new CPL and MEIR is really just a licence to learn the trade. You won't have companies falling over themselves to employ you.
And in aviation.... never never never let your confidence exceed your competence... never

[Dakara]

Marty has just started at CTC, in fact it is today!
I hear that CTC attracts students from UK with some sort of "guaranteed job, RH seat for Easyjet" or something.
There are also a lot of Indian students there.

CTC is a UK company, if you get in over there and pay the HUGE fees then you can make a very good career. However, I'm very nervous of guys who straight from flight school sim to a jet. We're loosing a lot of experience up front.

CTC here however, is not looked upon very well by the Airlines (well the ones I've spoken to anyway) as they prefer Pilots with real world experience. Eagle is the exception, as 99% of pilots with GA / ATTO time aim for Air Nelson so Eagle grabs up the Multi Instructors from flying schools.

Almost every organization in the country who have had someone at some stage end up in an Airline somewhere brag about it to attract more students. Just because some CTC guys went to Eagle doesn't mean everyone will. And the guys who don't will have a tough time getting a GA job.

Over in Indonesia there's and Accident, Incident or near miss every 7 minutes (or something absurd like that) reason being, many countries send people here to train, then they go home straight into a jet. Problem is, many of these guys are absolutely clueless. I trained with a guy who when doing his MEIR did an hour of circuits and forgot the gear everytime... passed his CPL after 500 hours, and his MEIR at 700, (after 3 attempts) went home, straight into a 737. Scary thought.



Right now im biding my time. I originally wanted to be doing my flying by March this year, but with the way things are going in the industry it seems to be worth taking my time and seeing what comes of the cadetships offered in Australia, and the pilots that go down that route. If I was to listen to what is said on PPruNe I probably wouldnt even bother being a pilot!

Honestly dude, if it's on the level then go for it. Air NZ is whispering very quietly about a Cadetship as well. They are becoming more and more common, just make sure there isn't any catches. Also, given the salaries they're offering and birds you get to fly I imagine they accept about .01% of applicants so would pay to have a plan B just incase.

[Dakara]

A good way to get yourself prepared for third level airlines is to secure a job with Keith McKenzie at Mountain Air. He's widely recognized for producing pilots with a solid foundation, and is very professional.
A new CPL and MEIR is really just a licence to learn the trade. You won't have companies falling over themselves to employ you.
And in aviation.... never never never let your confidence exceed your competence... never

God I hope your joking....

It's true, the MA boys do well. But I wouldn't wish that fate upon my worst enemy. I know a lot of guys who have served and are some who are still... however, I wouldn't be surprised if they go bust soon.

[doc]

Move to Aussie and work in the mines
Sensible and easiest way.

[Qkkid]

Would rather stick to things that are likely to happen and that have no legal implications.

:eek:You could become a jiggilo and sell ya body $150 per hour:niceone:
Alot of women pay for it these days Gareth. Less hassle for them.
Gives ya time to practice that perfect orgasm:whistle:
Only downside would be Ya get sick of pussy:msn-wink:

[Pussy]

God I hope your joking....

It's true, the MA boys do well. But I wouldn't wish that fate upon my worst enemy. I know a lot of guys who have served and are some who are still... however, I wouldn't be surprised if they go bust soon.

No, not joking at all. Keith gets pilots ready for the REAL world, with some discipline and professionalism.
I have been a CPL for a year or two, and have one or two hours under my belt, and have seen guys/girls do VERY well with the grounding they have had from Mountain Air.
I rightly or wrongly chose the career path I have travelled, but if I had wanted to go airline flying, I would have chosen very carefully the right path to follow.
MA are very unlikely to go down the tubes soon. It has very sound management.
I applaud people wanting to enter the industry... they just have to realise that the big gold/ flash jobs don't just happen. Qualifications are nothing without experience

[Dakara]

No, not joking at all. Keith gets pilots ready for the REAL world, with some discipline and professionalism.
I have been a CPL for a year or two, and have one or two hours under my belt, and have seen guys/girls do VERY well with the grounding they have had from Mountain Air.
I rightly or wrongly chose the career path I have travelled, but if I had wanted to go airline flying, I would have chosen very carefully the right path to follow.
MA are very unlikely to go down the tubes soon. It has very sound management.
I applaud people wanting to enter the industry... they just have to realise that the big gold/ flash jobs don't just happen. Qualifications are nothing without experience

Yea, I do agree with you. MA is a great grounding for moving into the Airlines, I know a lot of guys who have gone through there and done well, but it was more to do with the fact they were flying Twin Engine Air transport opposed to any influence Keith had on them... infact he's hardly ever there (I'm referring to the Auckland base where I too spent some time)

MA has sold the Chetau base, and after the recent court case with GBA have re-branded to "Fly My Sky" however, recently I'm hearing they're not doing so well and are starting to struggle, cancelling flights and grounded planes. Most of my mates have all jumped ship now.

[marty]

I'd be very careful believing that... I know half the pilots at Eagle (probably not half, but quite a lot of them!!) the lowest hour pilot they've taken to date had about 600TT half of which was Multi. I have over 100 multi, and when I asked the powers that be at Eagle if I did the CTC Airline course would I get a job with my experience (as I'd been told the same as you) and they said probably not...
...

you need to update your info stream - they left for canada on the weekend. 2 cadets, fresh cpl/meir with about 220hrs.

eagle have also recently took someone with 30hrs multi (basic meir) but with 1500TT. he had done a MCC in the UK.

CTC do not have a lot of home grown instructors - they don't have the room to put classes through, so they offer fixed base salaries (instead of flight-only pay) and attract instructors from elsewhere. the Pilapt and selection process sorts out a few of the tryhards. granted the pay is not huge, but it's the best paid entry level c-cat job in the country.

some of the A-cats are getting better $$ than they were as captains at Eagle/Nelson.

[Dakara]

you need to update your info stream - they left for canada on the weekend. 2 cadets, fresh cpl/meir with about 220hrs.

eagle have also recently took someone with 30hrs multi (basic meir) but with 1500TT. he had done a MCC in the UK.

CTC do not have a lot of home grown instructors - they don't have the room to put classes through, so they offer fixed base salaries (instead of flight-only pay) and attract instructors from elsewhere. the Pilapt and selection process sorts out a few of the tryhards. granted the pay is not huge, but it's the best paid entry level c-cat job in the country.

some of the A-cats are getting better $$ than they were as captains at Eagle/Nelson.


I Admit, it was 6 months ago when I was sniffing round CTC and Eagle and got that 600 figure. Although I'm still quite shocked to hear people with 220 hours will be on the 1900's.... I suppose they make up the top 1%, so like I said before, just because 1 or 2 do, doesn't mean everyone will... and I'd love to know how they're going to get the requirements for an ATPL flight test... but I suppose the industry is changing.

Yea guys with 1500tt and a basic instrument rating have been getting in for a while now. The training captains tell me the "Official minimum" is supposed to be 700 total and 100 multi, but those numbers seem to be only guidelines now. One of them has been hounding me to send my CV in, but I wanna get some more GA time and open more doors.

As for CTC's Pilapt, I found it to be a joke really. Some aspects were more intensive than what I went through for the Airforce and others were just too... odd... As for the industries attitude towards them, I suppose it will change soon, most of the the guys I've spoken to who are against CTC are all reaching retirement, and like myself believe a pilot should have some proper experience before jumping into an Airliner. It just makes me nervous to think how much experience people miss out on if they don't do some real flying post CPL. I'm talking loading a bunch of mates into a PA-28 and heading to the South Island for a few weeks, or flying tourists to Great Barrier and round corromandel. Some of the most important things about flying I picked up after I got my license, same could be said by most people who ride/drive. It's that experience from going out and doing it your on your own that separates people from the text book jockies.

[peasea]

Yep. 10yrs ago they were earning $160k for 4days on, n 2 off. Taxi would pick them up for work, food, o/night accom (if required) etc all payed by the company.
Most of NZ's decent loco drivers pissed off to Aus in the 70's, and now the boom is bigger than ever.

$250,000 will get a big mining company 1 1/2 industrial electricians. Small change.

Yup, my sister's ex earned big bucks over there driving trains, even passenger units. He reckoned the train did 90% of the work for you! My sister dumped him tho, turns out he was a bad fuck.

[slowpoke]

Moving to Aussie is on the cards, I have three contacts to send my CV to in order to earn the money i'd get in the mines, but in an office at the mine - 'work smarter not harder' as someone has already said.


Sounds like computing is your forte...but if you wanna maximise your income you'll have to get out of the air-conditioning and get your hands dirty. Things may have changed but none of our IT/office staff in the mines made what the trades or underground staff could. A FIFO job is the go as rent in places like Karratha/Port Headland etc are mind boggling......and forget having a love life, although that's probably a good thing if you are trying to save money.

I gotta tell ya though I don't understand this pilot thang. I fly Wellington/Sydney (3 hours), Sydney/Darwin (4 1/2 hours) via commercial flight, then Darwin/Dili (1 1/2 hours) via charter Brasilia, then Superpuma chopper out to my platform (1 1/2 hours) and return every three or 6 weeks, not to mention training courses in Perth a few times a year, and I'm sick to fuggin' death of flyin'. Each to their own but it would drive me fuggin' mental.....

[Subike]

Move in with parents, pay them nothing..

this sounds like the average under 25 years old in the New Zealand social climate of today. The new "I want it free" crowd.
mummy mummy I want I want!! Waaaahhhhh!! bleat bleat Waaahhh!

[R6_kid]

this sounds like the average under 25 years old in the New Zealand social climate of today. The new "I want it free" crowd.
mummy mummy I want I want!! Waaaahhhhh!! bleat bleat Waaahhh!

but i do my own washing :mellow:

[marty]

I Admit, it was 6 months ago when I was sniffing round CTC and Eagle and got that 600 figure. Although I'm still quite shocked to hear people with 220 hours will be on the 1900's.... I suppose they make up the top 1%, so like I said before, just because 1 or 2 do, doesn't mean everyone will... and I'd love to know how they're going to get the requirements for an ATPL flight test... but I suppose the industry is changing.

Yea guys with 1500tt and a basic instrument rating have been getting in for a while now. The training captains tell me the "Official minimum" is supposed to be 700 total and 100 multi, but those numbers seem to be only guidelines now. One of them has been hounding me to send my CV in, but I wanna get some more GA time and open more doors.

As for CTC's Pilapt, I found it to be a joke really. Some aspects were more intensive than what I went through for the Airforce and others were just too... odd... As for the industries attitude towards them, I suppose it will change soon, most of the the guys I've spoken to who are against CTC are all reaching retirement, and like myself believe a pilot should have some proper experience before jumping into an Airliner. It just makes me nervous to think how much experience people miss out on if they don't do some real flying post CPL. I'm talking loading a bunch of mates into a PA-28 and heading to the South Island for a few weeks, or flying tourists to Great Barrier and round corromandel. Some of the most important things about flying I picked up after I got my license, same could be said by most people who ride/drive. It's that experience from going out and doing it your on your own that separates people from the text book jockies.

your arguement is typical from someone that hasn't got in to the airline with low time. did you know that every FO, and every captain currently working at Easyjet, has been trained by CTC?

if the CP of AirNZ can see the value in training people to fly jets from day 1, surely there is something in it?

Air NZ is has also recently placed low-time CPL/MEIR 'cadets' at CTC for the CRM course, with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstars in a 2-crew environment. they will go to 2nd officer postions on the 777/747, on a training salary, then back to eag as an FO.

there is still plenty happening out there - although maybe you were told to go away from eag and ctc for a reason? why did you go to the selection process at the airforce and ctc then not take them up on their offer?

and for flying upwards of 40000hrs/year at ctc, they have a pretty good safety record.

[Swoop]

Have (literally) just finshed having a chat with a FO from wings of the nation.
They are crying out for FO's. Desperate shortage, etc ,etc.

[Dakara]

your arguement is typical from someone that hasn't got in to the airline with low time.

Well if you want to attack me personally I suppose that's your choice... but you make a lot of assumptions.


did you know that every FO, and every captain currently working at Easyjet, has been trained by CTC?

Like I care about Easyjet. My whole point is pinholing training for a specific Airline (be it Easyjet or Eagle) has the downside that not all candidates will be successful with said airline, and no one else will touch them. Yes, it appears Eagle is coming round to CTC, but what of the guys there who Eagle don't take? Do you think a 135 operation wants to take someone who's been trained to fly a Jet? Air Nelson is an example who love the 135 pilots, especially from GBA and Mountain Air as they have operational experience


if the CP of AirNZ can see the value in training people to fly jets from day 1, surely there is something in it?

Air NZ is has also recently placed low-time CPL/MEIR 'cadets' at CTC for the CRM course, with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstars in a 2-crew environment. they will go to 2nd officer postions on the 777/747, on a training salary, then back to eag as an FO.

Yes, I've have heard Captain Dave Morgan's opinion on it, and Air NZ's plan to start their own Cadetship. Once again, I wonder if this is another version of the "Multi-crew License" where you spend your career as a Co. No idea, will see where it goes.



there is still plenty happening out there - although maybe you were told to go away from eag and ctc for a reason? why did you go to the selection process at the airforce and ctc then not take them up on their offer?

and for flying upwards of 40000hrs/year at ctc, they have a pretty good safety record.



Eagle/CTC never told me to get lost, thats your assumption. I phoned CTC about an APC course they offer when I was considering my next move, and was told for a mere $15k I could gaurentee myself a job at Eagle... so I phone Eagle and they say "Umm, no we never said that, we told them we'd consider it but have decided against it"(remember this was atleast 6 months ago). I phoned CTC back saying Eagle disagreed with their statement and was told "Yea, we're not sure whats happening with them so are in negotiation with Air Nelson and Mt Cook" which I thought strange as while someone with 200 hours could fly for eagle under part 125, they can't operate under Part 121 even as a co.

So my problem with CTC was that they were making promises to me not backed up by the Airlines. I don't care about CTC in the UK, I know how succesful they are there, all I care about is here. And at the time of making these enquiries I wasn't elligable for anything outside Part 135 as I only had about 60 hours twin.

As for the pilapt. I went through the Airforce selection back when labour scrapped the Skyhawks and the Airforce didn't need anymore pilots (about 10 years ago?). Never went through with the once at CTC as I decided I didn't wanna work for them. But I know a few of there former instructors who clued me up on the tests.

Honestly though each to his own. I'm against CTC because of my experience with them. Personally, the idea of 200 hour pilots flying Airliners is one i'm afraid of as a lot of experience is lost. But as you say, things are changing. Why am I not in an Airline yet? Because right now I have limited choices, some of which would bond me for X years. So I'm happy to kick it in 119, 142 and 135 ops for another year or 2 and open as many doors as I can. A good mate of mine left a GA job with 3000 hours, over 2000 of which were Multi ATO time, and the worlds his Oyster. He's now flying Jets when others who appeared "Ahead of him" are still serving out their bonds.

Anyway, this has really gone OT, I'm sure CTC will work out for you, and you'll find yourself in a 1900. That route just wasn't for me... Each to his own I guess.

[jrandom]

Jesus H. Christ, and I thought IT was full of acronyms and jargon.

[imdying]

with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstarsOk, wtf is that?? Whatever it is I wanna job flying it... imdying 'Deathstar pilot' :D

[Pussy]

Jesus H. Christ, and I thought IT was full of acronyms and jargon.

Aviation is full of TLAs (three letter abbreviations)

[Dakara]

Ok, wtf is that?? Whatever it is I wanna job flying it... imdying 'Deathstar pilot' :D

DA42 Twinstar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond_DA42

[jrandom]

DA42 Twinstar

"Gearboxes must be replaced every 300 hours, which means that gearbox replacement, amortized over the life of the engine, amounts to over 100 dollars per hour of operation."

What the hell? Do they cut the gears from wedges of camembert?

[R6_kid]

"Gearboxes must be replaced every 300 hours, which means that gearbox replacement, amortized over the life of the engine, amounts to over 100 dollars per hour of operation."

What the hell? Do they cut the gears from wedges of camembert?

I dont think the gearbox on my R6 lasted that long!? :crazy:

[Dakara]

"Gearboxes must be replaced every 300 hours, which means that gearbox replacement, amortized over the life of the engine, amounts to over 100 dollars per hour of operation."

What the hell? Do they cut the gears from wedges of camembert?

In all honesty I know virtually nothing about them as I've never flown one. From a students point of view however they're great as they're cheap. Your average light training twin (BE76 Duchess is a common one) will cost a student about $440/hr whereas I've heard the Twinstar costs about $200/hr... which seems a bit odd given the gearbox cost.

But I'm hearing rumours about the engine manufacturer going bust and people not being able to get parts... just word of mouth stuff, but the gearbox replacement every 300 hours would be tricky if you cant get hold of one!! But in Aviation terms, they're a very young Aircraft. To put things into perspective, they were first certified in 2004. The piper Aztec, PA-23 250 which I fly was first developed in the 1950's, and the model I fly in the 1960's. While most Aztecs round the country are dead or dying the one I'm in is still going strong and is one of the most stable Aircraft I've flown. So the Twinstars are only at the start of their lives, and if they're popular enough to keep going, will work out the kinks over the years with new models.

[marty]

i'm not attacking you personally - i'm just well aware of the arguements. i actually work for the koru now, and an FO in a 1900 is probably not where i'll end up. i have all my atpls, and plenty of time, so i'm looking a bit further than that....

[jrandom]

I dont think the gearbox on my R6 lasted that long!? :crazy:

300 hours?

Even if you only used the bike on the open road and averaged 100kph, that's only 30,000km on the clock.

Obviously it's not impossible for sufficient abuse and clumsy inputs to destroy a brand new sportbike gearbox in that space of time, but I'd hardly expect aeroplane mechanicals to be that fragile.

I guess I'm wrong...

[R6_kid]

300 hours?

Even if you only used the bike on the open road and averaged 100kph, that's only 30,000km on the clock.

Obviously it's not impossible for sufficient abuse and clumsy inputs to destroy a brand new sportbike gearbox in that space of time, but I'd hardly expect aeroplane mechanicals to be that fragile.

I guess I'm wrong...

Heh, it managed a tad over 30,000km of me owning it before the gearbox popped, but that particulat model had a known weakness in that department - so it wasnt all my fault!

Aircraft engines are generally run at set rpm's/loads and therefore give relatively reliable fuel consumption rates and forecast maintenance schedules are set up accordingly. However if you compare the maintenance schedule on an RNZAF CT-4E with that of a Cessna 182 you'll quickly see that 'thrashing' them requires a lot more maintenance and shortens the time that the aircraft spend in the air between full overhauls.

[marty]

probably one of the reasons Thierlet (gearbox manufacturer) has gone bust.

a deathstar with lycoming O360's (avgas engines) in it will cruise at over 200kts.

[Dakara]

i'm not attacking you personally - i'm just well aware of the arguements. i actually work for the koru now, and an FO in a 1900 is probably not where i'll end up. i have all my atpls, and plenty of time, so i'm looking a bit further than that....

All good mate. I'd say we're in similar situations just taking different routes. I've got the ATPL's and the Multi, just need to get the ATO time up as the places I'm looking at require previous ATO experience. But I should have a start round October flying twins under 135. Love GA flying, just wish I loved the salaries ;)


probably one of the reasons Thierlet (gearbox manufacturer) has gone bust.

a deathstar with lycoming O360's (avgas engines) in it will cruise at over 200kts.

Damn! The Aztruck wont get near that with IO-540's. Course she weights a fair bit more :whistle:

[HenryDorsetCase]

your arguement is typical from someone that hasn't got in to the airline with low time. did you know that every FO, and every captain currently working at Easyjet, has been trained by CTC?

if the CP of AirNZ can see the value in training people to fly jets from day 1, surely there is something in it?

Air NZ is has also recently placed low-time CPL/MEIR 'cadets' at CTC for the CRM course, with the emphasis on flying the sim and the deathstars in a 2-crew environment. they will go to 2nd officer postions on the 777/747, on a training salary, then back to eag as an FO.

there is still plenty happening out there - although maybe you were told to go away from eag and ctc for a reason? why did you go to the selection process at the airforce and ctc then not take them up on their offer?

and for flying upwards of 40000hrs/year at ctc, they have a pretty good safety record.


enough blather! where THE HELL do I sign up? I totally want to fly the DEATHSTAR!!!

[R6_kid]

www.ctcwings.co.nz

[imdying]

enough blather! where THE HELL do I sign up? I totally want to fly the DEATHSTAR!!!

See a few posts up for a link to said 'Deathstar'... it's not really what I had in mind :weep:

[R6_kid]

Just been to check out CTC Aviation in Hamilton, damn good setup, much better than what i've seen at Ardmore. Can't comment on the "Aviation Academy" at Christchurch, but CTC has very modern facilities, and seemed to be a very lively place.

All the aircraft are in tip-top shape which was nice to see after checking out some of the aircraft available at the local Aero Club. They have 172's and Robins with Analog gauges, as well as the Diamond aircraft with the G1000 Garmin GPS etc. The simulators are all certified and can count towards hours against certain licences/ratings, more to point two of them are exact replicas of the training aircraft, and a third is based on the Kingair B200 - so good to get some exposure to a turboprop environment.

Unfortunately I didnt get to go for fly as the crap weather from Auckland was closing in, but I was very pleased with the treatment I recieved and was left with no illusions as to how intense a course there will be.

The course I intend to do there if I get accepted is $72k NZD at current market rates (fuel etc) for 230 total hours, 20hrs of which is simulator time, and 35 is twin time (Seminole and Twinstar).

Looks like im going to be knuckling down for the next month or two to do some study before I apply, fingers crossed all going well i'll be able to start in February next year.

[jrandom]

Looks like im going to be knuckling down for the next month or two to do some study before I apply, fingers crossed all going well i'll be able to start in February next year.

Boggle! So, that's that then, no saving up and going to Oz, you're doing it in NZ right away like we suggested?

Onya mate.

:D

[R6_kid]

Boggle! So, that's that then, no saving up and going to Oz, you're doing it in NZ right away like we suggested?

Onya mate.

:D

May end up going to Aussie still, the course doesnt start until February, assuming I get in. If I can still get the work in Aussie I've been told I possibly could then it would put me in a better position come time to sit down and do 18mths of student life.

[marty]

meaningful employment out of ctc is more likely than out of an aussie school, unless you want to go outback. did you get my cell #? pm me yours if you want.

[R6_kid]

meaningful employment out of ctc is more likely than out of an aussie school, unless you want to go outback. did you get my cell #? pm me yours if you want.

yes but unfortunately I hadn't put it in my phone yet, I got rung up at 8.30am as I arrived at work to be told today was a good day to go down and to call back with a time. I even stopped in Cambridge on the way home and thought I should give you a call, but I couldnt get hold of your number!

[Socrates]

meaningful employment out of ctc is more likely than out of an aussie school, unless you want to go outback. did you get my cell #? pm me yours if you want.

Some of the best flying I did was out in the outback. If i was to go back to flying, I would consider the bush pilot gig again.

[hdus001]

As someone mentioned previously, check out the job prospects, do your homework, before you choose the course in Australia.

I am a part time student at one of the schools here (Aerospace aviation at Sydney), and from what i can see, well paid jobs are pretty hard to come by unless you have years and years of experience. Most work for several years as instructors at very average pay rates before an airline will even look at the resume.