"Faith Based" units in prisons.

[RantyDave]

In today's news, a prisoner has been bashed in a "faith based" unit of Rimutaka prison.

http://stuff.co.nz/4636640a11.html

"For prisoners to qualify to stay in the 60-bed unit, they must have a minimum-to-low-medium security status, be drug-free and willing to explore the Christian faith."

WTF? We give prisoners better conditions in return for adherence to a particular set of beliefs? How the hell did society ever get to the point where this is acceptable? What's wrong with better conditions in return for adherence to the Muslim faith? Or Baha'i? Or a particularly strong belief in the spiritual relevance of the colour turquoise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ike)? Or even Atheism?

"In summing up the judge noted RantyDave's recent move away from the Christian faith and a new dedication to a life of Atheism. Noting that a focus on the consequences of his actions from a human perspective rather than from the imaginary reactions of a deity would help him to see the error of his ways, he ordered the entire sentence to be served under home detention. With beer."

It pisses me off.

Dave

[yod]

bloody good point and I wholeheartedly agree

It pisses me off too

[The Pastor]

They have all different types of units in prison. Im not 100% sure but i think the faith based unit has one of the lowest violence stats from all the units.

I think the normal is about 3 or 5 assaults per unit per week.

I think the faith based one has less than that per year.

[Big Dave]

Your Monarch is also the Head of the Church.

[yod]

Ours?

yours too, my large friend

[Big Dave]

Ours?

yours too, my large friend

I was meaing Dave singular, but aye - and not for as long as they will be yor'n.

[yod]

I was meaing Dave singular, but aye - and not for as long as they will be yor'n.

lol even if OZ goes republic, i'm sure the church will be more than happy to include commonwealth based heathen foreigners in their flock BD, you won't get out of it that easily;)

[007XX]

That's ALWAYS been a huge pet peeves of mine...I mean WTF???

Once again, it gets me thinking about that american politician who does exactly what our gubbermint should be doing: make it tough for the bad guys.

[The Pastor]

With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about.

In prison there are 7 rules.

The guards/authority are the enemy.
never show any emotion
solve all your problems with violence
always watch your back
mind your own buissines

Ive forgotten the other two.

what happens when you live like that for 3 years, 5 years, 10 years etc. Its all you know.

You get out of prison and get $200-$300 from winz and then are left to yourself. No where to go, no house or job to get.

While I agree that a tougher stance needs to be taken on violent crime, Its not going to stop crime. A whole new system might make a difference - it wont change everyone and it will be expensive.

Long jail terms dont change or fix people.

Now you're getting angry that people who actually behave in prison, stay off drugs and try to stay away from violence are getting rewarded (very very minor reward at that)?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the prisoners who stay away from violence and drugs have a much lower rate/chance of re-offending.

[Badjelly]

Now you're getting angry that people who actually behave in prison, stay off drugs and try to stay away from violence are getting rewarded (very very minor reward at that)?

Perhaps you should read Ranty Dave's post again. What he's ranting about is this:


WTF? We give prisoners better conditions in return for adherence to a particular set of beliefs?

[Steam]

Once again, it gets me thinking about that american politician who does exactly what our gubbermint should be doing: make it tough for the bad guys.
It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals. Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.
Punishment just makes the crim harder, more violent. Come on 007, we all know our current prisons are just schools for teaching crime. They leave worse, more dangerous men than they came in.


What's wrong with better conditions in return for adherence to the Muslim faith? Or Baha'i? Or a particularly strong belief in the spiritual relevance of the colour turquoise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ike)? Or even Atheism?
In India they do Buddhist and Hindu programmes in their prisons, and they work. In NZ we do Christian ones.
I'm sure people from other faiths are welcome to work with Corrections to set up programmes, but without heaps of volunteers and effort and time, it won't happen. Christians have the resources of whole groups of churches.

[Badjelly]

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals.

Evidence?

10 char

[Ixion]

WTF? We give prisoners better conditions in return for adherence to a particular set of beliefs?

Uh. No. Actually, we give prisoners 'better conditions' for

having "a minimum-to-low-medium security status," (ie showing that they will behave and are not going to run off)
and
being drug free.

Which seem sfair enough to me
I gather the unit in question is one which attempts to inculate and foster social standards which are , manifestly, likely to lessen risk of reoffending.

There are other minimum security units for prisoners who do not want anything to do with Christianity, for whatever reason. The conditions in the other minimum security units will, by and large, be the same as the faith based one. The difference will be in the approach used to attempt to resocialise the inmates. If there were sufficient Muslim or whatever else inmates, and their churches were willing to come to the party, I have little doubt that similar units could be provided.

There is obviously a difference in conditions between a minimum security unit and a high security unit. As there should be. Any prisoner (more or less- I imagine there may be exceptions) can qualify for transfer to a minimum security unit - all they have to do is behave, be drug free etc.

I see nothing at all objectionable about any of this. Except perhaps that the prison authorities are rather too gullible , since on the face of it the prisoner in teh article should not have qualified.

[awayatc]

Those Christian faithfulls.....they ended up in prison..?
I can only guess at what they where guilty off.......

I'll be buggered....:buggerd:

So I spose that one assault or so per year is when nobody wants to play altarboy...?
:scooter:

[Badjelly]

I see nothing at all objectionable about any of this. Except perhaps that the prison authorities are rather too gullible , since on the face of it the prisoner in the article should not have qualified.

If he met the other criteria and said he was "willing to explore the Christian faith", then why not?

[007XX]

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals. Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.
Punishment just makes the crim harder, more violent. Come on 007, we all know our current prisons are just schools for teaching crime. They leave worse, more dangerous men than they came in.


Don't get me wrong, if the addition of any faith makes a jot of difference to the mentality of even one crim, then I'm more than happy to see it implemented. But to be quite honnest, I'm not holding my breath.

What pisses me of is when I hear that they have to have under floor heating as well as TVs available, because of Human rights...How is making their stay more comfortable going to amke them redeem themselves and turn over a new leaf eh?

[The Pastor]

Don't get me wrong, if the addition of any faith makes a jot of difference to the mentality of even one crim, then I'm more than happy to see it implemented. But to be quite honnest, I'm not holding my breath.

What pisses me of is when I hear that they have to have under floor heating as well as TVs available, because of Human rights...How is making their stay more comfortable going to amke them redeem themselves and turn over a new leaf eh?
go spend a night at mt eden, and tell me if you find underfloor heating and tvs

[007XX]

go spend a night at mt eden, and tell me if you find underfloor heating and tvs

You obviously speak from experience...care to share with the class?

[paturoa]

....Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.

I disagree.

It is at supposed to be about both, one being a deterant, and one being a "fix".

There is argueably (sp?) a 3rd reason and that is the state dishing out the revenge for the victims.

[Ixion]

If he met the other criteria and said he was "willing to explore the Christian faith", then why not?

The "minimum-to-low-medium security status" might perhaps be a little suspect given his willingness to bash another prisoner ?

[imdying]

What pisses me of is when I hear that they have to have under floor heatingMakes the most sense... no grates, pipes or cords to pull off and assault another inmate with. I'd be using flat screens if I were them, so I could put it under an inch of acrylic.

/edit: I'd rather pay upfront for a bomb proof installation rather than having to pay to replace whatever they break on a regular basis.

[imdying]

The "minimum-to-low-medium security status" might perhaps be a little suspect given his willingness to bash another prisoner ?To be fair, I'm not even in prison and I can think of plenty of people I'd beat the crap out of given the chance... I'd start with that wanker and his samurai sword.

[jrandom]

I'm not even in prison and I can think of plenty of people I'd beat the crap out of given the chance...

:lol:

Well, your Christianity has obviously encouraged a mild-tempered approach to life.

[Ixion]

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals. Rehabilitation, which is "supposed" to be the point of prisons. Not punishment, actually.
Punishment just makes the crim harder, more violent. Come on 007, we all know our current prisons are just schools for teaching crime. They leave worse, more dangerous men than they came in.


..

But, if prisons be ONLY about rehabilitation, then there are many incarcerated without reason. If rehabilitation be the justification, how would you deal with one of those ancient sex cases that come up from time to time. Some 80 year old geezer, sent inside for screwing a 24 year old when he was 20? 60 years ago, no offending since (let us assume); and at 80 hardly likely to be much risk in the future? hard to see how any rehabilitation is required? So should such a one be imprisoned at all, in your mind?

Note that I myself am not arguing one way or the other. I have an undecided mind on such matters.

[Badjelly]

The "minimum-to-low-medium security status" might perhaps be a little suspect given his willingness to bash another prisoner?

In hindsight, yes.

[Ixion]

True. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It is not fair to expect the authorities never to make a wrong call.

[jrandom]

Note that I myself am not arguing one way or the other. I have an undecided mind on such matters.

IMHO, the need for righteous vengeance is basic to the human psyche, and should be acknowledged by society, rather than swept under the carpet and derided (almost always by those who have never been in a situation which would prompt it) as somehow 'lessening' folk who experience it.

All questions of prevention and rehabilitation aside, victims of crime have a moral right to see the perpetrators thereof punished. Enabling that is healthy, natural, and just.

[007XX]

Makes the most sense... no grates, pipes or cords to pull off and assault another inmate with. I'd be using flat screens if I were them, so I could put it under an inch of acrylic.

/edit: I'd rather pay upfront for a bomb proof installation rather than having to pay to replace whatever they break on a regular basis.

funny you should mention flat screens...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10485081


And why would it be that the government doesn't want to let the people know how much the under floor heating costs?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0606/S00564.htm

[avgas]

yor'n.
Wasn't he in ABBA?

I'm not to fazed about the faith based units. It filters out the suicide bombers and the nuts who have samurai swords.

[Badjelly]

But seriously folks, assuming you think rehabilitation of prisoners is a good thing in some circumstances, is it, can it be, a good thing to have "faith-based" rehabilitation units? Ranty Dave doesn't like the idea and, as an atheist, I'm a wee bit uncomfortable with it myself. Steam says they work, but hasn't told us why he thinks that.

Religious people like to think that religion provides a basis (the only basis?) for morality and that religious belief makes people good. When they see religious people behaving badly, they tend to explain it away by saying the people in question don't truly believe. (For if they did, how could they behave this way?) Thus the easy assumption that religious belief = goodness is unassailable by evidence to the contrary.

Personally, I see no problem with encouraging & rewarding prisoners for good behaviour, but I don't think claiming to believe something counts as evidence of future good behaviour.

[Badjelly]

I'm not to fazed about the faith based units. It filters out the suicide bombers and the nuts who have samurai swords.

:gob: I would say that it filters them in!

[avgas]

funny you should mention flat screens...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/1/story.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10485081


And why would it be that the government doesn't want to let the people know how much the under floor heating costs?

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0606/S00564.htm
Fucking assholes are living better than me.
I swear, if i ever flip out - the prisons will be the first ones to know about it.

[imdying]

And why would it be that the government doesn't want to let the people know how much the under floor heating costs?Public are too thick to thing long term?

[imdying]

Fucking assholes are living better than me.
I swear, if i ever flip out - the prisons will be the first ones to know about it.What, you have a worse person to tv ratio than 31:1? Sux2bu :lol:

[007XX]

Fucking assholes are living better than me.
I swear, if i ever flip out - the prisons will be the first ones to know about it.

Indeed...although I doubt you'd like to become someone's bitch for it though, eh?

oh and while we're on the topic, how about having a gymnasium and 3.3mil worth of landscaping?

http://newszealand.blogspot.com/2007/05/milton-hilton-prison-opens-amid.html

Say what you like, but it does grate me big time being a law abiding citizen who has always paid her taxes and pay for these guys to build muscles and have the chance to further their education while I struggle to pay for a good education for my son :mad2:

I don't see why I should have to be made responsible for the comfort of people who supposedly don't know right from wrong. They should be paying their way through their imprisonment, full stop!

Anyway, I'll get back to earning a living to pay for this BS.

[NOMIS]

Evidence?

10 char

Me!!!!!!! Im evidence enough to my self.i knew where i was going and I knew what hapend, If crims take it seriously god does do amazing things in peoples lives

[007XX]

Public are too thick to thing long term?

in contrast to being gullible and letting themselves be ripped off for the sake of PC human rights?

[jrandom]

a gymnasium

I doubt it's quite at the standard of, say, JustWorkout in Durham Street downtown where I go to monopolise the squat rack and check out chicks' arses, etc.

Ever thought that it might be cheaper, risk and statistics wise, to put some exercise equipment in prisons so that inmates stay healthy, instead of leaving them to rot and turn to custard so that a fairly high proportion of them come out with instant excuses to go on the sickness benefit?


3.3mil worth of landscaping?

Ever thought that the landscaping might be for the benefit of everyone outside the prison?


They should be paying their way through their imprisonment, full stop!

Correct me if I'm wrong, but many prisoners do engage in work schemes, for which they are paid far less than the minimum hourly wage.

Anyway. Rather than emotive ranting, how about some international comparisons of the cost to house prisoners? Does anyone else do it significantly cheaper?

(Apart from that fellow in Nevada or wherever with the tent farm - that wouldn't quite work in the current Northland weather, would it?)

[pritch]

Long jail terms dont change or fix people.


Perhaps not but they ahve one redemming feature: They work!

After a while all the assholes are banged up inside.

[avgas]

What, you have a worse person to tv ratio than 31:1? Sux2bu :lol:
In regards to flatscreen LCD TV's and decent heating - YES

[oldrider]

It seems to have been an honest mistake. :rolleyes:

The offender opened the book (bible) in the old testament and only read about "an eye for an eye" and thought, yeah right!

He signed up immediately and became a "practicing" Christian! :Pokey: John.

[avgas]

Indeed...although I doubt you'd like to become someone's bitch for it though, eh?
Do you mean prison - or working? Nah dont have to be a bitch if i just collapse a finance co. :bye:

[yod]

It seems to have been an honest mistake. :rolleyes:

The offender opened the book (bible) in the old testament and only read about "an eye for an eye" and thought, yeah right!

He signed up immediately and became a "practicing" Christian! :Pokey: John.

lol

bunch of fekkin stoners...haha! get it? get it?

speaking of sweeping crap under the carpet, the old testament has got to be the best effort yet

[The Pastor]

Perhaps not but they ahve one redemming feature: They work!

After a while all the assholes are banged up inside.

but they are not, the only ones that don't come out are the ones that die inside.

they come out and they recommit crime straight away. Its just a matter of how long it takes for them to get caught.

[007XX]

I doubt it's quite at the standard of, say, JustWorkout in Durham Street downtown where I go to monopolise the squat rack and check out chicks' arses, etc.

Ever thought that it might be cheaper, risk and statistics wise, to put some exercise equipment in prisons so that inmates stay healthy, instead of leaving them to rot and turn to custard so that a fairly high proportion of them come out with instant excuses to go on the sickness benefit?

ppffffttt...If they were set to build roads like in the good old days or any other form of harduous worktask, then keeping fit wouldn't be an issue, now would it?



Ever thought that the landscaping might be for the benefit of everyone outside the prison?

hmmmm...yes, that would probably be a valid point, especially in areas such as Paremoremo. Maybe they should have rose bushes on top of the walls instead of barbed wires...lovely!


Correct me if I'm wrong, but many prisoners do engage in work schemes, for which they are paid far less than the minimum hourly wage.

ok...and I quote, as an example:

[Mt Eden Prison offers two main types of employment:
• internal self-sufficiency activities such as food preparation and laundry
• commercial work parties.
Prisoners are able to earn credits under the National Qualification Framework, allowing them to work towards qualifications whilst they are engaged in employment and training.

And to be fair, the Christchurch Women's Prison:

Christchurch Women's Prison offers two main types of employment:

internal self-sufficiency activities such as food preparation and laundry
industry such as sewing and ground maintenance.

Prisoners are able to earn credits under the National Qualification Framework, allowing them to work towards qualifications whist they are engaged in employment and training.


Now, that doesn't actually show me that any of the offenders are paying for the cost of their own expenditures for being fed, clothed, kept warm and being given medical attention.

This is my source of info http://www.corrections.govt.nz/utility-navigation/find-a-facility-or-site/find_a_corrections_facility.html


Anyway. Rather than emotive ranting, how about some international comparisons of the cost to house prisoners? Does anyone else do it significantly cheaper?

(Apart from that fellow in Nevada or wherever with the tent farm - that wouldn't quite work in the current Northland weather, would it?)

International comparison? Don't be silly...

You know as well as I do that to compare two things, they have to be of equal or at least extremely similar value to be conceded as comparable.
I do not have the knowledge in economics to even know which country would be the closest to NZ in demographic and criminal record to be used as a comparative statistic.

However, I found this and thought it was quite interesting as it does highlight the complexity behind the calculation of performance of a prison system.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/nij/journals/259/prison-privatization.htm

My original point though was...why do the taxpayers have to shoulder the cost of those who have turned their backs on society? I am all for rehabilitation, but I think that it has been treated too much as scheme of the "ambulance at the bottom of the cliff"

Concentrate on the young offenders, and invest more resources there, before he/she becomes a hard arse. http://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/crime+stats+show+excellent+progress

[007XX]

I doubt it's quite at the standard of, say, JustWorkout in Durham Street downtown where I go to monopolise the squat rack and check out chicks' arses, etc.
)


My point is, yeah, fuck rehabilitation, that's bollocks. I'd love to shoot the cunts myself.


Don't let them buff up in prison so they can run faster later? <_<

[RantyDave]

is it, can it be, a good thing to have "faith-based" rehabilitation units?
Yeah, we got off topic real fast. Having read through the replies a bit, I do see that - particularly given the upbringing that most prisoners will have had - that some guidance on morality is clearly necessary. And religions are nothing if not guides on morality. Retarded guides to morality, sure, but these are people who are missing out on the very very basics. I might even prefer believing in imaginary friends to some state sanctioned guide on morality which would presumably be the choice.

Anyway. Promoting Christianity. No different to promoting McDonalds.

Dave

[The Pastor]

ppffffttt...If they were set to build roads like in the good old days or any other form of harduous worktask, then keeping fit wouldn't be an issue, now would it?


Simplistic view, what happens to all the road workers, where do they get jobs after the prisoners take them all?

[007XX]

Simplistic view, what happens to all the road workers, where do they get jobs after the prisoners take them all?

Damn, you managed to make me laugh...I must be tired!

[Patrick]

With all due respect you dont know what you're talking about.

In prison there are 7 rules.

The guards/authority are the enemy.
never show any emotion
solve all your problems with violence
always watch your back
mind your own buissines

Ive forgotten the other two.

don't bend over to get the soap, and,
doesn't matter if you want to be the mama or the papa... Bubbas dick is going in your arse / mouth / whatever....


go spend a night at mt eden, and tell me if you find underfloor heating and tvs

Underfloor heating, perhaps not... but definitely ONLY one TV in EVERY room... and that was back in 1988....


... instead of leaving them to rot and turn to custard so that a fairly high proportion of them come out with instant excuses to go on the sickness benefit?

(Apart from that fellow in Nevada or wherever with the tent farm - that wouldn't quite work in the current Northland weather, would it?)

Most are sickness beneficiaries already....

As for the tent farm...... absolutely PERFECT weather for them..... make them NOT want to go back.

[Sanx]

Anyway. Promoting Christianity. No different to promoting McDonalds.

Wrong. Very wrong.

The McDonalds Corporation have far more relevance in today's world, have more morals, do less harm and pay tax.


Simplistic view, what happens to all the road workers, where do they get jobs after the prisoners take them all?

Road? Workers? NZ have people that do work on roads? Hmm ... who'd have thunk it.

[peasea]

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the prisoners who stay away from violence and drugs have a much lower rate/chance of re-offending.

If they'd done that in the first place they wouldn't be in the can.

[peasea]

[QUOTE=Sanx;1668911]Wrong. Very wrong.

The McDonalds Corporation have far more relevance in today's world, have more morals, do less harm and pay tax.

QUOTE]


Yup. Don't recall any McDonald's staff fiddling with children, mounting holy wars, plundering mountains of gold and jewels from indigenous people or torturing to death those who eat Burger King.

[Steam]

But, if prisons be ONLY about rehabilitation
You're right, they're not entirely about rehab of course, there are all those craaazy people or people too dangerous who'll never be able to be released, on Preventive Detention forever, or whatever it's called.


I disagree.
It is at supposed to be about both, one being a deterrant, and one being a "fix".
There is arguably a 3rd reason and that is the state dishing out the revenge for the victims.

I have thought about it and yes, you are right.

[The Pastor]

If they'd done that in the first place they wouldn't be in the can.

Thank you captain obvious.

[peasea]

Thank you captain obvious.

You're welcome. Sometimes the obvious needs to be pointed out to you.

[zadok]

The debate over crime and punishment has been around since the year dot and there will never be a balance that all will agree on. I believe the reason for offending is complex and subject to very many variables (peer pressure, socio economic, etc).
After having worked in the industry for over 32 years, I have made some observations, (which probably seem obvious):
There are those who have been sent to prison due to some unfortunate set of circumstances, or a 'brain fade' and won't be seen in the system again.
There are those who can't seem to keep out of trouble and keep returning. Any number of initiatives to modify their behaviour is generally unsuccessful until ultimately the 'penny drops' and they don't want to go to prison again.
Drugs are a scourge on society.

[alanzs]

I thought prisons were to keep the bad people from harming the innocent people? I thought rehabilitation went out years ago. Prison is punishment?
If faith based units work to keep them from returning to crime, more power to them. Shouldn't let them out early though. Do the crime, do the time.

[CookMySock]

how the hell does it affect YOU ? Why are you pissed off about things that don't affect you ? :weird:

Forget about other peoples irrelevant bullshit and get back to your fun project.

geez

[Badjelly]

how the hell does it affect YOU?

Is that a particular "YOU" or just YOU kiwibikers in general?

[Gubb]

how the hell does it affect YOU ? Why are you pissed off about things that don't affect you ? :weird:

Forget about other peoples irrelevant bullshit and get back to your fun project.

geez

FFS!
I know i'm on your ignore list, but that's absolute bullshit.
Tax dollars being used, criminal rehabilitation and socities issues affect EVERYONE, whether your in prison, or not.

[CookMySock]

Is that a particular "YOU" or just YOU kiwibikers in general?Itsa rhetorical question. An invitation to consider that "shit that isnt actually here, and doesnt actually affect ANYONE, can actually be such a wind-up". Dont people have anything fun to go and do ?

I dont get it.

DB

[scumdog]

I'm a tad cynical regarding the number of erstwhile evil bastards that suddenly 'find' Christianity and God while banged up in the nick.

OH, and don't forget, they ARE prisoners, in prison and mostly after a lot of offending followed by about three 'final' warning they will go to jail, I don't give a flying fuck about all the sob stories of 'easily led' 'bad associates' 'broken home' etc - the writing was on the wall, if they had stayed at school they might have been able to read it.....

IMHO Prisoner: = no rights, no luxuries and throw away the key on third jail sentence.

[Badjelly]

It's a rhetorical question. An invitation to consider that "shit that isnt actually here, and doesnt actually affect ANYONE, can actually be such a wind-up".

OK, well, just in case you missed Gubb's post:

Tax dollars being used, criminal rehabilitation and society's issues affect EVERYONE, whether you're in prison, or not.

[Badjelly]

It's a good idea, these faith-based systems do work, and actually rehabilitate criminals.


Evidence?


Me!!!!!!! Im evidence enough to my self.i knew where i was going and I knew what hapend, If crims take it seriously god does do amazing things in peoples lives.

Counter-evidence: Me. I don't believe in God and I'm a nice bloke :yes:.

But what I meant was, evidence that faith-based rehabilitation programs work.

[smoky]

I wonder if god reads kiwibiker?

I reckon she’d have a pretty quick connection – like super broadband on speed or something.
It always amazes me how so many people have such strong opinions on subjects they know next to nothing about – but I guess that’s what kiwibikers all about somedays

[CookMySock]

Tax dollars being used, criminal rehabilitation and society's issues affect EVERYONE, whether you're in prison, or not.Well, that case, we are then forced to consider the reality, cough, choke, choke, splutter, and ask the question "do the faith-based units get people out of the slammer more quickly?" If this is indeed true, and I have absolutely no idea, then on this logic would it not seem something to be glad about ? :confused:

Anyhoo, I'm getting involved, ugh, yuck. I'm gunna go fix my flat tyre.. sheesh.

DB

[Badjelly]

..."do the faith-based units get people out of the slammer more quickly?" If this is indeed true, and I have absolutely no idea...

Me neither.

[Number One]

strong opinions on subjects they know next to nothing about – but I guess that’s what kiwibikers all about somedays

YUP :yes: that's partly why I'm here!

Where else can I talk as much shit as I do on here. Where else can I just let it all hang out..well apart from the privacy of my own house that is.

It is a dangerous thing to have an opinion these days - you get shot down in flames no matter what you think (or even know).

KB is just beautiful - as I can always just ignore those that are quite rightly pointing out that I am talking through a whole in my :whistle: It's fun and I make no apologies for it...btw I am actually quite sensible in real life...honest :shutup:

[Patrick]

FFS!
I know i'm on your ignore list, but that's absolute bullshit.
Tax dollars being used, criminal rehabilitation and socities issues affect EVERYONE, whether your in prison, or not.

There ya go. DB can read it now... unless I am on his ignore list too...

[alanzs]

Itsa rhetorical question. An invitation to consider that "shit that isnt actually here, and doesnt actually affect ANYONE, can actually be such a wind-up". Dont people have anything fun to go and do ?

I dont get it.

DB

But the winding up of others is the fun part... :eek:

I think I'll go start the bike up....

[peasea]

I'm a tad cynical regarding the number of erstwhile evil bastards that suddenly 'find' Christianity and God while banged up in the nick.

OH, and don't forget, they ARE prisoners, in prison and mostly after a lot of offending followed by about three 'final' warning they will go to jail, I don't give a flying fuck about all the sob stories of 'easily led' 'bad associates' 'broken home' etc - the writing was on the wall, if they had stayed at school they might have been able to read it.....

IMHO Prisoner: = no rights, no luxuries and throw away the key on third jail sentence.


OMG, you've been taking your 'Let's Be Sensible' pills again, haven't you?

You're right; they are in there for a reason, usually (as you say) after numerous 'warnings'. It's about choice, they made one, suck it up. I came close many years ago, got the message and tidied up my act. I never want to go to prison coz I'm always dropping the soap in the shower.

It's actually pretty easy to be 'naughty' on occasion and not attract attention so what is it with these clowns? IMHO it's laziness. They don't want to work, go on the dole (too easy to get for start) then they have all day to sit about, get bored and for kicks (and/or extra cash) do burgs, do/sell drugs whatever and on goes the spiral.

If more of those jerks were BUSY they wouldn't have the time/energy to do crime after hours. Prisoners should work (and don't give me the 'rights' bullshit, they forfeit them at the gate when they go inside) and those who need the dole should also work for it.

Underfloor heating? TV's? Rip it all out, give them a blanket or two and tell them to shut the FU. First-timers might get the message then.

The Nanny State is alive and kicking.

[awayatc]

it's laziness. They don't want to work, go on the dole (too easy to get for start) then they have all day to sit about, get bored and for kicks (and/or extra cash) do burgs, do/sell drugs whatever and on goes the spiral.



It is as simple as that....!!!!!

Could somebody please explain this to the PC brigade..?

Crime has always existed, but there would be a lot less of it without all these random handouts.....

:scooter:

[Patrick]

I never want to go to prison coz I'm always dropping the soap in the shower.

You were just improving your chances of a date...