The story of Tenzing the Super Tenere

[cooneyr]

Tenzing is the latest edition to the family. He is a 1991 Yamaha XTZ750 Super Tenere. He's a little battle scared and neglected but with a little bit of TLC hell be right as rain (hopefully). This is my attempt to get myself a ride that is twin cylinder, reasonable suspension, 21 inch front wheel, has some gravel/dirt capability, is comfortable touring and fits a biggish fuller and his missus on the back.

It all started when we went to the CCA in April this year and first laid eyes on what was Jezza's XTZ, now my little brothers, that is exacly the same year, colour and very similar kms. I'm mad keen on a KTM 9x0 but cant afford it and I'm not that keen on a BMW R GS so when I saw the XTZ and then after a bit of search found out about XRV Africa Twin's I though I'd better keep an eye out for one or the other.

Tenzing was cheep but was cheep for a reason. He is ridable and warrentable but he does need some work. I've got a list of things to do to get him in to reasonable shape for what I want to do. This list will probably grow but here goes

Handlebars (971 Renthals from old bike) - done
Handlebar grips and heaters (from old bike) - done
Moose bark busters (from old bike) - done
New Mirrors - done
Mitchelin Desert rear tyre - done
Pirelli Scorpion 486 front Tyre - done
Plastic weld up fairings and tail pieces so they are functional (not duct taped on - don't care about look too much) - not going to bother at this stage
Loose the front brake disc covers (supposedly can overheat the front brakes when braking hard lots) - done
Make some crash bars
Make cover for tail rack tool box - done
Fix clunk in rear suspension (supposedly worn lower shock bolt) - Done (new lower shock bolt was needed)
Get front suspension rebuilt with new springs and maybe racetec emulators - Oil and springs done, didnt bother with emulators at this stage.
New rear shock - New Wilbers on the back
Put in H4 55/65 watt plus 50 bulbs - Not going to bother at this stage. Twin headlights are a huge improvement over DR650. Would do +90 bulbs now anyway
Adjust/straighten leavers to suit me - done
Mount GPS - done
Headlights protection - done
Make a new speedo drive washer - done
Make bars for soft panniers

Tenzing supposedly does have a Dyno jet stage two carbie kit and a K&N filter and he does have a Zorst SSports exhaust that makes very nice noises (reasonably quite when idling and cruising but barks when given a handfull). The chain and sprockets are all in good condition and the motor seems to go well (not been for a very long ride yet).

Plan is to potter away with the aim of getting Tenzing fighting fit for summer.

Pictures of the beast below. I'll have to get a picture of Bro and my twin twins at some stage :D

Cheers R

[WRT]

The condition doesn't look too bad from the pics! Was expecting much worse after reading your post.

Congrats on the new toy!

[Peril]

Looks good.:niceone:
I found with my Tenere it was a bargin price,but ended up cost me a bit in little repairs here and little parts there and a lot of sweat and bad words when it doesn't start hot :)
It'd be nice to see more Yamahas out and about on our rides now too.

[cooneyr]

Looks good.:niceone:
I found with my Tenere it was a bargin price,but ended up cost me a bit in little repairs here and little parts there and a lot of sweat and bad words when it doesn't start hot :)
It'd be nice to see more Yamahas out and about on our rides now too.

Mine is going to cost quite a bit to do up since I'm looking at buying a new shock but it will still all up be a whole heap less than buying a KTM 9x0 or even a XRV.

I never had any problems starting your bike when hot - guess it helps when your over 6 foot :D

Cheers R

[Peril]

Mine is going to cost quite a bit to do up since I'm looking at buying a new shock but it will still all up be a whole heap less than buying a KTM 9x0 or even a XRV.

I never had any problems starting your bike when hot - guess it helps when your over 6 foot :D

Cheers R

Which reminds me,next time we go out I'll let you have a ride on it to see how it compared to a DR650.
The rear shock is going in on the 18th of August,so that'll make a huge improvement to it's handling.

[cooneyr]

Which reminds me,next time we go out I'll let you have a ride on it to see how it compared to a DR650.
The rear shock is going in on the 18th of August,so that'll make a huge improvement to it's handling.

Is that you letting me have ago so I can tell you how the XT600Z compares to the DR650 or so you can compare the XTZ750 to the XT600Z:shutup:

No worries :D

Cheers R

[Peril]

Nah,I'm happy to let you jump on the XT while I watch.I think anything over 600cc and more than 1 cylinder is getting a bit silly :crazy:

[Crisis management]

Great choice Ryan, looks like a nice bike. As a matter of interest how do they compare "ridability wise" to the DR, does it feel a lot heavier / more cumbersome?

[Transalper]

Tenzing is the latest edition to the family.......
....I've got a list of things to do to get him in to reasonable shape for what I want to do. This list will probably grow but here goes......

....Plan is to potter away with the aim of getting Tenzing fighting fit for summer....

:nono:homework first boyo! :lol:

[timg]

Congrats and welcome to the world of twins. :done:
So when are we going for a ride, huh?? :ride:
Cheers

[JATZ]

I think anything over 600cc and more than 1 cylinder is getting a bit silly :crazy:

You wash your mouth out Peril

Noice ride there cooney:niceone:

[cooneyr]

Great choice Ryan, looks like a nice bike. As a matter of interest how do they compare "ridability wise" to the DR, does it feel a lot heavier / more cumbersome?

I've ridden it all of 8 kms around town but I did ride my bro's bike (exactly the same with better suspension) for 120kms with wifey on back across the plains. While it seems to do the two up thing well I can really comment about 1 up blasting or off road or wiggly roads


:nono:homework first boyo! :lol:


Congrats and welcome to the world of twins. :done:
So when are we going for a ride, huh?? :ride:
Cheers

What TA said. Give me 5 weeks to get my masters finished then :scooter:

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Nice.

The 2-up-ability has got me interested as well.
The DR will do anything I ask - except for 2-up comfort.

[Peril]

You wash your mouth out Peril

Noice ride there cooney:niceone:

Ok,I'll change that to anything more than 1 cylinder.That better? ;)

[cooneyr]

Had a long lunch break today and managed to get a few things done. The bike is now ridable again (had the handle bars off) with the 971 bars, 30mm bar risers, progrip grips, grip heaters moose bark busters and new mirrors. I went to cut the end of the old throttle tube only to crack (old and brittle). Found that a WR450 throttle tube works with a couple of modifications.

Also made a lockable cover for the tail tool box out of some checker plate alloy.

Pics to come tomorrow.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Nice ride! :woohoo:

Interesting that as the pre-cursor to the more road-ified TDM850 that I had, this thing cures most of the TDM's ills, namely poor off-road prowess due to wheel & tyre choice.

I'm sure it will be a lot of fun :Punk:

[SDU]

Congrats on your new toy R! Hope you get it sorted to your specs in no time.

[cooneyr]

Nice ride! :woohoo:

Interesting that as the pre-cursor to the more road-ified TDM850 that I had, this thing cures most of the TDM's ills, namely poor off-road prowess due to wheel & tyre choice.

I'm sure it will be a lot of fun :Punk:

Here's hoping :D


Congrats on your new toy R! Hope you get it sorted to your specs in no time.

Thanks S. Being at home to study and having long lunch breaks while being bad for getting uni work done certainly helps with bike prep - just dont tell anybody :shutup:

Couple of pics of progress so far.

New lockable tail rack tool box lid
Tool box lid again
New bars, bar risers, grips, bark busters and mirrors with leavers adjusted to suit me (good thing the brake lever is span adjustable cause it was miles away from the bar)
Bars from the front side


Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Looks like it needs to get dirty...

[cooneyr]

Looks like it needs to get dirty...

Indeed - just need time to do it. Tyres should be turning up soon - don't really rate the slicky things, what ever they are, on it at the moment.

Cheers R

[426crasher]

Tenzing is the latest edition to the family. He is a 1991 Yamaha XTZ750 Super Tenere.

Hmmm... this takes me back a bit. I had a 91 model, bought it in 93 and sold it in 96, and it proved to be totaly reliable. Did a little bit off road with it but for my height and 76kg frame it was just to big. Took it around Europe twice whch turned out to show it's real strength... monster mile eating ability...Found mine to be a bit thirsty for a 750 twin but i certainly enjoyed my 50000kms with her. Never had an issue with this disc shrouds and the only uglys that i can remember was the sarter motors were a bit fragile and quite a few suffered from collapsed rear wheel bearings.
I'm quite eager to see one on the dirt again, possibly 2...
Good luck with the resto.

[cooneyr]

Hmmm... this takes me back a bit. I had a 91 model, bought it in 93 and sold it in 96, and it proved to be totaly reliable. Did a little bit off road with it but for my height and 76kg frame it was just to big. Took it around Europe twice whch turned out to show it's real strength... monster mile eating ability...Found mine to be a bit thirsty for a 750 twin but i certainly enjoyed my 50000kms with her. Never had an issue with this disc shrouds and the only uglys that i can remember was the sarter motors were a bit fragile and quite a few suffered from collapsed rear wheel bearings.
I'm quite eager to see one on the dirt again, possibly 2...
Good luck with the resto.

Cool now we know who to come and annoy if we need any advice :D

Fuel consumption seems to be a bit of a nemisis of these things. Sounds like it is mostly associated with worn needle jets (emulsion tubes) seeing that the carbies are down drafts i.e. gravity helps wear things rather fast. About $100nz for new nickel coated needle jets that supposedly last much much longer than the stock brass ones (which can die in as little as 10k kms).

El's bike is currently using about 10l per 120kms (12km/l) while taking it easy, which is shocking fuel consumption for a bike. I think the carbies will be coming out ASAP. Mine supposedly has had the needle jet replaced but I've not been on long enough ride to figure out the fuel consumption yet so cant be sure.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Ah... I have some experience with that problem on my Triumph.

The BST36's on the Triumph are legendarily bad, and one reason they swapped to Keihin in 1998. I have just tracked down a source of the replacement parts - that Triumph and Suzuki don't sell. They don't even show it as a separate part in their exploded diagrams. And Mikuni won't sell OEM carb parts to the public. So bad luck if you have a Mikuni-carbed Triumph or Suzuki GSX-R750/1100.

What are the carbs that are on Tenzing? Oh, look, they are the Mikuni BDST38's... You might be lucky, Yamaha might still sell them. They are listed on BikeBandit (http://www.bikebandit.com/) for the 1992 TDM, couldn't find the XTZ quickly. Part #21 in 'carburetor' is what you need.

What happens is the vacuum pulses shake the carb throttle valve (piston) back and forth. This uses the needle as a saw in the the needle jet (emulsion tube) which ovalises the orifice. So the bike runs horribly rich because the round (or less, if it is worn too) needle can no longer block the needle jet like it ought to, and nothing you can do will tune that out. Eventually the throttle valve guide (aka piston guide or plastic throttle body insert) will wear significantly, rapidly crapping out any replacement needles and jets.

My last set of needles & jets lasted maybe 5000km before giving trouble again. Fuel economy should be around 6.0 L/100km, runs at about 9+ L/100km sometimes now. So I would strongly suggest buying replacement throttle valve guides, FactoryPro emulsion tubes, and possibly new needles - unless they are spotless. This is one fix that falls into the do-it-now-and-reap-the-benefits category, despite the cost. And since you need two sets, you can save on postage! :Punk:

Read more at FactoryPro Tuning: Worn Needle Jets (http://factorypro.com/tech/needle_jet_wear.html) and Mikuni emulsion tubes / needle jets (http://factorypro.com/products/Jets,%20Mikuni,%20buy.htm#Mikuni_emulsion_tubes_/_needle_jets). Gee whizz, they quote the TDM/TRX (same carb as XTZ) as a bad example!! (The HDJ animated gifs (http://www.factorypro.com/products/Factory_Pro_HDJ_emu_hi_disp.html) are worth a look, and why I recommend their emulsion tubes.)

You can thank me later! :bleh:

[cooneyr]

El (ma bro) is trying to find out if Factory Pro does needles as well (not clear what is in their Ti kits on their web page). If they do then he will be getting needles and needle jets from them otherwise just the needle jets and new stock needles. Price of these parts seems pretty cheep really.

I hadn't read anything about the throttle valve guides wearing - better check that one out as well, makes sense.

When I finally get to go for a ride an check out what the fuel consumption is like I'll make a decision on this, but bro is defiantly into this ASAP. Thanks for the info.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Flick an email to FactoryPro, Marc is very helpful. The Ti kits are usually Ti-needle-based, but include slide springs, body screws, jets etc. The TDM kit specifically states Ti needle; it's probably the same kit.

He talks about the guides wearing on the the Mikuni page.

[El scooto]

Have been emailing JMC DYNO. A tuning place in Auckland that are the distributors in NZ. Needle jets are $35 each and they don't do needles. He suggests using stock ones. So will give this a go and probably give the valve guides a go to as it does make sense.

Cheer

PS now I just need time to do it!!

[cooneyr]

Got to go for a blat along my favorite route to work and my first solo ride in the dry today. For a heavy beast it corners well, feels way more stable than the DR ever did. This is probably helped by the fact that the shock is rather flogged out and rear is rather low and it still has the icky slicky things on.

Plenty of grin factor this morning :Punk:

Cheers R

[warewolf]

I think you need to update your avatar... :wait:

[cooneyr]

I think you need to update your avatar... :wait:

Oh yeh - need some new pictures :D

Cheers R

[426crasher]

For a heavy beast it corners well...

Mine handled fabbo on the black stuff then again it was only 2 years old,in mint nick and only 5000 miles on it when i bought it. Doe's yours only run on one cylinder for about 10 seconds when started for the first time each morning? Mine did like clockwork and no one ever managed to sort it.

[cooneyr]

Mine handled fabbo on the black stuff then again it was only 2 years old,in mint nick and only 5000 miles on it when i bought it. Doe's yours only run on one cylinder for about 10 seconds when started for the first time each morning? Mine did like clockwork and no one ever managed to sort it.

It fires up like clockwork on both cylinders. Can hiss a couple of times like gas is flowing he wrong way or something (wondering if valve clearances need checking) but only does this on start up and it runs like a dream for the short round town runs.

El's bike has started on one a couple of times but he defiantly has fuel consumption issues and the plugs were fouling to the point of the bike not starting till we replaced them. Seems that the needle jets are a week point of the bikes which defiantly affects fuel consumption and then fouls plugs which in turn muck up starting.

Did you ever replace the needle jets T?

Cheers R

[jezzaNZ]

Ryan/El I was going to put a Dynojet jet kit and add some K&N filters to the XTZ before El persauded me I should sell it. It would do the exhaust system justice and give you a 5 - 8% power increase, but not only that probably better fuel consumption and smoother acceleration.

Just a thought the TDM engine fits like a glove and would love to see someone do it in this part of the world!!!!!

PS. I put new plugs in her about 5K ago so definatly think there are fuel issues. My guess is the jets themselves, hence why I wanted to go down the Dynojet path.

[cooneyr]

Ryan/El I was going to put a Dynojet jet kit and add some K&N filters to the XTZ before El persauded me I should sell it. It would do the exhaust system justice and give you a 5 - 8% power increase, but not only that probably better fuel consumption and smoother acceleration.

Just a thought the TDM engine fits like a glove and would love to see someone do it in this part of the world!!!!!

PS. I put new plugs in her about 5K ago so definatly think there are fuel issues. My guess is the jets themselves, hence why I wanted to go down the Dynojet path.

:woohoo: I've supposedly already got Dyno jets kit, new needle jets (not the same as the main/primary jets) K&N filers and the Zorsts can. Not had a chance to do a side by side roll on against El yet though.

A TRX850 motor is suppose to be pretty nice. The ultimate is the TDM900 by the sounds of it - 105 hp (if I read right) and fuel injection with miserly fuel consumption. A TDM900 engine and some serious suspension work might = a KTM 9x0 adventure challenger. One day.......

Cheers R

[warewolf]

I would seriously recommend a FactoryPro jet kit over DynoJet any day, both from personal experience and hearsay. The DJ kits are really designed for heavily worked motors than need lotsa fuel. If you haven't gone ported head and/or bigger valves and/or big bore kit and/or wild cams, avoid DJ there are better choices. FP just seem to be that bit better and easier to tune on a standard (or nearly so) engine. For the money you also get a lot more bits and info.

There's no way I'd put K&N cotton filters on a dirt bike. I reckon I'm pushing things having one on my Triumph Trophy, given how many dirt roads it gets taken on.

The best thing on the TDM was that stonking engine, didn't realise they were an easy swap. Hmmm, DIY KTM-950 wannabe? :gob:

[cooneyr]

I would seriously recommend a FactoryPro jet kit over DynoJet any day, both from personal experience and hearsay. The DJ kits are really designed for heavily worked motors than need lotsa fuel. If you haven't gone ported head and/or bigger valves and/or big bore kit and/or wild cams, avoid DJ there are better choices. FP just seem to be that bit better and easier to tune on a standard (or nearly so) engine. For the money you also get a lot more bits and info.

There's no way I'd put K&N cotton filters on a dirt bike. I reckon I'm pushing things having one on my Triumph Trophy, given how many dirt roads it gets taken on.

The best thing on the TDM was that stonking engine, didn't realise they were an easy swap. Hmmm, DIY KTM-950 wannabe? :gob:

When I finally get time to check it out completely (strip of body work etc) the air filter will be one of the first things I have a look at. Unfortunately to get at the air filter requires tank removal, which requires side fairing panel and seat removal which requires rear side panel removal. Air filer is not easy to get at!

Unless the bike is ridiculously thirsty in that the range sucks (going to be hard with a 26l tank) I'm gonna leave the DJ kit there. It is a cheep bike compared to the KTM 9x0 and hence I've got lots of fuel money :-)

Cheers R

[warewolf]

(Our previous posts crossed over, I think.)

Not suggesting you go out and replace your DJ kit with FP, work with what you have. But I have actually done that which is one reason I recommend FP gets your hard-earned fun-vouchers over DJ.

Get Linton to re-work that suspension and you'd have something that would keep you happy for a long, long time, particularly with the TDM engine upgrade, which you could do later. I wasn't taking the piss, that was a serious suggestion! :drool:

I seem to remember stripping my TDM on the side of the road one dark wet night. Just had a service, and they'd not tightened the battery terminals enough, so one came loose. :weep: The battery sits up 'inside' the tank, next to the airbox.

[cooneyr]

(Our previous posts crossed over, I think.)

Not suggesting you go out and replace your DJ kit with FP, work with what you have. But I have actually done that which is one reason I recommend FP gets your hard-earned fun-vouchers over DJ.

Get Linton to re-work that suspension and you'd have something that would keep you happy for a long, long time, particularly with the TDM engine upgrade, which you could do later. I wasn't taking the piss, that was a serious suggestion! :drool:

I seem to remember stripping my TDM on the side of the road one dark wet night. Just had a service, and they'd not tightened the battery terminals enough, so one came loose. :weep: The battery sits up 'inside' the tank, next to the airbox.

You realise your talking to two people at once - El about the carbie and me about the rest of it? Or is it that I have a split personality? Who me yes me ????

We have the battery under the seat but the air box sounds like the same place.

Suspension work will be done. I've just ordered a Wilbers Shock. From all I've read the Ohlins are defiantly better but they require more maintenance (not saying the Wilbers shouldn't be serviced) and the Wilbers is still a huge leap forward from the stock shock. Obviously price is a factor. Got Wilbers fork springs coming as well so suspension will be set up for my weight and riding style by the end of all of this hopefully.

All I/we need to find now is a TDM or TRX 850 motor for cheep. I think I'll give this a couple of years though.

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Decided to take a half day of sanity leave yesterday. The fact that it took an evening to change the tyres doesnt count :D

Threw on the Pirelli Scorpion MX 486 front and a well worn D606 on the rear on Sat night in the hope that El Scooto would be back from Dunners by lunchtime yesterday. We managed to meet up with Transalper at 2pm in halswell and took the back roads out to Birdlings Flat then around the highway to Little River. Plan was to go up Reynolds Road and along the tops on the Bossu Road then back to Chch via the highway. We weren't sure how much snow there would be along the Bossu Road but by the time we were 3/4 of the way up Reynolds Road we already had a 25mm of snow on the road.

Most of the Bossu Road was covered in a 50mm but there was drifts in places. Most were no deeper that about a 400mm. The Tenzing and "Ed' (El's) the tenere's blew through the drifts no worries but TA had an E07's on the rear and needed a hand with a couple. I think the weight and torque made a difference as well.

The steepest uphill section had about 50mm of snow and no vehicle tracks. Was heaps of fun holding the throttle at about 3000 rpm and almost constantly spining up the rear at between walking pace and 10 or so kph. The tenere's are really stable at slow speeds and the tail waggling around was really easy to control. The torque of the twin is awesome - going from spinning at walking speeds to traction on the gravel and the engine doesn't labour or complain one bit.

We came to one area where the snow was around 500mm deep for about 10m along the road. El' got stuck right near the beginning of it, TA made it through to near the end where the drift was about 1m deep as did I. TA stamped a track through the 1m deep drift while I helped El extract Ed then with a bit of pushing all the bikes were though.

After this is was a crusy ride down to Waunui (some serious water damage to the seal in places), then back up over the hill (lots of grit), down Harmans track to little river and back to Chch via the highway. It was about 5.30 by the time we got back so we were all rather chilly. This is El's and my first decent rides on the twins were rapt - the bikes are awesome.

Tally for the day 0 offs, 1 broken speedo on Tenzing (not sure if it is cable or drives).

Pics

Bikes at top of Reynolds Road. Twin twins and a funny yellow thing
Bikes again
Looking west towards Little River
Pushing pushing
Beginning of the steep section
Last part of the steep section (with a couple of play moments :D)

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

More pics


But wait theres more snow to come
Drifts - even Tenzing couldn't bust this one
Where're through!

Cheers R

[warewolf]

We have the battery under the seat but the air box sounds like the same place.That might explain why Tenzing has 24L fuel and the TDM only 16L or some such.

[NordieBoy]

Decided to take a half day of sanity leave yesterday. The fact that it took an evening to change the tyres doesnt count :D

You got snow :D

We got a light coating of white and some re-frozen 4wd slush tracks to slide around on :(

[Transalper]

I prefer snow to refrozen 4x4 slush as i'm sure do we all.
My E07 rear was quite well worn too. It did better than I thought it might.
It's also easy to say if I had a better tyre on that I would have needed less help, but honesty I can't say that for certain.

[Transalper]

It was one of those shit it's cold on the open roads, shit it's hot, remove all extra layers while up the hill creeping about and pushing, then put all your layers back on for the home run days.
More photos............

[thepom]

Good to TA forking out for fuel instead of more expensive toy,s:2guns:eek::

[cooneyr]

Good to TA forking out for fuel instead of more expensive toy,s:2guns:eek::

If your referring to the cost of the XTZ750 vs the DR650 here's the great supprise - the XTZ can often be found for cheaper. El and I both picked up or XTZ's for individually less than the cost of my old DR. Admittedly both have 60k+ kms on the clock as opposed to 15k kms and mine needs some work but for the same price as the DR I could have a reasonably sorted XTZ. I'm chucking a bit more money than that at it cause I want to have nice rather than just sorted suspension as I plan on carrying the pillion in a million a bit.

Only catch is you need to be a bigger person or have some pretty decent skills to be able to ride one. I'm 6'2" and 110 and El is not much smaller so we sneak though on the big side of things - were still working on the skills :D

Cheers R

[clint640]

Good stuff! :yes:

How'd those MX 486's go? Any moments on wet tarmac?

Cheers
Clint

[NordieBoy]

I'm 6'2" and 110 and El is not much smaller so we sneak though on the big side of things - were still working on the skills :D

At least El isn't jumping in at the deep end and worked his way up to a 750cc dirt bike :D

[NordieBoy]

I prefer snow to refrozen 4x4 slush as i'm sure do we all.

Good to see you were keeping your tank warm too :D

[phoenixgtr]

Awesomeness :niceone:

[deanohit]

nice, those are some great photos guys!

[Transalper]

Good to TA forking out for fuel instead of more expensive toy,s:2guns:eek::


If your referring to the cost of the XTZ750 vs the DR650 here's the great supprise.....
Possibly more likely refers back to this post of mine (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1663492&postcount=14) from my pulling out of the Lake Coloridge run a couple of weeks ago.
Yep, I admit it, it was good to be out in the sun this time.

Here's one last action shot.

[Padmei]

Bikes look great - pushing in snow - now that's adventure biking

[El scooto]

At least El isn't jumping in at the deep end and worked his way up to a 750cc dirt bike :D

I've gone from an under 2kw 50cc scooter to a 75hp beast in the space of about 12 months!! Yeah I'd say I've built up to it pretty gradually! Loved the ride though, felt more stable on "Ed" (if ryan's is Tenzing then mine must be "Ed", The pretty white boy) than what I felt on the 250.

Cheer

[Frodo]

There's no way I'd put K&N cotton filters on a dirt bike. I reckon I'm pushing things having one on my Triumph Trophy, given how many dirt roads it gets taken on.


Why's that? I thought they would stop as much dust as a paper filter, or have I been misled by advertising? I fitted a K&N to my Pegaso. Not a dirt bike as such, but I like to get into gravel occasionally.

[cooneyr]

Good stuff! :yes:

How'd those MX 486's go? Any moments on wet tarmac?

Cheers
Clint

The 486 felt like rubbish for the run out to Little River (where the gravel started) being it's first 60kms. The XTZ's rail corners so this was a little strange - vague but not scary feeling. On the way home though they felt fine, guessing it was the breaking in period on the way out. I'm still getting use to the XTZ but I appear to be riding at speeds similar to what I use to do on the DR.


At least El isn't jumping in at the deep end and worked his way up to a 750cc dirt bike :D

:oi-grr: you cant tell some people. He's doing well though needs to keep his wits about him less he does a "rainbow dive".


Awesomeness :niceone:

Ya should sell that pretty green thing and get yourself a real bike :whistle:

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Why's that? I thought they would stop as much dust as a paper filter, or have I been misled by advertising? I fitted a K&N to my Pegaso. Not a dirt bike as such, but I like to get into gravel occasionally.Sounds like my Triumph Trophy. :D

K&N flow more air by flowing more everything. Even their packaging says they flow 50% more 'dust' than a normal filter, but they phrase it as "trapping only 97% vs. 98%"... you do the maths. Something along those lines anyway.

Generally if you ride in dust on something that can't take a washable foam filter, get one custom made or stick to paper replaced regularly. That's the wisdom I've read on various adventure sites, plus there are some fairly good tests published online.

[cooneyr]

As mentioned above (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=1683451&postcount=38) the speedo died on the run on Sunday. I pulled it apart yesterday and found that the tabbed washer that takes drive from the wheel to the gears was a little worse for wear. It seems that one the three tabs has been broken of for some time and the jolting must have worked it into the gears. The washer is pressed mild steel so the "flats" where it keys with the largest gear were rounded off hence the lack of drive to the speedo.

During my "lunchtime" today I got to have a play with a new toy and made a new washer. Pics tell the story

Old washer missing the 3rd tab and looking well rounded in the middle
Washer shape scribed onto a piece of old computer case steel (same thickness)
New toy :D
Outside roughly to shape (old scala penetrometer weight makes a good anvil - broke the handles of few of these during my "intership")
Finished - notice the flat sections on the inside at 4 and 11 O clock, these at the rounded bits on the original washer
Washer in place (minus circlip)

Don't know how long this will last for and the worm get is getting a little notchy but its worth a shot.

Cheers R

P.S. Took the bike for a run around town the next day and the washer works fine :D

[NordieBoy]

Shed bodges are fun :D

Is part of the "comfort" of Tenzing that it's got a good platform for standing compared to the DR?

[cooneyr]

Shed bodges are fun :D

Yes and there was no choice on this one. Only way to get the washer is as part of the complete speedo drive/wheel spacer assembly - $100s for want of a $2 part.


Is part of the "comfort" of Tenzing that it's got a good platform for standing compared to the DR?

The standing dimensions are not bad i.e. bar to peg relationship. The bars could be slightly further forward but then the bars could get a little far away when sitting (I could handle 15/20mm further forward with my long arms). The beast is wide though. Trying to lean forward when going up hill requires your legs to be rather well spread to get around the enormous tank. Easier to lean on the tank with my knees so far. I can see why they went for pannier style tanks for the KTM 9x0 adventures (apart from the lower COG reasons).

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Another XTZ750 for sale on Tardeme (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-171910533.htm) if anybody is interested.

1991, 83,500km, Asking price: $4,250, Pommy import so different colour to El's and mine.

<a href="http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-171910533.htm" target="_blank"><img src="http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/tq/37/74289237.jpg" border="0"></a>

Cheers R

[Peril]

Also found a very mint 87 Tenere if anyone is interested.Puts mine to shame really.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-171825975.htm
And sorry Ryan for highjacking your thread :)

[cooneyr]

Also found a very mint 87 Tenere if anyone is interested.Puts mine to shame really.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Dual-purpose/auction-171825975.htm
And sorry Ryan for highjacking your thread :)

No worries - but you might want to check that link. May be buy now has been hit already?

Cheers R

[Peril]

Wow,it was there like 5 mins ago!

[JATZ]

Also found a very mint 87 Tenere if anyone is interested.Puts mine to shame really.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-171825975.htm
And sorry Ryan for highjacking your thread


I'll let you giys know what it's like after Mrs Jatz rides it home from Chch this w/end

[Peril]

Also found a very mint 87 Tenere if anyone is interested.Puts mine to shame really.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Mo...-171825975.htm
And sorry Ryan for highjacking your thread


I'll let you giys know what it's like after Mrs Jatz rides it home from Chch this w/end

It didn't last long.I'm sure it wasn't on T/M yesterday,so you got it pretty quick.
Hope it's as good as it looks.

[JATZ]

It didn't last long.I'm sure it wasn't on T/M yesterday,so you got it pretty quick.
Hope it's as good as it looks.

The guy who own'd it's a mechanic, still needs running in aparently so a good run from Chch to home should do it good.
Mrs jatz has wanted one of those since they first came out

[cooneyr]

I'll let you giys know what it's like after Mrs Jatz rides it home from Chch this w/end

Congratulations, sounds like a nice bike. They seem to have a bit of a cult status in Europe. Got any picys you can put up here?

Cheers R

[JATZ]

Congratulations, sounds like a nice bike. They seem to have a bit of a cult status in Europe. Got any picys you can put up here?

Cheers R

No, no photos, cant seem to access the listing, will take some when I see it in the flesh.

BTW any body interested in an F650.

[Padmei]

Well done mrs Jatz very quick. Can't access the auction. Whats the specs colour etc?

[cooneyr]

Finally got a chance to get Tenzing naked last weekend while doing an oil change. Kinda a long way around of doing an oil change (dont need to get him naked) but wanted to have a look at the air filters and the condition of the plastics while I was at it.

Turns out that the plastics have seen better days but there is enough tabs etc still present that I'm not going to get any work done on them at this stage. Probably better to save the pennys for a new fiberglass set from pommy land when the time comes.

The air filters (yes there are a pair) are rather interesting though. Definatly has a set of K&N's as I was told but they are an interesting shape. The air passes from the "inside" to the outside i.e. all the crap collects in the inside. This will make them hard to clean and I'm not fussed on K&N's with all the dust I seem to ride in. Did a web search and nobody offers a foam filter set for the XTZ750 and aftermarket paper filters will cost about $90 for the pair - ouch.

Thinking of trying to make some foam filters or making a fitting to put pod filters on (while still inside the air box). Problem is though that most foam pod filters, especially the two stage ones, appear to be designed to flow air from the outside to the inside of the pod. I recon I can get a pair of uni filters single stage pods like below to work but will they get "sucked" to bits seeing as there is no support on the outside of the filter?

<a href="http://www.unifilter.com/online%20catalog/universal.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.unifilter.com/online%20catalog/universal%20filters/pods_lg.jpg" border="0"></a>

Another option as I see it is to make my own support cage and get some sheets of filter material to make my own filters. This should hopefully be easier to clean than the pods and if things go wrong I hopefully shouldn't end up with filter material down the throat of a carb. This is going to be a heap of mucking around though (but not too hard).

Last option is to ditch the air box altogether and just put pods directly onto to carbs but given the amount of water crossings etc I do I'm not at all keen on it as the carbs are quite low and they are down drafts near the front of the engine making water induction very very likely - see the attached pics.

Also interesting to see how low the whole engine is in the frame. There is a heap of free space above the gearbox as the air box mounts over the frame (under the tank) above the carbies. Also the bike looks small the bike looks with out the damn big and heavy tank. The tank about 3/4 full of fuel, say 19l, the weight of the steel tank itself and the tank support frame was bloody heavy to lift of and I'm not a small dude. A set of the front pannier style plastic tanks like on the Dakar bikes would be very very cool. Seems the idea was around long before KTM started putting the front pannier style tanks on the 950 dakar bikes and then 950 adventures.

Any suggestions on the air filters welcome. The air box is about 100 deep, 100 wide and 150 high.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

I recon I can get a pair of uni filters single stage pods like below to work but will they get "sucked" to bits seeing as there is no support on the outside of the filter?

The internal spring in the filters is just to hold the shape.
Shouldn't matter which way the airflow is going really.

[JATZ]

sounds like you have the same sort of setup as the DR, air goes into the centre of the air filter and passes to the outside, my new air filters are about $80, so I'm a bit better of there I suppose.
I don't know if the link is any good to you, but it's what a guy called gaspipe has had done to his bike, could be worth a look.
"edit" I'll just stick a picture in here aswell.
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58777&highlight=dr750

http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp201/ztaj/filter.jpg

[warewolf]

I thought UniFilter or someone in Aus either sells a "make your own custom filter" kit, or builds custom filters. IIRC one of the Aussie advriders had some made for his AT or TA.

If you built them yourself, you could glue the first/second stage layers "inside out" to match your bike's flow.

PS I wouldn't go to pods; airboxes do wonderful things for your bike's state of tune. Lid on/off/loose can have a dramatic effect on some bikes. Taking it away altogether is bound to be problematic.

[cooneyr]

I thought UniFilter or someone in Aus either sells a "make your own custom filter" kit, or builds custom filters. IIRC one of the Aussie advriders had some made for his AT or TA.

If you built them yourself, you could glue the first/second stage layers "inside out" to match your bike's flow.

Yep Unifilter sell sheets of the filter material -page here (http://www.unifilter.com/online%20catalog/accessories.html). Was talking to the Pit Lane guys today an they have a it in stock. The problem is that the sheets are a minimum of 3/8' (9.5mm) thick so to have two layers of the stuff (course and fine) means the internal surface area is less than the K&N to be able to fit the external dimensions of the airbox. I'm probably going to have to do one layer of the black fine foam (or red if is seems to fine) so that it flows enough air and make a point of cleaning it often.

ATGreg got a set of filters made for his RD04 XRV750 by Uni I think. Much easier to make one for the AT though as the original filter frame can be made to work with the foam filter.


PS I wouldn't go to pods; airboxes do wonderful things for your bike's state of tune. Lid on/off/loose can have a dramatic effect on some bikes. Taking it away altogether is bound to be problematic.

Defiantly not going to ditch the airbox completely for pods. I was hoping that I could get pods to fit inside the air box but after doing some measuring and drawing in AutoCAD they wont work. The largest pod that will fit has a smaller ID than the paper filter (restrictive) and is to long such that it will impair the flow out the carb inlet tubes.

After doing some measuring and drawing tonight I'm pretty certain El and I will be making our own filters and cages.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

The problem is that the sheets are a minimum of 3/8' (9.5mm) thick so to have two layers of the stuff (course and fine) means the internal surface area is less than the K&N to be able to fit the external dimensions of the airbox. I'm probably going to have to do one layer of the black fine foam (or red if is seems to fine) so that it flows enough air and make a point of cleaning it often.Filter skins inside the single stage filter to make it like a 1.5 stage??

[cooneyr]

Filter skins inside the single stage filter to make it like a 1.5 stage??

Got any info or just find some used stockings :whistle:

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Got any info or just find some used stockings :whistle:Filterskins (http://www.pcracingusa.com/filterskins.php), amongst others.

Or you could just use your old stockings. The foot section would do nicely in yours, don't you think?

[cooneyr]

Filterskins (http://www.pcracingusa.com/filterskins.php), amongst others.

Or you could just use your old stockings. The foot section would do nicely in yours, don't you think?

The foot out of my stockings will be far to large. Can you send me down the feet out of a couple of yours - they'll fit much better :baby:

Ta for the link. Going shopping at lunchtime.

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Made some filter cages and attachment plates over the weekend. Just got to finish (bit of filing, drill the mounting holes, and paint) the cages then make the foam filters and all done. Definitely not the prettiest. Obviously don't do enough manual work - all the jig sawing and filing gave me really bad arm pump. Also with a little experimenting I finally figured out how to solder with a blow torch and separate solder and flux. Can defiantly see that being a useful skill in the future.

Far more exciting though is that a large heavy parcel arrived for me this morning after I left for work :woohoo:

Bike should be breathing nicely and bouncing (in a controlled way without and clunks) this weekend. Will put up some pics tonight.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Know what you mean about the arm pump :D

It's not like you can just switch to left handed after a bit either...
If you still want straight cuts...

[El scooto]

Obviously don't do enough manual work - all the jig sawing and filing gave me really bad arm pump.

oooghh you poor boy! Now harden the f#*K up and make two more for me!!:bleh:

Thank you

[cooneyr]

oooghh you poor boy! Now harden the f#*K up and make two more for me!!:bleh:

Thank you

Says he who was swanning around all Sunday :finger: Your going to have to wait till the weekend.

Much more interesting was the parcel that arrived today. Nice shiny bits of metal including a Wilbers shock and fork springs. Got some fork oil this afternoon as well. All going well should have the the new suspension bits installed tomorrow night.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Much more interesting was the parcel that arrived today. Nice shiny bits of metal including a Wilbers shock and fork springs.

And even more importantly...
Wilbers stickers :D

[cooneyr]

And even more importantly...
Wilbers stickers :D

Gotta love the Germans - they even give you instructions on where and how to place the stickers :blink:

Forgot to mention that the with the Wilbers the XTZ now costs the same as I sold the DR for. That's a pretty good "swap" I reckon.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Wilbers stickers :Dgo-faster bling!!

Sell the stickers to Nordie to fix the front end on his XR! :first:

[NordieBoy]

go-faster bling!!

Sell the stickers to Nordie to fix the front end on his XR! :first:

I've got Eibach stickers if you think they'll help.

[warewolf]

Why only half do the job? I got some Ohlins stickers!!

Mind you, if that really worked I'd be having a Stefan Merriman sticker on my forehead...

[Crisis management]

Mind you, if that really worked I'd be having a Stefan Merriman sticker on my forehead...

Don't knock it, I've been using my "this way up" stickers for months now, haven't had a problem since I installed them.....

[cooneyr]

Don't knock it, I've been using my "this way up" stickers for months now, haven't had a problem since I installed them.....

Little experiment for you then - take them off :blink:

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Shock in and forks re oiled and re sprung. Sits much much higher on the side stand and definitely wont be prone to falling over on flat ground any more.

Hopefully the shock settles a little though cause there is no static sag at all at the moment. Don't know what the dynamic sag is yet cause I haven't put seat on pending the tank which needs the air box which needs the air filters which are still being made.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

....cause I haven't put seat on pending the tank which needs the air box which needs the air filters which are still being made.

But you've got some cool stickers to keep you occupied :D

[scracha]

That might explain why Tenzing has 24L fuel and the TDM only 16L or some such.

?? Mine took 20 litres.

[Crisis management]

Little experiment for you then - take them off :blink:

Cheers R

Just for you Ryan........I didn't fit my magic stickers to the Kaboom and now I've got nice scuffy marks on both sides! :no:

This is clear proof of the efficacy of my magic stickers, they're about to fitted to the Kaboom before I do any more damage.




(them and those TKC80 rubbery things...)

[cooneyr]

Just for you Ryan........I didn't fit my magic stickers to the Kaboom and now I've got nice scuffy marks on both sides! :no:

This is clear proof of the efficacy of my magic stickers, they're about to fitted to the Kaboom before I do any more damage.




(them and those TKC80 rubbery things...)

LOL - good one. I've put the Wilbers fork stickers on and I'm sure the suspension works better now than before. The shock change, fork oil and springs had nothing to do with it :D

Hopefully the the TKC80's will help in that slick clay CM. Looks pretty sticky i.e. fill up almost any tyre. Do the 4wd thing - spin up the tyres to clear them if you can. Easy for the rear but obviously speed is the only way for the front. Sometimes a bit more speed may actually be better for handling in mud than slow paddling - tis a little risky though.

Will try and do an update of this thread with the foam air cleaners, suspension and deserts (finally found some 17inchers) soon.

Cheers R

[JATZ]

I'd be real keen to know what you think of the Wilbers shocks.
I'm thinking of up dating the DR suspension and wilbers is about the only aftermarket shock I can get, sposed to be good though (have to be for nigh on a grand + postage.

[cooneyr]

I'd be real keen to know what you think of the Wilbers shocks.
I'm thinking of up dating the DR suspension and wilbers is about the only aftermarket shock I can get, sposed to be good though (have to be for nigh on a grand + postage.

Only done one ride so far and am happy with it but it is still settling. Was absolutely no static sag for a start off but there is just a little now. Handled corrugation really nicely so far.

I got mine through ASR suspension (http://www.asr.com.au/) (Greg Fairthorne) in Melbourne. Took 3 weeks from ordering to get to Melbourne from Germany, then two weeks to get from Melbourne to home via NZ customs :mad: (3 days to get from Melbourne to Auck). Cost of the shock with fork springs and postage was around $1200, 20% up front and rest when the shock arrives in Melbourne. Greg puts orders through to Wilbers Germany on the 10th of each month so no point in ordering till just before re your deposit. Give Greg a ring - really helpful guy.

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Must have been the anticipation but the Desert was a piece of cake to put on. In anticipation of them being difficult I finally succumbed to the idea of using soapy water/watery soap and they beaded with about 35psi. Hoping the soap doesn't cause issue later but I wont be running tyres at much less than 30psi so should be fine.

Took the rim strip/spoke strip (what is that strip called?) of to clean the rim. When putting the tools away (has the wheel on the bike) noticed I'd forgotten to put the strip on! Got to practice taking the Desert off and putting it back on gain. :mad: Going to be interesting breaking the bead out in the wops. I finally sorted out a system using a leaver and bits of 4x2 to break the bead at home.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

It's the powerband.

Or rim tape.

[jezzaNZ]

Sorry to butt in here with my 2 cents worth but I know a little about this particular topic......the Wilbers are a big improvement on the std fork springs but are still lacking a little in the rough stuff due to the "1991" technology. You can replace the forks completly with White Power 4057 series fork from an early 90's KTM for superior performance. Only drawback is you need to convert to a single disk front break, not a major cosidering the s10 has better front breaking than the 950adv I currently have.

P.S
Al hope you havent broken any more parts off the old girl?

Bring on the dusty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:2guns:

[cooneyr]

Sorry to butt in here with my 2 cents worth but I know a little about this particular topic......the Wilbers are a big improvement on the std fork springs but are still lacking a little in the rough stuff due to the "1991" technology. You can replace the forks completly with White Power 4057 series fork from an early 90's KTM for superior performance. Only drawback is you need to convert to a single disk front break, not a major cosidering the s10 has better front breaking than the 950adv I currently have.

P.S
Al hope you havent broken any more parts off the old girl?

Bring on the dusty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:2guns:

I hear you on the wilbers vs the WP forks. WR 250/450 forks up to the late 90's (I think) with the XTZ stem in the WR tripple clamps work as well. The other option is chuck Trumpy Tigger (dont do a XTZ kit but they tigger ones supposedly work very nicely) Racetec emulators in them. Just going to ride the bike some more and see how things are going in a few months. XTZ brakes are better than the KTM - I don't think I heard you right is this what your really meant?

El has finally sorted out the plastics on his XTZ and has some paint so it is looking nice and pretty again (still needs stickers) and I dont give too much of a sh1t about mine (as long as it is all there and it works).

First ride on the desert today - managed a nice power slide out of the second corner. Bit like riding on ice but it has improve significantly in the 20kms so far. Definitely a bigger profile and rolling circumference than the 130/80 17 D606. With the Wilbers settled a little bit and the extra height of the Desert I cant quite flat foot it any more.

Keen as for the DB1k as well. Gonna give it a serious nudge this year - 18ish hours.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Definitely a bigger profile and rolling circumference than the 130/80 17 D606.How worn was the D606? Losing 10mm of tread height is about a 3% drop in gearing. Going from a worn smaller tyre to a fresh bigger tyre is 5-6% increase.

That's one of the reasons I didn't like the 5.10-18. Versus the 140/80-18, when new it tolerably short-geared the bike, but as it wore it was just too much (or more accurately, too little).

[cooneyr]

How worn was the D606? Losing 10mm of tread height is about a 3% drop in gearing. Going from a worn smaller tyre to a fresh bigger tyre is 5-6% increase.

That's one of the reasons I didn't like the 5.10-18. Versus the 140/80-18, when new it tolerably short-geared the bike, but as it wore it was just too much (or more accurately, too little).

Havent had the chance to check speed vs rpm (using the bikes instruments) but at a guess there is around 20mm difference in diameter. 10mm of D606 tread and 10mm of extra casing size in the Desert. The bike is a little revy with the worn D606 on at 100kph (just getting into the 5000rpm vibration zone)

Just did the calcs. If the tyres are actually the size they say they are (which is never the case) then the Desert at new is 6.1% bigger in circumference than the worn D606 (3% compared to a new D606). This should drop the RPM back to about 4700 which is about what El XTZ is pulling at 100kph.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

You could measure the 'static' circumference; get El Scoot to push you on the bike, it will take into account sidewall flex at that pressure.

That's the recommended method for setting bicycle computers, where you adjust the circumference by 1mm.

[cooneyr]

You could measure the 'static' circumference; get El Scoot to push you on the bike, it will take into account sidewall flex at that pressure.

That's the recommended method for setting bicycle computers, where you adjust the circumference by 1mm.

Or I could just use the rev counter and the GPS :D If the revs drop back enough to be able to do an indicated (bike speedo) 110 which is about 100 on the GPS at comfortable (non vib) revs then I'm more than happy. I strongly suspect this will be the case.

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Time for some more bike porn. First couple of pics showing the effects of the suspension change. If you compare these pics with those in the first post of this thread you can see that the swing arm is on a much steeper angle and the fork covers are much more stretched out. I'm guessing (base on side stand clearance when vertical) that there is about 50mm lift as a result of the suspension.

Last couple of pics are of the tyres. The Pirelli 486 front is doing very nicely so far. Really happy with its performance both on and off road. The Desert is still very new so still taking it somewhat easy till it is scrubbed in.

You wouldn't want to be much smaller than me to ride this bike or you'd want to be skilled enough to not be concerned about not being able to put both your feet down at once.

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

Couple of people piked on the planed coffee run today so EL and I did a mission up to Lake Coleridge and back by mid day. Tried a bit of trials riding in the Harper river bed - not such a good idea. Nothing broken but clutch got a work out. Also El managed to chunk the Desert rear and I've got a couple of good slices in mine. Seems they are not that tough.

Anyway - new air filter pics below. Foam is Uni Filter foam stuck with Ados F2 contact glue. Cages are 20mm square welded chicken mesh, the plates are old 1.5mm computer cases and 3.5mm checker plate alloy, red high temp gasket goop (cause I had some in the shed) and grey closed cell foam to form a seal against the air box. Goop is to protect the green foam from the lumps of solder holding the mesh to the steel plate. After chasing El today I've ridden in enough dust to make it worth pulling the whole lot to bits to see how they are going.

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

I don't see any #8 wire in there but bonus points for using checker plate :D

[cooneyr]

I don't see any #8 wire in there but bonus points for using checker plate :D

:D Two good reasons for that. We had some in the shed and the 1.5mm computer cases flexed a bit much when tightening the filter onto the air box.

Those fellas over in the Yamaha design office would probably have a hernia if they saw these contraptions. :done:

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

Just to whet your appetite...

What is this bike...

It is a trick(ish) question :D

[Peril]

Hate to pick that monster up out the sand,being 4 cylinders and all :laugh:

[cooneyr]

Well its not the YZE850T being a 4 pot. I know they existed but I don't know what they are called. El found a site about them but I cant find it now. From memory very late 80's very early 90's yamaha road bike engine in chassis similar to the YZE. Have you got any info?

Cheers R

[NordieBoy]

FZT 920 - based on the FZ 750.

[NordieBoy]

More info here...

http://www.rallye-tenere.net/BgFZT750-900.html

[cooneyr]

Ah so it preceded the YZE's. What a bloody tank of a bike though, bet it truly deserved the title of PIG. Much easier to read when translated (http://translate.google.co.nz/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rallye-tenere.net%2FBgFZT750-900.html&sl=de&tl=en&hl=en&ie=UTF-8).

90hp from the 750 version. From what I understand the TRX850 motors can be tuned for 100+ so it is likely that the YZE850T's were putting out more ponies than the FZT750 but don't know about the FTZ920. Guessing the FZT920 was a stroked and over bored FZT750 being such an weird number and the fact that there was only 1 year between the two suggesting that development time re dropping in another motor would have been limited.

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

El Scooto was making noises about wanting to check the valve clearances on Ed but is out of town a lot so I decided to check the valve clearances on Tenzing to learn how to do it. After draining and stripping of the radiator (piece of cake) I had to remove the pipe between the head and the thermostat. Problem was that the single cap screw holding it on was well seized in place and it is somewhat recessed into the valve cover. After an initial attempt to remove and rounding it a little I soaked it with CRC for an hour or so and had another attempt. This time I managed to completely round it off. Damn.

I've got some easy outs but didnt really want to go there till last resort and as the head of he screw is so well recessed into the head there was no way of getting some viceys onto it or slotting the head. Fired up the www and found a suggestion of mashing a torx bit into the cap screw to remove it. Had one of those screw driver bit kits with 1/6 a dozen torx bits so found that they fit into a 1/4" socket and got the hammer out. Started with the 35 torx bit, bashed it in (genitally of course) and tried to turn it. It kept popping up and out - damn. Next tried a 40 torx bit, bashed it in and gave it a turn. Genitally genitally then crack - damn was that the cap screw moving or the bit popping out again. Put the bit back in and :D the bolt had moved!!!

Anyway bolt out, pipe removed and then valve cover off (not a rocket cover as there are no rockers). Whip out the crank alignment bungs, turn the crank to TDC on cylinder no 1, get out the feeler gauge and start measuring. Then do cylinder no 2. Damn of 10 valves (3 in and 2 out per cylinder) only three are withing spec. 6 are tight and 1 is loose.

Now the S10's use the bucket and shim valve adjustment system. I can see the benefits but it is also a PITA cause the cams now have to come out to get the buckets and shims out. Being the civil (not mechanical) engineer that I am I then read all I could find in the workshop manual about removing, installing and timing the cams. Book said as long as the crank is rotated to TDC put the cams in with the punch marks up (they line up with marks on the cam cap). Hmmm me things what if the crank is 360 degrees advanced from where it was when the cams were taken out, how is this going to work wrt the ignition timing and the position of the "other" cylinder. I know this isn't a problem as I could just line everything up before taking it too bits and then put it back as it was but I tend to over think things so wanted to figure this out.

Fired up the www again and found mention of bikes using a "wasted spark" concept. With the wasted spark concept the CDI is triggered (and hence spark plug fired) by the coil on the crank hence fires once every revolution. Now four strokes have to do two revs per cycle so this means that the spark plug is being fired once into fresh charge and once into exhaust gases every cycle (two revs). Nice, this means that I don't have to worry about the the spark timing. Now what about the cylinder timing wrt to the crank. Very clean screw driver down the sparkplug holes reveals that a 180 degree twin means that both cylinders are TDC (be it compression stroke or exhausting stroke) at the same time. So I don't have to worry about the other cylinder timing wrt to the cams. So in conclusion make sure the crank is at TDC then put the cams in with the punch marks up - damn wasnt that what the manual said!

In essence it seems that the Yamaha 3LD twin engine and the other 180 degree parallel twins are really just big single cylinders with a second set of cams that are 180 degrees out of phase with the first set for the second cylinder. Piece of cake to work on wrt to timing.

The worst bit of this saga has turned out to be the purchasing of new shims. I've got $108 with of metal sitting in a thimble at home. This is the new shims for both El's and my bike after mixing and matching the existing shims between the bikes. I remarked to the Don in at Pit Lane that they were the most expensive little bits of metal I've ever brought and replied "Wrong, the bits of metal in your teeth are more expensive". How true he is.

Cheers R

P.S. I'll try and put some pics of the assembly up later in the week.

[warewolf]

Just been through this very exercise with my Triumph. But fortunately I have a good relationship with my local dealer and was able to help myself to exchange the shims I needed, for a modest fee. And blagged the micrometer to measure them, in case they had worn and were no longer the thickness as marked. Which is why I pay a little more to buy stuff from them, rather than shop ex-USA.

Triumph have a tool that bolts on to the cam caps to hold the buckets down, so you can change the shims without removing the cams. :niceone:

Out of curiosity, were your inlets tight? For my 12 (3 cyl 4-valve) I had 6 tight inlets (new valves & seats bedding in) and 1 slightly loose exhaust.

I much prefer the screw & locknuts on the LC4.


And, umm, don't you mean a 360 deg twin has the cyls rise & fall together? The cams are 180 deg out of phase because they are rotating at half-speed wrt to the crank. 180 deg twins are one up, one down. ???

4-cylinder Triumphs run two coils with a wasted spark in two pairs, one pair 180 deg from the other... which I think is pretty much the common thing with inline fours?

[cooneyr]

Just been through this very exercise with my Triumph. But fortunately I have a good relationship with my local dealer and was able to help myself to exchange the shims I needed, for a modest fee. And blagged the micrometer to measure them, in case they had worn and were no longer the thickness as marked. Which is why I pay a little more to buy stuff from them, rather than shop ex-USA.

Lucky you re the exchange. I'd like to borrow a micrometer but unfortunately I don't know anybody to borrow one from. Going to have to do this the hard way - put it back together and check the clearances and go from there.


Triumph have a tool that bolts on to the cam caps to hold the buckets down, so you can change the shims without removing the cams. :niceone:

Now that's just cheating but I'm also guessing that means you don't have to remove the buckets, do have rockers, shims are on top of the buckets ??? I'm a little confused about this. In the XTZ's the cams act directly on the upside down buckets under which are the shims. So we have to remove the cams to get the buckets out to get the shims out.


Out of curiosity, were your inlets tight? For my 12 (3 cyl 4-valve) I had 6 tight inlets (new valves & seats bedding in) and 1 slightly loose exhaust.

Yep both Ed and Tenzing had tight inlets and either OK or loose exhausts. We didn't even have to remove the exhaust cam on Ed but the one loose one on Tenzing meant the exhaust cam had to come out. Interestingly the central inlet valve was super tight on both bikes. This is the valve that is central (ish) in the cylinder (imagine 4 valves spaces as normal and then one smack in the middle of the four).


I much prefer the screw & locknuts on the LC4. I agree. Needs checking more often but is a quick job to carry out. One advantage of the bucket and shim system though (well in the XTZ's 3LD motor anyway) is that there is less reciprocating parts in the head i.e. no rockers.


And, umm, don't you mean a 360 deg twin has the cyls rise & fall together? The cams are 180 deg out of phase because they are rotating at half-speed wrt to the crank. 180 deg twins are one up, one down. ???

This got me wondering as well. Apart from the cams being out by 180 degrees why are they know as 180 degree parallel twins (I'm not making this up - many on the XTZ forum refer to them as 180 degrees). The crank on the 180's is effectively a 360 (or 0) degree offset????

OK done some more reading - it seems there is lots of miss info and I've been continuing the flow of rubbish. As you said it is really a 360 degree twin (as are the TDM engines, TRX are 270 degree engines).

Cheers R

[cooneyr]

...This is the valve that is central (ish) in the cylinder (imagine 4 valves spaces as normal and then one smack in the middle of the four)....

Seems I've just added to the crap as well. Five valves spaced around the outside of the cylinder with three smaller inlets and two larger exhausts.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Now that's just cheating but I'm also guessing that means you don't have to remove the buckets, do have rockers, shims are on top of the buckets ??? I'm a little confused about this. In the XTZ's the cams act directly on the upside down buckets under which are the shims.Ah yes, the Triumph runs shim over bucket. No rockers, the cams ride on the shims, which are 25-ish mm diameter. Yours are prolly the small ones nearer the diameter of the valve stem, shim under bucket.


Yep both Ed and Tenzing had tight inlets and either OK or loose exhausts. We didn't even have to remove the exhaust cam on Ed but the one loose one on Tenzing meant the exhaust cam had to come out. Interestingly the central inlet valve was super tight on both bikes.I was told this is common; the exhaust valves are usually a tougher material to cope with the heat so wear less than the inlets. In addition, it was suggested I open the inlet clearances right up, to lessen the frequency of needing attention. Bigger clearance means more clatter and ever so marginally less power. As in go from 0.10-0.15mm (spec) to 0.20-0.25mm. It may be worth taking those central inlets a bit further out than the other two. And you prolly could have left that one loose exhaust valve alone.


This got me wondering as well.:niceone: I was drawing sine waves on my page :D mapping it out.


OK done some more reading - it seems there is lots of miss info and I've been continuing the flow of rubbish. As you said it is really a 360 degree twin (as are the TDM engines, TRX are 270 degree engines). Many years ago I had (by marriage, would never have bought one myself :puke:) a 1983 Honda CM250C:
http://100megsfree4.com/honda/h0200/cm250c-83.jpg
(Sold it to a mate who still has it buried in the back of his shed.) It had the CD250 engine in it, a 360 deg twin. Everyone "knows" they are a 180 deg twin, it was the single coil that got me making enquiries. I also had an early 360 deg TDM 850; the TRX debuted with the 270 deg crank to make it sound/feel more like the Ducati 90 deg v-twin it was otherwise trying to emulate, and I thought that configuration was later ported back to the TDM, perhaps not until they went 900cc.

[cooneyr]

Ah yes, the Triumph runs shim over bucket. No rockers, the cams ride on the shims, which are 25-ish mm diameter. Yours are prolly the small ones nearer the diameter of the valve stem, shim under bucket.

Thinks makes more sense. We have 9.48mm cams that sit on top of the valve stem (under the bucket) inside the lip of the spring retainer.


I was told this is common; the exhaust valves are usually a tougher material to cope with the heat so wear less than the inlets. In addition, it was suggested I open the inlet clearances right up, to lessen the frequency of needing attention. Bigger clearance means more clatter and ever so marginally less power. As in go from 0.10-0.15mm (spec) to 0.20-0.25mm. It may be worth taking those central inlets a bit further out than the other two. And you prolly could have left that one loose exhaust valve alone.

Hmmm - brought the shims now. Think we might put them to spec cause I suspect the head really should come of and the valves be lapped etc as necessary in the not to distance future. Besides the 3LD motor is suppose to have the valve clearances checked every 42,000kms. Ed's have been done due to the non standard size shims but I suspect that Tenzings have never been adjusted. We should be good for another 20k km's I'm guessing.



Many years ago I had (by marriage, would never have bought one myself :puke:) a 1983 Honda CM250C...... I thought that configuration was later ported back to the TDM, perhaps not until they went 900cc.

:puke: :whistle:

Seems you are right. The 900 TDM is a 270 crank.

Cheers R

[pete376403]

If your engine valve gear is similar in concept to the 5 valve FZR 700/750/1000 the shim thickness is marked on the side. Are these quite small (say 7mm diameter) with a recess that fits over the end of the valve stem?

[pete376403]

Ah yes, the Triumph runs shim over bucket. No rockers, the cams ride on the shims, which are 25-ish mm diameter. .
Same as Kawasaki Z, BMW K and Suzuki GS 2 valve motors, among others. Only disadvantage is that if you float the valves at high RPM, the shim can come out and get half over the bucket/half over the carrier. Next time the cam comes around the valve gets a lot more lift than is good for it and meets up with the piston.

Incodentally talking of price - the BMW shims are a direct replacement for Kawasaki KLR one AND are a lot cheaper(!) - (in the US, anyway)

[cooneyr]

If your engine valve gear is similar in concept to the 5 valve FZR 700/750/1000 the shim thickness is marked on the side. Are these quite small (say 7mm diameter) with a recess that fits over the end of the valve stem?

9.48mm shim diameter and the shim thickness is etched into one of the flat surfaces (top of the disk), not curved side. They are disks with no recess that fit into the valve spring retainer and sit on top of the valve stem.

Bro in law managed to borrow a micrometer from Uni so I have checked all the shims and they as specified which is nice. Hopefully there will be no issues when put back together.

Cheers R

[warewolf]

Same as Kawasaki Z, BMW K and Suzuki GS 2 valve motors, among others.Yes, have got shims at a Yamaha dealer in the past. Nothing special about the Triumph configuration at all.

[cooneyr]

Following up on putting the bike back together. We managed to get mine back together OK and El did his but it ran pretty crappy and wouldn't pull out to over 6k rpm. Talked to him about how he timed the cams and it would seem that the exhaust cam was probably one tooth behind. Stripped it down and when redoing the cam caps the torque wrench stopped working for some unknown reason. Just today I went and got a Teng Tools 1/4" drive torque wrench so we can finish off Els and recheck mine after it has done a couple of hundred kms.

Anyway some pics of my bike before I put the cams back in. You can see I have most of the buckets (and shims) back in except the left most inlet valve for cylinder 1.

The well laid forward parallel engine configuration is a pretty nice twin configuration to work on, didn't have to take the tank off and there is a reasonable amount of room between the front forks and the head. I'm guessing that a V-twin would be a bit of a pain in the arse by comparison let alone the more complex valve train timing.

Cheers R